Projected Depth Chart: Eagles’ Offense

We went over the defense yesterday.

Here is the projected depth chart for the Eagles’ offense, based on what we saw during spring practices. Explanations below.

 
First Team
Second Team
Third Team
QBMichael Vick/Nick FolesMichael Vick/Nick FolesMatt Barkley
RBLeSean McCoyBryce BrownChris Polk
LTJason PetersDennis KellyEd Wang
LGEvan MathisDanny WatkinsNate Menkin
CJason KelceDallas ReynoldsMatt Tennant
RGTodd HerremansAllen BarbreMatt Kopa
RTLane JohnsonDennis KellyMatt Tobin
TEBrent CelekZach ErtzJames Casey
WRDeSean JacksonDamaris JohnsonGreg Salas
WRJeremy MaclinRiley CooperIfeanyi Momah
WRJason AvantArrelious BennRussell Shepard

Quarterback: You can view it as a cop-out, but really this is the most accurate way to rank them. Vick and Foles split first-team reps at every practice I attended. I know some people charted overall reps, but that can be a bit deceiving. For example, if a quarterback throws a 50-yard touchdown on the first play of a drill, he generally comes off. That’s only one rep, but it’s a successful one. The same thing happens if the quarterback throws an interception.

Expect Vick and Foles to continue the back-and-forth well into the preseason. Chip Kelly wants to see how each guy responds when faced with the possibility of getting crushed by an opposing defensive player. He has plenty of tape to go off of, but Kelly needs to see how each quarterback handles the new concepts he and his coaching staff have implemented.

Barkley appears to be a clear No. 3 at this point, but I’m not ready to rule anything out.

Kelly has said consistently that the competition will play itself out on the field, and the best performer will be named the starter. His track record at Oregon suggests that’s one of his core beliefs and not just lip service.

Settle in. I wouldn’t expect a winner to be announced until close to that Week 1 matchup against the Redskins.

Running back: McCoy and Brown both figure to see plenty of action in this offense.

Behind them, Polk, Felix Jones and undrafted free agent Matthew Tucker will be competing for roster spots. Polk has dropped weight from a year ago and seemed to be ahead of the other two during spring practices.

Jones provides versatility and could have a leg up if he can be effective as a returner and stay healthy.

Since the Eagles don’t have a fullback on the roster, they could potentially keep four running backs.

Wide receiver: This was a tough one. You’ll notice that the depth chart I’m using features “11″ personnel, or one running back, one tight end and three wide receivers.

Avant is a difficult player to evaluate in this scheme. He doesn’t have exceptional size or speed, but he catches anything near him and is the toughest receiver on the roster. Avant is also someone who can set an example for younger players. He’s already taken Sheppard under his wing this offseason.

Benn is not exclusively a slot receiver, even though I put him behind Avant. He was a disappointment in Tampa, but has a versatile skill set. Benn’s chance to prove himself will come in the summer when the pads are on. He’s probably the best blocker among this group.

Cooper and Johnson return from last year’s squad and will have to earn spots. Johnson improved throughout the course of his rookie season and showed the ability to make plays after the catch. He’s also in the mix as a return man. Cooper didn’t do much when given the opportunity to start last year, but he has good measurables and is only 25.

Sheppard looked good during the spring, and Momah’s size (6-foot-7) is intriguing.

This is a crowded position with players with different skill sets. We’ll find out a lot about what Kelly is looking for from his wide receivers after the roster is trimmed down to 53.

Tight end: The depth chart here is a bit misleading. By all accounts, the Eagles are expected to use a lot of two tight-end sets under Kelly. I still think Celek will play the most snaps this season, but he could be on the field with Ertz or Casey quite a bit.

Ertz missed spring practices because of the NCAA graduation rule. And Casey spent several practices on the bike, following arthroscopic knee surgery .

Left tackle/right tackle: Peters has drawn glowing reviews from coaches and teammates, and Johnson has taken over as the starting right tackle.

Kelly looks to be the favorite to be the first backup at both spots (which is why he’s listed twice). He doesn’t appear to have a lot of competition.

Left guard/right guard: Mathis missed time with an ankle injury, but returned last week. Herremans makes the switch to right guard from right tackle.

In terms of depth, Barbre and Watkins are vying for the first backup guard spot.

Center: Kelly has praised Kelce for being in the building rehabbing all offseason. The third-year center is coming off of ACL surgery, but participated in team drills for the first time last week. He’s expected to be fully cleared by training camp.

The backup spot is up for grabs. Reynolds and Tennant are both in the mix.

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  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    Sheil, I noticed you put Michael Vicks name first. Can you be any more biased? Gosh.

    Interesting that you think Avant will be the first team slot guy. I have my doubts he’ll make the team to be honest.

  • deerpathdave

    My impression is the base offensive package for the Eagles will be two Tight Ends. I think its a lock we will see alot of both Casey and Ertz. This is central to the no huddle concept that Kelly is going for to have one of these guys on the field and move them around to slot, TE or fullback depending on the defensive alignment. We didn’t see it much in OTAs because neither Casey or Ertz was practicing.

    The result of that is not alot of work for a slot receiver specialist, so the WRs will have to prove they can play outside to make the team. This doesn’t help Avant at all and I think he is at risk.

    • GEagle

      WE are going to be a shotgun 4wide team…the ONLY difference is 4wide doesn’t just mean WR, TE are in the mix as well. if Foles or Barkley win the job, I expect more 2back, 3back pistol type formations…If Vick wins the job, he will run out of the Universal formation often.

  • cliff henny

    depth chart is tough, probably need to make about 6 or 7. i doubt we see the same personnel come back out twice in a row. defenses better get it right the first time, or be ready to burn a time-out.

  • GEagle

    God bless you for even attempting to figure out the WR situation. Everytime I try and think about it, it just gives me a headache

  • deerpathdave

    While they are splitting time equally, my impression is that Foles created better tape in the OTAs. Is that a fair assessment?

    • JofreyRice

      gosh, I really wonder about that, and wonder if we’re making too much of these camp reports that provide an incomplete picture, at best. The practices that were even open to the media were kind of limited.

      I think the only independently observable fact that seems to matter is that they’re splitting time equally at this point, so the competition is still wide open. Anything else is just guess work. Vick does seem edgy in a lot of the comments–much different at this time last year when he was talking about a dynasty–but like Tim said, that could just be capriciousness on Vick’s part.

      Who knows if Vick was killing it at the practices closed to the public, or what kind of plays they were even running in those practices. Kelly’s really running a tight ship, in terms of information control. I heard the NSA is interviewing him today to figure out ways to keep things hush-hush.

      • cliff henny

        OTA’s were basically just get these two up to speed to now they can compete. saw nothing new written about vick, still has all the measurables of the charts. for foles, he’s improved. throwing tighter spriral, arm strength has improved, release is quicker, but still struggles with deep ball often. he’s getting better, that’s great. enough to beat out vick, TBD

        • JofreyRice

          Yeah, I think that could be the case. Hopefully, by the third game of the preseason, they’ll have some kind of idea as to who’s starting, so they can move forward with “the guy”. Off the top of my head, I honestly can’t think of too many situations where a prolonged QB competition has benefited the team conducting it.

          • cliff henny

            as madden said, when you have 2, you have none. alot of truth in that

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            I don’t think you’d get any arguments from anyone on this. We don’t have a guy, it’s just a matter of finding a guy to get us through this year… whether that means Barkley or a future guy drafted in 2014.

          • cliff henny

            sure i will. think it was on defense depth chart thread i posted a reply to who we’ll be picking in first round, cb or ss in ’14…and i said 3rd/4th cause 1st 2 picks will be packaged for top 10 qb (since most of the sb have been won by top 10, at least 1st rounder, can trickle into early 2nd to cover brees and i think keap will win this yr) and have little faith that 3rd/4t rounders can get us there(based solely off historical winners). people are battling that. nothing make me happier than foles becoming brady II, but that’s highly unlikely.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Training Camp is not going to be close whoever the guy is. I think they’ll know before pre-season games – though you’re still likely going to see each one in a (relatively) real game situation before you make the final call.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    I think it looks pretty good. especially upfront. skill positions look very formidable. between dangerous wrs. rbs. and tes. I like the scoring chances for our team. with a smart accurate qb of course. 6 weeks and counting. cant wait.

  • ohitsdom

    Major cop out! A lot of positions were 50-50 in minicamps, yet you projected them. Man up!

    • Sheil Kapadia

      It’s a toss-up. If they had to play a game tomorrow and were making a decision based solely on spring practices, I’d say Foles. But with very little conviction. -SK

      • ohitsdom

        Haha well done, thanks Sheil!

        • cliff henny

          your prodding just made many people’s ‘philly mag’s’ day

      • cliff henny

        you just realized that you’ve destroyed about 90% of Dutch’s media arguement. you are now a talentless hack, who’s closest experience to real football was getting sweaty towells thrown on himself in high school. sheil is now part of the vaste local philly media anti-vick conspiracy.

        • theycallmerob

          Plus, he never played in the NFL. I’m switching to Heath Evans’ blog, “What I Ate Today, and Football Stuff Too”

          • Dutch

            Those who never played Football have certain credibility problems when it comes to promoting their untested theories on matters related to football. Where could they be drawing their knowledge and experiences related to the subject?

            Sheil reports facts in his articles and allows his readers to draw their own conclusion, as any self respecting professional reporter should.

            That’s not a common approach in the Philly region in print or talk radio.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Former football player does not automatically equal success at analysing and reporting. Some of these guys are dumb as posts and it’s clear they made it on memorizing a play book and having amazing athletic ability. There are also plenty of examples of former players/coaches in the booth where the game has completely passed them by.

          • Dutch

            That doesn’t diminish the point of Writers not having played the game having credibility issues and without experiences of running a route or sacking a quarterback where could they be drawing their knowledge of the subject?

            1. memorizing a play book is a central tenant of preparedness and a task not easy to accomplish especially when you have signs of a concussion. 2. amazing athletic ability with proper coordination can be the asset that sets you apart from another talented comparable individual competing for a position.

            Point still exist those who played are more apt to have actual and legitimate knowledge derived from being in exact or similar situations they are analysing and not just spouting some wayward theory on that matter derived from second hand discussions.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            I had to break it to you Dutch, but for the most part almost all football writers are guys without football backgrounds. That does not mean they cannot break down tape and report high quality information.

            The Pro Football Hall of Fame, arguably one of the highest honours a player can receive in football outside of winning a Super Bowl, is made of a selection committee of 44 men and women from the football writing community, with a vast majority of them coming from journalism backgrounds and not football backgrounds. This doesn’t lend to your credibility issues argument whatsoever. If the players and league shared your opinion, this would be voted by their peers.

          • Dutch

            To someone that never played Football maybe that could be possible. I’ve never been impressed with anyone who’s never had the experience of being in a situation on the gridiron who criticize the efforts of a player between the white lines.

            Football as in life there is something about actual experiences that theory can not provide. Often those writers on that committee penalize eligible players for conduct unrelated to football. In recent years they have made selection to the hall a personality contest when it should be merit based.

          • knighn

            Have you ever been a professional NFL player? No? You’re not qualified to talk about other NFL players.
            Have you ever been a movie star? No? You’re not qualified to talk about movies.
            Have you ever been a paid chef? No? You’re not qualified to criticize or compliment someone’s cooking.
            Have you ever been a paid sports writer? No? You’re not qualified to talk about sports writers.
            You don’t have the experience doing it therefore you know nothing about it. Stop being a hypocrite and live by your own code. In other words: stop talking.

          • Dutch

            I am paid to write on the NFL. So far as playing, cooking and being a trash collector that’s to your wonderment what I may or may not have done.

          • knighn

            OMG. Please tell me this is true. Where is this wonderful collection of insight so that we may all come and stare in awe at your amazing writing prowess?

          • knighn

            Wait, wait! Playing and trash collecting? Is this Tony Danza? I didn’t know someone actually paid you to write about football too. Talk about your versatility!

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            Interestingly here’s a fun case of something I’ve always loved. Someone believes that because they work at something it means that they automatically have a more advanced opinion than someone who doesn’t. This I like to call the Teacher argument. We live in a society that seems to revere Teachers even though some Teachers are probably imbeciles and that we could easily do their jobs. Yet they somehow believe that they are in some way authorities because of their job title on things.

            Well remember that nurse in NJ who got paid to be a nurse and was going around killing people. Yeah I’m not paid to be a nurse and he was, but I bet I would have bone a better job.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Oh is that right? Why are you only sharing this gem with us now? Lets see those credentials Dutch.

          • theycallmerob

            Says the man on a Blog. I could just as easily say I played in the NFL.

          • Richard Colton

            Come on, just one link. I promise we’ll be nice. promise. Hell, Adam’s Canadian. He’s genetically programed to be nice.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I’m sorry:

            “Adam’s Canadian. He’s genetically programed to be nice.”

            That made me snort. lol/smh

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            The people have spoken. I’m sorry you don’t feel that way as well.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I wasn’t laughing ’cause I didn’t think it were true (and no you are probably not the nicest of Canadians ;-) ) BUT the fact that he said it. That ish was FUNNY!

          • Richard Colton

            Scientific fact – it’s a combination of fresh air, extra wide football fields, and Brian Adams ballads. You may disagree, but close your eyes and try to picture one impolite Canadian. No, Quebecois don’t count.

          • theycallmerob

            Maple syrup running through his veins, I bet.

          • Dutch

            That was a typo, it should have read I’m not paid to write on the NFL.

            However, with little doubt I’m more than qualified. I think next year I’ll produce an internet radio show and blog.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            We can decide our own qualifications now can we?

            Well great, I’m a gynaecologist now. Ladies…

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            LMAO!!!!!

            No sir. I will NOT be visiting your GYN office!

          • Richard Colton

            You say that now, but he’s the only guy who works for loonies

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            LOL.

            I can’t with ya’ll….

          • Dutch

            I hope you’re using gloves……..

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            EEEEWWWWW….

          • Richard Colton

            I, for one, would tune in.
            Looking forward to the moment when you ask Chip Kelly how long he’s been a know-nothing hack

          • Dutch

            You did read the part regarding the initial post being a typo?

            You guys are the funniest. I never realized any of you paid much attention to my post. Boy was I wrong on that.

            I’d like to meet you guys at one of the Hotel Bars over a few beers before the Games.

            I don’t believe anyone that participates here has malice intentions, just woefully misinformed.

          • knighn

            In your writer’s handbook, does “typo” = “busted”?

            We are all glad to see you admit that you are just woefully misinformed. For a while many of us thought you were trolling.

          • theycallmerob

            Hahaha, I’ll buy you a beer before the KC game if you help me remember in 3 months.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            You’re on a roll today..lol…:-)

          • cliff henny

            reminds me of ‘creed thoughts’ from the office

          • Maggie

            Interesting to find an American who knows what a loonie is.

          • eaglepete

            This argument is sort of bunk. I get that experience is def a factor in analysis and projection but it in no way is an absolute. In fact, Id say there are a larger number of non football people who are better than former players. Also, what level are we talking about here. Youre just a little better if you played some high school ball, maybe even a bit more if you played college ball. Where do you draw the line. Its similar to that tired assumption about teaching because you cant do when we all know some of the best teachers were never any good themselves at what they teach. I see a very similar flawed logic here.

          • GEagle

            How many media members in this city do you know that actually breakdown film? Didinger? Cossel? Caplan?

            Today was the 3rd time I have heard an NFL insider say that in the playoffs, the Patriots gameplan was clearly to go after Cary Williams. he was challenged a lot in that game, and it’s one of his most recent performances, so I think that’s a good game to go back and check out

          • GEagle

            I think Foles will beat out Vick!!! Care to give me your email address, and we can unmask and compare our credentials? Lol

          • Dutch

            Apparently Foles has already, we can summarize the Kid’s at least ready for the Lingerie League.

          • BrickSquadMonopoly

            Oh absolutely, but he still probably couldnt go .500

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            Or they could be hacks.

          • Richard Colton

            Dutch: “Sheil reports facts in his articles and allows his readers to draw their own conclusion, as any self respecting professional reporter should.”

            Sheil: “I’d say Foles. But with very little conviction.”

            That’s a conclusion, which reporters make all the time. Otherwise he wouldn’t be a reporter, just a recorder. I admire your tenacity Dutch. No matter how many times you’re exposed, you keep plugging away. Does anyone have a link to one of Dutch’s “professionally written” stories? You know, one that he was paid to write. I’d love to read one.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            dutch, unlike you and I. Doesn’t seem willing to put his real name on any of this,

          • Richard Colton

            that’s because his name is Lenny Dykstra. “Dude” was already taken, so he
            borrowed his friend’s nom de guerre. And yes – he is paid to write.

        • Dutch

          I said yesterday that Sheil has a unique talent in the Phila area. I don’t expect him to be caged there much longer and frankly surprised he was available to move out on this venture. This kid as an objectivity not seen in the Phila area to often. His work, in my opinion resembles a few legends who write and or wrote in the Phila region, Larry Merchant among them.

          The fact that the local sports writers mimic each other constantly has been a long standing observation. It’s not a new development and is a factor in this site, despite some recent controversy is driving to become a significant contributor on the Eagles in the region.

          Sheil is the exception in Philly not the rule, so he’s pretty much reinforced 90% of my media argument.

          • cliff henny

            nice try, no one is denying sheil’s talent. one of your newer tactics, switching point. you stated, only those with limited football iq would back foles. only those who have never played, cant evaluate talent would back foles. only local hack writers, would back foles. how do you explain that someone you seem to think highly of can see foles as an NFL starter? when your basic point is, no one who knows anything about football could every even imagine foles beating out vick. and i’m pulling for vick! is your point sheil is allowed to disagree with you cause you deem him talented enough? while everyone else who disagrees with you is still an idiot. lol, tremendous

          • Dutch

            I just echoed my exact sentiments from my post yesterday, I noticed you spliced my words and message from yesterday to fit your narrative above, there was nothing nice about your attempt. Shiel giving his opinion isn’t as you say backing anyone he’s as objective as a writer can be, you are making an assumption to believe what you want to believe not what he said.

            No, I stated, only those who NEVER played “promote” the idea Foles is a legitimate NFL Starting Quarterback in 2013.

            There is a major difference in what I said and what you’re claiming. No I am a believer in Matt Barkley and made that perfectly clear.

            Maybe you should review the discussion from yesterday if you’re going to draw on that conversation today.

          • cliff henny

            splicing what? your basic premise is…no one with any real football knowledge would ever even consider foles as a legit nfl starter. it’s a rather simple stance. since many people who veiwed the same practices as sheil have vick ahead, sheil is promoting the notion that foles can be nfl starter, he was asked his opinion…he’s seeing foles ahead. he could easily said too close to call or vick. you’ve often stated only those who know nothing about football could see foles as a viable nfl starter…well, explain how sheil does.

          • Dutch

            No, the exact premise was that no one who actually played in the nfl or college and, in a position to analysis believes Foles is a legitimate NFL Starting Quarterback capable of forcing Vick to the Bench.

            That’s not left to be interpreted it’s a pretty straight forward statement.

            If you think Sheil is promoting Foles then you believe that to suit you, I didn’t see his opinion being much of a promotion in the order of the typical hacks in the Phila media driving their opinions in their articles.

            Still my point is clear, of all the pundits and writers in Phila, only those who never played promoted the idea Foles is a Starting NFL Quarterback capable of forcing Vick to the bench.

            Please don’t mistake that to mean I am not 100% behind Matt Barkley as the Starting QB in Phila.

          • cliff henny

            cut the semantics, no one hangs on your every words. you dont think foles is nfl caliber qb, and those who see it are foolish and unknowledgable. it’s a simple stance. sheil is projecting…projecting means it’s his opinion. he is promoting the notion that foles can beat out vick. you stated that those who think that are lacking true nfl knowledge…cant have it both ways dutch. no one cares about barkley, he’s an afterthought, nice try to switch topics.

          • Dutch

            That’s maybe a fault of yours. The inability to follow the discussion.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            Have you read up on logical fallacies yet dutch? I sent you the link a few weeks ago.

          • cliff henny

            nice try dutch. it’s funny, most of your ‘other than foles’ positions i agree with. think you’ve dug yourself into a hole, and sheil’s opinion today was just another shovel full for you.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            The only relevant person in this discussion, Chip Kelly, obviously believes Nick Foles can be a legitimate NFL starting QB or else he would not be getting equal snaps as Vick. Why is this even a discussion?

          • Dutch

            Kelly was never relevant on the slanting writing and “Shared Opinions” of the Phila Media…….. Which this discussion has always been centered around.

      • Andy124

        So, what I’m hearing is, competition’s over. Foles won. It was a blowout. amiright? :)

      • Dutch

        At this point at least he’s ready for the Fairmount Park Two Hand Touch League.

  • JofreyRice

    For what it’s worth, I think PFF rates Demaris Johnson as the Eagles “Secret Superstar”.

    I like a lot of what PFF does, but I’m a little skeptical of that particular article, quite frankly. I do think Johnson could contribute, but I think the pickings were rather slim, in terms of guys that would even qualify. Damaris can force some missed tackles, but we’re not talking about a guy that’s just flying a little under the radar, we’re talking about a guy with an extremely small sample size to extrapolate anything about–19 receptions for a little over 250 yards. I’m really excited to see what he can do in his second year, but I don’t know if I’d put him in as a lock for the roster, let alone “Secret Superstar”.

    • cliff henny

      he’s another guy i’m all over the map with. liked his pre-season, wanted him to play, when he got in was effective…all good stuff. but, for his size, you’d think he’d have stupid fast top end speed, but he doesnt (just see punt return against dallas). also, would say outside that one kick return against dallas, he wasnt overly impressive as returner. plus, he wasnt all that great with ball out of back field, he’s in running for slot hyrid rb kor if kelly is bringing that along, and no reason to think he isnt, so he’s really only shown 1 out of 3. shephard might be a reach/project, but i bet he gets a long look by kelly, his upside is almost perfect for that d’anthony thomas position.

      • GEagle

        More of a crafty, quick, poor mans Welker, then a blazing Desean type.
        I am not ready to call him a secret weapon, but I do think he will have a solid pro career..It just gets tricky for us because we have a plethora of talented but different style wideouts…and the big question about what’s going to happen with Avant

        • cliff henny

          avant is like dj2 for me. any roll he has, think it would be better served for someone else. with avant, he’s 3rd and 6, gets 7 on slant. to me, that’s ertz’s ball. with dj2, if he doesnt show he can run out of backfield or return kicks, the passes he gets should be going to someone else. last year, alot of johnson catches were on quick outs, pretty much throws we’ve wanted d-jax to get for all these years, instead of runnng wind sprints for 4 quarters. admit, little bias, always liked the shephard kid, and think he’s direct competition for johnson

          • GEagle

            All things being equal, I’d take Avant over Damaris. but age complicates things..
            a lot of people have completely written off Avant already. I’m not ready to go there. the is still much that Avant can do that Chip will value:
            - Above average blocking as a WR, very important to a team that will run the ball more then 5 times a game.
            - Reliable both in terms of knowing his assignment, as well as reliable hands that consistently make clutch catches when we need them.
            -Blocking on punt returns, he basically sprung Deseans for his epic punt return
            - Wll play on the “Hands team” on ST
            - Locker room leader, mentor to young guys like Sheppard.

            yes this is a business, but Jason has always done right by us, good times and the bad…when everyone was hurt last year, Leaders like Celek were coming up SMALL, Jason was out their busting his ass for Nick Foles. TO see a veteran on a boat full of quitters, in such a disappointing season, in th middle of a 10 game losing streak, busting his ass on the field for a young QB, tells you all you ever need to know about what kind of man Jason Avant is…If he isn’t going to make this team, I really really hope they trade him to a contender. I would hate to read the headline that Jason Avant has been cut from the Eagles…For all I know, Avant could have a nice role on the 2013 Eagles, and I would love to see us find a way to bring him back…Regardless of Chips decision, I really really hope that Howie does right by Avant

          • cliff henny

            see, i think it’s avant vs ertz and johnson vs shephard. and if ertz beats out avant than avant than goes against a copper as blocker.

          • GEagle

            I don’t understand what you are trying to say Bud…You think that there is a chance Ertz doesn’t make the roster?

          • cliff henny

            sorry, no, ertz is on team…but for roll, can ertz take over that 3rd and 6 catch 7 slant. if yes, than avant than will be re-evaluated as more 4th 5th option as blocker against cooper. ertz is on team. think dj2 vs shephard, shep can be PS player, dj2 would just get cut.

          • GEagle

            gotcha…See, I don’t know if this is going to be a case of defined roles…I think it’s going to be more about grouping Packages under chip, as opposed to the typical WR depth chart we are used to seeing. I can’t even try to guess how many WR and TE we will keep. It also makes it tough because I think TE’s and WR’s will pretty much be bunched together in terms of the passing game. You got a guy like Ertz who in theory is a TE, but that dude is more WR at the moment than TE…WR/TE depth under chip is going to be one of the hardest things to project. I’m so clueless as to the WR/TE situation that I can’t even come up with an educated guess.

          • cliff henny

            avant at this point is probably more valuable off the field than on, especially with the addition of ertz. but, there’s plenty of room on a team for a locker room guy. just see any ball avant catches, should be an ertz ball. avant wont be here in ’15, that’s a given. maybe a step back this yr,but future benefits.

  • theycallmerob

    Sheil, any observations on Purcell or Quinn? Is either likely to make the roster? And yes, I realize how hard it is to judge the line players in OTAs…more in terms of reps

  • GEagle

    All you can win in OTAs is a starting spot to open up training camp. A good performance in training camp, will get you better opportunities in the preseason. Preseason is when these starting spots will be won. I don’t think we will have any answers til ATleast two preseason games are in the books

    • Maggie

      Exactly right. All the foaming at the mouth about OTA’s is ridiculous. Whether it’s the majority of sports “reporters” who are bored silly and desperate to “scoop” the others, or all of the commenters who are basing their opinions on last year’s stats.

  • Rick

    Sheil, I really expect to see Celek, Casey & Ertz on the field together a lot. Ertz in the slot and Casey at fullback. If Benn turns it around I could see him as a wide out with them along with Jackson or Macklin. That would be a large receiving core/ redzone package

  • erformc

    Wasn’t Vandevelde practicing at back up center?

    • JofreyRice

      all I know is, that 2011 draft really stunk for OL. Watkins, struggling for a roster spot, might not even end up being the biggest bust. Gabe Carimi just got shipped out of Chicago for a song…now, the Bears GM that selected him has since been fired, but…

      Really thinking about it though, now that Carimi has been kicked inside to guard, he has a shot of making a living as a starter in the NFL. I guess when you look at it, Watkins’ age, and the fact that he was never projected as anything better than a guard still makes him the biggest bust. Yeah, that’s right.

    • Dutch

      Center is a concern or should be given Kelce’s knee. He’s going to have to stonewall Nose Tackles on his own to make this zone scheme work properly and there has to be some concern with regard to his knee and how it can hold up and contribute to Kelce’s base.

      Center is a bit more complicated than the naked eye reveals. It’s not only demanding physically, but requires intellectual prowess

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Hmm…you have Avant as the first team slot game. There has been plenty of speculation on whether he makes the team – he must of impressed (as much as you can in shorts) for you to have him first.

    • Dutch

      Nothing against Avant, but Kelly and the spread attack isn’t too reliant on slot receivers. He can use a tight end in the slot if he want’s a certain look, but the area slot receivers generally exploit between the numbers is the place Tight Ends worth their salt earn their living. Notice how New England attempted to write their slot receiver from the playbook until one of those Tight Ends was injured and not able to perform at full capacity.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        Most people I’ve read agree with you. They see Avant having a really hard time making the team for the reasons you mentioned. So yeah, a bit surprised to see him listed here as a definite keeper.

        • Dutch

          Avant wants to play, but I definitely believe there’s a position in the Eagles organization for him where he can have access to players and provide influence. Similar to Harold Carmichael’s position. The cold hard fact is he’s a holdover from Reid who built his team around an entirely different theory and concept.

          Andy is adopting elements of the pistol, another spread attack concept. It’s not difficult that if Avant was waived Kansas City is going to find a place for his services if he survives waivers. He’s pretty much secure with or without the Eagles, but I’d hate to see him leave Phila.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            We could see Avant could still play when you had a QB in who could go through his progressions and get him the ball. A la Foles. Vick seems to look at the field and be like “Desean.. hmm.. no.. Maclin.. covered.. shit i better run!” It could be that his membership in the lollipop guild prevented him from making a read in the middle of the field though.

          • Dutch

            Again, not an Eagles Quarterback since Celek has been drafted could do anything to make better than he is currently or in the past. Celek was unreliable as a target to Foles, Kolb before than and McNabb when he held the job in Phila.

            Celek catches come when the play is broken down he’s not a tight end that fights for a ball in the air or capable of running routes and gaining any degree of separation from his defender.

            It’s not my opinion he’s the worse tight end in the league, that’s a common projection across the nation. His reputation is he can’t get the job down mainly because he can’t get open and fight off defenders in the meat of the defense.

            With DJax blowing the top off defense, Celek should have a rack of catches underneath.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Please show us where this projection is coming from, besides what you’ve made up in your head. Celek is regularly referred to as a 2nd tier TE. He’s finished in the top half of the league in receiving yards the past 2 season. Worst TE in the league is flat out wrong and there is no where besides your imagination that shows that projection.

          • Dutch

            I would begin my search on the common assessment of Celek at the before mentioned “Bleacher Report”.

            The Teams in the Eastern Division don’t think much of Celek that they gameplan for him, and I can’t think of a team in the Conference he breeds fear in when facing Phila either.

            he’s pretty much an easy cover and open door to the back field for a Defensive Coordinator facing the Eagles.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Bleacher Report is an amateur site where they literally let anyone who wants to post, post. They have absolute zero credibility in the sporting community.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            Yeah the writers for bleacher report are pretty much Hacks. The only thing I even use their site for is to follow tweets and breaking news. They’re the “star report” Of Football analysts and will say anything for buzz.

          • cliff henny

            ummm, everyone is a hack that doesnt agree with dutch. if they argee, than they are geniuses.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            well extraorindary claims require extraordinary evidence. Go ahead and show me the common prjections across the nation that he’s the worst TE in the league.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I haven’t seen he’s the worst tight end in the league but I have seen a lor he may not make the team (and no not bleacher report – don’t read those fools).

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Ahhh..Celek…New Orleans game – shoulda been a touchdown or at least an interference call – but it ends up an interception. Now he was interfered with but had Celelk fought for it it might not have mattered…either been an incomplete pass or a touchdown.

            Sigh. I like him I do…but sometimes…

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Um…Foles regularly had his receiver picked before he left the huddle – hence the quick release everyone lauded him for AND he had the REALLY bad habit of starting down receivers. He rarely went through progressions.

            And this why I have such a hard time with Foles backers – who really seem to be little more than anyone but Vick – if you don’t like Vick that’s one thing – there are legitimate critiques to be made there – but to try and act like Foles is some huge upgrade and can do (basic) football things so much better than Vick…he can’t..he never showed he could – outside of being Tall and having less batted down passes at the los – yeah…there’s nothing there.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            lol oh i’m just giving Dutch a hard time :)

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            lol. Fair enough. Somehow I don’t think Dutch is phased though. Man stands by his opinions – no wavering there. Love’im or Hate’im he’s consistent.

          • theycallmerob

            Consistent is a stretch…more like headstrong.

          • Dutch

            Never phased, at a point I realized this helps past the time of day until the hitting begins. These guys see the very things I see some have been convinced by the local media what they seen isn’t what they actually saw.

            Kind of like being admonished to believe, by the media writings they read and not those lying eyes.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Don’t think Ertz is football ready?

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      Didn’t see where he said that… I think it’s fair to say he’ll be used quite a bit, but with Celek’s NFL experience he will most likely get more snaps than the other guys, but it won’t be like Andy.

      • Dutch

        When given a chance, strictly in open competition, there should be no reason in a new offense that Ertz under a new regime, should not have an opportunity to take the Tight End position from Celek. If there is a reason Ertz isn’t put in a position to challenge Celek for time and standing on the team then it’s exactly like Andy.

        It’s either open competition roster wide or not at all. Ertz in my opinion has the experience of making the tough catch for 8 yards when his team needed 7 in the clutch moments with defenders draped all over him. That’s not a description that fits Celek at any point over the last 5 years.

        • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

          Never did I say that there would not be an open competition. My point for Celek getting more snaps is because I think he will initially win that open competition. I do not believe Ertz will be completely NFL ready from day 1, he’s a great prospect but I think it would benefit him more to be eased in. If he turns out to be better than Celek then he will play more, without a doubt.

          • Dutch

            I somewhat agree. I see Kelly making this position group versatile and interchangeable with the receiver corps to provide confusing looks to a defense in hopes of creating mismatches to exploit which is a central tenant of the spread attack.

            Pat Shumur legitimizes Kelly’s ideas on this level and provide a NFL passing scheme to exploit the soft portions of the zones and every so often a vertical explosion deep down field. If Kelly is allowed to stay a while in Phila he’s likely to continue upgrading the position and using is as the focal point in his passing scheme.

        • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

          Well this is abut the most made up thing I have read.

        • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

          Reasons

          1. Celek is still a good tight end I’m sorry if he doesn’t pass your “eye test”
          2. Celek is actually a capable blocked on the line, Ertz wasn’t really asked to do that in college.
          3. Ertz is a Rookie. He probably is the Tight end of the future, sure.
          4. Kelly probably will use Ertz quite a bit maybe as much as Celek. Celek still is more well rounded at this point in his career (it’s not Celeks fault Vick can’t find the tight end over the middle. Actual QB’s throw to the TE.)
          5. Kelly will most likely use several different TE groupings with Ertz Celek and Casey in the game at the same time.
          6. Do you really see Ertz as a TE you want anchoring the right side of the line on running plays? (assuming that kelly will run probably about 40-50% of the time, if not show run at least that much to bring the defense in)

          I could go on but I think you get the point.

          I think though that your whole point was based off you having your panties in a bunch that the QB competition actually is a competition. Well that’s what happens when you have a mediocre aging QB being challenged by a young player who has shown flashes as a rookie.

          Let me put it this Way. Celek is better when compared to other TE’s than Vick is compared to other QB’s.

          Also no one has said that Ertz couldn’t win the job you built that strawman yourself (google strawman argument).

          • Dutch

            Celek wasn’t a viable target with Vick or with Foles so he’s consistent at not performing when covered.

            As a Blocker, Celek is the very lowest hurdle to getting in the Eagles backfield. Actually Celek has his YAC going for him, otherwise he’s the league’s least performing Tight End and requires absolutely no planning to defend.

            At 6’4 Celek isn’t a threat over smaller Defensive Backs he faces and gives you nothing in the Red Zone as a target or additional blocker on red zone rushing attempts.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            As a Blocker “tight end X” is the very lowest hurdle. There fixed. he’s still a hurdle. I never said he was a good blocker but he’s the only TE we have I want to see blocking. Cherry picking 1 point I made to back up your argument though. Then turning it into something I didn’t say then defeating it. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/ambiguity/straw-man/

          • Dutch

            It’s not hard to be the best on the Eagles considering the Tight Ends the Eagles have suited up in the last 10 to 15 years. Same with Linebacker. It’s not difficult to come to Phila and be the best linebacker over and above what was here prior to Ryans.

            It’s not cherry picking if it’s a glaring weakness and has been over an extended period of time.What coordinators plan for the Eagles tight end, or Linebackers prior to Ryans. Those weren’t sleepless nights before playing the Eagles.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        When I said that I just meant better than Celek. Some have speculated whether Celek will make the team ( I see that as a stretch), but I was just curious since Sheil had him listed at no. 2

        • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

          Yeah, I’ve never seen anything to make me believe that Celek won’t make the team this year, but his long term future with the team is definitely up in the air.

        • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

          The hacks who write for bleacher report have been saying that about Celek and a few other sources. Hogwash. He’ll make the team and start. Celek is still a good tight end and the only one who really is a “blocking”(the best blocker of the bunch at least) tight end. Ertz is more of a mismatch Guy and Casey while listed as a TE is really going to play all over the place, specifically out of the backfield and split out wide. Celek is going to be the 3 down lined up on the line tight end.

          • Dutch

            Those “Hacks” say what they do about Celek because over the course of his time with the Eagles
            he’s traditionally been a underperforming Tight End no matter who the Quarterback was, be it McNabb, Kolb, Vick or Foles in his limited experience. He has been consistent at coming up short when he needs just a little more.

            Celek will get you 4 yards when you need 5 yards to move the chains.

            However, considering where Celek was drafted he’s down well with the Eagles, who haven’t had a threatening Tight End since Keith Jackson.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Defending the writers at Bleacher Report? That’s a new low.

          • cliff henny

            they agree with him, they’re alright, on this subject. be curious, bet at some point he crushed them when they disagreed.

          • Dutch

            you’ve misconstrued my post, I’m not a bleacher report follower nor was my post intended to defend their assumptions on Celek.

            I really have no idea what they write about Celek or any Team. But the opinion on Celek is pretty consistent in the publications dedicated to Football.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Lets see these projections, Dutch.

          • Dutch

            You should start with the publication mentioned here, bleacher report. It’s been said just in this discussion their sentiments on Celek. If you were really interested start your chase there. As I said I’m not a follower of bleacher and couldn’t tell you what they wrote on the subject of Celek, but what I read here is consistent with most reports on Celek and the Eagles tight end position.

          • eaglepete

            I agree, sure Celek will start and def be on this team but his play has declined, lost a step. This is my excellent eye test of course which is top notch, heads above everyone else posting here. I just think there were times last season he’d be open by a half step at most where in the past he was able to beat guys with some quickness, or routes. Of course this could be scheme also and QB play. That being said, Im not high on him anymore. When you compare him to the top TEs now in the league where the position itself has been elevated, hes losing ground without question. I cant wait to see Ertz take over and hopefully have that really athletic TE to make more plays.

          • Dutch

            I can show you Eagles turnover charged to both Vick and Foles that were plays to Celek where the ball bounced off his hands and into the arms of defenders, one highlight is played over and over that being the highlight against the ravens.

            Celek is useless when a defender is within 3 feet of him, he’s not going to catch the ball or worse the ball is going to bounce off his hands for a interception and it matters not who is the quarterback.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            2011 was the year of Maclin and Celek not catching damn passes when they needed too. But then Celek will make some amazing catch and I will (temporarily) forget his other short comings.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            I can show you those plays from a lot of players.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            Whenever I see Dutch use the term Eye test i think of people who believe in Ghosts and Bigfoot. “I seen it with my own two eyes.” Is not a valid form of argument. I don’t even accept that from A lot of NFL analysts. Not gonna take it from this guy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

            so now we know where Dutch writes.

  • Tim_A_H

    That’s a lot of third string Matts.

  • eaglepete

    Im as excited for the WR battles as anywhere else on the team minus QB. Cant wait to see how CK rotates them in during games. Also interested in seeing how Benn, Momah, Johnson and Shephard do. I would like someone to replace Cooper, not against the guy just not seeing much upside athletically. He does make some red zone plays but since this team has so few of those, someone has to ha

    • GEagle

      Heck, I’m just excited to find out how many WR and TE we end up keeping. I think the world of Arrelius Benn, ad can’t wait for him to put the pads on in camp. I hope Cooper realizes how much things have changed. he used to be the GIANT on our tiny WR corp..now we added plent big bodied wideouts, so he can’t count on making the team anymore just by bringing a unique skillet and body type to the WR corp. I’m excited to know that if Cooper is going to be an eagle, he will have earned it by stepping his game up, instead of always teasing us with his Big Body potential

      • Richard Colton

        I think Cooper and Benn are fighting for the same roster spot. I’m not ready to give up on Cooper, but something about Benn is intriguing

        • cliff henny

          benn looks tremendous in glimpses i’ve seen on PE.com. mean, even for nfl guy he’s stacked. think healthy, benn is lock. just question if we’re keeping te/wr ratio of 4/5 or 3/6. lot has to do in my eyes is if ertz can come right out and show if he’s ready for big stage

          • Richard Colton

            #35 pick better be able to play day 1, right? Missing the OTAs because of NCAA rules shouldn’t keep him from picking up the offense. On Benn, he’s always looked the part. His delay has always been the other stuff.

          • cliff henny

            play, yes. but relied upon takeover avant 3rd and 6 get 7 roll, might take some time. what was curry, he never saw field. you hope, but fact is good chance one or the other between ertz and logan will be a bust.

          • Richard Colton

            Curry is a tragic example – couldn’t get on the field year 1 because of Washbum, and might be a casualty of a system change in year 2. Otherwise, I’d say that a top 40 pic who can’t get on the field in year one is dangerously close to being a bust. Ertz has to see action this year. Celek and Casey aren’t world beaters – 0 probowls, so it’s not like he’s blocked by Gronk/Hernandez.

            side note – I’m pulling for Curry. I hope he cracks the D-line lineup.

          • cliff henny

            sure, was example that came to me first…we dont have a lack of top 3 round bust to choose from. ertz will see the field, but that’s different than seeing 3rd down chain moving balls. i like ertz, liked alot of TEs this year. and kelly knows how to use them. guy is in a great position to succeed.

          • Richard Colton

            So I should wait 6 months before I buy my Ertz jersey?

          • cliff henny

            really….we both know your getting c-williams and taping sconce on

          • Richard Colton

            haha. I was mad at sconce, but he’s quickly become my favorite player on D. What are the odds the Eagles do Hard Knocks? They need to mike this guy 24/7.

          • cliff henny

            you know ever 2 bit reporter is brainstorming baiting questions for him. and i hope he takes the bait everytime. that was pure gold. fox philly needs to do reality series…first episode is him walking around home depot giving interior decorating advice

          • cliff henny

            it’s scary, but go look at any teams 2-5th round picks, not just ours, because we remember everyone, but other team’s drafts 2 or 3 yrs ago and recognize more than a name or 2. go back 5 or 6, yrs maybe a guy. not for long is right. we were horrible, but not alone

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      I’m actually MORE excited about the WR battle and receivers in general than I am the QB battle. I wanting the Momah kid to work out – a 6’7 receiver? What’s not to like.

  • Damien

    I have a small feeling that Vick is cut on September 1st, Barkley will be the starter, and GJ Kinne will get the 3rd spot since he’s younger.

    QB: Barkley, Foles, Kinne
    RB: Shady, Brown, Jones
    WR: Jackson, Maclin, Sheppard, Benn, Johnson, Momah
    TE: Celek, Ertz, Casey
    LT: Peters, Wang
    LG: Mathis, Barbre
    C: Kelce, Reynolds
    RG: Herremans, Watkins
    RT: Johnson, Kelly

    • Richard Colton

      10 Offensive lineman? Is that you Andy Reid? Leaves you a little weak on special teams, unless you want Lane Johnson as the gunner on kick coverage (awsome and horrifying at the same time). Let’s lose Kinne (because you know it’s silly) and Wang (you only picked him because of his name). I’ll let you replace Kinne with Dixon, and give you one “long shot” WR. Who will it be – Momah or Sheppard?

      • xlGmanlx

        I say both and drop Johnson.

    • Ben Hert

      I’m sure Chip Kelly feels great in his first year in the league with a 4th round rookie QB starting, an unproven sophomore QB backing him up, and guy who has never even made an NFL roster. Seems legit.

  • knighn

    Ifeanyi Momah is intriguing due to his height.
    However: height isn’t everything. Just look at Ramses Barden.

    • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.stempo Stephen Stempo

      I want Momah to succeed so badly….I do not have a good feeling about it, but man I would love it if he excelled.

      • knighn

        All of us would love for the super tall guy with good speed to succeed. For a WR, that is just the beginning. He’s got to also: catch the ball well; use his height / body to beat defenders (don’t play small!); run routes well and (especially in this offense) read defenders well. One of the huge dings on Momah was that he was a “body catcher”. Instead of using his long arms to catch the ball, he had a habit of letting the ball get into his body – that would seriously negate his length. It is possible that he’s been working hard and can correct some of his bad habits.

        Even so, it’s a deep WR roster right now. The only three I see as near locks right now are DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin and Arrelious Benn. I would be shocked if Damaris Johnson didn’t make it; that guy was a productive WR/RB/PR/KR in college. So you’ve got Jason Avant, Russel Sheppard, Riley Cooper and Ifeanyi Momah fighting for one or two spots. If Cooper plays better, blocks better and can play STs better, he’ll beat out Momah. Cooper has already been a solid blocker and STs guy.

    • cliff henny

      read couple places where he’s looking really good for a guy who hasnt played in 2 yrs, but still lagging behind.

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      Or King Dunlap!

    • jtre

      In one of the few games Ramses started last year he had 9 catches for 138 yards

  • Max Lightfoot

    It would be nice to have some true depth, talent-wise, on this depth chart. And then there’s the defense’s depth chart – which outta be depth-charged. Two more drafts and then maybe. So until my Eags acquire some depth in talent, I’m just calling this a Player Chart. YMMV. Nonetheless, go Birds!

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    It was a joke my friend. Ease up.

  • cliff henny

    obviously unbiased and someone who was at every practice…oh, wait…
    vick is clearly the better athlete, not the better qb.

  • nicksaenz1

    Luckily for you the Sunday Ticket gets you many other games on Sunday, so you can follow Vick when he’s gone.

  • cliff henny

    and with even less than little conviction he sees vick, since he sees vick trailing. out of all the people in philly, who do you trust that’s closer to the eagles than sheil to give you an honest assessment of the eagles qb? writers at philly or csnphilly, or sheil. i’m going with sheil

  • bentheimmigrant

    When did you become the head coach of the Eagles? Did I miss that part? Fill in the rest yourself.

  • GEagle

    Lol….as if another team would let Vick start lol

  • Richard Colton

    Well the Pats just signed Tebow, so the path to Jacksonville is wide open