Gay-Bashing Suspects Held on All Charges

On Tuesday, victim Zachary Hesse testified about the lead-up to the September 11th incident, and the judge held the three suspects on all charges.

gay-bashing-suspects-harrigan-knott-williams-940x540

From left: Kevin Harrigan, Kathryn Knott, and Philip Williams in their September 24, 2014, mugshots.

On Tuesday in Courtroom 406 at the Criminal Justice Center on Filbert Street, the three defendants in the Center City gay bashing case — Kevin Harrigan, Kathryn Knott, and Philip Williams — appeared before Judge Charles Hayden for a preliminary hearing to determine whether there was enough evidence to proceed to trial on charges of felony assault and conspiracy, among other counts. And sure enough, Judge Hayden said there is; formal arraignment in Common Pleas Court is scheduled for January 6th.

The defendants, who previously pleaded not guilty and remain out on bail, appeared in the courtroom with their families, with Knott’s mother crying throughout many points of the proceeding. State Representative Brian Sims was also in attendance in the courtroom, which was crowded but not full.

Prosecutors called two witnesses to the stand: Geoff Nagle, whom we interviewed in the week following the attack, and Zachary Hesse, one of two victims in the case.

Nagle testified that he observed most of the attack from his third-floor window overlooking the corner of 16th and Chancellor streets. He said that he saw a woman in the group pointing her finger at someone and that the person she was pointing her finger at then pushed her hand away. “And then it took a drastic turn,” he said on the stand.

He also testified that he saw one of the men in the group put a man in a headlock and that there were punches thrown. He said that he heard cursing and yelling in male and female voices, including language such as “fucking faggot.” Under cross-examination, Nagle said that he couldn’t identify any of the defendants as having thrown any punches.

Hesse, who is 28, was next to take the stand. He gave emotional testimony about the assault, saying that the incident began when he was with his boyfriend on the way from getting frozen yogurt and walking to Mama Palma’s for pizza.

Hesse said that when the pair encountered the group at 16th and Chancellor, Harrigan asked, “Is that your fucking boyfriend?” “I said, ‘Yeah, that is my fucking boyfriend,” he testified. “‘Do you have a problem with that?'” Then he testified that Harrigan said, “‘So you’re a dirty fucking faggot?’ So I approached him and said, ‘Maybe I am a dirty fucking faggot.’ He pushed me, I pushed him.”

Then Hesse says that he was surrounded by the group. “I was terrified,” he testified. “It’s scary to have people surround you, and your arms are being held.”

While Nagle wasn’t able to make any identifications, Hesse was much more clear. He identified Harrigan as the man who first hit him in the head, Knott as the woman who “smacked or hit” him in the head and called him a “fucking faggot,” and Williams as the man who then hit Hesse again.

Hesse’s boyfriend received the brunt of the attack, suffering two broken cheekbones, according to prosecutors, which resulted in his having his jaw wired shut for nearly two months.

On cross-examination by the three attorneys, Hesse became visibly shaken, confused and, at times, noncooperative. The defense attorneys hammered him on apparent inconsistencies in his testimony.

Lawyers for the trio asked the judge to dismiss the most serious charges and remand the case back to Municipal Court, but Hayden disagreed, saying that the prosecution had met its burden for the preliminary hearing. He then wished all three of the defendants “good luck.”

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  • Kevin Kong

    Victor, no full list of the charges or link to the court dockets?

  • Michael L

    too bad they cant be in jail for christmas that would be a great gift to the victims

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      The victims here are the ones falsely accused with “hate crimes”.

      Remember this? No?

      • enfilmigult

        Falsely accused? How do you figure?

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        I don’t get it… This Marine did not tip because she did not agree with the servers lifestyle (I can’ really read the handwriting int he receipt….What does this have to to with the thread?

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          So you don’t remember Dayna Morales?

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            No. I don’t. What makes her memorable (or in my case, unmemorable?

          • Pedro Frederico

            A quick Google search will show her story. It’s about a lesbian waitress who complained about getting a bigoted message instead of a tip and then got thousands of dollars from well-wishers which she had to, naturally, give back.

            What Sprickolo is implying is that if one member of the LGBT community perpetrates a hoax then every other member must do it. Not prejudiced at all. It’s not like if there weren’t actual witnesses who saw them being pummeled into a bloody pulp.

            The defendants are innocent until proven otherwise, yes… Considering the witnesses’ testimonies, video recordings and the judge at the preliminary hearing who, with access to all gathered evidence decided they must go under trial for all charges I’d guess “otherwise” is pretty much a given fact by now.

            You’d look smarter if you actually kept quiet, other than trying to blame the actual victims for being viciously attacked for their sexual orientation.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            Shoehorning your self-perceived orientation into everything that happens to you is a clear sign of persecution complex.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            No, I don’t…

      • Inis_Magrath

        Listen, Prickolo, the beating was RECORDED BY WITNESSES ON THEIR CELLPHONES. Moron.

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          Without context. Moron.

      • Luna

        You’re on a whole different story. Also, being nasty to someone because you don’t like their sexuality, or skin, or hair, or voice, or anything else that causes you no harm, is a hate crime. Attacking someone, insulting them, violating them, these are hate crimes.

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          How did you tell it’s because they “didn’t like their hair colour”?

          By imagining it up from the Narrative Of Our Persecution?

          • vorpal

            I’m pretty sure that when someone calls a gay man a “faggot” and then proceeds to beat them up that it quite clearly constitutes a hate crime.

      • Justin Thyme

        Sprickolo, your ignorance is very apparent. please go back to school and learn something worth posting.

      • Buster33

        The photographs of the gruesome injuries suffered by one of the gay men show who the real victim of the real hate crime was.

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          And it was a hate crime because… you like to think so.
          A real true believer, aren’t you?

          • Buster33

            Wrong. I don;t think “hate crime” legislation is a good idea. These three thugs need to be sent to prison for at least six months for the violent beating they administered to a man who in no way required one to safeguard their personal safety. They don’t need to be sentenced for hating gay men. They need to be sentenced for transferring that hatred into a brutal and unwarranted beating.

  • Tommy Grover

    Poor little piggy. Chief Daddy couldn’t make it go away like all the other times before?

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      Surely you know it better than anyone…

      …or you are just a bigot with a big mouth.

      • Tommy Grover

        Bigot? Against a police chief’s daughter who served as a ringleader in a violent gang with assumed privilege from her father’s position? Pretty small group I would imagine!

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          As a ringleader in a violent gang of your imagination?
          Indeed.

          • Tommy Grover

            Imagination? No, court sanctioned arraignment on all charges.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            On a judge’s personal whim. Right.

          • Tommy Grover

            Judges trump small town police chiefs. Welcome to the USA.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            More like welcome to courtroom feudalism.

          • Tommy Grover

            Perhaps you and Knott should move to a Middle East country that rules under Sharia Law.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            Perhaps you shouldn’t be an apologist for unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats.

            But alas, there is nothing like religious fundamentalism from the irreligious.

          • Tommy Grover

            Perhaps you shouldn’t be an apologist for a violent gang who committed an illegal hate crime in the US. Or, choose a country to live that shares your violent religious beliefs and backs them with laws.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek
          • unusualmind

            Except that it’s not imagination. Including both the judge’s ruling and the evidence caught on tape, this beating actually happened.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            On a tape which you never seen, only been told about.
            And which is only relevant if the judge unilaterally declares it so.

          • unusualmind

            Actually, I’ve seen the tape. It happened.

          • philman

            None of these three stories has even the most remote connection to what this case is about.

          • Duncan McGee Nefcy

            Uhhhhhh I’m pretty sure that judges for the “Common Pleas Court” are elected

        • philly dude

          that’s SO misguided in so many ways

          • Tommy Grover

            So is disputing the obvious. Was the king really wearing clothes?

      • MJ

        I basically disagree with you, but you WILL see how badly the sheepish clowns on boards like this will try to gang up on you (they can only do it behind computer screens) if they disagree with what you’re saying. They even do it to other gays that don’t just go aong with the accepted mob rule. But…you probably figured this out already. (Also, remember, goofballs on message boards like this don’t represent the general population of ANY group).

    • Amelia Rubenstein

      “sprickolo” is either secretly one of the 3 defendants or just some crazy Arian biggot

      • MJ

        The name sure isn’t Aryan.

      • MJ

        The three defendents don’t even know this blog exists.

      • Tommy Grover

        Soon to be featured on an episode of ‘Hoarders,’ facing eviction from her Alabama trailer park.

  • http://josephklock.tumblr.com klockya

    He wished them good luck?

    • Sam_Handwich

      tongue in cheek, i suspect

      • vfiorillo

        I don’t think so. I think he was being cordial.

        • Defenseman13

          nope. Sarcasm.

        • JonO

          Judges are probably the least cordial people on Earth.

    • Bryan Snyder

      I would sure hope, given the integrity any judge should have, that it was indeed “tongue-in-cheek”.

      • vfiorillo

        I imagine that the judge routinely wishes defendants luck. Don’t see anything wrong with it.

        • Bryan Snyder

          The judge “routinely” wishes defendants good luck? Really??? So I guess this judge in question routinely wishes defendants being tried for murder good luck at trial. Oh indeed, that sounds rational alright. It was tongue-in-cheek. These spoiled and so-called tough brats deserve what they get–hopefully prison for at least a few years. I’d love to see how tough they are then when reality sets in and those prison doors slam shut and lock.

      • KCnHOUSTON

        It is a common thing to say when making a decision against the defendant. It means, “You’re in a heep a trouble boy” In this case it would be, boys and girl.

    • Jeremy Adkison

      Yeah, I read that as being cordial, next stage is starting, good luck, etc. I wouldn’t read to much into that.

    • juanjo54

      Since neither you nor I was there we do not know the tone of voice he used or the complete context of his comment. He may have been sarcastic which would be indicated by the tone of voice. The fact is that judges are not known for being too warm and fuzzy to defendants period. At least in the 33 years I have practiced law.

      • vfiorillo

        But I was there.

  • Frost

    Rot in prison.

  • JA JA

    interesting, who gets frozen yogurt before pizza? DUN DUN DUN.

    • DaniMags

      lol

    • disqus_JjYnU5MRNk

      I always say, “Dessert first!”

    • http://www.tableman.com/ N Tableman

      who eats frozen yogurt? sugar is far worse than the fat in cream…

      • KTSapphire

        You eat sugar-free ice cream?

    • madcapfeline

      That’s the best part of being a grown up, getting to decide when it’s time for dessert.

  • Kat

    Good luck? The judge wished them good luck? And he allowed Mr. Hess to be ganged up on AGAIN …this time by the spoiled kids’ lawyers??? I feel sick/

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      Chill, Kat….the defense is doing their job…and trying to justify their $700/hr. on a lost cause. Further that may not even by the same judge that ends up hearing their case, especially if they are tried separately, which the Defense can request – to dis-enjoin…

    • leslie

      I think the judge meant “good luck” to be sarcastic, like luck is all they have on their side at this point.

      • ewe

        I don’t know about that. I hope you’re right. I don’t think the judge should say things like that. It has the appearance of a lack of impartiality. I have heard judges say good luck but it was to people they seemed to like. It also seems unfair to the victims for a judge to be saying good luck to the perps.

        • Magicman

          A judge is impartial until they’ve made their decision. That’s the whole point.

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      #GuiltyUntilProvenInnocent

      • Inis_Magrath

        They’ll get a trial and be represented by a lawyer and everything. Relax.

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          The Soviet Union used to play the same game of pretend.

  • David Bursky

    I don’t know if the guy who was attacked wants his name publically mentioned. I know they wanted to be anonymous prior to this court date.

    • vfiorillo

      This of a report of what happened today in open court, and it accurately reflects the record.

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      If, today, he identified himself in court, for the record, then it’s OK to use his name in public. It’s reasonable to assume he wanted it to remain private until this day.

  • hotbeef801

    #knottgonnagetapass

  • pete

    “held the 3 suspects on charges’ Do you mean they were held without bail?

    • vfiorillo

      No, that is not what is meant. The piece clearly states that they are free on bail.

      • pete

        I read the ‘clearly stated’ part; 1st sentence, 2nd paragraph, thanks. The headline and supporting abstract are worded a little differently, so I asked for clarification.

        • vfiorillo

          Understood.

    • Jack Werner

      Should probably be case held over for trial.

  • Chip Whitley

    Hess visibly shaken, confused and, noncooperative at times. Seems like someone doesns’t have their story straight..

    • Sam_Handwich

      seems like there’s plenty of credible evidence to pursue a trial on assault charges

      • Chip Whitley

        I agree the evidence is there, I do think some charges will be knocked down/dismissed.

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          Uhm…that would have happened today. Hence, the purpose of a preliminary hearing. At this point, their only hope to avoid punishment for any or some of these charges is for them to be found ‘Not Guilty’ of them…

        • Pedro Frederico

          Keep wishing. The judge decided they shall go under trial for all charges.

          • Chip Whitley

            I’m not wishing anything. Guilty or not guilty I truly do not care, but in my experience not all charges ever end up sticking. So it will be interesting what charges are dismissed, or they are found not guilty of.

    • bggb

      Actually that’s pretty common among eyewitnesses and victims. It’s hard to remember specific details, especially as you were being attacked and assaulted.

      • Chip Whitley

        Hard to remember? He’s had 3 months to remember..not like this happened a week ago and he’s still remembering small details.

        • Ben Rubinstein

          What are you talking about? Simply adding more time doesn’t make it easier to recall details of extremely traumatic events.

          • Chip Whitley

            Ben, when something this traumatic happens you don’t forget details or parts of the story.

          • bggb

            Ben, when something this traumatic happens you don’t forget details or parts of the story.

            This is not true at all.

          • Chip Whitley

            No false either. More like a case by case basis.

          • steveorevo

            If someone used a sledge hammer to break both your cheekbones and rearrange your face I guarantee you won’t remember the color of his shirt. Any physical trauma can prevent memory storage and retrieval -not to mention any emotional trauma.

          • John

            sledgehammer? it was a fist. and the guy with the broken jaw wasn’t the one testifying so that comment meant nothing and wasn’t relavant at all

          • brandonrg

            Chip, that’s actually the exact opposite of correct. You’re less likely to accurately remember the details of traumatic events.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            As I posted above, Brandon is correct. It’s called Acute Traumatic Exclusionary Recall.

          • Chip Whitley

            Does that happen? Absolutely. However these victims were very certain from the beginning of many small details. So I find it convenient they don’t stumble when questioned by their lawyers.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            All we are saying is that the mind wants to exclude bad things to protect themselves, and that becoming flustered under the circumstances is quite normal.

          • Chip Whitley

            They had to remember bad things to get this case to where it currently is.

          • NATHAN AMAL

            nope-that was witnesses and video evidence

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            First thing you’ve said with which I agree…

          • Kim Neill

            Ahh Chip, Old Boy, sounds like a friend of the attackers. So do us Philly Residents a favor, STAY where you are!!!!

          • http://aimaiameye.blogspot.com/ Aimai

            No you moron. They couldremember the attack without knowing who the specific attackers were (because they were strangers). In fact the attackers were determined/located because of a video recording of the incident. No cross examination or victim account necessary.

          • seth

            Sounds like you are lucky enough to have avoided traumatic events in your life, or at least avoid cross examination in front of at least 40 people when retelling your story.

            Something else you may want to avoid – commenting on psychology with no basis and no frame of reference.

          • philman

            Nah. It sounds to me like “Chip” is your basic homophobe trying to blame the victims.

          • Smartandbeautiful

            You’re probably conservative, stupid bucks county trash just like the victims. It’s obvious that you can get shaken when you have seasoned attorneys firing questions at you.

          • dhsimmons

            “Acute Traumatic Exclusionary Recall”

            If that exists, then we should not allow victim testimony to be admitted as evidence in a criminal trial.

            You realize that you’re talking about convicting people of crimes based on testimony that you yourself claim can’t be accurate, because trauma?

            You seem to think this is some kind of “get out of bad testimony” free card, that lets people offer absurd, contradictory, or factually impossible testimony, but still be believed. It actually does the opposite. It makes all victim testimony suspect.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            No, I don’t think that at all. I sure am glad, though, that there are other, corroborating witnesses that will help put all of this together. The victims may just be the worst witnesses in the lot….because of their circumstances.

          • Diane Keller

            They don’t rely completely on the victim’s testimony in most cases. They certainly didn’t in mine, and I wouldn’t have expected them to.

          • juanjo54

            All witness testimony is unreliable. This is why juries are always instructed to view such testimony with caution. For example this is a model jury instruction used in federal courts [and many state courts]:

            4.11 EYEWITNESS IDENTIFICATION

            You have heard testimony of eyewitness
            identification. In deciding how much weight to give to this testimony,
            you may consider the various factors mentioned in these instructions
            concerning credibility of witnesses.

            In addition to those factors, in evaluating eyewitness identification testimony, you may also consider:

            (1) the capacity and opportunity of the eyewitness to observe
            the offender based upon the length of time for observation and the
            conditions at the time of observation, including lighting and distance;

            (2) whether the identification was the product of the
            eyewitness’s own recollection or was the result of subsequent influence
            or suggestiveness;

            (3) any inconsistent identifications made by the eyewitness;

            (4) the witness’s familiarity with the subject identified;

            (5) the strength of earlier and later identifications;

            (6) lapses of time between the event and the identification[s]; and

            (7) the totality of circumstances surrounding the eyewitness’s identification.

            The fact is that eye witness testimony can be and often is not completely reliable but often it is all we have to go on in a criminal trial. But if we did not allow eye witness testimony as well as other evidence, what would we use to convict people of crimes?

            Whitey Bolger did not cimmit any of his many murders on video or audio recordings. He was smart enough not to leave a bunch of evidence behind at the scene because he was not an amateur in a panic. It took the testimony of numerous eye witnesses, mainly co-participants in the crimes to convict him of the murder he committed or authorized as leader of the Irish Mob in Boston. Should he have been given a free walk because it was only eye witness testimony that tied him to the acts?

            I have done defense work for many years, both criminal and civil. I will and do attack the credibility of eye witnesses in front of the jury. Because it is my job to create reasonable doubt in the ind of the jury. Remember that the next time you are screaming about how the defense attorneys are all scum for attacking witnesses.

            The fact is that there was sufficient evidence here according to the judge to establish probable cause these people committed a criminal assault. There will now be a trial in which the government will have to put on evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that these individuals committed the criminal acts they are accused of committing. The defendants will have the opportunity to present whatever defense they wish to present. They may simply deny the assaults. They may claim self defense. It is hard to say. The jury will decide which version is the truth.

          • Chip Whitley

            Have you ever been assaulted? At least when I was it was clear as day to me the details whether it was one week after or one year after.

          • CJ Mund

            Clearly, you were NOT assaulted. Having been a victim of assault myself, the incident was hard to describe to police. I was beaten in the face and head area and details of the event were sketchy. You are full of crap, sir.

          • Ly

            Chip,you can’t use your own experience to define another’s experience. Everyone reacts differently

          • Jarath Hemphill

            I was gang raped when I was in college and I blacked out the entire event. Still to this day 30 years later I remember say 15 minutes before the attack and the very end of the attack… but I do not remember anything of it. The brain is a strange thing and reacts to bad situations differently for everyone, and will try to protect you from bad things.

          • grace

            I have PTSD and memory loss was the key symptom the psychiatrist looked for in securing a diagnosis and treatment for me. It’s called dissociative disorder, and it’s primarily caused by traumatic experiences. If your experience is bad enough, your body protects you by limiting your ability to recall the event. This is how people are able to endure things like the massacre in Rwanda and go on to live relatively normal, happy lives.

          • Chip Whitley

            First off, I’m sorry you have PTSD. Fact remains they remember enough to get this to trial, and have no issues answering questions from their team of lawyers.

          • Lou2800

            I afraid you’re not an expert in this area, Chip, or you would know that MANY victims DO NOT HAVE an eidetic memory of the event. So, STFU on a topic about which you know nothing. Having spent 25 years as a legal consultant, I probably know a bit more about this than you do. Cheers.

          • Mel Gee

            As someone who survived many acts of domestic violence I guarantee you that you often forget details. You block out lots during and after. Most of the time you are thinking about how you are going to survive the attack during the attack than what is happening in the attack. Also, as someone who has been terrorized by defense attorney’s, it does not take much for them to spin your words and confuse you which causes stress and during stressful moments our brains do not recall information properly. Maybe educate yourself before making such ridiculous statements.

          • Philly dude

            In than 5 minute altercation mel? Really? Don’t relive your issues here….this is about THIS couple and this situation…keepn ur issues and long history out of it. Not enuff time f tor “supposed” situations you experienced here

          • Mel Gee

            Then maybe you should have kept your uneducated opinions out of it because this wasn’t about whether or not you thought they were being honest either. Also, doesn’t hurt to learn to spell properly. Gets a point across a little better when words have the correct spelling. I guess you just don’t like to think that you could possibly be wrong. If ignorance is bliss you must be one blissful individual.

          • Philly dude

            Scholarly articles aren’t the “did you know” portion off the back of your frosted flakes box, girl.. even though you may have hide time to read it thoroughly during your 5 creak fast bowls….

          • Mel Gee

            Yeah, you are not worth anymore of my time. I hope you find happiness in life and become a better person. Take care.

          • philly dude

            From the appearance of your profile pic, it looks like you have nothing better to do with your time then sit in front of your computer and discuss situations, so let’s go girlfriend. You’re clearly coming from an anti-male perspective which is often the case with angry lesbians who are unhappy in life and looking to blame others, largely males. Self-awareness much?

          • Mel Gee

            excellent way to show your ignorance through all your assumptions. In fact I love males, I have sex with one quite frequently and I have been fortunate enough to have had two sons with him whom I also love dearly. 1 is heterosexual and 1 is homosexual, we love them both equally. You are right though, I am in front of a computer often, usually about 4-5 hours a day when I am doing intakes or reports. You see, I noticed a lack of services for men in the world. There is a lot of services for women who are victims of violence and rape but not for men. I did not think this was fair so I decided to start some programs in the city to address the issue and provide the much needed services the world requires but lacks. So angry I am not, i am a very happy individual who is very pleased with her life. Lesbian? Even though I know many and respect each and every one of them, unfortunately I was born to be attracted to opposite sex so I am not that either. Anti-male? Far from it! Sometimes I am a little more pro male then the males in my life. What I am against though are people who commit acts against other humans beings for being who they are. I am also not very fond of uneducated and ignorant statements. I usually let the trolls troll along but today I thought hey, I have a bit of free time before group starts, why not correct some of the assumptions. At least then maybe next time you open your mouth you will think first…but I doubt that. With this I bid you farewell. have a wonderful day.

          • Carol Scott Hutchinson O’Husky

            and you know this because…

          • CeeCee

            You are dead wrong. Ever hear of PTSD?

          • Ronald D Trostle

            You clearly know nothing about PTSD do you. When traumatic things happen it is hard to remember. You brain will defend itself and try to block things out. I am in therapy for stress right now and I can assure you that his reaction is very normal. Don’t criticize people if you have never been in their shoes.

          • NATHAN AMAL

            said no psychologist expert ever…man, you sound really dumb

          • Diane Keller

            Wrong. I was held up at gunpoint; 20 minutes later I could barely recall what the guy looked like, and he was right up in my face with the gun poking me in the ribs. The only thing I could recall with any detail was the gun itself. Your mind blanks out a lot at times like that because it’s in survival mode.

          • Philly dude

            This was a very quick altercation according to the witness..so let’s not pretend he needed to recite the dialogue of gone with the wind, genius

          • philly girl

            you’re retarded and your hair color is even more retarded….stop being a dramatic sissy cat….dumbass

          • johnnyboyjohn

            Uhm, that’s patently false. If you’ve had a brain injury or a high amount of stress, some detailis DO come back after periods of time because the brain re-makes the connections and those memories come back. This is very common for people who have been in car accidents, beatings, rapes, fires, etc… So, therefore, adding time DOES make it easier to recall details. You’re welcome.

        • Tara

          On the other hand, it happened three months ago. That’s a long stretch of time to remember specific details, especially after a traumatic injury that required hospitalization.

          • Chip Whitley

            Unless they are suffering from brain damage from their injuries, I don’t see how you forget details from such a traumatic night.

          • Steve

            So you must have been beaten up on the street by 3 strangers for being gay then at least once right Chip? Because otherwise, I don’t see how you could give an accurate account of how someone in that situation should recall their beating in a courtroom.

          • Chip Whitley

            They recalled it well enough to get this case to trial. They recalled it well enough to handle the questionings from the lawyers. But they don’t remember it when cross examined? Convenient.

          • Howard Swimm

            You keep saying remembered enought ot get this far”….I bet you would say look at her skirt she deserved it! I too have been assaulted my first thought was how to survive not how many times I was hit !!! Really?

          • Pedro Frederico

            Just how dumb are you? It’s only natural that such things happen if you are to stand in the same room as the people who attacked you and nearly killed you, while under hostile cross examination from their lawyer.

            You’re trying so hard to see what you want that you see it even if it isn’t there.

          • Chip Whitley

            I’m actually very intelligent, thank you. I’m not trying to see anything that isn’t there, you on the other hand stating an attack that “nearly killed” them is absurd. Neither were admitted with life threatening injuries, so please spare me the drama.

          • Tinkdnuos

            He’s actually so confident because he’s frequently beaten up gay couples in the street for no reason and he joyously relives every detail, sometimes with an old sock and a handful of lotion.

          • MJ

            dumb

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            …and that is a possibility with the sharp blows to the head. It is most likely that the damage to the psyche or memory-retentive parts of the brain were affected, either physically or psychologically. In other words, give it up. You’re not winning this one, and the judge knows more bout victim recall than you do.

          • livefreeordie

            Actually, Chip, it is very common to have difficulty remembering details of traumatic events. In fact, “inability to recall important aspects or details related to the trauma” is one of the diagnostic criteria for PTSD. It is but 1 of the 17 diagnostic criteria, but it is a criterion because it is a VERY COMMON reaction to trauma. Our minds can do amazing things in the service of “protecting” us during times of trauma… which makes sense, during something traumatic/dangerous our mental energy needs to be focused on survival not on remembering the details of what is happening in the moment…

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Exactly right; well-said!

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            This almost sounds like a rationalization to believe an incoherent confession.

            In fact, it probably is one.

          • NATHAN AMAL

            I think Chip may b retarded, he keeps forgetting that he is posting the same thing over and over and over…

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          That statement doesn’t make sense. After three months, the mind DOES start deleting minute details until the memory becomes distant. In some extreme cases of trauma and violence, the mind may shut down altogether and amnesia results. But yourself in their shoes: Wouldn’t you want to forget what these people did to you?

          Luckily, many of their own posse are testifying against them in order to save their own skins…and that is a motivator to remember everything VIVIDLY.

        • juanjo54

          As an attorney for over 30 years and having dealt with issues involving memory and eye witness testimony there is a lot of opinion being expressed here which is simply not true. The victim of a violent crime often has issues recalling all aspects of the even and the greater the amount of time from the event the more difficult it becomes to recall specifics. Scientists who study the mind and how it functions will give all sorts of explanations on how the mind works and how this happens but the reality is that it is common for the victims and even eyewitnesses to violent events to forget some aspects and recall others.

          In fact there was a series of experiments done by a college professor in which he had an entire lecture hall full of students witness an event they did not know was going to happen. A man entered the room and verbally assaulted another person. The altercation escalated until the initial assailant pulls out a pistol and appears to shoot the second person [it is a starter pistol shooting blanks]. People were then interviewed on what they had witnesses. They disagreed on the race of the shooter, the type of weapon, how many shots were filed, how long the event took, and numerous other aspects of the event.

          • Chip Whitley

            Thanks Juan, but its not like they forgot everything. They remembered enough to get this to trial and had no issues answering questions from their lawyers. They stumbled when cross-examined.

          • brandonrg

            “Stumbled when cross-examined” is the point of cross-examination. Defense lawyers do their best to get witnesses for the prosecution to trip up, and prosecutors do the same to defense witnesses.

            It is not at all surprising that someone becomes flustered under intense and antagonistic questioning.

          • juanjo54

            That is true Chip but lacking a transcript or recording to review that is not very telling. First, prior to the hearing the prosecution would have gone over the areas they intended to ask questions with the witnesses so they knew what they would be asked and had time to formulate a response without any pressure as exists in a courtroom. Secondly in a hearing it is almost always under cross examination that people tend to have issues. That is true of anyone no matter what type of case. The adversarial nature of the situation causes this to occur because the job of the defense attorney s to cause the witness to mess up and to take minor discrepancies and make them appear more extreme. It is very hard to think under these circumstances.

            Of course in a preliminary hearing the standard is much lower than it would be in a trial. The amount of evidence required needs to be enough to find whether probable cause exists to believe that the offense charged has been committed by the defendant. The trier of fact in the trial [usually a jury] will decide how much weight to give to the testimony and the standard at trial is much higher – beyond a reasonable doubt.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Thank you, Juan. Very well-explained. Clearly, you are very smart, and Chip is very dumb.

          • Bystander

            Good lord, dude. How many times are you going to post the same thing? All you have to go on is a vague statement in a news article that he appeared “confused” and that the defense attorneys were pointing out “inconsistencies”. Maybe they asked him about something that he hadn’t been asked about before. It’s possible to remember that someone kicked your ass but not remember every specific detail of everything that happened that night. Remembering that someone kicked your ass is “enough to get this to trial”, but it might not be enough to remain confident during cross examination.

          • Buster33

            The jury won’t stumble when they convict the defendants on all charges.

          • dhsimmons

            If the victim can’t remember the details of the event, then their testimony should be utterly disregarded.

            How can we know that one of the “details” they’re forgetting isn’t that they started the fight?

            By your own argument, they can’t possibly be certain of that, and therefore can’t testify to that effect.

            In this case we have one neutral witness – one who suffered no trauma, and therefore can’t be suffering from Magical Memory Erasure Disease – saying that the fight started because someone slapped a woman’s hand. Since there’s only one woman in the incident, that would mean that the physical confrontation was started by the victim. And then we have a different story told by someone who ALL of you are telling me can’t possibly really remember what happened. So who am I supposed to believe?

          • Anthony Parello

            How about believing the two who were there talking to the cops not the ones who ran away and stayed hidden until caught by the internet.
            If it was just a fight they would have either stayed at the scene or contacted the police the next day. They did neither.

          • dhsimmons

            “If it was just a fight they would have either stayed at the scene or contacted the police the next day.”

            That’s just not true. Most bar fights I’ve ever seen end with BOTH sides leaving. In fact, “Break it up guys, the cops are coming!” is usually what gets the fight to end.

            To be fair, I haven’t seen a bar fight since 1998. But still.

          • seth

            Neutral witness cant testify as to what was said, which makes all the difference. “Fighting words” are not protected speech either, so save that argument for another time. Pointing a finger in my face close enough that I can slap it away seems threatening enough to me.

            You are essentially commenting on the process that is already in motion. If the victim has a selective memory, good defense will uncover it.

          • dhsimmons

            “‘Fighting words’ are not protected speech either, so save that argument for another time.”

            No successful implementation of the fighting words defense for assault has been employed in the United States since the 1920’s. If one of the erstwhile victims here started the fight by slapping the girl’s hand because she called him a gay slur, that doesn’t eliminate his legal responsibility.

            And you’re right, this will probably all be covered at trial, and this was just the preliminary hearing.

          • seth

            Whether or not he is a “victim” in your eyes, how many people who have been beaten on the street by at least three people been charged with any sort of crime? Legal responsibility… Okay, maybe because he slapped a hand away from his face… But is that a simple enough reason to drop all charges?

          • juanjo54

            dhsimmons – if you want to fight, go play elsewhere. A preliminary hearing is NOT a trial. The standard is less and the court ruled the prosecution satisfied it.

            The credibility of the witnesses is an issue for the trier f fact at trial to consider in determining who to believe and who not to believe. The rest of your nonsense is simply making up arguments solely to make up arguments. Whether you believe him or not or believe them or not is irrelevant. You have not heard the evidence either at the preliminary hearing nor will you at trial.

            Your absurd comments about “magical memory erasure disease” are just so much trollish idiocy.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Dude, Juan’s a seasoned attorney and clearly, you are not. He’s making you look bad/stupid…

        • NotFan

          Show me the case where every single detail lines up, and I’ll show you a case where someone is lying. We are human beings, not machines.

          • philly girl

            yeah, but in 5 minutes?? how many inaccuracies could there be? They each were coming from where? who said what first? who punched first? Come on, really?

        • vorpal

          My husband was driving late at night one day when a series of unfortunate events led to a pedestrian getting hit and killed by a car in the lane next to us, perhaps ten feet away from our car.

          That was far less traumatic than being physically attacked, and still, it was traumatic enough that I have difficulty remembering some of the details of the event and what ensued afterwards, and that was three years ago.

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        Correct. Terror and pain obfuscate critical details..especially in rape victims. The brain wants to forget and not relive the moment.

      • Chip Whitley

        They didn’t have issues remembering events to get this to trial, or answering their own lawyer’s questions. They stumbled when cross-examined. I find it convenient they forget details when it pertains to the defense.

        • Dustin

          Are people still responding to Chip? Its obvious he’s either a troll or just too thick to get the mountain of evidence against his theory. Let it go, he refuses to accept that people don’t have photographic memories for traumatic experiences. You’re just feeding him.

        • MJ

          They’re not going to accept any challenge to how they’ve already decided this case should be. I generally disagree with you, but I’m secure enough that I don’t have to try to gang up with these other posters to try to obliterate your views.

    • Buster33

      A well-rehearsed story is often the sign of a lying alibi. I sincerely hope the three accused do some time in prison. They earned it.

      • Chip Whitley

        A lying alibi? Everyone on trail admits to being at the scene. Not sure what you mean by “lying alibi”

        • Buster33

          I meant that an honest witness can nevertheless be confused or inconsistent in trying to recall exact events – particularly when that person was in a terrifying situation, as these men were when they were harassed and attacked by a mob of middle class thugs.

          I was not referring to anyone in this case when I mentioned that people who can recite their testimony clearly, cleanly, and consistently might really just be polished liars.

    • MrBlifil

      It could also sound like someone was being subjected to aggressive cross-examination designed to make them feel stupid and ashamed. I’d like to see how you do under similar circumstances. Are you somehow suggesting a beating did not take place, no cheekbones were broken? Or do you believe the defendants are being somehow misidentified (which is surely the most charitable way to interpret what you seem to be implying) and that the real attackers are on the loose?

    • Jack Werner

      I would be skeptical of someone who seemed to have patt answer and seemed scripted.

      • Chip Whitley

        You can’t have scripted answers when being cross-examined. You don’t know what the defense is going to ask.

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          Oh, sure you can! ….to a great extent, anyway. You can predict the questions, especially if the prosecutor has ever been a defense attorney before. It’s called “prepping the witness”.

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        Exactly…someone else called that earlier, calling it a “lying alibi”. Judges and lawyers can sniff though out in a small minute.

    • NATHAN AMAL

      Chip-maybe, dumdum, the beating and cowardice displayed by the bigoted mob confused his recollection?

    • philly dude

      I wonder what the inconsistencies in his testimony are? I mean it wasn’t a planned murder…it was a spur of the moment altercation…..curious

  • Stantheman

    IGNORANCE… you don’t change people nor do people change.

  • MJ

    Sounds right to me. Whoever starts hitting first is the one who has to be prosecuted. And if some people get angry when they drink, that’s too bad. Like with drunk driving, it’s no excuse. One has to learn not to drink.

    • juanjo54

      Where did you go to law school? Tijuana? Here is the deal MJ, you stick your finger in my face. I push it away with my hand. Technically that is an assault by you – an offensive, threatening act which does not need to actually contact me. My response, pushing away your hand is a battery which is an offensive touching. Is my response to your action reasonable? Might be and might not depending on the circumstances and how a reasonable person might view those circumstances. If your responses to my pushing your hand away is to physically assault me along with the assistance of two of your buddies then the assault and battery the three of you have committed is an escalation of the initial act. Again whether your escalation was reasonable is an issue because self defense is a lawful defense. But the police do not get to determine that, the court does.

      The fact is that while one has the legal right to defend against a battery or even an assault, that response must be reasonable under the conditions which exist. Just as it would be impermissible to shoot someone who pushes your hand away from their face, it is also arguably unreasonable to gang up three on the person who touched you and beat him into the ground, breaking bones and placing him in the hospital. This is an unreasonable escalation of the events.

      Now the defense attorneys can make whatever arguments they wish to make to a jury explaining why they felt their actions were reasonable under the circumstances. But no one gets a free shot at beating down someone who offensively speaks or touches them. Unless they live in in redneckastan.

      • MJ

        I wouldn’t even go to Tijuana for one of your sombreros.

        • William Yates

          MJ, you were just assaulted with reason, so own it and learn from it. Juan made a fine argument.

          • MJ

            No he didn’t. He’s making ridiculous arguments that a defense attorney would make. I think (from what I know so far) that those three are responsible for both starting and escalating the violence, and nothing he said gets them out of that one.

          • William Yates

            You didn’t give yourself a lot of credibility with the Tijuana comment.

          • MJ

            Who first brought up Tijuana? Go back and read.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            MJ, leave off…..Juan made you look like an idiot again. Although I must say, you don’t need his help. You’re doing a fine job of being a moron all by yourself.

          • MJ

            You ! You’re just jumping in here because you don’t like me.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            I’ve never met you, so “liking” you or not is immaterial. I do think you are ill-informed and annoying. Oh, and did I mention ‘moron’, along the way? You just don’t argue well, that’s all.

          • MJ

            And you celebrate rape. And I bet you can’t find one post of mine that is “ill-informed.” “Annoying”: I’ll take as a compliment, as Copernicus was annoying to the Church at the time.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Uhm…most of them are ill-informed, or misinformed. One does not have to look very hard or very far. In particular, this last one: I do not celebrate rape; I abhor it, in fact. That does not change the fact that these people are going to most likely be raped in prison. My opinion on said rapes are immaterial.

          • philly gurl

            you joked about it and hoped it happened. you’re backtracking on your statements…..dumbass

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            I have an IQ of 154. ‘Dumbass’ hardly describes me. And yes, I can joke and backtrack about what I said anytime I want, especially when it relates to these vermin. I will say it again: I hope the get sodomized and raped in prison. Next…

          • Philly gurl

            John carl…..from the condescending tone you present with your comments one can only asdume that you are the most annoying of ‘mos–the ugly gay with no social skills and limited social circle who prides them self on being “in love with my [equally non-attractive] boyfriend who spend all of their time online -as evidenced your days and days of comments on this topic – because no one can tolerate your personality and ugliness

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Again, it’s Gian Carlo. I think my BF is gorgeous…and I think you need to get laid. You definitely have some hate issues that need to be f*cked out of you. I love the fact that I annoy you so much, and no, I have nothing better to do.

          • MJ

            hello ???

          • juanjo54

            MJ – I am not arguing that they did not commit the act. I was not there and neither were you so neither of us know what actually occurred. Based upon what I have read and heard so far it appears that these three committed the assaults. If I were the prosecutor I would argue that their escalation of an event, regardless of who started it was completely unreasonable under the circumstances. It does not matter who threw the first punch necessarily which is what I was pointing out.

            These three can argue that they were acting in self defense and try to convince a jury that their actions were reasonable under the circumstances. Personally based on what I know I would doubt they can show that.

            In other words MJ read what I write not what you want to believe I wrote.

          • MJ

            Scram, bigot. (Like you’re descended from elegant Spaniard Jews but Tijuana is nothing but trash..? You’re just another version of Manhattan gays who basically pretend to be WASPs and laughed at how may “mick’ firemen died on 9-11).

          • MJ

            Not that I think ALL defense attorneys are ridiculous, needless to say.

        • juanjo54

          MJ – I was born and raised in the United States as were both my parents. The only sombrero I own is a fedora. We did not come from Mexico nor did our ancestors. This may come as a shock to you but there are lots of people in this country who have Hispanic names who are not Mexican. In fact my ancestors [on my mother’s side were Ladinos, that is the descendants of Jews who lived in Spain from the time of the Roman Empire and who were expelled from that country in 1492 and are now found in the Middle East, the Balkan states, South & Central America, Italy and Greece and the United States. In fact one of my ancestors was a participant in the US Revolutionary War.

          • MJ

            No…you’re not from noble Spaniards. You’re just…….Tijuana.

          • juanjo54

            Sorry MJ, I am not going to get in an argument about where my ancestors come from with some dweeb on the internet.

          • MJ

            If your ancestors really were such people you wouldn’t be dweebing around the internet.

          • juanjo54

            Well MJ your comments say a lot more about you than it does about me.

          • MJ

            uh huh

          • philman

            MJ has been parroting for weeks now the line that something is wrong with this case because the victims chose to remain anonymous. Now that at least one has appeared in public and both names have been identified, he needs some new distraction to fight about.

          • MJ

            “Parroting” means you’re repeating somebody else. I decided on my own something was wrong with them not showing themselves. Which doesn’t mean I think something’s wrong with the case overall.

          • MJ

            BTW : Sorry you apparently look down on Mexicans.

          • juanjo54

            The fact is that they have to appear in public when they testify. MJ is making a mountain out of a molehill which is typical of internet trolls who have their own bugaboos to deal with which typically have little to do with reality.

        • brandonrg

          MJ, aside from your unprovoked racism, you can’t even read. juanjo54 is clearly saying that the group of three unreasonably escalated the situation and should still be held accountable for their actions, that beating someone and putting them into the hospital is not a reasonable response to someone pushing your hand away after you shoved it in their face.

          • MJ

            Then neither you nor he can read. That’s what I said initially. So the guy who fancies himself Phillip II was arguing over nothing.

          • Guest

            MJ, YOU referred to Tijuana first. Happy Holidays Alpha Hotel. Go figure that one out Captain Obvious.

          • MJ

            Nope. Go back up to the beginning of the thread. Second post. Read again.

          • William Yates

            Perhaps you should go to Tijuana MJ, you might gain a better education than the one you are evidently lacking. Who knows, you might even find some character and personality there. Maybe, just maybe you would also get the bonus dose of humility and creativity, self respect and that of your fellow man.
            I know that’s a reach, but I seriously think you might have some potential… you know, as a Human Being, the kind who doesn’t
            drag their knuckles on the ground. Give it a try MJ, who knows you might even like it.

          • MJ

            Blah blah blah…..But did you see who first brought up “Tijuana”as a negative element ?

          • William Yates

            You are a negative element MJ. Your argument is weak, just like your personality. This is likely your biggest claim to fame, arguing on a public forum. Ha, this is too easy. Good luck in Boys Town.

          • MJ

            Okay…someday you’ll grow up and take responsibility for when you were wrong.

          • William Yates

            MJ, that’s okay. I know who I am and where I’ve been, where I am going. Life is good and getting better every day. I have been wrong many times in my life, learned from it and moved on. This is where you lack understanding MJ. Stand up straight, own it and move on. It’s that simple. You might even make friends along the way. Happy Holidays MJ.

          • William Yates

            BTW…
            MJ, I own a house in Baja California, near Ensenada. Mexico is a wonderful place and the people are awesome. Just like the USA, there are good and bad people. While it’s true that Tijuana has a lot of negatives going for it, there is a vibrant beautiful energy to it’s people. Most border towns and cities have crime and poverty, an unfortunate aspect of Mexico’s poorly managed political system going back decades. It’s a shame but it’s getting better. As a Californian, I respect and honor the Mexican people who are among the hardest working people on Earth.

          • MJ

            Yeah. I own a house in Malibu. And another in France.

          • MJ

            And WHO first mentioned Tijuana as a subject meant to be a putdown ?

          • MJ

            Answer the f—ing question.

  • Joe

    Well if that’s the case, then hopefully the gay guys get charged with fighting as well. It was a fight, not a hate crime, as all you activists love to yell. Just because one side won does NOT make it an assault. And as one of the witnesses said, she was smacked first. Good on them for sticking up for her.

    • brandonrg

      There’s nothing in the story that indicates that the gay couple started the confrontation. Pushing someone’s hand out of your face who’s part of a group that’s confronting you on the street for no real reason doesn’t justify that group attacking you. Nothing in the story said that the woman was smacked first, so I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

      Starting a fight and then putting someone in the hospital does make it assault and battery.

      • Philly dude

        The details as to how the altercation had actually started is shady….I’m thinking the gay couple probably commented on one of the good looking gentleman in the group…and if they were at a BYOB restaurant he was probably trashed… not a good combo

        • Jake

          Guess it’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.

        • NATHAN AMAL

          youre dumb-no breeding please

        • brandonrg

          You’re thinking dumb things with zero basis for some reason, lord knows why. This was a couple going to get something to eat; why would they start cat-calling at some other guy? Do you start cat-calling other women if you’re out on a date?

          Regardless, unwanted street harassment is not grounds for putting someone into the hospital.

        • Brian Miller

          Where are the “good looking gentlemen in the group?” All I see are inbred-looking mouth breathers.

          • MJ

            Inbred ?? They don’t look inbred. They look quite healthy. (If you lived in NYC you’d know it’s Hasidic Jews that look inbred).

          • Brian Miller

            Thanks for the anti-semitism, but I find the notion that any of these blockheads look “healthy” and “attractive” to be rather laughable.

          • MJ

            Not anti-Semitic at all. Here in NYC the biggest critics of the (inbred) Hasidim are Jews.

          • Brian Miller

            On behalf of all NYCers, thanks for speaking on our behalf. We appreciate it.

          • MJ

            If you’re from here, you know what i’m saying is true, then. Remember homophobe Dov Hikind totally freaking when the subject came up ? (Anyway, I’m not on the side of those three. I’m just tired of people throwing the “inbreeding” term around without really knowing what it means or what indicates someone ‘has” it).

          • Brian Miller

            I’m sure the inbred people of the world, in addition to all New Yorkers, are honored at your passionate defense of vocabularianism.

          • MJ

            I doubt European Royalty is reading G Philly. (Though they almost have the inbreeding thing licked by now).

          • Brian Miller

            Don’t underestimate the power of Google!

    • James Windsor

      Homophobic much.

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      Not true. If the homophobes instigated and provoked the attack and the other two defended themselves, it is an assault that resulted in a fight. It’s called Provocation with Merit. Horse before the cart, please…

      • philly gurl

        have you seen the transcripts or records as to what occured before the attack? No, none of us have….keep your accusations to yourself unless you have proof otherwise. you dime-store lawyer

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          No. I don’t have to and you can’t make me. And since when is The Marshall Wythe School of Law at The College of William and Mary a ‘dime-store’?

    • Anthony Parello

      If it were just a fight they would have stuck around to tell the cops just that.

  • JB

    These people are scum and regardless of whether they’re found guilty – which they most certainly are, at least of the assault – I hope their lives are ruined, professionally and personally. I would spit in their faces, these pieces of trash.

  • Matt H

    Mr. Williams is kind of cute. I hope his cellmate agrees.

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      They are both pretty…from the moment they turned themselves in, I predicted that they would be VERY popular in prison. Too bad they aren’t charged with a Hate Crime, because then it would be FEDERAL prison, where the Big Boys are…

      • cp2895

        I don’t care what the defendants did; you do rape victims a serious disservice by joking about prison rape. Please stop.

        • NATHAN AMAL

          com e on-prison rape on people who have committed heinous crimes is VERY funny

          • MJ

            What Tony Perkins died of is never funny.

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          What a misguided response! You don’t CARE what the defendants did? They created victims themselves. I would love to see them become victims themselves: eye for an eye, you know. If not prison rape, then a good old fashioned daily ass-whuppin’ over the course of their 20-year prison sentence. You’re trying to sound gracious, but you’re not. And…who says I was joking?

          • cp2895

            Oh ffs. Yes. I care that the defendants did wretched things. That is bad, and they need to serve their time for what they did. Have I sufficiently cleared that up?

            The point I am making is that whenever someone is convicted of a crime, everyone always jumps in and says how they hope that the guy gets raped and wouldn’t that just be HILARIOUS! People may wish that prisoners in jail who have done terrible things to their victims may get hurt, beaten, killed whatever, but there’s something about prisoners getting raped that makes people giddy in a way that other things don’t, and inspires extra-sick jokes. It’s supposed to be extra demeaning, humiliating, all of that. That’s what you’re laughing at, not at the fact that a prisoner is getting his just reward in prison. And it’s that kind of attitude towards rape that still hurts rape victims, whether you want it to or not.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            I get your point; it’s well presented, and I respect it. In no way was I joking, “j/k” or “LOL”ing. I know rape is serious and abominable – and that victims of rape are scarred for life – just as the victims of these three defendants will be.

            The defendants made a choice to put themselves in a predicament/position where they could be put in prison, where bad things happen to bad people (look how briefly Jeffrey Dahmer lasted in prison after he was convicted). I will reiterate my PERSONAL opinion: That whatever happens to them in prison, be it isolation, rejection and ostracizing, beatings or forced prison sex is well-deserved, given the nature of their crime and imminent conviction. If they weren’t bad people, I would be more sympathetic towards them. Statistically, they will suffer more than other inmates, because they are, as I stated in my original post, “pretty” – in addition to being white, priveleged and an acute minority that you don’t typically find in the “gen. pop” of a prison – which is rife with all kinds of other minorities. Ironically, gays in prison are safer then these defendants’ demographic because minority and ethnic prisoners “tend to stick together” in prison pods and look out for one another – even when they would “hate” gays, or other blacks and Hispanics on the outside…

            Again, they chose to put themselves in that position…The wanted to play, now they gotta pay.

      • Phillygirl

        Very insincere. …ur pathetic…typical male

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          I was being VERY sincere: They are both “pretty boys” and are SO gunna get majorly butt-hurt when they get to prison. It looks like they’re each facing 20 years, so they are going to get butt-hurt for a LONG time, for which I am glad. It’s pathetic that you can’t see that….btw, what is a “typical male”? One who is pathetic and insincere? Lemme guess: You’re a typical lesbian, right?

      • MJ

        Disgusting. You should be stripped of that name and just called “john.”

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          I get called that a lot, although it’s totally not my name, by idiots who cannot pronounce my name correctly. More disgusting is what those “pretty boys” did to the gay couple, don’t you think?

          • MJ

            I SURE hope you’re not doing a play on Gian-Carlo Menotti…!

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Nope. I can’t direct an orchestra, so doing a play on my namesake, Maestro Menotti, would be impossible.

        • philly girl

          I know, it’s soooo “loook at me” I’m special….listen John Carl since we all know that’s your real name. Come of your high horse with your dime-store legal degree. We all know your wikipedia-ing your legal knowledge of trials minute-to-minute. lame.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            My name is not ‘John Carl’ any more than yours is ‘Philly Girl’. My posting name is my full, legal name. MJ seems to hate that, for some reason…

            And no, I have not been using Wikipedia at all for this discussion. Finally, my law degree cost MUCH more than what you can buy at a dime-store. You sound envious and bitter of someone who just might be able to carry on an intellectual discussion a little better than you can.

          • MJ

            I hate it because I have buds in Rome and visit regularly. I hold Italians to a high standard (though I’m not of italian descent myself). For you to kiss the butt of Anglo, who would call you a “greasy fly-swatting dago” is disgusting.

    • MJ

      You’d certainly hope Mr. Williams would eye YOUR butt with delight.

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        Again, MJ, if Mr. Williams is allegedly straight, why would he eye Matt H’s butt with delight? That would make him gay, and he wouldn’t have gay-bashed the two victims, now, would he have? You make no sense…

        • MJ

          I don’t think he’s straight.

        • MJ

          The fool Michelangelo Signorile is gay, and he admits gaybashing with his friends as a youth (to cover up for his desires).

  • FranktheMc

    The law will work things out. Maybe prison will stop these people from murdering someone.

  • Erik

    Horrible people.

  • Anglo DNA

    They’re going to have a great education in jail about tolerance and acceptance.

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      Hehehe….! They sure are!

      • MJ

        You, with that Italian name, should know better than to laugh at such a bigotted trashy statement.

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          MJ, what does my name have to do with what I laugh at, one and two: Anglo DNA’s comment was neither bigoted (note the correct spelling of the word, ‘bigoted’), nor was it trashy.

          • MJ

            Anglo ? You know what that means ? When these defendents went to Catholic school ? (Which SHOULD mean nothing). Do you know the hatred between Catholics and Anglo protestants in the U.S. ?

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Uhm…I thought that was Ireland. Haven’t experienced too much of it in this country myself…other than that which is purported by ignorant or bigoted people.

          • MJ

            Then you don’t live in NYC nor Boston.

    • MJ

      Wouldn’t you love to be kneeling before them ?

  • SF Michael

    “I’m sure one of the gay couple checked out one of the group members hard and made him feel uncomfortable…”?

    Oh, you’re sure of that are you? Were you there?

    Nice way to blame the victims!

    • philly dude

      No, I certainly was not….but can you prove it not the case. I’ve been the recipient of the stare and while I take it as quite the compliment, some people are not so receptive to it. Mix that with alcohol and you could have a HUGE problem

      • Kim Neill

        So what? An adult can’t ‘handle” being looked at? Personal responsibility. Grow up.

        • philly dude

          some can AND ignore it. but if slurred comments were thrown towards their female counterpart by 2, some people CAN’T handle that and retaliate in violence. Women slap men all the time. Should the defendants have slapped them back, the straight dudes DON’T always handle that. # THINK SISTER

      • Pedro Frederico

        Still doesn’t acquit the defendants of their actions.

      • bigstrummer

        If women crushed the facial bones of every man who stared at them, it’d be. . . an interesting world.

        These bigots have no excuse. Maybe in jail they will experience a little reverse discrimination courtesy of Bubba to get a taste of their own medicine.

      • vorpal

        It almost sounds like you’re trying to apply the “gay panic defence” here. Someone checking you out – even if it makes you uncomfortable – is not a justification for violence.

        And as others have said, there is no reason to believe that anyone was checking anyone out in this instance, and your presumption that they were based on the fact that they’re gay is insulting.

        • philly dude

          It happens alot, if there was any panic, I’m suggesting that there may have been some insults thrown around and if the defendants are the proud type probably resulted in physical violence and freaked when they realized it couldve been construed as a hate crime when they came to their senses.

      • philman

        Jesus, you’re sick.

    • philly dude

      not blaming the victims, just trying to suggest mitigating circumstances as opposed to the popular theories of 2 guys randomly thinking :hey, 2 gay guys….let’s beat them up” which seems a little misguided and misinformed. that’s for creatons, uninteliigent jobless individuals….not for a nurse and teacher. think people

  • Mel Gee

    So you are a brain specialist? Do you have links to articles you have written that have been published in medical journals about the brain during and after trauma? I’d like to read it to add it to my collection.

  • Ardow

    Hey Ms. Knott so how’s your daddy liking his little princess on trial for felony assault and conspiracy? Must really piss you off that Daddy couldn’t use his position as Cheif to get you off. I hope the trial judge throws the book at you especially when the jury finds your ass guilty as charged!! ROT IN HELL all 3 of you!

    • Sam_Handwich

      😀

      • kat

        I believe Ms. Knott was NOT charged with conspiracy.

  • Karen

    Clearly because the incident involved a gay couple, you’re “sure” that one of them just had to have been checking one of the guys in the group out…you’re an idiot. By no accounts by the alledged attackers or the victims was there any discussion related to anyone hitting on anyone or staring them down in any salicious or sexual way. Believe it or not, much like with straight people, just because someone of the preferred gender walks by you doesn’t mean that you are unequivocally attracted to them.

    • gaga4gaga4love

      Oh honey….we check everyone out!!!

      • NATHAN AMAL

        said the stupid annoying twink! No, WE all don’t actually…some of us have boyfriends

        • gaga4life

          yeah, but probably just because you’re not attractive enough to catch the eye of anyone else…I mean we all know the ugly 2 gays that are a couple because well, no one else wants them

          • vorpal

            LOL you are a complete idiot, and I’m willing to bet a troll.
            No, some of us are happy to find meaningful, loving relationships: it has nothing to do with being ugly. There are plenty of gay couples where both partners are extremely attractive.

            Sounds to me like you’re just a complete failure as a gay man.

          • philly girl

            girl….that is the TRUTH….I’ve met some pretty ugly gay couples that are gonna sit on their computers for the rest of their lives….it’s a shame

  • Why

    For the people saying that the judge wished the three evil criminals (who are unable to accept the fact that the world will never conform to their mind) “Good Luck” as a cordial meaning… if the Judge really meant as such then the Judge would not have allowed the law to hold the three spoiled idiots on ALL accounts against them. The “good luck” was likely meant as “Sarcasm” and “Don’t except to get out of this one.”

  • pauleky

    The characterization of the victim’s testimony is disturbing. If, in fact, his statements have been inconsistent, we could see some not guilty verdicts here. I truly hope not, but after recent poorly handled court cases, I would not be surprised. Thoroughly depressed, but not surprised.

  • Doug Williams

    hope they rot in hell!

  • kat

    I hope the consequences for these kids are just, meaningful and life changing.

    • Philly dude

      I as well kat….far too many people these days looking to make a name for themselves… people’s emotions are high and discrepancies in details.. can’t forget that we think we know them….but we dont… they may be good kids with a very bad absence of judement temporarily.

      • kat

        Oh, I don’t think they’re good kids. Crushed facial bones and calling someone a ” dirty……” , dunk or otherwise, is not a lapse of judgment. That is character territory. I suspect, as most of us do for good reason, that these are spoiled, coddled, sheltered, entitled, morally void kids raised by clueless parents who, in my opinion, bare the burden of their children’s savagery. My hope is not for them to rot in hell or jail. It is not for them to be assaulted in return. It is that their punishment is just and healing. For their hate. And for the victims.

        • bob c

          Well…when me and my cousins got into fights as kuds….you can bet I called him every name in the book. …and we broke several bones as kids during fights…and even street sports….arms, wrists, collar bones…..

          • kat

            These are 20 something year old adults walking through a neighborhood they are visiting. A neighborhood that is known to be home to a largely homosexual community. This was not kids roughhousing. This was not a game of street hockey. This wasn’t a gang fight. Two men going to get a pizza were taunted, outnumbered and beaten.

          • philly girl

            which is exactly why I am questioning the anti-gay stance that a large portion of people are claiming. When a person tries to get in to the nursing field or the teaching field, they rarely do it while hating an entire population of people. My suspicion is that these guys wouldve retaliated if the victims were gay, straight, bi, black, jewish or anything else. I question the motivation that they randomly assaulted a couple for being gay….i feel if insults were thrown, they attacked out of a superiority complex

          • HellYeah

            Put down the cake, fat hog.

          • DBow

            It sort of sounds like you’re proud of that??

      • Pedro Frederico

        A momentary lapse in judgment may lead you to say some very hurtful things. To pummel someone’s face until you break their facial bones is something much worse and entirely different. It shows complete lack of self-restraint.

        And mind you “good kids” don’t go out of their way to harass someone no matter why they decide to do it. “Good kids” would have intervened when three of their fellow mates decided to assault two other people. “Good kids” would have reported what happened to the police instead of leaving the scene and only showing up after having been id’ed.

        • kat

          Yes. Yes. Yes.

  • NotFan

    Once they’re in prison, I’m sure they’ll learn what it means to be “checked out,” and then some.

    • MJ

      i wouldn’t mind either of those guys checking me out. And neither would you.

      • NATHAN AMAL

        naw, redneck racist homophobic bigot is actually not very “in” this year…

        • MJ

          For gay men, that’s ALWAYS in.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            No, it’s not. But thank you for speaking for all gay men, MJ. Clearly, you know what we think and feel…

          • MJ

            Go to tumblr and look over some of the groups.

          • juanjo54

            the ones you mention do not exist, got any other bright suggestions? Unless of course you are talking about the one started by some redneck “chick” entitled I love redneck guys

          • MJ

            They do. You don’t know how to look.

          • MJ

            They’re all there. Straight Men Rule is another one.

          • MJ

            And at tumblr you’ll see : “I Worship Straight Men” ; “I Love Rednecks” ; “Pathetic Gays Worship Straight Nazi Skinheads” and a zillion groups just like those with endless members. Also, I know who the Anglo snobs in NYC sneak up to meet in the Bronx to pay for sex, and it sure ain’t the other Anglos.

          • juanjo54

            MJ – I am no interested in your sex life.

          • MJ

            My sex life, yes. And millions of others.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            That’s a generalization about fetishist groups…and not, I would hazard to say, not one that applies to mainstream homosexuals.

          • gaga4life

            oh yes, it is girl…I’ve seen peoples phones at wood’ys, ubar, and tavern….it’s a behavior of MEN to always be interested in sex. gay, bi, or straight….men are men and biology is biology

          • MJ

            That’s sort of true, I agree. But I also do know that most gay guys here would drop to their knees quick for either of these two “bashers.”

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        Why would two fag-bashing homophobic guys check you out, MJ?

        • MJ

          I’ve been with guys who look pretty much like that. And weren’t comfortable with their sexuality either. But the sex was awesome.

          • Gian Carlo Carattini

            Only because somehow, you may have managed to keep your mouth shut!

          • MJ

            Oh…my mouth wasn’t shut !

  • DBow

    A disgrace to my generation. I’m ashamed that we STILL haven’t gotten passed this idiotic hate. I hope they get what they deserve.

    • MJ

      Your generation has the highest murder rate of any since…probably…Genghis Khan’s…

      • NATHAN AMAL

        no-most murderers are in their 30s and 40s (not 20s)

        • MJ

          Over 106 black-on-black murders in Philadelphia this year, and the vast majority were in teens and 20’s. But I guess that’s two generations. But 30s and 40s is two generations too.

      • DBow

        Ok? Not sure what that has to do with what i said but..you’re wrong. The murder and violent crime rate has been going down since the 1990s according to the FBI crime reports.. highest number of murders per year in the past 50 years was in 1991..I was 3 years old. Nice try though.

        • MJ

          They’d have to drop FAR to release you from the distinction of being the most murderous generation. Like I said, in Philly alone…over 100 murders this year. Compare that to any generation (or ten years or so) past. (Nice try, though).

          • DBow

            Ok? So Philly is one city in one state in this country. .. but should base a whole generation on just that. That makes complete sense………….. wowza.

          • MJ

            Wowza. You’re the one who called this ONE incident in Philly a disgrace to your generation.

          • DBow

            Yep. I did. That doesn’t make anything you say true..i have debunked your claim via evidence and i don’t need to respond to your delusions. Have a lovely day!

          • MJ

            Go do another driveby (rolls eyes…ugh) Your generation.

          • MJ

            How about Detroit : St. Louis ; Camden, NJ ; Oakland…if we want to discus your murder rates..?

        • MJ

          And…look what you did at the Pakistan school yesterday. Wow.

          • DBow

            What I did? Boy you’re dumb. No use wasting time on idiotic “logic”.

          • MJ

            Your generation, right ?

  • Sam_Handwich

    they’re the poster goons for Catholic education

    • MJ

      Like vice President Biden.

  • Antony

    I am so confident (and upset by it) all three are getting off with no jail time. I’ll be utterly shocked with any other result.

    • NATHAN AMAL

      these are gay victims, not blacks-theyre going down

  • Bruce Brown

    Guess daddy can’t make it go away like the tickets. Rot in prison!

  • Sam_Handwich

    here’s #favoritechild leaving court with mommy and daddy

    #epic

    #shotsanyone?

    • NATHAN AMAL

      she looking a tad chunky

      • Sam_Handwich

        she’s binge eating in preparation for prison

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        How humiliating for those parents…especially knowing that we have all read her twitter account posts…

        • kat

          They failed their most important job.

      • Tommy Grover

        A few broom handles shoved in the right holes in a women’s prison will knock it off her.

      • tonybot3

        so let me get this straight… her attacking someone for a lifestyle choice is despicable, but its ok for you to attack her weight? Put YOU in jail too.

        • HellYeah

          She looks like she’s been inhaling too much cake!

  • NATHAN AMAL

    really? it actually happens thousands of times every year-hatred toward gays, blacks, jews-I hear 6 million jews were killed for no reason a few years ago…

    • MJ

      Muslims killed 130 Muslim schoolkids today.

  • crickett_4jc
  • crickett_4jc

    And the next time a bro like you checks a chick out and makes her feel uncomfortable she should just sick her guys friends on said bro and start throwing punches? Because THIS is how humans operate?? Dude, you need to grow up, Peter Pan.

  • Gian Carlo Carattini

    Just as Karen, stated…you’re an idiot.

    • philly gurl

      John Car;….you’re pretentious, annoying, and WRONG as always…..grow up girlfriend

      • Gian Carlo Carattini

        I am not your girlfriend, and my name is not John Carl, It’s Gian Carlo….Bitch.

  • KTSapphire

    This evil act will not go unnoticed or unpunished. It is so sad to see the disgusting brutality people still launch toward one another.

  • Rose

    But it was all a joke LOL! Right? T.H.U.G.S.

  • Denoma

    Riiiighht, there’s totally “no reason” why this group of partyers would attack a gay couple on the street. The attackers are just so great looking (see cute mug shots) that the victims just couldn’t help but “check out” one of the members as they strolled by. Mystery solved.

  • RICH

    WTF DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE STORY?

  • Glenn Davey

    Wow… no-one go to Philly. What an awful, awful place.

    • friendlynerd

      What a ridiculous conclusion to draw. 3 spoiled brats from the suburbs come in and mess with our own, and you decide it’s the city’s fault? Odd logic.

      • MJ

        But the murders IN Philly this year are over 100.

  • Buster33

    They attacked them because the men looked like a gay couple. Someone in the crowd of friends correctly identified them as a gay couple and the group began harassing the gay couple for being gay. The gay men stood their ground and were beaten severely for doing so.

    The three defendants deserve to do at least six months in prison for their misdeeds. It would be delightfully apt if one or both of the male defendants gets sodomized in prison.

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      The COULD get up to 20 years…

    • philly girl

      So…this group of defendants were so anti-homosexual that they walked through a gay neighborhood and randomly picked on a gay couple? People who frequent bring your own bottle restaurants don’t typically exert those type of preference #wakeup pointdexter

      • Buster33

        Take a good look at that young woman’s social media profile. She creates a public image of herself as an unrepentant lawless drunken thug. I can totally believe that she started the whole fracas by acting like a drunken bigoted bully. The details will all come out in the trial. I sincerely hope that she and her cohorts are convicted and sentenced. Daddy’s little homo-hating thug princess is due for a harsh slap of Reality in the face.

  • PopChips

    Utter trash. I hope all three are convicted and sentenced to the maximum.

  • Kim Neill

    Seriously? Checked them out? YOU are a moron.

    • gaga4life

      happens all he time, girl….we say it out loud and sometimes insult the girls their with…..#wakeupsisterits2014

  • mike

    End is near for the pictured trio!! – i thought there were even more involved in the bashing..hope all are punished!

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      They are the only ones charged so far….I bet there will be more, yes.

      • john

        there wont be more cause unlike the victims are stating, they were not ganged up on. it was an even fight that they lost

        • Jess Mee

          Says f-ing who?

  • KO

    I wonder if Mrs. Knott was weaping because the world now knows she raised a punk, thug for a daughter or that her punk thug daughter was being held accountable for likely the first time in her life?

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      I want to call “it the Weep of Shame”.

  • Andrew Althouse

    Just wonder.what would happen if this was reversed. If three gays ganged up on a heterosexual. Would the story be released or buried? I’m thinking due to PC, it would be buried. Therefore, I think this is all bull.

    • RichardWad2U

      Sounds like you need to get out the trailer park a little more, Cletus.

      • Andrew Althouse

        I’m sorry you feel that way bumpkin. But for your ignorance I shall reward you with knowledge. So what about the heterosexual couples who wanted a cake made by a gay but they rejected it? Seems like it is politically correct. Must be nice to be ignorant. Sadly this country believes in being politically correct. What about the first amendment? Doesn’t that give us the right to freedom of speech? While violence isn’t the best way to solve things sometimes it’s the most direct. So I guess freedom of speech isn’t a god given right if it goes against your way of life then.

        • RichardWad2U

          Andrew, you sound like a really pissed off fat guy. But congratulations. You are officially the first ignorant conservative that has been stupid enough to say openly that assault should be protected as free speech. Now crawl back into your bunker and fondle your rifle. It’ll calm you down.

        • HellYeah

          LOL…what an imbecilic tool you are. You’ve been tracked. See you in Dayton soon.

          Btw, Pat Murray says hello.

    • Brian Miller

      Thanks for calling attention to the awful crisis of straight bashing. Every millennium, handfuls of straight people worldwide are beaten into a pulp by roving gangs of gay people shouting phrases like “f*cking breeder.” It is an epidemic that is overlooked due to the crushing political correctness that dominates our society and let’s oppressed majorities like heterosexual people live in terror of being discriminated against or even assaulted just because they’re only similar to 95% of humanity.

      Worst of all, heterosexual people have little to no representation in media. Even the simple act of coming out as straight can get them exposed to hostile questioning about why they chose that lifestyle.

      Thank you for calling attention to what is possibly the most pressing issue of our time.

      • MJ

        Like with John Wayne Gacy.

        • Brian Miller

          Yeah, exactly. Your argument is exceptionally-well reasoned and not at all absurd.

          • MJ

            Anybody can be bullied or bashed by anyone else when he is outnumbered, or tricked. Heterosexuals don’t have the monopoly on cruelty.

          • Brian Miller

            Not much of a “point.” I was mocking the idea that “straight-bashing” is a frequent occurrence, and your discussion of a hypothetical situation doesn’t invalidate the fact that “straight-bashing” is hardly an epidemic situation or even something the average person will ever encounter.

          • MJ

            That’s probably true.

    • HellYeah

      Cool story, bro. Too bad you’re an imbecile.

  • CM

    Human trash, entitled white kids. I hope this is a stain on their life forever. This is 2014, there is no excuse for this hate.

  • John

    All this talk about the memory loss may be true but that is why eye witness testimony is some of the least substantial evidence you can have in a case. Right now its their word vs the attackers word and if they have memory loss of the event then how is the jury supposed to determine what is true and what isn’t. they need hard video evidence of this fight or these charges will not stick

  • http://aimaiameye.blogspot.com/ Aimai

    “good luck?” WTF?

  • Pedro Frederico

    “I’m sure one of the gay couple checked out one of the group members hard and made him feel uncomfortable.”

    You’re “sure”? Proof?

    Even if one of the victims had “checked out” one of the guys that wouldn’t warrant the violence that ensued and the fact is that homophobic attacks are often gratuitous.

  • brandonrg

    Better than being hospitalized by a mob for the crime of being gay?

  • Jess Mee

    “Being gay”, as in being physically and emotionally attracted to persons of the same sex.

  • Pedro Frederico

    “victim-by-default fairies” obviously comes from someone with an unbiased, fair perception of what happened, doesn’t it?

    And what happened is that two people got hospitalized after being pummeled by a group. And stolen, considering a bag of one of the victims’ belongings went missing and later showed up with a homeless guy.

    Just tell me exactly what is it that justifies assaulting someone so badly they could very well have been killed?

  • Pedro Frederico

    No, it isn’t. Stop trying to appeal to a faulty, fallacious logic. Violence sometimes is gratuitous, sometimes it isn’t. Hate crimes based on gender, sexual orientation or race exist. This was one of those cases. They were approached, provoked and attacked because of being gay.

  • Gian Carlo Carattini

    Being gay is not compulsory behavior.

  • bigstrummer

    You mean “compulsive”, you idiot.

    Not “compulsory”. What a dimwit. I suspect you are a closeted homosexual who lashes out in order to deny your true self.

    • etiquette

      Pretty sure the only “closet” is his mom’s basement…

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      Dear bigot, English is not the first language for 95+% of the world you live on.

      And believing a desire to be inalienable to your “true self” is pleading insanity.

      And Sigmund Freud is deader than disco.

      So yeah.

    • vorpal

      Ick. I find that insulting: don’t try to shove this human garbage off onto us gay men.

  • Justin Price

    I’m confused on some things about this. First, obviously gay bashing is wrong, I’ve seen some cases that are absolutely disgusting. Having not seen a video or anything, I can’t exactly know what happened. Going off of the victim’s statement though, it just seemed like a 2 on 2 fight that they instigated as well. The 2 guys and the girl approached them, one made a smart remark. He made one back, which was then countered with another smart remark, and he again made a smart remark back. The guy pushed him, he pushed the guy back, and the fight broke out. A fight which they lost. They should have just kept walking, and ignored the bigots. Their pride got the best of them this time.

    • Gian Carlo Carattini

      There was 28 of them in the attacking posse…these three were the only ones that have been charged so far.

      • philly girl

        there were 3 in the attacking. they were travelling in a larger group, not a posse. stop envisioning circumstances that misconstrue your :theory’. Facts only please.

        • Gian Carlo Carattini

          Why? It’s much more fun to envision circumstances and further vilify these thugs. Quit being suck a stick-in-the-mud!

    • MJ

      My guess is that insults went back and forth, but one of the three actually struck first. Then the trio (two guys and one girl) beat up the two gay guys (who i guess were no match for them) and…thus these three are being prosecuted….which seems fair to me..

      • Philly dude

        Well. ..had anyone ever seen a tough gay punch? I sure as heck haven’t. …one of them would’ve been enough….

        • MJ

          well…..i don’t even know what these two guys looked like

          • philly dude

            very true….but as assault only….I’m seriously questioning the fact that it’s a hate crime simply because these 2 guys were gay. My suspicion is that they outwitted these 2 guys and the guys were upset. Hence, possibly why they avoided turning themselves in….because the public would turn it into a hate crime against gays. People are way too quick to attach meaning behind things which their might not be these days.

          • MJ

            Okay. Well…..leave it to the courts to figure that out.

          • HellYeah

            Are you an imbecile?

  • Max Vincent

    Please put the crack pipe down. You’re embarassing youself.

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      Stop projecting your failings into others. You are embarassing every sane person.

      • vorpal

        No, you are embarrassing every sane person by trying to pass yourself off as one.

  • HerpyDerpDerp

    Sure. Would you like it in a sentence?
    Upon receiving verbal confirmation that the couple was in fact, gay, the three defendants proceeded to assault the couple, by simple virtue of them being gay; while the criminal charges that followed in turn angered Sprickolo, the old coot down the street who hates them gays and their walkin’ around bein’ all gay.

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      You seem very determined to live up to your name.

  • ArmedPatriot

    I personally think two guys poking each other is gross but no one has the right to harass or assault someone for what they do in their bedroom. Its time for gays to start packing a gun and dropping dirt bags who attack them for no reason

    • HellYeah

      Way to go, dude. Get over the “gross” part, but you’re on the right track.

  • etiquette

    I think your homophobia is showing…

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      I think your unhealthy attraction to nonsense words is showing.

  • Luna

    People you’re getting off topic. This is a hate crime. You can’t fight hate with more hate. It’s like trying to brighten a room, by covering the windows. :/ These young men are terrified, they were attacked, regardless of whom attacked them, they deserve support. It could have been anyone. It could have been you, or your child, your best friend, your little niece, and it could have been so much more horrific. So instead of fighting each other, fight our real enemy. Hate.

    • MJ

      Gays hate other gays more than ANYONE if they don’t follow the Rules of the Gay-Gay.

  • MJ

    It would be good for G Philly if this case goes on and on. No matter how good their articles are on other varied subjects, this is the only one the posters seem to want to jump all over in a hate-glee-fest. From no comments to a couple hundred.

  • vorpal

    …except for the whole fact that being gay is a behaviour like having blue eyes is a behaviour.

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      So you can tell if someone is “gay” by his looks?
      What a moron.

      • vorpal

        You can sometimes guess whether or not someone is gay by their looks, but you may be wrong. People do it, however, all the time.

        Also, you can generally tell that someone is gay from obvious signs, such as holding hands with their partner.

        I’m fairly certain that I’m smarter than you and have the credentials to back that claim up if you want to start an intellectual pissing contest, buckaroo.

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          In which the gay nationalist tries to allude to the stereotypes he’s supposedly fighting against.

          So much for the “intellectual pissing contest”.

          • vorpal

            I realize that reading comprehension is not your strong suit, but perhaps you missed the “but you may be wrong. People do it, however, all the time.”

            Also, sometimes being tightly engrained in a community means you adopt some mannerisms commonly expressed in that community, so yes, some gay people do meet stereotypes or may dress in a way that indicates that they are gay (e.g. pride jewelry). Many don’t, but it would be foolish to lie and say that those stereotypes or visual cues for homosexuality have no basis in reality.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            In which gay nationalist strongly impies that he can’t tell apart sexual desire from either the mainstream gay culture or the gay political movement.

            Your commenting is a hate crime against reason.

          • vorpal

            This isn’t that complicated. Homosexuality is defined by romantic and sexual attraction. People form communities around traits that they share. The communities do not define the traits: the traits unite the community.

            The gay political movement is in response to unjustified stigma and discrimination against LGBT people. Again, it is the result of gay people demanding equal rights, and does not define homosexuality.

            The fact that you have to end each comment with a douchey little jab is both hilarious and pathetic.

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            The communities do not define the traits: the traits unite the community.

            Or so the discredited, counterfactual solipsist mantra goes.

            The sad fact is, a person who declares the mere presence of attraction in itself inalienable grounds to be driven by it, and being driven by it as a “trait of his people”, is essentially pleading insanity.

            This puts the talk about “unjustified stigma” and “demanding equal rights” into unsettling light.

          • vorpal

            Ummm… where exactly did you get the idea that “the mere presence of attraction in itself [sic] inalienable grounds to be driven by it”? People – gay or straight – can certainly choose to be celibate. Frankly, though, I see no compelling objective reason why a gay person should make that choice.

            Most people – and especially men – are driven by sex, regardless of sexual orientation. To try to suggest otherwise is insanity, and holding gay people to some standard that you don’t hold heterosexuals to is doubly insane.

            How, exactly, does any of this suggest that gay people opposing stigma and demanding equal rights is remotely unsettling?

          • Pedro Frederico

            “Your commenting is a hate crime against reason.”

            Projection much?

          • Sprickoló Tömegek

            Persecution complex much?

  • vorpal

    Being gay: being homosexual, i.e. experiencing romantic and sexual attraction exclusively or predominantly for members of the same sex.

    No behaviour required. I was just as gay as a 12 year old virgin as I was when I first had sex at age 19.

    • Sprickoló Tömegek

      Which is utterly meaningless in a social context.

      • vorpal

        Clearly, it isn’t meaningless when people are regularly beaten and sometimes even killed over the fact that they’re gay.

      • Pedro Frederico

        You keep repeating the same thing even after being presented with a response to it. You’re either autistic or just moronic. I think everyone here will pretty much agree to the latter.

        • Sprickoló Tömegek

          If you ignore how garbled the “response” is, yeah.

          You seem emotionally invested in such ignorance.

  • Pedro Frederico

    You mean, the same way you suggest they were trying to perpetrate a hoax just because a lesbian waitress did so? You keep hinting at whose fault was it, but you weren’t there either, so I’m assuming you have some level of prescience OR you’re just making assumptions based on the victims’ sexual orientation and your own prejudice.

    “And I am still waiting for someone to coherently explain what, if anything, “being gay” might mean.”

    You mean you’re discussing a crime who you keep hinting is to blame on the victims, but yet without fully understanding the reasons that led to the crime itself? I mean… that would take a special kind of dimwit!

    But there there, be at ease – I’ll give you the next best thing to a drawing: being gay as in sexual orientation – an innate trace of sexual behaviour, while being attracted only to people of the same sex. And being attacked for being gay as there are people who think being gay is both repulsive and wrong, even if it doesn’t affect them in the least their lives or that of others.

  • Pedro Frederico

    A few days ago a lesbian in Oporto, Portugal, was entering a cab early in the morning after a night’s work. She had kissed her girlfriend goodbye and after entering the cabbie first denies her service. Then he proceeds to jerk her out of the car and relentlessly punch her. He then proceeded to drive away, since hers was the only formal complain presented at the local police department.

    The cabbie was already suspended from service, and he’s under legal process for his crime and yet there are people who actively seek out to blame and suggest she was to blame somehow because… well, she must’ve done something to deserve it.

    And it’s the same thing here. Homophobes are of such a simple, linear, child-like mindset that if gay people are attacked, they must have done something to deserve it. Same type of crime, same motivation, but in the eyes of homophobes the victims must be to blame because they must have done something to deserve it, because, after all, they’re gay, and if being gay is wrong, they either deserved or did something to be attacked.

  • David Tanner

    The truth will out and the perpetrators of this violence will most likely be forced to engage in many of the same-sex acts they claim to find so repellant once they are incarcerated. Sometimes the universe rights the wrongs we inflict on others in a most fitting way.

  • Donnie

    These awful people. Too bad they won’t be in jail for the holidays.

  • yeahok

    Wasn’t there twelve people in the group? What happened to the other nine?

  • Clay Cain

    They all look so sad… :)

  • leekohler2

    Lock these three up and throw away the key. They don’t deserve their freedom.

  • Ken

    When is this trial happening? I thought it was supposed to be on the docket for this past Tuesday, January 6? Did they cop a plea?

  • johnnyboyjohn

    Good luck getting a decent job, losers. Your face is plastered all over the place and your reputation precedes you. Gee, was it worth it?