Ex-GM Ranks Foles 12th Among QBs

NFL: Philadelphia Eagles at Dallas Cowboys

Some links with Eagles angles: An ex-GM ranks every QB in the NFL; the 1991 Birds’ defense gets some love; and one more mock draft is released.

In a piece for The Sideline View, former Chicago Bears general manager Jerry Angelo ranks every quarterback in the NFL. And he’s got Nick Foles coming in at No. 12.


Angelo breaks down the list by tiers and uses a 9-point scale. The upper class (8.5 to 9.0) are his elite QBs. This category includes seven signal-callers: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers and Andrew Luck.

The next category is where Foles is listed. It's described as: "Played at a high level. Was one of the reasons – but not the reason – for his team’s success... not elite."

On Foles:

Put up top numbers and achieved the best QB rating in football. Once they made the change to him, they won. He knows how to protect the ball and get them in the end zone. Oakland got a dose of how good he is doing it.

The other QBs Angelo has ranked ahead of Foles are: Ben RoethlisbergerRussell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick and Alex Smith.

Rankings like this are tough to evaluate because we don't know the exact criteria. Is Angelo basing his rankings solely on 2013 performance? If so, Foles deserves to be higher. Is he ranking the QBs based on who he'd want if he were starting a franchise right now? I doubt it, considering the older guys he has in the top tier.

The guess is full body of work factored largely into Angelo's rankings. Considering Foles has only started 16 games, I have no issue with the No. 12 spot (although I would put him ahead of Smith).

Tip of the hat to Tommy Lawlor of Iggles Blitz for the link.

***

Statistically speaking, Andreas Shepard of Football Outsiders writes that the 1991 Eagles are the best defense of all time:

Shifting to the other side of the ball, the 1991 Eagles are the best defense for now and it’s not even close. The 1969 edition of the Purple People Eaters, who come in second, are closer to 35th place than they are to first. The Steel Curtain makes three appearances in the top-10 in a four-year span (and they won the Super Bowl in the fourth year). Having four Hall of Famers on one defense is a good thing.

...The fact that the 1991 Eagles were still able to end up in the conversation despite their albatross of an offense is perhaps their most impressive accomplishment. I say perhaps, because the 1991 Eagles have another remarkable thing to brag about –- their incredible balance. They had the No. 2 defense against both the pass and the run.

The defense was loaded, but can you name the four QBs who attempted passes for the Eagles that season? I'll include the answer down at the bottom.

***

And finally, one more mock draft is out. This one from Pete Prisco of CBSSports.com:

Louisville S Calvin Pryor: They had big problems on the back end last season. Pryor would start right away.

***

Trivia answer: Jim McMahon, Jeff Kemp, Brad Goebel and Pat Ryan.

Be respectful of our online community and contribute to an engaging conversation. We reserve the right to ban impersonators and remove comments that contain personal attacks, threats, or profanity, or are flat-out offensive. By posting here, you are permitting Philadelphia magazine and Metro Corp. to edit and republish your comment in all media.

  • sflomenb

    Andrew Luck doesn’t seem that good to me. All those interceptions…

    • peteike

      his clutch factor is through the roof. One of the best attributes of a QB that is difficult to quantify. The reason Eli has 2 and the king of the regular season has 1.

      • Brandon

        Yeah because Eli really was the sole reason the Giants won those SBs…

        • peteike

          I hate the Giants as much as you do, but its not like he was a non factor either. That throw to Manningham was clutch. The other was as lucky as you get. But luck is where preparation meets opportunity.

        • peteike

          hilarious with the upvotes. If you can give Wilson credit for this past super bowl, you have to give same to Eli. The team matters more of course but ya, Its more fun to hate on Eli I get it. I used to be same way in my 20s, would have never typed such a thing. Now that Im older its easier to be objective.

          • Adam

            What credit is Wilson getting? I don’t think anyone has said the Wilson’s was the reason the Seahawks won that Super Bowl.

          • peteike

            Hes getting lots of praise, not as a sole factor for winning the game but he did what was needed. Heady play and not making mistakes helped them win etc. I bet you wont find many fans in NFC West who will give him any credit.

          • Clamdigger

            I don’t give Wilson any credit for the SB win. He just had to show up.

        • anon

          he had something stupid like 14 4th quarter comebacks that year — league record or close thereto

        • dislikedisqus

          If there is a list of 10 most important passes in NFL history, Eli has 2 of them, the one to Tyree and the one to Manningham.

  • GEAGLE

    Cam,newton? Lol

    Can’t wait to compare what FOles does when he has 35games of experience with what Cam did this year

    • BrickSquadMonopoly

      Ima have to agree with you on Cam. And ill add Kaep to that list as well. The jury is still out on these young guys that have amazing D’s to lean on. Russell Wilson? Im sold hes a born leader.

      • GEAGLE

        Stop responding to someone who won’t engage you in a discussion, nor read your response…but thanks

        • Brandon Boykin, OLB

          … But you did bo- … Eh. Nevermind.

        • BrickSquadMonopoly

          That hurts geags ill get over it tho. Somehow I don’t think ill ever be half the Eagles fan you are. Nothing could keep me on the computer for that long.

  • Brandon

    Foles is a top 6 QB. Says me (just as much credibility as that crap GM).

  • jabostick

    These ‘elite’ arguments are always kind of pointless but they’re intriguing for some reason. I don’t really get the Newton, Big Ben, and Alex Smith rankings and, given the short description he gives for Foles, seems like he’s short-changed a bit

    • dislikedisqus

      Big Ben has more rings than anyone on that list but Brady.

      • ELIte?

        …and Eli has more rings than Peyton. doesn’t mean he’s the better of the 2.

        • dislikedisqus

          But it means he’s better than Cam Newton or Alex Smith.

  • peteike

    Foles is Big Ben light. At this stage anyway, less escapability, less arm. If only they can build a team around him like the Steelers did. Oh and keep him away from bathrooms at parties. We all try to find comparable players to try to match them up with, kind of human nature. We do it with bands all the time, they sound like so and so. Best I could come up with anyway. The future is bright, a coach and QB and playoffs in first year. Its a celebration bi…..

    • Coatesvillain

      That’s a pretty bad comparison. Take away Big Ben’s escapability and you have a completely different QB.

      • peteike

        How so? Take away escapability and they are even more alike imo. I mean its really small details comparing, minus athletic ability and system they play in.

        • Coatesvillain

          Ben’s escapability is what makes him who he is. That’s practically what the Steelers offense was built around when Arians was the offensive coordinator. He holds onto the ball so they gave him longer developing routes to work with.

          Foles gets rid of the ball faster. Is more of a prototypical pocket passer. Doesn’t take the hits Ben does. Just plays the game differently.

    • Adam

      What? You can make any QB a “light” version of any QB if you remove their best attributes. Heck, I’m a Peyton Manning light without the ability to dissect defenses and make audibles.

      • Richard Colton

        You also lack his commercial appeal, as long as we’re being nit-picky. What you do have is his folksy charm. Then again, most Canadians probably do.

        • G_WallyHunter

          Eh man to that

        • Maggie

          I don’t know about that, RC. I used to know an American trucker, from Washington state, who ended almost every sentence with “hunh”, instead of “eh”. He also frequently used the word “bodacious”. Sounded quite folksy to me or maybe he just copied his North Carolina inlaws. ;~P

          • Andy124

            “bodacious” sounds very California-surfer to me.

      • peteike

        ya true, kind of dumb really and it bothers me sometimes when people do it with bands. Im just bored today. That being said, Ben is more than just his escapability. Arm strenth is a bit irrelevant in a lot of cases.

  • Kev_H

    Twelfth is pretty high for a national guy ranking guys and looking at numbers. I think Foles is better than several of the young guys ranked ahead of him. Guys like Luck and Newton have played with entire coaching staffs and systems tailored perfectly for them while Foles has played under two coaches and systems without even an offseason as a starter. I expect him to improve and leave some of those guys behind in the 2015 conversation.

  • Andy124

    Yeah, Newton’s ranking there is a total joke, and I like Newton. That’s the only one that really jumped out at me. I could nitpick the rest, like I think Foles should be ahead of Smith, but it’s pretty reasonable.

    • GEAGLE

      Lol Alex smith…dude threw screens all year. His longest passes prob traveled 3yards threw the air and Charles took em to the house…Alex smith…hahahah this GM is a genius

  • Tautalatasi Jr.

    That’s why you are “former Chicago Bears general manager Jerry Angelo”

  • Erdessy

    Trivia question is wrong. Cunningham attempted 4 passes before he was hurt.

    • Richard Colton

      Bryce M-Fing Paup

  • Richard Colton

    Cause if there’s one thing Bear’s GMs understand, its Quarterbacks

    • NickS1

      Thought the same thing, then saw Scam Newton and Philip Rivers in that top category and moved on.

      • dislikedisqus

        His QB rating is quite a bit lower than Foles, due mainly to all the INT’s.

      • ohitsdom

        Philip Rivers played unbelievable this year so I have no problem seeing his name there, but Cam? Come on.

        • NickS1

          Yeah, and Rivers blew last year. He’s top 10 for me, but not “Elite” (at least in my loose definition)

    • BleedGreenJames

      I thought he’d sneak Cutler in there somehow with that genius trade he pulled off.

      • ohitsdom

        He was actually quite harsh on Cutler. “…lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses”.

  • JofreyRice

    He undoubtedly should be higher than Alex Smith, but even #12 is pretty damn good for a guy in his second year, who should improve with experience.

    His natural ability to create big plays when buying time is something you can’t teach. Recognition of coverage, understanding the routes, and setting protections are all coachable, and should improve next year, since we’ve got a really good coach.

    • gwifi404

      What jumped out to me the most, is that Foles never had a FULL off season with first team reps unlike these other QBs that were mentioned on this list. Most of his actual playing time came during the season. Imagine if we found a bigger slot receiver in the earlier rounds, and resigned Maclin and Cooper. As GM i would trade Desean for an extra first round pick. Just to make sure i found a Safety and bigger possession WR in round 1. Then focused on Defense through the rest of the draft. Trade up for a OLB in RD2. These 3 positions would instantly improve the Eagles. Plus cap room to bring in a OLB and Safety in Free Agency for depth.

  • Dirt

    Where’s Tony Romo? LLH

  • Dr Rick

    Pryor is listed at 6’2″, 208#, with 4.6 speed. By all reports he can hit but I am skeptical that he has NFL speed for coverage.

    • Clamdigger

      The way safeties are used and with the types of players they typically cover man-to-man, straight-line speed isn’t nearly as important as a CB. You need decent speed, but more importantly you need size, fluid hips and great awareness.

    • pjcostello

      Agree with Clamdigger, and will add: He needs the ability to diagnose a play, be instinctive and be QUICK — not necessarily fast. The ability to figure out what the offense is doing and react to be in the correct position on time is invaluable.

  • Jake

    How the hell is Foles not number 2 or 3 if it is based on this year?

    • Maggie

      One, he didn’t play the whole year and two, look who’s doing the ranking.

      • Andy124

        3) It’s not based on just this year.

        But I like #2 the best.

  • Rick H

    I am a huge Foles fan!!! However it is reasonable to say you have to have at least 2 quality years to be put in the upper echelon of QB’s. 12 is fine for now I want the focus to be off him anyway.
    The Eagles have to upgrade an already talented offense to a “special” offense with a very talented slot receiver, a versatile running back that is fast/ quick and dangerous. Plus I would not rule out another top tight end especially with the direction the NFL is headed. I would pick Ebron in a half second at #22..
    JACKSON/COOPER/ERTZ/EBRON and a mid round draft WR with speed. The running back/slot could be Thomas from Oregon or L. James from the 49ers. It has been stated that the 49ers fully plan to unload James if they can ( see Rotoworld). He doesn’t fit their offense but he fits Chip’s offense. .

    • NickS1

      When you say a “versatile running back that is fast/ quick and dangerous”….. does Shady not do it for you?

      • Rick H

        Shady is incredible and does do it for me as the # 1 running back in the NFL however we need that 3rd down back/ someone that get the Eagles a big first down plus when we need it. My feeling the last 2 years has been when Shady needs a breather the Eagles offense dropped off significantly. Plus every team the Eagles played loved watching Shady go to the sidelines and adjusted their defense accordingly.

        • NickS1

          I just had to make sure because you basically described Shady in your description, so I was little thrown off.

  • UKEagle99

    Trivia: Surely Cunningham attempted a pass, he played a qtr at GB…

    • UKEagle99

      Yup, thought so. 1 of 4 for 19 yards.

  • George

    I laughed. Hes ATleast top10. certainly better than $cam, kapernick, ALEX SMITH, ben, and rivers

    • Trey Warner

      lol he’s had one great year…let’s take it slow

  • GEAGLE

    TJ Ward lovers….we have a problem.

    New Browns GM was asked about signing Ward and Mack to extensions. He predictably side stepped answering it…
    ..
    I wrote about how Mack being an elite young center works in our favor because banner could possibly use the Franchise tag on Alex Mack instead of Ward..

    Well I was wrong on a few levels lol. Banner was fired, and I found put that under the Label agreement, if you Tag a center, you have to pay him the average of the top 5 LTs in the NFL. basically when it comes to the franchise tag, ALL linemen are bunched together…so to Tag a center you have to pay him as an ELITE LT for a year, and that’s just not going to happen…so Ward is a significantly more likely target to be tagged.

    One thing working in our favor is the Browns are negotiating to give Joe Haden an extension that most likely makes him the highest paid CB in the be NFL. Funny how they value getting an extension done with Haden so he doesn’t have to go into the year worrying about his future. Why didn’t they extend the same courtesy to Ward. how did it get to the point where he is 4′weeks from having the right to sign with WHOeverr he choses.. They valued Haden enough to not make him enter the season without a new deal, so maybe they really don’t plan on Bringing Ward backs,who knows…it also works in our favor that I can’t see THAT owner, having a secondary with the highest paid CB and one of the highest paid safeties…
    ..
    I could understand letting it get to this point with Ward if you are in salary cap hell and you have to cut players to clear up money before you can sign Ward…but Browns have a healthy Cap, so why didn’t they get an extension done with Ward 8 months ago? Dqwell Jackson who I adore carries a cap hit of almost 10mil this year. They will try to restructure or ask him to take a payout just(even tho they don’t need the cap space)…wonder if This pisses Jackson off and they end up cutting him.
    ..
    Cleveland has 40mil in cap space so they can keep whoever they want…which is why I find it so odd that Ward doesn’t have an extension. tagging Ward costs almost 9mil
    ..
    I still have my eye on OLB Jabaal Sheard. No idea what kind of year he had, but I thought there was a chance browns would cut him last year! that didn’t happen, Mingo will be a year older…hopefully Sheard hits the market…Depending on how he played in 2013, I’d consider trading for him…
    ..

    • anon

      How didn’t they do the same with Ward? They just fired their whole FO!! They have tons of cap space i hear. I think Banner was going to f things up over there so he got fired. No way a defensive coach abides by letting all the defensive starts walk, ESPECIALLY since they have a huge perception problem with the Browns that i think the owner is trying to fix.

      Heard he’s spent $50mm just firing people over the last couple of weeks. The like is for admitting that you’re wrong.

  • anon

    If pats let go of Talib think we give a look? Can’t believe they’d ever let him go considering the state of their secondary before him…

    • NickS1

      I’d love a corner like Talib. Do you release Fletcher to bring him in? I’m not opposed, just posing a question that I think involves the most logical shuffling to bring him in. I also think that bringing him in alters any spending at safety, with a strong case for a Clemons/Whitner/Jenkins paired with a resigned Allen, a S in rd 4-5 and a UDFA. A shutdown corner like him does a lot for the coverage schemes.

      • GEAGLE

        Fletcher and Cary will be our starting CBs…Patriots will lose Talib to the deadskins

        • NickS1

          I agree. Just putting out there what would be a possibility to happen should we try to bring him in. Obv would have to make room, but, I agree that it’s prob going to be CW/Fletch as our guys next year. Who knows, though? Stranger things have happened.

          • GEAGLE

            I love Talibs game! but it’s not a wise way to allocate our resources..
            ..
            IMO the ONLY starting caliber additions we need are Safety and OLB….CB,ILB,DL need depth additions. Young athletes who can provide depth, while also having some level of potential to grow into the eventual replacements for our starting Veterans….A guy Like Roc Charmicheal, will prob be better next year, and we can probably get away with him filling in on a limited short term basis…but his potential is limited…we are much better off, if we can add a young player, who will provide the emergency depth that Roc provides, but who still ATleast has a chance to be developed into an eventual starting replacement…so while we can get away with a guy like Roc on our bench. We can get more value out of his roster spot…

            This is a draft class where we really need to add extra draft picks, because we basically have room for young backups at every position. Tom LAwlor also made some GREAT POINTS about this draft class having an insane amount of under classmen, which is why it’s such a deep class, but this also means we could see a watered down draft class next year..

            We pick 6 times in the first 5 rounds. Would love to see us draft back a few times, maybe flip BG for a pick and end up with a ton of picks to start stocking our depth across the board with young athletes..something like:
            ..
            Trade to #30 from 22, adding an extra 3rd and a 4th..Trade BG for a 5th.. End up with:
            ..
            #30
            2nd round
            3rd round
            3rd round
            4th round
            4th round
            5th round
            5th round
            5th round
            …l
            That could provide a really nice influx of young athletic talent

          • Richard Colton

            Yeah – I love it. But, no one is giving us anything for BG. Best we can hope for is a square-peg for square-peg swap.

            As far as Roc Carmichael goes – I’m done with him. I’m willing to take the chance that he goes somewhere else and turns into a star, same way I risk lightning strikes every time I walk outside.

          • NickS1

            I’m fine with the square peg swap if we’re getting a 3-4 OLB for bench depth. A real 3-4 OLB, not a BG OLB.

    • KobraKai7474

      Belichick does not seem to put great value on corners, and… well… he has, for the most part, been proven right. Yes, his lack of defense has hurt him in the playoffs in recent years, but his record over the past 10+ years in the regular season AND the playoffs makes it hard to disagree too strongly.
      Point being, I could definitely see him letting Talib go and then grabbing a few more warm bodies off the street and somehow making it work good enough for another 12-win season and first round bye, while at the same time, the team that does pay market value for Talib ends up regretting it.

  • KobraKai7474

    While I concur that the Eagles defense of 1991 was one of the best ever… and, most defintely in the argument for GOAT… I also think that the article referenced above (and plenty of other “experts”) might be giving them a bit too much credit. In particular, they point on the Eagles’ horrendous offense that season as a reason why the defense should be so highly ranked. However, if you look at it a bit deeper, that offense HELPED rather than hurt their defensive numbers. The simple fact was that, due to a complete lack of offense, every game was close and the Eagles defense had to play hard for 60 minutes every single game, win or loss. There was never a point where a game got to “garbage time” where the Eagles were way ahead and could go to a prevent defense and give up a bunch of yards in the fourth quarter while running out the clock. The fact that the other teams on the list had, at minimum, semi-competent offenses (and often darn good ones) meant that they had at least a few games where they were running out the clock in the 4th quarter and purposely allowing the other team to gain some yards as long as the clock kept ticking.

  • Jerry Pomroy

    I think I have two problems with Angelo’s rankings.

    1) Some of the names he has listed in the “elite” category. There is no way in hell that Newton & Rivers belong in the elite category with Peyton, Brady, Rodgers & Brees. These 4 have the resume history to fully support an elite status & fall into a class all their own when considering the active QBs. Newton, Rivers & even Luck fall into the next tier.

    2) Given the rankings are his opinion, I’m sure we’d all have lists that follow a different order. However, I’d have Foles 1-2 spots higher than 12 & that’s only because of his smaller sample size than some of the other up and coming youngsters with which to rank him. If Foles had closer to 24 starts under him and performed at least remotely close to his performance this past year, he leap frogs a good 4-5 spots for sure.