Member of Penn State’s Kappa Delta Rho Defends Fraternity

Frat allegedly posted photographs of nude, unconscious women to Facebook. Member says it wasn’t malicious.

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When news broke this week that a Penn State fraternity had allegedly run two private Facebook pages where members posted photographs of nude, unconscious women, hazing and other illicit deeds, we, like everyone else, wondered: How could anyone do this? Who could justify such behavior?

An ex-fraternity member first told authorities about the Facebook pages, which were dubbed “Covert Business Transactions” and “2.o,” according to a police warrant. They allegedly featured photos of “nude females that appeared to be passed out” as well as “marijuana and edibles, concentrates, ADD medication, and some cocaine.” Police said fraternity members could face charges of invasion of privacy and harassment.

We found a member of Kappa Delta Rho who was willing to talk anonymously about what happened and how fraternity members are reacting to news coverage of the scandal. His remarks offer a glimpse into the mindset at Kappa Delta Rho.

First, he provided us with this statement:

It is shameful to see the self-righteousness that has sprung from the woodworks in response to the alleged Penn State fraternity “scandal.” Here’s a quick reality check: everyone — from Bill Clinton to your grandfather to every Greek organization in the nation does the same old stuff, just as they have been for the entirety of human history. That’s where that lil’ old quip, don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house, comes from. And believe me, we all live in a glass house. Thus it is laughably pathetic to see the media spring on an occasional incident such as this, especially a media complicit in overturning the same sexual mores and moral standards that for millennia had at least to some extent curbed outright licentiousness. The fire of indignant, misplaced self-righteousness that looks to ruin people’s lives and unjustly ruin reputations is the abuse and violation that should be at the center of discussion, not the humorous, albeit possibly misguided, antics of a bunch of college kids.

We wanted to talk to him more about those “antics” — the ones that got Kappa Delta Rho suspended for a year.

The fraternity member agreed to a brief interview with Philadelphia magazine. A lightly edited version, in which our questions have been paraphrased, is below.

Philly Mag: In the statement you provided to us, you said “everyone … does the same old stuff.” Do you know other fraternities that have similar Facebook pages?

KDR member: No.

Philly Mag: Then what did you mean?

KDR member: What I meant is that everybody fools around, everybody makes jokes, everybody occasionally engages in … what might be considered inappropriate behavior, and it’s not just, shall we say, when somebody happens to be caught doing the same thing that everyone else is doing … [and] they’re just tossed in the crowd, you know. Like back in the Middle Ages, they would find a witch or somebody who the community thought was a witch or something like that and toss them to the crowd, you know? When the person’s no different than anyone else.

Philly Mag: What would you consider an appropriate response from the media?

KDR member: I don’t think that something like this should be reported … as spectacularly and scandalously and widespread as it has been. It’s minor. There’s misdemeanors every day, thousands and thousands of little misdemeanors in every single community in the United States, and this is no different. This is a few select individuals who did a few select  possibly or probably inappropriate things, right? So along with thousands and thousands of other people, just in this community of State College, it should be reported no differently, if at all. A little citation, where all the rest of that content goes, not the front page of CNN, of The New York Times, and so forth.

Philly Mag: You’re laying a lot of blame on the media. Do you think the frat deserves any type of blame?

KDR member: It’s a hard question to answer. I think people should be responsible for themselves, and, I mean, I obviously had nothing to do with any of these postings, but … just think, is it smart to post this on social media? Is this ethical in regards to the people who it involves? But this is not a criminal thing. It’s not anyone else’s business, pretty much. It’s an inter-fraternity thing and that’s that.

Philly Mag: You said you didn’t have anything to do with the postings. Were you a member of KDR’s secret Facebook page known as “2.o”?

KDR member: Yeah.

Philly Mag: Did you comment on any of the posts?

KDR member: No.

Philly Mag: Did you post any of the photos?

KDR member: No, no, absolutely not. I’m a good guy.

Philly Mag: Do you regret being part of the group at all?

KDR member: Obviously, retrospectively with this having happened, sure, but the thing is, that it was a satirical group. It’s like, there’s literally sites like that that millions of people access, whether it’s totalfratmove.com or any of the other thousands of sites that post, you know, pictures of girls and post funny text conversations and Snapchat stories and things like that. It was a satirical group. It wasn’t malicious whatsoever. It wasn’t intended to hurt anyone. It wasn’t intended to demean anyone. It was an entirely satirical group and it was funny to some extent. Some of the stuff, yeah, it’s raunchy stuff, as you would expect from a bunch of college-aged guys. But, I mean, you could go on any one of hundreds and thousands of different sites to access the same kind of stuff and obviously a lot worse and a lot more explicit.

Philly Mag: You said the page was funny. What was funny about it?

KDR member: It’s not funny. Funny’s not always the right word. It’s satire. There’s a certain stereotypical Greek life culture and, as you see in movies, people try to live up to that and people try to kind of incorporate those elements, but it’s like, you know what Snapchat is?

Philly Mag: Yes.

KDR member: Yeah, like you get a Snapchat, and people send like raunchy Snapchats all the time. … It’s not a malicious type of thing … Everybody’s … saying, “Oh, there’s pictures of passed-out girls,” and making it seem out to be such a malicious thing. It’s like, yeah, girls pass out or fall asleep all the time and somebody takes a Snapchat or picture and, like, it’s not that it’s funny. But it’s just satire. … Nobody’s sitting there like, “Oh … how are we going to victimize these people?” … Go on a site like totalfratmove.com [where they post things like] the girl of the day or … like the swimsuit model of the day … it’s just, you know, fooling around.

Philly Mag: But isn’t there a difference between a swimsuit model and a woman who is photographed unconsciously?

KDR member: Right, so that’s what I was saying … on those sites, it’s not just swimsuit models. It’s girls doing stuff at parties. It’s people putting themselves in provocative situations and things like that.

Philly Mag: The first secret Facebook page was allegedly called “Covert Business Transactions.” Then, according to the police warrant, KDR took that page down after a victim saw a photo of herself topless on it and threatened the fraternity. Why did KDR relaunch the page?

KDR member: Well, the site, first of all, was primarily used for communication for important fraternity business and so forth and so on. The questionable postings are single instances out of hundreds, if not thousands, of different postings that are related to stuff like community service to THON, which is our charity organization, to social events and so forth and so on. Once in a blue moon, there was a questionable post of this sort that everybody’s now referring to … We obviously need a group to communicate. Some chapters use listservs, other chapters use Facebook groups, so it’s not like, oh, this was a group that was intended for distribution of this kind of material. Not at all. This was a group intended for, right, communication within the fraternity.

Philly Mag: One of the things you said in your statement is that the media is looking “to ruin people’s lives and unjustly ruin reputations.” Couldn’t the same thing be said about the fraternity? That by posting photos of nude, unconscious women online, as well as intimate messages with women, that it could ruin their lives or their reputations?

KDR member: How would it do so when it’s kept within the entirely, well, it’s supposed to be an entirely private group of 144 people?

Philly Mag: Right, it’s 144 people on the Internet.

KDR member: But it’s a private Facebook group.

Philly Mag: But doesn’t that put a lot of trust in all 144 guys? Any of them can take a photo from the “secret” group and make it public.

KDR member: But nobody except the one kid who snitched out this group did that … It just doesn’t work that way … It was just these occasional Snapchats, these occasional pictures of people doing silly things … there’s plenty of self-demeaning pictures … like guys would post pictures of themselves looking stupid or doing dumb stuff. … It wasn’t a legitimate concern. … It is a brotherhood and nobody expects anyone to go and post stuff publicly or so forth and so on. It’s a real disappointment that this kid went and did this.

Philly Mag: Is there anything the world should know about these allegations?

KDR member: I think that the entire world and all of society would do better to return to higher standards of morality, of moral and ethical conduct, and that certainly includes fraternities, but doesn’t exclude anyone else. And to single out individuals or organizations who happen to get caught in compromising situations that everybody else is equally complicit in, is not fair. It’s not just … Just like what happened when Penn State, Penn State in general, during the whole Sandusky thing … Obviously, it was a tragedy, it was a horrible thing … But it included Sandusky and maybe a few other administrators. It didn’t include the entire football team. It didn’t include this whole university. You know, who cares about that? Just toss all of Penn State to the wolves, to the crowd. Let them chew them out, chew them up, and spit them out, as they say, you know?

Philly Mag: Are you scared at all?

KDR member: Scared of what?

Philly Mag: Possible charges, what this might do to your reputation.

KDR member: No, because I had nothing to do with it.

Philly Mag: Are you scared for your fraternity brothers?

KDR member: Yeah, I mean … scared is the wrong word. I hope nobody gets in trouble because nobody did anything worth getting in trouble over.

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  • USMCGY

    In these times a no comment at this time works wonders……..

  • Weapon Y

    I’m pretty sure this kid doesn’t know what the word “satire” means

    • pete

      You beat me to it.

    • Ryan

      Ha but how about the logic of frat bro saying what frat bros do is acceptable b/c a website named totalFRATmove.com does same.

      • flint2

        What’s your problem? The NAMBLA site said it was perfectly natural!

        • WordsofWisdom

          I just looked up NAMBLA. OMG, you are too funny!!

    • Natalie S.

      I think it might actually be an alum by the way he talks.

      • Weapon Y

        I’m a current PSU student BTW. Some of our alums are just as stupid as some of the kids who go to this school, so you might be onto something. I can thankfully say the majority of both students and alums aren’t as ignorant as this punk.

      • AmIaTravelingMan?

        …and whatnot and so forth…

    • flint2

      That word used in connection w/ this case sounds like a desperate defense attorney talking’……….

      • Jeanne Jansen

        You would have to be too desperate to use licentiousness when defending sexually reprehensible behavior. It would be a last ditch effort. I actually don’t think a lawyer would ever use it. You might as well say I have no self-control when it comes to anything sexual and I don’t follow appropriate rules because media. It is a damning word.

    • F

      I’m pretty sure Penn State students don’t know the meaning of the word licentiousness either – or Penn students for that matter

    • WordsofWisdom

      Yeah, but he sure uses it enough! 😉 Just another of his excuses for such shameful behavior.

    • Muzzlehatch

      Yes, I was hearing Inigo Montoya in my head as I was reading it: “You keep using that word…”

    • Greg

      You got that right. The question must not have come up on his SAT.

    • History of Bubbles

      Or the word “criminal.”

    • NM2000

      100 percent agree. My first thought on reading that was “how does someone who thinks this qualifies as satire get into college? Does he not even know what satire is?”

      • Sam Hain

        They got into Penn state

    • Vangotech

      I think the entire interview may be a smart piece of satire. Either that or the kid’s just an idiot.

  • PSUstudent

    As a Penn Stater, I am utterly embarrassed by this individual’s opinion. I am all for identifying the guilty parties and punishing them rather than throwing a blanket over the entire fraternity, but you can’t argue this Facebook page was anything other than despicable.

  • Antony

    All I’m hearing in his comments: “Don’t call me a horrible person for doing things horrible people do, because EVERYONE does these same horrible things.” He somehow thinks being a selfish, inconsiderate, unkind, dishonorable man is the typical, acceptable status quo of a grown up, instead of seeing it as immoral and dispicable.

    • ere

      I am sure he is just like his Dad!

      • Preach!

        This. Sons learn from fathers!

        • WordsofWisdom

          Which he will, ultimately, pass down to his son(s), then the grandson(s), and on. This utter disregard is a form of abuse against not only obviously women, but everyone. This is a generational, taught/learned cycle that must be broken, and can be stopped. Let’s just pray this guy is sterile.

        • Greg

          HAH! Reminds me of the commercial with the kid who’s father catches him with a syringe.

          “I learned it from you dad”!

    • Mike Levine

      he’s talking about the average behavior of college kids. people get pictures of passed out drunk and nude people a lot in college, especially if they have extremely active social lives. i’m not condoning this behavior at all, just saying it’s not as unusual as the media is portraying it to be.

      • GoodGooglyMoogly

        Uh I’m in college and nothing like that has ever happened to anyone I know nor do I hear my fellow students defending this, in fact many are concerned whether or not any of those girls were raped. I wish people would stop with the generalizations about collegiate behavior. No not everyone who parties drinks until they pass out or wind compromised. There are plenty of students who are not interested in that sort of behavior.

        It speaks more to mob mentality that comes with being a part of an exclusive group like a sorority, fraternity, football team, eating club etc. and poor parenting. Penn State is special, these are the kids who still defend Joe Paterno after it was exposed he knew children were being abused on his watch.

        • Mike Levine

          you must not go to a party school then. also, you shouldn’t be complaining about people making generalizations if you generalize penn state students right after. kind of hypocritical, isn’t it?

          • LaSargenta

            And I assume you can give us statistics showing a majority of Penn State students speaking out against Paterno? Thereby giving the lie to that generalization?

            There are a lot of people who don’t go to a “party school”. In fact, hard as it may be to believe, there are a lot of people who go to university to learn something. Not to drink, watch sports, or ‘party’. I do wonder about the families of those who send their kids to known party schools — and I make sweeping generalizations about them, such as they are irresponsible and their brats don’t deserve to be hired by me after graduation.

          • WordsofWisdom

            Thank you, LaSargenta! So grateful for your words. This is one rare time when I’d rather these losers live on welfare, just to keep them out of the working environment! I pray that these brats are the minority, and it is wonderful to hear your voice of reason.

          • Bruce

            Wow, you must make your parents proud. Lots of people do it, so it is no big deal. Well, lots of people murder people, rape people, steal things- i guess we should treat them as no big deal since everyone does it. You are quite the moron.

          • GoodGooglyMoogly

            I go to Rutgers. If caring about about others being injured or exploited makes me a hypocrite then so be it. Not making any generalizations about Penn that hasn’t been proven or any stats about the propensity of violence and the “bystander effect” when people are involved in exclusive groups.

            Google Penn State students and Joe Paterno.

          • Quaker

            Don’t refer to Penn State as Penn.
            Penn is the Philadelphia Ivy League school with real students.
            Penn State is the redneck state school with “students.”
            See the difference?

          • GoodGooglyMoogly

            LOL! While you are at it you should write every single newspaper that does the same see… “Penn State Frat Guy Incoherently Defends Sketchy Facebook Group” (copy and paste headline)

            “Penn” is used a universal nickname for everything Pennsylvania as I lived West Chester.

            Women and children < Penn State.

          • PSU graduates students w/ JOBS

            Penn is most definitely not used as a universal nickname for everything pennsylvania. Its pretty much used only to refer to the University of Pennsylvania.

          • GoodGooglyMoogly

            Penn Lake Park, Penn High School, Penn Relays… I can continue….

          • Bill Karim

            You’re an idiot Mike, and you are probably “Mr. Anonymous” who is quoted in this article. Penn State ain’t good for much of value, but there’s alot more to it than taking pics of nudes/passed out girls without their permission. The best advice anyone could give you right now is, “Shut up, dumbass”. Sincerely, a PSU alum

          • WordsofWisdom

            Regardless of the “party school”, or any generalizations — no excuse for this. Stop making excuses. You sound like the moron from Penn State. These victims were UNCONSCIOUS! Don’t you get that?

        • WordsofWisdom

          Oh Googly, if only this mentality was limited to exclusive groups. Alas, this mentality is everywhere – and horribly worse in some parts of the world, because it is inside us. No, this mentality goes much deeper into the very nature of humanity as we are today. This mentality is world-wide, humanity-wide regardless of race, gender, location, social status. Sadly, until humanity evolves further toward the conscious, decisive choice of non-acceptance of such a mentality, this mob mentality will get away with it.

          • GoodGooglyMoogly

            Prove it. My examples have stats to back it (gangs, police, etc.) Or is this the sociopath sympathy hour? LOL!

      • Archiduchesse

        If that behavior is so common, then how is it going to change unless some people start being outraged by it?

        • Jake Smith

          people are outraged by murder… hasn’t prevented it. Being outraged doesn’t solve problems. Taking time to teach and set a good example for our youth in America is the best bet. This should serve as an example of very poor decision making, but I just think that the hateful words towards PSU not only doesn’t solve anything, but also is pointless, considering it only reflects a small minority of the institution, and it is happening at countless other institutions as well.

      • nicole

        It needs to be completely UNusual. And yes you are condoning it by normalizing it.

      • Antony

        Oh course he is, and I maintain that the average college student doesn’t act as he does. He -and I suppose you?- both think this kind of behavior is okay because “everybody does it”, when “everybody” is a very small group you seem to be immersed in.

        • RLK2

          Agreed. Also, the excuse that everybody does it, is a very dangerous group mind think or set. Because everyone does it does not make it morally or ethically correct. History is full of these examples of “everybody does it” that were wrong. This frat guy is scary. He seems to be a complete misogynist and fails to have any empathy. Typical privileged white hetero male.

          • WordsofWisdom

            Typical sociopath, more like it; and it is very scary that people of his mind set are our future citizens and leaders.

          • Veronica Dee

            I never understood the excuse of “everybody does it.” I can’t imagine I was the only one who saw the good in standing apart from the crowd. Why would I want to use the crowd’s behavior as an excuse for my own?

      • WordsofWisdom

        Which makes it even more disturbing! There is almost a small comfort if it was this singular incident. But, “it’s not as unusual …”?? OMG! 144 boys chronologically old enough – but clearly not men enough to see how wrong this is- plus you, and anyone who thinks it is the “average behavior” to post photos of nude, displayed, UNCONSCIOUS, UNCONSENTING, UNAWARE anyone- period. Did you forget that? And you are using “extremely active social lives” as an excuse?? You ARE condoning this behavior simply by accepting it! It is exactly that attitude that must be exposed and shamed for precisely what it is — thoughtless, selfish, juvenile, demeaning, harmful, cruel. How would you feel if it was your sister? Would you be so accepting?

        • Veronica Dee

          Yeah, I think I have a fairly active social life and I’ve never felt the need to take pictures of naked people passed out and post them on line.

      • LaSargenta

        Hey, Mike Levine, why did you erase your Disqus account? Afraid now that something foolish on the interwebz will come back to haunt you in a bit?

    • kglnyc

      If he were any sort of self-respecting man who owned up to his behavior and really wasn’t ashamed of it, he wouldn’t be hiding behind anonymity. Man up and step out of the shadows, fratboy!

    • Hola mi pichola

      Settle down you wuss.

  • Ryan

    Wow this kid is a moron. Contradicts himself over and over, makes irrelevant comparisons, and justifies posting pictures of naked, unconscious women. Only smart thing – he remained anonymous.

    • Joey

      Where does he contradict himself?

      • shaka

        “What these guys did was wrong, but they didn’t do anything wrong so they shouldn’t be punished.” <— that's a contradiction. He says that general thing several different ways throughout the interview.

        • mastjaso

          Yeah, but we’re talking about a college frat kid, not the President’s speech writer. It’s pretty clear that he knows what they did was wrong, just not front page of national news wrong.

          He’s trying to make an argument of severity of punishment, he’s just being somewhat inarticulate about it.

          • RepubAnon

            Notice how the frat boy thinks that the entire world should return to what he characterizes as a higher level of moral and ethical behavior – yet feels no inclination to start doing so himself? In other words, he says the actions were immoral and unethical, yet nobody should “make a big deal” out of such behavior.

            This is contradictory: does he really think the way to combat immoral and unethical behavior is to behave as though it’s the new normal?

          • Archiduchesse

            Um, I’m pretty sure he argued several times that the frat shouldn’t be punished.

          • dani

            I love how he then says “no I’m a good guy” wonderful contradiction considering he was just defending the guys

          • Bill Karim

            “I hope nobody gets in trouble because nobody did anything worth getting in trouble over.”

            So his “arguument about the severity of punishment” is that there should be NO punishment, according to you, and the only problem you see is that he’s “somewhat inarticulate”?? You sound like you’d really fit in well at KDR

          • NepotismIsDomesticTerrorism

            “…he’s just being somewhat inarticulate about it.”
            The passwords are:
            1. Coward;
            2. Hypocrite; and,
            3. Idiot.

          • scholarlymama

            That’s a Pennsyltucky State edumacation at work. It costs how much a year to attend?!?

      • PAPlan

        He also says “it was kind of a funny thing” and then in the next response says “it wasn’t funny, funny isn’t the right word.”

    • JA JA

      a kid like this doesn’t remain anonymous his “friends” are probably throwing him under the bus.

  • eadtuff

    The only way this could have come across worse was if he called it “horseplay.”

    • Mark Cofta

      Horses have more sense. They’re not jackasses.

  • Hellas

    Super glad my fraternity doesn’t recruit or extend bids to idiots like this. Log off, bro.

  • Roger

    Wow. Such an embarrassment to the institution .

  • KEL

    “It’s an inter-fraternity thing and that’s that.” What a painfully douchey child. This makes me sad for America.

    • ALUMNI

      You don’t what being in a fraternity is or what it means to it’s members. Do not be ignorant.

      • hellslittlestangel

        Evidently, being in a fraternity means being too busy to study and get an education. Take a remedial English class, stupid.

        • Jake Smith

          Evidently? Because some very smart and successful people have come from fraternities. You generalizing about a college student doesn’t make you seem to respectable yourself.

      • Archiduchesse

        The victims were not members of that fraternity, so obviously this is not something the fraternity should be handling, even if the fraternity appeared capable and willing to handle it.

        Also, does this defense apply to gangs now too? “Yeah we mugged that woman in an alley, but this is an inter-gang thing so the police shouldn’t get involved.”

      • Just’liloleme

        I know exactly what Greek life is about, as does my husband. It’s a pity that your parents reared such a narcissistic child.

        • KEL

          Well said.

      • KEL

        **its. you’re a real treat.

      • KEL

        Know what I do know? That you’re an enabler. Looking forward to the criminal charges : )

      • NepotismIsDomesticTerrorism

        “You don’t what being in a fraternity is or what it means to it’s members.”
        Living, drinking, and domestic terrorizing with Your Own Kind so as to secure future employment, a docile female spouse, and membership at the Right country clubs.

      • surlybastard

        “Do you even rape bro?”

      • guest

        Sorry – but Frats don’t make their own laws now. Your comment is ignorant.

  • Shameonyoupennstate

    What an idiot.

  • maxdi

    Something odd must be in the water at Penn State, where the Administration effectively condoned pederasty because of the Football Gods and frats condone serial sexual harassment because “Everybody does it.” What a dumb place.

    • Meg

      You think because one idiot member of the fraternity that committed these disgusting actions is defending them, that we (Administration, Intrafraternity Council, students) CONDONE posting pictures of unconscious naked women online? Penn State is a top university, not a “dumb place.” All this article shows is that at least one dumb person goes here and he decided to open his dumb mouth. As an intelligent and humane person, like most of the people at Penn State, I’m shocked and disgusted by his words.

      • maxdi

        I agree with you that it is shocking what a collectively dumb place Penn State is. Many more than one vocal person participated in the frat scheme. It was clearly institutionalized, just as the Sandusky Pederastic Crime Spree was an institutional scandal with a bevy of abettors over many years certainly smart enough to know better but not smart enough to act better. The smart people need to clean house. If you are one of those, good luck, and just do it.

      • me

        You mean at least 145 (144 members of this group + the apologist in this thread)

      • Natalie S.

        144 people were in this group. More than just one idiot member. If the chapter didn’t condone this behavior they would have deleted the posts as soon as that idiot member posted them.

      • Archiduchesse

        Hard to tell. If the outside world (media, etc.) didn’t hear about this story, would Penn State have done anything at all?

    • rk29

      The thing that bogles my mind is why the university is getting any blame here?

      Yes it is a bad association, but it isn’t the job of the university to be a police force, if something illegal was done, thats where the actual police come in. The cover-up with Sandusky was completely different and the university failed miserably, but here the fraternity was suspended and there is an investigation underway.

      • pentimenti

        Any sensible university would give a thought to abandoning connections with the Greek system.

        • rk29

          How often and how many incidents are there versus the 40k students there and the thousands in fraternities. There is more risk at a general apartment party versus a fraternity party given the amount of eyes, people, and foot traffic.in fraternities there is more likely a roommate and with more exits and commercial requirements to meet fire requirements, itis safer than what I saw in apartments with open cups vs cans of beer.

          It is easier to tie individual actions to a whole with a fraternity and itmakes for a better media story.

          Yes the guys at SAE are racist d-bags but other kids at OU aren’t?

      • maxdi

        The university is the Big Kahuna in the geo-area. Everything revolves around its orbit. You know that. I know that. Everybody knows that.

        • rk29

          Absolutely but when crimes occur, what is it that people expect a university to be quakified to do, especially after the fact. Most of these occur off campus, even fraternities aren’t on university land and under the jurisdiction of university police.

          If a crime occurs it should be reported to law enforcement and not some judicial board which is going to lack the capabilities of law enforcement and the burden of proof that comes from the court system.

          I would report a robbery to a university panel or an assault, You call the police.

          The university has targeted fraternities before as haslocal law enforcement.

  • ere

    Satire? The use of the word just proves how uneducated this guy really is. Of course this stuff has been going on all over for hundreds of years. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. Penn State attracts alot of suburban jock lug-heads. They are raised in typical sexist, small towns where football rules. Everyone who throws a ball is treated like a God, and the females (especially their moms) would kill for them or to be with them. I am glad to see $$$ being spent to perpetuate this crap. Can’t wait until they graduate of become a real part of society. This, my friends, is why Americans are so way behind the Indian and Asian students. Have Fun.

    • Jake Smith

      Funny, because the top Asian and Indian students come to where for college (generally)? OH, that’s right, the US! The test scores are only higher there, because only half of their youth goes to school, and takes the tests. I know a lot of Penn State students (as I am a PA kid who is in college now at a liberal arts school) and some of them are VERY smart kids, who are very good people, and some of them are in Frats. Your generalizations are just rude and ignorant. Also, check your grammar before posting (and claiming other people are uneducated). You’re probably the same type of person who cries for stereotyping, when I’m pretty sure you just did the same thing yourself. “Have fun.”

    • Asian American

      I agree with you mostly here. Except the last bit. I’m Asian and American and am sick of generalizations both as a minority and an American born to immigrant parents. I’ve seen upright human beings of all races. I’ve also seen total dumbasses of all ethnic backgrounds. In recent news a few weeks ago, south-Asian American was recently arrested for raping a girl on campus, claiming he was reenacting “50 Shades of Grey”. It’s not about students’ races. To avoid assumptions that anyone is OR isn’t capable of being total d-bags, people shouldn’t be making these sorts of racial generalizations.

  • demitallanyway

    “to single out individuals or organizations who happen to get caught is not fair.” What is he, twelve? Is that the caliber of adult Penn State is sending out into the world these days?

    • Mark Cofta

      Right! By this guy’s logic, we shouldn’t single out any murderers because some of them get away with it.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        And these guys would have gotten away with it if someone hadn’t
        “snitched [them] out”. A telling turn of phrase there.

    • gillfish

      He was definitely raised in the everyone gets a trophy generation.

      • Mike

        That’s exactly what I was thinking! I’m afraid we have an entire generation being raised with this mentality.

        • gillfish

          The baby boomers have ruined everything. They have no one to blame but themselves.

          • WordsofWisdom

            Seriously, you are now blaming the baby boomers for “ruining everything”? Talk about generalizations. Wise up, this kind of attitude and behavior has been around since mankind has been. And it will continue ad infinitum until people (everyone – you, me, everyone) stops accepting and making excuses for this wrong behavior, stop pointing fingers everywhere and at everyone, and start looking in the mirror to see how I/we can change ourselves to correct such attitudes and behaviors.

          • Colin V

            Boomers are the most entitled generation. I hear ppl saying kids these days are entitled but I don’t see that at all. I get way more respect and politeness from young people (under 30) than boomers. I worked at a place where I met lots of people from different age groups. Boomers by far were the most demanding, complained the most and usually if there was someone trying underhanded things to get what they want it was a boomer.

          • gillfish

            It’s not an excuse. It’s a fact. Baby boomers have screwed up a lot of this country with their endless entitlement. Passed it down and boom everyone gets a trophy.

          • Guest

            I get so tired of this crap. Want to jump intro cyberspace and look guys in the eye and say really? How did people born between 1946-64 ruin everything? Every single thing on God’s green earth. Just as stupid as Jews rule the world, Illuminati rule the world and the next black guy you see just robbed the 7-11 on his way to raping a white girl. The paucity of historical knowledge on a site like this is especially depressing.

        • eadtuff

          right, fraternities were all created in the 90s-2000s.

          • FactCheck

            I hope you’re being facetious, because frats have been around for at least 100 years. In fact, Henry Adams bemoaned their “antics” (to use this man’s word) in his autobiography.

      • PAPlan

        Please. There have always been a minority of people that are absolutely horrible, in every generation. This generation is no different than any other. The people before you were saying the same thing and the people before them were saying the same thing.

      • Colin V

        I beg to differ, the “everyone gets a trophy” generation is the boomer generation. They are the most entitled, spoiled @holes ever. I’ve done lots of deals over craigslist and whenever I get crap it’s from a boomer. Usually younger people are much more honest and polite to deal with. When I go to do a deal and see an older guy in his 50’s I know it spells trouble. He’s gonna try and rip me off or he severely misrepresented his items.

        Let’s also add how they are destroying the environment, running our country into the ground and we’ll all be forced to care for them in 10-15 years.

      • Barry_D

        No. First, because stuff like that’s been going on for a long, long time.
        Second, because that whole culture is ‘**WE** get rewarded, and the rest we don’t care about’.

    • Barry_D

      ‘Penn State’. The best way to describe that place is that Sandusky was barred – not from coming onto campus, but from bringing minors onto campus. Can anybody come up with an innocent reason for that?

  • Zarney Barnfarft

    Did he get coached by Joe Biden before this interview?

    • citizenBarbara

      Can you elaborate Zarney? Maybe you have an idea that you can articulate?

      • Sloe Joe

        This kid sounds retarded, and Joe Biden sounds retarded.

        I think that’s what he means.

  • Bob

    Kids got a point

  • Stacey

    Someone needs to explain to this boy how his outraged concern for his fraternity’s “privacy” is exactly what they denied to the girls who pictures they shared without permission.

    • Mark Cofta

      The reasoning about this is pretty simple: “What if it was YOUR sister?” Most people, even dolts like this guy, will realize while pondering that question why this was so wrong.

      • Al O

        That only works if you consider women human too.

        • Acharn0

          I think it only works when you consider other people, who are not members of your ingroup, human.

      • LaSargenta

        Nah. I used to say that, but, too many guys (who did have sisters/wives/mothers) would then act all proprietary — which isn’t helpful either.

        The fact is, creeps do this kind of thing whether or not they have a sister and someone who is a mensch doesn’t, also whether or not they have a sister.

        • WordsofWisdom

          The fact is, creeps will do this king of thing … so long as people keep thinking like this creep, his 143 frat brothers, and every other Neanderthal out there who thinks what these future “men” (and I use that word very loosely with these animals) did “isn’t a legitimate concern”.

        • History of Bubbles

          Yeah, I get uncomfortable about that too. People say “What if it was your sister?” in an attempt to get guys like this to empathize with the victim, by using the example of a woman whom he presumably sees as a human being. But yeah, while he’d be angry if it were his sister, it’d be for all the wrong reasons. Reasons that tie back into why he’s doing this to women the first place. He wouldn’t be angry because he cared about his sister’s suffering, he’d be angry because some other man dishonored him by ruining his property. Maybe people like this would be more likely to get it if we said “What if it was YOU?”

      • WordsofWisdom

        He’d probably see nothing wrong with that, either … so long as it stayed within the private page of 144 frat brothers! It’s stupefying that in the 21st century there are still so many Neanderthals. This attitude that women are nothing, society is nothing, morality is nothing, must be exposed for the ugliness that it is if we are ever to evolve into the better world that we all dream of and hope for.

        • VATom

          Why blame Neanderthals for the misconduct if these fraternity clowns? There is no scientific proof that they(Neanderthals) ever behaved like these self-entitled fraternity morons!

      • ragazza

        Then it would be “My sister would never do anything like that. She’s a nice girl.”

      • http://www.skreee.de/ Skreee

        No, not “what if it was your sister” but “what if if were YOU”.

        • Mark Cofta

          I was trying to suggest a way to reach a guy like this on a level he would understand . . . he probably sees his sister as his property and would want to protect it, but thinks he’s invulnerable to attack because he’s a man.

        • Barry_D

          ‘But it’s not, so it’s OK!’

        • spicynujac

          If I went to a strangers house alone, or with friends who abandoned me, drank copious amounts of alcohol, passed out (which requires a LOT of drinking), and then someone photographed me? Nah, that would be the least of my worries.

    • mastjaso

      He doesn’t seem outraged at the privacy violation, he seems upset that it’s getting so much attention and blown up into such a huge deal.

      • Bill Karim

        Right, he’s trying to redirect the outrage. He’s not even addressing what his brothers did, he goes right to say, ‘you know what’s worse than invading someone’s privacy? singling someone out when there are yet others out there who do similar things”

      • WordsofWisdom

        He’s only pissed off because they got caught!! This guy should go into politics … he’ll fit right in.

      • limonzerga

        Totally agree.

        The ironic part is their generation has already said they don’t care about privacy and having it is a thing of the past with so many devices capable of taking photos and videos anywhere. The funny part is its 2015, everybody should know using social media to post questionable content is just plain stupid.

        Must be another generational thing where these idiots don’t understand you can’t have it both ways.

        • fustalker

          That’s the thing though, they do care about privacy. They care about it as it pertains to them. He’s upset because the antics going on in the “but it’s private” facebook group got out but as far as the privacy of the women they exploited, “nobody did anything worth getting in trouble about.”

        • Higgi

          What do you mean this generation has said we don’t need privacy? That makes no sense, I value my privacy and have a very limited social media presence, don’t lump an entire generation together as the same.

      • PlacidAir

        It IS a “big deal”!

    • 370HSSV 0773H

      He obviously doesn’t see a girl as an equal to himself. Caveman mentality.

      • WordsofWisdom

        Terrifying thought that these pigs will some day be husbands to someone’s – possibly your – sister, cousin, female friends. Wonder how he will feel in the future if some good ol’ frat bros post such pictures of his own daughter to 144 frat brothers? Don’t be surprised if we hear in the news that these morons are serial rapists or murderers, with their obvious disregard of women, society, everyone else. And these are the leaders of tomorrow?? God save us from them.

        • AmIaTravelingMan?

          Terrifying even more that these are the people who tend to get voted into public office. Where I live, “everyone” (with a brain) knows not to go to frat parties because of this type of nonsense. So please don’t be surprised by a certain amount of snark in some of the replies: people who are stupid enough to go to frat parties do seem to “ask for” what they get.

          I don’t know how to put it more succinctly without being offensive.

        • Barry_D

          “Terrifying thought that these pigs will some day be husbands to someone’s – possibly your – sister, cousin, female friends. ”

          These are well-connected frat boys. They’ll be *bosses* to your wife, daughter, sister, etc.

          Maybe not these particular ones, because of bad luck, but the same guys from the next house over, with slightly different greek letters.

      • smaktcat

        they do not seem to even regard women as human let alone equal. Send ’em to jail as sexual predators and see how they like their own medicine.

    • WordsofWisdom

      Maybe these boys should get precisely that lesson in prison.

    • Logan Hartanian

      His indignant reaction indicates that his sense of normal has been violated. But it makes you stop and think, what do you do with a man, who believes pregnancy is all the woman’s fault? Well.. you take his money! And now in this case, what do you do with a man whose trust in personal/sexual matters is simply too volatile for today’s sense of protection of the individual?…Well.. you take his money! Having sex is natural, but publishing it to others is not. The only equivalent penalty to having the girls exposed on the internet would be to expose the boys, but short of the short ones, they might be proud of that. So display them as sex offenders..the whole lot.. on the internet, by virtue of membership to the frat. But do explain in a small paragraph on the Sheriff’s site, that the cops could only prove that the frat itself, posted the pictures to the web. See how corporate America considers that, on their resumes.

    • spicynujac

      If one is concerned about privacy, it is in one’s best interest to not go to a strangers house, consume blackout-level quantities of alcohol, and not have a plan of returning home (ie Designated Driver, etc.). It’s not unreasonable for someone who acts in such a manner to have their photograph taken.

      What is more wrong, someone drinking themselves silly to the point of losing consciousness in a strange place, or someone who merely documents the fact that it happened?

  • Nights of Knee

    You know, these entitled little pukes who thought it funny to post nude photos of passed-out girls might want to think about what a pissed-off victim’s father might just decide to do about it. One day we might hear of a few frat brats who got the ever-lovin’ crap beaten out of them…just because taking those photos ain’t free. We can dream, can’t we?

  • WashieWash

    I can only hope that this kid looks back on this interview when he’s a parent in 15 years and feels shame.

    • JA JA

      scary thought, him reproducing.

  • Christina

    At this point the only thing that members of KDR can do is apologize. It’s completely heinous that this student tried to justify the alleged acts. He would have done better for his fraternity by keeping his mouth shut.

  • Random

    Seems like it was a good idea to agree to the interview. – Bob Durst

  • JA JA

    good god I hate frats/soros

  • labradog

    This fraternity punk needs a good beatdown – as do, apparently, most of his brothers.
    And probably, most social fraternities need it, too.
    A frat house “Race for the Cure” or a Christmas charity project make insufficient justification for the waste of skin that most social frats make of their members.

    And this isn’t new. Frat boys were mostly jerks 40 years ago, too.

  • andy

    How did this imbecile even get into school?

    • Man

      Getting into PSU straight out of high school is hard.
      It’s easy if you transfer from a branch campus.
      And there’s 50 branch campuses. The requirements are “Did you graduate high school? Welcome to PSU-Abington!”

      I did a post-bacc Premed program at Penn. There were 3 PSU kids when we started. One was real obnoxous, always citing Thon and PSU and PSU’s academic rankings, etc. I remember one day he said “We’re ranked #1 school to find corporate workers!” and someone said “I wouldn’t brag about that” lol.

      None of them made it through organic chem. I assume they failed out.

  • Joey_33

    All that self-justification, while simultaneously decrying society’s declining moral standards. Unbelievable – kid’s got a good future in politics ahead of him.

    • SufferinSuccotash,Entitled

      Pennsylvania’s next Governor!

  • Seriouslytho

    I think the most disturbing part about this interview is that it is clear from the way this kid talks and the words he uses that he actually thinks he’s smart. And he is just a complete, complete idiot.

  • Tyler Feldmann

    KappaHD

  • Al O

    Reason #700,002 for finally getting rid of frats, and the entire Greek system, once and for all.

  • Brendan A. MacWade

    Shut all the Greeks down. They should have gone the way of the wiig party. Let organic social clubs take their place. But shut the Greeks down.

    • Archiduchesse

      When I first went to college back in the stone age, I saw that there was a Greek affairs society (or something like that) on the list of clubs at the university. I thought, “Oh, wow, there are so many Greek American students here that they formed their own club! Good for them.”

      So yeah, agree, but also for the sake of the students of Greek descent having their heritage tarnished.

      • Jzipps

        Cool story

  • Disgusted

    This is disgusting! There is not one ounce of remorse or concern for those who were victimized by these creeps. Please find a way to prosecute the guilty parties. This horrid behavior needs to stop now.

  • freemdoom

    “Philly Mag: Did you post any of the photos?

    KDR member: No, no, absolutely not. I’m a good guy.”

    So in other words, the people who did this are bad people. Seems like they got what they deserved. Actually, so far they’ve gotten off easy.

  • R. Willson

    So I’m definitely not saying that what KDR was good at all. It was gross and really freakin’ stupid. Contrary to what a lot of people thing/say, you have to be half way competent to get in and stay in, but some of these boys are seriously lacking some common sense. What most of (because let’s be real here there likely were some members that didn’t know/didn’t have anything to do with it) these guys did was heinous and they deserve to be further investigated and have applicable laws enforced upon them.

    However, one thing I disliked about this article was the amount of ellipses. I understand that some “light” editing occasionally needs to be done to clarify pronouns and stuff, but this girl like spliced together sentences. I really have no idea what was taken out of the quote and which quotes were taken out of context. I understand the background of what happened, but it almost feels like I can’t trust the edited version.

    Yeah, I know this kid proverbially hung himself and then just kept going. That’s evident by the quotes that weren’t manipulated. But like this one: “Yeah, like you get a Snapchat, and people send like raunchy Snapchats all the time. … It’s not a malicious type of thing … Everybody’s … saying, “Oh, there’s pictures of passed-out girls,” and making it seem out to be such a malicious thing.” So many ellipses. I just think that it’s poor writing, and poor journalism.

  • Dan18018

    I’m not convinced that this interview wasn’t done by someone trying to boost the web traffic of totalfratmove.com. There are virtually no details present in this interview that weren’t already disclosed in any of the reports on this incident out there. Also why Philly magazine, why not the NYtimes or the Washington post, both of which have done stories on this incident?

  • PennStateAlum

    I tried so many times to eloquently write an intelligent response to this but all I can muster is this kid is an idiot.

  • rk29

    So if we learned anything from the incident with UVA, it is that if a source isn’t willing to go on record, they really might not exist. So who was this person – when were they in the fraternity, etc? None of that is known or documented here and Philly Mag certainly isn’t Rolling Stone, so this really might just be Nancy Grace style click-bait.

    • CJAS

      The article says “An ex-fraternity member first told authorities about the
      Facebook pages.” But don’t let that curb your misogyny.

      • rk29

        Wow – don’t let reading comprehension stand in the way of your fake outrage and name calling their Nancy Grace.

        I never said what this fraternity is alleged to have done, is remotely ok – but “An ex-fraternity member” is an un-named source. What years was he there, what was his role, was he part of the group, hold an office, etc – they provide nothing, so what is to say they actually even talked to this person and that this article isn’t completely made up – that is the point.

        This is what we saw with Rolling Stone and UVA and from Brian Williams to Bill O’Reilly- so there certainly is no shortage of precedent in journalists with made-up stories,

        This fraternity being guilty of what they stand accused and this article being false and garbage – those aren’t mutually exclusive. I know this kind of complexity is tough for you to wrap your head around, so perhaps it is best you go back to coloring.

        • CJAS

          The investigation was prompted by evidence provided by a man, yet women were the sole focus of your comments.

          And then there’s this: “Wow – don’t let reading comprehension stand in the way of your fake outrage and name calling their Nancy Grace.”

          • rk29

            OK what are you talking about – you know your argument is weak when you have to make up a fake premise to justify an argument. I said nothing about women in my comments at all. UVA and Rolling Stone was an institutional failure and Nancy Grace? Really? You are arguing the validity or merit in Nancy Grace?

            Nothing in my post was remotely related to any male or female dynamic. It was about the tangibility of this article, and this article has none. The reality remains that this article is based on a source, that has no reference and they do nothing to establish that sources credibility, similar to Rolling Stone. That doesn’t mean that what KDR did is remotely ok – those things aren’t mutually exclusive – if you can fathom that. And your fake outrage is pretty Nancy Grace-ish, not letting facts get in the way your point.

            Keep going to a premise and point I didn’t make because your argument is absent logic.

          • CJAS

            “…if we learned anything from the incident with UVA, it is that if a source isn’t willing to go on record, they really might not exist” and “…this really might just be Nancy Grace style click-bait.

            But you said nothing about gender.

          • rk29

            Where do you read gender? Whether it is male or female, if you aren’t going on record, then the story or individual might not exist. A made-up story is a made-up story, and UVA was a made-up story. The source wasn’t credible and those off-the record sources, weren’t accurate.

            This story cites no credible source and has no corroboration – the featured comment is that whoever tries to identify the source will be banned, that isn’t a good indicator. So it very well may not be true and this source for this story, there is no evidence they exist, no background, nothing. So while someone like Nancy Grace will run with Duke, UVA, etc – she doesn’t let facts get in the way of her outrage.

            And no, none of this has to do with gender – nice try though. The fact that a story or individual can’t be criticized based on their own merit without gender coming in is laughable, I wouldn’t criticize a source or Nancy Grace because they are a woman any more than Brian Williams or Bill O’Reilly, because they are men. They are liars and/or fear-mongers and lack journalistic credibility, that is the point.,

          • CJAS

            This post is an interview conducted with someone involved directly or indirectly in an ongoing police investigation. It references previous reporting on the subject (and provides a link to it).

            The examples you chose (UVa complainant, Nancy Grace) have a gender.

          • rk29

            We found a member of Kappa Delta Rho who was willing to talk anonymously”

            Can you tell me if there is any other support here that you read? If they were involved in the investigation, you do realize there would be a gag order right? And them doing anything like this, especially this, no lawyer or even half wit of a parent would allow this kid to make such idiotic statements. They would at the least ensure it was off the record, in which case, it wouldn’t be reported on, but used to help generate leads or further questions for a journalist.

            The previous reporting is fine, but this isn’t. Those two things, are not mutually exclusive, other reporting can be solid and this can be junk, which it is.

            This article basically says they talked to “some dude” who was in the fraternity- that is the point. How did this come to constitute a reliable source that an entire story is based on? This wasn’t about what happened or reporting on alleged events, this story is about someone who appears nothing but self-righteous and entitled, as they defend what are likely criminal actions, all the while, there is no credible sourcing. That isn’t journalism, this is a brand of take-down piece, but it is anonymous – it is an article meant to generate clicks and let people feel angry and that they are better. This is what Nancy Grace does, rather than actually inform the public about a crime.

            This was an interview with someone who is alleged to be a former member of KDR and is defending their actions. It doesn’t indicate when they were a member, years, involvement, did they live in house, can they describe any key elements that would establish their credibility and involvement? So what is the story?

            Establishing credibility of a source, even unnamed with some additional info, is a pretty key element in any story. That was what happened with UVA and Rolling Stone. This writer previously had done solid pieces. But in that article, while there was a host of data points and federal investigation, they focused on a sensational story based on anonymous eye-witness accounts that were never corroborated and were in total error. A simple run through facebook or twitter, in the digital age would tell you if there was even a party that night, (there wasn’t), and who other non-members in attendance were (wasn’t done).

            There was plenty of real tangible evidence to establish that UVA had a sexual assault issue without a salacious piece. Just like here, there is plenty of evidence to establish that there is a crime and a story, without basically what amounts to making a story up to get clicks? That doesn’t mean this is a failure of a female, it was a failure of a female journalist and a male editor for that matter, but keep making this about sex.

  • justamom

    So, NOT ONE of these 144 people was honorable enough to say – this is wrong – pathetic!

    • 370HSSV 0773H

      Can you imagine the kind of husband and father they would be?

  • HNS

    He either got into pennstate with money or sports because he really isn’t sounding very smart right now.. Sickening

    • Mystic_Scorpio

      Penn State really isn’t that hard to get into hon.

  • Matutina

    What an idiot!!!
    It is like listening to a 4th grader!

    • stanofphilly

      That’s an insult to 4th graders everywhere–they make more sense than this fool.

  • Natalie S.

    I am questioning a bit of the journalistic integrity of this story/post. I understand the person wanted to be anonymous, but in using an anonymous source, you have the journalistic duty to describe teh source to readers and also to confirm their identity. The story did not note how Philly Mag confirmed that he is actually a member. Additionally, if you hosted the interview, why would you need to paraphrase your questions. If you recorded the interview, you would have the transcript to quote. If you didn’t you should ahve noted that the the source’s comments are also not quoted and have been edited. This is not very good journalism. You might want to review the SPJ code of ethics and basic college journalism bet practices.

    • Mystic_Scorpio

      (In an email to Vox, she said she “verified through a multi-step process that he is a student at Penn State, a member of KDR, and … the person he said he was.”)

      http://www.vox.com/2015/3/18/8253749/penn-state-kappa-delta-rho

      • Natalie S.

        Thanks. That really should have been included in this article. I do still question why they edited the questions. That does not instill trust in credibility of the information. I want to know what they edited and why they couldn’t just include the questions and responses as shared. It’s not like they were going for brevity in the article.

        • derp

          Most print interview questions are presented paraphrased. A lot of them are usually manipulated even further or not presented at all. This is usually done to make answers more clear. Perhaps more importantly is that this [misguided] person’s answer’s could possibly be made worse by a rephrasing of a question. I’m assuming you’re getting cranky about question phrasing because this dude came out sounding like such an imbecile. Might want to take that up with him.

          • derp

            *answers
            *couldn’t possibly
            MY B

          • Natalie S.

            Actually I’m not cranky about that (or at all actually, just pointing out an ethical issue). In fact, they didn’t say they edited the answers (I’m sure they do leave out stuff so its not so long or hard to read), but they noted they “paraphrased” their questions, not the answers. That’s just weird. This guy would have likely looked like an idiot no matter what the questions were. I just think as a journalist, if you want to create credibility you should do things to ensure your reader you are being as honest as possible and attempting to seek the truth. With many of the issues of journalists using anonymous sources recently, you would think they would be more intentional about sharing how they verified an identity and be clear in what they were asking. I have a background in journalism and communication and these kind of practices erk me a bit.

          • derp

            I said paraphrased the questions .. this is completely normal. I’ve had a career as a journalist for 6 years, but credibility aside, this interview’s issue is clearly NOT the questions. No question could be paraphrased enough to make this man’s response any less clear.

          • slickpoetry

            the author probably had to edit out “Oh? so that’s really what you want to say?” from every question asked.

  • Mystic_Scorpio

    This fool gives credence to the argument that frats need to be shutdown and/or pushed off campus. Based on all the negative press with greek life, Racism, sexual assault, deaths, illegal hazing, it’s clear these kids are totally out of control. The worst part is none of them see a dàmn thing wrong with their actions until they get caught, and in this case even when they get caught they are trying to blame everyone else. I hope this fools go to prison at Up State University where they can get thoroughly abused and exploited.

  • Jake Sanford

    The young man’s whole point
    was that the media takes things like this, generalizes, and makes out everyone
    involved in an organization(s) to be the perps. Nothing controversial about
    that.

  • 370HSSV 0773H

    Sounds like any moron can get into Penn State.

  • Jake Smith

    I think that this student makes a somewhat valid point. While he views the posts as being “non criminal” (which they are in fact criminal), I see where he is coming from. Many of you parents are posting on here thinking that your kids would never do anything like this. Sure, probably some of you are right, but at the same token, some of you are wrong, and if YOUR kid doesn’t do this, I’m sure one of his friends (who you think is a great kid) does. This doesn’t necessarily mean that these kids are bad kids either. A lot of them are great kids, who make some dumb mistakes. At the same time, all of you adults who were in college before social media was prevalent, have no idea what it was like. You may deny that you wouldn’t have done something this immoral or unethical, but I’m pretty confident that some of you would have. Do I think posting nude pictures of girls without their consent is shameful? Of course! Are the kids dumb for posting pictures of drugs? YES! But it does not mean that they are awful people and should be punished for the rest of their lives for it. I think that people need to do a better job of addressing issues like these, and explain how it’s immoral, unethical, and for the most part illegal. At the same token, the media is the one being malicious here. They see the opportunity to expose and bring shame to some young men who made a couple of mistakes. The intentions of their reports are NOT for good, but rather to make a profit. So they make a profit at the expense of misguided young men, and the women who exposed and not respected properly. It’s SICK! The media should find other stories to report on, especially when stuff like this happens EVERYDAY, all across the country. These guys were just the extremely unlucky ones who got caught. Fraternities also have a reputation (especially at non HBCU schools) of being white males, from the middle class and above. The media LOVES to expose white males anytime they make a mistake. Overall, yes the fraternity should be punished (and not just a slap on the wrist) but the media should understand that these guys could be their sons, brothers, of friends! People in college today make dumb mistakes like this all the time, and while it should be punished and not ignored, bringing in the eyes of the nation (to make money) is merely exploitation of the misguided millennials that many of you have raised and influenced growing up. Also, for the kid who was interviewed, claiming “no, I’m a good person” makes him just at sick as the media. He could have said no, but some of those guys are good people too, they just made some mistakes, and in a time of need, support, and guidance, selling them out is not what a “brother” should do.

    • 370HSSV 0773H

      You keep contradicting yourself – just like the guy in the article. Are you the same person?

      • Jake Smith

        where’s my contradiction?

        • 370HSSV 0773H

          Why don’t you just admit you’re the same person?

          • Jake Smith

            Hah, I’m honestly not. Funny how you really think you’re smart, and it’s evident that your not. If you wanna message or email me I’ll tell you who I am. I admit that the person interviewed is wrong on a number of things. Here you go again with your worthless assumptions

  • Jake Smith

    Also, yes I feel bad for the girls who were exploited and mistreated. But at the same time, why has no one pointed out that girls need to maybe be a little smarter and not get wasted and pass out at a Fraternity. Girls claim all for equality (which I understand and respect), but people need to be responsible, and smart, both men and women.

    • 370HSSV 0773H

      Blame the victims? Just because a girl drinks too much and passes out doesn’t make it her fault if a guy rapes her or takes advantage of her in some way.

      And you’re saying that girls should never trust guys in fraternities? They should never party or drink with them because they can’t be trusted and are most likely sexual predators? Is it too much for a girl to think that if she did pass out at a party, a guy attending Penn State would help her instead of take advantage of her?

      • Jake Smith

        Many of the guys do help them– but there are the scumbags who don’t, and rather take advantage. And did I say they should never party or drink? Of course not, because I’m a college student myself and want girls at the parties I’m at. But should the girls ( and guys) drink to the point of passing out? NO! They should be responsible. Never once did I justify the actions of those who take advantage, but I do think the girls should be more responsible, and smarter. Defending them, and giving them the idea that they can pass out in a random guys house is where the problem lies. Welcome to the world, people are scumbags and take advantage…. Be smart and responsible and don’t let those things happen to you.

        • 370HSSV 0773H

          A lot of girls get drugged at parties, it’s not always because they drank too much. I’m sure you’ll blame them for allowing themselves to get drugged.

          • Jake Smith

            There you go again saying things I’ve never said. I know how it works, I’m in college (unlike you). Everyone knows which Frats have used Date rape drugs in their drinks. Yes, that part is messed up, and not the girls fault, but look at the statistics before you make ridiculous comments from an anonymous account, a large portion of intoxicated sexual assault take place from alcohol solely…. Date rape drugs and other drugs were not used. So no, not “a lot of girls get drugged at parties) in fact, a small minority does (check statistics… and also attend college).

          • C Colwell

            If you passed out at a party would you have to worry about getting raped? Why not? The “alcohol causes rape” thing seems to only affect girls! Why is that do you think?

          • Jake Smith

            “Why not?” Answering the question you asked me…? I know a guy who was taken advantage of sexually by another guy when he was passed out, and I’ve heard at my college of women doing it to men… Is is less common? YES! But it happens, so maybe you should think wholesomely. I think that a majority of the time it’s a man acting on a women because men usually initiate things like that, and sometimes, women give their consent, and then pass out and don’t remember (as they were blacked out).. I am friends with a girl who this happened to at PSU, and as a testament to her as a person, she didn’t go and call it sexual assault, because she remembers willingly pursuing the guy, but not giving consent for what they did (and they guy was very intoxicated as well). If you want to sit around and think that girls shouldn’t be responsible for themselves at all, then you should reevaluate things.

          • KEL

            Why is it that you feel so superior? It’s really odd. Being an undergrad means that you’ve literally accomplished nothing yet..you do understand that, right? You are going to have a really difficult time in the real world. Enjoy the Natty lite, bro.

          • Jake Smith

            Did I ever mention any feeling of superiority? Because you seem to feel pretty superior yourself. I will now though. I probably have a lot more going for myself than you. I’m not here to take individual shots at people who haven’t bothered me (unlike you). Since I made a good chunk of change on an app I invented, I’m not drinkin Natty Light. I’ll leave it at that.

          • derpdederp

            Penn State is a safety school for anyone with half a brain, bro. Lols.

          • Jake Smith

            Hah, I don’t go to PSU, “Lols” never said I did. But I know some smart kids who do, who happen to be in Frats there. I go to Amherst for the record.

          • Jake Smith

            Never did I say I go to PSU. “Lols” I know a lot of smart people who go there though, and who are in Frats. I go to Amherst, I like to think I have “half a brain.”

          • Jake Smith

            also accomplishments aren’t solely measured by the level of education you’ve earned, and at that, odds are I’m attending a better school than you attended.

          • KEL

            Drexel, and I’m an IT recruiter. I deal with whiny brats like you daily.

          • Jake Smith

            So I was right, but Drexel’s a good school. Completely forgot you know me though. I’ll leave the personal attacks to you. Maybe it will make you feel good about yourself.

      • Randis730

        Why is it ANYONE’S job to take care of someone who chooses to drink themselves to blacking out?!?!?! Women, and men, need to take ownership and responsibility! I am a woman, I went to a “party school” and I managed graduate without blacking out and/or putting myself in compromising positions. You go to college to get an education. And no one should have to mother anyone who chooses to act as the girls do.

        • CJAS

          It’s not. It’s your job to not exploit them.

    • Randis730

      I completely agree. People need to start using their brains and stop finding excuses for their behavior. These women aren’t victims of a sexual crime, they are victims of their own choices

      • CJAS

        The law begs to differ.

  • Caity

    I really think it’s time for us to reevaluate whether or not social Greek fraternities and sororities should have a place on American campuses in the future. I’m sure there are plenty of individuals within the Greek system and particular chapters at universities that would never condone this sort of behavior, but the fact of the matter is that the Greek system has created a culture that encourages or turns a blind eye to this sort of behavior. This young man’s attitude, as well as the response to other Greek scandals in recent news, is a testament to that fact.
    I’m a student on a college campus where Greek life is at the very center of social life on campus, but even my campus has had problems with some of it’s Greek organizations and I truly feel that they generally cause more harm than good.

    • Sororitygrl

      Cause more harm than good? I feel as though unless you have been involved in greek life, you do not get to say these accusations. What happens within a chapter stays with that chapter and other organizations should not get a bad stereotype just because of their screw up. By the time I graduate, I will have logged in over 1000 hours of community service I have completed with my sisters by my side. Service hours that go towards helping kids with cancer, making blankets by hand for homeless people, working with down syndrome children. These are all things I would have probably never gotten involved in (and loved) if not for greek life. I know people who were truly struggling with life, joined greek life, and found their family who supported and guided them to happiness. So please, do not point fingers at greek life, because I have witnessed greek life doing amazing things for people. Instead of pointing fingers at all of greek life, we should be pointing fingers at the bigger issue which is criminal invasion of privacy and immorally degrading women. We should be moving this situation in a positive direction and spreading awareness to make sure this mistake is not made again. Instead of pointing fingers at greek life, we should be focusing on supporting victims of KDR’s disturbing actions and supporting people to speak up and have a voice about degradation of women.

      • Caity

        I’m speaking AS a person who has been involved. I’m sensitive to the fact that there are a great many good things that come from Greek organizations. But there’s something more important here that’s worth discussing.
        Your comment about “what happens within a chapter stays with that chapter” is part of the overall problem. There is a culture created within each individual chapter that is either as good or as bad as their members make it but even you can’t say that the actions of an individual chapter are limited to that community, that school, and that chapter. Take the recent scandal at OU, that became a national issue when the national SAE became involved. At my school we have had a similar problem. I’m not speaking in terms of stereotypes, I’m saying that across the board chapters are subject to whatever culture has been established and, regrettably, there has been ample opportunity for a lot of bad bad things.
        My school, for example, attracts a lot of wealth and the sororities on our campus are a reflection of that. The way things are here, you simply DO NOT get into a sorority without a significant amount of money. It’s not right, but that’s what happens. I’m sure you have experienced certain groups that are very harsh about body type and only choose whoever is “hottest”. That is also very wrong, but it happens. Again, I reiterate that not all Greek life participants and not all Greek life chapters do this. But I have seen it, firsthand, and there is significant evidence of it’s existence across the nation. The system can be deeply flawed and things like this Penn State issue are the result.
        I’ve thought a lot about my feelings on this issue and, as I mentioned earlier, I do acknowledge that there are many good things in Greek life (like philanthropy). But all of these benefits are things that could still exist without panhellenic organizations. People would still make friends, people could still volunteer their time, and people could still be involved on their campus. Those things don’t go away just because greek life does. Without these frat/sorority cultures, actions like those at Penn State would be limited to individuals and would never have a chance to be encouraged or tied in with an organization. This incident, the nature of it, and the attitude of this young man perfectly illustrate a point that frat culture attempts to justify this kind of behavior, or provides a group that can choose to turn a blind eye. Like it or not, Greek life is inherently exclusionary. It simply is by virtue of it being an organization and some campuses take that to the point of detriment.
        I know that not all that are involved in Greek life are guilty, but I do believe with all my heart that the way Greek organizations are structured, socially, provides a hot bed for these kinds of things to happen. The crime itself is bad enough, to have a large group of people attempting to defend/conceal it is far worse.
        And never doubt my sympathy for the victims. Ever. These women were victims of a group of people that saw no reason to respect or protect them. It is not ENOUGH to simply raise awareness. In this case, they already messed up once and simply did it again. To prevent things like this, we have to cut off the head of the problem and the best way that we can support these women is to remove any platform where a group of people can make a mockery of their bodies and belittle them as human beings. In my opinion, that starts with the dismantling of Greek organizations on college campuses. It will be a loss for some and I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but there’s nothing stopping any individual from volunteering or being involved just because it wouldn’t come with Greek letters.

        • SororityGrl

          Let me be clear, when I say “what happened with that chapter should stay in the chapter” I am talking about how the individuals in one greek organization act does not define all of greek life. I am sorry you have a bad experience with greek life, but greek life is different at every school. KDR at PENN STATE should be held accountable for these things they have done, OTHER KDR chapters should not suffer, other greek organizations shouldn’t have to suffer from the choices that KDR at Penn State and fraternities like SAE have made. Racism still exists in our country. Degradation of women still exists in our country-whether greek organizations exist or not. Heavy drinking on college campuses will still occur without greek life. In comparison, I do not agree with some of the beliefs and actions of certain extremist churches, but does that mean I think we should shut down all churches? No. Every churches/religions has/have different beliefs and values just like different sororities and fraternities at different schools have different values and beliefs. The important issue is that these issues like racism and degradation of women still occur in this country and we should be making choices to help move these problems in a more positive direction, whether you like greek life or not.

          • Caity

            I did not misunderstand your meaning and I also acknowledged that these actions are not representative of all the many chapters in greek organizations. As I’ve mentioned previously, I recognize the benefits that greek organizations do contribute, but that doesn’t cancel out the fact that several chapters on several campuses have these sorts of incidents. I’m of the opinion that it is no longer enough to just deal with the problem chapters, because greek culture is now so entangled with these sorts of issues.
            I also realize that issues of racism and sexism and other irresponsible behaviors are not exclusive to greek organizations, but statistically greek students are the most heavily effected and involved. I’m glad you made your comment with respect to churches, as that perfectly frames the point I’m trying to make. Universities do not endorse a church. Churches are totally private organizations and do not have the endorsement of large state institutions. I recognize that racism and sexism can still exist outside of greek organizations and I understand that groups of students could still privately meet and form organizations of their own, but those organizations would not be directly affiliated with the university and, as a result, would be subject to local law enforcement.
            I firmly maintain that universities should disentangle themselves from the panhellenic system, for this would be a step towards dealing with these kinds of problems. Let those individuals who participate in this kind of behavior be dealt with by local law enforcement and remove that platform that seeks to protect them (greek chapters).

      • stanofphilly

        Let’s be honest–it’s not the sororities half of the Greek system that are doing the idiotic stuff.

        • Jake Smith

          Sororities aren’t completely innocent. While they are not the main cause of the problems with Greek life, they do contribute.

      • Just’liloleme

        Sororitygirl, I am a woman who is an alumna member of a social sorority, having been a collegiate member some 15-20 years ago, and I would encourage you to re-read your response and see which of the many stereotypes of sorority women you have just condoned.

      • RLK2

        Therefore, as women in the Greek system, you should be more disturbed about this than anyone else to a certain degree, and actually work against this rather than accepting the behavior of your male counter parts who seem to show no respect towards you behind your back. Touting charitable doings though admirable, does not excuse racist, homophobic, and misogynist behavior. How many minorities and LGBT people are in your sorority for example? I would suspect zero to none. Have any of you even reached out to others different from you? Or made friends, etc? That is where real empathy and morality begin.

    • Archiduchesse

      Frat alums are huge donors to universities. Administrations generally have zero incentive to curb this sort of behavior because donors turn off the cash flow if their younger “brothers” are told they can’t have fun by sexually harassing/assaulting women and singing racist songs.

    • Just’liloleme

      I think the fact that Greek organizations have been around for hundreds of years and have enhanced the lives of millions of students is the first consideration. The organizations are not the problem–the problem is the individuals who are the current members–and ultimately the people who raised them. We have a generation of narcissists now attending college and a generation of parents who encourage and enable their behavior.

      • Caity

        I see your point. But I’m of the opinion that these generations of narcissists have effectively ruined the greek system. The members are a reflection of the organization, they make up the organization, and the system has gotten to a point that these kinds of people are the majority. I don’t think universities should be affiliated with greek organizations anymore, as this is what those organizations have become. It is possible for students to have social, philanthropic, and campus involvement without the presence of greek organizations. So, I think that universities should take the platform away from those who would abuse it, as much as a loss as it may be to those who don’t.

        • derp

          You people saw Animal House, right? A single generation doesn’t have a unique idea that suddenly ruins it for everyone. This kind of mentality can only be bread.

          The real issues is the party culture in these schools, and beyond that, the endemic misogyny and disrespect and ACCEPTED behaviors at schools like these. The fact alone that all of us understand what a “Party School” vs any other kind of school is illuminated this.

    • Jake Smith

      Agreed, but people can form non-national Frats off campus. Whether you call is a “Frat” or not, the same type of stuff will happen.

      • Caity

        I agree that there is no guaranteed way of 100% preventing these kinds of things. However, I think it’s a huge step forward to disentangle the university from these incidents. Remove social greek organizations from under the cover of universities. That is the move that will ultimately make our schools safer. Without university affiliation, social greek organizations would most likely have lower numbers of members, would not have the potential politics that come with alumni donations to the university, and any legal action that may befall an organization would be from local law enforcement, not university police (which are notoriously bad with handling these sorts of situations).

  • Stacy

    Why was this fool given a voice? And an anonymous one, at that?

  • 370HSSV 0773H

    So basically this idiot thinks that it’s ok to break the law in private, as long as it doesn’t get out to the public. And if it does get out, then it’s the person’s fault that let it get out. And since other people break the law in private, then it’s ok.

    • Archiduchesse

      It’s the mentality of a gang: the only person at fault is the snitch. Unfortunately, lots of organizations are run on that principle.

    • NepotismIsDomesticTerrorism

      “So basically this idiot thinks that it’s ok to break the law in private, as long as it doesn’t get out to the public.”
      It’s called the Paterno-Sandusky Way.
      So long as the perpetrators in question win football games.

  • http://www.phillymag.com/ Philadelphia Magazine

    Fair warning: Any attempts to identify our source will be deleted, and the user(s) involved will be banned. — Tim Haas, Digital Editorial Director

  • Hallux

    It’s okay because… THON!

  • Mike

    This kid is a complete idiot! I am a KDR brother, 50 years old and from a different chapter! The Penn State KDR chapter and house needs shut down for good! The behavior of the PSU chapter is an embarrassment to Nationals!

    • Matt Filler

      Well said, bro. There are few if any other KDR chapters at party schools like PSU, KDR was founded to go against this sort of thing. As a Beta alum, I think Beta’s current leader has it right on the chapter’s web site when he states under “What he likes about KDR” as “It’s severe shortage of meatheaded fratiness”. That is why I joined 40 years ago, and I think it typifies most chapters. It’s now more explicit in the Precepts of KDR: “Serve as my brothers’ keeper, holding them accountable for their actions as they hold me accountable for mine”. This is now part of the guidance on how to lead an Honorable life, yet this kid’s “everyone does it” and “it’s minor” and the active’s re-institution of the page show complete ignorance or disregard of these concepts. Instead, this chapter seems to drive out honorable brothers, such as the one that turned them in, apparently. I hope the national and the company it hired last year to educate members can find a way to assure the actives at all chapters, and especially at any reactivated Zeta chapter, understand that they are expected to take the motto and precepts seriously. The problem is that local alumni tend to be involved in reconstituting local chapters, and this was always a chapter that seemed to emulate other party fraternities.

  • Aubrey

    I want to take a red pen to all of his comments. Someone with that poor of grammar doesn’t deserve to be in college, let alone stay in one after illegal behavior.

    • Hallux

      How about “someone with grammar that poor”?

      • Aubrey

        Both are grammatically correct

  • DJEchoes

    No idea why anyone in 2015 would consider joining a frat. “But it’s a sense of community! You can network with alumnis!” Literally every benefit they tout can be achieved by being a decent person to others. And you don’t have to pay or dip your scrotum in baked beans.

    • Mark

      It was the most affordable living situation on campus when I was in school

  • JGC

    Caitlin Flanagan wrote an in-depth article in the Atlantic about fraternity violence about a year ago. These guys at KDR can expect the IFC and the national fraternity organization to isolate them due to insurance concerns. They will collect statements and information from the brothers, and then use their statements to find the violations that will exclude the accused from coverage under the fraternity policy. Their cases will go to civil court eventually, and it will be their parents who will be sued for damages under their homeowner’s policies. The parents, who were probably once proud of the news that their children were accepted and pledged to a fraternity, are about to find out that they are now on the hook for millions in damages. Better believe they didn’t realize they had signed up for taking out a second mortgage on the family home to pay for a lawyer when their son became a member of Kappa Delta Rho.

    The women who were sexually assaulted have a great case for damages, if they can come forward. There are possible violations to the Clery Act (see the Clery Center for Security on Campus http://clerycenter.org ); also a law recently passed in Pennsylvania a few months ago that make it a criminal act to publically post these sort of photographs without the permission of the subject; there is a chance that one of the females could have been under age 18, which would have other harsh criminal penalties attached; there have also been cases where pornographic photos taken of young victims and viewed by others have been judged to not be a “victimless” crime, and the people that looked at the images (not just the people that staged and posted the photographs, but the ones who sought out to view the pornographic photographs) have been held accountable for monetary damages. Victims can find out more about representation through http://www.schoolviolencelaw.com , because this was sexual assault.

  • Anonymous SororityGirl

    being a sorority girl at Penn State, my common place to hang out is frat land. It is disturbing how close to home this occurrence hits for me. I am not sorry to admit I have gotten a little too drunk at a fraternity. I have lost a little bit of my dignity, I have witnessed a lot of dignity being lost in frat land. I am not afraid to admit one of these victims could have easily been one of my friends. Currently, it is Women Empowerment Week. The most disturbing part of this whole deal is the ignorance of this “boy”. Yes, I said boy, not man- believing that this fraternity has done nothing wrong to deserve this public attention. Yes, people deserve to be punished for this. Yes, you deserve a bad reputation. It is incredibly disturbing how ignorant you are to how degrading this is to women. What about the victims reputations? ….Hell, once somethings on the internet, they say it is there forever. What about the women’s privacy when they probably needed help or taken home. These victims are somebody’s’ daughter, somebody’s sister. How is this morally right in any way? It is not. It is a complete invasion of privacy and equal rights for women. I personally hope KDR is not allowed back at Penn State, and I do not care if that is harsh. This occurrence has proven that we still live in a country where degradation of women is still very much alive and thriving. Take down your hypocritical “no trespassing” sign KDR, you have trespassed into the privacy of college women without their consent and offended women all over the country, so yeah, it’s a big deal.

    • dontthinktwiceitsalright

      well said!

  • hellslittlestangel

    “Everybody does it.” The go-to excuse of the pathologically criminal.

  • splicernyc

    It’s a loaded question to ask anyone, “Do you think its funny?” Funny is funny. It may not be appropriate, it may be offensive to some people, but funny is funny.

  • stanofphilly

    He says, “the entire world and all of society would do better to return to higher standards of morality, of moral and ethical conduct,”–but people shouldn’t be singled out for punishment for lapses like this, or at least not these people. Yeah, talk about pretzel logic there!

  • Robert Talbet

    Holly. rarely do you see a journalist have the courage to simply get out of the way and let their subject hang themselves. I am sure you were dying to inject yourself. Instead, you just let him spew his ridiculous. Terrific job. Thanks for letting us see him for who he is. Sometimes great journalism comes in nuanced, unexpected ways!

  • Just’liloleme

    This is incredibly sad. I’m an alumna of a sorority, have been a chapter advisor and a member of the regional advising team–and I am absolutely disgusted by the reasoning this member presented as to why this is not so bad. I think his mother might be interested to know why this is okay (because, of course, it’s been happening since the Salem witch hunts), particularly if she also has a daughter.

  • waves24

    This guy is the worst.

  • Lizard Boy

    Such a nice young man.

  • Chelle

    This Frat guy is a moron. If he truly believed the bullshit spewing out of his mouth was right and a legitimate argument he would not have remained anonymous. Disgusting excuse for a human being. They all are. What if it were their sister, cousin, mother, aunt or daughter?! Disgusting…I hope they are all properly charged.

  • whatstheworldcomingtoo

    umm… hate to break it to the kid but invasion of privacy (and posting those pics) is a CRIMINAL offense (misdemeanor or not). Should they have done it NO. is the media blowing out of proportion? Yeah probably since they usually do.

  • Truth&Justice

    First I want to state I am a Penn State graduate. While I think this is totally wrong, I do agree with some of what this young man stated. In the scheme of what goes on in the world every day, this incident is hardly worth talking about. but the media has made a huge deal of it. Really terrible things are happening every day and this does not fit into that category. The students involved should be expelled and the frat closed down for at least a year. Move on to more important issues.

    • CJAS

      ‘In the scheme of things’ isn’t a legal or moral defense. But, I’m censured for my concern.

    • charles Galtenstein

      So basically dealing drug, and taking pictures of unconscious women is “hardly worth talking about”. Objectifying and degrading women somehow does not seem important enough to you. What a frightening glimpse into the type of mindset that allows this type of thing to go one because its not important “in the scheme of things”.

      • Mark

        Dealing drugs is a separate issue, you dumb authoritarian.

        • charles Galtenstein

          Since we are talking about their facebook page, then actually it is part of the same issue

  • Roxanne

    This is OUR FUTURE? to ALL OF YOU FRAT BRO’s who think all of this is oh so funny… HOW WILL YOU FEEL WHEN ITS YOUR GIRLFRIEND IN THAT PICTURE? OR BETTER YET === YOU WILL BE A PARENT (1) DAY ( MAYBE – IF ONE OF THE VICTIMS IN YOUR “private dirt stash” DON’T HUNT YOU DOWN AND SHOW YOU FAIR PLAY!! HOW WILL YOU FEEL WHEN IT IS YOUR FAMILY???…. how funny is that?… or your MOTHER? is that funny to you too….???/….. guess what… maybe the females need to take some pics of ALL OF YOU??????? How much are you willing to show FOR A LAUGH?…. REMEMBER when your naked ass is showing and you look like an idiot..it was all in fun right? BUNCH OF INCONSIDERATE FRAT BOYS WHO WILL NEVER GROW UP AND BE DECENT HUMAN BEINGS.!!!!!!!!…. show this to your mama if you have any guts and tell her what you have done…. are you proud now?

    • Mark

      If my girlfriend got wasted, stripped for some dudes at a party, then passed out there, she wouldn’t be my girlfriend anymore. My female family members were all raised well so there’s no risk in them misbehaving like this.
      My naked ass is never showing in public.

  • CJAS

    This sounds a bit sociopathic.

  • Elena

    It’s obvious this child has no idea what he’s talking about.

  • Kim W

    If he doesn’t see anything wrong with what the Frat was doing, then….why did he only agree to comment if he could do so anonymously?

    • Mark

      Because he knows that people like you are prejudiced idiots.

  • JayL

    I don’t even know where to start, so I’ll edit myself to the concept of one word: consent. What this foolish man doesn’t seem to grasp is that even if “it wasn’t done maliciously” these women were photographed without their knowledge. They may have consented to acts with the frat brothers, but not to have naked photos taken of themselves and posted on Facebook!! How can he disregard this? It doesn’t matter what he thinks the state of the world is. Wrong is still wrong.

  • Burr Hubbell

    I have a college aged daughter. Just crossed Penn State off her list.

    • lucyhoneychurch

      Sad to tell you this is norm for fraternities in general.

    • Mark

      Why don’t you scratch “drunk stripping” from her list instead?

      • Guest

        Been drinking late again, Mark?
        This wouldn’t protect from the type of behaviors you and your fellow “brothers” engage in. Your lack of ethics and respect for fellow human beings is appalling.

        • Mark

          No, I don’t drink. Please be more specific with your unfounded accusations of my behavior. What do you think I do and what gave you that idea? You know nothing of my ethics. Do you think it’s ethical of you to just make stuff up about other people?

      • Burr Hubbell

        Been drinking late again, Mark?
        This wouldn’t protect her or other women from the type of behaviors you and your fellow “brothers” engage in. Your lack of ethics and respect for fellow human beings is appalling.

  • NepotismIsDomesticTerrorism

    Gotta love the Paterno-Sandusky Mindset that rules Penn State.
    All the football scholarships are back and the bowl ban is history, so let’s roll!

  • WellAdjustedAndroid

    “Nobody’s sitting there like, “Oh … how are we going to victimize these people?” .

    Omg, I can’t. I just can’t.

  • Einelorelei

    Frats are a scourge of campuses in the US.

  • Samantha Elliott

    i have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand- it’s assenine, chauvinistic, and just disgusting. On the other hand- some of his points are valid. There are embarrassing photos of both genders, both genders put themselves in compromising positions where photos were taken, and using snapchat to take compromising photos of yourself should never imply that they stay secret. i was raised to try my very darndest not to put anything in writing (or photo) that i wouldn’t want seen. I’m not saying it never happens, but being “a bunch of college kids” shouldn’t make getting drunk and naked and passing out at a frat house so much more intelligent than taking a picture of it. ESPECIALLY in the culture that we live in where everything gets posted to social media. Both actions are stupid, and both have repercussion. The girls learned their lesson when those photos hit the internet, the boys learned theirs when they became a stain upon the greek community. Suspending the fraternity was appropriate, and any legal action girls (or guys) want to pursue is absolutely their right, especially possession charges since i’m sure those photos got a warrant, but there are fraternities out there putting kids in hospitals with (banned) hazing practices. Is this news? no. not really. of course the vast majority of news these days isn’t news…

    • lucyhoneychurch

      I don’t think that the boys have “learned their lesson” as you can see from the anonymous nimrod who has been interviewed and doesn’t even know what “satire” means.

      • Samantha Elliott

        You deny the double standard? It’s not okay for the boys to act immaturely but it is okay for the ladies to act immaturely? Either they are both stupid or neither is (for the record, they’re both stupid). And some of these pictures and screenshots were photos taken and texts written by the ladies themselves. If you send a picture of your boobs to a guy you liked at a party last night, odds are he’s going to show his buddies- in this case, they showed 144 buddies/the entire frathouse (no not the entirety of facebook). Most of those buddies probably saw the indignity in person. If you go to a party, odds are there are going to be pictures, and you are going to be in some of them, no matter how undignified your behavior. Yes, they were stupid and immature- ALL of them were stupid and immature, both the ladies and the gents. This is not newsworthy. Those who felt violated can seek legal recourse, but I honestly doubt that they’ll win. Chalk this one up to a lot of boys and girls did some very stupid things they aren’t proud of in college.

    • Michelle

      He has no valid points. Just because you can take a picture of someone doesn’t mean you should. And it certainly isn’t okay to upload it to the internet. And he hasn’t learned anything, since he is complaining about the frat having to take responsibility for their actions. People who think like you, are the reason why the frat and people like them, think they can get away with it. Engaging in victim blaming is never okay, and you engaged in victim blaming.

      • Samantha Elliott

        my understanding of the situation is that girls partied in a public place where many pictures were taken, and that other girls took pictures of themselves and sent them to boys they liked. These pictures were then shared with the all the boys’ friends. If my understanding is incorrect and these girls were roofied, raped, or otherwise staged, then I see where the victimization comes in, but my understanding is they went out, got drunk, “behaved badly” and are angry that the the indignity was documented. Having embarrassing photos of you taken in public does not make you a victim. If someone MADE them get drunk, naked, or unconscious, or physically abused them in these situations, then I fully believe they should pursue that legally.

  • NepotismIsDomesticTerrorism

    “Here’s a quick reality check: everyone — from Bill Clinton to your grandfather to every Greek organization in the nation does the same old stuff, just as they have been for the entirety of human history.”
    #####
    Kinda reminds me of when I was, about, oh, 7 or 8 years old and I asked Mom for permission to do something stupid because, well, everyone else in the neighborhood said they were doing or going to do it, too.
    Mom’s response: “If everyone else stripped themselves naked, painted themselves purple, climbed out on the roof of the house, and jumped off at the stroke of midnight, would you do the same?”
    Mom’s question kinda answers itself, doesn’t it?
    Here’s hoping somebody smacks the punk quoted above upside the head with some common sense.
    Perhaps another instrument might be more useful? There are options…
    To make this real simple, I include the PUNK TRANSLATION.
    PUNK: I don’t give a rat’s backside what Clinton, your grandfather, or every Greek organization in the nation has done or does; I only care about your organization. Right now. Period.
    PUNK, if you, and any other member(s) of the Vaunted 144, are too weak, too much of a follower, too obedient, too worried to speak up, too scared that you’ll lose your gig at Blank & Blank, LLC, a full-service legal firm or hedge fund with offices in the Cayman Islands, when you see something going on that you know is illegal, immoral, or just plain wrong, then you’re not a Brother. You’re not a Man. You’re not an Adult.
    You’re a Coward, who will go along to get along and surrender yourself and other human beings, as this case shows, to protect yourself and what you believes is rightfully yours for no one reasons than fear, weakness, and a complete and total lack of integrity. And nothing, I repeat NOTHING, that you write or say changes this fact. You’re stuck with the Yellow Line of Blind Conformity Tattooed Down Your Spine for the rest of your miserable existence.
    Maybe, if you’re lucky, someday you’ll get married and father a daughter. She’ll go off to college and some of the Brotherhood will offer the version of “the entirety of human history” on her high, drunken, and naked backside. Then you can explain the Brotherhood to your Little Angel.
    PUNK.

  • F

    But we do THON?

  • bill

    This individual SHOULD be outed because he is a moron and its obvious he was on drugs when he spoke with your news agency. This whole article must be intended to be “satire”. Burn the frat and burn this source.

  • alboy2

    You keep using this word “satire.” I do not think this word means what you think it means. Also, you’re a lying weasel, stop trying to convince us otherwise, bigot.

  • Joy

    How sad that a group of men could have such disrespect and so little value for women. My only hope is that something good can come of something so disturbing!

  • Matt PSU

    I don’t agree with some of the things this guy was saying, but I still respect him for doing that interview. He took a big risk of being alienated by all his friends. I had a reporter take my comments out of context once, and it got me in trouble. We don’t know that he posted any of the illegal or offensive content. I think a lot of comments are losing sight of that. There are a ton of satirical greek life sites out there (ex: psu sorostitute on tumblr), but their FB site took it way way too far and presumably has criminal content. The people who actually posted that should be expelled, after a proper investigation.

    • CJAS

      Ugh!

    • kglnyc

      You believe this guy is innocent and didn’t do anything just like he says and you sincerely respect him for anonymously talking to a reporter? You’re just the upstanding guy I’ve been looking for! My grandfather stashed millions in an off-shore account in Nigeria and I just need someone to give me their bank account information so that we can split the amount once I have it wired into your account. Send it to me right away and you can retire in style, Matt! Email me at suckers@yahoo.net.

      • Matt PSU

        The concept that you think this is “anonymous” is a joke. Just because his name is not on there, doesn’t mean people don’t know who he is. His brothers will know it was him. Believe me, if I did an interview it would take my guys like 15 min to figure out it was me.

        • kglnyc

          Hey, you should tell “your guys” — your “brothers” — about this deal. Have them send me their bank account info at the email provided and I’ll wire money into their account pronto. Those dudes should be able to figure it out in like 15 mins how great a deal this is!

    • kglnyc

      BTW, how do you know about the ex: psu sorostitute on tumblr?

      • Matt PSU

        ? It’s common knowledge in PSU “fratland”, as she would say. I don’t think that girl posts any more though.

  • The Ent

    When I first heard about this someone said that the defense that was being used was “boys being boys” and while those words aren’t used as far as I can tell the sentiment stands when I read terms like “bunch of college kids.” This phrase strikes me.

    The defense seems to be along the lines of “everyone our age does this **** “, and honestly this is an appalling statement for two reasons; first because he (they) believe that, and second because of the horrid lie that it is attacking so many who are nothing like that.

    The reason I have a problem with “boys being boys” is because when boys do something bad someone (their parents) are still held liable. So anyone who uses a defense along the same lines, “a bunch of college kids”, is basically saying “It’s not our fault, we are still children, blame our parents.” So I see the best response to this would be to take away their adult rights and privileges until they can prove they are no longer “kids”. I would say make them wards of their parents, but that would be unfair as these people should be adults by not so instead make them wards of the state until they can act their age. This is unfair to the public as they should not have to pay for these children either but they would have to pay if they went to jail as well so it seems less of an issue.

    What truly annoys me is that there exists a community that actually believes this is normal behavior. This needs to stop, adults need to act like adults and they need to know that they are expected to act like adults.

  • methinkthis

    So this guy thinks it is OK if pictures of his wife/significant other/daughter, nude, were posted on facebook or tweeted? If so let him do it and we will all go ‘haha’. How does he think these women feel? This was degenerate behavior regardless of who did it or how many are doing it. IMHO the frat should be permanently expelled and the students who posted the pictures also permanently expelled. If there is evidence that other frats or sororities are doing the same then the same punishment is also due them. Is it really too much to expect people to act like decent human beings? There is no human need for this type of behavior. Just as the behavior of the ISIS terrorists lowers all humanity so does the reported behavior of these frat boys. It is time to grow up. No one wants to employ someone with such lack of character and lowlife behavior.

  • Strawberry Shortfuse

    What a rape-minded sociopath this kid is. I’d love to know his name just so I can be sure to never ever ever hire him.

  • Vic

    Classic response. “Well, we do THON stuff on this group, so I guess this stuff just kind of happens too.” Well, I just ate this huge donut, so I better eat a banana to balance it out.

    • derp

      WTF is THON for christ’s sake

      • LaSargenta

        From one of the frat kid’s answers in the interview above: “…related to stuff like community service to THON, which is our charity organization…” I dunno, maybe it stands for something, maybe it is an abbreviation.

      • Folkgirl

        It’s the big PSU charity organization that culminates with a dance-a-thon every year to raise money for pediatric cancer research. It does raise a ton of money, but every time someone at PSU gets into trouble, they pull THON out of their back pocket as though their involvement offsets being horrible people.

  • KDR alum (different school)

    I feel the need to weigh in here as a KDR alum. I am deeply saddened by all of this. There may be a culture like this at the KDRs of Penn State and other schools (I have visited some chapters in PA where this sort of behavior doesn’t surprise me), but this does not jibe AT ALL with my experience of KDR at my school.

    I joined KDR for the right reasons- I forged personal relationships with people and joined an organization to further those relationships. I was resistant to “joining a frat,” as such; I just happened to find a group of friends who happened to coalesce in the same frat, so I joined.

    As an organization as a whole, KDR has many admirable qualities that drew me to it in the first place. They were the first fraternity to have a national nondiscrimination clause. My chapter had members of every race imaginable, and more than a few openly gay brothers. These brothers were welcome and part of the family like anyone else, as were their partners.

    Further, we respected women. Sure, there is bawdy 18-20-something boy chatter once in awhile (I would argue that this IS normal), but nothing resembling blatant disrespect, date rape or this kind of predatory behavior against women, drunken or otherwise, was ever condoned, nor did I ever see it happen as an officer in the fraternity or as a brother.

    Anyways, what I experienced at my chapter is not relevant to this abhorrent behavior. I stand lockstep in condemning it with the rest of you. I also agree that this guy is the worst kind of frat stereotype. I am frankly embarrassed that this “man” represents me IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, even inasmuch as we are technically “brothers.” As they say, you can’t pick your “family,” and I would not have chosen these shabby human beings as my family.

    I just wanted to point out that not every frat is a stereotype, not every frat boy is a stereotype, and most of my email/social media chatter the past few days has been alums from my chapter discussing how terrible this is for an organization we care about.

    • kglnyc

      Don’t tell us, tell it to your younger “brothers” — before they teach your future “brothers” this behavior and then get their hands on, perhaps, your future actual daughter(s).

      You’re feeling what you should feel: shame for an institution that either blatantly or inadvertently fostered this type of behavior among its members.

  • matt

    You have to figure that outside of the Pennsylvania area, having a PSU diploma is no longer a positive. Sad.

    • Jake Smith

      Not true whatsoever. Great engineering program, good networking (even out of state), great honors program, and respectable business school. Sad that you would say that.

      • matt

        Obviously, reading comprehension is a problem.

  • SJ13

    This kid is the definition of a pathetic frat boy that is throwing away his college education on partying and trashy behavior. As a female college student, I am disgusted with the way this scum bag portrays college life and the education of my generation. The way that these frats have to “live up to the way they are portrayed in the movies” is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Another thing, is everyone going to completely overlook the irrelevant witch comment? This kid obviously has a warped sense of what is morally and socially acceptable which gives him little to no credibility. Being a female, I know that I would NEVER be okay with having my picture taken, not only unconscious but NUDE, and then to be shared on the internet. That is unquestionably harassment, sextorion, and bullying, all of which are punishable crimes, and these kids deserve to be humiliated in prison. Absolutely appalled.

  • Bill Speakman

    Wow! can you give me this kids name so I can be sure that I do not hire him for anything..

    • Folkgirl

      Give it a few days. There are people sitting in front of computers in their basements who live for exposing cowards like this guy. Once they find him, then we’ll get to hear even more about how he and his brothers are the victims whose lives are ruined over something that isn’t “worth getting in trouble over.”

  • kate

    “But this is not a criminal thing. It’s not anyone else’s business, pretty much. It’s an inter-fraternity thing and that’s that” hahahaaaaaa

    • slickpoetry

      I’m guessing he hasn’t taken Criminal Law yet.

  • Vocal-Minority

    Lower than scum.

  • Kathleen Warnock

    I feel like this guy is going to have a career as a mob lawyer.

    • charles Galtenstein

      Probably not. Mobster usually shy away from lawyers who are complete idiots, and share that fact with the world.

  • kglnyc

    The fact that this boy hides behind anonymity says it all. If he were a real man who truly stood up for his behavior with no sense of shame, we’d get his name. Here’s an idea: expose his name and circulate it around the Web just like they did to the women they photographed unconscious and naked — maybe he would actually begin to understand irony.

    • Jake Smith

      You say that, yet post anonymously. Also, he wasn’t one of the people who posted, so what behavior should he stand up for?

      • kglnyc

        Fair enough I guess — my name is Kevin Lawrence and I reside in New York City. I proudly stand by my assertion that taking pictures of unconscious and naked women is wrong and then posting them for others to ogle at is also a violation of their privacy. This boy did the latter, and I strongly suspect he also did the former despite his protest that he’s a “good guy” who is just defending his “brothers” who did post these pictures. You can send me a message to my Disqus account if you think I’m still hiding behind anonymity to denounce this despicable fratboy and I’ll address your concerns from there.

        You, Jake Smith, should think about standing up for the right thing and denounce this creep as well.

        • Folkgirl

          Well played!

      • Folkgirl

        He wasn’t one of the people who posted or participated in taking photos of unconsenting, unconscious naked women…so he says. I wouldn’t take him at his word – he lost any and all credibility with “The fire of indignant, misplaced self-righteousness that looks to ruin people’s lives and unjustly ruin reputations is the abuse and violation that should be at the center of discussion, not the humorous, albeit possibly misguided, antics of a bunch of college kids.” and “I hope nobody gets in trouble because nobody did anything worth getting in trouble over.”

        • Jake Smith

          Right, but based on the information that you know, he didn’t. I do completely agree with him on the fact that the media seeks (not just in the case, but always) to twist the words, violate and exploit people. At the same time, some of the actions mentioned were not just “antics of a bunch of college kids.” Although I don’t think it was out of malicious intentions, people should get punished for it.

  • QueenSybilla

    I actually think his comments are more reasoned than most I’m reading here in the comment section. Based on the limited knowledge I (we) have about the fb page, it doesn’t sound like I’d agree with the “satire” label. But I understand his thought process, and it’s not ridiculous. I just don’t agree with it. On the other hand, most the tripe written in the comment sections IS ridiculous and I still don’t agree with it.

    • kglnyc

      So I’m assuming you wouldn’t mind having people photograph you undressed and unconscious and then circulate those images. No big deal, right?

      • QueenSybilla

        QED

      • QueenSybilla

        QED

    • charles Galtenstein

      The “limited knowledge”? You mean the fact that these frat boys had a secret facebook page where they posted pictures of naked unconscious women? His thought process to justify it doesn’t make it past the kindergarden “he’s just as bad”. And he seems really upset at the guy who “snitched” in his words. Spoiling all the fun. His thought process based on a vile objectification of women. Yet somehow you seem to take umbrage with the people who object to it. Whats your thought process? “Boys will be boys”?

    • Folkgirl

      No, his thought process is, in fact, ridiculous.

      • QueenSybilla

        Brilliant, thoughtful analysis. Thanks for making my point!

        • Folkgirl

          Honestly, it doesn’t require much thought or analysis at all. He actually stated that we shouldn’t be upset over the fact that these frat boys posted photographs of unconsenting, unconscious naked women on their Facebook page. Instead, we should be upset at the media for covering it and trying to ruin the lives of those who posted the pictures. His justifications? Those women went to a frat party where boys will be boys and we’ve all apparently done things like this so how dare we play hypocrite and throw his precious frat under the bus for something that isn’t, in his eyes, “worth getting into trouble over”.

          How can you say you understand his thought process but don’t agree with it? What is there to even understand? That these poor boys were never taught that it’s not OK to take advantage of unconscious women? That they maybe weren’t aware that it’s not OK to post naked pictures of these unconscious women on the internet? Maybe they live under a rock so large that it never occurred to them that a picture posted on a private Facebook page might somehow go public? That they were just having a little fun – just like everyone else including my grandfather – and now these poor frat boys’ lives are going to be ruined and all over something that’s not a big deal? No, that’s not a reasonable thought process – no rock is that large and it is common knowledge that photographing unconscious naked women at a frat house party likely constitutes a sex crime and isn’t harmless fun. So no, there’s nothing about his thought process that can be attributed to intelligence or reasoning nor is it remotely understandable.

  • Cranky Crab

    My grandfather was too busy fighting WW2 to rape co-eds and post the results on the town square. Sick little boys.

    • GhostOfJefferson

      Rape?

      Did you even *read* the article?

  • Cranky Crab

    “It’s okay because CLINTON!!”

    Frats are for morons.

  • Vocal-Minority

    Ironic that his privacy should be given protection.

  • Greg

    This little puke needs smacked. No anonymous, not everyone does this and I think I’d be right saying the majority of people don’t or didn’t do something like this rich spoiled fratboy did. I know he’s young but I was his age once and never did anything like he did. Was I a dog when I was his age when it came to women? Most guys were. We were looking to get laid. What guy wasn’t? But we knew when a woman was drunk passed out we didn’t take advantage of them. We didn’t strip them down and take pictures. And chances are they sexually assaulted this girls and probably drugged them.

    Throw the book at these punks. Close the frat chapter, kick them out of school and charge them with anything you can and see if thier rich parents can bail them out. See what kind of job you get with that record. As my dad use to say, the world needs ditch diggers too.

    • Jake Smith

      Everything you said was based on a ridiculous assumption. At Penn State Greek Life is a huge part of the culture. There are plenty of students there who are in Frats and Sororities who are not rich, in fact, I know some who work all year round to pay their dues.

      • kglnyc

        You’re intentionally missing the point, Jake — frat culture isn’t corrupt because many of its members are rich; it’s corrupt because it fosters and all too often condones irresponsible, disrespectful, and even criminal sexual behavior towards women. That’s why people are upset. By all means, you and your friends work hard all year round to pay for membership fees to any and all types of organizations; but don’t think that gives you carte blanche to violate other people in any way, shape, or form. When you understand that, your Amherst education might actually matter.

        • Jake Smith

          I’m not missing the point. I’m pointing out that them being rich (or poor.. or their financial status is general) is completely irrelevant to the situation. Greg said “rich spoiled frat boy…” and I pointed out that not all “frat boys” are rich and spoiled like he generalizes them to be. I never condoned or showed sympathy towards the behavior. It is disgusting, and I have said that repeatedly. Would I allow my kids (when I get older) to think that this behavior is acceptable? No. But at the same time, I don’t think it’s fair to sit around and take irrelevant shots at a respectable institution (PSU). This could have happened (and does happen) at any school, with any group of young men (doesn’t necessarily have to be a Frat.. sports teams and tight knit friend groups are guilty of similar behavior). I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Regardless, I think my Amherst education (just as many people’s college education) actually matters. Learning how to think matters, and I think my thought process with regards to this is reasonable.

  • Greg

    Apparently this punk never learned what the word satire means. Dear anonymous, if your reading these comments looking for a sympathetic person you find one. But if your looking for an education here’s a start.

    Satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and
    criticize people’s stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of
    contemporary politics and other topical issues.

    Nothing there about sexually assaulting a girl or violating their privacy. And yes I do believe these girls were sexually assaulted. Bunch a drunk frat boys and passed out nude girls.

    • Mark

      Nevermind what you “believe”, do you have evidence of sexual assault?
      Anyhow, these men used ridicule to expose (to each other) and to criticize the stupidity and vices of these women, particularly in the context of a contemporary topical issue such as our society’s overall refusal to hold women accountable for their behavior.
      Earlier I kind of thought the interviewee misused the word satire, but I don’t anymore thanks to your definition.

      • Greg

        The 1950’s called, they want their mindset back Neanderthal. If these spoiled frat children think like you then there was sexual assault. Another blame the victim ignorant tool. I’m assuming your part of this vile disgusting childish frat. Your mindset has no place in society. At least this society. Your garbage may fly in the Middle East but not in an evolved society. Join us and evolve. Yours is one of the most vile comments on here.

  • UnrepentantCarnivore

    Former Interfraternity Council officer here from a different university.

    Kudos to the Penn State IFC for suspending this fraternity. Despite what the very disturbed young man who gave this interview thinks, this is absolutely not standard behavior at fraternities around the country, nor is it normal college pranks.

    TP a campus monument? That’s a prank.
    Have a few drinks? College hijinks–as long as it’s in moderation.

    Take off an unconscious woman’s clothes and photograph her naked?
    Totally different matter.

    This young man belongs in a sex offender registry for the simple fact that he doesn’t understand the concept of consent. He thinks the only problem is the whistleblower. That’s a criminal mindset.

    College enrollment is not a sanctuary from the law.

    • kglnyc

      If only yours was the prevailing voice of Greek culture in this country, but as the news stories prove, you’re unfortunately a minority.

      And you should reconsider the whole carnivore thing. Peace.

      • Mark

        You think the prevailing voice should be making accusations without evidence?
        And what news stories? Like the UVA fraternity rape HOAX?

    • Mark

      Do you have any evidence that the women were disrobed by people other than themselves? Maybe you should research the term “libel”

  • Trishdy

    I need a shower after reading this.

  • lilin

    My granddaddy liked to sexually violate unconscious women and I don’t see why I shouldn’t get to do the same!

    Every single one of them needs to be expelled. The fact that he really doesn’t see what’s wrong with taking pictures of an unconscious woman and sharing them around means he and his friends can’t be on a campus. First of all, they’re not safe. Second of all, they’re too stupid to be worth educating.

  • Matt Weiss

    This kid reminds me of the white collar criminals who crashed the economy and got away without getting punished. I think their incredulity at the very idea that they did something worthy of serious punishment, even jail time (or, in the case of this kid, that in addition to any legal consequences he and his fraternity “brothers” are being exposed in the national media) for what they did comes down to a sense they have of what it means to be a criminal.

    To them, a criminal is not defined by what he does, but who he is. He and his friends are, in his world, among the decent and respectable people. When they do something stupid or hurtful, even illegal, it’s just a mistake. Everyone does stupid things, but these are good people! He, himself, is “a good guy,” by his own account. They come from respectable families in good neighborhoods. They go to college. Oh, and they’re very likely white and middle class.

    A criminal? Well, we know what that looks like. A thug. A scary guy. When he sells weed or coke or ecstasy, he’s a drug dealer and the people he associates with are a drug gang. When your frat posts pictures of kids selling each other the same substances, well, doesn’t everybody do this? We know these are good kids–they’re just getting a little wild.

    Matt Taibbi’s book, “Divide,” does a good job of describing a society in which some people and companies are beyond prosecution and some are presumed to be scumbags, whether they’ve done anything or not.

    This kid knows what side of the divide he’s on. My bet is that even if he and his friends gang-raped an unconscious woman (and I’m not suggesting they did), he wouldn’t see them or himself as rapists. They’d be good kids, and maybe they did something wrong, but who doesn’t do it, and why should their reputations be ruined? Go after the real criminals. You know what they look like. Leave the decent people alone to do, well, whatever the hell they want to do.

    • GhostOfJefferson

      Great race card bro.

  • ggail

    girls (or anyone for that matter) run, don’t walk from this disturbing young man.

  • SL

    Step one is for parents to teach their children respect. You are their parent, not their doormat or servant. If you cater to every single want or whim, bargain with them, or think that their behavior is about you (as opposed to their behavior being about testing limits) you will raise the sort of narcissists that inhabit this frat. If your child is acting like an ass – cut the behavior off – doesn’t matter what people think – you are the parent. Nobody has perfect children – but you can make them good adults by getting them to understand that life isn’t fair, they don’t always win, they have to pick themselves up and dust themselves off when they fail, and they don’t always get an A for trying hard. I once carried a screaming preschooler across the mall – I said no to some trinket he wanted. I could have bought it, I could have saved myself the finger pointing, dirty looks – but he was not hurt or abused, and I was not embarrassed – no is a part of life, and this wasn’t about me – this was about him learning limits. It’s pathetic that these frat members may have to learn what they should have learned as toddlers – but this is no time out – it’s a record that will and should follow them for a long time. But they don’t and won’t get it until they find themselves trying to explain this to a potential employer. Or cell-mate.

  • Value

    Congratulations, young sociopath, you have murdered the English Language!

  • jmb1

    This kid needs to his have nuts cut off so he doesn’t reproduce………

    If this guy is so self confident of himself and his beliefs that this is much to do about nothing then he should have the backbone to walk into his family’s Sunday dinner or his campus dinning hall and loudly exclaim I’m the anonymous guy in this interview and see what happens.

    …….what a pathetic boy!

    • Folkgirl

      Someone will figure out who this pathetic little troll is within a few days. I’m sure he’ll then entertain us with more “satire” about being victimized.

  • Baakus

    It’s amazing what White men get away with. Tomorrow, 100 frats could be proven to have sanctioned violent gang rape in their basement dungeons, and frat bros would still rule campuses all across the country.

    • Mark

      You’re a lunatic. If fraternities were proven to have sanctioned rape they would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law behind immense political pressure mostly from white people. The fraternities would also be potential targets of vigilante violence.
      In fact, when not proven, or even when not likely to have raped anyone, fraternities are still convicted in the court of public opinion, mostly led by presumptuous white people. Take for example the famous UVA fraternity rape hoax. That loon Jackie Whatsshername knowingly falsly accused of brutal rape a fraternity at whose house she wasn’t even present, just to get sympathy and attention from some guy who rejected her. After her fabrication unraveled, the university still added sanctions to the fraternities. So much for ruling the campus.
      Come visit us on Earth sometime and save your racist delusions for your psychiatrist.

  • Dr_MJ

    Wow I am so surprised that anyone would try to defend this behavior… this is not just a frat issue… if they can show who posted this they could spend many years in jail. that is many of these posts could result in 5 to 10 years mandatory prison sentences. And the so called source, could spend several years in prison for not disclosing the information…And the this site hiding this could also face charges… this is not just freedom of the press. this is fairly serious charges on rape and sexual assault and aiding and abetting

  • WilliamPeterson

    What an entitled little amoral twit. No, dude, everyone is not doing that, and even if they were that is no excuse.

  • KlintzDisqus

    Philly Mag: Couldn’t the same thing be said about the fraternity? That by posting photos of nude, unconscious women online, as well as intimate messages with women, that it could ruin their lives or their reputations?

    KDR member: How would it do so when it’s kept within the entirely, well, it’s supposed to be an entirely private group of 144 people?

    Philly Mag: Right, it’s 144 people on the Internet.

    ———
    So, let me get this straight… These women undressed themselves, laid out on couches/beds/floors/whatever, and said, “Hey, take a pic of me and post it to all your frat brothers while I’m passed out. I’m fine with that, as long as you keep it within your little group, all right?”

  • http://www.CSHeinz.com/ CS Heinz
  • Folkgirl

    If he thinks no one did anything “worth getting in trouble over”, why remain anonymous? Coward. My guess is that someone is going to figure out who he is and out him. Just give it a few days. Then we’ll really hear him playing the “victim card”. What a pathetic piece of you know what.

  • NM2000

    Wow, talk about doubling down on douc hery. What a cowardly loser. Isn’t
    even brave enough to put his name to this pathetically shameful display
    of idiocy.

  • Rob Hollins

    THON! That is the PSU refrain to anything bad. I love that. Kids are raped? THON. Football players beat up other students? THON! Psycho professor goes crazy on plane? THON! Frat takes pictures of girls who are naked and posts them? THON!
    THON doesn’t absolve a university for generally acting like a setting for Animal House.

  • horsecoffee

    Hey Tim Haas, your magazine is joke.

  • Marc Peterson

    I wonder how this clown looks his mother or sisters in the face when he’s home for Thanksgiving. This is a misogynistic “trophy” private page with 144 sick individuals. They won’t take it so cavalierly when the state police find evidence of underage women, possible date rape drugs or rape allegations. Above the door on their Tudor mansion frat house in Latin “Honor above all things”…yeah, right.

    • Mark

      Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor

  • Comment in Passing

    1) Too much rushing to judgement. None of us have seen all the pictures. None of us know the source of those pictures. None of us know how many were taken in a public place, how many might constitute a violation of privacy, how many were actually taken by frat members, whether any illegal activity happened, etc. Most people talking about this are simply jumping to conclusions based on their perception of frat behavior.

    2) He’s right that there’s a ton of self-righteousness and hypocrisy swirling around this. Objectifying women is a BIG bu$iness in America, and the media corps all line up at the trough with everyone else. Expecting a generation of young men raised on porn and the objectification of women to hold to a higher standard than the previous free-love generation (which has gotten rich off of the female body) felt obligated to hold to is laughable.

    3) Young women need to be smart and stay in control of themselves. Wear your seatbelt. Lock your doors. Don’t smoke. Stay sober. Don’t go to parties at frat houses. Etc. We obviously don’t know the details of any of these situations or pictures, and there may surely be real crime involved, but part of the narrative here needs to be that smart young women don’t normally show up in pictures like this because they avoid situations like this.

    4) Humans are mostly pigs. If there is no God, and you’re not religious, you have nothing to complain about when humans follow their biological urges.

  • supertaco

    What do Penn State and Baghdad Bob have in common? A lot.

  • JAIL KDR

    If he was a real man, he wouldn’t do this anonymously. He would grow up and take credit for these pathetic words.

  • Jennifer McGuire

    What an entitled little pissant.

  • LarryChemEngr

    This interview was appalling on so many levels. The utterly absurd justifications and excuses he offers. The repeated comment that “Everybody does this, and much worse, so no big deal, get off our case.” And, what was satirical about the facebook page? nothing!

    He is so blithe in his dismissal of how the facebook page could have really hurt someone. So insular. So privileged. So self-righteous, even when he is calling others self-righteous.

    I wonder how he would roar with laughter if he found a nude photo of himself, passed out, on a facebook page for hundreds to laugh at and gloat over.

  • Randi

    Penn statw Greek culture perpetuates rape culture and they see nothing’s wrong with it. Sickening.

  • Nate

    “It’s an inter-fraternity thing and that’s that.” So, the women were not involved at all, or at least any feelings they might have about it are not worth taking into account? How de-humanizing is that? It seems his explanation is that men have treated women liked crap for centuries, so what’s everyone’s problem? If he believes this behavior, by virtue of having a light cast on it, will “ruin reputations,” maybe it’s because it’s contemptible behavior. I weep for the future.
    And by the way, this bro needs to bone up on his composition, because that incoherent, rambling prelude was terribly written.

  • MomOfGirls

    You are pathetic!! What if it was your sister or daughter in the nude pictures? Would you think it was funny (oops satire) then? I’m sure the parents of these women don’t think your fraternity actions were “minor”. Whose lives were ruined? Certainly not those of the fraternity brothers. And… no we all don’t live in a glass house and we all don’t eat from a silver spoon. Reality check. We no longer living in the Middle Ages.

    • Mark

      When I was in high school my sister went to college in our home town. She came home on weekends to go to church with my parents. She rarely drank and pretty much never went to fraternity parties. She certainly didn’t get naked in public. She got straight As and then went to grad school and got a PhD. I was never worried about her acting poorly in public and being chronicled in private.
      Your attempts to compare these dumb slags to my sister won’t earn you many points from reality.

  • Hola mi pichola

    Liberal kids will find anything to whine about these days. Never mind all the Muslims beheading children, THIS page is the worst thing that ever happened!

    Sheltered dopes.

    • NM2000

      Good point. We should all stop talking about sexual assaults on campus and people posting naked pictures of others online against their will until we’ve stopped all fanatical Muslim groups. No way we should try to solve two problems at once. How silly of us.

  • Brett

    This kid better hope noone finds out he did this interview. As a current fraternity guy the last thing the national organization wants you to do after an incident like this is talk to the media. Not only did he do that, he made the organization look far worse by incoherently defending their actions.

  • Sadly, you still are…

    “Cute girl knocks on the door, what do you do?” The supreme leader of the cult of Penn State said this himself. The mindless Branch Campus Davidians follow along his example. We’ve heard this story before. Sexual violence is culturally accepted and even defended at Penn State. The university’s response to the football pedophile scandal? Hire a university president involved in a rape cover-up at FSU, and a football coach involved in a rape cover-up at Vanderbilt. Nitters gonna Nit. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2284993

  • dontthinktwiceitsalright

    The mentality of this person and these frat guys is chilling. They simply do not see anything wrong with violating and degrading women. They don’t see women as people. Just objects to laugh at.

  • shirleyfeeney@rocketmail.com

    “Like that one time, in the middle ages..”

    uh…what?

  • Amy Luna Manderino

    Oh. My. God. So…the FRATERNITY is the victim here? of a witch hunt?!? Wow. Can we have any more proof of the psychopathic entitlement of the Penn State fraternity culture? I am a Penn State alumni and the fraternities there have always been a cesspool of misogyny and dehumanization. Glad to see they are finally being held accountable.

  • ylama

    Everyone has hammered this kid rightly so in the comments so I have nothing to add to that. The one thing I must say that he’s kinda right is that it’s important when reading the news to remind oneself that the media is a business not a public service. They are in the business of making money just like everyone else. There is a reason that they choose to highlight the stories they do and it’s not due to wanting to help somebody. These stories do hopefully help the next stupid college kid to think twice but a lot of them do also throw the victims into the public eye (I’m thinks also about the recent Vanderbilt case) when it would be in the victims best interest if the case was professionally handled to the highest degree out of the media glaze. Once again most of the comments here have been spot on and written better than I could ever do, but for me personally I have to remind myself that the media does cherry pick their stories for what will sell the most and often times leave behind many more serious issues…the fact that in 2015 that everytime a human being kills another human being gets pushed aside for other crimes strikes me as odd.

    • NM2000

      Sometimes the media is required to get a case “professionally handled to the highest degree” because many professionals try to sweep these things under the rug.

      And making one quasi-salient point makes this kid and his frat brothers not less dangerous, criminal, or socially inept.

  • Elizabeth

    EXCUSE ME? Nobody did anything wrong? They sexually assaulted passed out women who couldn’t give consent! That by definition is sexual assault. So what if the women are seen in public and drinking. It doesn’t give little dipshits like this permission to take pictures of them while passed out!!!

  • PlacidAir

    Ask the GIRLS they violated whether it’s a big deal or not! What an utter scumball trying to justify that!

  • Elizabeth

    “I hope nobody gets in trouble because nobody did anything worth getting in trouble over.”

    I doubt he’d say this if it happened to his sister or daughter.

  • AmIaTravelingMan?
  • TomTheCork

    Has Philadelphia Magazine just been “Punked” by “KDR member”?

  • Guest 123

    This guy sounds like a complete idiot, defending his own white, male privilege because his “grandfather did it” (though I’m sure with Playboy photos, and not illegally-taken nude photos he publicly shared on the internet). He doesn’t understand “malice” in the legal sense, “satire” in any sense…

    And clearly by the only negative call-out by referring to the individual who reported them as a “snitch” he clearly DOES NOT GET IT.

    A smart, PR-savvy KDR member may have said, “The overall point of our Facebook group was to share internal fraternity information and not specifically to post illicit photos. These incidences only happened a few times and were only performed by a small number of individuals, so we feel the media has misrepresented us as a whole.”

    Stupid is as stupid does, and ego is as ego does.

    • Guest 123

      To be honest, I think this interview demonstrates the frat acted with malice. I hope they subpoena Philly Mag for this kid’s identity :-P.

    • GhostOfJefferson

      Take your “white male privilege” talk back to university where leftist ideologues will take it seriously.

  • scholarlymama

    The opinions expressed in this interview exemplifies everything that is wrong with the University Park campus of Penn State. I wonder if this tool would feel the same way if that was his sister or girlfriend who was victimized.

    • Jane

      Could not agree more. What a snot nose kid – Some of them just never grow out of their old Frat Sweaters.

  • Jane

    Dear Frat Bro – If you can’t GROW up, please SHUT up.

  • Jen

    First of all, the mere fact that you used the “the same stuff” is pathetic. Not ever acceptable and young fraternities should know that by now. Secondly, keep referring yourself to a bunch of college kids is unacceptable. Grow up. You are in college and should know better. party’s are fine and everyone has to be responsible for themselves,
    understood, but you have taken liberties to the extent. Shame on you. And, if you keep speaking on behalf of the fraternity, the fraternity should stop talking because you are not a good spokesman.

  • Diane

    His parents should be very proud

  • mike_cocke

    child molesters and racists…typical white hillbilly trash combo…can I get fries with that??
    Al Jolson?? Toby??? Step & fetch it?? dueling banjos??
    just sayin

  • Total Frat Shift

    This is exactly what I thought an interview with a PSU frat kid would look like: defensive/taking no responsibility, confused about the English language, and the word THON was mentioned when it wasn’t relevant to the article.

    • Mark

      This article is about the contents of a webpage and THON was a content of the webpage. Try to keep up, and stop trying to nitpick BS just because you disagree with him.

  • LeifCairn

    If his parents paid for his college, they should ask for their money back because that kid is still a dumbass.

  • Smitty

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/03/could-liberal-disgust-with-campus-brownshirts-be-reaching-critical-mass.php

    The reaction to this BS is an ideal exemplar of the hysteria gripping the nation. See above.

  • Mark

    Decades ago many young men hoped to find a wife during their college years. I was in a fraternity in Pennsylvania in the late 90s/ early 2000s and many of my housemates did end up marrying women they met during college. At the time, we looked out for each other to not become involved in long term relationships with unsuitable women. One way we did this was to report to each other the poor behavior of female acquaintances. Sometimes we did this online. We didn’t make public statements denouncing these women, just private warnings amongst ourselves.
    When these young men at Penn St maintained a private website that sometimes featured pictures or anecdotes of embarrassing female behavior at the men’s social gatherings, they were consciously or not performing the same vetting function as a warning to each other. By providing an atmosphere for these women to be themselves and do what they want, the men were in a sense testing these women. Many of these women failed the test, and that’s what the women are bitter about. They want to party like fiends but still have a good reputation, without which they might want to transfer to another school. I’ve seen it happen, and it’s the proper outcome of an effective shaming mechanism that might’ve saved some of my close friends from time wasted in torment with the wrong women.

    • lilin

      And the men? We’re shaming them for performing secret tests on women, deciding women have failed the test, and then taking picture of naked, unconscious women and sharing it with all of their friends. If they don’t like it, they can stop “secretly testing” women and then taking pictures of naked women when they’re unconscious and helpless. To that end, let’s publish a list with the full name and picture of every man on that board. After all, we don’t want some poor woman to pick one of them as her husband. It’s a vetting process.

      • Mark

        False analogy. A woman who gets drunk, strips, and passes out at a party is a much worse marriage prospect than a man who records her behavior.
        You’re shaming the men for testing the behavior of women? So what. Notifying one’s friends about unsavory women isn’t shameful, it’s useful. Who cares if a lunatic like you disapproves?
        Go ahead and “out” these men, the women already know who is in that fraternity.
        For you to think that standards for ladylike behavior are a “secret” reveals how deranged you’ve become under the influence of a fem-centric society that refuses to hold women accountable.

        • lilin

          First of all, your argument was false to begin with. These guys told us why they did it, and it was “to find a suitable wife.”

          But I’m glad you made this ridiculous argument because it shows us how immoral you are.
          A man who takes naked pictures of a woman when she’s helpless and shares them with a-hundred-and-forty-four people in an attempt to be “satirical”. It’s disgusting. Even the dumb frat boy who doesn’t know what “satire” means claimed he didn’t do that because he was a “good guy.” You’re arguing a point so immoral even the villains of this story don’t take it.

          And it proves these guys need to face consequences from the school and, for posting the pictures online which is against “revenge porn” laws in Pennsylvania, from the authorities. Someone needs to teach them basic ethical behavior and it won’t be men like you.

        • charles Galtenstein

          It takes a vile cretin to somehow pose this as a public service. Humiliating women. And we dont even know this was the reason for the photos, as we only have what you refer to as a “logical function”. What kind of miserable excuse of a human being comes up with this garbage anyway.

    • JGC

      Wow, Mark, I just noticed in this thread that you upvote all your own comments. That must be some form of masculine ego stroking, akin to all the stroking going on in the Kappa Delta Rho house as the brothers viewed the photos of the nude girls they had purposefully gotten drunk.

      • Mark

        So what

        • charles Galtenstein

          As the saying goes “The Rabbi that praises himself has a congregation of one”

          • Mark

            I’d rather stand alone than worry about catering to the mob mentality like the bunch of narcissists on here

          • charles Galtenstein

            Well if you keep on spouting vile degraded nonsense you definitely will be standing alone. Most people actually have the common sense and morals to see your justification above for the garbage it is. Newsflash, women are not chattel or property for you to make judgements on in this revolting manner. I would have hoped someone who went to college in the time period you indicate would be more “evolved”. Obviously not

          • Mark

            If I’m too unevolved to abandon antiquated principles such as due process of law and innocent until proven guilty, then fine, I’m on my own.
            If the women put themselves in the condition in which they were photographed, then I agree with the interviewee that it’s no big deal.
            If it’s proven that the men disrobed the women without consent then it’s a serious crime in the range of indecent exposure/ assault, and the men should be punished by the court.
            I don’t believe the interviewee was claiming that disrobing women without consent would be no big deal, so coupled with my own experience, I believe the women disrobed themselves. If it’s proven that they were stripped while unconscious, I’ll change my position and agree that the interviewee is a creep and the offending men are criminals.
            This is a much more reasonable position than the mob on this comment board, with their desires to bankrupt families, castrate people, and other psycho chatter. Especially vile are the men who think getting on their high horse and jumping to conclusions will earn them points with the irrational women cough cough.
            You only make judgements about your own property? That’s weird. Having no standards is no way to go through life.

          • JGC

            Due process is necessary for the individuals, but that does not mean that the university must subordinate all protection of its own interests until a ruling from the local court, which is what the national fraternity system desires. The fraternity/sorority system at the national level will not manage their youth ambassadors other than to step back and say “suspended, you are out of our hands”, and then dump the problem in the laps of the university system, the host town and their police. Many current students and future applicants to Penn State are questioning the choice of entrusting their expensive education savings and loans, not to mention their entire futures to the Penn State brand in its current disrupted state.

            That $13-million that the IFC/Panhel THON just brought in for the Four Diamonds Fund and Hershey Medical…How does that stack up against the harm done to the university and its student population in its entirety, if it could truly be measured?

          • Mark

            The school and students directly and indirectly bring increased revenue to the govt so it’s sensible that the govt would provide proportionally increased law and order services in the area to handle potential legal issues such as this. I don’t have much respect for the kangaroo courts of many universities because they have lower evidenciary standards (preponderance of evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt) and because they abandon some constitutional elements of due process such as the accused’s right to cross-examination.
            Are you saying you’re fine with the mens’ due process being curtailed in one of these dumb university “courts” because the university has PR concerns and investments and stuff? That would be quite callous of you.
            A university should also consider how the university’s treatment of current students will look to future applicants. Some national examples: the UVA president who added sanctions to fraternities even after it was shown that Jackie’s rape story was totally fabricated, the Group of 88 faculty members at Duke who have received no punishment and who have mostly been promoted after they jumped to conclusions and then refused to apologize to the falsely-accused lacrosse players, the teacher at Columbia who was giving class credit to that mattress-carrying psycho Emma Sulkowicz to turn her false accusation into an art project.
            Statistics show that men’s university application rates have have been consistently dropping in recent years. Men are wising up that the student loan debt isn’t worth it for a school that isn’t going to treat them fairly.

          • charles Galtenstein

            “If the women put themselves in the condition in which they were photographed, then I agree with the interviewee that it’s no big deal.” So basically you are cool with these guys taking pictures of nude women without their consent. To somehow refer to this as an “evolved concept” is actually repulsive beyond words. And sorry for you that this is not the good old days when men could treat women like chattel, although you seem to pine for those days.

            There is an alternate explanation for dropping male application rates. If your views are any indication, than a lot of your brethren are just too bone stupid to get into college. Sorry you have to actually dealing with enlightened view like gender equality and respect. One opines you would be more comfortable in a setting where you do not have to

          • Mark

            Being cool with it and not thinking its a big deal are two different things, but anyways…
            You think you have to own something to photograph it? That’s weird. People are recorded on visual media without consent everyday: CCTV cameras, drones, satellites, tourists including strangers in the backgrounds, etc. If a person is indiscriminate about where he or she disrobes, the person shouldn’t be surprised about being recorded.
            Did you know that in the 145+ IQ range, men outnumber women 6 to 1? The universities should embrace this intellectual ability instead of scaring it off with unequal, fem-centric mob “justice”.
            I’m willing to compare SAT scores with you to refute your baseless claim that men, represented by me, are too stupid to get into college. How about you, drama queen?

          • charles Galtenstein

            Your entitlement is showing. Too bad it is not backed up by the facts. In fact the average IQ of women has been growing faster than men and on an average is higher than men in some cases

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9401241/IQ-tests-women-score-higher-than-men.html

            You have any actual studies to back your claims, or do we just get to take your word for it?

            And somehow, even is this is true, you think this entitles you to treat women like chattel? And I would not be waving around my SAT scores if I were you, With the views you have been espousing all you are proving is you can be “book smart”, yet still a miserable excuse of a human being unable to function in today’s society. Then again, your use of “drama queen” to make a point does put your claims on that into question

          • Mark

            Save your entitlement talk for the other brain washees. Your Washington Post link brings up a story about religious freedom that makes no mention of IQ. Even if it did back up your statements, it wouldn’t refute mine because I was discussing elite IQs and your point is about average IQs.
            Here’s a story that shows my stat was too conservative and the actual ratio is 8 men to every 1 woman:
            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1274952/Men-ARE-brainy-women-says-scientist-Professor-Richard-Lynn.html
            You keep trying to refute claims that no one is making about people being property or “chattel”. You put a phrase like “evolved concept” in quotes as if you’re quoting me. You didn’t even link the correct story, a story that wouldn’t have helped you anyway. Are you sure you’re the person who should speculate on my functionality? You’re a drama queen because of your rhetorical style: appeals to emotion, appeals to the crowd, ad hominem attacks, etc.

          • charles Galtenstein

            How did that happen, Fixed that for you. Interesting to note that the expert you cite states that The undeniable, easily measurable fact remains that,

            “by the time both sexes reach 21, men, on average, score five IQ points higher than women.”

            Something the findings listed above refutes quite nicely. Would be nice if he (or you) had some findings yourself to back it up, but he seems not to have had any. Your attitude seems to be that actually objecting to these actions somehow drives away men from college. One would hope any man that intelligent could actually function in an egalitarian environment. Sadly, you seem to lack that ability

            Your whole attitude about women screams chattel. As in that somehow this page was a public service to warn your fellow frat boys against evil women. (by the way posting their pictures like that is against the law, besides being vile and degrading). While this may be all the rage with the crowd you run with, in the real world it is rather revolting.

            And it is not an ad hominem attack to point out vile degrading excuses being made for the revolting actions of these alleged human beings.

          • Mark

            If posting pics to a restricted area is against the law, you might want to tell the NSA. I believe women are sentient agents with equal rights to life, liberty, and rightfully gained property, and with the ability to create a reality about themselves that wouldn’t be “degrading” if recorded. I’m giving them more respect than some of the people on here who act like the women are damsels in need of insulation against their own behavior.
            Your cited author’s back up is an anecdote about a married couple where the wife is smarter. Great “findings”. Anyway, I’m not going to quibble about a 5 or so point difference in average IQs. People with elite IQs are better able and more likely than people in the average range to do college course work and to bolster the school’s academic reputation, and to become alumni who donate to the school. Universities should prioritize the recruitment and retention of high IQ candidates and statistically most of these are men.
            Elite IQ people are also better able to recognize bias cough cough. The prejudice of the faculty at UVA, Duke, and Columbia in those national examples I listed are great examples of bias against men at what should be prestigious schools. Observant men have taken notice. The falsely accused men in those stories are less reprehensible than these Penn St men whose behavior was more dubious, but the prejudiced reactions to this Penn St case are also examples of that bias. You might not believe me that this national bias is turning men off college, but I’ve heard directly from young men who said it is.
            So I seem to lack the ability to function in an “egalitarian” environment such as a prestigious university? Reality disagrees. I’ve successfully graduated, I’ve never committed or have been charged with a crime against a female, and I’ve never taken, uploaded, or shared a picture of an unconscious female. And it’s not the rage with my crowd.
            Other examples of your (untrue) ad hominem attacks include referring to me as entitled, nonsensical, immoral, unevolved, “cool with…”, pining for chattel slavery, “too bone stupid”, uncomfortable with paying respect, “vile cretin”, “miserable excuse for a human being unable to function”, etc. The closest I came was calling you a brain-washed drama queen (and a dumb authoritarian in that other thread about the drug references on the private Facebook page).
            When you use egalitarian do you mean equal rights or equal outcomes?
            Imagine if a man went to a sorority house, got drunk, exposed himself, and passed out. If the sorority women took pics of him and posted them to a private website intended for the sorority women only, I wouldn’t advocate action against the women by the law or by the university. Would you? I’d simply recommend that men avoid that house if they’re prone to becoming unconscious away from their own residences.

          • charles Galtenstein

            “If posting pics to a restricted area is against the law, you might want to tell the NSA.” If you are trying to make an arguement that you are not “bone stupid”, then coming out with a statement equating a Frat with a Governmental Intelligence agency is not the way to do it. Then you are just making my point for me. And again, according to the police it is a crime. One doubts “but the NSA does it” argument is going to work for them

            “Your cited author’s back up is an anecdote about a married couple where the wife is smarter. Great “findings”.”

            The back up is the research he did for his book on IQ trends in the modern world

            http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/psychology/personality-psychology-and-individual-differences/are-we-getting-smarter-rising-iq-twenty-first-century?format=HB

            You seem quite intent of proving those “ad hominem attack” against you correct, because that is a moronic remark

            “You might not believe me that this national bias is turning men off college, but I’ve heard directly from young men who said it is.” So based on your personal experience, men being called out for disgusting behavior is turning some men off college? Somehow one believes that those are not the stellar candidates you think they are

            Calling what happened to these women as some kind of “test” to show their worth as suitable wives does somehow show your world view, vile as it is. Especially when factoring in comments like this of yours

            “A woman who gets drunk, strips, and passes out at a party is a much worse marriage prospect than a man who records her behavior.”

            As you can tell by the outpouring of comments here, your view is somewhat the minority standard here. So sorry your male entitlement is going away. You can whine about it later with the rest of your ilk

          • Mark

            A govt shouldn’t be allowed to do what a private individual isn’t allowed to do (cue authoritarian cognitive dissonance). You’re right that this philosophy might not work with police, but the laws of the police are not reliable moral guidelines. I also don’t think it’s a big deal to drive 56 in a 55 mph zone, for a 20 year old military veteran to drink a beer, to rip a tag off a mattress, or to violate some of these Pennsylvania-specific laws: more than 16 women can’t live in a house (brothel law), housewives can’t hide dust by sweeping it under a rug, and people can’t sing in a bathtub. http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/pennsylvania
            The only somewhat sensible point you made (in parentheses) in this whole thread was about the alleged unlawfulness of the Penn St men’s behavior, but even that doesn’t hold much weight in light of frivolous legislation.
            What was the “disgusting behavior” of the UVA men whose fraternity was placed under added restrictions by the UVA administration as a result of the “Jackie” story? What makes you think those UVA men are less than stellar candidates? You’ll probably decline to answer this one unless you attempt some more of your dishonesty.
            Examples of your dishonesty:
            – False quotes such as “logical function” and “evolved concept”
            – Strawman arguments such as:
            – “pose this (private Facebook page) as a public service”
            – “even is (sic) this (the elite IQ sexual disparity) is true, you think it entitles you to treat women as chattel” when it was clear that the point of bringing it up was to refute your untrue, sexist claim that men are too stupid to get into college.
            – “men being called out for disgusting behavior is turning some men off college “. No, men being called out for nonexisting behavior is turning some men off.
            – “it’s not an ad hominem attack to point out vile degrading excuses…” when I wasn’t referring to your pointing out excuses but to your insults.

          • charles Galtenstein

            “A govt shouldn’t be allowed to do what a private individual isn’t allowed to do (cue authoritarian cognitive dissonance).” Making up laws to suit yourself only highlights the idiocy of your arguments. Bad news, they are allowed to print money, go to war, etc, and private citizens cannot. And your equating the behavior of the “gentlemen” with driving 1 mile over the limit manages to only reinforces that point

            Since the UVA incident is not under discussion here, you seem to be the one involved in a straw man argument since not one is criticizing them at all.

            The “false quotes” is not a sign of dishonesty, its a show of contempt for your lack of logical function and evolved concept

            You were the one defending the page as a test for fellow groveling cretins to determine who is marriage material.

            “”even is (sic) this (the elite IQ sexual disparity) is true, you think it entitles you to treat women as chattel” when it was clear that the point of bringing it up was to refute your untrue, sexist claim that men are too stupid to get into college.”

            Actually the point was made in reference to this quote of yours

            “Did you know that in the 145+ IQ range, men outnumber women 6 to 1? The universities should embrace this intellectual ability instead of scaring it off with unequal, fem-centric mob “justice”.”

            In decrying strawmen, you seem to fall back on lying about the original arguement.

            – “men being called out for disgusting behavior is turning some men off college “. No, men being called out for nonexisting behavior is turning some men off.

            No the behavior we are discussing here is real, just because you dont like it does not make it so.

            “it’s not an ad hominem attack to point out vile degrading excuses…” when I wasn’t referring to your pointing out excuses but to your insults.

            When you resort to lying, misrepresentation and general ignorance, while these are insults, there also sum up your philosophy quite nicely. If you dont want to be called out for your misogynistic vile ways, perhaps you should keep them to yourself.

          • Mark

            What laws did I make up? Another example of your dishonesty.
            Private citizens can print money such as physically encrypted bitcoins, and they can go to war: http://elitedaily.com/news/world/facebook-page-volunteers-fight-isis/860960/
            This is besides the point because I wasn’t discussing what govts do, I was discussing what govts should/ shouldn’t do. Yet another example of your dishonesty that’s either deliberate or the result of poor reading comprehension. Govts can make many things legal for themselves through legislation, often dubious.
            Are you even able to understand the sequence of this discussion? Your statement that “men… are too bone stupid to get into college” came before any mention of IQ. Your claim to the contrary is a blatant lie.
            I cited your own words to show your many examples of dishonesty, but you can’t do the same. Instead you just try to call me the liar instead. What’s that children’s phrase, I know you are but what am I haha
            False quotes are definitely dishonest. For you to claim otherwise is preposterous.
            I don’t really care about your insults, I was doing you the favor of letting you know they aren’t the most persuasive technique.

          • charles Galtenstein

            It is amazing the depths you will sink to justifiy your elitist attitude. And going to war if your country does not can get you into an inordinate amount of trouble, ask those heading to the middle east to participate in that conflict. And newsflash, unless there is a warrant, the NSA is not supposed to do that anyway. You wish to let me know what legal basis the frat was working on when they did that.

            And you still have not answered under what right one had to treat women like chattel again. Other than your “test” to keep those bad women from getting married to your good brethren.

            As for IQ, you still have not owned up to your own idiocy in trying to put forward the theory that a researched book was based on anecdotal evidence, because apparently you were too stupid to read the article throughly

            Of course you dont care about insults. If you did, you would not be exposing yourself as a vile excuse of a human being in such a public way. Newsflash, being honest about your cretinous beliefs is not admirable, just pathetic

          • JGC

            The Kappa Delta Rho students’ actions are being reviewed through several separate processes: there is the investigation being conducted by the State College police, and there are also reviews being conducted by Penn State University and by the Penn State IFC. Maybe you, as a narcissist, do not have any respect for these university and fraternity courts, since justice is best served through the Court of Mark; nevertheless these guys will have to deal with their actions being examined as such, and they were fully aware of their obligations due to the hovering Risk Management apparatus set up through the fraternity system.

            From the Penn State IFC Code of Behavior, disciplinary action is to be taken by the IFC Judicial Board in the event of:

            “1.) Violation of written University policy or regulations in an official publication or administrative announcement of the Pennsylvania State University.

            2.) Violation of local, state or federal law on University property or off campus, where such violation of the law has an adverse effect upon the University or upon individual members of the University community.”

            And from the Penn State Office of Student Conduct FAQ:

            “Q: Can I be held accountable to the Penn State University Code of Conduct if I was not found guilty in court?

            A: The student conduct process addresses your obligations to Penn State University and the Code of Conduct. Any legal process in the courts or with a criminal case relates to your separate obligations to state and federal law. Therefore, whether or not you are found guilty in court has no impact on the Penn State conduct process.”

          • JGC

            But wouldn’t a narcissist be prone to upvoting himself/herself in a public forum? And not just one particular salient point self-voted, but every single utterance made? Isn’t that the perfect example of narcissism?

          • Mark

            No, unless the self up votes were done by an externally referenced person who thought that it would fool others and himself with prestige from the ingroup. This isn’t the case with me because I know I did the upvotes and I know that it’s easily apparent to someone like you.
            I don’t like the upvote system because the comment board defaults to giving higher billing to higher voted comments. When I first saw the board, the highest rated comment was an irrelevant one about the interviewee not knowing what satire means, which is incorrect: ridiculing the poor behavior of these women might not be the type of satire a lot of us are used to, but it’s still a type of satire. Even if it were true that the interviewee misused the word, it’s a silly, diversionary, semantic argument, but that is what was valued most by people here! There’s little use in that besides an opportunity to demonstrate to the ingroup their “superiority” over the interviewee. Narcissists.
            Unlike narcissists, I don’t have a strong fear of being out grouped and my ego doesn’t care about the mob’s opinion of me. My upvotes were for an obvious, practical reason: to bring exposure to one of the few dissidenting opinions, one that values due process for the men. And it might’ve worked: it increased the chances of us having this discussion.
            But thanks for the attempt to frame me as a hypocritical narcissist because I gamed the comment board system, lol. Just another diversionary tactic because your points on the actual topic are weak.

  • yup

    Philadelphia Magazine prefers a collective outrage in the comment section and deletes comments of a different view, Philadelphia Magazine is Biased. Philadelphia Magazine is promoting the college Rape narrative that all the left media is spewing forth.

  • Dan

    I really hope people don’t use this as another excuse to bash Penn State as a university. Obviously what these people did was wrong, and they should be punished, this is not the “norm” for Penn State students and it kills me as a senior about to finish my degree that the actions of idiots like this (combined with a pretty well known football coach…) might take away from all the effort I put into getting my degree.

  • Libby

    http://onehotmessalaska.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-onions-rejection-letter-to-dipshit.html

    My blog’s humorous and timely response, from as far away as Juneau, Alaska.

  • Vangotech

    I think the entire interview could be a smart piece of satire. Either that or the kid’s just an idiot.