Zone Read, Eagles-Giants, the Day After

mccoy_400102713Editor’s note: The Zone Read is a weekly feature that will publish the day after every game some time before noon. It will feature dispatches from the locker room, thoughts on what went down, play breakdowns and more. If you have feedback or suggestions, e-mail Sheil at skapadia@phillymag.com.

***

Through the first four weeks of the season, the Eagles’ offense had something to hang its hat on: the run game.




LeSean McCoy was gashing opponents - 468 yards on 78 rushes (6.0 YPC). The scheme was sound. The blocking was great. And the marriage between McCoy and Chip Kelly's offense looked like one that would carry the Eagles all season long.

Many coaches break the season up into four-game segments. And the second quarter for the Eagles has produced a ground game that looks pedestrian. In the last four, McCoy has carried 78 times for 265 yards (3.4 YPC). Yesterday against the Giants, he carried 15 times for 48 yards (3.2 YPC). In the first half, he managed just 7 yards on six carries.

"I just gotta try to be more consistent, making plays when plays are granted, taking them," said a frustrated McCoy, standing at his locker in front of a group of reporters. "Today was a little better, but not good enough. I had so much success against the Giants for so long, so it bothers me. I’ve gotta get it going. It starts with me. I need to make better decisions, which I’m not."

Asked if he's trying to do too much, McCoy said: "I think it’s a little bit of that, doing my own thing sometimes and just not making the plays. The plays, they’re there, they’re available. Just not getting it done."

In the first matchup against the Giants, McCoy managed just 46 yards on 20 carries. At the time, it looked like one bad game where the opponent deserved credit. But weeks later, it's looking like it might have been the start of a trend. In the last two games, McCoy has carried 33 times and has failed to notch a run longer than 10 yards. His last big-play run of 20+ yards came in Week 3 (a span of 94 carries).

McCoy clearly needs help, from his coach and his blockers. But Kelly indicated after the game that his running back is leaving yards on the field.

"The box was the same count," Kelly said. "So there was still a hat for a hat. Sometimes we've got to hit it up in there and kind of take what they give us. There were a couple times we got it moving there in the beginning of the second half, but it's not consistent enough for us to win football games."

There will be plenty of chatter about the quarterback situation this week, but the truth is that problem is unlikely to be solved until the offseason.

Kelly brought a run-first spread offense from Eugene to Philadelphia, and that's what defenses game-plan for every week. But for the Eagles to be successful, they need to get McCoy and the ground game back on track.

"It's certainly frustrating," McCoy said. "I think the loss is the biggest reason. The second reason is not being a factor and helping our team out. We have to find the answer and put this together. These losses are piling up and this is not fun. It's hard to really get together as a team when we keep losing like this. We work so hard, week in and week out, and the results are just not good. We just have to find an answer and get it done."

***

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN...

1. Why Kelly tried an onside kick with 4:11 left in the fourth quarter?

We went over some of Kelly's decisions on Sunday. But the one that really had me scratching my head was the onside kick. The Eagles trailed 15-7 and had one timeout remaining. Regardless of the decision, you need a stop from the defense, preferably a three-and-out. But with the onside kick, you risk the Giants adding a field goal and making it a two-possession game.

You also pretty much guarantee yourself poor field position on the ensuing offensive possession, even if the defense does come up with a stop.

If Kelly was committed to the onside kick, why not at least disguise it? The Giants have been a disaster on special teams. Why not line up like you're kicking it off and then try to catch them off-guard? Maybe they'd be ready for it, but at least you give yourself more of a shot. According to Advanced NFL Stats, onside kicks are successful 26 percent of the time. When teams are expecting them, that number is 20 percent. When they're not, it's 60 percent.

Just didn't like the overall sequence here when the team had an outside shot of tying the game.

2. What Korbee's connection to Philadelphia is?

That's the folksy songwriting duo who sang the National Anthem. I admit to being way behind on the latest happenings in the world of music, but I could have used some more detail when these two were introduced.

Luckily, I was able to do a little online research and found that Korbee will be singing the National Anthem once again in a couple weeks when the Eagles play the Packers at Lambeau. If the Eagles fail to score a touchdown in that game, I'm trademarking the Kurse of Korbee.

***

THE NO-22

We don't get the coaches tape until Tuesday, but let's take a look at one of the game's critical plays: Matt Barkley's red-zone fumble in the second.

The Eagles set up with two stacked receivers to the left, but they're going to use jet sweep action with Riley Cooper.

fumble1_no22_102713

This sets up a one-on-one with DeSean Jackson against the cornerback.

fumble2_no22_102713

You can see 10 of the 11 Giants defenders are focused on the run-action. But cornerback Terrell Thomas is unblocked (by design). Barkley executes the fake and runs a bootleg to his left. But Prince Amukamara does a good job on Jackson, and Thomas stays at home.

fumble4_n022_102713

It's only a two-man route. Barkley looks for Jackson, who is covered. So is the tight end. But instead of throwing the ball away, he tries to buy time. Barkley actually avoided Thomas the first time, but then was caught from behind, stripped and fumbled.

Linebacker Jacquian Williams did an amazing job of jumping over Barkley and staying in bounds to recover the ball.

The Eagles were 2 yards away from going into halftime trailing 12-7. Instead, they turned it over and would never get that close to a touchdown in the second half. Barkley should have gotten rid of the ball sooner. But once he felt the pressure from Thomas, he should have protected it and taken the sack.

***

THE NUMBER THAT MATTERS

1 - The number of pass plays of 20+ yards the Eagles had against the Giants. Michael Vick and Barkley averaged a combined 4.3 YPA. The only big pass play was a 25-yard completion to Jason Avant.

Entering Sunday's game, the Eagles had 36 pass plays of 20+ yards. That was the highest number in the league. Success in the passing game through the first half of the season has come on big plays. As a team, the Eagles are only completing 56.7 percent of their passes (28th). Given the quarterback situation, the offense has been unable to efficiently move the ball downfield through the air.

***

GAME BALL OFFENSE: NOBODY

I said last week that on weeks where the offense fails to reach double-digits on the scoreboard, no offensive player is getting a game ball. We'll try again next time.

GAME BALL DEFENSE: CARY WILLIAMS

The Eagles' cornerback had probably his best game of the season. By my count, Williams was targeted six times and gave up three completions for a total of 12 yards. He was tested twice in the end zone and once more on a deep ball, but had excellent coverage on all three occasions.

On the throws in front of him, Williams did a good job of limiting YAC, once stopping a screen for no gain.

And one more thing: After Vick was pulled, he sat on the bench by himself. All the offensive players were standing on the sideline, ready in case they needed to go into the game. The defensive players were gathered on a separate bench, going over instructions with their position coaches. But Williams made a point to walk over to the quarterback, who sat with a towel over his head and offer some words of encouragement.

"I just asked him what was going on, just to see if he was alright," Williams said. "I was trying to be a good teammate. He’s a leader. He’s a guy that we lean heavily on each and every week, make sure that he’s alright. He told me some bad news. I told him to keep his head up and continue to work hard, which he’s been doing and he’s gonna continue to do. And that was the extent of our conversation."

On a day when many Eagles struggled, Williams had a nice afternoon.

***

THAT'S WHAT HE SAID...

"I’ve been a part of enough now that it's to the point where you get tired of losing at home. Not only have we lost the game, we’ve lost some of our fans too. They’re not getting up on third downs as much. We would love to have that defensively, especially when we're playing the way we're playing. It'd be great. But I don’t know that we’ve given ‘em anything to cheer about, anything like that. But at the end of the day, you want to come out, you want to win your home games. You want to play your best football at home. Unfortunately we haven’t been able to do that as a collective unit." - CARY WILLIAMS

A reporter began to ask Williams about the 10-game home losing streak and prefaced his question by acknowledging that Williams wasn't here last year, but the new cornerback has now been a part of four defeats at the Linc.

***

FIVE RANDOM THOUGHTS

1. I think Kelly needs to re-think his process for determining Alex Henery's range on gamedays. The way I understand it, Henery practices kicks during warm-ups, and special teams coach Dave Fipp tracks his range. During the game, when Kelly has a decision to make, he checks in with Fipp, and they go from there.

Yesterday, with 9:20 left in the third, the Eagles faced a 4th-and-10 from the Giants' 32. Instead of attempting a 49-yard field goal, Kelly decided to go for it. To be clear, I don't really have an issue with the decision, but Kelly's explanation focused on the wind. The only problem? Giants kicker Josh Brown hit a 44-yarder (with room to spare) going in the same direction earlier in the game.

It's tough to figure out what kind of confidence Kelly has in Henery. Last week, he sent him out for a 60-yarder. But this week, he didn't think Henery had much of a shot at hitting a 49-yarder. The issue might be as simple as: The Eagles need to upgrade at kicker in the offseason.

2. I feel the need to take full responsibility for the Eagles' struggles at home. The last time the Eagles won at the Linc, I was in a hospital room at the University of Pennsylvania the night before we welcomed our daughter into the world. Not much was going on with the wife that night (I know, easy for me to say). Medical personnel would come in every so often, but there wasn't a lot for me to do. The next day was when the chaos really began. So I went ahead and turned on the Eagles-Giants game (actually, if I'm being honest, I just changed the channel. We had the earlier games on too.). According to my wife, at one point a nurse actually asked me turn the volume down.

Since that game, the Eagles have lost 10 in a row at the Linc. The little one now has four teeth, can crawl all over the place and even pulls herself up. She turned 1 earlier this month, yet has never been alive for an Eagles home win.

It's the Curse of Baby Kapadia. Apologies from the whole family.

3. Kelly did not sugarcoat his answer when asked what the problem was with the Eagles' offense.

"When you're not settled at that position in this league, you better have a quarterback," he said. "And right now we're unstable at the quarterback spot and we are not playing well at the quarterback spot. And we lost our two games because of it."

Ouch.

Having a sub-par group of receivers outside of Jackson doesn't seem to bother Kelly. And his expectations for the defense seem to generally be pretty low. He just needs that side of the ball to be adequate.

But I get the sense that not having a QB he can depend on to run his offense is killing him. And that makes me wonder if the Eagles might do something drastic during the draft to acquire their QB of the future. Depending on how the rest of the season goes and who decides to come out, the Eagles might not be in position to select the guy(s) they want if they stay put. If Kelly identifies someone like Marcus Mariota, it would not surprise me in the least to see the team move aggressively to land him. Maybe even an RGIII-ish type offer, depending on how the next couple months go.

Of course, given the need for QBs around the league, it might not matter what they offer. But Kelly doesn't strike me as a patient man, especially when his offense is stalling. That could lead to some offseason fireworks for this franchise.

4. It's a very strange season for the NFC East. The Cowboys and Redskins lost yesterday. No team in the division is above .500. The Cowboys are at 4-4, and the Eagles at 3-5 are in second place, one game back. While some fans are content with the team losing games and improving draft position, those feelings don't exist in the locker room.

The sense I get from players is that they're disappointed and frustrated, but not panicked. The truth is, given the state of the other teams in the division, unless the Eagles really tank (which is possible), the playoff window is going to stay cracked open at least slightly late into the year.

5. The defense has allowed 18.3 points per game in the last four. We'll get a better sense of how far Billy Davis' crew has come when/if the offense puts up points and opponents feel more of an urgency to score. But defensive players seem to be gaining confidence in the new scheme.

"Overall Billy is calling really good games," said DeMeco Ryans. "He's doing a good job, our assistant coaches are doing a good job preparing us throughout the week, and it is all coming together as a defense."

***

SNAP COUNTS

The offense:

 
Total Snaps
Percentage Of Snaps
QUARTERBACKS
Matt Barkley4472%
Michael Vick1728%
RUNNING BACKS
LeSean McCoy5285%
Bryce Brown915%
WIDE RECEIVERS
DeSean Jackson5895%
Riley Cooper5387%
Jason Avant4879%
Jeff Maehl813%
Damaris Johnson35%
TIGHT ENDS
Brent Celek4066%
Zach Ertz2744%
James Casey711%

Nothing too noteworthy. Bryce Brown continues to see a diminished role. He ran three times for -1 yards. Zach Ertz played a decent amount (27 snaps), but had just one catch for 5 yards on four targets. James Casey played seven snaps, his second-highest total of the season. He had one 11-yard grab.

All five offensive linemen played 100 percent of the snaps.

The defense:

 
Total Snaps
Percentage Of Snaps
DEFENSIVE LINE
Fletcher Cox6385%
Cedric Thornton4865%
Isaac Sopoaga4764%
Clifton Geathers1419%
Vinny Curry1216%
Bennie Logan1115%
OUTSIDE LBs
Connor Barwin74100%
Trent Cole5676%
Brandon Graham1824%
INSIDE LBs
DeMeco Ryans74100%
Mychal Kendricks74100%
CORNERBACKS
Cary Williams74100%
Bradley Fletcher74100%
Brandon Boykin2736%
SAFETIES
Nate Allen74100%
Earl Wolff74100%

The Giants did not spread the Eagles out a lot, and as a result, Brandon Boykin was only on the field for 27 snaps.

Isaac Sopoaga played a season-high 47 snaps. Vinny Curry was only on the field for 12.

Seven defensive starters played 100 percent of the snaps: Ryans, Mychal Kendricks, Connor Barwin, Williams, Bradley Fletcher, Nate Allen and Earl Wolff.

***

GUESSING THE LINE: RAIDERS (-4.5)

The guess here is that the Eagles are underdogs as they travel to Oakland. The line could be even bigger if Barkley is named the starter, which seems like a real possibility.

The Raiders are 3-4 and coming off of a 21-18 win over the Steelers. They are 3-1 at home and beat the Chargers by 10 in Oakland a couple weeks ago.

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  • Will

    Offensive woes continue, the player’s on Offense can’t get it done
    without a healthy Vick. The O-Line is showing it’s age and Kelce is way
    to small. McCoy is the only real threat and teams are taking him out of
    the game. WR’s can’t beat man coverage. So teams will continue to load
    the box against the run, gonna be an ugly stretch till Vick gets back.
    Even with a healthy Vick this Offense can struggle against good
    Defenses. I am all for tanking to go after Mariota, sad part is they are
    losing because the team is that bad. Tanking not required. Vick will
    need 4-6 weeks to heal up now this team is going nowhere fast. Unless
    Foles gets healthy and puts together some stellar performances back to
    back.

    The Gnats figured out just to Nut Stunt on Defense to shut down the
    inside zone read option play, till the Eagles figure it out teams will
    continue to stunt on Kelce. This forces the run game to the outside zone
    read plays, thus making it a one dimension run game. With out a threat
    of a running QB Defenses key on McCoy all day. Neither Foles or Barkley
    have shown they can beat man coverage unless any of this changes the
    Eagles will continue to have Offensive woes and I suspect continue to
    lose.

    Kelce got beat by the NT Nut stunts all game from player’s that weigh
    350 lbs. or more. This occurred in two Gnats games and is out there on
    film. Other teams should follow suit and if they do you have no inside
    zone read play which is what the Offense is predicated on that 1 play.
    There is no option without Vick to run the ball so they key in on McCoy
    kinda defeats the purpose of the whole play. So Chip has to re-do the
    blocking scheme and have Kelce crash down on the side McCoy lines up on
    and reassign the blocking scheme.

    All Oakland has to do is Nut Stunt Kelce disrupting our run game zeroing
    in on McCoy, and take away the short passing game like Dallas did. Thus
    rendering the Offense ineffective again. The blueprint is out there on
    film. Barkley’s weak arm makes it hard to throw deep with out an
    interception lacks zip on his passes.

    Barkley can be effective with the short passing game. Soon as teams take
    away the underneath stuff Barkley will struggle going deep with the
    ball. Strap in gonna be ugly with no run game if Oakland takes a page
    out of Gnats defensive playbook .

    Without the inside zone read option play and lack of the deep pass
    threat. The Offense is dead in the water. Neither Foles or Barkley are
    consistent going deep to the outside so Djax becomes ineffective. I
    don’t think they win either unless they get the inside zone read option
    play going and hit on deep passes to stretch the Defenses the Eagles
    face.

    • 1972

      I see some of reid like moments with chip. whats with the shot gun on third and 1??? if you cant get a yard with a 3 tight end set, then you shouldn’t be coaching

    • Adam

      Did you just copy and paste everything you said in the last post?

      • Will

        Yeah put all my thoughts down….bummed…ugly losses 3 points in 2 games…….up to Chip to figure it out…Foles or Barkley can’t throw deep with accuracy….so this Offense is easily defended if you take away the inside zone read play…

    • ztom6

      Mariota would be awesome to watch as a runner, but he’d need time to develop as a passer. I’d rather have a guy who is NFL-ready as a passer who can also run a little bit.

      • Will

        Not true Marcus Mariota is a great passer in this Offense. and a great runner with 4.48 40 speed…

        • Token

          Id be a backer of getting him at this point, but he needs work as a passer. Not that he sucks at it or anything. But his mechanics need work to be more consistent.

          But I want no part of running the QB being the centerpiece of the offense.

        • ztom6

          He has great arm talent, but the offense he plays him doesn’t ask him to do the things he’d need to be able to do in the NFL in the passing game. He doesn’t take NFL drops, doesn’t have great footwork, isn’t asked to throw into tight windows, etc. There’s a good reason why Kelly sought out Shurmur, Lazor, etc for his staff.

      • 1972

        I don’t want my qb running more than 2 or 3 a game really. Accurate strong arm is the number one quality. Runners get hurt. Definitely no johnny football

        • cliff henny

          never takes long for someone to bring up his name.

          • GEAGLE

            Johnny football will be a Kansas City cheif….sorry cliff. Condolences bud lol

          • Richard Colton

            with the 32nd pick in the NFL draft, the Superbowl Champion Kansas City Chiefs select…

          • cliff henny

            peter pan

          • Andy124

            I hear he’s undersized, but has a high motor.

          • cliff henny

            was texan yesterday. hey, good thing about why they are playing last 2 games, it brings mariota and bridgewater into mix. manziel is 4th on my wish list, please dont think he’s my top choice. i enjoy watching him play, so try to disspell some of the negatives people toss around about him.

          • GEAGLE

            I amended my texans prediction immediately over at Lawlors, guess in forgot to do it here,,,,it’s too ANDY Reidish….Johnny football is destined to be a cheif…cliff, “your my boy blue” I’m just breaking them for you

          • cliff henny

            if we are 5-7 pick, he wont even be an afterthought for me. who knows, he might drop to 2nd round…then a dream pairing of texas a&m boys, evans and JM.

          • GEAGLE

            I’m ok with using a second round pick on a QB….but in round 1, we need a probowler, we need to draft a guy who is THE BEST prospect at his position…I have no desire to draft the 4th QB, I. Want the FIRST WR, or FIRST DL, or OLB

          • theycallmerob

            The real question is, do you think we’ll be bad enough to get one of those top guys (or willing to trade the house)? Or is Kelly going to grab some playmakers on both sides? I feel as though I could go either way at this point; I don’t see how even the most talented QB would thrive on this team right from the start.

          • cliff henny

            my case for JM was assuming we were picking 12-15. to get to 3 or 4 was going to be ridiculously expensive. 5 wins (figure eagles will have easiest strength of schedule-be 1st 5 win team picking) that 5th or 6th. clowney is going top 2, barr is top 4. means someone will be in range. moving from 5-3 to get MM or TB, in a freaking heartbeat!!!

          • theycallmerob

            There are 2 good T’s (Lewan and Matthews); a few good OLBs (Barr, Mack, Mosley); pry 3-4 QBs going in the top 10; 3-4 big WRs; and a couple of tempting DBs, plus Clowney of course.

            Maybe the year we trade back if there’s no way to get “Kelly’s QB”?

          • cliff henny

            i can see no way they leave ’14 draft without qb. if manziel is guy, let’s say, and can move back 3 spots (or, he could really pummet, like a smith-never know), or stick and hundley will probably fall to them, or move up 2 or 3 spots to get TB or MM, till kelly gets qb, just a team in limbo.

          • GEAGLE

            Stay away from the DBs this year….I mean, Clinton Dix is THE only DB I would be ok with adding in round one!! The kid from Oregon is 5’10, we can’t throw him and Boykin out there and he is the best CB……Not a good draft class AT ALL for DB, and I don’t believe in drafting round 1 CBs to begin with….
            ….
            Want to improve your defense? There will be an absolute STUD at OLB available No matter where we pick!!!

            Anthony Barr IS Von Miller. A kid that will come in And wreak absolute Havoc from day one…

            Khalil Mack is a kid I view as the next Demarcus ware, a small school stud who will be a terrorist in the NFL
            ….
            Vic Beasly is another special OLB, but he needs to pack on 15lbs

            Van Noy is a stud who ii liked more than Ziggy ansah for BYU

            The Alabama OLB Hubbard, at 6’6 seems like a Kelly guy(could slip to the beginning of round two)
            ….
            Stay away from DBs in this draft and take advantage of a strong draft class to improve the most important position in a 3-4 defense with a kid who will notch double digit sacks for the next decade

          • theycallmerob

            Agree 100% with the primary need for rush OLB. Dunno how you keep up with all those prospects

          • GEAGLE

            I don’t really….I just keep up with top defenders…everyone focuses on QBs, but I’m practically useless if you want to talk QBs……the time people spend gushing over QBs, I put into defenders….usually I just make sure I stay current with the defensive prospects slated to go into the first two rounds…and I know a little something about the big prospects at other positions from the big schools…Football has become such an offensive game, and I’m the rare fan that couldn’t care less about offense..i can talk defensive prospects With you all year, but I won’t be intuned with the offense til Febuary…..when I watch College games alone, I like to take notes(just something I stared doing 3 years ago)
            …..
            You know what a Dion Jordan stalker I am,,,,I would probably pick Barr ahead of him…we need that kid

          • GEAGLE

            BINGO Rob!!!mNO point in bringing a young QB into this slop..damn sure can’t afford to trade up for one, when we have an entire roster that we need to turnover…….Have a solid 2014 draft, a solid 2014 free agency, a solid 2015 free agency…and maybe by the 2015 draft you will have a roster in place that allows you to afford to give up the farm trading up to get your guy…right now, you can add the best rookie prospect, and you seriously risk ruining him….
            …..
            Anthony Barr/Vic Beasly, Khalil Mack, Van Noy, H ubbard OLB
            …..
            Mike Evans, Sammy watkins(who is undoubtably a better prospect than texans Hopkins), Allen Robinson, Josh huff! Odell Beckham…..WR
            ….
            Luis Nix III, or Rashede hagemen(the next Calleus Cambell) DL
            …..
            Haha Clinton Dix or Craig Loston safety…
            ….
            Look we have a brand new coach, drastically different then the past coach, yet we have the same exact issue we have always had…our Oline just regresses every week….95% of Andy’s guys need to be turnover….we added 6 new guys to the defense….surprise surprise, midway through the season and it’s our strongest unit. Those boys don’t regress, they prove every single week….ANDYs guys have to go…we have too many roster spots that need to be turned over, to be trading up for a QB, who doesn’t have enough around him to be successful…If Andy drafted you from 2010 and back, YOU gotta go,,,,

          • Andy124

            I cannot have a guy named Haha on my Eagles. We’ll be the joke of the league. A regular laughing stock.

          • #7

            As long as he can play I don’t care if his name is Hehe

          • GEAGLE

            Lucky for you his name is Hasean lol..

            I know the kid is GOOD and the best of his class, but I struggle with the kid. Curious to get thoughts regarding him from guys that are familiar with him….like I said I know he is good, as in sure shot first round good, but I have a hard time figuring out if he is top 15 good, or bottom 15 good…and it doesn’t help that he is suspended now.. And when I look at Mocks, they all seem to struggle with him as well…half of there have him drafted in the 7-15 range as high as the rams pick,,,the other half mostly have him falling to the broncos in round 1….Does anyone view him as a #7-15 type of super talent?….

          • Andy124

            Does anyone view him as a #7-15 type of super talent?
            Apparently, yes

            half of there have him drafted in the 7-15 range as high as the rams pick

            Seriously though, I have no idea. I don’t keep up with that.

          • cliff henny

            joyner and jone out of fsu were a 2 man wrecking crew against clemson. those boys made some money that game.

          • cliff henny

            i do see both sides…eagles can sell non qb pick to guys like us…but to cataldi listenres (been out of philly, dont know his station ) picking something else will be tough sell.

          • 1972

            I like the way he plays in college. That scramble drill crap wont work in the NFL. If he runs like hes running now. he’ll be injury prone like vick and foles

          • cliff henny

            he has calmed down his running from last yr to this yr, so no reason to think he cant reduce it more when transitioning to nfl. would you rather he stood in pocket and get crushed. the guy is geat athlete, and he can make plays from pocket. still my 4th choice in qb right now.

          • 1972

            better get him a big receiver. He throws a lot of jump balls to evans. Jackson cant be his #1 he has a rus Wilson quality to him. I think that’s his ceiling. But he could be flutie and I don’t want a novelty act here

          • cliff henny

            he throws them to evans…why wouldnt you? take away all evans catches and tds, manziel is still a really good qb. stafford isnt knocked for getting the ball to johnson.

          • Andy124

            I’ve seen some knock him for that.

          • cliff henny

            3 yrs 48m extension would disagree with that.

          • Andy124

            Neither myself nor the Lions are among the “some”.

          • cliff henny

            i’ve hear it too. manziel makes alot more plays than scrambling like a crazy man and throwing jump balls. no doubt he does some, and have to stop it in nfl, but there’s also issues / 3 guys ranked ahead of him, and jm doing his in SEC, that holds weight to me. eagles get to 4-9, i’ll stop watching him, that’ll bring bridgewater or mariota in mix.

          • Andy124

            Anybody talking about Blake Bortles? He’s making some noise against some stiff competition without elite talent around him. Good size. Arm looked good to me. Only saw him that one game though.

          • cliff henny

            saw the south carolina game, lot to like. wish that l-ville game was coming up. i pretty much ignored teddy, he might be in-play.

            http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/QB

            has good lising of talent, usually pull this up when watching a cf game. guy i just could never figure out is logan thomas from va tech. guy i really want to like, has every tool you could ask for, just cant put it together

          • Andy124

            Am I going blind (real life answer is yes) or is Blake not on that list at all?

          • cliff henny

            nope, he’s 10th in ’15.

          • Andy124

            Ooooohhhhh. I had it in my head that he was a senior. Thanks!

          • cliff henny

            some point i’m going to have to check out bryce petty from baylor. idk what’s going on in waco, but that kid is putting up crazy-ass numbers

          • Andy124
          • GEAGLE

            Yup

    • defroe81

      a running qb will fix everything… get tebow done.

  • 1972

    Thanks Sheil, djax single covered cant get open. wes welker gets open on that play. Good bye sir, your 27 and still acting like a 18 yo. I want a bigger tougher receiver as my number 1

    • cliff henny

      he’s fustrating guy, but still i’ve hate to see a true nfl playmaker leave this team.

      • 1972

        He doesn’t make those plays on big games. The last big play he made in a big game imo is the Arizona championship game.
        Im aware of the run back against New York, but that was more of a vick come back to me

        • cliff henny

          better teams are able to roll coverage his way, while still not giving up ton on backside. dont think he’s true #1, always had more of an issue with Maclin making – or lack of – plays on backside. he’s 6m dead if he walks, that a good chunk. get him back in line aroun 7-8m, and get players that take advantage of him drawing coverage.

          • 1972

            No rolling coverage needed on that goaline play. one on one cant get open.
            He walks if he doesn’t get 10 mil next year. he’s going to point to his numbers… and howies better make the right decision. Hes part of a losing culture, we don’t need that here

        • Token

          Exactly.

          People live in the past with this kid. I was hoping maybe he was growing up. Nope, just not gonna happen.

          And his skill set is soooo limited.

          The myth still exists that hes doubled all the time. Just not true. Even with no other WR threat on the field teams play man on man vs Jackson. He cant beat it with any consistency. Thats why he disappears in tough games.

          Its just one of those things they have to move on from if the team wants to grow. A quitter cant be part of the solution.

          • EaglePete

            Ive always felt that way with him minus maybe a bit of time after his coming out party. We were just excited to have a WR that could flash after so many duds with McNabb. Limited is right, get him out of here. Big beats small right CK, now just dump Howie and get on with it.

  • theycallmerob

    If we go winless at home this year, you’d better change your daughter’s name. Or swing a dead chicken over her crib.

    • Will

      We just lost to the 1-6 Gnats, Oakland beat the Charger’s by 10. Other than the Vikes where do you see a win? Maybe skins again?

      • Andy124

        Well, we don’t play Oakland or Minnesota at home, so that’s kind of off topic.

        As far as potential home wins this year, Washington and, if things somehow get straightened out, Arizona after the bye are by far our best chances to pick up a win at the Linc this season.

      • theycallmerob

        you do realize those are both away games?

  • Scott J

    I don’t understand why Barkley didn’t run more during the game. I know he’s been a drop back passer, but didn’t Kelly teach him the read option? There were times where he could have ran with no defender in site. He’s not slow like Foles, so he can run for a first down once in a while.

    • Andy124

      Remember that a lot of those plays that look like read-options are just straight handoffs with no read in the play design.

    • Will

      The right CB was playing spy on the QB….the backside run by a QB or a cutback by McCoy……….smart well deafened..

  • #7

    This is a disaster. Period.

    I drank the kool-aid. I drank all that shit up. This is as disappointed as I’ve ever been as an Eagles fan. I know we had the Kotite Era and the Ray Rhodes Era, but I’m more disappointed with this.

    All the hype, the speed, the formations, our players with the speed to fit his “offense” and we end up running sweeps constantly with the leading rusher in the NFL. We fail to put any WR in motion. A f’n 3 wide, single back formation every play.

    Bubble screens. Gone
    WR Stacks outside (screens). Gone

    That seems to be the entire offense right there. RO fake does not work without Vick. Our QBs look like idiots carrying out the fakes while 9 guys in the box swarm #25. He will be injured soon, unfortunately. We have a stud backup RB, with our supposed RUN FIRST FIRST OFFENSE, and he can’t use him effectively. He’s not a zone read guy Chip. PUT HIM IN THE “I” FORMATION CHIP!!!!! Make an adjustment Chip. You should know something about the I formation….or maybe not. Put “Swiss Army Knife” at FB….thats what the 12 mil is for, right Chip? Jack of all trades supposedly.

    How about a scathing article on Chip guys? When is it time for Chip to feel some heat? He threw his QBs under the bus IMO. Vick should be commended to giving it a shot…and maybe he shouldn’t have, but I commend that and there are a few on here that see this and did that as well.

    This is a disaster and it’s not just on the players.

    I don’t care about the QBs anymore.

    • theycallmerob

      Halfway into the 1st year, which is a rebuild. Lombardi could not have won with this roster. I don’t get how so many “fans” have so little patience. Just get over it.

      • #7

        Sweep left

        Sweep right

        Sweep left.

        Punt.

        He’s not using his weapons effectively. It’s disappointing because we’re 1 game out of first place Rob. Not seeing adjustments from Chip.

        • theycallmerob

          He has No QB. That game plan was designed for Vick. Barkley had no reps. We could go on, but many others have already tried to get this through to y’all.

          I could give a $#%!@#$ about 1st place. Does it really matter? Enough with the “anything can happen in the playoffs”, more than anything else this team needs talent.
          And just like QBs, we can go on for days about coaches who don’t come into the NFL and light it up right away. The media created the whole “revolutionize the game” image.
          Chip’s scheme is very similar- put players in great positions to win 1on1 matchups or play to the odds. It’s very clear we’re not winning those individual battles. Simple as that.

          • Token

            The offense wasnt scoring with Vick either. Because when you get in the redzone that spread RO crap is even less effective.

          • theycallmerob

            Nothing will be effective without pass catchers who can get separation.

          • Andy124

            Nothing will be effective without pass catchers who can get separation.
            Or QBs that can find them and hit them on time and in stride.

            Still hoping Nick’s disaster was either “just one of those days” or an undiagnosed concussion on the first series.

            Imagine how beneficial it would be if he was the answer (or Barkley or Kinne, don’t care which).

          • EaglePete

            so many are quick to throw Foles under the bus. I still want to see more. Just didnt make sense to be so good one week then miss wide open guys the next. I dont care what record a team has, guys are open you can still make the pass. I want to see Foles now to find out if there is anything. Even a decent backup is fine with me, or a place holder til new QB comes in a takes spot. Not feeling Barkley much but Id give him more time for sure. We all have our own eye test.

          • 1972

            Pete, youre going to see me more!!!! why argue about it. Vicks hurt, maybe for the year, now if deer in the headlights can get the cobb webs out, we’ll see how he performs the rest of the year. so I don’t have to hear about nick vs vick crap anymore

          • 1972

            I want to see more, that’s the phrase of the year for this guy. No one ever says how much more. this year next year three years??I give him 8 games. If he doesn’t produce, that’s enough for me

          • Token

            But that goes back to the my athlete is better than your athlete thing. Thats all this scheme is. Thats not gonna be consistent in the NFL because your not gonna have elite talent at every position. Defenses are fast in this league too.

            Scheme has to play a role in putting players in good position. So far this scheme does not do that at all.

          • Andy124

            What if he just needs, “My athelete is as good as your athelete”? I mean, Cooper is a really good #4 in my opinion. Good for a spot start, no problem. But he’s not an average #2 guy in this league. He was never intended to be.

            I think Rob’s stance is that if you replace Cooper with an average #2 guy, that one change could change everything about this offense.

            I’m not convinced that would be a cure-all, but the theory holds water for sure.

          • Token

            But that doesnt change the offense. Do you think running sweeps will work consistently? Even Shady McCoy cant make that successful. Do you think bubble screens every other play are a good long term strategy?

            The NFL defenses are too fast for this crap. They watch a lot of film too.

            If not having a QB that can run 100 yards a game collapses the Chip offense, hes not the guy.

            Chip would struggle in college against the better teams with better athletes.

            All the reasons I had for not liking this coach choice from the start have practically all come to fruition. Now its time to see if he can adjust to all this.

          • Andy124

            But that doesnt change the offense.
            We don’t know that.

            If not having a QB that can run 100 yards a game collapses the Chip offense, hes not the guy.
            You’ll certainly receive no argument from me there.

            I’ll tell you the same thing I just told whiteVick, if 8 games was all the information we’d ever have to go on, we’d be finding a lot of common ground. But more data is incoming whether you like it or not, so may as well wait for it before reaching your conclusions.

          • #7

            “white Vick” lol.

            Hilarious

          • JofreyRice

            I just have a very tough time with an offensive guru coach putting up goose eggs and ~200 yards of offense two weeks in a row. Andy did it once back in 2005, with that trainwreck of a team, and Mike McMahon at QB. Bruce Arians has not allowed it this year, with a crappy Carson Palmer and no running game to speak of. Chudzinski has made it work with 3 QBs and has not allowed their offense to be completely shut out. It’s not a good sign.

          • Andy124

            Sure, plenty of reasons for concern. I’m sure as heck not brimming with confidence in Chip. I’ve just seen so many complete 180s, this year even, that I don’t think that more of them would be particularly surprising.

          • JofreyRice

            Fully agree with you there. One of the great things about the game is it’s ability to surprise one so profoundly.

          • theycallmerob

            Not every position, and not even close- just a handful of the “matchup-centric” positions. We already have a matchup nightmare at RB. Kelly must assume Ertz can be that guy at TE (just as we all assumed it would be Casey). But not one big physical receiver to win contested balls, and no true slot weapon.
            Would this look drastically different with Maclin? Or if DJ2 had been able to break out in the slot? (Na Brown award-winner, it seems).
            Again, we’re seeing open looks. Even a mediocre QB could take advantage. In which case, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But even with DJax, are we not a bottom-of-the-pack WR unit?

          • Token

            How much more can they invest in the offense? Theres a TON invested in that unit already. And they cant score a TD against the Cowboys or Giants defenses.

            Point being, if you need a 100 million dollar offense just to be successful with Chip, then hes not the right guy.

            If you need everything to be in perfect order to show signs of life, hes not the right guy.

          • theycallmerob

            ….
            If you’re expecting a win out of your 3rd string, rookie QB who got no reps, you’re not of the right mind

          • Token

            Is a TD too much to ask? A FG?

          • #7

            Lol

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            You do realize we were ranked as high as 5th in scoring prior to the Dallas game right?

          • #7

            If we’re there, we might as well compete for it Rob. 1 game out and this guy keeps making boneheaded choices. It’s frustrating and I can’t see how you’re so relaxed about the choices he’s been making. As you know, the NFL is about adjustments. Coaches live in the building pretty much watching film and we’ve been caught up with already by simple man coverage.

            What?

            I’ve never said he was a genius, but expected adjustments. Not the same plays and formations over and over.

            He can get his QB in the draft next year, but who says that is guarantee if he fails to change? I understand your fierce defense of Chip Kelly but cmon man. We’ve all been watching football for a long time. We should be able to score a TD from the 2yd line with the 2nd best RB in the NFL.

          • theycallmerob

            As you know, the NFL is about adjustments.
            It is moreso about execution. Which we are terrible at. Particularly with a QB who should not be on the field (along with plenty of less-than-worthy WRs).
            And you’re confusing “fierce defense” with “patience”.

          • theycallmerob

            ….and also, it’s not Chip’s fault that Barkley did not throw that ball away. Again, execution. Though I understand why you are always hesitant to blame a QB in those situations

          • JofreyRice

            I understand what you’re saying Rob, but he had to know that Vick was kind of iffy, right? I mean, if he put all his eggs in Vick’s basket, that he’d come in and be himself, I’d say that was quite foolish, as well.

            I am trying to remain patient with Kelly. I was one of the main people talking about how untalented this team was, back when saying Andy was going to a better roster in KC (1 win team) was provocative. But the truth of the matter is, he had a chance to bring in guys to help build the offense, and they really have not been productive. They spent major capital to get guys in here who could help. We’re not just talking about a bad pass game, they were awful in anything they tried to do on offense the past two weeks.

      • Token

        Its not all about wins and losses. Its about seeing some progress. Seeing good ideas and schemes. Seeing good coaching decisions. Its been a failure in those categories.

        What signs do you see that tells you Chip is going to be a high end NFL coach?

        • theycallmerob

          His scheme has worked for the most part. I don’t understand the rush to harp on his “in-game adjustments”; it is not so simple to “adjust” to a rookie qb coming into a gameplan that is not his (in a losing situation, no less) and succeed.

          We saw how the WRs were open in the DAL game. And I saw that yesterday too. Of course he’s made some bad calls, but you act as if he should be held to higher standards than any of his peers. You do know that Belichick was even fired once?
          It’s amazing how you can wave your magic wand and cast irrefutable judgements halfway into a rebuild year.

    • Andy124

      That’s the problem with reaching conclusions (drinking the kool-aid) without all the evidence.

      I would caution that there is still more evidence to come, at least 24 games worth. May want to avoid making the same mistake and just see what happens before re-making up your mind on Kelly. No need to be all-in or all-out. It’s ok to sit back and watch and form your opinion AFTER all the evidence is in.

      • #7

        You still have kool-aid on you mouth Andy. Be sure to wipe it up now

        • theycallmerob

          You seem to take a very impatient and simplistic view to the whole “running a football team” thing.

          • #7

            No Rob. You’re wrong right there. I remember you guys calling me the “ultimate optimist” on here several times, so I do have patience.

            I don’t claim to be an expert by any means, but what is he showing you right now, Rob, that he can be a high end coach?

            You keep saying “he has no QB”…but I specifically remember him saying that he didn’t need a franchise/superstar QB to run his offense. I guess he’s getting smashed in the face with that reality now…and it truly looks like he NEEDS a running QB or his offense fails. I hope it’s not the truth but we can only go off of what we see right now. Seems that we all raised an eyebrow at that statement…..but you defend him fiercely.

            Never said Fire Chip. I want him to adapt to the NFL…hell a little bit!! He acts like he’s at Oregon still man.

          • theycallmerob

            see my response below to Token. And he doesn’t need a running QB, he just needs any kind of QB. Your average statue “thrower” QB could have easily won that Dallas game.

        • Andy124

          Actually, I haven’t even sipped the kool-aid. I’ve actually mentioned several times that I don’t buy the “In Chip We Trust” mentality and that I wanted Mike McCoy as our coach.

          That doesn’t mean I think Chip sucks and needs to go. Still evaluating. If we would never have more than 8 games to go on, my conclusions wouldn’t be much different than yours. I’m just trying to be friendly and remind you that there’s more to come. Teams can look drastically different from one week to the next.

          • #7

            I’m frustrated man. No malice intended at all

    • Richard Colton

      You’re done with Chip after 1/2 a season? When he inherited slop from Andy Reid? I’m very disappointed in you. Although, I will say your rant looks Philadelphian enough. Almost fooled me.

      There were at least two bubble screens to Desean that looked promising – decent reads by Barkley and were blocked well. Djax just didn’t break them for long gains.

      • 1972

        d jax doesn’t break anything Richard lol

      • Token

        He had a chance to purge the roster. He chose not to. Thats another negative.

        You cant keep slop thinking you can coach them up, then use it as a excuse for sucking.

        You have to look past the players and overall outcomes. What do you see in his scheme that you like?

        Id like to have something to latch onto and say, ok hes gonna turn this franchise around. But I see no signs of those traits.

        • Richard Colton

          We are 8 games in. I’m not sure he had any option at the top of the roster. This offseason will be telling.

        • theycallmerob

          Purge how? Where are these talented, available football players that you seem to think are just doing pushups in their driveways, waiting for Howie to sign them?

          • Will

            That’s where most of the current team belongs…doing push ups in there driveways contemplating a new career choice…

      • #7

        Didn’t say I was done. If you look, the key word is “adjustments”

        In glad that you see positive signs for the future in this. Good for you bro.

        Hopefully Chip turns it around. Chip doesn’t need a franchise QB, remember? His system is plug and play in his mind, but not in the NFL. NFL coaches FORCE you to adjust most of the time and he has not.

        Shiel has pointed it out in the all-22s. It wasn’t in a negative light at the time, but we are essentially running the same plays over and over…. well he changes them using the same formation. I don’t call for him to be fired sir, just have to adjust man. NFL coaches are smart too. Merrill Hoge is appearing to be correct and I never want him to be correct

        • Richard Colton

          Merrill Hodge is the king of oversimplification. That makes you, what? the court jester?

          New coach inherits a 4-12 roster and doesn’t go 10-6 right away, so we pillory him. Doesn’t make much sense.

          • #7

            We’re not even talking about the roster itself man. We know what it is and what he’s inherited. The in game decision making has been abysmal at best.

            A naked bootleg on the 2yd line to the left with a right handed rookie…ROOKIE. You can’t expect him to throw the ball away like he should and if he does, great. Like any rookie, I think MB was flustered from the speed and pressure of the moment, like most rookies are…and was PRESSING to try to make a play and impress the HC. I could be wrong sir, but that’s my assumption.

            Our FG kicker is ruined. It’s a hassle to kick a freakin FG for crying out loud. Just asking that he adjusts, not be fired.

            Coaching in game decisions are supposed to GET BETTER not WORSE as the season progresses. 8 games is, they are getting worse. We have an all-pro RB running sweeps out of the shotgun…seems to be the ONLY running play that we run.

            Three TEs and we use none of them. Backup stud RB and we use him wrong. What the hell is Shurmur telling this guy and if so is he listening? Is it Chip’s EGO, which appears to be MASSIVE?

            “I don’t need a superstar QB to run my offense”

            Is that not ego, sir?

          • Richard Colton

            If he’s making the same mistakes next year, we can talk. I’m willing to grade on a curve. What’s the alternative, fire him?

          • #7

            Again, never said fire him. Have no choice but hope he gets better. My personal belief is starting to lean towards the fact that he won’t be here very long.

          • Richard Colton

            I think you’re projecting. I mean, for the love of g-d, he isn’t Kotite.

          • #7

            ……………………..

      • JofreyRice

        They loaded up on offense in the draft and free agency–to the point where we were screaming for them to fix the defense, which is still broken–Billy Davis is still a dolt, by the way–and this is the result? I love Desean, but he’s really purely a vertical threat. He doesn’t make people miss very often underneath, and he certainly isn’t breaking any tackles. Bubble screens to him are throw him the ball, and watch him try to get out of bounds before taking a hit.

        I understand that rational people want to look at this from a lot of angles, and take everything into account, and be fair in their criticism, but at some point, after all the losing seasons, it’s just meaningless chatter on blogs in Phila. When do we stop making reasonable excuses and start seeing something being built to bring this town a Lombardi?

        The decline of the running game is really the most worrisome piece. If he can’t put together an offense that can successfully run on defenses, I don’t know, that’s pretty bad…Lurie hired this guy for that. It certainly seems like he’s not going to “revolutionize” the league the way we might have hoped, but I’m not sure he’s going to even be able to tread water if he can’t adjust his running game to NFL success.

        • Richard Colton

          “meaningless chatter on blogs in Phila” – thought you could just slip that one in un-noticed did you?

    • EaglePete

      Barkley did a bubble screen on one of his first throws but ya. RO not nearly as effective without a real threat for the QB to run. How bout that run by Pryor, thats how its done.

      • #7

        Yep. That guy is going to shred us

    • Adam

      Classic overreaction. You can’t win without good QB play. No coach could have success with a 3rd string 4th round rookie straight off the bench.

      • Andy124

        Except for Patches O’Houlihan.

  • Scott J

    I actually care more that the defense is getting better rather than the offense is getting worse. As soon as we get upgrade our receivers and settle on a QB (draft), the offense will come around. I thought there was no hope for our defense this year, but they are really responding to Davis. The tackling has been great.

    • Will

      They need a true NT,CB,OLB and a pair of safeties but yes he is working wonders.

    • GEAGLE

      I coulda told you that would happen….funny how bad this city analyzed defensive players and how badly this city treated Billy davis….and you can down vote this all you want,,,but we all know what happened,

  • knighn

    Been a while since I’ve had a chance to post, so…
    – As I said before the start of the season: the Eagles are not a legitimate playoff contender this year. Please remember this just in case something crazy happens and the Eagles end up in the playoffs.
    – As I also said before the start of the season: Vick is done.
    – Regardless of whether or not he is done, Vick is NOT a coach-killer, at least not with the Eagles. Andy Reid made plenty of bad decisions, including Kevin Kolb as QB and Juan Castillo as DC. I still think Reid would have gotten himself fired by 2013, if not sooner. Mike Vick may have actually extended Reid’s career in Philadelphia. Without him on the roster, the Eagles would have had nothing to watch but Kolb… and I’m pretty sure that would have gotten old really, really quick. As for Chip Kelly: his coaching career isn’t over here…. unless Chip Kelly already wants to quit. And if Kelly wants to quit, that’s on him, not Vick.
    – I don’t hate the Call for the pass play on 1st and 2 at the goal line. Barkley had just led the Eagles down the field, completing 6 out of 7 pass attempts. The Eagles weren’t getting anything done in the run game. I think it was important for Chip Kelly, at that moment, to show some faith in his Rookie QB. I did hate that Barkley took so long to throw the ball away.
    – Question for everyone. Right now, looking at the Eagles at 3-5 and the Chiefs at 8-0, who has a better chance of winning a Super Bowl by 2018? Andy Reid and the Chiefs or Chip Kelly and the Eagles? Call me a homer: even with the Eagles at 3-5, I like Chip’s chances more than Reid’s. We know that Reid is probably going to keep falling short in the playoffs. At least Chip Kelly doesn’t have that large history of coming up short in the biggest games. Hopefully Chip can eventually right this ship and sail it off to the promised land.
    – Have a great day, everyone!

    • EaglePete

      I dont really care about andy vs CK but yes, youd think that winning it all is not in Reids cards but it took Cowher forever also. Never say never esp with a good D but I havent given up on Kelly. Id like to see more adjustments but sometimes you just cant get much done without the horse. I think Vick hurt the Eagles in the long run by Reid signing him in the first place. I was very upset the second they signed him out of prison for the simple reason that I didnt think he could ever win it all. I feared he would one day become the starter and leave the team hanging in the middle somewhere instead of rebuilding anew post McNabb. I think a lot of fans felt that way minus the dog fighting stuff. I think they saw his weaknesses being game planned against while with Atl. Another reason fans get excited about Kolb or Foles, the backup QB fetish. Fans just want that special QB to be the future, its almost better to fail until you find them, then to wallow in mediocrity. I still think the skins made the right call selling the farm for RG3, at least they have a piece to build around whether it pans out or not at this point. Similar arc to Newton at this point, still early also.

      • knighn

        It took Cowher forever… on one team. He got to rebuild and tweak and keep building until he ultimately built a Super Bowl Competitor that he won with once, Tomlin won with once… and then Tomlin got to make another Super Bowl appearance with that team. You see: Cowher built his team strong, and for the most part, kept his team strong, even as he was on the way out the door.

        I don’t think Reid will ultimately win a Super Bowl. I think he had some favorable circumstances here, with a number of leaders already in place. He made a good decision at QB and then continued to cruise with some occasionally good draft picks out of many, many bad picks. I think he’ll ultimately see diminishing returns on that team, just as he did here.

        I didn’t mind Vick on the team in 2009, when the Eagles hired him. I thought he might still be able to give a team something, and I thought Reid might help him develop as a QB. Vick helped make the 2010 season a very memorable one… although you are probably right: without Vick, the Eagles may have had much worse seasons in 2010 and 2011, would have probably fired Reid before the 2012 season, and might have had a shot at Luck or RGIII in the 2012 draft.

        For the record: I was never very excited about Kolb… and I would have rather seen Reid sent out of town than McNabb. It was a very happy day for me when the Eagles got a a 2nd and DRC for Kolb… because they actually got something for Kolb! While I would have preferred Foles over Vick, that was never because I thought Foles was actually a better QB than Vick. I just thought we’d see Vick miss a lot of games and waste another season rather than point the Eagles in the direction they’ll need to go, which is: another franchise QB.

        RGIII is still a young QB, recovering from injury, with a relatively bad team around him. Hard to believe after last season, but the kid has room for improvement. As long as he doesn’t keep getting hurt, RGIII should have a long career ahead of him. I really wish he didn’t play for the ‘Skins. As bad as they are right now, I think he’s going to continue to be a challenge for the Eagles in the future. Right now: I’m looking forward to the Eagles getting their next Franchise QB. I sure hope and pray he gives us a little bit more than the last few. Tired of being the only team in the NFC East without a Lombardi Trophy!

  • GEAGLE

    To further explain the redzone play that we fumbled away described above…it was a pretty good play design, Cooper was sent in motion(I thought we were going to direct snap it to him) to take the defender to the opposite side, leaving Desean open one on one with space to work against amakamura so it was a good design consistent with what Chip does which is get match ups for his stars in space…the failure was the route Desean was asked to run..nothing complicated, just a simple pivot route that we see Welker constant abuse defenses with…problem is that Desean has never had much success running that route (according to Diddy)…..
    ….
    Of course the play was inexcusable to being with. 1st and goal from the two, rookie QB, 1quarter of experience, limited practice reps because Vick is a selfish dope…the ball should have been handed off 4 times in a row. Chip calls a timeout(instead of running down the clock because he has no concept of time management)..he says he called the TO, to settle mat down??well if you acknowledge that he needs “settling down” how about your run the god darn ball, instead of asking him to run a route with two reads on it?

    besides Chips abysmal coaching, Mike Vick is a joke. Not only did he cripple this team this week with his selfish crap taking the majority of the snaps from a rookie with zero experience, but when he left the game, our “leader” displayed less leadership then Dez Bryant..he sat alone with a towel over his head sulking for the entire game….you would think he would try to help the rookie QB who is out there trying to clean up his mess, but he didn’t say a word to Barkley…Desean and LeSean clearly got dejected and were sulking thru half the game, yet where was their veteran leader who they all idolize to try and pick them up? Even if you can’t play, your leader finds a way to make a contribution…..we have a fragile selfish dope who crippled us, and then sulked alone in the corner….pathetic…..and If I knew all friggin week that Vick wasn’t going to get thru the first quarter then he is a selfish dope and Chip is a fool when it materializes….by now we all know Vick is nothing without his confidence…everytime you heard him spoke during the week, his tone pointed to this happening….surprise sur friggin prise!!!

    How about my bend but don’t break defense….is anyone still going to try to tell me that BRAMA bull Barwin and Billy Davis are bums?? Lol

    • Will

      Said all week his hammy wasn’t ready in 3 weeks, no way hose. Said all week yes sir ree Bob. Said Barkley in would mean game over.

    • EaglePete

      no no no, cmon with the rookie BS. Kids been playing ball all his life. Ample time to throw that ball out of the end zone yet somehow he thinks hes fast in the NFL, like its college. Cmon, throw it away. I refuse to blame that on the coach, absolutely refuse. You have to know you can live to have another down as a QB. Hes prob watched the NFL his entire life as well, his internal clock failed him big time, thats on him for complete lack of awareness.

      • GEAGLE

        Lol…sorry your idealistic BS doesn’t resound with me…in REALITY, watching the NFL and playing QB at inferior levels of football your entire life is NOT ENOUGH!!!!bEXPERIENCE matters!!!!!…

        Maybe if we were down and it was the end of the game, and we needed to score quickly, I would understand,,,,.the ONLY THING THAT mat termed in THAT situation was that we came away with points, while leaving as little time possible left on the clock…you have the best RB in the NFL first and goal on the two yard line in a situation where you want to run the clock…and you think it’s acceptable to put the ball in the hands of a kid with 1 quarter of experience and ask him to look at two options before throwingt he ball away? Just look at how the play unfolded, Ertz was the second option and he wasn’t even a real option….if you want to run THAT play, when you call your TO, you tell the rookie, just look at Desean, if he is covered, immediately throw it out of the ENDZONE…instead Chip tells him to look at Desean, if he is covered, then look at Ertz, and if neither are open, then throw it away….and you call a route for Desean that he is NEVER been good at?
        ….

        Are you actually going to tell me that shady behind our Oline gaining two yards on 4 plays shouldn’t be automatic?….sure Barkley absolutely NEEDS to be better hyphen boneheaded ish like that…but our coach did him NO favors in that at situation…it WREAKED of Andy trying to be too cute in The redzone…
        ….
        You have a QB with 1 quarter of NFL experience, who saw limited snaps during the week, and a top 3 NFL RB….and that’s what you dail up? …. We didn’t need to go out and get a new coach if we wanted to watch ish like that

        • EaglePete

          you can LOL all you want, Ill agree to disagree. It is enough, its not rocket science to throw the ball away in that situation when the initial reads arent there. I can agree that CK didnt make the wisest decision but my guess is that he trusts his players to execute no matter what. No need to dumb things down for anyone and remember, Barkley studies hard, heady player blah blah. This is just mmqb second guessing. He throws a dart TD, nobody says a thing. Some coach yest called a run at 3rd and goal from the 6 or 7. Got in for TD, that doesnt work he gets eviscerated today. When it works its great, when it doesnt everyones an expert.

          • GEAGLE

            So basically what you are trying to say is that experience is over rated? :)…

            There were so many BAD decisions made on that one play, that we are splitting hairs trying to place the blame…let’s just compromise and agree that Coach AND QB need to make better decisions then that if we are ever going to turns this around

          • EaglePete

            I can agree with that, in hindsight it wasnt smart at all on CK part. I was just screaming at the TV for him to throw it away and it felt like forever before the guy caught him and he fumbled. Oh well, dont think we were winning that game anyway. I just think the good coaches always keep the other team guessing wrong. Obvious run, you pass etc.

          • GEAGLE

            Man…I’m certainly not going to sit here and defend Barkley lol…I was screaming the same exact thing as you when it happened….

            I just think that now more so then ever, while we struggle at QB, HEAVY dose of shady in there redzone. if I have to watch us fail, I prefer it being on the back of our best player…I also have been traumatized by Eagles Murphy’s law…we are struggling right now, we have to keep it simple and get physical our way out of this…which reminds me:

            Stoutland and his oline need to get their ish together. we got HANDLED at the LOS yesterday. our line is literally regressing…I’m watching Billy Davis do a heckuva job with less talent than our offense! he is fixing our past problems. You don’t see ANY breakdowns in coverage where guys are it’s running free and DBS are left pointing at each other…you see guys that are learning how to hold their Disguise for an extra second or two, when early on they were tipping their hand pre snap which is what got us dissected by rivers and Peyton…Guys are holding their pre snap disguise longer and it’s making all the difference in the world….Davis has us tackling Better then we have in years….we aren’t a shutdown defense, but we are playing bend but don’t break pretty darn well, holding teams to field goals and finally get off the field…pressure and hitting QBs masks a lot of problems, and it’s DAMN IMPRESSIVE the improvements this defense is making without getting much pressure on QBs,,,if you added a double digit sack producer at OLB to this defense, it would make all the difference in the world…add a Batman safety for Wolf to play with….and give these guys a year to grow together, and grow individually, and personel wise, we are much closer to a good defense than most people realized,,,
            ..
            We need to add two really good players…easier said than done,,,but much better than being 8 defenders away which is what the consensus was…Billy “Jethro” Davis for coach of the month!!!!!

        • knighn

          Matt Barkley was “supposed to be a 1st round Pick”. Or so everyone said. (I’ve always had a problem with this – that’s another story). Chip Kelly liked the kid enough to draft him, and liked him when he faced him at USC. Then CK watched Barkley march his team down the field, completing 6 of 7 passes. Meanwhile the star RB couldn’t get any yards on the ground.

          It was 1st and 2. Chip Kelly was trying to instill confidence in his young QB. If Barkley gets the TD there, it’s a different game for him. If the TD wasn’t there, he was supposed to throw the ball away. He throws the ball away, that’s still two (or three) more chances for the Eagles to punch it in.

          I have ZERO problem with this play call. I only have a problem with Barkley’s decision to hold onto the ball for way too long.

    • #7

      “by now we all know Vick is nothing without his confidence”

      What player is?

      • GEAGLE

        Please give me a break just for today…I’m not going to rub it in your face, but ii need a break from the Vick idiots just for a day

        • cliff henny

          NEVER! 8 more games

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          Funny. The “Vick idiots” feel very much the same way about you (and some others).

          • GEAGLE

            Keep talking about how talentless our defense is, and worshipping average at best QBs….mindless sheep…and “US OTHERS” are just Eagles fans with no blind delusional allegiance to one player…take some Thorazine and maybe you can be one of us and live in reality

      • #7

        I never even used his name today until I read your post. This is purely about coaching the last 8 games. You’re the one bashing the player and you seem to take a lot of pride in it according to your post.

        Asked you an honest question and you get mad lol

        • GEAGLE

          I have no patience today for blind loyalist….if you don’t get it after a decade, Then I can’t expect you to get it after yesterday…and if you actually wanted to engage in a real discussion about what transpired this week then you would have addressed the countless other points I made about Vicks performance this past week…but you didn’t even bother trying to address the selfishness and his worthlessness as our leader..just conveniently skipped over that and just went right into blind loyalist defense mode…and after being crippled by that turd this past week, I don’t think I’m out of line for asking for a one day break to mourn what I just witnessed yesterday..

          I have my own oppinions, often very strong and contrary to the consensus…yet I have NO problem giving credit when it’s due or admitting to being wrong. I NEVER wanted Vick back this year, I never believed he should start. Yet I rooted him for 4 hours every week, when he played well I praised him, when our offense played bad, we lost games and Vick played well, ii still defended him and gave him credit when it was do at a time that I could have easily crushed him. If your need to be right, keeps you from keeping it real, then we can’t chat…but if you want to discuss something honestly without making it into a classless personal pissing match then I’m always happy to engage…..but today of all days, after something I expected to go wrong all week! materialized in front of my own eyes. And our BRILLIANT coach couldn’t see it….I’m aggrivated, and can’t tolerate any sort of Vick defense just for today, because there is NOTHING TO DEFEND!!!!
          ….
          There are few athletes that I respect as a man more then how that guy has transformed his life. I praise him for the class act that he has become every single time it comes up. I want that man to succeed, and I damn sure want nth at man to succeed if he takes center as the QB of he the EAGLES…but yesterday was disgusting on sooooo many levels, and it friggin STINGS to have saw it coming all week, yet Chip, our glimmer of hope needed to fall flat on his is face to see it…
          ….
          Speaking of BS!! Rookie or No rookie, if I’m going to keep it real! then Barkley deserved to be slapped across his face by Jason peters as soon as he finished his press conference! Barkley better learn to STFU, take a loss like a man, and not throw our damn coach under the bus the first moment he had a chance, WTF is he doing revealing or criticizing his practice snap count to reporters? You didn’t get enough snaps, I sympathize for you! but keep that ISh IN house!!!! Especially when you are talking to our media…I was disgusted as soon as he said it!!!

      • GEAGLE

        NONE!!! Which is the darn point!! I’m not crucifying Vick for not being great when he was playing with NO confidence…I’m crucifying him for playing and taking all the snaps from the inexperienced kid who we all knew was going to get thrust into this game…and the worthless lack of leadership he displayed during the game…two simple concepts that you would be able to comprehend when reading my post if you weren’t busy blindly defending Mike as if you were his protective mother and he was the fruit of your loins..

        • #7

          He said he felt good. HC makes the final decision. Go ask Chip

        • defroe81

          dont think it was all vick i think coach was hurrying him back since you know well the rookie sucks pure balls. and anything kelly might say today is a lie he rushed vick back because he has no confidence in barkley just like he will put foles in there over barkley if he passes the concusion testing. i say pick up tebow and let him run all over the place with mccoy…

  • jabostick

    It’s alright, Sheil. I bought a Nate Allen jersey when it looked early on that he might be an up and comer (and got hurt shortly after). I bought a Peters jersey just in time for his knee to get tore up. I’d have to go back to the timeline, but I’m pretty sure my Trent Cole jersey traces pretty strongly back to his decline too.

    I need to do a better job (shopping) and put our players in a better position to win.

    • Chris

      Don’t worry, I bought an Asomougha jersey. Needless to say, it doesn’t see the light of day anymore

      • #7

        Ouch

      • cliff henny

        yeah, might of thrown that one away. or mailed it to a Giants fan

  • wydok

    The only way to fix the Eagles home loss problem is to trade Baby Kapadia to the Giants. Sorry, Sheil.

    • Uncle Carm

      Or start Baby Kapadia at quarterback.

  • EaglePete

    Dez Bryant….hahahahahaha. How completely awesome was that Lions comeback….wow that made my day. If the Cowboys cant lock up this hapless division they are such a sorry excuse for a team. This is it for them, no more blaming Romo, blaming the coaches, its beyond blame at this point if they still cant get it done. They need to break that up and rebuild in a bunch of places if they dont pull through. Even if they do, what record will it be. They should easily be grabbing this division by the throat yet they cant…..again. We have that at least. Gmen 7-9 division winners beat GB in GB haha, I kid.

    • cliff henny

      see their cap next 2 yrs? they arent breaking up anything. off top of my head, think they have 10 players accounting for 75m in dead money. they are already 10m over, and need 10m to sign picks. and romo’s contract really doesnt kick in till ’15. dallas is really screwed

      • EaglePete

        even better.

        • cliff henny

          say what you want about howie, but if the eagles want to,can go full clean house, clear cap down to mid 30m, with about 10m dead. then following yr, clear another 20m off. by ’15 it really could be ’12-’15 picks and shady.

          • EaglePete

            ya but its hard to plan in that way, 2 to 3 yrs out in a league where teams turn it around in a season. When searching for a franchise QB, that may not be the worst thing however but the GM better be granted that amount of time.

          • cliff henny

            mainly 2 points, 1, at least dont both stink and have cap issues and 2, kelly just came in 1 yr too early for the house cleaning. nfl has a cap and dead money, the team we saw yesterday could and should look vastely different in 8 months, and whatever holes are left over, can knock them out in ’15.

        • defroe81

          i think when the eagles game switched over to the dallas game all us eagles fans ju ju and hate for the girls made the dallas D crumble and it was magnificent. good job eagles fans!

  • Andy

    Has anyone watched the replay of that punt that was ruled to not hit the Giants return man before Boykin recovered it? I only saw the televised replays but it looked to me like it glanced off the Giants’ hand and the trajectory of the ball appeared to change direction. Can anyone corroborate this? Not that it matters.

    • cliff henny

      looked like it misses by a c-hair

  • Dutch

    It’s not the Baby Sheil, it’s the Curse of Andy Reid. The Linc is the house Andy Reid built so naturally he not being here to act as host creates a problem in the spirits buried under the parking lots.

    Don’t throw the Baby out with the bath water.

  • Loke1988

    Watching that running game yesterday was like watching someone bang their head against the wall again and again and again….

    All those east west crap plays that went nowhere again and again. Bryce Brown hits the whole hard yet he has him running outside or allowing unblocked defenders in to smother him and McCoy…

    And all those stupid zone read running plays without EVER letting Barkley keep the ball and run. (Don’t blame the kid, he has a frigging speaker in his helmut with Chippah barking on the other end).

    Genius I tell you, simply genius…

    I need to alter my Fire Andy T-shirt

    • cliff henny

      worse yet, how about when bb got tackled by the guy sitting on his butt and being blocked.

  • GEAGLE

    Curious to hear some guys thoughts about Barkleys performance…
    ..
    the knock on him was that he had everything to be a good QB but it would be tough to overcome his week arm…yet I was shocked at some of the zip he was getting on throws yesterday…I remember he threw an absolute LASER to Avant, who seemed surprised at how much zip the ball had on it…curious to get peoples thoughts on the arm strength he displayed yesterday….I was pleasantly surprised..
    ….
    Now I know a lot of fans will just call him a bum and a waisted pick after yesterday but I saw some really encouraging things from the kid considering the team and the coach didn’t do him many favors, and that even the great Peyton manning made horrible mistakes and was rattled back when he only had a quarter of NFL experience under his belt….Barkley didn’t play well enough for us to win games but all things considered I came away more encouraged and pleasantly surprised by him then Discouraged by what he showed

    • Andy124

      I thought his arm was fine. I think he played like a rookie with almost no practice reps. I don’t think he played better than that though. If Barkley is starting against Oakland, I’ll look forward to seeing how he does.

      Plus, The Genetic Juggernaught KINNE will be “one snap away” from making this job his b***h and leading us to eternal glory.

    • jabostick

      Yeah, I guess I was expecting a worse arm just given all the talk about it. I thought he looked OK. Doesn’t have Vick’s laser but not a lot do. That last pass to Jackson… maybe just a bad pass but I wonder if his arm can keep up to DeSean’s speed.

      I’d probably put him in a similar category to Foles – potential is likely a really good backup/spot starter. Wouldn’t want him as the full time guy I dont think. Maybe Matt Schaub is the comp for their ceiling

      • GEAGLE

        We shall see….I won’t ever say what a guy can do at THAT position until I see him develope over two seasons and see a few games in his 3rd year(I’m talking playing time not neccessarily years)…by then he should have shown enough flashes of franchise QB potential..

        For example, I wouldn’t write off FOles right now and say what he can’t do…I believe in the right offense, with good weapons, and two years of playing time, he is a guy that will win games in this league…I’m just not yet sure he is a guy that will keep your from trying to improve that position….he was pathetic last week! but that means very little to me in the grand scheme of things…i don’t even think we have close to enough intel to know what he can be…

        generally speaking, I don’t think many prospects get drafted in the first 5 rounds that don’t have a skillset that has been successful in this league at one time or another…however you can just look at a LB and say, the guy just doesn’t have the speed to be able to keep up…
        ….
        But with QBs it’s really not as simple as physical gifts…that’s probably the most mentally challenging position in all of sports…I believe that the intangible, the football intelligence, the poise under fire, the Moxy, quick decision making, processing info is what decides how good of a QBS you become…we don’t see the most physically gifted QBs at the top of the list…it’s not as simple as big kid, fast like the wind! cannon arm equals great QB…..manning!Brady,Brees,Rogers these guys don’t fit into that category,,,if that’s what made a QB, then Cam Newton would be the best in the game….
        …..
        You can throw a freak pass rusher out there on third down with no experience and tell him to do whatever it takes to hit the QB before he throws the ball, and a kid might get it done….but a QB is nothing without preperation, seasoning and all the intangible things I listed above and IMO it’s a serious mistake to try and judge a QB before he has had the development to reach his potential in those areas…problem is that it’s very tough to reach that potential without being given game time with continuity to grow and develope…and I don’t care if we are talking about FOles,Barkley,Marriotta!Manziel, or T eddy…..PATIENCE and a few YEARS of seasoning will be required…and not having a proper supporting cast, is gambling with their development…

  • GEAGLE

    The ONLY thing Chip should be doing this week is sitting down with Shurmur and installing a pro style running game for Sunday…if we try that zone read crap in Oakland with Barkley or FOles, we will get killed….the raiders aren’t this great defense, but anyone who watched them play yesterday can see how darn hard they play and how hard they hit…they also are used to practicing against a mobile ZR’s QBs in Pryor….we will be killed if we try that this week with our slow QBs…on the road, we need a BIGTIME game out of Shady to have a chance this week with either young QB…well shady isn’t going to do a darn thing again if the linemen we are reading is just living in the backfield crushing shady repeatedly, daring our QB to keep it…….and if your QBs is NO threat to keep it, then it’s too slow developing of a play to work going forward…we got away with it with FOles because he is ATleast willing to keep it and make them pay for ten yards when they dare him by parting like the Red Sea……barley is not willing to keep it. He knows he will get killed..it’s not his game, he Isn used to it, he is just getting over a horrible shoulder injury, and he doesn’t have the big body FOles has to withstand it
    …..
    Vick isn’t playing this week, and the league has figured out how to shut it down if your QB is no threat to run…now we are playing against a Defense used to practicing against it who gets rowdy and plays hard at home…if Chip doesn’t install some pro style running plays or ATleast two and 3back pistol sets(some with two TE lined up in the backfield as blockers)…then we are doomed,because shady will get stonewalled and neither QB is experienced enough to win on the road with backup WRs, without a run game….Will,Chip “adjust” or will he stubbornly bang his head against a brick wall, and be driven by his ego to continue fitting a square peg in a round hole?

    Even if Vick was going to play the entire game against the giants, it would have been obvious early on that he wouldn’t be keeping it much yesterday, and perry Fewell is no idiot…they would have figured out Vick ain’t keeping it and adjusted anyway…so,in reality, a more pro style running game should have been implemented last week for the cowboys game, but the fools gold in Tampa fueled his ego into thinking we could get away with a ZR offense with a QB who is no threat to run….we are running the ZR and getting NONE of the advantages that come with a ZR, all while teams are magnifying the disadvantages that come with a ZR…..How can this possibly continue with Vick sidelined probably til after the bye week?
    ….
    I don’t even know why It a mad….finally we are off the darn hamster wheel and this next stretch of games is going to tell us a HECKUVA LOT about what we have I’m our coach, and what we have in your young QBs who silly fans and media treat like chopped liver, without even having the intel required to be able to make that judgement….since we aren’t competing for A SB, this is what we should have been doing all along…so cheer up Folks…a blessing in disguise..we may not enjoy success, but we will get some answers to so,e CRUCIAL QUESTIONS that will enable us to make the best decisions going forward that allow us to take the shortest path back to greatness….the more intel we have, the better of a chance we have at not making a personel mistake..everytime we don’t make a mistake, like signing Barwin,Cary and Fletcher…it’s one step closer to being back where we belong! Vick Down,,now the only thing really stopping us from knowing what we have and what we need is……..TRENT COLE!!!!!!! He is just an obstacle right now!! A Hinderince to our future….Love him for the career he had so I can’t wish injury on him…so, ii will wish Howie interjecting and telling Davis to get Graham on the damn field….I don’t care what the giants ran yesterday, the snap count for Graham,Curry and Logan is inexcusable!!! half of the big plays in crucial moments this year come from Vinny curry being in the game….yet he was only given 16 opportunities to make a game changing play? Inexcusable!! Our young puppies need to play……Like I feel it’s important to find out what we have in FOles and Barkley! it’s just as important to give Graham every chance possible to succeed….he should ATleast be given a chance that he isn’t a double digit sack guy before he hits free agency….ESPECIALLY when the guy that’s playing in front of I him hasn’t notched a sack in 17 games…Whenever Graham has been on the field, he usually make things happen…it’s just that he has never really been played enough for it to matter…..enough with the Trent Cole…ATleast put them on a 50-50 time share…come on!!!

  • George

    They should have run it 2 times and pass if they had too. That’s how this offense should run when you don’t have the right personal at QB.

  • defroe81

    its tebow time yall someon tell kelly to pick that dude up and play him… all i ever hear is we need a running qb to make this offense work. well whats the issue his arm? all i hear is people complain about foles and barkley’s arms. at least he has the running part down. what else to complain about with tebow religion? who cares about that… i dont see why we shouldnt bring him in and give him a shot.

  • defroe81

    holy crap i mentioned tebow and my comment got taken down lol or hidden because i dont see it…

    • Andy124

      Try reversing your sort. Disqus is just goofy sometimes.

      • defroe81

        oh yeah thanks wow disqcrap sucks…

  • Damien

    I love how, being a football writer for so long, you’ve gotten used to saying “medical personnel” so much that you called the birthing doctors that. lol