Parkway’s Family Court Building Now Has 3 Luxury Hotel Proposals

In October 2012, the city’s Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation (PIDC) issued a Request for Qualifications from developers for the acquisition of the Family Court Building at 18th and Vine (court operations are moving to 15th and Arch). PIDC made one thing abundantly clear: They were only accepting proposals “from qualified and experienced development firms with the demonstrated ability to successfully design, finance, and develop historic properties of a similar size, cost, scope, and complexity.” Which narrowed it down. Significantly.

Of nine contenders, three are currently left standing. Logan Square Holdings, which counts Ken Goldenberg as one of its investors, would bring Fairmont Hotels & Resorts. Carl Dranoff would join HRI Properties of New Orleans to create a Starwood Hotels & Resorts property. And Philly’s P&A Associates and the Peebles Corp., which has long had interest in this area, would bring another Kimpton Hotel to town.

Obviously, whichever of the three plans goes into effect, it will mean big changes for the Parkway area, which is already in major transition–and for the better. Some of the recent or pending developments are:

1. The first Mormon Temple in Pennsylvania, sited at 17th and Vine, currently under construction
2. Sister Cities Park, finished and lovely
3. Barnes Museum, finished, lovely and critically successful
4. The Oval, in the process of becoming
5. Rodin Museum, reopened after renovation
6. Museum Towers II, proposed for 18th and Hamilton

If things keep going along like this, people are going to actually want to stay nearby, hence the notion of a luxury hotel.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20130712_Luxury_hotel_plans_for_former_Family_Court_building.html#r6QChRpdl08cRG61.99

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  • Greg Meckstroth

    it would be great if a 30-story tower were added to the top. Make it part hotel, part residential. The more uses the better.

  • frost

    I think there’s a glut of hotel rooms coming in the near future. The location might insulate this development, but once a few more of the planned conversions come online in CC, watch out.

  • OG

    Don’t forget The Granary development right behind.

  • usmcnole

    I believe if Vick plays well, He could be our QB for the next 4-5 years barring serious injury. His mobility might decrease but his arm strength and quick release aren’t going anywhere

    • ACViking

      The man’s never played a full year.

      Rodgers, Favre, the Mannings, Brady (but for lost year to ACL) — those guys play ALL 16 games.

      If Vick is the answer in Philadelphia, then Kelly’s in trouble.

      • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

        thank you. I don’t get this. He wins the starting job by making it through ~75 snaps healthy, and now he’s our long-term answer?

      • Media Mike

        Once Vick won the job by outplaying Foles this pre-season, this had to be the move. I expect Vick to fail due to injury / turnover propensity, but what else did you want Kelly to do? For the record, I’m on team Foles (because I want to see what he can do with a full year as the starter and I know what to expect from Vick based on track record), but you can’t have a competition and then give the gold metal to the guy who finished second.

    • #7

      It could happen. I don’t doubt that at all. To be honest, I’m just focused on this year though.

      i think that we can win if our defense can get TOs

      • usmcnole

        TOs? I’m just hoping for stops. That would be an improvement from last year

    • Richard Colton

      see that’s a bold prediction. completely nuts, but bold. No way Vick is a starting QB in the league at 38. I’m not sure he’s got a starting job anywhere after this year.

      • #7

        Please tell me when you became an expert. I want to get those skills too. Where can I get them

        • Richard Colton

          it took years my friend. years. but seriously, look around the league. When teams look to change their starting QB, they go great or they go young and unproven. Since Vick is neither, where does he go to start? Jacksonville? Minnesota? remember, all those teams may be thinking 1st round QB in ’14 too.

          of course, the other advantage I have over you is that the people who live in my geographical area also happen to be Eagles fans, so there’s that.

          • #7

            I just think it’s amazing that you can predict the future like that! I’m so sorry to question you sir

          • Richard Colton

            it’s all about the odds. Mike Vick could be starting for the LA Gold in 2017, but odds are, he’ll be on TV doing play-by-play.

          • #7

            We shall see sir

    • JamesDDl

      Maybe 3 – 4 years . . . Which is the same conclusion that CK came to in the decision to bring MV back. He also knows that if it works okay, that they’ll have no problem resigning him – if this system works for MV (and everyone concerned), Philly is the only place for him. But he also needed to see if NF would take a quantum leap in a competitive situation. That didn’t happen and barring injury MV should be the starter for a few years or until he is supplanted by next years draftee.

    • guest1

      I like Vick, but he doesn’t have a quick release

  • GiveMeABreak

    Good summary. CK made right decision and MV7 earned it. If OL can avoid injuries, our offense should be entertaining. Our defense is likely to be the proverbial turd in the punch bowl, however, …

  • Kevin

    Solid decision because MV7 earned it. Now the question is can he sustain and improve upon it? Could be a fun year if he does. The one thing that bugs me is the ‘play the guy for the future argument’ for either Barkley, Foles or a draft pick next year. These are young NFL players, with low cap numbers. Foles & Barkley should be better with just a year on the bench under their belt. If MV7 comes back in 2014, for a few more years, doesn’t mean that a future QB can’t be on the bench learning and waiting…. aka Rodgers (behind Favre), Brady (behind Bledsoe), etc. (And I am not saying that these guys are those guys, just saying if MV plays well and gives you a chance to win, you can learn and prepare with a clipboard for a year or two).

  • Jutty

    Suck for Bridgewater?

    • Richard Colton

      weak. suck-for-luck worked. it needs to be something like “Tank-for-Teddy” or “miserable-for-mariotta.” Rhyme scheme or alliteration. Anyway – Way too early for that. It’s August; as soon as they kick off we’re going 16-0.

    • LeClaw

      We are going to drown for Clown

      • Richard Colton

        Cox-Logan-Clowney. how does that ’14 D-line strike you?
        or, if you prefer, Barwin-Meco-Kendricks-Clowney

        • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

          “Clowney-Cox” makes me giggle.

          • #7

            only you would think that lol. @theycallmerob:disqus whats up bro. Really enjoy your posts

        • Media Mike

          Clowney would be wasted at 3-4 DE, you’d play him in the predator spot.

          • Richard Colton

            he’s good enough to play nose tackle and safety. I don’t care where you put him – just get him. our D wants for impact playmakers like fat kids want cake.

          • Media Mike

            Then put him in a position to make plays. If you draft Clowney, he immediately becomes the predator. Why would you bottle him up inside with potential guard / tackle double teams and negate his speed by playing him at 3-4 DE?

          • Richard Colton

            I think he could bulk up and become a force in the run game too. I seem to remember this one play… but yeah, like I said above, you want him hunting at OLB, sure.

        • Dutch

          The only way I would feel comfortable trading Barkley or Foles would be if we were assured at being able from the trade to be in a position to possibly draft Clowney

      • #7

        Now THAT would be something

  • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

    Mike earned it. Or won it I should say. Let’s hope Kelly and Mike can make magic. Gotta love this time of year. All the hope of a new season with none of the disappoint. Go Eagles!

  • JofreyRice

    Basically, you could argue that Vick over Foles is the same reason Seattle put Wilson over Flynn. Both QBs can run the offense, but only one of them has the tools to get you huge chunks of yards and points in single plays. You have to go with the more dynamic player.

    Really, back when they hired Kelly, I advocated getting rid of Foles because he wouldn’t fit, and was even more confused when we drafted Barkley. Now that we’ve seen the offense, I can understand wanting to see what you’ve got in Nick, but still scratching my head on the Barkley pick. Like you mentioned, he doesn’t absolutely NEED a mobile QB, but the threat of the QB running is pretty much the key to the two basic plays, IZR & OZR.

    Trying to compete against Vick in a system like Kelly’s was always a huge obstacle for Foles, but the fact that his arm is what it was at the end of ’12 shows you that he’s probably not ever going to be a viable franchise QB. NEXT!

    • #7

      I don’t think the system would have mattered. Why is it that Vick just can’t flat out be better than Foles for you people?

      I just see a lot of minimizing and excuses instead of just coming right out and saying that the best man won the job

      • Richard Colton

        excuses – which Vick supporters have made their bread and butter for his entire career. He’s good, not great. we’re getting an average QB at this stage.

        • #7

          You be sure and tune in man

          • Richard Colton

            in your mind, Vick is an elite QB who’s been held back for 13 years. I’ll believe it when I see it.

          • #7

            Show me where I posted that please.

          • Richard Colton

            what else explains your cheerful optimism in the face of season after season of failure? he’s been to one pro-bowl – you know the game where they take everybody – since 2005. not to mention the turnovers. but this is the year…

            I’m not waiting for the start of an NFL season, I’m waiting for Godot. its like groundhog day…que Sonny & Cher.

          • #7

            So I should be down in the dumps like you. Got it

          • Richard Colton

            well if the only thing I cared about was the QB…you know…like you…then that would be true. There’s a lot to be excited for/hopeful about this year. vick/foles/barkley doesn’t look like one of them.

          • #7

            I guess we missed each other on the blogs about the defense, right? I’m all over that too. Why don’t you go back and take a look sir. If you would take the time to notice, I talk about defense ON THIS ACTUAL BLOG. I guess you missed that too.

          • Richard Colton

            no you don’t. “we need turnovers” isn’t thoughtful or insightful. its lazy. when the Eagles go on D – what do you change the channel to? Nascar? Braves? Thrashers?

          • #7

            Blah blah blah. Can you come up with something else???

            i’ve made my comments about Nate Allen. I’ve shared my concerns about Cole and Graham in coverage. And i’ve said my piece about Cary Williams bringing an attitude to the defense, but not being a great cover corner. I want Matthews over Chaney…I would like Acho to make the team. jake Knott WILL make the team.

            What else do you need to know?

            Square and Bennie Logan will have an impact this year too.

            Let’s hear the next excuse sir

          • Richard Colton

            its easy to see why you don’t get it. you’re not passionate about winning, you’re passionate about your guy. you found a player you liked (Cunningham) and made the Eagles your team. So you pick guys to cheer for. You want to see your players make great plays. Wins/losses and championships are unimportant because you aren’t plugged into the community.

            Next time I see a lady with a Matt Ryan jersey up here, I’ll get you her email address. Maybe we can set up some kind of prisoner exchange.

          • #7

            Richard do I have to explain every reason why I’m an Eagle fan? You want to know my whole life or something? Damn. As a young kid, who doesn’t notice the QB first? Come up with something else man. Why do you even have to go there lol. Ih yeah that’s right, because you QB got his a.. beat.

            makes sense

          • Richard Colton

            you alreay have. its telling that when you did, you talked about what players’ poster was on your wall, rather than a game or season or father/son experience – you know, like most fans.

            You have every right to like whomever you want, but everything about you smacks of liking Vick above the Eagles, which makes your strutting over the QB contest lame.

          • #7

            I don;t give give two shi…. what you think Richard. Wasn’t raised in Philly and never claimed to be.

            Hard to attend games with my dad when I’m 1500 miles away at the time

          • Richard Colton

            but if I was Troy Aikman you would…how ’bout dem Cowboys!

          • #7

            ??????

          • Richard Colton

            Roger Staubach?

          • #7

            Got sit down and put a dip in your mouth country boy.

            It’s over. Your boy wasn’t good enough

          • Token

            Is there an ignore feature on this comment section?

          • Andy124

            Yes. It’s that little scrolly wheel thing between your two mouse buttons.

          • Dutch

            That is separate from you in what way exactly?

            You seem just as disappointed has he may be gleeful by the outcome of the competition at QB.

            This looks like a case of sour grapes.

          • Richard Colton

            I am disappointed. I was hoping that one of the 1st or 2nd year guys could grap the job. Barkley looks lost and Foles failed to set the world on fire. That means we are even farther away from a Superbowl because the QB we need doesn’t look like he’s playing for us right now.

          • Dutch

            As I posted above, I disagree with the forecast you prescribe for the future. I don’t see this as a failure honestly. Foles made modest improvements over last season, not enough but positive movement and it’s only expected with another year on the bench and learning he’s going to be even better next season as will barkley.

            I like how the stable of Eagles QBs are shaping up for the immediate future and I’m sure team will come knocking as they did for Kolb. I can’t tell anyone what to believe, but I’m not giving up on either Barkley and Foles and would be disappointed if either were traded away. I think we have something

          • Richard Colton

            ummm. totally confused. Do you think Foles can be a good QB or not? You ripped him pretty hard

          • Dutch

            Any discussion about the Eagles defense is wishful thinking. There aren’t to many fans of Football who are discussing the Eagles and Defense. That’s a waste of time.

            Did you take notice some of the Eagles 2012 defense are all around the league being implemented in 3-4 schemes, Daryl Tapp is in Washington, a Defensive End last year with the Eagles, he’s the Redskins LOLB.

            Notice the penetration Mike Patterson is getting playing on the Giants defensive line? He wasn’t that productive here.

            Short story, until the Eagles find a way to get linebackers they are in for a rough landing and the Offense lead by Vick will again be forced to drag the defense alone for the ride.

          • #7

            Preciate that Pete. They keep saying that I only care about the defense, well I see none of them talking it as much either. The QB comp will always be the main topic of discussion

          • Dutch

            How many winning Seasons on any level has Foles had as a starter since leaving High School?

          • #7

            Watch out now. they don’t like facts

          • Richard Colton

            I don’t know, zero? two? you’re confident that you know something about Foles that even Howie and Chip didnn’t know before the offseason. Foles may be Kafka 2.0 – but that changes nothing about Vick.

          • Dutch

            That wasn’t the question, I’ll repeat it again…….. How many winning Seasons on any level has Foles has as a starter since leaving High School? You made reference in a prior post about season after season of Failure and Foles over his college and professional career definitely fits that profile being he’s not played on one 500 or better team since leaving high school.

          • guest1

            booooooooooooooooooo

          • Dutch

            He didn’t have to prove elite, he only had to prove Foles wasn’t as good. That’s a mission accomplished and was actually never in doubt. It’s not like the Kid did’t have the chance to put this competition away.

            You could not have asked for a more fairer competition than what you got. Played before the entire nation to witness. The overwhelming conclusion was the competition was not remotely close.

            In Phila, the outcome among the population of Eagles fans is 78% believe Kelly made the absolute right decision. That is similar to the poll on how many in the population supported Vick before the mythical competition.

          • JofreyRice

            damn disqus!

        • Dutch

          What would you have had without Vick, Mike Kafka 2.0?

          If that’s the case the Eagles aren’t loosing ground with Vick over Foles. We all sat here and cried blood tears watching Foles in 2012 there just was no way the Eagles could have wheeled Foles out in 2013 as a starter, no way.

          The Eagles with Foles would have been laughable throwing 5 yd outs to DeSean Jackson because ole noodle arm can’t make the throw downfield.

          Not one media pundit with actual NFL playing experience saw this competition turning out any other way. I along with a great many of the pundits always thought this was a ruse by Kelly to extract the best out of Mike Vick in camp who up until this point probably never had to compete and won on shear talent and athletic ability.

          • Richard Colton

            possibly. I don’t know that for a fact. I do, however, know something about Nick Foles today that I didn’t know yesterday. He failed to beat out Mike Vick for the QB job, and that doesn’t make me optimistic that he’s the QB of the future.

          • Dutch

            I don’t agree with that assessment. I think given time Foles is going to mature into a very reliable QB capable of making the throws necessary to be a weapon in the NFL.

            I always though, even when he was at Arizona he had the potential to come work and get better. I though it was/is a grave mistake to unleashed this kid within his first two seasons. I like how the fireworks are shaping up for the QB competition next year and the year after. I also based on what I’ve seen from Barkley believe the same about him and his chances in the NFL.

            There is little doubt this offense can accommodate both their talents. It’s just a mistake to throw every QB in the fire before they are ready. Foles may not be ready, but he’s not far off from being a reliable contributor

          • NickS1

            When did you start singing a different tune?

          • #7

            And it worked for both of them. Foles got better too

      • JofreyRice

        Well, he wasn’t better last year, he was pretty awful, and was benched by Reid & the org so they could evaluate Foles.

        Winning this QB competition fair and square doesn’t change history. Sheil mentions that reality above.

        I’ve said that Vick won the job and has played better numerous times. You’re seeing what you want to see.

        • #7

          We were waay out of contention sir. All teams play their younger players at that point and why wouldn’t they? Reid had every chance to bench Vick last year and he did not. True?

          • JofreyRice

            He did bench Vick. Vick got concussed, and Foles was inserted into the lineup. Reid announced that Foles would remain the starter for the rest of the season, after Vick recovered. Vick only came back intot he lineup after Foles’ hand was broken. That’s being benched.

            If you believe a guy is a franchise QB, you don’t put him on the bench, renegotiate his salary to half of what it was, and tell him he’s in an open competition, true?

            Vick was a turnover machine in ’12 and for a large part of ’11. You see the stat above, 24 int’s and 21 fumbles in his last 23. The hardcore Vick folks act like the guy is coming off an MVP campaign, and the rest of us are delusional to be skeptical of his abilities. Reality does not match up with that viewpoint.

          • #7

            Agree to disagree. I mean, why not see what Foles had after we’re out of contention? I see that you ignore the “out of contention” part.

            Also, why can;t you just focus on 2013? I don’t care about 2010, 2011, or 2012. You seem to dwell on that alot for someone who puts out all of these thoughtful posts yet at times they have excuses hidden in them.

            And see, I can still compliment you yet you get on me for “gloating”. It’s not gloating if its the truth.

            You mean to tell me that if Foles could have somehow beat Vick, it would be silence on here? You know who would get attacked the most on here?

            Me.

            I just stood up for what i believed in and it should not be an issue. You just tune in and watch. This is why it’s fun. We don’t know whats going to happen and that’s great

          • JofreyRice

            I ignored your point because I didn’t really think it was very convincing. We’re not talking about putting in a backup guard here, this is the QB position. When Carolina was “out of contention” they didn’t bench Cam Newton, right? How about San Diego with Rivers? How about Stafford in Detroit? Those guys were all far and away the clear choice to be the franchise QB in ’13, so the org/staff didn’t push to have their backups evaluated in ’12. Not so much with Vick.

            I can focus on ’13. In fact, my original post was saying that I like the dynamism Vick provides this offense. You questioned my caveat that the system suits Vick’s talents better than Foles, because you want some grand proclamation that Vick will be better than Foles anytime/anywhere/anyplace. My response was that in ’12, during the Reid regime’s deathwatch, he really wasn’t. I have always maintained that Vick has better arm-talent and mobility than Foles. He’s also seemed to get a sense for when to pull the trigger downfield, and to me, appears to be progressing through his reads, so it seems he’s grapsed Kelly’s system better.

            So it’s OK to be obnoxious in your self-satisfaction as a retaliation for things you imagine would have happened? I guarantee you that if someone was gloating about Foles being named the starter, I’d call them out for DB behavior, as well.

          • Media Mike

            I agree with where you’re going with the general point about Foles vs. Vick for the 2012 reasons you stated, but the guys who made that call aren’t here anymore, so I personally don’t use Andy’s logic to make the decision for Chip. I’d still rather see what Foles can or cannot do over a full season as the intended starter because I see Vick as a dead end, but I don’t think last year’s coaching decisions matter for what I’d like to see happen.

          • JofreyRice

            I guess my main problem with Foles is that you don’t see real “flashes” of anything, you just see a kind of middling competence. Even though statistically, McNabb was about even with Foles, you could just tell that we had something there. I guess for me, it comes down to the fact that I really never liked the way Foles threw the ball.

          • Media Mike

            I totally hear you on the importance of arm strength, but I did hear an interesting explanation about how Aaron Rodgers improved his arm strength while on the bench in Green Bay from Greg Cosell when he was on with Ross Tucker this spring on Sirius. Cosell stated that Foles had adequate arm strength while visiting camp this summer, so I tend to trust that view.

          • JofreyRice

            Yeah. Rodgers has his mechanics totally rebuilt while languishing behind Favre, is what I heard, as well. Coach Jeff Tedford, at California, teaches his guys a weird motion, that the GB staff basically had to tear down to the ground. I believe it was actually Mike McCarthy who worked with Rodgers, primarily? Who knows? Maybe he can improve.

          • Dutch

            What did you not see from Foles this year he had not shown you last year? He couldn’t read defenses and react to openings and tight windows on this level, nor could he make down field throws NFL QBs have to make to be competitive.

            Foles showed he was definitely a liability in handling the ball. There were consistencies some of you chose to ignore. Who he was, wasn’t good enough to lead a NFL attack. Even given a vastly improved Offensive Line to protect him, he still showed he’ll turn the ball over and hold on to long when openings were available down field.

          • #7

            You would have been gloating with them…in your own “thoughtful”..analytical way. Why are you so worried about how and what I post? You can play the “moderator” role all you want.

            That’s what you’re NOT. So if people wanted to gloat if Foles won, so be it. It is their right, as it is mine if I was gloating.

          • JofreyRice

            I just happen to find it in bad form, but you’re right, free country, free blog. But my hat’s off to you, take a bow, you’ve accomplished a lot! Chip Kelly’s decision about the starting QB, which he made not even aware of your existence, has proven you’re a winner.

            ::cue black eyed peas “I gotta Feeling”::

          • #7

            Only thing “accomplished” is that you and 90% of people on here had a piece of “Vick rising from the ashes again” pie. That’s all.

            I find it odd that you can come at me on my posts, yet I compliment you on your pro Foles posts or your semi-pro Vick posts.

            Your “analytical” and “thoughtful” persona on here is starting to look like what it truly is.

            A fraud.

            You can’t say that about me bro. I’ve been consistent with my posts.

            just the truth

          • JofreyRice

            Well, I do make a ton of pro-Foles posts! Thanks for the support! GO NICK FOLES! GO NICK FOLES!

            Sorry, I’m not going to be thoughtful about someone acting like a gloating dbag. It’s a community, right? The way a community deals with a member practicing negative behaviors is to notify that member. That’s what I’m doing. I don’t have to be a moderator to let you know my opinion.

          • Andy124

            Seriously, you don’t like Foles at all. I can vouch for you. :)

          • JofreyRice

            I’m giving you an analytical thanks for that.

          • Andy124

            I’ll have to think about that.

          • #7

            Namecalling eh? There you go JofreyRice. Show your true colors. Like I said before.

            Fraud.

            Pretending to be something else. you’re a master. Master flip flopper.

          • JofreyRice

            Did you gloat like this after Dallas wins, when you used to be a Cowboys fan? Thoughtful question.

          • Richard Colton

            more analytical than thoughtful

          • #7

            Dude I was 10 years old growing up in Oklahoma lol. Get your facts straight oh thoughtful one. Come harder than that lil lady.

            And to help you out some more, Dallas is the “local” team Oklahoma, which means, oh thoughtful one, that the Cowboys was shown on TV more mr. genius.

            I “discovered” Randall in 92 and was a fan since. Hard to catch Eagles games that much in Oklahoma.

            I was not raised in Philly. So freakin what lol.

          • Ron Mexico

            So you just moved last year?

          • JofreyRice

            The fact that you’re admitting you were a Cowboys fan is about as hard as I need to come. That’s really the ultimate lowest of the low. No excuse. You’re a single-topic poster that made a handle to worship Mike Vick, and you’re insinuating I’m a fraud?

          • #7

            Yes, you’re a fraud.

          • JofreyRice

            So which team where you planning to switch to if Vick hadn’t been brought back this year? Just wherever he went, or do you have a favorite team in every division?

          • #7

            Yes I do.

            Eagles, Eagles, Eagles,….and Eagles.

            You happy now?

          • JofreyRice

            I’m happy that I’ve diverted you from being d-baggy into trying to prove to me that you’re a real fan, Tex. You should thank me, this is free online therapy.

          • #7

            Prove to you…LOL

            Who the “freak” are you?

            A lame with 3 years old excuses, that’s what.

          • JofreyRice

            I guess I’m someone you’re trying to prove your fanhood to? Is this a trick question?

          • #7

            Ask yourself that

          • #7

            It’s funny how you conveniently miss where I give Foles his respect. Do you need me to post them for you? If you want to judge me from when I was a kid, I don’t give a ….

            You just make sure you’re tuned in when #7 runs out of that tunnel.

          • JofreyRice

            No it’s not that I missed it, I just don’t care. You seem to have a hard time grasping that I don’t think highly of Nick Foles, and really never have.

          • #7

            I. COULD. CARE. LESS.

            You came at me with the thought that you would correct me because I was “gloating”. Why couldn’t you just ignore my so called “gloating”? And who put you in control anyway? i can gloat all over this thing if that what I choose to do. You do what you want and I even COMPLIMENT you on your posts.

            Thats what makes this so bad, so that’s why I called you a fraud. That’s some fraud type behavior IMO.

            Then you come with some lame a… argument about past seasons. I know that is all that you have, but I thought you could do better than that. Lets focus on 2013. The eagles sucked as a team In 11 and 12. We all saw it. You claim that you’re not a Foles guy, or for any QB on the team. One thing I did notice, you give a sentence of respect to Vick, and alot more to Foles..smarts..pocket presence…all that stuff (Vick beat Foles in all of your mentioned areas)..for someone..on the flip side..you say is NOT your guy.lol. Whew..

            Your flip flopping is getting me dizzy

          • Richard Colton

            the fact that you feel entitled to continue this discussion after admitting that you were once a Cowboys fan, and that you only became a birds fan after seeing some RC highlights, tells us how clueless about the Eagles you are. No wonder you want Vick. After all, the Superbowl’s only one game. Sportscenter highlights last ALL WEEK!

          • NickS1

            This whole thing is priceless. I’m telling you, it’s Marcus…

          • #7

            Little girl nikki lol.

            Where ya been? You sure have been quiet the last couple of weeks…

          • NickS1

            Ah, Marcus. Mike took away your twitter handle and now your trolling blogs, wallowing in your own douchebaggery. I was on vacation. Not much time to keep up, unfortunately. However, you did reply to the post where I ate my words. I see you’re still on your childish rampage where you try to insult others by calling them female names. Some people never grow up.

          • #7

            Well how was I supposed to be a Birds fan Richard? Tell my parents to have me be born in Philly?

            Also, It’s not like the internet was big back then sir. I saw what I saw. Loved Jerome Brown, Clyde, Reggie, Seth, RIP to Andre Waters.

            I know the game and I know the history of the Eagles. If you don’t believe so, try me

          • Richard Colton

            Alright. I lived in Lawton, OK. The whole state is die-hard Cowboys. You should be a Cowboys fan. Then when people ask you why, you can say, because I’m from Oklahoma. No one will question why you’re wearing a 1992 Eagles starters jacket, but don’t know the difference between a Cheese Wit or Wit out.

          • Andy124

            That’s pretty funny.

          • JofreyRice

            OK, fair enough, I do have to COMPLIMENT you for admitting you’re a Cowboys fan. The more I think about it, it really is like going around the neighborhood you just moved into and telling people that you’re a registered sex offender. Now, you’re still the scum of the earth–lower than low–mind you, but it is still a difficult task to walk around and notify people of that fact. Kudos to you!

          • JofreyRice

            Baloney!

          • Andy124

            LOUD NOISES!

          • Richard Colton

            wait, you were really a Cowboys fan? So you went from Randall Cunningham…jumped ship when the team was bad…followed Emmitt Smith and the @#$%$# Cowboys…then back to Eagles when they got good again? WTF? I don’t know what to say. You’ve been exposed. That’s fraudulent, even by Cowboys standards.

          • JofreyRice

            It’s a sin, real talk. I can see this guy now, in his Cowboys starter pullover, talking about Jay Novacek. Disgraceful!

          • cliff henny

            #7 is confused…that ok in the NBA (10 bucks he’s a heat fan), NFL you pick a team and that’s it.

          • NickS1

            #7 was a Lakers fan before “the decision”

          • #7

            HA!! Here comes nicksaenz1 lol. Right on time

          • JofreyRice

            He’s a hardcore Yankees/Heat/Eagles/Cowboys/whoever won Hockey fan. DIEHARD SINCE ’11, BABY!

          • Richard Colton

            probably walked around telling people how he correctly predicted that Alvin Harper would win the #2 wide receiver battle

          • #7

            Jumped ship? When did I do that? It’s all good lol. i set myself up for this by being honest. I grew up in Oklahoma. Bring it on lol. I’m a big boy and I can take it. It’s funny because you have no valid argument now so now you pile on about something that has nothing to do with this blog lol

            One thing I do now.

            Your guy is the backup.

          • JofreyRice

            Poppycock!

          • Dutch

            Wow……. that is a serious charge!

            I heard a guy say once he Hates the Cowboys so much he refuses to fly over Texas. It’s been 25 years since my last fly over of Texas.

          • Richard Colton

            What do you think a Cowboys fan from Dallas would say if he found out a fellow fan of “America’s Team” switched loyalties to the Eagles?
            Benedict Arnold/John Walker Lindh/#7

          • Token

            How did he rise from the ashes? What exactly has he really accomplished this season? The real games havent started.

            Its impossible to have a conversation with someone who doesnt even care about the football being played. You care solely about one man on the team. So yes, I guess that makes you consistent.

          • #7

            Well let me explain.

            90% of you on here (yourself included) said Vick was washed up. That’s what I mean by “rose from the ashes” because a lot of people buried him. Simple
            as that.

            I get a lot of grief on here about my support for Vick as my team’s starter. I’ll also tell you why.

            Regardless of what you and so I thought was thoughtful, JofreyRice, Richard, Adam, nicksaenz1 thinks. Vick fits what I’ve always thought the city of Philadelphia was about.

            They want a player that’s tough, has heart

          • Dutch

            That’s exactly what happen, lets see what this kid has. If the Eagles were looking to win games, Trent Edwards who also has a brilliant preSeason should have been the relieving QB. But it would have equally been disrespectful to ask Trent Edwards to go in behind that Offensive Line and finish a loss season once Vick was concussed.

            Andy Reid has never presented himself to be the kind of coach to just throw his player into the wind.

            Foles, like the succession of QBs Andy Reid selected before him just didn’t have what it takes to be a quality starting NFL QB. There is no need to minimize the efforts of a 4 time pro bowl QB behind a Junior Varsity Offensive Line. The kid never had a chance to dethrone Mike Vick in a fair and equal competition and it turned out as forecasted by scouts and pundits across America.

            This discussion should be shifting towards the holes in that defense and capable linebackers to get through this season and maybe bringing in another receiver to get some activity from.

          • Dutch

            However, Vick was never cleared by the independent specialist to return from his concussion until Dec 13 on a thursday the night the Eagles played the Bengals. There were 2 games remaining on the schedule, the Redskins on the 23 and the final game against the Giants.

            That’s not being benched that’s being forced into a decision by the medical rules of the game.

            Vick missed a month with that concussion and it made no sense and would have been disrespectful to throw a seasoned veteran back into action with two games to play for a team going nowhere.

            Personally I don’t think it’s scheme more than it’s the efforts of the Offensive Line to
            provide Vick and Foles protections, and as we’ve seen with Foles, added protection for Foles did not provide results different than playing behind the 2012 Eagles offensive line. Foles still was slow and could not see the field or proved capable of making accurate throws down field.

          • JofreyRice

            He was cleared. He understood he was being benched.

            http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2012/12/michael_vick_on_being_benched.html

            Yeah, the protection helps a lot, but in any offense where the threat of the QB running is key to making the offense work, Vick is going to have the upper hand on Foles. In addition to that, it certainly looks like he’s reading the field, and has a sense for when he’s got to take chances and chuck it. He’s been better than Foles in every way in this offense.

          • Dutch

            The back and forth about the QBs is interesting, however, the focus has to, in my mind shift to other positions on this team. I like what I’m seeing from the line, but this is where vanilla defenses can fool you. If Lane Johnson holds up and plays just decent ball, not lights out the Eagles are going to be good. We can always reel in Vick by keeping the ball on the ground and we have a stable of reliable backs to feed over the season.

            I do have a concern about receivers, but I believe in this offense so long as we remain discipline Riley Cooper and Clay Harbor are going to surprise with good performances that we can count on in tight situations. Sometimes it’s going to look like we are figured out and I hope we show the patients to keep fighting and wear down our opponents. Overall so long as we can dominate the LOS we will always be in good shape even when it looks like we aren’t.

          • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

            “Overall so long as we can dominate the LOS we will always be in good shape even when it looks like we aren’t.”

            That’s the key to this year more than anything. That’s also how you beat Kelly’s offense. So here’s hoping the O-Line is as good as I think they can be.

          • Warhound

            People have patience.
            Doctors have patients.

      • defroe81

        he was better than foles and that is why he won the competition he won it fair and square time to get over your dislikes of vick and root for the man that is leading the team i know i am. new year new coach new system a new start for vick. thats how i see it and i am a vick hater but whats in the past is in the past now and he earned his spot and proved to be the better player this year in the PS so far. lets go birds!!!!

    • Anon

      I think Chip knew he didn’t have the franchise QB in philly, he also hadn’t worked with either Vick or Foles in his system. He was familiar w/ MB and he was largely considered a steal. MB is a character guy, who makes quick decisions i think that’s what CK was looking for in a QB. He bought MB into compete, but it’s obvious that he needs work. Worst case, coach him up and trade him. But it’s a 4th rd pick on what many thought was a first round talent.

      • JofreyRice

        eh…they should have brought him in as a coaching intern or something. To me, he’s about as polished as he can get, after 8 years of starting in NFL-feeder programs. I just can’t see him as an NFL QB, ever. Guy makes Colt McCoy look like John Elway. But hey, I’ve been wrong plenty.

        • Adam

          Yeah, it’s kind of disappointing that we spent a 3rd round pick last year, and a 4th round pick this year on 2 QB’s who will hopefully be replaced by a 1st rounder next year.

          • Richard Colton

            I’m ok with a 4th round gamble. especially since picks 1-3 look like they belong so far.

  • Richard Colton

    “If Kelly thought there was a good chance he (Foles) could be the QB of the future, he would have named him the starter” – SK

    Yep. that’s why we’re looking at a one year placeholder at QB. I won’t even waste time with the “this is the year Mike Vick finally…” dreamworld arguments, because we know who Mike is. Just hoping that the offense is heavy on Shady & Brown and that the system can minimize some of his errors, while still allowing MV to make a few of his trademark amazing plays.

    • guest1

      Fun new season, coach, etc….and this is what you engage in…what a shame!

    • B-West

      That’s exactly what we need. Vick is the best QB out of the middling group we have on the roster right now. With any of the QBs this year, the key was always going to be minimizing their effect on the game. That starts with a strong running game, and hopefully some play design that takes pressure off the QB.

      If this team is relying on the QB to make plays, we’ve been sunk since the jump. QB play was always Reid’s plan A, with little other options. It seems Chip’s approach will be much different, which offers hope despite the current state of the Eagles QB position.

  • ACViking

    Re: Future QB

    “Next year’s draft is loaded with quarterbacks.”

    Just like Barkley was one of those “loaded” QBs in 2011.

    Moreover, the Eagles who — just by the law of averages — will be much improved will probably be drafting somewhere in the middle of the pack.

    The best QBs go early . . . like in picks 1-5.

    SK — you’re better than just saying, “Oh, there’s lots of QBs next year and suggesting the Eagles will have their choice of one of the ELITES.” C’mon!

    • JofreyRice

      So you trade up, if you decide you really need one of them. Of course you don’t know how the season is going to shake out in CFB, but as far as projections go, you’d rather have a situation like this, where you have guys like Miami’s Stephen Morris, Oregon’s Mariota, SJSU’s Fales, Clemson’s Boyd, and UCLA’s Hundley as all guys that have been discussed as possible first rounders, alongside the top guy, Bridgewater. Quite a few of those guys are multi-dimensional in the way they pressure a defense, and seem like they’d be a good fit for Chip.

      Some may rise, some may fall, but I doubt we’re going to see anything like this year’s lack of QB talent for awhile.

      • Phils Goodman

        No use crying over (hypothetical) spilt milk, but I am still regretting that they never got the chance to draft EJ Manuel in the late 1st/early 2nd. He would be really nice as a QB to groom behind Vick for one year.

        • Media Mike

          You 100% don’t want EJ. He’s already injured and was brutal at FSU. If none of these guys work you want a guy like Bridgewater.

          • Phils Goodman

            >EJ was brutal at FSU

            Uh, no.

            EJ is a smart decision-maker with great physical attributes. But yeah, now I wouldn’t want him anymore because he’ll be out for two weeks with a minor injury.

            Bridgewater is a pipe-dream. We’ll never be worse than Oakland or Jacksonville, and with the #1 and #2 overall picks projecting to be mega-prospects those selections should be locked down.

          • Media Mike
          • cliff henny

            i’m happy we didnt take either EJ or Smith. had myself talked into Manuel in 2nd not being the worst pick ever, never wanted any part of smith, and think jets are figuring that out already (came into camp out of shape and hurt already). figured once those 2 were off the board, meant the qb decision was going to be ’14 issue.

          • Phils Goodman

            Oh wow, another blogger called EJ Manuel an overrated potential bust and questioned his accuracy. Game-changer!

            Listen man, you don’t have to familiarize me with criticisms from Manuel’s detractors. The statement that Manuel was “brutal” at FSU is irrational hyperbole that isn’t backed up by any objective data.

            The charting stats on EJ showed good-to-great accuracy in almost every zone, his measurables were outstanding, character reports were unanimously glowing (even from Nolan Nawrocki), he passed the eye test for me and there were at least enough pro scouts of the same mind that he was invited to Radio City for Day One of the draft.

            http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/08/ej-manuel-statistical-scouting-report/

          • Media Mike
          • Adam

            We’ll never be worse than Jacksonville or Oakland? Another Negaldelphia fan over here.

        • JofreyRice

          eh, you know my thoughts on him. I’m still not into him. Good on you for projecting him as the #2 QB in the entire draft at a time when most people thought he was a 4th rounder. Turned out to be the first guy off the board!

          I’ll take Miami’s Stephen Morris any day. Also really curious to see what happens with Mariota. I think it’s plausible that his play (and stock) decline a little with Kelly’s departure. Could become a guy that Chip can scoop in the mid first and pick up where he left off.

          • Phils Goodman

            [I have no idea why disqus keeps jumbling my posts]

          • OregonEagle

            Or, Mariota’s stock could go up since the new OC is a little more pass oriented and Oregon has the best set of receivers that it has had in years.

          • Phils Goodman

            You have to understand that subsequent events only serve to make me more rueful.

            I agree with you that there is hope that a worthy QB prospect will be there in the mid-1st. It’s happened before. Flacco, Roethlisberger… Manuel (heh).

        • Anon

          You’d take that over LJ? I think no way. Yeah he looks good now, in pre-season, but QB is only as good as the o-line. We have a great o-line now w/ a day 1 starter. It takes a lot of pressure off of anyone else that we bring in.

          • Phils Goodman

            No, “late 1st/early 2nd.” At draft time I was hopeful that he would fall to #35 or that the #35 could be packaged to move up some to get him.

      • cliff henny

        exactly. plus, seeing how much better vick is playing in this system as opposed to Reid’s, confirms (for now-i know it’s only 2 ps games) kelly’s success in grooming qbs at college level. just something in this offense that lets qbs perform at or near their best. plus, howie is drafting better, have to hope we pick correct guy as future qb. think we both would have loved foles to out perform vick, grab the qb competition y the throat and tom brady us for next 15 yrs, but foles just isnt screaming elite qb to me. competent backup, which is great, most teams need those.

        • JofreyRice

          Actually, I was always pretty skeptical of Foles. I have a hard time with guys where I don’t buy into their arm talent. Foles made very few NFL throws, IMO. I like his composure in the pocket, and believe it or not, I love the way he throws on the run, but his deep ball sucked, and his intermediate passes lacked zip and were sometimes scattershot. I had hopes he could improve, but that doesn’t look like that happened.

          • cliff henny

            agree. why i dont get the ‘see what we have in foles’ arguement. it’s not like he jumps off the field like a luck, rg3 kaep wilson or newton even (imagine what kelly could do w/ Cam). i just never saw top tier nfl qb in his play. always believed based off of his and vick’s ’12play, he deserved a shot. that arm strength is just a huge issue.
            .
            what i meant by wanting foles as future qb, is…that’s what we all want, long term elite qb. i really dont care who, i just want one.

          • Media Mike

            Kelly would murder Cam for slow reads. Kelly is on record saying that the #1 trait he wants in a QB is a quick read with an accurate delivery. 0 for 2 for Scam Newton in that department.

          • cliff henny

            kelly seems like a heck of a teacher…and that’s a boatload of natural talent.

          • Media Mike

            I don’t think you can coach away dumb. I’d have killed to have seen McNabb with this o-line and skill group with Kelly’s coaching however.

          • cliff henny

            cam isnt dumb, annoying and arrogant, yes. and off the scale athletic. he’s been coddled and hasnt rec’d much coaching so far. basically little like randall and buddy…just make some plays.

          • Media Mike

            We’ll see what Cam does this year, but I have a feeling we’ll be spending another year wondering how all of those passing yards never translated to more TD passes and more wins.

          • BlindChow

            You can’t throw passing TD’s when you’re busy running it in. As for wins: Sean McDermott.

          • #7

            Can’t argue with that. As much as i hate to say it, there has to be concern with Cam down the in Carolina, especially with no weapons to throw too

      • ike kelley

        You mean trade up by swapping picks with a team that needs a franchise QB?

        Yeah, I see that happening.

  • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

    The one thing neither QB had to deal with much, in TC and PS, was true pressure and hits. It was hard to say if the OL is really playing that well and/or scheme helps shield the QB with quick throws; or, if the vanilla defenses played into the good output.
    I just hope Vick still does well against his two nemeses: pressure off the edge and through the gap, and the perpetual calling of the trainer’s room.

    • Anon

      Foles had 2 pressure based turnovers — under “vanilla pressure” maybe Chip had the same thoughts. What will Foles look like with true pressure (let’s not forget he had his fair share of TOs last year as well).

    • Adam

      If he doesn’t learn to slide properly it’s not a matter of if he gets put out, it’s when. He took 2 hits “sliding” against Carolina and the 2nd one he came up slow. If Vick is truly a new man this needs to be his top priority.

      • Richard Colton

        i’d prefer we drop any pretext of his learning to slide in year 14. Every coach he’s ever had, and the President of the United States, has tried to get him to slide and play within the offense. let’s just accept that he won’t.

        • Adam

          Oh yeah, I have zero faith he’ll ever do it.

          • cliff henny

            right..drives me nuts! at this point, just hoping he gets down before contact. he can (prefer sliding) dive head first if he would just do it while defenders are still couple steps away a la self tacklin jeremy macklin. refs will blow the play dead. he just runs into too many hits.

  • southy

    CK said he’d start the guy that played better. Both played well, but Vick did play better. I like that CK stays true to his word and doesn’t waffle or just clam up.

    Lets hope both QBs continue their level of play into the regular season, cuz we’re gonna need em both!

  • #7

    I see all of these posts about where we could fall in the draft. Well get ready to be disappointed. If we can get something (turnovers, bend but don’t break) from the defenses, we’ll be drafting low.

    Do I think that Vick a a good/great QB? Yes. My main reason for me wanting him to start is that I think we have talent on offense to win now and why not win now?

    I don’t even watch college football. All you see is QBs like Foles playing like the’re really great until they get to the NFL. There MIGHT be two special QBs in each draft, if that.

    Our talent on offense does not say that we’re a 1-15 team. Sorry. You can bash me all you want, but I bet the players don’t think they’re a 1-15 team either

    • Richard Colton

      you should be. GA and GA Tec football is huge in your area.

      and no, we don’t have enough talent to win this year. we don’t. and asking the players accomplishes what? you would get the same answer as last year.

      • #7

        Thanks for your advice Richard

        • Richard Colton

          don’t give up that easy. I lived in Western GA for a bit. Great college sports area, terrible pro-sports area. I’ll be cheering for MV7 to light it up in all 16 games – but I know he isn’t out SB QB, so its hard for me to get really excited.

          • #7

            Not giving up at all lol. just don’t want to argue man. I just hate that you can’t support the team because your QB Foles got beat.

            And I just don’t like college football man.

          • Richard Colton

            if pretending that foles was my guy makes you feel better, keep on doing it. you know my guy was “not-vick”

          • EaglePete

            me neither, cant stand it. I never understood the joy of the voting system or winning a meaningless bowl game. Now with a playoff down the road (although need more teams in it) it could get much better.

          • #7

            Yep

  • Media Mike

    Well stated. I still believe Vick represents a dead end, but I find the reasoning laid out here to be sound. I was surprised Vick played as well as he did in the pre-season, but he did win the job. I’ll hold firm to my belief, as supported by the years 2001-2012, that Vick will revert to turnover central and miss games due to injuries.

    • #7

      You have every right to do so

    • guest1

      Possibly…but you’re not Nostradamus…let’s wait and see

      • Media Mike

        This really boils down to what you think the Vikings game in 2010 meant.

  • #7

    Now this is just wrong. Like i said, Foles earned respect and he earned the backup job, but traded? I don’t think that should happen unless we could send out Nate Allen with him

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Eagles_should_trade_Nick_Foles.html

    • Media Mike

      Trading Foles, unless they expect a high quality veteran backup to fall into their laps, is stupid. Vick is starting because they valued winning now over holding 2014 and beyond tryouts. My own disagreement with that decision aside, why would they turn around and trade Foles to give probable starting snaps when Vick misses time to Barkley, Dixon, or Kinne?

      • Anon

        More importantly mobile QBs get hurt. We trade foles (for what?) and have no backup. We won’t be able to trade him this year (everyone has a QB) or next year (teams that need a QB are def. looking at the draft). Way better staying here, mastering the system — trying to do his best Aaron Rogers impression.

        • Media Mike

          Agreed. Then your only hope is to turn around and trade for a vet on a buried team if Vick goes down after Foles is traded. That 100% doesn’t fit with Kelly playing to max out this year’s win total at all costs.

      • Mr. Wu

        depends on the trade…but I am not sure we would get enough to warrant trading the best backup we have

        • Dutch

          I agree, I don’t see a reason to even entertain a discussion about a possible trade of either Barkley or Foles. I enjoyed everything except the bonehead turnover from all the QBs this preseason. And wish Barkley had gotten more reps with the second and first team to accurately evaluate him, but I like what he showed. He can place the ball, showed good anticipation and a general command of the offense.

  • DunedinEagle

    “The players still look up to Vick and believe in him, despite his struggles the past two seasons. He steps up amid controversy (the Riley Cooper situation). He leads the on-field huddle before games. And he’s the “big brother” in the locker room.”

    This makes me want to throw up. I still hate this team as constructed.

    • Media Mike

      See, I HATE Vick’s game, but none of this bothers me. Vick has really done everything the right way off of the field and in the locker room since becoming an Eagle. If management didn’t want to put Vick in a position to continue to do all of the leading that a lot of us don’t want, they should have cut him in February.

      • DunedinEagle

        I can’t remember the last time I had faith in Eagles management. That said I can’t pull for a team led by Vick with a bunch of Vick deciples as the X’s and O’s. Starting Vick is a total waste of time. Best case scenario he leads them to 1-15 and a number one pick and that isn’t going to happen as Chip would pull the plug and Foles would win a few games. Worst case scenario Vick leads them to a playoff birth and first round exit and the mediocrity or worse yet continues.

        • Token

          I remember last year looking forward to a new era of Eagles football. New staff, no more Vick.

          But meet the new boss…….

          This team right now has no future. No hope of success. They need to hit on a real legit QB next year. Nothing has really changed, even with all the changes.

          We are coming up on 10 years since this team last has a legitimate shot at the title. And they just keep on making the same mistakes. Vick should have been gone when Reid was gone.

          • DunedinEagle

            Meet the new boss! SAME AS THE OLD BOSS!! There’s a song there somewhere…Anyway I know it will feel the same for me this year as the last two seasons. I will laugh when Vick gets sacked, fumbles, drops the ball and slides head first. On defense more than likely watch the secondary get shredded to pieces once again. I will continue to root for losses in order to have the necessary changes made to give me any glimmer of hope of a championship in my lifetime.

  • BrettConnolly

    Hey Sheil, I have been your longest fan since MTC. Followed you here, and have never been disappointed by a single word you’ve ever written. Your level headed approach based on demonstrative evidence is the perfect compliment to the most rabid, passionate fan base in the NFL, and we’re lucky to have a site like 24/7 which is the class of the reporting world. However, I believe you may have had your account hacked because your comment about Barkley’s chances of success based on being the 100th pick is so unlike anything I’ve ever seen you write. Please don’t put the cart before the horse.

    • Media Mike

      And we still need to tell Skins fans that Barkley 100% would have been the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft if he would have entered it! Just like Matt told everybody! Kiss it Skins!

    • sdk152

      Hey Brett… the point was simply that having Barkley on the roster has no impact on whether they draft a QB early next year. Could he surprise? Sure. If that happens, great. But history suggests it’s very unlikely. “Worst-” case scenario, you end up with two QBs who can play, and you deal one of them.

      Of course, that’s getting way ahead of ourselves.

      Thanks for your kind words. -SK

      • BrettConnolly

        Thanks for the reply, though I still respectfully (as well as playfully) disagree. I respect your football mind very much, but I think you do not draft a player at 100, a player who you go on record stating you had as a “top 50″ player in this year’s draft and just hope they can surprise. If/when Barkeley succeeds at this level, I just don’t think it would be a surprise for the coaching staff who drafted him with what essentially amounted to a 3rd rd pick. Barkeley could just has easily have been an additional 3rd rd pick for these Eagles, if not for the fact that no one was willing to move back. Something to keep in mind. While I don’t think it eliminates the possibility of Birds going high in next year’s draft for a quarterback, they certainly aren’t just taking a flier on #2 and hoping he ain’t a bum, something that I think is alluded to in your phrasing. Keep in mind also that Bennie Logan has impressed everybody so far in camp, and I think has really stood out as being possibly an exceptional player. He was their other third rd pick. Now, if the Birds had swung and missed or picked up a player who could be described as a “role player” with their other 3rd, it’d be easier to say, well, they weren’t significantly impressed with Barkley enough to take him ahead of X or Y who clearly project to “role player status,” but that’s not really the case. They seem to have gotten excellent value out of their top 3, and I don’t really think Barkley’s a player that they simply hope surprises. Just one man’s view.

        • EaglePete

          I agree with Sheil here and he hasnt looked great so far. But yes its way early. I think hes referring to some stats about the likely success of players drafted outside the 1st round succeeding in being good QBs at this level. From that perspective its a real shot in the dark. This is the QB position only though so Logan means little.

          • BrettConnolly

            Yeah, and he’s also 22 years old and has exactly 2 quarters of preseason action under his belt so far. He’s shown exceptional football aptitude, he is imminently coachable, clearly very driven, self-motivated and possesses great leadership. The whole point is that you shouldn’t have an opinion on Matt Barkley because you haven’t seen anything that can reliably inform an authoritative opinion. If you want to say he won’t succeed, by all means, go right ahead. You could be right. To me, it’s a baseless argument. The same coaching staff that everybody is so enamored with called him a Top 50 player in this year’s draft, tried to snag him in the 3rd, not to mention had plenty of opportunity to scout him in the PAC-12. You want to claim to have the crystal ball on Matt Barkley’s NFL future? Fine, but I just can’t credibly support your statement, and I don’t think you can credibly support it either. If it makes so much sense for them to take this approach next year, why avoid taking that approach this year by resigning Vick and setting up a great competition in camp where “this wasn’t a case of one goes north, and one guy goes south,” as CK put it, but both QBs stepped up and took their games to new levels. I really, really, really disagree with baseless judgments on #2′s NFL future – not because I think he’ll be a star, but because I don’t know, and neither do you. The people who are paid to know coach the team, manage the roster and drafted him, so for now, I’ll defer judgement. peace.

          • EaglePete

            Matt is that you? Here is a great read on the statistics behind those thoughts. Its not simply an opinion, its backed by some history. Same goes for Foles.

            http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Eagles-should-pass-on-drafting-a-QB.html

          • BrettConnolly

            Ok, I’m on board with some of what you’re saying, I’m just saying we have to trust a guy who called Barkley a top 50 player in this year’s draft. Last year both Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick emerged from the “2nd-tier” of QBs which this article advised to avoid, and those teams won 4 more playoff games than the teams who selected QB’s named Luck or Griffiniii. So there’s merit to both of our arguments. So far this off season, we’ve had nothing but reasons to trust the vision of this front office and coaching staff, from securing Tom Gamble to allowing a QB competition to emerge and elevate the games of both players. Why suddenly call their judgement into question? Chip has coached against Barkley for years. He called him a top-50 player. Why split hairs here? They expect Matt will be an NFL caliber QB, someone who can operate the offense, execute the game plan and most importantly win games. The Eagles actions don’t indicate that they’re hoping Barkley can “surprise.” They’re clearly expecting him to succeed. How can we sit here and come to any other conclusions based on watching two quarters of preseason action? “I think we have two, three quarterbacks, really, who can lead this offense and be successful.” – Chip Kelly. Pretty sure his track record, not to mention warranting two picks in this year’s draft including what would have been a 3rd rd selection had we been able to move back up, is enough to show that they’re not taking a flier on #2.

          • EaglePete

            Trust me, I hope I am way wrong here, Ill be the first guy rooting for Barkley to succeed. That article really changed my opinion of QBs drafted later. You always heard about the exceptions but when you see the list of names its not very encouraging. Great points about last seasons draft and QBs but that might again be an exception in terms of how deep that draft was. Im with you on letting it play out hence my initial “way early” to judge comment.

    • Phils Goodman

      I believe you may have had your account hacked because your comment about Barkley’s chances of success based on being the 100th pick is so unlike anything I’ve ever seen you write

      Disagree with you there. The data backs Sheil up on this, especially for multi-year starters over 6′ tall coming out of major programs. Teams don’t make a habit of letting these guys slip into the 4th round if they’ve got the goods.

      • BrettConnolly

        For all intents and purposes, as far as the Eagles board is concerned, #2 is a 3rd round QB. They may have gotten an opportunity to select him at the top of round 4, but his third round grade was significant enough for them to want to jettison picks just to move back into round 3 to select him. CK had just coached against him for four years, so it’s safe to say they had done some homework on him, and expect him to succeed. In instances like these, as well-informed as we as commenters on an NFL blog generally are, I will defer to the team’s current leadership, and I have no reason to think that they would be “surprised” if #2 tore it up once he adjusts to this level. All I’m sayin. peace.

        • Phils Goodman

          The team passed on him in the 3rd round for Bennie Logan. This guy didn’t fall to the 4th round because there’s a good chance he’ll be a franchise QB.

          • BrettConnolly

            I recognize that. I recognize that they had graded Logan higher, perhaps significantly higher, it really is a moot point.

            If we have learned nothing from Chip Kelly so far, it’s that proper conditioning, attention to detail, open communication, focus of attack, mental preparation and the will to win are how he evaluates player potential translating to *team* success on the field. These qualities are the equalizers that bring dedicated, football-lifers up to par and surpass those born with the combination of talent/arm strength/height/speed to be labeled “franchise quarterback,” or “first round material” by a few scouting departments. I’m going to side with Chip Kelly on this one. “We play the way we practice,” and “when you get into the game, you are used to such a high pace that the game slows down.” You think he doubts #2′s ability to run the offense at a high level? “I think we have two QBs, really three QBs, who can run this offense at a high level.”

          • Phils Goodman

            Bennie Logan projects to be a solid role-player on the interior DL.

            It’s not moot, because he’s one of almost 100 players that all 32 teams wanted more than Barkley.

          • BrettConnolly

            Your argument is still based on the pro-bowl potential for any random 4th round choice being generally lower, and certainly lower than for players taken in the top 20. I didn’t draft #2! Chip Kelly and the front office did! I have not yet once known CK to say anything but the dead-honest truth. “I think we have three quarterbacks who can run this offense at a high level.” I’m sure that’s actually what he feels. I don’t see any reason to doubt him, not now, and certainly not simply because we were able to scoop Barkley up at the top of round 4. We’ll see.

          • Phils Goodman

            I’m not making any sense out of your posts.

            >The chances of a fourth-round pick eventually becoming a top-end starter is unlikely.

            That’s true.

          • BrettConnolly

            200+ players get drafted every year. Top end starters at the QB position, you can count on two hands. The chances of ANY pick becoming an Aaron Rodgers regardless of round is certainly FAR from likely. That being said, I like to formulate my own opinions. It’s a dying trade. So far my opinion on Matt Barkley is non-existent simply because there has been nothing of note on which to form it except for the fact that he is the first person in the complex every day, and he wants to work hard and succeed. There is simply no way to project Barkley’s starting potential without more time to evaluate. My guess is that Chip Kelly is comfortable letting him get acclimated to the league rather than assuming they’ve thrown the towel in on him. This coaching staff has done nothing but impress everyone, and they clearly have confidence in Barkley. Their confidence in Barkley really has *zero* to do with what round he was drafted in. Their confidence has to do with exploiting what #2 is best at and using that confidence to score points. *That* is true. Coaches don’t care what round you were selected. This isn’t fantasy. They want to know, are you willing to work? Are you willing to listen? Do you want to get better? etc. I’m not in the NovaCare building, but writing him off seems pre-mature, unwarranted and completely lazy. Congratulations Negadelphia! I for one support Chip Kelly saying, “let it play itself out.” Then, and only then, can we determine what kind of NFL QB #2 was, is, or could be. In time, it will have nothing to do with how many teams passed him in the draft, and everything to do with how he executed what was asked of him. Period.

  • TVC

    I am imagining what might happen if defense shows up.

    • Media Mike

      Easy John Lennon. We still are missing about 6 or 7 starters (NT, DE, SS, FS, 2 -CBs, maybe OLB if you don’t think Graham will cut it) from what a good D would look like. Spooky, DE of the day, Chung, 2nd safety, Fletcher, and Williams are really depth players.

      • cliff henny

        and that’s at 100% healthy. could get ugly in a hurry if injuries start piling up

  • Adam

    What’s Vegas got for the over/under on starts for Vick this year?

    • Media Mike

      I said in the last post the Eric Berry is going to get him on a blitz week 3.

  • Shark

    This was a phenomenal article. Specifically point 3.

  • Dark

    Drew Brees is 34 -1/15/79;
    Tony Romo- 33 4/21/80;
    Tom Brady- 36 -8/3/77;
    Peyton Manning -37 -3/24/76
    Stop It with the Age thing. Also Missed 2 seasons, so his body is 2 years younger than that.. If Vick has a Big year and the Eagles go far we should resign him. Age is only a factor when the arm dies.

    • GoBirds1

      Except for Homo all of the QBs you cited are SB winning HOF QBs none of which run very often and when they do they never dive head first. Vick on the other hand…BTW Vick will never be in the HOF conversation.

  • Scott J610

    Vick needs to learn the Read Option Slide or he’ll be knocked out by week 3.

  • GoBirds1

    What Vick and Vick supporters do not seem to accept is part of his responsibility as QB is to be able to play every Sunday. Diving head first every time he runs flies in the face of this responsibility. There are specific NFL rules that protect QBs from injury both I’m the pocket and when they choos to run. Unfortunately, those rules do not apply when you lead with your head as you go down. Please provide me with one rational reason why Vick cannot or will not slide feet first. It is not that hard. I will wager a large sum of money that is Vick spent just one day practicing and did it 1000 times he would have no problem doing it in a game. Now that Chippah picked his guy, it is now his responsibility to make him change. GoBirds!

  • #7

    lol

  • EaglePete

    yes you guys are, those pom poms must be heavy

  • #7

    Truth hurts? It must

  • ReggieKush

    You mad bro?

  • EaglePete

    No…okay a little but I’ll venture to guess it might hurt more for you guys come mid season.

  • #7

    More predictions, eh? Like you predicted Foles to win the job? How’d that work out?

  • EaglePete

    always need to get the last work in, Ill give you credit, youre relentless. I never predicted, just rooted. We can keep going?

  • #7

    You are now free to debate with others. I release you.