Zone Read: Eagles-Cowboys, the Day After

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Editor’s note: The Zone Read is a new weekly feature that will publish the day after every game some time before noon. It will feature dispatches from the locker room, thoughts on what went down, play breakdowns and more. If you have feedback or suggestions, e-mail Sheil at skapadia@phillymag.com.

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Jason Peters' locker at the Linc serves as a boundary of sorts.

The offensive players, beginning with Todd Herremans, are all to his left. On the other side of the green double doors that lead to the training room are the Eagles' defensive players, starting with Brandon Graham.

For the most part, during the first six weeks of the season, Peters' side of the locker room had done its part. The Eagles went into Sunday's game ranked near the top in most offensive categories. But against the Cowboys, the results were ugly. On 14 offensive possessions, they turned it over three times, punted on nine occasions, made one field goal and missed another.

All in all, it was easily the worst performance on that side of the ball all season.

"It was tough, man. Very disappointed," said Peters, whose body language reflected his words. "I know to come out here, we haven't even won a game at home, this is disappointing for the fans and disappointing for the team. Just a bad deal all the way around."

When asked why the offense sputtered, Peters didn't have answers. Sometimes, coaches and players say they need to watch the film because they want to avoid a question. But most of the time, it's because that's the truth - especially for a left tackle. Line up, execute the assignment, figure out where the line of scrimmage is, and do it again. That's the routine for Peters when the Eagles possess the ball.

"I don't know," Peters said, when asked about Nick Foles' struggles in the passing game. "I'm just blocking my guy. I don't look down the field and see Foles' throws. All I know when I look up, it's an incompletion or a completion and I run down and get on the ball, so I don't know."

And the run game?

"I couldn't tell you," Peters said. "I just gotta go back and watch the film. All I do when the play is called is try to take care of my assignment. I don't know what's goin' on out there.

"You go to the sideline and look at the picture, but the picture don't tell it all. …Maybe we weren't getting to the second level fast enough, the backers were scraping. A couple times I kind of felt like they were doing that. But I wasn't sure. I'm man blocking all the time so I couldn't really tell. You go to the sideline and look at the pictures. It looks like it's a hole, but you can't really tell."

The Eagles' offensive players expect to be successful each week, regardless of the opponent. It's been that way really since the preseason. They've started the same five offensive linemen every game. They went into Sunday with the league leaders in rushing yards and receiving yards (for a wide receiver). And they have a coach who has built his reputation on creating problems for opposing defenses.

So when the offense averages just 3.7 yards per play and fails to score a single touchdown, the players have a difficult time figuring out what went wrong.

"Very surprised, cause their defense is solid, but we've faced better defenses than that this year," Peters said. "It was just surprising for me that we only put up three points. I'm just disappointed right now."

***

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN...

1. Why Chip Kelly sent Alex Henery out for a 60-yd. FG at the end of the first half?

The offense faced a 4th-and-1 from the Dallas 42 with 14 seconds left in the second quarter. Kelly had three options: go-for-it, punt or attempt the 60-yarder. He chose the third choice, and Henery missed, giving the Cowboys' offense the ball at midfield with nine seconds left and one timeout remaining.

"Alex Henery hit it really well in warm‑ups," Kelly said. "I asked [special teams coach Dave] Fipp what he thought, and he thought he was hitting the ball extremely well. We had the wind at our back and that was a 3‑0 ballgame. Just trying to get a score and see what we can do at that point in time."

Henery has made one field goal of 50 yards or more in his career, and that was back on Christmas Eve of 2011 when he was a rookie. The coaching staff's confidence in him appears to be a bit misguided at this point. The miss gave the Cowboys' offense a chance to complete one pass and then kick a field goal of their own. Fortunately for the Eagles, the defense came up with a stop.

There really should have only been two options for Kelly there. If you want to gamble, go for it, pick up some extra yardage and give yourself a realistic chance to get the three points. Worst-case scenario is what ended up happening anyway: You get stuffed and give the Cowboys the ball near midfield.

If you want to play it safe, punt, and go into halftime down 3-0. But attempting the 60-yarder seems like the option most likely to produce an unfavorable outcome.

2. Why the Eagles can't find Bryce Brown footwear that keeps him upright?

With 9:40 left in the first quarter, Brown took the handoff from Foles, saw a gaping hole between Evan Mathis and Jason Peters, approached the line of scrimmage and tumbled to the ground.

"Did he get shot?" quipped one author of Birds 24/7 whose name is not Sheil Kapadia.

This seems to happen on a weekly basis for Brown. Untouched, he slips and falls to the ground on what looks like it could be a decent play. Maybe it's a footwork thing. But if it's a footwear thing, the Eagles need to figure out what the deal is.

***

THE NO-22

We don't get the coaches film until later in the week, but FOX's cameras showed us several replays of one of the game's most critical plays: Foles' misfire to Jason Avant in the end zone after the DeMeco Ryans interception in the third quarter.

Here's the pre-snap look. The Cowboys are playing man-free coverage. They have one deep safety and are man-to-man across the board. Dallas has 10 of 11 players within 4 yards of the line of scrimmage.

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With this look, the Cowboys are well-equipped to stop the run and are challenging Eagles receivers to beat them one-on-one. Take note that this is the play DeSean Jackson missed after he suffered an ankle injury.

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Avant is lined up in the slot against the Cowboys' best cornerback, Brandon Carr. He runs up the seam to the 7-yard-line. Carr is trailing him.

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But Avant flips his head and hips and runs a corner route. He does a brilliant job of getting open and loses Carr. The safety (yellow box) is in no position to help.

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You just don't see that kind of open space for a wide receiver in the end zone. Avant has the entire area from the hash marks to the sideline to himself.

Foles got out of the pocket and moved to his left, creating plenty of space with which to make a clean throw, but he underthrew Avant, who couldn't make the sliding catch.

"I beat my guy," Avant said. "I saw the ball was thrown low, so I did my best to run to it and get to it. I tried to pop it up to myself because I saw it was going to hit the ground. So I was trying to get my hands underneath and bring it up to myself in order to have a chance to catch it. It kind of got to the ground. I got my back hand under it, but the nose hit the ground. Maybe if it had gotten the front of the ball, I could have scooped it up."

The officials initially ruled the play an interception, but then reversed the call and said it was just incomplete. Still, a giant missed opportunity by Foles. A score there would have trimmed the Cowboys' lead to 10-7. Instead, the Eagles settled for a field goal, and Foles ended up taking a sack and getting knocked out of the game with a head injury.

***

FIGURING OUT CHIP

I was curious what Kelly was like during and after this game. The man takes pride in his offense, so when it doesn't work, how does he react?

"I'm sure he probably was," Jason Kelce said, when asked if the head coach was frustrated. "Anybody that's competitive, if you're not moving the ball, especially he's an offensive coach, yeah you're gonna be really frustrated. He does what he needs to do though. When he's in front of the team, he's energetic, trying to get guys going, trying to pick people back up. That's the biggest thing that you can't do is [not] get your head down and let the frustration affect how you're playing on the field.

"If you're giving poor effort, you're blatantly not doing your assignment or mental errors, things like that, that's when he's gonna get mad. But if you're just not getting the job done, it's a thing here or there, he's not gonna get mad. He's just gonna be trying to pick you up, keep plugging along, keep going, keep going. I think that's the way you need to be."

Peters offered a similar assessment.

"He's always positive," Peters said. "He's always calling plays and on his horse, happy-go-lucky. He never gets down. And he always keeps a positive attitude. So we always think we can come back until the clock reads zero. We never thought we were going to lose until the fourth quarter and two scores down with two minutes left. And then it was setting in. But we're gonna fight until the end."

***

THE NUMBER THAT MATTERS: 2.76

That was Foles' average yards per pass attempt against the Cowboys. It's the worst mark this season by any NFL quarterback who threw at least 10 passes in a game. If you extend it back and include all of 2012, only one quarterback has posted a lower number in a single game. Ryan Lindley (Cardinals) went 10-for-31 for 72 yards against the Jets, averaging 2.32 yards per attempt last season.

***

GAME BALL OFFENSE: NOBODY

Granted, this section was originally meant to award a game ball to one offensive player whose performance stood out. But since this the first edition of the Zone Read, I'm invoking a special exception: When the offense fails to reach double-digits on the scoreboard, nobody gets a game ball.

GAME BALL DEFENSE: DEMECO RYANS

Coming off a game in which he notched 12 solo tackles against the Bucs and was a big part of the Eagles' success in limiting Doug Martin, Ryans came up with a sack and an interception against the Cowboys. The takeaway could have proven to be huge. The Eagles were in man coverage. At first, it looked like running back Phillip Tanner was staying in to block, so Ryans began rushing the quarterback.

But Tanner ended up leaking out into his route. Ryans followed him and came away with the pick. That gave the offense the ball at the Cowboys' 30 with 2:46 left in the third. But the Eagles could only muster a field goal on their ensuing drive.

As for Ryans, he also stuffed an early 3rd-and-1 run, forcing the Cowboys to punt. He came into the game with 25 more tackles than other Eagles defender (per coaches stats) and led the team once again with nine tackles (seven solo).

***

THAT'S WHAT HE SAID...

"We just didn't finish any drives. We didn't execute at all. We just didn't play well. Myself, I think that this was one of my worst performances since being a rookie. We have to get better." - LeSean McCoy

The Eagles' running back averaged 3.1  yards per carry (18 rushes for 55 yards). After the game, he wasn't blaming Foles or his offensive line or the coaching staff. And the sense I get is that McCoy's self-criticism is not an act for the media. Jason Kelce told me after the Giants game a couple weeks ago that McCoy was hard on himself then too even though the blocking was primarily to blame.

As for the lack of success on the ground vs. Dallas, there didn't seem to be any strategic maneuver that gave the Cowboys an edge. Players and coaches basically just said Dallas got the better of one-on-one matchups.

"We ran a lot of power, ran a lot of sweeps," Kelly said. "Go through the amount of plays we ran, we really didn't run a ton of zone read at all. So I think running power plays and sweep plays, it's just executing your blocks, staying on your blocks and finish things, and we didn't do that."

Added Kelce:  "I can't really give you a reason right now why the running game struggled. We're gonna have to go back and watch it on film. But it felt like just one or two blocks here or there, it's a bigger play. The safety came down, made a couple of really good tackles, it felt like. Cause usually LeSean on a safety is a missed tackle for the most part. And I felt like he came down and made some good plays. I think it got better as the game went on, but as the game went on, you're hesitant more and more to call those running plays, especially when you start getting down points. Just not a good day for run blocking."

FIVE RANDOM THOUGHTS

1. If he's healthy, Michael Vick starts Sunday vs. the Giants. The argument for Foles is that the Eagles should at least find out what they have. But Kelly (and most coaches) are not wired that way. They spend countless hours watching film, game-planning and practicing. Sundays are not meant for experimentation. By doing that, you risk frustrating the other players on the field, you send the wrong message, and you make it more difficult to get your system in place. Vick won the job in the summer. If Foles played so well that he outright stole it, that'd be one thing. But that's not what happened. At 3-4 and one game out of first place, the guess here is that Kelly goes back to Vick.

2. You'll hear plenty of talk in the next 48 hours about Monte Kiffin solving Kelly's offense now that the two are no longer in college. That seems a bit far-fetched from this perspective. In terms of game-plan, Kiffin did what most teams do against the Eagles: play a lot of man coverage and challenge the Birds to win one-on-one in the passing game. The difference Sunday was that the receivers did win their fair share of battles. The QB just had a horrible game and couldn't effectively deliver the ball. The coach always deserves some criticism (see above) after losses, and I don't want to come off as an apologist, but the Kiffin/Kelly thing seems like a bit of a manufactured storyline.

3. The defense should feel pretty good about itself today. Billy Davis' unit kept the Eagles in the game, pressured Tony Romo and limited him to 59.6 percent completions (a season-low) to go along with a 69.2 QB rating (also a season-low). Going into the game, I was expecting Romo's performance to resemble what we saw from Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning earlier this season against the Eagles. But the defense had a solid day.

"I think some of the pass coverage stuff, yeah," Davis said, when asked if he saw progress. "We're getting better and better at the concepts of the coverages and the techniques, and again I think our corners are playing at a pretty high level right now. Safeties are starting to be good quarterbacks back there and getting us lined up better than we were earlier in the season. I think DeMeco's a great inside influence on us, getting us in the right defense and really communicating and keeping everybody calm. So I think we took a step forward, but we didn't play good enough to win."

4. The person whose job it is to pick out the "scenery" shots during an NFL broadcast needs to get a little more creative.

The game's in Philadelphia? Cue up the cheesesteak footage! What's that? We've shown that for every home Eagles since 1970? Ahh, no worries. If it ain't broke...!

Please, for once, I'm begging you to switch it up, Mr. or Mrs. TV Production Person. It's a big city. I'm sure you can come up with something.

5. One of the advantages of sitting in the press box is you get to see what's happening on the sideline during the game. On an NFL team, the specialists (long-snapper, punter, kicker) often have to come up with their own ways to kill time. That means staying fresh and prepared for when they have to go onto the field. At one point, Jon Dorenbos stood a few yards away from punter Donnie Jones and tossed him the ball. Jones would catch it and drop it. Then they would to it again, over and over during a timeout on the field. Meanwhile, within 10 feet of them, Eagles cheerleaders went through their in-game routine. And by routine, I mean a series of gyrations that would make Miley Cyrus blush. For some reason, this juxtaposition fascinated me. If Dorenbos is off-target with a snap or Jones shanks a punt in the future, remind me to revisit this storyline.

***

SETTING THE LINE: EAGLES (-6)

Each week, we'll take a shot at guessing the line for the Eagles' next game. This one is a bit tricky since the Giants play tonight and we don't know the status of the Birds' quarterbacks, but we're not in the business of making excuses here at Birds 24/7. So we'll set it at Eagles (-6). Kelly's squad was 3-point favorites against the Cowboys, the Giants will enter the game either at 0-7 or 1-6. Plus, the Eagles just beat them by 15 a couple weeks ago.

Of course, given the way the Eagles have played at the Linc (nine straight losses), lines-makers may want to start docking them three points when they're at home.

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  • Token

    Man, just seeing that defense played against us….. its frustrating. Just look at that picture. Thats what you want to see folks. Gotta be able to beat that defense.

    Chip will have to figure it out quick. Teams are just manning up everywhere, bringing in that safety to the box to help stop the run/keep QB under control. Then we are dead in the water. If thats what stops this offense than we are done. Chip has to figure it out. Obviously youd want a beast WR out there. But theres no excuse to not be able to come up with something to take advantage of that look.

    The line had all they could handle from a group of mostly guys who werent in the league last year. Not sure how they can keep playing Todd all year. What is gained? RG obviously needs addressed regardless. Time to see if Barbre can do the job.

    • Nah__Roots

      Yeah. You’re in full-blown denial. I expected a regression, but Foles was straight up awful. There’s no sugar coating this one. Vick had some bad games, but not this bad. 3 pts? A Chip Kelly offense only scores 3 pts? The switch was in the off position for Nick all game long. Not only was he missing throws, but he was not seeing guys WIDE open. The misfire to Avant? Everyone in the stadium saw 6 points right there and he choked. By the end of the 3rd quarter, he had so little confidence he was scared to even pull the trigger. He straight up did not know what to do with the ball. He ran towards the side line and just stopped, allowing himself to get popped.

      • CMI82

        Look, Nick Foles was straight up awful on Sunday. There’s no way around that – he had a bad game. But as is usually the case in this city, we are falling back on way too much hyperbole. Let’s not forget that Nick Foles has only started eight games in his NFL career. He’s a rookie when it comes to game experience – yet we don’t afford him the same tolerance for rookie mistakes or letdowns.

        In addition, not everything is a referendum on Vick versus Foles. Foles played better than Vick against the Giants. Foles played as well, if not better, than Vick has played all year against Tampa. He threw up a clunker yesterday. Vick has had his fair share of clunkers in his day. The point is: one game does not a quarterback make. This was not the single game that proved all the Foles supporters wrong and all the Vick supporters right. The same would have been the case had Foles lit up the Cowboys. The truth is: we are right where we started – without a clear idea of who the quarterback of the future is for this team.

        • ztom6

          Same goes double for Barkley. He threw 3 or 4 picks, so what. It was his first time playing against live bullets. He actually looked better than I expected throwing the ball.

        • cliff henny

          foles picked a bad time to put up clunker, cowboys at home, 1st place on the line. hard not to let the fustrations take over after such an awful performance.

          • CMI82

            I don’t disagree. He picked a bad time to put up the worst game of his young NFL career. That’s compounded by the fact that it was against the hated Cowboys and for first place in the NFC East. All of that said, this is a deeply flawed team right now that is not ready to complete for a Super Bowl. The long-term view is far more important at this stage than small, Sunday victories. Do we want to see progress? Yes. Was yesterday a step backward? Absolutely. But the problem is that we often overreact to single-game performances. Nick Foles isn’t as bad as he showed yesterday. He’s probably not as good as he showed against Tampa. The point is we don’t have enough information yet to know for sure what he is.

        • Richard Colton

          Excellent point. It’s an emotional town. We had him in Canton after TB, and on the scrap heap after yesterday. Every year we get a clunker that looks like what we saw in Dallas. Was the real Nick Foles the guy we saw on the 20th or the 13th? I’m not ready to say for sure, but, man…he looked terrible.

        • aub32

          My question is how many passes does Foles get. He has proven once again to have the same struggles many said he had. Is he the worst QB ever? No. However, the fact remains he’s only looked good against really bad teams. He also didn’t outplay Vick against the Giants. The defense put him in amazing spots and that skewed the fans perspective. That’s not so much support of Vick (though I see how it can come off) as it is a knock of Foles. He’s really good against zones, but he is also limited.

    • JettMartinez

      I put the failures in the passing game 100% on Foles yesterday. The receivers were getting open, the passing schemes were working, he just didn’t make the throws. What I find more concerning from a scheme point of view was that they couldn’t get Shady going. That’s supposed to be the bread and butter of this offense. I’m really looking forward to Sheil’s All-22 breakdown to see if the run problems where people getting beat man-on-man or something the defense was doing that was limiting Kelly’s plan.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        They couldn’t get Shady going ’cause Dallas said Fu*k the pass, we’re selling out on the run. It’s not that complicated. Dallas had two goals:

        1. Take away the underneath stuff
        2. Stuff Shady

        That’s it. They watched film, they knew Foles wasn’t comfortable throwing down field. They knew our guys had trouble beating man. They knew Foles ain’t running for no yardage. Simple.

        The thing was our guys did start beating man BUT a lot of it was down field…so Foles was gonna have to make those throws. They thought he couldn’t. And they were right.

        That’s what you call good film study and a smart gamble.

        • BlindChow

          Dallas didn’t take away the underneath stuff. There were receivers open within 10 yards of the line of scrimage. Foles just couldn’t get them the ball.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I said that was their plan and in the first half the guys were pretty well covered.

            In the second half guys got open more…but a lot of that was down field (yes he missed some short stuff as well) but The Avant miss, DJax getting behind his corner, Celek being open and some others, a lot of that was more intermediate to deep routes.

            Foles completely choked yes, but Dallas’ game plan was sound. Particularly where Shady was concerned.

          • OldDocRoss

            “Choking” is one of the most overused words in sport (people use it to describe pretty much any performance south of perfect that doesn’t deliver a W) but Foles most assuredly choked yesterday.

            I guess on the plus side that means his struggles weren’t 100% (lack of) talent based, but yeesh that was hideous.

            And still arguably only the second worst QB display of the game! I need a drink…..

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            The other part was, that even when he made some of those shorter throws folk weren’t getting a lot of YAC. Dallas seemed to be right there ready to tackle.

            He was going to have to beat them with his arm. They banked on him not being able to do that. And they were right.

      • ztom6

        Foles sucked hard, but there were some bad drops as well. It was a team effort.

    • ztom6

      Teams did this to Kelly in college too and he found ways to beat it. I want to start seeing some jet sweeps to Jackson with one of the TEs being used to pick off the guy assigned to him… that’s how Kelly used to deal with m2m defenses at Oregon.

    • aub32

      Calm down dude. This is not a scheme problem. It’s an execution problem. Vick failed to execute in KC (plus their defensive talent is better than our offensive talent). Foles failed to execute against Dallas. This offense will be fine.

      • Token

        Im not too convinced of that. But I guess we will find out.

        To beat man in this current scheme it seems you either need elite talent at every spot to win the matchup or have your QB run a bunch. Both of those things were a lot easier to accomplish in college. And probably a reason Chip would struggle against the better defenses.

        It puts a ton of the load on McCoy to be spectacular. If we didnt have him this year I think many peoples outlook would be different on this offense up to this point.

        I simply would like to see Chip be able to effectively counter something that he will keep seeing.

        • aub32

          You don’t need elite talent everywhere because the defense doesn’t have elite talent everywhere. If the defense has a Brandon Flowers to handle Jackson, then you take advantages of matchups elsewhere. You go to the #2 WR, who would have been Maclin and a good matchup against Smith. If that’s not open you can go to the TEs vs the LBs or safeties. Of course it’s going to be tough to score against top 5 defenses, but that’s exactly why they are top 5 defenses. There were plenty of places to go with the ball yesterday. Foles just didn’t deliver it.

  • http://comic-book-nerd.blogspot.com/ SJ Mitchell

    We had open receivers, Foles just buckled under the pressure of a big game. He lacks experience and this was the closest thing we’ve had to a playoff game given that it was for first place. You could tell he had jitters. He underthrew and overthrew and you could see the receivers getting frustrated.

    Tampa used Man against us and they have a shut-down corner in Revis, Foles put up big time numbers because he was comfortable in the pocket. He was familiar with his opponent. Hopefully we bounce back and take it to the Giants next week.

    Also: Philadelphia is one of this nation’s most beautiful cities. There’s plenty more than cheesesteak carts to show on TV. Although perhaps they don’t want to show the LOVE fountain if crackheads are bathing in it.

    • Richard Colton

      looked like Tampa was running a lot of zone to me SJ, like your optimism though. need some today.

      • http://comic-book-nerd.blogspot.com/ SJ Mitchell

        Yeah Tampa used mostly zone, my point was we can beat man when we have a QB that can go through progressions..

        • BlindChow

          I agree. The Giants used man and Foles was able to get the ball to the receivers. Receivers were open again against Dallas, but this time he just couldn’t deliver.

          • aub32

            The Giants are awful. We can’t expcet to go up against teams that can’t win a game each week.

    • aub32

      You really didn’t pay much attention to the Tampa game huh

  • Soybot

    Geez. Mondays already suck but after a loss like that they are just downright unbearable.

  • B-West

    Nick was so completely out of sorts that it makes it easier for me to dismiss this game. Its hard to draw many conclusions when things are so out of whack.

    One thing that annoys me tho, I wish Desean would be more of a leader. Hes quick to throw on the pouting face when things aren’t going well.

    • Token

      DeSean will never be confused with a leader. Im not sure who the leaders are going forward. DeSean and LeSean are just too immature.

      Thats one thing im worried about now when it comes to a guy like Mariota. Hes not a leader at this point. Dont think you learn that trait.

      • Richard Colton

        Jackson was Maehl-ing it in the whole second half. seemed uninterested once the game looked lost.

        • Token

          All this factors into the decision to be made on him in the offseason. I doubt hed restructure his deal anyway so it probably wont matter.

  • GiveMeABreak

    If only the Eagles can keep playing truly awful teams, they stand a much better chance of winning. So much for the “gold standard.”

  • Richard Colton

    I like the new column’s concept. shame they had to unveil it today – makes it feel like a postmortem.

    For me, the most important number that matters is 3 & 4. Even though it feels like we’re a lot further, the team is still one game out of first place. And as long as the team has a shot at making the playoffs, Chip has an obligation to play the best guys and try to win every week. The tanking talk is still premature. And as long as we’re playing the best guys and trying to win – Yes Sheil, of course it means Vick.

  • #7

    2.76 yards per pass attempt lol. Unbelievable

    • Richard Colton

      LOL?!? – you’ve never been this happy have you? Your team, the Cowboys, won, and your favorite player got to sit on the bench. Perfect weekend. I really don’t know how you could be more of a fraud. Maybe if you had Tony Romo as your QB in fantasy this week…but no, not even you would sink that low, would you?

      • #7

        I’m not happy about it all which is why I posted it. That isn’t gloating. It is a fact. It is unbelievable that an NFL QB could average 2.76 yards per pass attempt.

    • knighn

      Yes, Mike Vick certainly NEVER:
      Had a game in 2001 where he was 2.7 YPA*
      Had a game in 2002 where he was 3.1 YPA
      Had a game in 2003 where he was 2.5 YPA*
      Had a game in 2005 where he was 3.8 YPA
      Had a game in 2006 where he was 3.5 YPA
      Had a game in 2011 where he was 3.8 YPA
      * Worse than Foles’ 2.76

      And Mike Vick certainly has NEVER had worse-rated games than Nick Foles’ worse-rated game.

      Except that Vick ACTUALLY did (go check the NFLcom Game Logs)! Even Hero QBs have bad games. At least one Super Bowl MVP has had games like this. If you get games like this out of Mike Vick and Super Bowl MVPs (after years in the league), shouldn’t you expect that out of 3rd round draft pick “project” making only his 8th start?

      Or is that kind of logic just a little too unbelievable for you?

      • #7

        What does that have to do with 2013?

        • knighn

          What that has to do with 2013 is “context”. You state 2.76 yards as if it is “unbelievable”… as if it has never happened before in the history of the NFL. I showed you that it has happened before, even to your hero in his 3rd year in the NFL (2003). Nick Foles may never bounce back from this. He was a 3rd round draft pick so not much was expected from him in the first place. However, other QBs have, including your hero.

          What that has to do with 2013 is that we have Foles on our roster NOW. Vick is still recovering from his injury NOW. If you are a fan of the Eagles, and not just Vick, you want Foles to bounce back from this. History shows us that other QBs have. You should hope that Foles does, too… just in case Vick’s hamstring continues to be a problem in 2013 (or he reinjures himself). Unless you’d rather just watch the Eagles lose if Vick can’t play? In which case, you’d be confirming everything that others say about you: that you’re a fraud Eagles fan who only cares about one player.

          So, now that you know the context of those numbers, do you want Foles to bounce back? If you do not, for the rest of us Eagles fans, that would truly be unbelievable.

          • #7

            It is/was “unbelievable” to me especially the way you people hyped this guy up last week and attacked anyone who wasn’t on the bandwagon that I had a very good feeling would run off of the rails. Of course it has happened before and I’ve never said that it hasn’t, but the way you people puffed up Foles it was like it was impossible for Foles to do this so that is why it’s “unbelievable” to me regarding THIS GAME. Knighn, I’m talking about THIS GAME which has been the point of this ENTIRE THREAD or it was supposed to be.

            You ask if i want Foles to bounce back from this. Sure I do, if Foles, as the BACKUP QB, has to come in and DO HIS JOB. I pulled for Foles because I want us to win, but that does not mean I think he is a starting QB. I do not and I’ve been consistent with that.

            “Unless you’d rather just watch the Eagles lose if Vick can’t play?”

            What??? Dude I was cussing up a storm watching all of these 3 yd passes being off target. Hell you and I could have made a couple of those throws. I’ve made it known on here that I was PISSED that we lost and you and I know we should have won this game even with Foles, but he was incompetent. No need to take it personal because the Great FOles is being critiqued. He’s not above that sir.

            Sure, I see that it’s easy to label me because of my handle, but I thought it was a cool handle myself. I would want Vick as the starter if my handle was a picture of Napoleon Dynamite #9 as my handle.

            Foles is a very very good backup. I’m happy with that. Look around the league…the Rams for example. Most teams don’t have good backup QBs and we have the best backup in the league in Foles IMO.

            Well look at that, more compliments about Foles from a supposed “Foles Hater”.

            We see nothing from you that is good about Vick, even after good games by Vick. Your answer to Vick’s good games…you start talking about college QBs. And you want to call me a “fraud” fan. I would say you’re a fraud for not supporting your team no matter the QB. Period

          • knighn

            I swear you mistake everyone who says anything positive about Foles as the same person. I am not a Vick hater. I am just realistic about where he is likely to be in another two years (not in the NFL). Do you realize how similar he is to Donovan McNabb (last year with the Eagles: 33 years old, 92.9 QB rating)? Vick is 33 years old and has a 90.6 QB rating. Both guys have had their high moments. McNabb had a lot more post-season success (it was the team, I know). Both guys suffered a lot of injuries and missed a lot of playing time. Vick, over the course of his career, has missed more games per starting season. Vick, of course, was also the more prolific runner, which is why he’s taken more of a beating. I believe Vick, like McNabb in 2009, is nearing the end of his career. You disagree, not out of any logical analysis, but out of hope.

            Now, does that mean that I don’t want to see Vick do well while he is here? No, just because my logical analysis has shown that the Eagles are unlikely to be a playoff contender, regardless of QB, doesn’t mean that I don’t want Vick to do well. I have the same unrealistic dreams that every fan has: the Eagles somehow make the playoffs, play well enough as a team, get lucky and win their first Lombardi Trophy. I would love for Vick’s career to end here on the highest of high notes. That would be the ultimate redemption story and I would love to witness it.

            However: it’s interesting. Even in a scenario where the Eagles win the Super Bowl, I’m so convinced that Vick is almost done that even my next logical step still has Vick mentoring the next Eagles QB by 2015. I see all that Vick has done. I see what he might be able to do in this offense, but even in my wildest dreams I can’t imagine that he is still healthy enough to consistently lead a team by 2016, even if he somehow leads the Eagles to Super Bowl wins after the 2013 and the 2014 season.

            I understand how you see this as “Vick hate”. You love Vick so intensely that the thought of him leaving the NFL is actually painful to you. Sorry about that. Even the greatest of Eagles players eventually retire or leave the team (whether Donovan McNabb, Brian Westbrook, Brian Dawkins, Reggie White, etc). Some leave or retire earlier than others… whether they want to or not. That is why people like me talk about the next QB: it’s not because I hate Vick, but because time catches everyone, even the fastest QB in the history of the NFL.

          • #7

            What I do know, Knighn, is that you want Vick on the bench when he is clearly the best option. I see you have a lot of predictions in your post. That’s all they are, predictions. I don’t know how long Vick will play, but I suspect longer than you think. The man can still move and he can still throw. McNabb couldn’t move anymore. Couldn’t set his feet and his accuracy dipped even though it wasn’t that great in the first place.

            Do I put you in the category with the Vick Haters? Sure I do because you want a guy to play without earning the job. You’re one of the ones that want to see the “unknown” with Foles. Well they should have let Vick walk if that’s what they wanted.

            They kept him.

            I get the talk about the future, but isn’t that why Roseman is the GM and we’re not? This is his job regardless of what we think of him and he should already have a plan for the future as that is what he’s paid to do. We fans can sit here and dog him out, but apparently we weren’t good enough for the job.

            Again, if Vick retires, he retires. That doesn’t stop my life from going on so I’m not sure why you keep saying that “I will be in so much pain” lol. You’re reaching man.

            Oh, and I DO think that we can get hot with Vick if we make the playoffs. I’ve been saying that all season. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, but there’s nothing wrong with believing in your team. I worry about WINNING NOW, not who were drafting next year…at week 8.

            We’re not the Bucs man. We’re still in it. I could care less about Bridgewater or any of those guys right now. None of them are garanteed..yet you guys talk like they’re saviors..at week 8!!! You guys call me a fraud because of my handle…talking about the draft while we’re still in the playoff hunt is fraudulent fan behavior, but that’s just my opinion

          • knighn

            There is a fundamental difference between you and I as fans. You believe in one number: 7. I believe in taking a look at so many numbers. I am not talking about the numbers of the players, but wins and losses, various odds and the overall likelihood of making and winning in the playoffs in coming years. There is a lot to be learned from the recent numerical and statistical history of the NFL.

            Simply put: the Eagles have very bad odds that they will win a playoff game this year. The odds are that it will be Three or more years before the Eagles are actually ready to compete for a Super Bowl. The odds are also likely that Mike Vick will be out of the NFL, or at the very least, off of the Eagles by that point. Simply put: by playing Vick the Eagles delay their future. They delay their chances of winning the Super Bowl.

            I get it: you have a dream of Mike Vick winning the Super Bowl for the Philadelphia Eagles. It’s a very nice dream, but the numbers say that it’s highly unlikely. My dream is simply that the Eagles win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years. I don’t care who the QB will be, just that the Eagles finally hoist that Lombardi trophy. The odds say my dream is much more likely to come true.

            While I’m talking about numbers, you mentioned the dip in McNabb’s accuracy. Here are some interesting stats.
            McNabb:
            2007 Eagles – 61.5%
            2008 Eagles – 60.4%
            2009 Eagles – 60.3%
            2010 Redskins – 58.3%
            2011 Vikings – 60.3%

            Vick:
            2010 Eagles – 62.6%
            2011 Eagles – 59.8%
            2012 Eagles – 58.1%
            2013 Eagles – 53.8% (so far)

            Vick, 2013 games (so far):
            @ WAS – 60.0%
            vs SD – 63.9%
            vs KC – 43.3%
            @ DEN – 51.9%
            @ NYG – 42.9%

            Yes, I know that there are other things that may contribute to Vick’s declining accuracy, just as there were other things that contributed to McNabb’s. But surely you see, in looking at the cold, hard numbers, that it looks like Vick is starting to drop at this point in his career? You factor in another injury, another 2.5 games missed (out of only 7), and surely even you must see the writing on the wall?

            Once again: this is not “HATING” of Vick. This is simply pointing out the facts and the likely outcome of those facts: Vick does not have much time left with the Eagles.

            As the Eagles have chosen to keep him and play him, I intend to enjoy every snap, every exciting moment, and every win that he can bring to the team. As a lover of the Eagles (and numbers), I also understand that those moments likely won’t mean much to the team long-term.

  • Explorer51

    Foles obviously had a horrendous game; but it’s not the first time a QB failed and it definitely won’t be the last. But wasn’t he named the NFL Offensive Player last week? We have to put everything into context. Because it was Dallas and the whole QB controversy thing that many…fans and media alike…kept pushing, it is magnified. However, many of the best QBs, including Michael Vick in his absolute prime, had tough days in big circumstances. Do you remember this stat line: 11-24, 136 yds, a pick and no TDs, QB rating of 46.5, 4 rushes for 26 yds? You should…it was Vick’s bomb against the Eagles in the NFC Championship game in January ’05. Compare that to Foles equally bad output: 11-29, 80 yards, no picks and no TDs, QB rating of 46.2, 3 rushes for 25 yards…in the 7th game of the regular season. Bad games can happen at inopportune times but that doesn’t mean that it’s the end of a player’s career.

    • Brandon Boykin, OLB

      I would argue a couple of things re- your Vick in ’05 stat line.

      That was a playoff game, and not just any playoff game; that was the NFC Conference Championship game. It was in Philly, against a team that was headed to a Super Bowl. A team that, for all intents and purposes, was a juggernaut that season. The levels of pressure are nowhere near the same.

      To compare those two outings is a streeeetttttchhhhhh. Maybe you’re trying to say the media’s pressure is comparable? A regular season game and the NFC Conference Championship? Not even close.

      This is coming from a guy who sipped the Kool-Aid and started Nick Foles for fantasy too. Not your average biased one way or another fellow.

      • Explorer51

        Yes, the Eagles were very good that year but Atlanta was the #2 seed in the NFC with a 12-5 record so they were pretty good as well…and Michael Vick was at the top of his game. My point is that every QB has dreadful games in their career which don’t end up defining them; here’s another example: Tom Brady, first game of his third season against Buffalo, 31-0 loss, 14-28, 123 yds, 0 TDs and 4 picks, no rushing yards, 22.5 QB rating. Interesting to note that the next week he killed the Eagles 31-10 and only lost one more game that Super Bowl winning year.

        • Brandon Boykin, OLB

          I understand your point. What I am saying is you can’t take the performance of a QB during the game before the Super Bowl, on the road in a hostile, cold environment, against a damn good team, and compare it with a week 7 matchup. There is no comparison.

          And Tom Brady is Tom Brady. Weak argument on my part, but is there really any arguing it?

    • #7

      You’re comparing an NFC Championship game against a week 7 regular season game. You lost me there

      • Explorer51

        Please read my replies to aub32 and Brandon Boykin, OLB.

    • aub32

      Very much a reach sir. I get not kicking Foles off the team for one bad performance, but let’s not get silly.

      • Explorer51

        Not a Vick knock, it’s that every QB, even the best, have bad games; I listed a Brady line below and if you go to game logs on Pro-Football-Reference.com you will see that the greats (and, no, I’m not putting Foles in their category except for magnified reference) have had putrid games that they bounced back from. Brees, Favre, Manning…all had horrendous stat lines in games of varying magnitude. This was Foles 12th game appearance so we shouldn’t bury him for a brutal outing.

        • anon

          His first 7 starts weren’t great either — but we generally throw those out b/c of last year (right thing to do). But damn we had this game in the palm of our hands. That was the best defensive game we’d played in probably 2 years. Shame we couldn’t reward them.

  • Jason Hall

    You guys should’ve tuned in to First Take as Skip Bayless talked about Nick Foles performance too funny. But its over and we have to focus on the giants to stay in this NFC East battle. Washington got a W yesterday so these two wins coming up are important. Im hoping that the defense play like or even better against the Giants and we put up points.

  • #7

    Yeah, we lost to Dallas at home, but Foles did his job for the most part. Foles is a backup and his job is to come in and win a few games if they can. He did that. He was terrible yesterday and a lot of the things that a lot of people said he could do (throw people open, smarter than Vick, etc etc etc) he did not.

    We’ve seen this before from Foles. This is what Foles is when a team can gameplan for him. I like Foles, but the man can’t throw the football effectively to be a franchise QB.

    I spoke of the “hype train” last week and that train did exactly what I predicted. Didn’t want it to crash, but I felt people on here were trying to force people to get on the bandwagon. Expectations should have been kept at a reasonable level instead of putting Foles in Canton after 2 wins against winless teams.

    Oh, and there was A LOT OF GLOATING last week by a bunch of people that I could name (DICK COLTON) but I’ll leave that alone. There’s no doubt ( or there shouldn’t be but there will be some made up anyway) that Vick Is The Starting QB for this year. Thank God. Watching Foles is brutal.

    No need for me to gloat like the “folezies” were last week. We “vick folk” as we’re called predicted all of this and it is of no surprise that Foles wilted under pressure

    • jabostick

      No need to gloat *spends entire post gloating*

      I’ll preface all this by saying that I’ve generally been in
      support of Vick starting (though I thought Foles earned this last one).

      Here’s the problem (or one of them). Vick and Foles are essentially polar opposites so when one of them plays bad, the other one looks disproportionately better. When they play good, the ‘supporters’ extrapolate that performance to every other game. But BOTH are inconsistent so we’re going to constantly have this problem. Vick WILL have a game where he’s careless with the ball. It’s inevitable. And some one will point out that in this Dallas game, at least there weren’t TO’s and, until the end, the game was still within reach. And if you play that game ten times, you can’t envision a scenario where Foles hits a few of those easy throws and it’s a different outcome? I don’t think he was doomed to crash and burn simply because he got game planned.

      Both guys are very different and bring different things to the table – and some of those things aren’t good.

      • #7

        Stating facts..I wouldn’t call that gloating. I did my gloating when Vick won the QB competition and IMO it wasn’t very much.

        You guys, on the other hand, damn near had a party on here after Foles’ good games..and I STILL gave Foles credit for those games and was pulling for him in this game.

        2.76 yards per pass attempt. That is a fact. I’m not gloating at all, you seem to be upset because your boy had a bad game.

        Even though I was never on the Foles hype train, I never pulled for him to fail like your boy Richard Colton and others pull for Vick to fail. It was inevitable that Foles would be exposed. Foles did his job as a backup QB. We can’t be surprised by games like this from him because he’s..well..a backup QB. It has been proven

        • Richard Colton

          When did I pull for Foles to fail? My feelings about Foles have been consistent – he’s an unknown quality and I don’t know if he can play or not. The only reason I wanted Vick to start after he won the QB competition was to win games.

          Likewise, your feelings for Foles are consistent – you damn him with faint praise as long as he isn’t a threat to your idol, then you root for him to fail. Seriously, don’t ever call yourself an Eagles fan. You don’t get it. Its not like Atlanta where you can like one guy casually.

          • #7

            I made the correction to my post. You pull for Vick to fail IMO. You’ve come close to flat out saying it. We all know that you do not like Vick. You’re so confusing man. One minute you want a college QB, then you turn around and say “you wanted Vick to start after he won the QB competition was to win games”.

            “Likewise, your feelings for Foles are consistent – you damn him with faint praise as long as he isn’t a threat to your idol”

            LMAO you crack me up dude. If anything, at least I will give credit where it’s due while you give Vick ZERO credit. I don’t root for Foles to fail, I just don’t think that he’s good enough and you feel the same about Vick. So what’s the problem DICK COLTON? It’s the exact same thing lol.

            You can keep on with your little remarks. That’s all you have left to stand on

          • Richard Colton

            LMAO? ROFL? – you write like a fourteen year old girl. I’m done with the Fanboys – root for whomever you like. Just be honest with everyone here. For most of us, the preseason argument came down to FUTURE vs. NOW; for you it was MY HERO vs. STANDING IN THE WAY OF MY HERO.

            you live in Atlanta
            you’re a former Cowboys fan
            you spent three days gloating like you won something personally when Vick was named the starter and stated publicly that you wanted Foles to fail

            I mean, seriously, you have zero credibility. Not an Eagles fan. Vick fan.

          • #7

            Touched a nerve, eh??

            LOL Have a good day Dick Colton

          • Richard Colton

            Same to you. Just here to keep the Fanboys honest.

          • #7

            You got it, Dick

          • #7

            And why don’t you get it right, Dick. Never used ROFL. I don’t even know what that means Dick.

        • jabostick

          Ha, I was just teasing about the gloating thing.

          For the record, I admitted to *generally* being a Vick supporter, especially because his game tends to help out Shady. I also have said that he seems like a great teammate and plays his ass off. But I also cheer for whoever is on the field in an Eagles jersey.

          And fuck yes I was upset that he had a bad game. It was against the Cowboys!

  • nicksaenz1

    Pretty sure if there was too small of a sample size to make any definitive judgments of Foles after last week’s game, which happened to be a great game from him, it’s likely still too small to make such judgments. Or, for some, maybe the sample size seems just right since it was capped off with awful performance.

    • ftotheyu

      I think you can make at least a conclusion that Foles’ floor is unacceptably low. The way he played yesterday was inexcusable, it was horrible. I wouldn’t even say that’s acceptable for a rookie in their first start. An NFL starting QB will have their ups and downs, but this stinker is on a different wavelength.

      • nicksaenz1

        It’s bad and inexcusable, but not on a different wavelength. There have been plenty of first round draft busts who have put up comparable games.

        • Dutch

          Not in 10 years has a QB gone anything like 11 for 29, and I can’t remember any first round QB looking so miserable, but obviously you do. Can you drop a name for us?

      • EaglePete

        it was just really bad. Pathetic comes to mind. I couldnt believe he wasnt able to complete some of those passes to wide open guys. Like something was wrong mentally, it didnt make sense. Not encouraging thats for sure. Im okay with a bad game here or there, just like you said, not sure what that mess was.

    • Richard Colton

      Yeah Nick, but what about the conventional wisdom on Foles’ shortcomings even before the game? Not mobile enough to be a sufficient threat in the run game. Doesn’t make quick decisions with the ball (Ray Diddinger). Doesn’t have the velocity to zip balls into tight windows. Did he do anything on Sunday that makes you think those things aren’t still issues?

      • cliff henny

        cripes, he added to his shortcomings! he was historically bad. i get having bad games, but he showed not one trait at any point n the game that made me want to see more of him, and i was searching…jeeze, just really dissappointing.

        • #7

          He’s not that bad henny. Foles is a very very competent backup. Foles has done well for himself being a 3 rounder project. I like Foles, he just not a starting QB. He can come in for us and win games.

          That’s what you want in your backup QB, right?

          • cliff henny

            he wasnt any of that yesterday. regressed in pocket awareness and was lost when rolling out. thought he could be capable backup, not even sure of that now, it was simply that bad of a performance. was 99.999% future qb is in ’14 draft before game, it’s gone up to 100%

          • #7

            Lol you might have a point there. Just wish I could have some faith in these QBs coming out.

          • Dutch

            BS, he should have never been selected in the 3rd round. He is more a 6th rd project. Chip Kelly is getting this Foles nonsense out of the Fans system, as if they’ve not seen enough of Foles in 2012. Let’s stop pretending we have something in Foles, because we don’t.

            All Foles can offer the Eagles is heartbreak and disappointment.

            Sheil, I don’t agree with No.1 above on the 60 yard FG, based on the early reports on Foles, the Eagles were in a better position with trying a 60 yd fg, as they would have been getting a first down and another stalled drive to end the half.

            It was not the offense was stagnant yesterday, Heavy is the head that wears the crown, the Offense was stagnant because of Nick Foles playing under center. He was so bad he negated any rushing game, the Cowboys strictly played Shady to get the ball, a complete sell out. They dared Foles to keep the ball.

            There is no tweaking the offense for captain Zero, the kid flat out stinks.

          • JofreyRice

            haha! This is great. Your Foles irrational-hate posts are my silver lining. Thanks!

          • Dutch

            Sorry you mischaracterized the truth as I see his football abilities as hate. I happen to think he’s a worthy young fella. A horrible QB, but a stellar young man.

          • Richard Colton

            “Heavy is the hat that wears the crown” is the clubhouse leader for Dutch-ism of the week.

          • JofreyRice

            big is the boot that wears the sneaker.

          • Dutch

            You’re always a dollar short and a day late.

          • Richard Colton

            well played Dutch. next time, don’t wait 10 hours, but solid.

      • nicksaenz1

        He did the complete opposite of the Tampa game in terms of the throws he was able to complete against Tampa that he couldn’t against Dallas. I’d be more inclined to call him inconsistent at this point.

        • RIP illa

          Complete opposite based off of more zone than tight man. It changes things for a QB. But I can see the inconsistent point at the least.

          • nicksaenz1

            I completely understand your point about the zone v man, but a lot of the throws were things he was hitting on in Tampa. I remember a couple crossing routes that were behind, the Avant shoulda-been TD, those were all throws he was making in Tampa last week. It’s inconsistent. Terrible, but inconsistent.
            I wouldn’t even call it tight man, sure they certainly had some good coverage, but Foles missed some open guys, too many, actually.

          • Dutch

            Tampa is a train wreck of a team, why would you play zone against the Eagles receivers when they’re incapable of clean breaks off the line and have lead feet? Even in the man defense yesterday, players had opening to make plays, Foles simply missed those opportunities.

            1. Dallas pass rushers aren’t Tampa Bay.

            2. The Eagles O Line provided solid protection, on a few of the Dallas Sacks, Foles has 6 secs to find a receiver, or throw the ball away.

            He Biched…………. It was comical, if you were watching any place other than in Philly. It was obvious he was completely loss.

            Foles is not the guy for Chip Kelly’s Offense and to this point no other NFL Team, period.

          • #7

            He’s not THAT bad Dutch lol. He has a place in the NFL for sure. I like Foles as a backup. He did his job as the backup QB

          • nicksaenz1

            No one is denying his poor game, Delta. You trying to dismiss Tampa after you were crediting them for having a good D before we played them doesn’t work, though.

          • Dutch

            “Poor Game”, that’s being politically correct……….. ROFLMAO…….. It was a game pundits around the league are laughing at…. All of those talking heads in the media who were calling for Foles as the possible anointed Eagles starter are being laughed out of their stadium parking passes……

            Everybody though Tampa was solid because of a struggling Brady and Brees, when you look where both are in comparison to other QBs in the league this early season, you see both were just getting their legs under them and thereby Tampa was credited with playing each hard, when that’s far from the truth.

            Point being, Tampa a winless team, is a train wreck of a defense and it’s obvious when you see them play, they look exactly like the Eagles the last two seasons.

            I do concede for some of you that is solid play.

            It’s not just a poor game, it’s a game you review and wonder how in the hell is this kid in the league.

          • pjcostello

            A train wreck of a defense? Seriously? Drew Brees and the Saints managed only 19 points against that train wreck. That Brees guy must be pretty bad, huh?

          • JofreyRice

            “It was a game pundits around the league are laughing at…. All of those talking heads in the media who were calling for Foles as the possible anointed Eagles starter are being laughed out of their stadium parking passes……”

            So the pundits are laughing at the talking heads, or just laughing in general? Are you sure they weren’t laughing about something else, that happened earlier?

            For me, I think it comes down to who do you trust more, a laughing pundit, or a talking head without a parking pass? We’ll see what Chip Kelly thinks. I guess?

          • Dutch

            when you respond to my post you rarely have much to write about the subject matter of football, why is that?

          • JofreyRice

            I look at interactions with you as an opportunity to learn about your theories of life in general, and don’t want to limit myself to football.

          • JofreyRice

            I don’t know. Inconsistent is one thing, but that was really beyond the pale. I mean, if it was for just a quarter…but that was horrible, awful, play of the position. The kind of thing that’s just not acceptable for an NFL QB on his worst day. Maybe if it comes out that he was on bath salts or something.

        • Dutch

          Tampa is a train wreck, no matter the sentiment on this board, Tampa caught a couple struggling offenses and as a result looked good, Fools Gold. It was incomprehensible to remotely mistake Tampa Bay for a solid defense. Dallas had a week to prepare for Foles, took away Shady McCoy and the short passing game and forced Foles to look over the top to connect with receivers, when he took a shot on DJax he came up a few inches short on this long ball.

          That was pretty consistent with my projections on what Foles had or does not have and what disqualifies him from being a legitimate NFL Quality QB.

          I still would like to know where some of the participants in here saw any accuracy in Foles, or an ability to make quick decisions with a quick release. When given ample time, protection and space in the route Foles suffered from plain old Fashion panic and fear.

          • nicksaenz1

            You never miss an opportunity to kill Foles or pat yourself on the back.

          • cliff henny

            give dutch credit, everything he ever said about foles showed up in this 1 game.

          • nicksaenz1

            Yeah, and everything he said didn’t show against Tampa, which he now says has a horrible defense despite saying before the Tampa game that they had a formidable D.

          • cliff henny

            he says alot about qbs. been nice if foles did 1 thing yesterday to point at as a positive…just wasnt anything. that throw to avant sent me spiraling-chicken armed another underthrown wobbler. pass to jax was about 10yds to inside. lobs that out towards pylon, jax runs under it easily. bad arm, bad placements, bad reads, bad mobility, endless bad!

          • nicksaenz1

            I’m not denying it. He looked like sh*t. It’s one game, though. That said, another one like that and I’ll be on the wagon of 2014 Draft.

          • cliff henny

            fair enough…i might be little more forgiving friday, but i doubt it

          • nicksaenz1

            This is why I made my original post. If it was a small sample as of last week, it likely still is this week.

          • cliff henny

            playing like hot garbage is not a good way to get my support or even patience.

          • nicksaenz1

            No one said it is. At least we’re not Jacksonville fans.

          • Dutch

            He, Foles had a longer look and opportunity than Kevin Kolb. How many games do you think Paying Fans can stand to sit through watching this garbage of a QB stink up the Linc? Name another QB in recent history who has looked as horrible as Kolb and Foles and has become anything beyond a permanent clip board warmer?

            Some of you are real intent on seeing the Eagles become the Cleveland Browns, aren’t you?

          • CMI82

            I will give you the numbers of two quarterbacks over the first ~350 pass attempts of their careers.

            PLAYER A: 1,571 yards, a 55% completion percentage, with 16 TDs, 22 INTs and a quarterback rating of 64.

            PLAYER B: 2,321 yards, a 60% completion percentage, 12 TDs and 5 INTs with a quarterback rating of 84.7.

            Any guesses?

            I will make it easy. Player A is Peyton Manning. Player B is Nick Foles. In a vacuum, who had better stats over the same period of time to begin their careers?

            Make no mistake, I am not suggesting that Nick Foles has even a remote chance at being as good as Peyton Manning. He doesn’t. What I am suggesting is that taking one game, or even eight games, as the definitive answer for what a player will become is foolhardy. I made the point earlier that we use far too much hyperbole around here. This is a good example. Let’s pick apart the game he played yesterday and intelligently discuss the flaws we think might be emerging in his game. Let’s not make every game and every throw a referendum on Vick versus Foles. It’s tired and made even more tired when the debate takes place in the complete absence of reasoned opinions.

          • #7

            You’re one of the few that does not make it Vick vs Foles

          • CMI82

            Yea, I know that. I have zero problem with people having an opinion. What I do take issue with is when that opinion lack any reasoned argument and is just an emotional response. When you look at this quarterback situation, a truly reasonable argument can be made on either side of the coin so calling people stupid for falling on one side of the issue is beyond me.

          • Dutch

            That in no way helps your argument in comparing Manning to Foles……… that’s plain hilarious. No matter how Manning started in Indy, we knew from Tennessee Manning had the knowledge, skills and talent to succeed at this level, it’s in his pedigree. He came close to 2 undefeated seasons at Tennessee.

            That separates him from Foles even before putting on a jock strap in Indy.

          • Dutch

            Peyton Manning isn’t in the most recent history, but there is nothing familiar in Manning and Foles, that’s just pipe dreaming. Even if we go back to Collage, there is nothing similar to begin to compare Foles and Manning.

            Foles hasn’t been part of a winning campaign in Football since maybe high school. There’s nothing remotely familiar between Manning and Foles.

            But the comparison is rather funny……The best that Foles could hope to achieve is the mild success of Kevin Kolb another Peyton he just is NOT.

          • Dutch

            No, that’s his 7th Game and, in all 7 of the games he started he’s look the same way…….. it’s not just one game……….. you’re lying or you have no idea what you’re looking at.

          • CMI

            See, it’s comments like this that make it difficult to have reasonable discourse. Don’t call people liars or tell them they have no idea what they are looking at when a very reasonable argument can be made. You said: “No, that’s his 7th Game and, in all 7 of the games he started he’s look the same way…….. it’s not just one game.” You know that’s plain not true. He did not look this way against Tampa, he did not look this way in the second half against the Giants. He didn’t look this way against the Redskins, Tampa or the Cowboys last year. Criticize the game he played yesterday. He was terrible. But when you resort to calling people liars and telling them they are stupid if they think he ever had NFL talent, it cheapens any point you are trying to make.

          • #7

            You should try getting your boy Richard “Dick” Colton under control. He is the worst

          • Richard Colton

            That’s actually my nickname from when I lived in Georgia. See? Common ground. I’d like you if you weren’t a Cowboys fan.

          • #7

            Nice name. I bet everyone wished their nickname was Dick. I’m jealous. Too bad you can’t come up with anything else because you’re too stupid.

            I guess if my name was DICK COLTON I’d be stupid as F too

          • Richard Colton

            Don’t you mean “your to stupid?” At least keep it consistent.

          • #7

            Grammar Nazi. Thanks Dick. i appreciate YOUR wisdom and insight

          • theycallmerob

            still making genital jokes, eh? pretty low bar, even for a cowboys fan

          • #7

            Not you too rob. Thought you were better than that. It’s not a genital joke actually. Dick is his name, so I’m calling him by his name. This guy follows me around constantly and you see it too.

            As far as your Cowboys jokes, people can’t control or pick where they grew up…. You should be glad that I “flipped” to the right team…22 years ago lol. You guys need something else. It’s getting pretty stale and make you guys look like 14 year olds since you can’t come up with anything original

          • theycallmerob

            better than what? I couldn’t make it to the bottom of the page without having to read you type “dick” in caps every chance you got. something about taking the higher road.

          • #7

            Tell your boy Dick to give that a try. I’ve already tried to take the higher road several times and ignore Dick, but the guy just can’t help but follow me around constantly.

          • theycallmerob

            …guess that one went over your head. reckon there’s more than one dick on this thread anyhow. {rofl lmao :) >>} _-$

          • #7

            Coach your boy Dick up on the higher road thing you speak of. Tried to work with him, but Dick refuses

          • RIP illa

            Come on he and RC are hilarious when they go at it. And nothing wrong w/ genital jokes (genital warts, another story) as we have a bunch of guys w/ phallic names on the roster.

          • Dutch

            Similarly I feel it is unreasonable for anyone to defend the myth that Foles has some undiscovered talent to become a NFL quality QB. Especially when he’s shown time and again that is something frankly the kid is incapable of achieving. The disconnect between you and myself exist in that we have complete opposite opinions on talent and skill set as demonstrated by the athlete. I, in watching Foles last season and this season sees nothing that suggest he has ever looked good against quality competition. He was not in my opinion terrible just yesterday, but he was as terrible last season.

            You’ve not read me referring to anyone as stupid. And also, there are a great many of people who participate on this board that have no idea about defining NFL Talent. Those are my observations. Now whether they are admired or not isn’t an objective of mines but it is the simple truth.

            As I see it Foles looked horrible in all 6 games he started last season, and looked just as miserable yesterday. The kid just didn’t look like much of anything last season to built any hopes around and he certainly didn’t look like much to hope for in the future yesterday. He looked worse than Kevin Kolb and that’s difficult to do .

            The teams you’re naming that he played against were garbage, Dallas is garbage this year as they were last year. There is no way to look at Dallas and come away believing they’re a reasonably good team, their entire defensive line was out yesterday.

            These guys putting forth this bogue argument on Foles are the same guys who were fawning over JPP of the Giants for his one season with 16 sacks, in the last 2 years what has he mustered one single sack. That’s hardly something to fawn over. These guys also went on the same way about Ryans and Kendricks and they are the biggest disappointments on the Eagles defense.

            Kendricks, Ryan, JPP, and Foles, If we were to put them all in a boat to China together no Football Fan in America would miss their contributions to the NFL. These talent theorist who gather here are the same contingent who sung to anyone listening the Eagles should not draft Geno Smith.

            Bottom line, Foles is not NFL talent and he’s never going to become a NFL Quarterback especially for a Chip Kelly offense. Yesterday you saw the same fear in Foles you saw in Kevin Kolb, everybody is not fit for a NFL Rush.

          • knighn

            Dutch – are you actually saying someone else is lying? Do you actually know the definition of irony or did you lie about that too?

            You lie all of the time. You claimed that Tampa Bay had a great defense and that Foles would struggle to put up points. When that proved not to be the case, you changed up your story.

            I have pointed out, repeatedly, that young QBs generally improve as their careers go on. You gave me some BS that “Eli Manning won 5 out of his first 7 games as a rookie”. No he didn’t. He was 1-6. Once again:
            http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/gamelogs?season=2004
            In fact: Foles, despite his struggles has a better career QB rating, right now, than Eli Manning had after his first 4 seasons in the NFL (2004, 2005, 2006, 2007). So, are you saying that your favorite, Matt Barkley can’t improve over that one game we just saw? That one game should indicate what we expect from Barkley his whole career?

            Sadly, these are just the start of your lies.

            Either provide straightfoward, honest analysis and opinion or JUST SHUT UP. You are the biggest blowhard liar on this site.

          • #7

            DAMN!! Knighn going in!!

          • Dutch

            Actually it was he’s lying or he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I believe it’s the latter. And yes, I believe Barkley is a better prospect at QB than Nick Foles will ever become. My opinion on Foles is specifically about Foles prospects, you don’t have to distribute my analysis on Foles to other potential NFL QBs. I simply don’t believe Foles is a NFL Quality QB. He has yet to show he has the talent. And Foles doesn’t compare to either Manning as a prospect or anything close beginning with their College careers. There is in my mind no similarities. What Eli is or has become, Foles will never be in the NFL

            It’s a pretty lame argument to try and compare their talents. Peyton went something like 0-16 his first year in Indy, still Foles doesn’t compare and there’s nothing remotely familiar in their styles and or back grounds before the NFL to suggest there is any degree of likeness. That’s a looser argument and you look bad bringing either Manning up as a comparison to Foles.

            Now to your point, Foles is garbage and that’s evident to anyone interested in Football for any length of time. So much so that he won’t be in Philly next season. It’s probably doubtful you’ll ever see him in any game but a pre-season.

            Also By the standard of their reputations, Tampa Bay featuring Goldson and Revis are supposed to be the standard of a back end defense. That’s based on their play throughout their careers. Well it didn’t work out that way this year and certainly not against the Eagles. That ironic enough is not a lie but a subjective opinion on my behalf. Seems you’re the blowhard of this discussion.

            As I stated, my conclusion after watching Tampa in action is that Revis isn’t 100%, and certainly not good enough yet as far as his health to cover DJax man to man.

            That has to be the only reason the Bucs did not play every receiver in press coverage. It’s useless to play the Eagles in a zone being their receivers are slow and can’t beat single cover defenses.

          • knighn

            If you’ve watched anything for any length of time, it’s politics, NOT football. I’d say that you speak out of both sides of your mouth like a politician, except that would be an insult to politicians. You aspire to be that good at double-talk and you’re just not there yet.

            I have NEVER said that Foles is like a Manning. I have said, all along, that young QBs generally improve. I used a number of QBs to make that point, including Eli Manning. YOU have tried to claim, repeatedly, that, in today’s age, what you see is what you get when it comes young QBs. Then you try to say that Matt Barkley is a better prospect than Nick Foles. Which is it? “What you see is what you get” or “Young QBs have room for improvement”? Certainly Matt Barkley can improve over that game, can’t he?

            Your own words trap you. You come up with an idea, like “no QB has ever made the Super Bowl without TWO pro bowl caliber pass-protectors” and you state it as fact, NOT as an opinion. It’s the ultimate in laziness in an age where all of these things can be easily proven wrong by just a little research. If you have an opinion, state it as an opinion, not as a fact.

            Oh, and when your strongly and repeatedly stated opinion is wrong, like “Foles won’t be able to score against the Bucs”, just admit that you were wrong. You can go into a long explanation as to WHY you were wrong later. Just man up and admit you were wrong, first. Unfortunately, you have never shown the ability to admit that you are actually wrong, which just makes you more wrong.

            Sadly, even in your explanation: you’re wrong again. “It’s useless to play the Eagles in a zone being their receivers are slow and can’t beat single cover defenses.” To which anyone can say: DeSean Jackson. There’s no qualification in your statement (as in “outside of DeSean Jackson…”).

            So, collecting all of your mistakes, here’s the conclusion that we must come to about you:
            you’re both arrogant and often wrong. You either think you know about football or you think you have a successful command over the English language. In both areas you have proven to be severely lacking. Grow up and show some humility and we’ll take you more seriously. Until then, yes: you are the biggest blowhard liar on this site. Thanks for playing. Bye-bye.

          • #7

            ouch

          • Dutch

            On paper they had a formidable D considering the games they had against Brees and Brady, but upon further review there was no way you could classify the Bucs as a formidable defense.

            The problem with being Formidable on paper is there is coming a time when you have to show up between the white lines.

            Nobody lining up a formidable defense has 0 wins…….

          • JofreyRice

            So you basically just talk out of your !ss about who’s good and who’s bad, without ever checking them out, besides “on paper”?

          • Dutch

            With Tampa’s defense i relied on Revis and Goldson, but as we seen that wasn’t the case in Tampa this year exactly like it wasn’t the case with Nnamdi and DRC in Philly the last two seasons. We saw that act before. It just doesn’t play well live and up close.

            That’s giving them the benefit of the doubt….. in both cases. Now I’m forced to believe that Revis isn’t 100% yet, there’s no reason playing the Eagles with capable defenders you don’t play them man to man unless you’re trying to hide deficiencies or injuries in your defense. In Tampa’s Case, hiding injuries makes more sense due to the severity of Revis’s injury last season.

            There’s only one logical conclusion: Revis could not have stayed on Jackson in Man coverage.

          • #7

            See…you guys take it that way but what Dutch is saying is fact. You guys expect us to take your criticism of Vick as fact and you people don’t want anyone to challenge you on your thought/opinions. Not sure why this bothers you so much if everything he’s saying is true

          • nicksaenz1

            Vick has an entire body of work to make the claims, versus 8 starts for Foles. A few more like that and I’ll agree, but, he’s played one bad game all year and you’re acting like that’s the book on the kid’s career. So, calling it fact is bold. It was, however, a fact for yesterday’s game. No denying that.

          • anon

            whatd he do in his first 6 starts?

          • nicksaenz1

            60% completion, 1700 yards, some rookie play but also some presence and poise in the face of arguably the worst o-line in the league.

          • Dutch

            Nothing that saves him from being released at the end of this season.

          • Dutch

            Vick has a future in Philly, even as a back up for a new QB, Foles has no future in Philly, there’s nothing he is capable of doing in Chip Kelly’s Offense that lends it to being an efficient attack strategy.

            Vick did not stink the joint up yesterday, but he has stated a case to be a legitimate Back up for the option QB we draft this year, Foles, not so much….. He won’t return…….

          • #7

            That’s what we’re talking about. Yesterday’s game

          • JofreyRice

            Oh please, someone found the posts where he was talking about much talent Tampa had on D until Foles lit them up. Calling Darrelle Revis, Goldson and Barron “scrubs” is asinine, and obviously agenda-driven.

            He hit throws against zone coverage, and he hit nothing yesterday–even when the guys beat man, as shown above. It’s unnecessary to re-write history to observe Foles didn’t look like an NFL QB against the Cowboys.

          • #7

            Sorry, but what Dutch is talking about regarding THIS GAME is fact and I agree with him on that. He’s being a bit extreme as far as Foles not being an NFL QB. He is that, just not a starter. Nothing wrong with that

          • anon

            They look good on paper. It does take some games to rebut the personnel presumption.

          • Dutch

            Tampa has the most expensive secondary in Football, similar to the Eagles with Nnamdi and DRC, scheme was terrible in both cases. Tampa has the talent, they have rotten schemes and as a result are a winless train wreck of a defense exactly like the Eagles were the previous two seasons.

            Bottom line, Brady and Brees were struggling when they faced Tampa and as a result Tampa was mistaken for having a solid defense, but there’s no way after watching Tampa anyone could come away convinced that was a solid defense.

            Those of you after watching Foles chew up that secondary for almost 300 yds and argue Tampa Bay defense is solid have no idea what you’re talking about.

            You can’t find one person that gets paid to analyze football to agree with any of you Tampa Bay has a good defense.

          • Dutch

            Foles is garbage, it’s not like I had not forecasted this disappointment some of you Foles backers are feeling today……… I’ve been telling this board about Foles since he dawned an Eagles Jersey.

            It’s delusional to make believer he’s ever shown any NFL Talent because he doesn’t have any, I said the same about Kevin Kolb.

            I pretty much disagree with lots of people on this board when it comes to talent, there are still a number of you in love with Kendricks, and Ryan. That’s another round of disappointment waiting to come off the tracks.

    • Basscase

      The one thing you can point out is how he did the same thing before on the play he was injured – rolling out to the sidelines, and instead of throwing it away, he either runs out of bounds or takes an unnecessary sack.

      This wasn’t the first time he did that, and it’s little things like that which don’t get a lot of play that make me wonder.

  • knighn

    Strange stats part 1:
    Nick Foles has a QB passer rating of only 46.2 against the Cowturds yesterday. That is NOT the worst QB passer rating an Eagles QB has put up in the last 3 years. That would be the 32.5 that Mike Vick put up against the Arizona Cardinals on November 12, 2011.
    http://www.nfl.com/player/nickfoles/2532842/gamelogs?season=2013
    http://www.nfl.com/player/michaelvick/2504531/gamelogs?season=2011
    Mike Vick has appeared have bounced back from that and even WORSE rated games from early in his career (see the other years in his game logs). Let’s hope Foles can do the same.

    Strange stats part 2:
    Even after yesterday’s absolute suck-fest, Foles somehow still has a higher passer rating that Mike Vick for the year. (source: NFL.com)
    Nick Foles: 101.2
    Mike Vick: 90.6

    My strange, stupid analysis:
    It appears Foles “lows” as a passer in 2013 have been much lower than Vick’s “lows” while his overall “highs” may have been a little bit higher. There’s no question, looking at both of these QBs, that they need to play a little more consistently at a high level. At this point it also appears that there is very little question about any of the 3 QBs on the roster: none are the QB of the future. In Vick you’ve got a 33-yr old QB with a long history of injury who has already missed another 2.5 games out of this 7-game season. In Foles, you’ve got a 3rd round pick who has limited arm strength and limited mobility. If he is going to have a future in the NFL, he needs a lot of work. What I saw yesterday made Foles look like a less-talented Tony Romo: OK in some games but chokes in the bigger games. And Matt Barkley: apparently a weaker-armed turnover machine waiting to happen (Much more on the level of fellow 4th round pick Mike Kafka than a projected 2012 first round pick).

    Part of me wants to see Vick as soon as he is healthy again and only if he is healthy again. I don’t want to see Vick out there if he’s going to injure that hammy again. After all: I hate watching my Eagles lose, especially to division rivals. A healthy Vick would seem to give the Eagles the best chance to win.
    Part of me still really wants to see Barkley and Foles out there. Either they will improve as players or they continue to suck. Either way, I think you can almost guarantee at least one more loss with Foles, and probably many more losses with Barkley. It serves two purposes: improve the Eagles young QBs (if it is even possible) and improve the Eagles draft position (and we know that is possible). I still don’t think that this team, as a whole, is good enough to compete in the playoffs. I think the 17 points allowed by the defense yesterday was more of a mirage than something we should expect consistently.

    • anon

      So you’re saying despite his play yesterday Foles still has a better passer rating that Aaron Rodgers? As if that has anything to do with winning games. He could have been 12-50 as long as he makes the Avant through, and does enough to keep us in the game.

      The problem with Foles is that I think he gave up. Players can play poorly, it happens. But when he went down it just looked like he quit. Why not throw the ball away, slide, run out of bounds. I think everything just got to him. I think that’s the most damning thing for me. Bad game, but still no TOs, but i think mentally it showed a lot.

      • #7

        Gave up? Thats a strong word man…

      • knighn

        Yes, that’s exactly what I said. I put it under “Strange Stat 1″ because that’s what it is – a strange stat, Lazy Reader. If you kept reading you saw that I said other things, like “both QBs need to play at a higher level more consistently” and “Vick would seem to give the Eagles the best chance to win”.

        And you know, I won’t say that he gave up, but I can’t say that wasn’t the case either. I’ll tell you this: he sure looked like he was scared going into that game. Any poise I had seen out of him in other games seemed completely gone. Perhaps Foles has hit his ceiling, hard… and that ceiling is “backup”. The moment definitely seemed too big for him yesterday.

  • camasbud

    Look close at formation. Tight end and slot receiver close to line, makes it easy for Cowboys to fill the box, stop the run, and confuse Foles on who is blitzing. First time this year the Kelly used this formation for most of game, in lieu of spread formation that makes it easier for QB to read the option, and pick target prior to snap. Foles was bad, but I put this one on Kelly.

    • anon

      Haha please. Bunch formation to help against man coverage.

  • RIP illa

    Don’t know if this has been said yet, but Peters had the best quote when he talked about, ‘maybe not getting to the 2nd level enough’. That’s what Shady needs to do what he does, which a lot of times is make something out of very little.

    The OL play has been very inconsistent from series to series throughout the season, but this was the 1st time I saw very little 2nd level blocking attempts. Cowboys LBs were all over Shady. Sure he could make the 1st one or two miss, as he usually does, but then the next one or two were there to take him down.

    I think most fans and reporters are blinded by Shady’s elusive talents, which makes them think that the line has been playing great in the run game all season…it hasn’t! Shady covers up a lot of missed blocks and man v man loses for this unit and I’m really surprised that no one talks or reports about this more. Yet this was an absolute abysmal performance by the group and kind of weird, that for the 1st time in a long time, they had a better day in pass pro than run blocking.

    And I said it before, and I’ll say it again…Brown is not a zone runner. Put a FB in front of the kid or get some more traps and draws going for him w/ a pulling guard or motion TE and we will definitely see more of the flashes we saw last year!!!

    • Richard Colton

      there isn’t a more infuriating player on this team than Brown. What’s the deal? Can he play? Why has he regressed?

      And yeah, run blocking, which was the strength of the O-line through five games, looked bad. Pass blocking, however, looked fine yesterday. Foles had all day to throw.

      • Token

        Bryce just cant play. Maybe he will one day find a spot in another system. But he aint gonna work here.

      • anon

        He’s flashed. Maybe he doesn’t have the work ethic to go from talented to special. I’m sure he’d look great on a number of teams.

        • RIP illa

          Actually reports out of camp was that he was working very hard. But yeah…event though I wrote, at length, about the scheme…I still think there’s something w/in himself that’s holding him back. He should have at least flashes on a handful of plays by now.

          • #7

            He seems to be one of the guys that needs a lot of carries to get going which is understandable. Hard to come in and get 3-4 carries per game and make a consistent impact

          • RIP illa

            Yeah that definitely can mess up a back. But as you know…still gotta over come that.

      • RIP illa

        Yes he can play. But yes he is still very green. Some backs are just better in different systems. Mudd’s zone blocking scheme was attacking…get after a guy and kill em in the 2nd lvl. Stoutland’s scheme doesn’t strike me as that at all. Another difference is that Reid wasn’t afraid to switch up when he ran a more zone based run play or traditional one. Brown is more of a traditional set RB as of now.

        If not a strictly traditional system, then something akin to how the 49ers ran last year, would probably help him out tremendously, as opposed to our running style. Seething where the big guys up front are getting after the D and mauling them.
        It was very telling in the Skins game, when our OL were selling out for cut blocks! That shite is too cutesy and provides no 2nd level help. Granted Shady still had a monster game, cause he’s Shady, and we have been getting away from that…but it still showed a more finesse nature in the run game rather than a dominant one.

        People like to always go back to him bouncing it to the outside. Well that’s just lazy analysis. He still does it, don’t get me wrong, but he does it less than he did last year. Before yesterday, we were seeing a bunch of stretches called. That by design requires the RB to “stretch” it to the outside until he can either get around the corner or see a cutback lane and turn it up. I generally hate stretches as NFL Ds are usually way too athletic for them to be consistently effective.

        He has been very docile and a lot of that is still on him. Yet the play calling isn’t helping all that much either, save yesterday. The run calls when he was in were a little more north and south than we’ve usually seen this season. He had 2 memorable plays yesterday. One was where he had the wide open hole and slipped. But everybody doesn’t talk about the 2 defenders that were right there in front of him 2-3 behind the LOS. And the 2nd was a run to the same side where a defender was right in the hole and Brown absolutely destroyed him. He only got like 2 yards but he still destroyed the defender w/ malicious force. Having an FB or pulling guard or TE would have turned both plays into more than what he got out of them. It would be not too difficult meld both blocking styles for the OL or run the straight zone for Shady and different w/ Bryce. And it doesn’t have to be totally a totally different look based on which back is in, save for if we lined up in the I. We could still run a single back set out of the shotgun w/ Brown in and just motion the TE.

      • JofreyRice

        eh, still have my problems with Herremans, aka the guy Howard Roseman made one of the top paid G’s in the league; another great decision for a guy I have the utmost confidence in. I’ve been pretty patient, but Herremans is not coming out of this. He’s just cooked. Nice career for a 5th rounder, but that’s all she wrote.

        I think the system is bad for Bryce. He’s not a north south guy anyway, and Kelly’s perimeter runs exacerbate that effect. He keeps taking it wider and wider until he runs out of real estate.

        • Richard Colton

          Yeah. People are going to flip in April when we go QB/OG/RB with our first three picks.

          • JofreyRice

            Probably go QB/OG/RB/QB (for when the first running QB gets injured/TE (to replace Casey’s production)/

          • Token

            Ugh. I can certainly see it happening. Id like to think he could find a usable RB later on. They also need a legitimate WR too. A lot of spots to fill on this squad.

            Dont know what defensive FAs are out there. And at this point I hate FA signings in general. But theres so many holes they have to sign some. Pretty much have to throw money at Byrd and hope he does quit on you and stays healthy.

            Right now they have no choice really but to get a QB in the first. Pencil that in. If Kelly wants to be here awhile he needs his QB and he needs to pick the right one. That was a huge key for the Reid era. Howie, hopefully not him but we all know hes going nowhere, better be willing to trade up.

            Id like to see if Barbre can play RG. I know they need a youth injection either way on that line. Peters likely is gone. Mathis isnt getting any younger. It needs addressed sooner than later. But if barbre could play some sound RG that would help. Its wishful thinking, but they need to see.

            Playing Todd is just getting a little moronic as weeks go on. Whatever QB that is in there only gets hurt by him playing.

          • JofreyRice

            I really hope they take a look at Howie. Re-read those notes, Jeff, I think you were writing quickly and might have made a couple mistakes.

            Howie re-signed Trent and Todd last year, to big money deals that make them unbenchable.

            He signed Cary Williams, who now stands as PFF’s 100th (out of 104) ranked CB’s.

            He didn’t put any plan together for S, other than Nate Allen.

            He wasted a draft pick on a backup QB that sucks at throwing.

            He spent a pick on a TE that’s caught 13 balls in 7 games.

            He brought in James Casey who hasn’t played in anything but meaningless snaps.

            He brought in Sopoaga…I think…not really sure if Sopoaga is even on the team. Did he play yesterday? Captain Zero, as Delta Dutch would say.

            His best pickups were Fletcher, who might be a decent #2 CB, and Barwin, who grades out as slightly below average in all categories. Johnson’s learning curve can be somewhat forgiven–he does have the requisite talent–but for a team so lacking in talent, they should have more young contributors from the draft. Wolff knocking himself out was cool, but he’s really not setting the league on fire. It would be unreasonably generous to claim he’s a “success”.

          • Token

            There arent many owners that would allow Howie Roseman to still have a job after week 17 concludes.

            Im know I will catch flak, because there are big Howie fans out there for whatever reason, but the guy has been a disaster. Hes a mess.

            Not only has he consistently picked the wrong players, but hes wasted a large amount of Luries money. Hopefully Lurie cares about that at least. All Lurie has to do is sit down and look at the roster, look at the roster moves, and look at how much money he basically flushed down the drain.

            Im holding out a bit of hope he will come to his senses and fire the guy. But not much.

            Lurie should be ashamed of 9 straight home losses. Just embarrassed.

            I have no doubt that if Roseman is fired they will simply hire from within. Hire from a crop that hasnt been able to put together a football team for years. Its like the Flyers.

            Thing is, im not sure a real GM candidate wants to come in and give the head coach full say over the roster.

            This next offseason is pretty huge. Id like for a competent person to be in charge of it. A bunch of dead weight that Chip kept around needs to be kicked to the side. And they need to find a bunch of actual players. And if they dont hit on this QB pick the Kelly era probably doesnt last very long.

            Ooo, and talk a DC into coming here.

          • JofreyRice

            There has been talent in the organization. Grigson, for one, but there are other guys that have passed through the personnel ranks. That’s where you have to get the guy from–personnel.

            Lurie’s got to be convinced of some “hot new trend”–that seems like his MO. Maybe hiring a guy that put in his dues and scouted is too “old school” and boring? Maybe a guy with a traditional scouting background can fake up some story about how he holds a degree in accounting, speaks Urdu, and knows a lot about weird abstract math functions, and how that qualifies him to identify NFL talent.

          • cliff henny

            doubt lurie will make a change with kelly here now. for better or worse, kelly/roseman are hitched till at least ’15.

          • Richard Colton

            Cox and Johnson both look like they can play, but you expect that from 1st round picks. Here’s my issue with Howie. Where are the late round stars now that we’re two drafts into “his” era?

            Like, if we’re defending him, who’s the guy we point to and say “Well he got ______ in the ______ round”?

          • JofreyRice

            Boykin, 4th? I mean, he’s a good slot corner–not great. Isn’t the 4th round where you get those guys?

            I think the bar’s got to be a bit higher for Johnson. If he only ends up being a serviceable right tackle, that’s a bad pick at #4 overall. He should be a top 10 tackle in the league in short order. I think anything less than that is fair to criticize. The good news is, he’s a pretty good run blocker as-is, has the requisite athetic ability, and looks like he just needs to get the feel of pass pro.

          • RIP illa

            Yes Boykin. But the list of mid round picks that have been missed on is abysmal. And that’s what makes the core of your team. And it seems like the 1st rounders we get play sub par to their position drafted. When was the last “superstar” picked instead of being passed up on??? I actually think Howie’s late round track record is pretty impressive, but that’s not gonna cut it in the league. And there was absolutely no excuse for not making moves, this past draft, outside of the Johnson pick!!! We needed more and better mid round picks and not to have wasted them on a non-dynamic TE, a high character, low producing, too light in the ass NT, and of course Barkely!!! And I hate the BS of teams weren’t willing to make moves and trades. There was plenty of movement done and if other teams didn’t want to or couldn’t reach a deal w/ us, then that says more about our GM’s negotiation skills than anything else. Why wasn’t Maclin on the block…why is Graham still here!!! It goes on.

          • Richard Colton

            Yeah. Boykin feels like a “didn’t screw it up” pick. Nickel CBs don’t make the Probowl. And, no, I don’t think you’re being unfair to want that from LJ.

          • RIP illa

            Dude I’ve been saying the exact same things since the offseason was playing out!!! I’m so confused by the Howie supporters, Lurie included, and their blind faith!

          • #7

            You nailed this one

          • RIP illa

            Would hate it as much as I hated this pat draft…but I already gave up and said “why not”! I could definitely see Howie/Chip in company doing that!

          • Richard Colton

            I never get caught up in what positions to target, unless its QB or unless its a top 10 pick. Burned too many times chasing a need I guess (I swear thats not a genital warts joke). We draft OG/C/OG in round 1,2,3 and two out of three make the probowl…great draft.

          • Dutch

            If they can not do much better than the young linemen on the bench what’s there to look forward to in April?

          • Richard Colton

            hope springs eternal

        • Dutch

          When Herremans resigned his contract he played and was paid as a Tackle, not Guard. That was the entire discussion surrounding his negotiations. Brown is a power back with straight line speed. the Eagles offense is better suited for fitness players.

          • JofreyRice

            Well, he’s paid as the #6 or #7 RT in the entire league, if you want to look at it that way.

            Brown is not a power back. He’s built like a power back, but he doesn’t play that way. Power backs look for contact, and finish runs. Brown bounces everything outside and runs out of bounds. I’d argue that he plays much smaller than he is, and is too “fitness” already.

    • #7

      Exactly right. As far as BB, he hasn’t played enough football to be great at the zone runs. The kid needs to be used to his strengths. Only thing is, we don’t have a FB on the roster. And the guy needs to keep his feet. Had wide open holes a few times and trips and falls by himself

      • RIP illa

        We have Casey. Dude’s gotta start earning his money!

        • Basscase

          Dude might as well dress up as the Hamburgler for Halloween at this rate.

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      Well..and it has been said elsewhere…Vick has helped cover up up some of the deficiencies on the line this year. And the combination of Vick and Shady helped further masks those deficiencies.

      In fairness however, your QB has to give you some help as well – Dallas just wasn’t scared of Foles passing. Didn’t even worry about it, they knew they were sitting on the short routes, makes it much easier to focus on the run.

  • jabostick

    Great new feature, by the way!

  • anon

    http://chipwagon.typepad.com/eagles/

    Chipwagon has a pretty good breakdown on Foles.

    • G_WallyHunter

      “When you are consistently that bad, there’s only one place to point the finger.”

      HA ruthless

    • cliff henny

      this a newer site? like it.

    • #7

      This made it pretty clear on how terrible Foles was

  • Bird of Prey

    I was actually happy with Williams play and the secondary scheme for the first time this year. They where jamming the receivers at the line of scrimmage for the first time all year, and it was disrupting the timing of Romo and Bryant. When they let Bryant run free, he ate them up(Which he does to any team). As for Foles, well he had his chance, was bad. Too bad though because I think we could have gotten this one. There will be plenty of QB’s available next year, so I hope Vick can play well enough to get us the division.

    PS. Curry looked good again

  • Will

    McCoy and DJax no support all game….Foles just falls flat on his face terrible passes all game, what just happened? Defense for the Eagles was Awesome…Special Teams held Harris in check! The Foles bashing begins in earnest…What I can’t understand is Foles was money against the Gaints. Foles looked like a different QB, holding the ball to long and his accuracy just was off the whole game.

    • Token

      We can all agree on how awful Foles was. All time terrible.

      In a game like that you really hope your main guys McCoy and Jackson could step it up a notch. The opposite happened. They pouted and gave up.

      • cliff henny

        not sure they gave up. but both can see how foles is playing. shady cant do much against 7 or 8 in box, and jax needs someone to get him ball. pretty sure i’d be fustrated if i was on a team and someone was playing like foles

  • greenblood20

    It seems, at this point, comparing Vick and Foles may very well be comparing what is worse: two pounds of crap dropped on your head or three?…really, what is the difference, it is still a lot of bad crap, right?

  • greenblood20

    Mariotta watch began at about 4:15 pm yesterday…

    • Eagles4Life

      No lie.

  • pjcostello

    The Eagles ran a lot of power, a lot of sweeps, to quote Coach Kelly… I would add to that, “Not enough misdirection.” It seemed like the Cowboys knew exactly what was coming and when, and were ready for it. The Eagles didn’t take advantage of the heavy blitzing and over-pursuit of the Cowboys’ defense.

    Foles and the ENTIRE offense looked off-kilter, like they couldn’t get into sync together, and Kelly did nothing to aid that. Oftentimes I hear analysts suggest when an offense is out of sync, the coach should call simple passes to let them gain confidence: Screens, short flat routes, short circle routes, and the like. Instead the Eagles never vary from their game plan in this regard, and so the offense NEVER looked comfortable the entire game. I’d love to lay it all at Foles’ feet, but that doesn’t explain the poor running by both backs, the dropped passes, the poor protection… this was a team effort in losing, as it would be a team effort in winning (had they prevailed).

    • Eagles4Life

      “the coach should call simple passes to let them gain confidence: Screens, short flat routes, short circle routes, and the like.”

      You do realize that all of the above occurred and Foles either held onto the ball too long or passed too far in front of or behind receivers, right? There were a few dropped passes, but the guy was off.

      • pjcostello

        The guy was totally off… my point was only that the other 10 guys on the field seemed to be off, too.

    • #7

      I think we can easily put a lot of this on Foles. I always say that it’s a team game, but Foles at times had the ball for 6 seconds with clean pockets..with people open….

      • pjcostello

        You’re right, I do place a great deal of the blame at Foles’ feet. Just not ALL of it. It just seemed like the entire offense was out partying the night before, and woke up bleary-eyed and hung-over.

        • EaglePete

          funny, first thing I joked was that Foles was out partying the night before and was hungover.

  • Addicted2Mula

    Neither the QBs and WR can beat this man coverage as we can tell

  • Will

    When Foles enter the Big Divisional game at home and became a hot tea bag someone forgot to add sugar. Leaves a bitter taste after all and Foles crumbled under pressure. Tough loss!

  • Steve

    Sheil – as good as your analysis is, I think your sense of humor is even better. The bit about the sideline routines – gold.