All-22: Foles, the Deep Ball And the Offense

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Nick Foles’ response struck the right tone.

He knew he had gotten a little lucky. But throwing a 55-yard touchdown in the NFL, regardless of circumstances, is not easy. So he was not about to apologize.




"I need to throw it a little further, but it just so happened that the ball popped up the way it did, and that happens in sports," Foles said when asked to describe the 55-yard touchdown pass to DeSean Jackson against the Packers. "That happens all the time. Sometimes it doesn’t work out for you. That time it did. And I was very thankful it did."

Here's the pre-snap look.

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It's one the Eagles are all too familiar with. Man coverage on the outside with a single high safety. The slot corner to Foles' left is going to blitz.

Jackson is running a deep post. He's got to get past the cornerback (which should be no problem), but Foles has to keep an eye on the deep safety as well.

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Jackson has the cornerback beat, and the safety isn't in position to make a play if the ball's out in front.

"Just went through my read and out of the corner of my eye, I saw DeSean shooting over the safety," Foles said. "So I was trying to work the pocket. They brought a nickel blitz off the side so I stepped up and it was a little bit different weather so I tried to get it out there for him."

The ball ended up being underthrown, and both defensive backs had a chance to make a play.

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Both Foles and Chip Kelly said the wind played a factor. And Foles admitted he needs to adjust to the cold down the stretch this season.

"I think y’all know I’m from the south, went to Arizona, spent a year at Michigan State, so I’m acclimating to it," he said. "I’m getting more used to throwing in the cold weather. When you have cold weather and wind, it makes it a little bit more difficult and you’ve just gotta make sure the spiral’s tight and you’ve gotta judge the wind cause sometimes it’s hard to get that deep ball out there when there’s a gust of wind coming at you in the cold weather.

"So it’s really just getting used to it. But I feel like as I’ve been in Philadelphia, I’ve gotten better and better at throwing in the cold weather. And when you get good at throwing in the cold weather, it makes it a lot easier to throw in warmer weather. So it’s just something I’ll continue to get acclimated to."

Overall, Foles' numbers on deep throws are outrageous. Per Pro Football Focus, he's completing 56.5 percent of his passes that travel 20+ yards from the line of scrimmage. That's third in the league. And perhaps more importantly, he's been willing to chuck it downfield - 16.9 percent of Foles' attempts have traveled 20+ yards from the line of scrimmage. That's second-highest in the league.

With teams continually gearing up to stop the Eagles' run game, the offense has to make defenses pay with big plays over the top. And so far, they've done that with 50 pass plays of 20+ yards, tops in the league.

***

Did you ever play the game '500' as a kid? There's one thrower who launches the ball into the air to crowd of four or five catchers. And basically, everyone fights for the ball as it comes down.

I'm guessing Riley Cooper was probably pretty good at that game.

Take a look at the 45-yard touchdown from the third quarter. As the play develops, the throw here would usually be deep in between the cornerback, who has help to the inside, and the safety.

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But Foles decided to try something different.

"I think on the second one he saw him beat the safety, but he knew where the safety was," Kelly said. "He was trying to lead him on the other side of the safety, which normally doesn't happen.

"I think Nick was trying to get it onto the other side of the safety even though he beat him because with the ball in the air that long, if the DB was going to be able to make a play on it, if he can kind of offset the throw on the DB, then Riley would have a shot at it. Riley made a great adjustment to the football."

The safety had to turn and run and had his back to the line of scrimmage when the ball was in the air. So did the cornerback to that side. Cooper, however, did an outstanding job of tracking it.

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The above shot shows just how strange a path Cooper took to the ball. For all the talk about good route-running in the NFL, sometimes it's as simple as: Find ball, get ball.

"Riley is really, really good at tracking the ball," Kelly said. "He was an outstanding baseball player. Kind of when you throw it up, he can make adjustments on it. You haven't seen that much when he ran a post route and then had to make a hard right turn."

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Take a look at where he eventually catches it, compared to where he was in the first frame when Foles was just getting ready to throw it.

"He's got a great feel for the ball," Foles said. "He's got a baseball player background. And he showed that on that deep ball where I threw it to him. That's not a traditional throw. You usually don't throw that ball there. But we have some receivers that can really track the ball downfield so it makes it easier on me. If I throw a ball that's not normally thrown there to where he can go around the safety and make a play, that's huge. …Tracking a ball that's going like that is tough, but he's doing a great job."

***

Lane Johnson tested out as the most athletic offensive lineman in last year's draft and perhaps the most athletic since prospects started attending the Combine in Indy.

But even he has some trouble blocking defensive backs on the perimeter.

On the first drive, the Eagles showed a look they've used on multiple occasions this season with Johnson split out wide.

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Johnson's goal here is to get between the defensive back and the boundary so that Jackson can take the screen to the sideline.

But he's in poor position when it's time to make the block.

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That allows the defender to get outside and stop Jackson after a 1-yard gain.

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Johnson undoubtedly got a talking-to from the coaches after this play. So when the Eagles went back to it in the second half, he made sure he did things differently.

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The problem? This time, the defensive back slipped inside.

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"I’m taught to go outside so if they come inside real quick, it’s kind of hard to go back and block ‘em like that," Johnson said. "They are quick guys out there so it’s tough to move out there in space, but DeSean made a good play on the sideline."

To be clear, of the two plays above, the second one is clearly the preference. Try to execute the block the way it's designed. If the defender slips inside, he's still chasing Jackson from behind, which is a scenario the Eagles will take on most occasions.

***

We went over a couple plays from the Eagles' final 9 minute, 32-second drive in yesterday's post. But one play we didn't show was the lone pass: a screen to James Casey.

At first glance, this looked like the perfect call on 3rd-and-7.

"They called it at a perfect time," Casey said. "They were blitzing off the edge so it’s perfect to run a screen into a blitz like that where you kind of just bluff and get it out."

Casey did an excellent job of waiting, acting like he was staying in to block and then releasing. And Foles did an outstanding job of waiting for the rush to get to him before letting go of the ball. He actually ended up taking a hit on the play.

Birds 24/7 was able to obtain exclusive Kelly commentary (not really!) from this play. So we'll let him take you through the screen shots.

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"Perfection! This'll get 'em to stop nagging me about Casey's playing time. Take it to the sideline, Big James, and we can warm up the bus. Cheese curds for everyone!"

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"Hey, Simms, you can take this bottom-five offense and shove it up your *&%! Once Kelce takes care of the linebacker, we've got a huge gainer and are back to .500. This may even make the reporters forget about that botched challenge earlier!"

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"Wait, what? What are you doin', Casey? Why in the name of Ricky Santos are you cutting it inside? Play with emotion, don't let emotion play with you... Play with emotion, don't let emotion play with you..."

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"What's that? He broke the tackle? He broke the tackle! I guess we don't have to revoke his smoothie privileges. But he's still sitting between Cary and Coop on the way home."

As for Casey, here's what he said about the play (Note: These are actual quotes.).

"I should have went outside and I’d have got a lot more yards, but I was just so focused on getting that first down because it was 3rd-and-7. And you’re trained as a tight end always to catch the ball and get straight upfield. Get upfield, get upfield, get upfield. And you never know what’s coming behind you. But I probably should have went outside and got a lot more. But still got the first down so I kind of redeemed myself."

If you remember, Casey hopped up like a mad man and sprinted to the sideline after the whistle blew on the play. I asked him what the deal was.

"My work here was done," he said, drawing a laugh from Cary Williams at the next locker over. "First down."

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  • Will

    “Overall, Foles’ numbers on deep throws are outrageous. Per Pro Football Focus,
    he’s completing 56.5 percent of his passes that travel 20+ yards from
    the line of scrimmage. That’s third in the league. And perhaps more
    importantly, he’s been willing to chuck it downfield – 16.9 percent of
    Foles’ attempts have traveled 20+ yards from the line of scrimmage.
    That’s second-highest in the league.” per Sheil, article above…

    • knighn

      redacted

      • Will

        Thanks…

  • Will

    Outstanding work Sheil… Loved the ad lib commentary from CK…LOL…

  • knighn

    I though Foles couldn’t throw the deep ball? The Vick die-hards and the Foles haters (usually the same people) all assured us, repeatedly, that Foles cannot throw the deep ball.

    • brent

      he can throw the deep ball, just not well

      • Will

        Foles has shown definite improvement on the deep pass…The GreenBay game was on average 13 mile an hour swirling winds…not an easy task to throw into deep…Needless to say the FG kicker’s had fun missing all day on Gimme’s…

        • anon

          Hopefully he’s unlike Peyton and can actually play in the cold — good tihng we have a good run game.

          I like that he’s throwing the ball under 30 times a game instead of 40/50 — lots of short safe throws.

        • jabostick

          I also would guess that it takes some time to get used to throwing to Desean too (and especially given the speed diff between him and the other WRs) which is maybe why he seemed to underthrow/have a weaker arm earlier on.

          • Will

            yeah I too considered that took Vick a while throw one speed for DJax then slower for all the other WR…good point…

          • theycallmerob

            I think most QBs would underthrow desean….Vick was one of the few who could overthrow him, or at least hit him in stride. If he was behind a DB, that was it.
            One of my favorite lasting images was the opening play in the MNF game against the red potatoes in ’10.
            DJ will never be a great WR1 (big hands guy is his perfect counterpart, why the Coop thing is working so well right now). But that 1 unique skill that he does better than anyone makes him a must-have-on-the-field player in almost every scenario

          • aub32

            I think he’s shown this season that he is more than just speed. He also can run some good routes and has some pretty decent hands. There are plenty of guys in the league with speed, but they all aren’t nearly the threat that DeSean has been.

          • theycallmerob

            I’m not disagreeing with that. But I still don’t consider him a true WR1. without a competent counterpart, he can be contained

          • aub32

            That can be said about any WR outside of Megatron and maybe AJ Green. Look at how Dez got shut down the other night. Wallace gets shut down. VJac got shut down. Even Megatron gets “limited when Reggie Bush came out of the line up. No WR can it on their own.

          • DeSeanIsTheMan

            Don’t quit yer day job, laddie.

          • theycallmerob

            Uh, thanks pardner. New in town? Not many folks get insulted by calling Desean fast

          • DeSeanIsTheMan

            No, sheriff. I have been here a while. I just think denying he is a #1 shows your aptitude likely lies somewhere besides these parts.

          • theycallmerob

            Oooooh tough guy.

    • Andy124

      You’re going to be missing DJax also if Foles has to take over for any reason. Why play DJax Deep when Foles can’t connect with him beyond 10 yds…….. notice how Bowe wasn’t a factor against the Eagles as Smith threw balls no more than 8 yds with the exception ot 2 to Avery. And Bowe is and has always been a guy who can stretch defenses.

      The best option would be barkley, bum shoulder and all over Foles.
      —————————
      At any point Foles has to take over this offense, it’s shut down. Without the threat of Vick pulling that ball and running there is no reason as a defense not to focus in on Shady every time the ball is transferred from the Center to the Quarterback.

      DJax in that instance is negated as a deep threat and the receipt to beat the eagles is stacking the box and man to man coverage.
      —————————–
      Foles is that bad, you guys just have not gotten an extended look. He was in preseason under a rush no different than the fragile kid that wilted during his 6 game stretch in 2012. This game is to fast for him. Cleveland had the same scenario with Weedon. They thought he showed something last year he obviously doesn’t possess in 2013. They knew they weren’t fooling anyone and anyone that wants to take a flier on Weedon can, he’s available for the right draft pick.

      The Eagles had better follow that chain or thinking with Nick Foles.

      Get something before his shelf life expires……..
      —————————
      If anyone wants to see a hint of what DJ will be under Foles, they should look at how Bowe has performed under A. Smith..

      • Will

        What games are you watching? or just being sarcastic?

        • knighn

          He’s quoting Dutch.

          • Will

            Ah…that’s rough who wrote that?…lol…hey Dutch who knew…lol..

          • OregonDucker

            This pic is just so, so, amazing and unbelievable. I am in awe of this game and its twists and turns. It’s like a Dickens’ novel.

          • Will

            I wish Foles played the whole game to try to break the record!

          • Max Lightfoot

            I believe that space shuttle crews can spot his cleats from outer space. If Nick wears yellow sox during duck season he’s a dead man.

          • Joe from Easton

            I haven’t seen Dutch in weeks.

          • knighn

            He popped in briefly after the Raiders game. Then his keyboard jumped to life, broke his fingers and stated, “I refuse to let you type this B.S!”
            And that story is completely true… at least as true as most of the stuff that Dutch posts.

          • Will

            Knighn your as Brutal as the Eagle’s Defense keep it up…LMAO

          • knighn

            I’m not that bad. I do kid, but I never call names.

            I’ve said it repeatedly to Dutch and about him: the most frustrating thing about him is that he will post some clearly well-thought analysis and will follow it up with some absolute nonsense that has very little to do with reality. And then when you counter him with the actual facts, he will change the subject and claim that you’re actually arguing about something else. I actually have come to the conclusion, repeatedly, that he is actually a very committed Troll. Although, he’s clearly wavered on his commitment lately.

          • Will

            Funny how player’s respond and as a Fan you end up eating your words. I myself have been overly harsh on Nate Allen and he as stepped up his game in run Defense and just hustle out there…did try to find a cool pic but none to be found for the GreenBay game…

          • Will

            I did find this…think this was a bubble screen Nate foiled at the LOS…

          • Will

            Nate is in a contract year so I wonder if that’s why he’s up his play. Still not the Hard hitting, tackling machine, ball hawk I want to see back there…

          • BlindChow

            “Hey look! It’s James Jones! Everyone hug him!”

          • Will

            LMAO good one BlindChow!

          • knighn

            I would have been happy to eat my words about Vick (which, to be fair, were not that harsh). That would have meant that he stayed healthy and played at a consistently high level (without turnovers). That would have meant more wins for the Eagles… but we just didn’t get to see that out of Vick.

          • Will

            Love MV#7 but that’s his downfall, and Foles is looking like he grasps the passing game at a higher level than Vick. By that Foles is getting the ball out and beating the blitz..with less mobility for that matter..

          • nicksaenz1

            In fairness to you, Nate Allen is making everyone eat a few of their own words.

          • Andy124

            The Nate hate in the post-San Diego thread was intense and pretty universal.

          • Richard Colton

            yeah, but most of us will admit when we we’re wrong about a player.

            edit: ok, looks like at least 4 of us refuse to admit when we’re wrong. Here are some of mine (this year only): Casey, Sopoanga, B. Fletcher

          • cliff henny

            still need to upgrade. that position needs to make more impact plays. credit to coaching staff, they’ve made him servicable.

          • Richard Colton

            yeah. I’m not suggesting our problems at safety are over, or even that we can live with Wolff & Allen for the next thee years. Just saying we all have opinions on guys and sometimes their play proves us wrong. That’s OK, bc hardly any of us try to speak from a position of authority or claim to know 100%.

            Well a few of us do…and it’s fun to put them in their place.

          • GEAGLE

            You aren’t wrong about Casey…his time will come even if it’s not this year…I really don’t think he is getting cut.
            ..
            I was wrong about Nate, 4-3under, Brandon Graham keeping Cole on the bench..so many people can’t wait to throw stuff in my face, it must suck to see me constantly man up n beat them to the punch :)

          • GEAGLE

            I been eating mine for weeks now thanks to Nate

          • reb

            I, too, have been pretty hard on old Nate Allen. He has stepped it up to my pleasant surprise. Guaranteed pretty much to hear one “good tackle by Nate Allen” per game now.

          • Will

            Yeah he tackles very well and a lot have been solo where we coulda been burnt bad….

          • theycallmerob

            I thought that at first, but 1000+ posts….heckuva commitment. Figured he was just like most folks I know…irrational and illogical.
            I constantly get on my principal’s back to hire a teacher (aside from standard English) to teach skills like debate, logic, and fact-checking to our 12th graders. Best skill you can instill: the ability to research one’s point and defend it with reason rather than emotion.

          • Andy124

            It’s not all Dutch.

          • knighn

            Really?! That looks pretty Dutch to me. God, I hope that the good people of Holland never come across this website. They’re going to think we hate them.

      • theycallmerob

        Do you keep these on a wall somewhere?

        • Andy124

          lol. I wasn’t even looking for those. I was told that people were griping about Vick even after the San Diego game so I just typed San Diego in the search bar. One of the results was from after the KC game which is where these are from. Last one is from aub. Rest are Dutch.

          • nicksaenz1

            I. F’N. LOVE. THIS.

          • cliff henny

            foles’ play must be killing dutch

          • nicksaenz1

            Dutch is dead, lying in a ditch somewhere. It is suspected that Foles committed the crime. The murder weapon was Foles’ play, with the final blow that ended him coming on a deep ball to Jackson, with a follow up to Cooper for good measure.

          • Richard Colton

            I hope not. He was 50% of the reason I read the comments. I loved when someone new would try to argue with him, and JR would pull him aside and calmly “explain” the Dutchman.

          • Adam

            Dang you got down voted hard for this. Didn’t realize the Dutch fans were out in these numbers. Heck, I’m gonna down vote you just to fit in.

          • Richard Colton

            hahaha. its not that. I’ve upset someone in another thread who uses 3 different login names to down vote all my comments.

          • Max Lightfoot

            I’m not sure life on this site is even possible without some Dutch commentary – gotta have some, man!

          • Andy124

            The murder weapon was Foles’ play.

            Nice.

      • EaglePete

        ha, awesome, too funny. To be fair, we all have some couch GM in us. The conviction in some comments though, as if its written in stone, is what gets hard to digest.

      • Wilbert31

        Great job! Pull some more from #7. If you hit the right day, you can find 8 or 9 in the same article. Foles is a backup. Foles will never be more than a backup. He can’t throw downfield. He’s an adequate backup at best. His first big game and he pees down his leg….

        • cliff henny

          heck, i’ve said that! today, have to say he’s above game manager, but not yet at hand over keys level. definitely capable. give him another yr and get him weapons and olb early in draft.

          • nicksaenz1

            If you’re willing to give him another year to build thru draft with him at QB, isn’t that by default “hand-over-the-keys” worthy?

          • cliff henny

            yes and no. maybe foles will just be a really good servicable qb in a qb friendly offense that has a ton of weapons, great, who cares if it turns w’s!

          • nicksaenz1

            If he goes beyond 2014 will you concede it’s handing the keys over?

          • Septhinox

            Umm…He’s already shown that he IS a serviceable QB. The question is now is he a franchise QB.

            Keep up…

        • Andy124

          Thanks. I don’t want to go overboard though. I might peruse some old threads next time we start arguing over what criticisms are fair and what aren’t.

          • Richard Colton

            or the new one…Foles has been really good, but it’s just luck.

            Impossible to disprove – Tom Brady’s the luckiest man on the planet.

          • pjcostello

            Well… look at Giselle… LOL

          • cliff henny

            before tampa game, most of the criticim was fair. if someone is still stating he hasnt shown improvement, they’re off. just as fair is if people like what they see but still holding reservation till signature win (ie come from behind win at chicago or detriot was playoff implications, oh boy, that’d be huge) or just bigger sample set. i can flip flop on foles during a game, heck play to play. but he has earned rest of the yr, no doubt

          • theycallmerob

            The fact that Eli has 2 rings and somehow out-lucked Brady must mean that the Manning Family is the only thing keeping Brady from ruling the world. We should harvest some of Archie’s gold to fight off aliens one day

          • GEAGLE

            Thank you Andy..you were right! This thread is comedic GOLD!!!
            ..
            This week is a huge opportunity to really turn the corner and put The idiots that we have to endure to RIP…Dutches coffin will be shaped like a green #9

          • Andy124

            Glad I steered you right.

      • nicksaenz1

        If you go through some from the last few weeks, you can get some good ones of #7 saying how the “Football Gods” are on Foles’ side. Those are fantastic backhanded compliments.

        • Andy124

          Hey, I got a new one from this very thread. It’s been added.

          • nicksaenz1

            Haha I almost responded to the guy but the post was so dumb I didn’t want to dignify it.

          • GEAGLE

            This is just glorious

    • theycallmerob

      It’s one component of QBing, however, that can be improved. Arm strength can be gained, but some of his intangibles cannot be developed. Ideal

      • Token

        Foles tends to hurt his arm strength with his mechanics at times. It can be corrected. And I think as you get more confident in each throw and decision the throws get better to.

        As it is right now, I think his arm is good enough. People tend to think the NFL has a bunch of rocket arms, thats not true at all.

    • jabostick

      In my own defense (and I considered myself a Foles skeptic, not a hater), it seemed like all he did last year was check down (the reasons for that could be many, I realize), and his deep passes seemed to always come up short. On top of that, scouting reports (for those of us who don’t have time/access to a ton of college games) wasn’t super favourable on his arm either.

      Having said that, he’s earning his rep as a deep passer. I also love that he seems super confident in his decisions to go deep too.

      • knighn

        I’m still skeptical, but had seen enough last year to want to see more. He still has a lot to prove (even after that 7 TD game) and I hope he will do well in making his case.
        One of the points that many had made is that “Arm Strength is somewhat over rated”. Google “weakest arm in NFL” and see how many articles on Peyton Manning come up. These guys are NFL Quarterbacks, not MLB Pitchers.

        • aub32

          There’s a difference in Peyton and everyone else. Look at some of the other QBs with physical limitations. Most of them are guys who you say are ok but would never really be sold on. Look at Dalton or Schaub. They aren’t bad, but do you trust them. On the other hand look at Flacco and Stafford. Despite having their flaws, you always have a chance with these guys because of their big play ability. Foles isn’t the mental wizard that Brady or Manning is. So it’s tough to say if he will be able to overcome his physical limitations in the long run. However, I like the fact that unlike many QBs with below average arm talent, he’s willing to take his shots down field.

          • theycallmerob

            On the other hand look at Flacco and Stafford. Despite having their flaws, you always have a chance with these guys because of their big play ability.
            I would argue that strength or “advantage” is only contingent on the supporting cast. I love my Joe, but look what Boldin and the D helped him do last year (and in the past). If not for Megatron, Stafford is average at best (still hasn’t done anything beyond regular season). I don’t see why you value him and his arm any more than Dalton.
            And you continue to hand Foles the backhanded compliment that Dalton and Schaub are his ceiling. At no point in a 10 game period has either of those two played at Foles’ level.
            You continue to say you’re skeptical and just need time, yet have concluded that Foles has “no big play ability” and “isn’t a mental wizard”. Just stop faking it already.

          • nicksaenz1

            Exactly.

          • knighn

            Well done, sir!

          • Will

            Did Tebow have Riley Cooper as a WR? If so did he make Tebow look good?

          • theycallmerob

            No, but Jesus was his lead blocker

            sorry edit, you’re right- he was there same time

          • Will

            lol..

          • knighn

            Tebow was there with Riley Cooper and Aaron Hernandez. Cooper drops the N-bomb and Hernandez kills people. I’m starting to think that Tebow was a bad influence on these guys!

          • Will

            Oh no too funny…LMAO…Tebow took 30 mil from the Jets and retired…LMAO….

          • aub32

            I have never said Dalton is Foles’ ceiling. I have never ever claimed to know what Foles ceiling is. I use the Dalton and Schaub comparison because those were the comparisons made by a Foles’ supporter as recent as this week, and I have stated that plenty of times.

            Boldin didn’t make Flacco. He was pedestrian in the regular season and looks pretty pedestian now. Stafford gets a bad rap from playing with Megatron. If you watched him this year, he has made some huge throws. You always say how Foles can’t help who he plays against. Well Stafford can’t help who he plays with.

            I made no backhanded compliments. I knocked his physical gifts. Are you disagreeing? I then followed that by giving him compliments for his intangibles. Just because I can offer both criticism and praise in the same post does not make it back handed. It’s not like I said “He’s performed really well for someone destined to be mediocre.” That would be back handed. My position remains that I am hopeful while remaining critical. Seems like that’s a crime on this site these days.

          • theycallmerob

            I don’t know what else to say to you Aub. You run away from your own words faster than anyone on here.
            No one has brought up Dalton or Schaub today, but you. By comparing their limitations with Foles.
            Look at some of the other QBs with physical limitations. Most of them are guys who you say are ok but would never really be sold on. Look at Dalton or Schaub. They aren’t bad, but do you trust them.
            So now Foles is not bad, but can’t be trusted?

            Despite having their flaws, you always have a chance with these guys because of their big play ability.
            Really? They always have a chance? Flacco has been pedestrian since being here, stats-wise. Big D got them to playoffs. Last year, he had the greatest run ever + Bolding catching everything in the playoffs to get that ring. Have you seen them play this year?

            Foles isn’t the mental wizard that Brady or Manning is.

            We’re all sure of that now, huh? Conclusive evidence? Brady was a HOF from day one? Before his 1st ring, people said Manning was nothing more than a RS qb. But short-term memory, I get it. He also was HOF from day 1. But that’s fair, Foles’ needs to be at their level to compensate for his noodle.

            So it’s tough to say if he will be able to overcome his physical limitations in the long run.

            ……

          • aub32

            I said this week. This week includes yesterday and o yeah even monday. You never fully read my words. You manipulate stats constantly and argue points that I never brought up or are someone elses argument.

            Did you watch Detroit come back against the Cowboys? Stafford made throws that only someone with that kind of arm talent can make. Some teams get down late, and it’s over. There QB doesn’t have the arm to get the ball downfiled when the defense knows it’s bombs away. The big armed QBs are the ones who more often than not bring it back to being close or take the win.
            ….
            I have watched the Ravens. They still have a chance to win their division, and Flacco in January is another type of football player for the last 2 years, not just last year.

            So when will it finally be ok to say anything about Foles. I just said I put “no” ceiling on him. In case you’re not clear that means I’m still open to the idea Foles could turn out to be the greatest QB in history. However, I can only base his play now on what I have seen. I have not seen him pick apart a D with the precision of Brady. I have not seen him play the part of the OC like a Peyton Manning. So no he is not there yet, and I am confident if asked he would say he’s not there yet.

          • theycallmerob

            I think the difference is, you’re asking for a QB who is surefire HOF. if he’s not Brady or Manning, eh. All of the breaks, luck, intangibles, mediocrity that you accuse Foles of is shared by about 90% of the QBs in the league.
            We all want a HOFer. But I also want to win a super bowl. And if Foles is “good enough” for that, on a team with other good players, I think many folks would be happy. And all the evidence to that points to that being possible. Of course he has limitations, he was a 3rd rd pick. Based on just that fact alone, the likelihood of starting (let alone being an above average starter) is slim to none. But I get it, no points for beating the odds or winning, just style and moxie and arm strength

          • aub32

            Who said I’m asking for a sure fire HOFer. There you go again. My argument is clear. Some QBs are special and dynamic. Foles isn’t one of them. He could develop into a QB that succeeds despite his physical limitations, but that is rare in this league. He deserves to start, however he hasn’t, in my opinion, warranted passing on a QB early in the 2014 draft. He still has time to do so, and I hope he does as that will free up resources. Where did I ever mention a sure fire HOFer. I even mentioned the other day that if we do take a QB early, he should have to compete with Foles for the starting job. Chip always talks about needing 2 QBs, Foles has missed games in both his seasons. So I think that getting a QB early is not out of the realm of possiblity right now. I really don’t see where you keep coming up with these riduculous notions that you accuse me of conveying.

          • theycallmerob

            there was no accusation. my first two words were “i think”, following by my justification for my beliefs. I have not uttered the word “draft” today, nor 2014, nor QB of future. He is the QB of present.
            But if that’s an unfair accusation…..pot, meet kettle

          • aub32

            You’re allowed to think. This is an opinion based blog. My question was where did I say many of the things you either incorrectly quote me on or assume that I am saying. I cannot recall you once arguing my actual point. You have never said that Foles isn’t limited. You have never claimed Foles can be Brady or Manning esque. So what exactly are you disagreeing with? I’d really like you to answer what about my actual position that you are disagreeing with.

          • theycallmerob

            For a skeptic, you’ve come to some pretty damning conclusions, and seem to leave no room for the possibility that Foles will improve on the things you see as his weaknesses. Because no QB improves beyond their first 10 games.
            Go back to the post that started this all, your reply to Knightn. If you honestly can’t see the statements you’ve made that I take issue with (no, not because I’m in love with him, but because of the objective elements Foles has displayed in his limited time), then I don’t know what to say. If you don’t see it as unreasonable to say he doesn’t have the mental wizardry, or potential to have, of the 2 greatest QBs in the game today, well….I mean, there’s a lot of grey area there.
            If you want to get into the 2014 picture, I’ll stand by what I always said- let Foles start the rest of the year, and see where he is at that point.

          • aub32

            Is Foles going to get significantly faster? No.
            ….
            Is Foles ever going to have a top 16 arm in the league? No.

            Is Foles going to have the mental understanding of a Peyton Manning? I don’t know, but he doesn’t currently.

            These are points you disagree with? Well to each his own I guess.

          • Will

            If Foles throws for 73% of passes for completions, has 16 TD’s , Zero INT’s, moves the chains, scores in Red Zone, and wins that’s all I care about…Winner-Winner-Chicken- Dinner!

          • aub32

            And if he can manage the same against good teams then I will be less skeptical of those numbers

          • theycallmerob

            Did Peyton have that understanding 10 games out of college?

            More importantly…can a QB win in this league without being fast and big armed? I dunno, we should ask the history books. Vick showed us all that is the recipe for a Super Bowl winning quate—–

            oh….

          • aub32

            What part of not currently wasn’t clear, and Peyton had a better understanding of the game. His picks were a result of the fact that he did not properly calculate how much faster NFL DBs were. He did understand the concepts of the game.

          • theycallmerob

            Does Foles not understand it well? What exactly are you using to judge one’s mental abilities? What in Foles game makes you think he does not, or will not, have to mental capacity to play at a franchise level?

          • aub32

            I NEVER SAID HE WILL NOT. I said he does not because I see just like everyone else him turning to the sideline for playcalls and adjustments. Players in the Manning class don’t have games like he did against Dallas.

          • theycallmerob

            you didn’t answer me. does he now? if so, why? if not, how do you know? why is Peyton being mentioned? are there not other smart QBs, who may be a better comparison? should he not be looking at the sidelines? Has manning never had a bad game?????

          • aub32

            Please give me someone to compare him to. Every time I tried the player was not good enough. So I went with the best so as to not appear to be giving Foles a ceiling. I wouldn’t want you to assume I’m saying Foles can only be as good as Drew Brees.

          • Coatesvillain

            I had to stop reading this back and forth because it’s getting a little infuriating. You’re clearly not reading what aub32 is writing. He has said several times that he is not putting any ceiling on Foles. What he is doing is pointing out his limitations and questioning how he’ll overcome them.

            I’m not sure about the history you two have on here, but I feel he is providing fair criticism here. I see people holding up the 10 starts like it’s an invincibility shield. It’s not. I think its fine to be all in when it comes to supporting Foles, but there has to be some balance.

            I want to see him play when it gets colder, when the wind is blowing harder, and the games are more important. I also want to see how he responds in these last six weeks where defenses have the chance to scheme for his weaknesses. Will he overcome these flaws in his game? That’s the important question, and it’s fair for someone to assume he won’t. But none of us know.

          • theycallmerob

            I think we worked through it, but thanks. It seems that some folks, and I don’t mean this as a slight at Aub specifically, always find some way to discount the things Foles is doing, while comparing him to his peers. some of the faults I find with that are:
            1) the QBs who came in with Foles all came in as starters- Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Kaep (I’m including only because last year was his “rookie year”, essentially), and Wilson. They all came in day 1 getting starting reps, playing with the 1’s, and accumulating starts and experience. Foles has yet to achieve what they all have, but mostly for lack of opportunity. I think it’s unfair to criticize him for things beyond his control (the struggles with the team last year, the coaching issues, this year’s QB flip-flopping). Almost every one of those guys has had a “Dallas game”, but they have the name recognition to get past it (at least at the national media level)
            2) Again, I think Aub and I worked through this, but I initially took issue with some comparisons (Foles’ limitations will put him in the middle-of-pack, game-managing QB situation that most teams are in). I just think it’s too soon.

            3) at some point, the numbers speak to his play. i know a lot of folks include luck, the OL, the competition, the plays by WRs…..but every team has that to a degree. At some point, the good that Foles has shown should outweight the bad.
            Simply scroll up to some of the quotes that Andy posted, from past threads….it displays some views that folks hold on Foles, most of which have been proven to be BS already.
            I get that some people see this as my unwavering defense of the greatest QB ever to wear green, or that I’m a vick-hater. I try to see this pragmatically. And I want to see all the things you listed as well.

          • theycallmerob

            Ok, so 1 game against the Cowboys. Flacco going back 2 years in playoffs, not 1, compensates for his meh stats since being in the league. And if you’ve watched them this year, you know “chance to win division” is because (1) Cincy is beat up, and (2) PIT and CLE stink. Worst division besides us. But I guess that makes them better, and makes Flacco have more big play ability too.
            Care to actually compare the “big plays” of the three of them this year? Bet you’ll be surprised. But I’m sure I manipulated that too

          • aub32

            HAHAHA. Foles can only play his schedule but Flacco is benefitting from his trash division. News flash the Eagles are in a worse division. HAHAHA. Like I said, it would be sad if it wasn’t funny. Also I pointed to one game because I didn’t want to go through every single play. Of course Foles has more big plays. The Eagles are a big play team. That’s my entire point. Foles’ physical limitations, though capable of performing well in this system, are not ideal for this system. A player with the physical gifts of say a Kaep, Luck, Wilson, or Newton could be unstopable in this offense. Foles will have bad days. We saw a horrific day against Dallas. He doesn’t have the legs to compensate for a day where his arm is off. I also “have not seen him come back” when he had a bad first half. In my opinion a bigger arm helps a lot more in times when the opposition knows you have to air it out and make a comeback.
            ….
            Lastly, are you telling me if the Ravens make the playoffs that you are betting against Flacco? Despite what he does in the regular season, he is money in the playoffs, hence always has a chance.

          • theycallmerob

            Worst division besides us
            your response: News flash the Eagles are in a worse division. Yes, I struggle with reading comprehension.

            those guys are not unstoppable in their own offenses. Yet I guess they could immediately step in and simply perform in this offense, better than a guy who’s playing at a historic clip.
            We’re a play action offense more than a big play one. The big plays were there with Vick and news flash Foles too! But I guess those guys would be better, because they have recognizable names. Guess they don’t have bad days either. You know what his legs do get? 1st downs, and not injuries. Guess Foles should have more bad 1st halves to prove to you he can come back from them. And I guess Foles is not the playoff warrior Flacco is, since he’s had a lot of starts to show it. Go back to the start of Harbaugh/Flacco, see how many games Flacco and not the defense won before last year.

            You are right, it is funny.

          • aub32

            I hope Foles never has a bad half, but I am realistic. Eventually he’s going to play a good team, and I can’t wait to see what he does. Foles has neve won a division game that he started. He has never beat a playoff team. Just because we run play action does not mean we are not a big play team. The majority of our scores, especially recently have come from big plays.
            ….
            I never said those guys were unstoppable. They have won division games, made the playoffs, and have proven to be franchise QBs. Foles has done none of the above.

          • nicksaenz1

            Boldin AND Pitta absolutely made Flacco last year, as well as rather fortunate plays from Jacoby Jones in playoffs, as well as a still potent run game last year. Hell, the defense and run game carried him into the postseason for the first 4 years. We’re seeing this year that Flacco can’t carry a team. Boldin caught everything Flacco threw his way, which was usually in traffic. Stafford throws a ton of pics trying to force the ball because he has a cannon. If he doesn’t have Megatron to throw to he’s got no one.

          • EaglePete

            I will say though, Stafford is a really good QB and I dont care what that team does. He makes some absolutely incredible throws, Megatron or not. Dude can ball. Just another example though that its a team game and you need all the pieces. Thats where Dalton sort of fails me, that team is stacked and not getting it done. I think its either Dalton or they need a new coach. Sometimes the scheme is everything.

          • aub32

            Where did I say Foles has “no big play ability”? Don’t use quotes for things I didn’t say. I’m no idiot. Foles had 3 big plays for TDs on Sunday. Having physical limitations does not mean he is incapable of big plays. Again you are making things up just like many of your previous posts. Yet I am sure you will find some way to make me sound like I am clueless rather than just admitting to your error.

          • theycallmerob

            Fine, I get it, you didn’t actually use those exact words behind Foles name; merely wrote a paragraph underlying that assumption.
            I don’t know if when you post, you see the same words we do, but phrases like “on the other hand” and “overcome physical limitations” in the same paragraph where he “doesn’t have the mental wizardry” of two HOF QBs (obviously, his closest competition) or the big arm you correlate to big playability are pretty damning. You can’t be so obtuse to assume that no one makes those mental connections.

          • Andy124

            I can’t read “obtuse” without flashing to Shawshank Redemption.

          • aub32

            You can make whatever connections you want, as you obviously have. Don’t quote me for things I didn’t write. It makes me sound stupid for people who didn’t read my post. I know how to use the English language quite well. I rarely put anything that can be taken as definitive unless it can be proven or has been proven.
            ….
            You are so ridiculous in your love of Foles. He’s too great to compare to Dalton or Schaub, but I am wrong for mentioning Brady or Manning. Who can I compare Foles to then? Or is Foles so special that unlike every other QB ever, he cannot be compared to anyone until he has been in the league for a decade and we know exactly what he is.
            ….
            You can’t even say on thing that I have said about Foles that is a proven non fact. Everything I have said is either a fact or my opinion which I have backed up with football reasons. Yet you are dead set on changing my words or throwing out stats with no context. It would be sad if it wasn’t so funny.

          • theycallmerob

            Don’t take my word for it. There are plenty of other comments on these threads. It seems many people make the wrong connections between the words you type and, apparently, the meaning you have behind said words. I find it equally amusing you only harp on my criticisms.

          • aub32

            They make wrong connections because people like you quote me on things I have never said. I take issue with others as well. Many posters feel I’m pretty unbiased. Some I have just given up on because they can’t form a sentence or stoop to name calling. I will call a point silly or say someone sounds ridiculous, but I try to refrain from name calling.

          • theycallmerob

            Not, maybe, because of the things you say?

          • aub32

            Again you have yet to dispute anything I have actually said. You misquote or ask questions that imply I said something I did not. I’m actually playing a game in which I am counting how many posts you respond to before disagreeing with something I’ve stated about Foles. You keep making it seem like I have determined his ceiling but fail to acknowledge you were wrong in that asumption. You say he has a chance to get to the level of a Brady which I have never disputed against. So the things I say don’t seem to be the problem. You and others have known me to be a Vick fan. So you assume I have an agenda because others did. How could I possibly be objective. So you miscontrue my words when I have been less critical than others, but of course my criticisms have an agenda behind them.

          • theycallmerob

            holier than thou. nice touch. i’ll let that end our day.

          • aub32

            HAHAHA and again you don’t dispute a thing I have said. Thanks for proving my point. My over/under was 10 and you went indefinate. That was a fun game.

          • theycallmerob

            Whatever helps you sleep while Vick is hurt and you’re forced to watch this scrub play :)

          • aub32

            Ding Ding Ding. Thank you for proving my entire point. I am not in any way saying Vick should play even if healthy. Yet that’s all you can see whenever I make any point. I could be referring to Henery and you and others will find a way to try and fight me on some Vick point.

          • theycallmerob

            DID YOU NOT SEE THE #@! SMILEY FACE?!?!?!

            like talking to a damn wall.
            by my rules, you’re at like 241. so…..there

          • aub32

            See how frustrating it is when you say one thing then someone tries to make you out to saying something completely different by omitting part of the comment.

          • theycallmerob

            not really. It’s hard to be so damn right all the time, always objective with perfect stats, and have clowns constantly misinterpret my well-intentioned posts with manipulated stats and an agenda against my favorite player who has the requisite physical skills to succeed in this league

          • aub32

            Ahh now you get it. Looks like we can be friends after all.

          • theycallmerob

            i’ll drink to that.

          • Will

            Foles is your favorite player or someone else?

          • Andy124

            He’s smiley deaf. It’s just like being tone deaf, but different.

          • theycallmerob

            Please, by all means refer to Henery. Or is that another BS assumption you’re making?

          • aub32

            I don’t even get you’re second sentence. If you’re intersted though I think Henery has gotten much better with kickoffs, though he has struggled with FG accuracy. Making kicks in the winter months will make all the difference. People will forget his struggles if he makes some big kicks to help us through the tough stretch of games after the bye. Otherwise competition will need to be brought in, but I wouldn’t waste a draft pick.

          • theycallmerob

            See? we can agree

          • aub32

            Of course we can. We agree on many points about Foles. You just don’t realize it. That’s what I was trying to point out by asking you to dispute my actual words. Too many, myself included get hung up on hyperbole and other peoples comments.

          • Andy124

            I see through your weak analogy for Vick vs. Foles, trying to imply that Foles will fail in the winter and we need to bring in a new QB to compete with Nick next year if he isn’t perfect down the stretch.

            Soooooo obvious.
            For you aub, this is intended to put things back on a more friendly, lighthearted tone.

          • aub32

            LMAO you didn’t need to explain. I know when you are joking even without the smiley faces. That was hilarious though, and to be honest I would not be surprised if that was really how some people interpretted that post. (Not referring to rob but others) just to be clear.

          • Adam

            “Many posters feel I’m pretty unbiased.” I had a good chuckle at that one, and most of what you’ve been writing today. Thanks for the laughs Aubrey.

          • aub32

            Yea you’re one of the ones I’ve pretty much given up on. You are notorious for seeing bias and bringing up controversy where it isn’t even there, then running away when someone points out how silly you sound.

          • Adam

            Don’t give up on me, babe. Instead, give up on the comment section. Everyone will thank you :)

          • theycallmerob

            it’s all my fault, apparently

          • Adam

            Have you tried manipulating the stats

          • theycallmerob

            my apologies….allow me to update my post:

            97.4% of the time, it’s my fault.
            the other 2.6% is on Kurt Coleman, of course

          • Andy124

            What about the other 83.3% of the time?

          • aub32

            Can’t you recall your own posts? That’s the times where they’re made up.

          • Andy124

            Yeah, kinda the punchline.

          • theycallmerob

            G-d, guns, and gas prices. It’s all that is holding Nick back

          • knighn

            I went out for lunch and Rob handled this for me. Thanks, Rob!

          • Will

            I totally disagree about arm strength it’s more of a timing and arc of the ball thing…Foles admits his weaknesses and works on them, a very humble young man. I personally want to see more myself. That is a direct reflection on what I’ve seen from Foles at this juncture so far and am enjoying the On The Job Training process Foles is going thru. I want to see if on the Big stage, Big Game , Division opponent, at Home in the Linc, for 1st place can Foles rise to the occasion.

      • https://www.skinnypost.com/ GayleSaunders

        I think it was more of his deep ball accuracy which people were complaining about. I’m glad to see he isn’t afraid to chuck it up there and go for the big play and he’s getting better and gaining more confidence. The fact that he has Desean to keep defenses honest helps out the passing game with underneath routes and shady’s running options with these two high safety looks will be there if they keep this up. Love that he’s looking super confident out there!

      • BlindChow

        I think last year his OL was so terrible he didn’t have time to throw deep balls. From what I remember, at some point Andy & Marty started calling quicker pass plays when it became clear there wasn’t time to wait on the slow-developing routes every snap.

        • https://www.skinnypost.com/ GayleSaunders

          Your right! Hard to develop under last years kind of line BlindChow …It seems like Nick Foles has played behind bad offensive lines his whole career in Arizona. With great protection he should be able to flourish if they give him the time.

    • Dustan M. Howell

      He can’t. Did you read the article above ? Both of those throws were bad throws by Foles. The first TD was pot luck. It should have been picked. The second one, as Sheil pointed out, should have been thrown between the Safety and the corner because Cooper ran by them, but Foles threw it to where Cooper had to make an amazing catch. More than likely, Foles threw it where he did, and not where it should have been thrown, because he lacks the arm-strength to get the ball over the top where Cooper could have just ran under it. Foles even admitted himself that those two throws were ugly.

      All in all, Foles completed twelve passes. Four of those passes were screens, which are basically running plays counted as passes. The ball is thrown behind the line of scrimmage, and the receiver is the one who actually gains the yardage. So four of those passes where screens, and two of those passes where only completed due to sheer luck or a great play by a wideout. That leaves six passes where you can actually give credit to the Foles for the yardage that was gained.

      Take away the lucky bounce on the TD to Desean, the great effort by Cooper, and Shady’s 150 yards on the ground, and you’re looking at a performance that’s much closer to the game vs. Dallas

      • Will

        All in a 13 mile an hour gusting, swirling, wind….Alex Henry missed a FG under 30 yds because of it. GreenBay’s kicker missed 2 I believe.

        • Dustan M. Howell

          But the two under-throws happened at the opposite endzones. The pass to Desean was into the wind; the pass to Cooper wasn’t. Plus, this his deep balls have had the tendency to hang in the air regardless of the weather conditions. You can go all the way back to his games at Arizona and see the same problem. Scouting reports have the same claim.

          • Will

            Right now with out argue Foles is the Eagles best option at QB..

          • nicksaenz1

            Didn’t know it was a scientific law that wind can only go in one and only one direction at all times.

          • Will

            Obvious he missed the word “swirling” and “Gusts” not to mention how many 400 yds games so far…

          • knighn

            Is Dustan M. Howell another alias for Dutch?!
            “Barkley is better than Foles. He might push for the number 2 job.”
            http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/07/21/weekend-reading-national-eyes-on-vick-vs-foles/#comment-972370361

            Click on his name. A lot of the posts are virtually identical.

          • nicksaenz1

            I posed the same question to Rob, above. If he had the awful spelling/grammatical errors I’d be sold.

            EDIT: Read the link. Not sold. There’s a certain something to the post that makes it unique to Dutch. I clicked on his name and he only has a handful of comments, so I doubt this is him.

          • cliff henny

            nawh, dutch doesnt care what peple think or care. he’ll keep posting away.

          • knighn

            It’s too similar. Perhaps he doesn’t always get to log on so he posts as Dutch. When he does get to log on he posts as Dustan and keeps it a little more respectful since he is actually putting himself out there?

          • cliff henny

            think dutch thinks so little of 99% of the posters in here, he’s not conceling anything. just a like minded guy…maybe it’s his huge nephew?

          • nicksaenz1

            A chip off the ol block, crushin the public league as a sophomore

          • theycallmerob

            Yes, QBs never improve from their time in college. And scouting reports are always the most accurate source.
            Has no one told Russell Wilson he’s too short to be playing?!?!

          • Richard Colton

            can’t get over the new Dutch thing. I think we need an answer before this goes any further.

          • cliff henny

            the arizona college days, scouting report…yeah, red flag there

          • Richard Colton

            has he been to the Delta?

          • nicksaenz1

            Does he go to every sporting event in the tri-state area or has he competed in couch olympics as a child?

      • Don_the_Hun

        Isn’t that what Chip wants from his offense? For the QB to be Steve Nash not Jordan.

        • Dustan M. Howell

          Okay,lol, if Chip Kelly prefers the football version of Steve Nash over the football version of Michael Jordan he can GTFO right now !

          • Don_the_Hun

            I mean in terms of a facilitator rather then the focus of the offense. I think I went too far with the comparison. Who’s a good PG that was a facilitator but could hit the winning shot or provide a offensive spark if you needed it?

          • nicksaenz1

            CP3, D-Will

          • Don_the_Hun

            I think CP3 is a good example. And I may sound crazy, but I’m glad Foles arm isn’t as strong as Vick’s so it’ll at least keep the temptation of the Deep Ball Obsession that Andy fell into away from Chip.

          • nicksaenz1

            Agreed, and at the same time I’m glad it’s something that can improve with strength training, which I’m sure will be done in offseason.

          • Don_the_Hun

            I think he can as well, but it probably won’t improve much. I think Foles arm is just going to be his weakness.

          • nicksaenz1

            It’s average now. A slight improvement is all he really needs if we’re nitpicking. He’s doing well enough for me.

          • Don_the_Hun

            Me too. I mean if I had to choose I would prefer my QB to have all the intangibles and lack in the God given physical attributes. Because like you said we can get you to lift weights and run the bands, but if your dumb we can’t help you.

          • knighn

            The example Chip Kelly used was Rajon Rondo.
            from: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/71149/same-old-chip-what-we-learned-about-the-eagles-offense-in-their-new-coachs-preseason-debut
            “Although not all the Eagles quarterbacks are fleet-footed, whoever ends up the starter will be required to make quick decisions and efficiently distribute the ball to a variety of weapons; in a reply to a question from ESPN’s Todd McShay about who would be his ideal quarterback, Kelly’s response was Rajon Rondo. If the game against the Patriots is any indication, one of the ways in which Kelly will have his quarterback play point guard is by combining run plays with passing and screen concepts, and asking his quarterbacks — sometimes before the snap, sometimes after — to get the ball to the right player.”

          • Don_the_Hun

            Thanks for the backup with facts. I think because Foles isn’t flashy fans think he can’t play. But they fail to realize Chip doesn’t want a flashy QB.

          • BirdGang

            Foles reminds me of Flacco. Which is a good thing and a bad thing.

          • anon

            Nah he’s not flacco — flacco is just a big arm. I think Foles is a better decision maker, less of an arm but he can toss a loopy ball downfield. I’d much rather have him than the $100m man.

          • Andy124

            Stop riding Foles’ D man. :)

          • Don_the_Hun

            In my opinion I think Foles could possibly be a smarter Flacco, which in this league where its extremely hard to find a franchise QB I don’t think thats bad.

      • knighn

        1) Luck is part of the game. Without Luck, Eli Manning doesn’t win SB 42. Without some kind of luck (good or bad, depending on perspective) players would never get injured.
        2) I’m glad you’re only looking at this one game. Foles certainly didn’t complete any deep passes against TB or Oakland either!
        3) “Take away the lucky bounce on the TD to Desean, the great effort by Cooper, and Shady’s 150 yards on the ground…” That’s a great idea, because after all: Football isn’t a team game.

        • Dustan M. Howell

          1.) Luck isn’t something you can depend on, and Eli doesn’t win either SB without a lot of luck. Simply being lucky is not good enough to be the QB of the future; at least it isn’t good enough for me.

          2.) Against Tampa, he mainly threw screens and short high % routes; other than that he had one deep throw to Cooper which was underthrown,again, but Cooper made a nice play on the ball, and he made a nice pass to Jackson. Against Oakland, Foles benefited from a myriad of blown coverages and receivers who couldn’t stay on their feet.
          3.) Football is a team game, and my point is that Foles’s performance has more to do with his teammates making great plays, or the opponent’s making mistakes, rather that Foles making great throws.

          • knighn

            1) No. Luck isn’t something that you can depend on, but you take it when you get it. You think Eli is giving back his rings because he got lucky?! And if Foles is getting lucky breaks now, good for him. As I’ve told you repeatedly, Dutch: Young QBs have room for improvement. If he keeps up at this rate, perhaps he’ll be both lucky and good. The Eagles could use a little more “lucky” for a change. Correct?
            2) So… once again: he mostly executed the plays that Chip Kelly called. That bastard!
            3) Foles took advantage of good situations. A lot of great QBs in the modern era of football (whether you define “Modern Era” as the Super Bowl Era, the Salary Cap Era, or as the Pro Football HOF defines it [after 1988]) have had good situations and failed to capitalize in a way that led to 7 TDs. Isn’t a good QB supposed to take advantage of a good situation?

          • BlindChow

            Regarding (2), Foles in Tampa had 6 passes travel 20+ yards. Actually one of those might have been around 15 yards, with Avant gaining YAC to make it over 20.

            But seriously, this is just a Vick fanboy hurt that his guy is on the sideline and the replacement is getting compliments for playing well. I mean, even if Foles did only throw shorter, high % passes: so what? That’s exactly what Manning is doing in Denver. If only they had a REAL QB over there…

          • Andy124

            But I thought dink and dunk wasn’t winning football?

          • knighn

            I still think he might be Dutch. The other guys have ruled it out but I haven’t. Dutch doesn’t show up for days and all of the sudden this guy starts posting the same message like crazy. Then we all start talking about how he might be Dutch and he disappears. He never addressed the Dutch factor either.

      • Broadcasting Wisdom

        Are you actually not going to count screen passes? Because being 6’5, successfully carrying out fakes, and timing things just right are all pretty key for a screen pass. I know it might look easy to you, but there’s a reason screen passes often fail (or in Vick’s case, often get batted down at the line of scrimmage).

        Also Foles threw 6 incompletions all day. 1 was a blatant drop by Cooper. 1 was the deep fade to Avant after Boykin’s pick which would have been perfect if Avant hadn’t been held. 1 was the [seemingly intentional] underthrow to Jackson that would have been caught if he hadn’t lost it in sun. 1 was a throw away. Then 2 incompletions to Casey and Avant.

        I will take it, but you just keep on complaining there sir.

        • Dustan M. Howell

          I don’t put that much stock in screen passes because it doesn’t take that much talent to throw a screen pass. Also, All but one of those passes where bubble screens, which are rarely tipped at the line. Vick’s passes don’t often get batted down at the LOS. Foles gets passed tipped at the line also. It happens to all QBs.

          The under-throw to Jackson, that he lost in the sun, shouldn’t have been thrown at all. Are you serious ? Do you really think that is a pass that a QB should throw ? It was a very dangerous pass.

          He only threw 6 incompletions, but he only threw 18 passes. If he threw 10 incompletions, he would’ve ended the day with 8 completions, ouch !

          • Guest

            Is that why Vick couldn’t get the ball over fly-swatters in preseason? Because he’s never had an issue with tipped passes?

          • Andy124

            He only threw 6 incompletions, but he only threw 18 passes.

            I know right. I mean, who throws 6 incompletions on only 18 passes? That’s a third of his passes that were incomplete! How crappy is that!

            Oh wait, 67% completion% is pretty excellent isn’t it.

          • theycallmerob

            But you missed the part where 4 don’t count. In fact, they not only don’t count but actually revert to incompletions. so 10/18 incomplete, in his world

          • Andy124

            Yeah, I forgot that only Nick (checkdown) Foles throws screens. D’Oh!

          • knighn

            You do realize that Screen Passes are a HUGE part of Chip Kelly’s offense? So you’re criticizing Foles for effectively running Chip Kelly’s offense?! How dare he?!

          • theycallmerob

            Vick’s passes don’t often get batted down at the LOS.
            Cut it out, new dutch! now you’re just trolling

          • knighn

            I don’t think this is new Dutch. I think it IS Dutch.
            Click on his name and check out the football related posts. It sounds so much like him! Plus the similarities in the name. Can’t you just picture a bunch of football guys calling Dustan “Dutch” for a nickname?!

          • theycallmerob

            Nah, avatar looks too young….Dutch was mixing it up with ol’ Chuckie B for the Iggs back when being a man meant banging your head against a steel pole.
            Unless…was Dutch’s recent absence tied to his going to spelling and grammar school?

          • Andy124

            I don’t think so. If it was Dutch he’d have already told everybody that they don’t know anything about football by now.

          • nicksaenz1

            lol

      • Will

        Of course this accomplishment was all just dumb beginner’s luck as well…The HOF thought different…not bad in your first 11 starts…

      • theycallmerob

        Sure let’s not count them. Also Foles calls the plays and should have called more passes for you.
        In fact, if you don’t count any completions at all he is pretty bad

        • Andy124

          He also completes 0% of passes his receivers drop. ZERO PERCENT!!! Wat a loozr!

        • nicksaenz1

          Wait a minute…. is this guy Dutch???? Could it be? This is Dutch logic, after all. If he had the piss poor spelling I’d be 100% certain it was him.

      • Will

        Age
        Pos
        G
        GS
        QBrec
        Cmp
        Att
        Cmp%
        Yds
        TD
        TD%
        Int
        Int%
        Lng
        Y/A
        AY/A
        Y/C
        Y/G
        Rate
        QBR
        Sk
        Yds
        NY/A
        ANY/A
        Sk%
        4QC
        GWD

        7
        Michael Vick
        33
        QB
        6
        6
        2-4-0
        77
        141
        54.6
        1215
        5
        3.5
        3
        2.1
        70
        8.6
        8.4
        15.8
        202.5
        86.5
        58.75
        15
        99
        7.15
        6.93
        9.6

        9
        Nick Foles
        24

        7
        4
        3-1-0
        86
        136
        63.2
        1256
        16
        11.8
        0
        0.0
        63
        9.2
        11.6
        14.6
        179.4
        132.5
        79.22
        10
        49
        8.27
        10.46
        6.8

        2
        Matt Barkley
        23

        3
        0

        30
        49
        61.2
        300
        0
        0.0
        4
        8.2
        26
        6.1
        2.4
        10.0
        100.0
        44.6
        19.5
        3
        24
        5.31
        1.85
        5.8

        • theycallmerob

          will, you have to edit this please……tables from espn don’t convert well to this site

          • Will

            okie dokie…lol..

          • theycallmerob

            If it helps, i usually do a screenshot (picture grab), and copy it from an application like MSPaint.
            Just turn the table into a pic….I’m sure you know a thing or two ’bout uploading pics :)

          • Will

            Lol I might…lol…

      • Will

        “Foles has played well in his last two starts. Take a look at the
        numbers: 34 of 46 (73.9%) with 634 yards, 10 touchdowns and 0 INTs for a
        155.3 passer rating. Most importantly, the Eagles are 2-0 in those
        games.” per Eskin

  • smallestsmurf

    Absolutely fantastic work Sheil, maybe the “quotes” can become a regular feature?

  • poetx99

    wow. that post throw was crazy. to hear (and SEE) that he did that on purpose… i’m a believer now.

    sheil, as always, tremendous job. with the proliferation of ALL-22-ism, you’ve managed to step your game up once again by perfectly combining All-22 analysis and excellent and cogent reportage.

    the combination of the film + questions about what was going on during the play create a whole which is greater than the sum of some pretty good parts.

    props to you, sir.

    • Adam

      Yup you got it. Lots of people do film breakdown for the Eagles now (which is awesome) but none of them have the locker room access Sheil and Tim have. It’s a great combo.

      • Will

        Job interview and OTJT going well so far Foles be Fantastic. Execution-Execution-Execution…Prepare Well…Looking forward to a showdown at home with the Skins for 1st place in the Division again…

  • theycallmerob

    2 All-22s in 12 hours? What kind of smoothie are you on?

  • anon

    looked like on the dj throw riley (or someone) had beat his man on top w/ no safety. Playing single high safety is tough when we have two burners, no wonder Riley is getting multiple TDs all day running that post route with 4.5 speed on your second (or third) best CB.

    • Adam

      We have 2 burners?

      • anon

        Yeah RC is fast (in some ways he’s the big body fast WR that we still want to get in the draft). He is not a great route runner, doesn’t get great separation, but speed and size allow him to win some battles and if there’s a single high safety who is he going to cover?

        Great b/c we can really spread out the middle of the field, once we get he blocking right Shady and Bryce are going to have a fun time after they get to the second level b/c we’re just running the DBs off.

        How many 40yd win sprints you think DBs can run on a cold day? At some point they’re going to get tired.

        • BlindChow

          Cooper ran a great route AND got separation on his second TD.

  • jabostick

    1) I’m sure some of these lucky bounces we’ve been getting on deep balls are going to go the other way at some point, but I love that he’s taking some deep shots, letting the WRs try and make a play. It’s bound to help the running game in the long run and make game planning more difficult for the opposition.

    2) I also love that when you combine the two All-22’s, you see how it isn’t as simple as “Play press-Man against the Eagles and GloryBoy Chip’s offense can’t do anything”.

    3) I hope they keep using the ‘Tackles lined up wide’ formation. Might make more sense a little closer to the end zone where the DB’s will be lined up a bit closer (??). I want Lane to get better at that because at some point, we’ll be in some tight games and Chip will (hopefully) use his philosophy on trying to steal extra points. That formation seems tailor-made for 2-pt converts

    • theycallmerob

      Also, in the RZ, bring in an extra OL as eligible receiver, so instead of Ertz and Celek in the T spot Barbre and Peters can be in. LJ as a receiving threat as well? Teams bunch too far wide, easy run play especially with an IZR.

      • jabostick

        Actually, that’s another wrinkle I’m waiting/hoping for. On those outside screens, eventually they’re going to have Ertz or Cooper (or Lane) fake their block and head up field uncovered. They could do it with Maehl because he whiffs all the time anyway.

        • Will

          lol…

        • theycallmerob

          Imagine this-
          RZ, say 12 yd line. 2 receivers split wide to each side, in the stagger “one behind other” formation we’ve seen. Celek and Cooper to one side, LJ and DJ the other. OL of Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Herremans, Barbre. McCoy lined up for IZR (in line w/ foles)
          What does defense do? at least 2 dbs to each side or quick screen (also keeps them from blitzing). so 7 in box at most, RO account for 1, still have 5 good blockers with LJ out wide…..oh boy oh boy

          • jabostick

            Yup. Man, it’s wayyy more fun in here after a couple of blow out wins

          • theycallmerob

            Nice to see all-22s showing what went right, rather than what could have been.

      • Chris

        i remember the year herremans lined up eligible and caught that red zone TD from Vick. he was like a giddy schoolgirl

  • CurlyQ

    Not to rain on anybody’s parade but am I the only one who’s not looking forward to Riley Cooper taking a piss test????

    • jabostick

      He’d fight every piss tester in here!

      To be fair, I can’t help but think that there’s a pretty significant chunk of the NFL that would be nervous (given a more sophisticated, frequent and random testing system in place).

      • Richard Colton

        Ohh you mean the thing everyone acknowledges but no one talks about because we love the sport too much. Yeah.

  • Will

    DJax seems happy with Foles….

  • BQNinja

    We called that game ‘Jackpot’.

  • cliff henny

    sheil’s being pc…500? that as called smeer the queer from my parts.

    • nicksaenz1

      Really? Smear the queer was just gang tackle the dude with the ball, who could pitch it if he was being queer.

      • cliff henny

        he didnt really finish it, sure whoever ended up catching it was going to get plowed. at 8, even a game of kick the can ended up being someone getting dogpiled

        • nicksaenz1

          500 was where a person is throwing them up, assigning a number value in air, and the person that caught it got the points. first to 500 wins.

          • cliff henny

            ok..new one to me…i still would have cracked some ribs for points.

          • nicksaenz1

            take out legs when people jump since they’re always jump balls.

      • DEBO 215

        We called that “Rumble Fumble” …just every man for themselves football…good times.

      • EaglePete

        we called it “kill the man with the ball” in my parts, not very clever but accurate.

  • aub32

    I get they are saying that Cooper throw was intentional, but talk about making an easy pitch and catch difficult. Seems like that would’ve been a much easier pass over the top.

  • aub32

    I love the 500 reference.

  • DEBO 215

    Great commentary on the Casey screen play…I was screaming at my tv on that one…glad he was able to shed that tackle and get upfield.

  • John J. King

    Amazing what a bottom 5% ‘O’ can do. Wonder what the top 5% ‘O’ does?

  • Explorer51

    One of the things I really like about Foles is that he acknowledges…very openly…what he needs to improve; he knows he’s a work in progress and it sounds like he’s willing to do whatever it takes to get better. If, and I realize it’s still a major if until we can see what he does in the next six games, he gets a chance to study under Chip in the off-season as a starter, with a tailored strength program he has an excellent chance of becoming a terrific QB. Unless, of course, you believe that his success is mostly due to luck and fortunate circumstances (like good defenses always playing horribly in his games).

    We have to remember, though, that he’s still a young, relatively inexperienced QB learning a brand new system from a coach who may or may not think he’s the future…in a suddenly tight playoff race. But if he really is “the guy” he can grow into CK’s system and we can concentrate our high draft picks on other needs.

  • https://www.skinnypost.com/ GayleSaunders

    I wish James Casey would tell Shady to make one(or max 2 cuts) and get upfield. As much as I love Shady’s moves I think when he starts dancing he gets a little tired…anyone else notice that? Great Job as always Sheil!

    • Don_the_Hun

      At least in this game I did see Shady hit a few holes instead of dancing.

      • https://www.skinnypost.com/ GayleSaunders

        True he ran hard this week. I just want Shady on the field as much as possible so he doesn’t have to call for a break…especially in the red zone

        • Don_the_Hun

          Shady is still young so he suffers from the Super Man syndrome. As he gets more disciplined as a RB he’ll start doing more efficient movement.

    • EaglePete

      thats the Barry Sanders in him. He thinks he can always make the cuts to break a big one so you take the good with the bad. Barry used to always have those -3 yd plays, Shady does the same, very similar actually.

  • anon

    Man this site turned from Vick bashing to Foles D riding awful quickly.

    • Andy124

      I see a lot of ‘Foles bashing’-bashing. Care to spell out for us what constitutes D riding? You’ve been pretty fair lately iirc, so I’m honestly asking you to quote what here constitutes D riding to you.

      • anon

        If you put the reactions to Vick’s performances next to Foles performances the contrast is astonishing. Even a minor critique by Sheil, Tim or Tommy of an ill advised or underthrown pass gets a negative reaction here.

        Just scroll through the comments. I liked it a lot better when it was discussions about the team — members of O and D, etc. instead of Foles hall of fame posters. I’m ecstatic foles is playing well, the team is great on both O and D — even the post not about Foles become Foles love fest. It’s just a little much that’s all.

        • nicksaenz1

          Vick hasn’t had nearly as good of games as Foles. Had Vick thrown 7 tds, for instance, we’d be hearing non stop from #7, BBaaS, etc, about how great he is and how perfect he is for Chip’s system blah blah blah. It’s gone both ways. I’d say there’s more fans that are happy that we seem to be moving on from Vick.

        • Richard Colton

          You liked it better when comments on stories called “FOLES, THE DEEP BALL, AND THE OFFENSE” were about members of the “O and D, etc” and not “FOLES, THE DEEP BALL, AND THE OFFENSE?”

          You’re hard to please.

          • anon

            Check the prior 3 posts — same conversations.

        • Andy124

          Actually, if you go back to the thread after the SanDiego game

          http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/09/16/game-review-eagles-offense-vs-chargers-defense/

          http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/09/15/first-half-observations-eagles-vs-chargers/

          MediaMike does nothing more than assign blame to Vick on some incomplete passes. Notice, we’re talking about incomplete passes being mildly criticized, not touchdown passes. He’s pertty anti-Vick, but he’s in no way trying to blame the loss on Mike. He gets jumped like he’s trying to poison Vick’s dog.

          Cliff mentions that Vick isn’t even “playing out of his mind”. He meant it as a complement, that everything Vick did was sustainable. He get’s jumped.

          Even Token, yes, TOKEN, admitted that Vick played his ass off for the last two games.

          Vick is a beast and let’s finally give him his do .

          Vick didn’t play this well in 2010.

          Oh please — 430yds, 3TDs, no turnovers? You can’t argue that Vick isn’t earning his money, when his passer rating is tied with guys that make 20+ mill a year.

          You like some others can’t accept the fact that he’s playing well and find things to nitpick. You know who has a better passer rating than Vick right now?

          Manning and Rodgers.

          There’s nothing to complain about. ~This was in response to Mike who only said that DJ and Casey were being blamed too much.

          Vick has been outstanding.

          Yep and that is the only way we can make a run. And mark it down people.

          Vick will play 16 games

          I’m not saying there’s something wrong with these comments. Vick was coming off two really good games. Just that any props Foles is getting isn’t out of line with what Vick was receiving.

          And the criticism the two have received is not the same. Vick was given all kinds of kudos. There were arguments over wether some incomplete passes were drops or bad passes. With Foles, people are trying to criticize completed touchdown passes. That is not the same thing.

          • cliff henny

            haha, i remember that. the system is so qb friendly, that wonder what the production level difference would be between foles and lets say brady…then figure in cost time and odds of getting.

          • nicksaenz1

            Your inner researcher coming out has been an irreplaceable value addition to the comments section. Thank you…. I believe if you dig hard enough you can even find me giving Vick his due during his brief stint of good play. But don’t dig for it… I’ve moved on to better.

          • BlindChow

            I, too, appreciate you taking the time to post these quotes. A lot of people seem to have confirmation bias when it comes to past Vick & Foles kudos/criticism. They’ll only remember the things they disagree with.

            But I have no problem with people criticizing TD passes. If a quarterback makes a bad decision and gets lucky (easy INT missed, for example), that bad decision isn’t justified in hindsight by the ultimate result of the play. You don’t want your QB relying on luck over decision-making.

            (That said, in watching the two near-INT’s in the Green Bay game, the decision on both passes looked sound. The passes themselves were off, but in both the Desean TD and Avant pass towards the end, the receiver was open.)

        • Andy124

          Oh, and thanks for the fair answer. Read what Blindchow said about confirnation bias. I think that plays a big role here for all parties.

          I think someone yesterday was predicting some pretty big things for Foles with quite a bit of confidence. Not one of the regulars. For me, it pretty much gets tuned out and forgotten. For you, it might stick out like a sore thumb and get lumped in with “the Foles lovers”. And it goes both ways.

          Every compliment coming out of BBaaS is backhanded to us. You might read them as genuine.

          I’ve said many times that Vick is the most divisive figure in sports in my experience. I think things will be A LOT different once he’s gone. There’ll still be arguments, like over Howie or whatever. But it will be different.

    • devCal

      hi cowgirl!

      • anon

        I don’t even know what that means.

        • Andy124

          He means your a cowboys fan because he doesn’t like your comment… and you’re a girl.

    • Token

      We heard endlessly all offseason how Vick has been transformed again. I cant believe people bought it, but some like you and a couple others did.

      Well, it turned out how it always does with Vick, badly. That is the reason many of us wanted him out of here LAST year.

      But im hopeful that at very least this was a good lesson learned by Chip.

      Vick is done. Move on.

      • EaglePete

        “Well, it turned out how it always does with Vick, badly. That is the reason many of us wanted him out of here LAST year.”

        Man, if that aint the truth and you know the fans of this team had been through enough of that experiment. It wasnt like it was Vicks first season with the team where expectations are new and anything possible. That fact alone changed everything, even with a new coach. Hence the outrageous dialogue on these boards and bitterness towards Vick the player, not the man. Another thing some had a hard time separating.

    • knighn

      I gave you a down-arrow. Not because of the message of your statement but because you failed to come up with something more creative than “Foles D riding”.
      Come on! His name begins with an F! You could have used alliteration and come up with a ton of great insults.
      His name rhymes with “oles” and still the best you came up with is “Foles D riding”?!
      Unacceptable. Do it right or don’t do it at all!

      • Richard Colton

        maybe he meant “Foles deriding”

        • knighn

          That guy, he’s such a Vick D*** Licker.

          See, Anon? That’s how you do it, you little Vick Vixen!

          • Andy124

            Dr. Seusse would be proud.

    • EaglePete

      Vick isnt playing, hes injured again. Why must everyone complain now about reactions to Vick vs reactions to Foles. If Vick plays again lets discuss his merits, until then who cares. Heres a clue, there was a decade of evidence on Vick so it led to pre-conceived views, fair or unfair. Foles is a young player that is showing promise. How dare fans get excited about a promising young QB.

  • Max Lightfoot

    Hard to be that critical of Lane Johnson when he’s being used in such unusual sets. I mean, how many other right tackles are being employed out on the wing? Not too many, I’d guess. But if Chip can get the kid to use his speed and footwork to blast DBs for screens and such, that’s really exciting. Kind of interesting that the O-line’s conditioning allows them to go upfield and take defenders out of the play – might be that practice tuneage and them smoothies, after all. I was also really impressed re: the Eags’ defense being out there against GB that long and not being totally gassed – maybe they are best conditioned team out there. I gotta admit, this is intriguing.

  • jon h

    So Ed Reed was just cut by the Texans? I think we have a need there and probably the dollars to pick him up. With Wolfe hurt right now, shouldn’t we sign Reed immediately?

    • Andy124

      Word is that he has absolutely zero gas left in the tank and wasn’t very good in the Texas lockerroom.

    • Will

      Reed’s 35 injury prone…Noooooooooo Noooooooo

    • theycallmerob

      5 years ago, yes.
      Now, no

      • cliff henny

        so, he sort of nnamdi’d the texans

        • theycallmerob

          nah, he was never pointing at JJ watt as the blame man

    • Will

      Kerry Rhodes only Safety out there worth signing the Eagles won’t touch him at 31…..We go with what we have Chung then Coleman I bet.

      • jon h

        Reed has actually played this year and the guy can bring some added toughness to our D.

        • Will

          I’d be surprised but you never know…

          • jon h

            Will, you’re totally right – there’s no way they do it, but don’t want to hear the nonsense from Howie that there’s no one out there but then out of the other side of his mouth saying he doesn’t know how to evaluate Safeties. If the Eagles think they’re going to make a run this year, he seems like the right guy to add to the equation. We all feel we’re soft at Safety (even though it’s improving) and he would be more than an adequate replacement in the short term – plus, I’m sure he could sell jerseys and be an instant fan favorite.

        • Explorer51

          Jon, I’ve lived (unfortunately) in Ravens/Deadskins territory for the past two decades; Ed Reed was always considered a playmaker-center fielder type safety but his tackling was just a bit north of Asante Samuel. Intelligence and anticipation were his strong suits but he wasn’t a tough guy; he was always a complainer as well but, at least with the Ravens, his interception totals helped fans and Baltimore’s management ignore that side. Unfortunately, I think his best years are far behind him particularly with his chronic injuries; the fans in Philly would love him, at least his reputation, until he conveniently missed most of his tackles. Think Asante but with even more of an ego and a curmudgeon as well.

          • jon h

            yeah, not good. Asante could at least pick it off more than those other two we picked up who couldn’t do either. But if you can’t tackle as a safety, you’re pretty much worthless.

        • anon

          he cant run anymore

  • Beagle Fan

    What collage did Casey go to?????