Today in Overblown Listings Copy: the Reading Viaduct = the NY Highline

The listings copy for what seems to be a perfectly nice two-bedroom, bi-level Callowhill loft reads:

Remarks: Walk to Lift Cafe and Prohibition Taproom or walk Philly’s version of the Highline called the Reading Viaduct!

Philly’s version of the Highline? The whole problem is that Philly doesn’t have a version of the Highline. And the Reading Viaduct is far, far, far from anything like the Highline.

To wit…

First we have the New York Highline in a photo taken by Nicholas Noyes:

new-york-highline

Photo by Nicholas Noyes via Flickr.

And then we have the Reading Viaduct in a photo from PlanPhilly EyesOnTheStreet:

Photo by Eyes on the Street/Plan Philly via Flickr.

Photo by Eyes on the Street/Plan Philly via Flickr.

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  • Steve

    Well, I just had a nice walk through the lobby of Philly’s version of One World Trade Center called The Comcast Center.

  • Steve

    Well, I just had a nice walk through the lobby of Philly’s version of One World Trade Center called The Comcast Center.

    • Liz Spikol

      Good one!

  • Jack Cotter

    Mmm that just screams tetanus

  • Jack Cotter

    Mmm that just screams tetanus

  • Dutch

    Maclin is a pretty savvy guy. 25, coming into this final year with respectable stats. His best option may be to play out his deal and begin to look for suitors in a more committed passing attack. He would do well with Andrew Luck with the Colts or out in San Diego with Phillip Rivers where he has a steady QB situation in,an Offense suited to his skill level. This is not the best of times in Philly for a receiver to renegotiate considering the offense Kelly is noted for running.

    Maclin could do well going home to the Kansas City Chiefs with Andy Reid and Axel Smith. He has better options and a brighter outlook than resigning with the Eagles.

  • UKEagle99

    DeSean should have renamed the Rap ‘Losing Season on my Neck’ and released it on his 4-12 label.

    I hope we have more positive things to talk about DeSean in the coming months.

  • cliff henny

    it’s going to take a game or 2 to get used to the Eagles being a power run team. just cant wait for a 12 play td drive that 11 runs, picking up couple 3rd and 1′s with ease.

    • nicksaenz1

      all while eating 8 minutes from the clock.

      • cliff henny

        guess it depends on quarter and score. heck,12 plays might take 2-3mins in 1st. make sure beer is fresh and chip bowl is full, no snack breaks when eagles are on offense

        • Andy124

          DVR – pause live TV for more beer. Skip through commercials. It’s glorious.

          • cliff henny

            could be lazy like me, i pack a beach cooler and put it next to me. solved that huge hassle of walking all the way to fridge

        • nicksaenz1

          It was more wishful thinking than anything.

      • JBrooks

        Not saying that the offense will be as dominant as Oregon was but Coach Kelly didn’t have many 8 minute drives. Either way I am with you guys, it will be a breath of fresh air to see the Eagles run the ball with some conviction. McCoy is going to be a beast in this system!

  • since1961

    So it seems

  • Dasdip

    I just had that exact same thought. Then scrolled down to see it at the top of the comments. This team is going to need talented safety play, and I’m just not buying it.

  • poetx99

    out of all of the places he’s been and all of the schemes he’s been in, this is the one he deems worthy of implementing now that he is running the show. what’s wrong with that?

    i’d be more concerned if he was hearkening back to something that has been discredited or antiquated.

    would it give you more confidence to think of him implementing a scheme which has only been run in AZ? or a scheme with a multiple super bowl pedigree and architects and disciples held in esteem throughout the league to this day?

  • Dutch

    You know what I see developing, I see ends and OLBs being slowed in their rush. If that occurs athletic tackles will be able to get better angles on rushers.

    Decreasing the speed of rushing Linebackers and Ends for an instance opens your passing game providing at the very least .05 to 1.0 secs. The defense of the option will require a pick your poison solution with great press corners that can’t look for help over the top. Or monster tackles in the likes of Atkins and Fletcher.

    • Corry

      I think you’re going to see the monster defensive players. Sure they’re not common place, but teams are definitely going to be on the look out for them.

      The best part of football is the constant evolution of the game and the move/counter-move nature of it.

      Anyways, I think I’ve spent enough time defending my position. Thank you for the discussion.

  • Engwrite

    I agree. I tend to think that 2013 will see a lot of high scoring games which we will win or lose depending on the numbers of possessions. The Eagles defense is unsettled in terms of scheme and personnel so 2013 will serve to weed out players and identify needs. My concern is two fold: Davis hasn’t been successful in the past (which I have read can be attributed to following his predecessor’s systems) and (2) this article implies he is using the basic Steeler D as a template. In other words, he may be where LeBeau was at the outset. The hope is that he will progress quickly and by 2014, with an infusion of personnel and one year experience on ‘his’ brand of D, the Eagles D will be good and getting better every year.

  • Kuney

    I think the best approach with this defense is to just be overly aggressive and focus on the turnovers. I’m not sure we have the players to play full all around sound defense, so why not go the other way and gamble and force the tempo on that side of the ball too. They’re going to give up points regardless.
    If kelly can walk on water i’m not worried about getting in a shoot out. What will kill us is if we go three and out and then then the other team has those long sustained drives because were trying to react. Those will be the ugly games that will have people second guessing.
    At least give the defense an identity and they are clearly not ready to be the bend but don’t break of old.

  • GEagle

    I get that we didn’t add any sure shot NFL defensive gamebreakers. Trust me I get it….but what did you want on the market that we missed out on?…There were players that might have been slightly better than who we got…but there is NO WAY of telling if they would have agreed to deals that we can bail out on, that will force these free agents to stay hungry and produce if they want their money..
    ….
    Btw, before I forget I have to take my shot at the Philly Media…Im still hearing the damn word “Sconces” because a player missed non mandatory practice…that’s fine and all, but if the media wants to rebel rouse the fanbase against a player, then I expect them to be fair and report when he is doing right….Its not a scandalous and gossipy story, so the media doesn’t really care, but for those that do…
    ..
    Cary Williams was the first CB to show up for camp…He was there like 3 days early this week, watching Film with coaches…His attendance wasn’t MANDATORY either!!!

  • JofreyRice

    The Colts have a a very good QB, but he threw a lot of questionable balls into very tight coverage, and made the name on the back his jersey very appropriate in ’12. Don’t get me wrong, he looks like he’ll end up being a great player, but besides throwing the second most number of interceptions in the league last year, with 18, football outsiders has him down for 14 *additional* dropped interceptions, in their adjusted interceptions stat.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/adjusted-interceptions-2012

    RG3 was the truth before he got to Washington. I give them credit for bringing in the triple option to make the most of his skills, but I also think he has a lot to offer as a passer in a more conventional system as well.

    You’re acting like you’ve been studying Davis’ career for years, and are cluing the rest of us in on an up and coming Bill Belichick type. Plenty of crappy coaches come from good trees. Look at Sean McDoormat, the punk errand boy for JJ. Davis has been underwhelming in his stints as D-Coordinator.

  • GEagle

    of course! I don’t mind hearing that in jest from fans…But I despise hearing it in a rebel rousing way from the media…I actually think Sconces should be his nickname, but when I say it, Im not implying look at what this POS said, he cares more about sconces than the team, which was basically what the media was trying to say

    • Andy124

      “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” ~Inigo Montoya
      “rabble rousing”
      Not trying to be a grammar nazi, just sharing a little knowledge.

  • GEagle

    Since Im talking to a fanbase that doesn’t have much faith in the direction we are headed on defense, and since Howie has basically structured contracts where he can cut whoever he wants in 2015..Im curious to get a reading on the fans…How Many of the defenders in our main rotation this year, will still be here contributing to what many believe will be a good defense by 2015?
    ..
    How many of our current defenders(the ones expected to play big minutes this year) will still be contributing in 2015, and who do people feel needs to be replaced, as in, NO HOPE THIS PLAYER EVER PLAYS FOR A GOOD DEFENSE?

    • CJ

      Who will still be contributing in 2 years?
      Ryans and Phillips ? (assuming they can still stand by then)
      Kendricks
      Cox

      Maybes: Maybe Graham, the rookies are too early to tell.

      Who needs to go now?
      I’d venture to guess by 2015 the whole freaking secondary gets revamped again.

      • Richard Colton

        Can’t argue with your list, and that’s only if things break RIGHT for the team. We might be looking at 8 new starters on D by the time this team is ready to compete. I’ll take Phillips off your list, because I don’t think he’ll ever be healthy, and add Boykin, ’cause what the hell – it’s still July.

        • GEagle

          I think Boykin will be here for a long time…Poyer can play Nickle, but he isn’t half the athlete Boyk is!…I put a TON of stock into Nickle CB’s…very under appreciayted, and its a position I don’t like to mess around with(kind of like a pitcher), If Its working, Leave him alone and don’t mess with it!

      • GEagle

        ITS VERY POSSIBLE that this entire secondary is gone…if you want my hypothesis its that one of the two, Cary and Bradley will develop into players we keep, and our starting CB on the opposite side will get drafted this next offseason…I still am not ready to give up my Jarius Byrd Pipe Dream, and CHUNG will be here because he would accept a backup role and still be a special teams beast..However, if you keep Chung out of Coverage, there is a chance he gets to keep his spot in 2015(I damn sure wouldn’t hold my breath)..
        .
        Barwin and Kendricks arent going anywhere!!!!…
        ..
        Graham is a sticky situation because of having to extend him, wouldn’t rule it out tho…
        ..
        Best Odds to NOT be here in 2015?
        I would go with, God I hate to say this, Vinny Curry, Sopo Obviously, Cole obviously(although I have more hope for him today then I did this past Wednesday due to some things I have heard)..Kenny Phillips, 1 of the CBs Cary or Fletch wont be here

  • Max Lightfoot

    I’d sure like to see a running attack develop rather than them being the quickest three-and-out team in the history of the NFL. Hopefully the O-line stays nice and healthy and mean. And out there in the Midwest, any week now Andy Reid will announce his intention to establish a Chiefs running game …

  • GEagle

    Im DISGUSTED!….my day is ruined. Don’t know how serious it is, but Benn left with a knee injury today, which is one of the last things I wanted to hear today!

    Sucks cause Chips pressconference had me so hype! McPherson and Lane together made for a pretty good interview…The inside training camp segment on Kelce(talkin bout last year) was awesome….and then I find out about Benn….DAY RUINED! talk to you’s tomorrow!

    • Token

      See, dont you feel this is going a little far? You love this guy. Hes a nothing. Hes never been anything in the NFL. It would be simply amazing if he could get 4-500 yards this season.

      • GEagle

        Loved this kid in College, young 2nd round pick..ranked 5th and then 11th in consecutive seasons in YAC, playing without the best QB..IF ANY PLAYER is poised to produce, if he can stop getting injured and get some damn continuity is this dude! Do you realize what a ST contributor he could be? Are you really concerned about his ability to beat the crap out of defensive backs in the run block game?

        Going a little to far? Don’t you think only caring about whether a guy can have 500 yards sounds a little fanboyish? Do you know how much dirty work that goes un noticed in a stat sheet needs to be done for a team to have success?

        I don’t think IN ALL MY PRAISE of Benn(which you take so much offense to lol) Did I ever mention any expectations of growing into this monster Brandon Marshall junior type…but, Because of Chip being here, Benn has serious value to this team in so many other ways then being the next terrel Owens in the pass game….YOU DAMN RIGHT, IM EXCITED about getting a FAST, PHYSICAL, BIG BOY Reciever, who can do a ton on ST, while also punishing DBs in the run game, and occasionally ripping off a Huge play, Especially considering all the attention opposing defenses will have to give to the rest of his teammates…SO NO, I don’t think Im going overboard at all. I appreciate and Understand how important the dirty work doing Iike Reeses of the world are…A guy that will do Dirty work, while having the ability to break off a big play here and there, IMO, is something to get excited about…Losing him the first day of TC,…NOT EXCITING TO ME!!!

        • GiveMeABreak

          Benn’s a bust. Over-rated out of HS and under-performed at Illinois. Lacks great speed, not particularly quick. Not surprising he did not work out at TB. Also, not surprising that he landed on our GM’s radar. He has a nose for this kind of player. Having said that, I hope he’s not hurt badly and that he gets a chance to prove me wrong.

    • poetx99

      fwiw, more reps for momah. i want benn to be healthy, make the team, and be a solid contributor.

      if its not in the cards, though, i’d rather it be sooner than later, especially if it opens up opptys for harold carmichel 2.0 to get more reps with the ones and have a better shot at making the team outright and/or being a solid contributor as opposed to being in contention for the PS.

      • GEagle

        I cant disagree…But Its hard to say, well this guy would have just gotten injured in the preseason anyway…

        BTW, if anyone is having a bad day, go listen to what Chip said about Desean and Peters today, and you will smile!!!

    • Mr. Wu

      dang poor kid…..guess some of these guys are just made of glass. shame. I hope Kenny Phillips doesn’t join this list but I have a feeling he will unfortunately.

      • GEagle

        I don’t know the extent of the injury….Lets hop[e its a precaution, or a sprain….Either way, you don’t even want to hear guys like Benn and Phillips knees even mentioned…You know?

  • poetx99

    fair enough. if i’m starting off, though, and have the chance to direct ppl to my shining lineage or a couple of examples of mediocrity, guess which one i’m pointing out. and we don’t know how much autonomy he had even when in charge of the d in SF or AZ (or here, for that matter). the HC or FO may have said, you’re hired if you come in and run this scheme.

    -shrug-

    i hope i’m right while conceding that you could be.

    • GiveMeABreak

      I hope you’re right too. As a long time fan, a bad offense is frustrating but a bad defense is intolerable.

  • Token

    Just watch some RG3 games. You are out of your depth here. The guy is a great passer.

    I think the Shanahan’s are a bad fit for RG3, but at the end of the day its hard to mess up a talent like that. But they sure are trying hard.

    • GEagle

      you are out of your depth even trying to comprehend what Im trying to say lol……..ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE SATS AND YOU WILL BE BLOWN AWAY BY HOW RG3 THREW THE BALL. He threw for a lot of yards and completed a high amount….Sorry you cant comprehend more than a laimon view of stats…..

      Let me try to dumb this down as much as I can for you:
      RG3 did NOTHING wrong last year! He was LIGHTS OUT IN EVERY SINGLE FOCXKIN WAY POSSIBLE!!!(and Im not being sarcastic the least bit)…Take a fockin second to digest that so that I wont be misunderstood!!… Ready?….
      ….
      He did EVERYTHING that was asked for him at a RIDICULOUSLY HIGH LEVEL AND WAS LIGHTS Fockin out!….Understand?
      ….
      However, he got to play the QB positions with ridiculously valuable advantages that WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THERE!!!!
      DC’s not ready for his skill set in that Offense, made it so the Game was EASIER than it will probably ever be for him. His abilities in that RUN GAME based offense, caused I wont say Easy, but rather DEFINED throws…were there was really No Question where the ball was going. It was goingf to either otion A, or B…and if DC’s continue to allow that, this MAN WILL GO ON TO BECOME THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PLAYER THE WORLD HAS FRIGGIN SEEN!… But til this point, every time we saw something like this, defenses adapted and it got taken away…MY GUESS is that there is going to be a time where DC’s SHUT THAT ISH DOWN and he is forced to go thru his progressions and get the ball to maybe his 4th option….SINCE HE HASNT HAD TO PLAY THE GAME THAT WAY YET, why the hell would I just assume he is Incredible at it?

      Shannahan already will have to be more cautious with the play calling…whats going to happen if Alfred gets knocked out for two games?…
      Now If you want my Hypothesis, its that RG3 will Learn to be able to handle and succeed in that facet of the game, when DC’s learn to take away that other stuff he has enjoyed to this point and that Ultimately, if his knees don’t get killed, and he doesn’t get concussed, I think this kid will grow into an Elite QB, like most people and have an EPIC CAREER. I repeat, I EXPECT RG3 to HAVE AN EPIC YEAR…..I JUST HAVE MY RESERVATIONS ABOUT HIS SOPHMORE SEASON!…If you read my phase 1, and Phase 2 developmental talk…The true measure to a player is once he has success, and defenses adjust and pay attention to him, how he overcomes THAT and Keeps his same production that made him the MAN in Phase 1 of development…That hasn’t happened yet….I think the world of RG3 like everyone else does, I just think he has high odds to stumble in his sophomore season…

      I basically think he can easily grow into a player that can do all those things I talk about him not having to do yet, and do them at a high level….I guess, Im just not as convinced as most people that it will happen overnight….

      I was discussing, who would have a better SOPHMORE SEASON, and I think its going to be Luck….That doesn’t mean that I don’t think Both can be great QBs, and that I wouldn’t give up my first born for either!!! Andrew Luck and Rg3? or Foles and Barkley? who the hell you chosing? lol

      • turf toe joes

        With that said, that’s why it makes all the more sense that if Vick is the QB we will win more games that projected. For those enamored with RG3 last year, its a prelude to what Vick, the Eagles could’ve been. Threat to throw or run from QB….check! Beastly run game? Redskins….Morris, check. Eagles? Could have but, Andy frickin Reid! And I definitely know our receiving corps is better than the Redskins

    • Richard Colton

      How will he have time to pass when he’s getting pounded by Cox all day?

  • Token

    lol you at least keep me laughing. Billy Davis is a nobody. He was a gofer at PIT. Hes not from that tree. He got the big boys coffee while they were watching film. He was the Eagles 4th or 5th choice when nobody else wanted to work with Chip and this talent deficient defensive unit.

    Didnt we set records the last two years for passing TDs allowed or something like that? But please, tell me how packed we are with talent.

    • GEagle

      hahahah who the hell will you be counting on this year, that was even here when we were allowing QBs to shred our secondary? lol

      Brandon Graham only pressured the QB 50 Fockin percent of the time he was in the game last year..Got forbid we get excited at what he can do with one more season of growth, continuity, knee healing, and a running head start from the OLB position…Look, Graham could have been fockin Reggie White Reincarnated last year, and Wash still would have had Babin in the game/…It takes a miserable jaded person to not get excited about Brandon Graham! lol
      ..
      Just Imagine What Meco would have looked like last year in a healthy environment…1 more year of continuity after injury. Yeah, why the hell would that excite us lol…

      Connar Barwin had 11 sacks a year ago, and last year he was pressuring QBs on about 10 of Watts 20 sacks lol, and had like 4 of his own, all while doing a ton of dirty work work…Its his 3rd year getting playing time, why would we be excited about that Bum? A starter at a major position, from one of the NFLs top defenses lol…

      Cary, ROUGH regular season, but after seeing Every team go after him in the post season and him hold his own, you don’t think its possible that he was growing as a player? If Cary would have started the season playing how he did in the playoffs, and then played like he did in the regular season…I probably wouldn’t be excited,…But Im willing to bet Howie signed him because he saw constant progression as the season went along, which is what you need to see in young players..

      I don’t even know why I would respond to such an ignorant opinion..I should Know better..1 Token, the Geoagle 0

    • GiveMeABreak

      Awesome!

  • GEagle

    Wonder if cutting Powell today means we are going to sign Obrien Scofield? Cant remember if Scofield was there when Billy was…This is what, scofields 3rd or 4th year?

  • JofreyRice

    Does Wolff really have a lot to lose? A 5th round rookie that’s GUARANTEED a roster spot, because of the other trash at safety, promoted to starter b/c of continued horrible play by Allen. The only thing I see him losing is the chance to start for a pro football team from day 1 of his career, which is not a given for a 5th round pick at arguably the most complicated position on defense.

    The dearth of talent in the secondary is going to keep giving Wolff chances to make his mark beyond this game. Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman have been proving they stink for yearsnow , and the Eagles probably STILL can’t cut them both.

    • Token

      Id be glad if he started for a couple reasons.

      1. It gives him the entire season to show that hes not very good. Forcing them, I would hope, to properly address the position next offseason. Instead of playing the, “well we expect Wolff to take another step this year with more playing time” card.

      2. Theres the outside chance that he surprises us and becomes a player. We KNOW Allen and Coleman arent NFL players. Why keep beating that dead horse every year. Id rather watch an unknown, let him prove himself one way or the other. Im sure theres been players that look like garbage on their college tape and then blossom into NFL players. Maybe he is one?

    • aub32

      I agree. If anything, he has more to gain than he does to lose.

  • GEagle

    Tim, you gave Dixon a pass. If you are injured fringe vet like Dixon, being injured and not able to play isn’t going to save you from being cut. While he sat out of last weeks game, young bucks like Curry,Logan,Square started to make a name for themselves. I don’t see any way that we could keep more than 7 Dlineman, and it might be as little as 6:
    1)Cox
    2)Soap
    3)Cedrick
    4)Logan
    5)Curry
    I don’t think any of them are in danger of not making this roster..

    Square has put himself on the map this summer, in practice and game 1..
    ..
    the reAity of the situation is you have 4 guys fighting for 1 or 2 spots:
    Gaethers
    Dixon
    Sqaures
    Kruger

    Dixon has as much, if not more to lose tonight than Gaethers

    • cliff henny

      7 has to max, i’d carry 6, since graham and cole are still very capable ends if injuries get out of hand in a game. ps squad kruger and sqares. gaethers seems like the old ‘first off the bus guy’ we all played with, but it never translate to the field

      • GEagle

        Yeah there is just no way to keep 8, and like you said practically all our OLBs can still play on the line when we go to 4man fronts.

        square and Kruger on a practice squad scare me, but it a real possibility

        • cliff henny

          i down voted you…just because i cant read a response from you unless it has it’s customary down vote. lol…you’re original post was up maybe 30 secs b4 it got popped

          • GEagle

            Lol

          • cliff henny

            bam, again. squares is interesting. sure you read tommy saying he’s probably already playing at his ceiling. we know kruger is a yr away. if they have to protect him, can live with giving him 7th spot. dont think we have to worry about squares. and if he is snagged, lsu bama georgia, etc will put another one of him out next yr. sec knows how to build d-line guys

          • Andy124

            “I went and down voted everyone else’s comment”

            “I have literally never down voted anyone in my life without responding underneath”
            Hmmmm….

            “BUT YOU READ ME!!!”
            fwiw, it’s entirely possible to downvote a post without reading it. :)

          • GEagle

            I just down voted you, and I refuse to tell you why! Lol

          • Andy124

            Didn’t you see my post about high blood pressure? I can’t handle any downvotes before a doctor’s appt. man. How can you do that to me?

  • GEagle

    I’m stoked to see How Logan and Wolff do tonight against NFL starts…I also hope that they give Square a snap or two against starters just to see if he hits a wall

  • Andy124

    280 comments and counting. Think people are excited about the game tonight? Most interesting pre-season ever?

  • GEagle

    I don’t disagree…but he needs to consistently be a TOUGHER player!

  • Dominik

    So does this implicate we have to see Coleman for one more year? :D

  • Token

    What?

  • Richard Colton

    Say what you want about DeSean, but he has matured over his time with the Eagles. Hopefully he has a big year this year along with Maclin.

  • knighn

    I don’t think the Read Option is going away. I also know that the NFL finds ways of protecting its star QBs. If the QB is a runner, he should expect to get hit and slide or get out of bounds as soon as reasonable. If the QB gets rid of the ball on the option, there is a fraction of a second where the QB is fair game. After that, it’s a late hit and 15 yards on the defense. Expect to see a lot more of those late hits called this year. If a player / team racks up enough of those hits, you’re talking a fine or a suspension. Like I said: the NFL will find a way of protecting star QBs. I don’t think the NFL wants to watch RGIII carried out on a stretcher again this year.

  • Joe Jones

    The premise behind the read option is occupying a defender without actually having to block him….thus creating a numbers advantage for the offense. So, by assigning a defender to hit the QB may or may not draw a flag, it absolutely accomplishes what the offense intends and your defense gets gashed.

    Trying to injure the QB or knock him out of the game with hits after he hands off the ball, isnt really a sound defense strategy either. If you watched last yr, the QBs who ran the read option were rarely hit after they handed the ball off…..First because the play is executed in the backfield and there is typically not a defender close enough to legally hit the QB…..the edge defender typically looks at the QB to contain him and the RB takes the handoff……if that guy on the edge is assigned to hit the QB regardless, he is gonna be racking up late hits and roughing penalties all game long.

    If defending the read option was as simplistic as assigning a guy to hit the QB, it would have been easily solved. If it was that easy, then why didn’t Dom Capers do it in the playoff game vs SF when Kaepernick ran all over them? If its that simple, I doubt the Redskins would have enjoyed the success they did.

  • poetx99

    that’s how you attack the traditional option with the QB running and the mesh point close to the optioned defender. in the read option, the QB has gotten rid of the ball by the time the optioned defender is near enough to hit him and you can’t tee off on him in the NFL like that.

    that’s the fundamental difference that makes this more viable in the NFL than the old Oklahoma type option QB plays.

    adding a moment’s hesitation to a couple of defenders on a play is a very nice schematic pickup for the offense, and if you truly option a defender and leave him unblocked, that is a +1 advantage to the O. this definitely can work without endangering the QB. but the QB does need to be a credible run threat in order for this to be a viable component of the offense and not just ‘seasoning’.

  • Corry

    I agree the NFL will eventually find a way to protect their prize players.

    But I ask this as a serious question: is it a late hit? If he’s throwing the ball, then yes, hitting the QB after he throws is a late hit. But the read option makes the QB a potential runner and thus fair game to be hit, within the existing rules of the game. I don’t think it’s there’s a late hit rule on a hand off in regards to a read option play where QB and RB basically have joint possession of the ball until the very last second. At least…there isn’t a rule yet.

    And obviously if you wait 10 seconds then hit the QB, then yeah a ref wil likely throw a flag.

  • Andy124

    Well, the way Chip came up with is 1.5 seconds to throw the ball is that is how long he says it takes an unblocked defender to get to the QB.

    If it takes half a second for the QB to hand the ball off the defender is getting there a full second after the fact. I think that would be called. That’s got to be what, 7, 8 yards?

    Now if the QB carries out the fake after the hand-off that’s another story, and I think we will see that part of it go away. RG3 said as much last year iirc.

  • Dutch

    Rushing Defenders aren’t allowed to hit the QB in the pocket or behind the line of scrimmage after one step and the QB has gotten the ball off in either a pass or hand off. The rule is if you take a step and the ball is released defenders have to avoid at all cost contact with the QB behind the line of scrimmage. That’s a rule Brady inspired after suffering his knee injury.

  • cliff henny

    rg3 is the worst example, too. watch kaep and wilson, they never got hit. they always ran to sidelines, and would step out before contact. shanarat called the inside read, where rg3 would run between tackles…mean, that’s insane. can do that in college, but not pro ball. also, rg3 turned it up on sidelines and got concussed. hurt his knee diving headfirst and getting sandwiched in the air. the guy simply did not protect himself.
    also, the true read option is only run 8-10 times a game. that scenerio is exactly what kelly wants. he wants the defense to focus on that one play. great, stop it, what about the other 70 plays being called. why we’ll be in the read option look 99% of the time, it’s window dressing. while the unblocked defender is sprinting at qb, the offense is taking huge advantage of him taking himself out of the play.
    watch oregon play. get the theory, but on the field, it just doesnt work. that unblocked defender has been run by and pushed out of play so many times, that he’ll hesitate for just a second.

  • Dutch

    in 1.5 secs, the receiver could only set up for a screen or look in for a quick slant provided he’s not pressed coming off the line. It’s not possible to complete a 3 to 7 yd route against a defender in 1.5 seconds and get separation.

  • James Skip Carl

    Not for me I expect at least 11 wins our division sucks

  • Corry

    The rule Tom Brady inspired was diving at the knees, which is also specifically laid out in the NFL rules . The rule book specifically states that it be a pass for the one step rule. Obviously, these rules are up to the ref’s discretion in making the call, but I honestly don’t think it applies for read option type plays where the QB can be a decoy or runner.

    Traditional hand offs, the QB is protected as he has his back turned and is clearly out of the play at that point.

    Rule 12 Player Conduct: http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

    The one step rule is article 13.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    No, the rule that Brady inspired after his knee injury is that if a defender is on the ground he is not allowed to lunge at a quarterbacks knees. The one step rule on roughing the passer has been in the league for a long time.

  • Dutch

    I expect contention for the division myself, Vick is 9-1 against the NFC EAST in games he started and finished the last 3 years. the Eagles offense is pretty much intact and have dominated the defenses in their division. I don’t see any new additions anywhere in the east that should change that domination especially with a healthy Eagles offensive line.

    It’s the defense that can and will hurt the Eagles. The receiver combinations in the division going against a raw Eagles defensive backfield is where the concern lies. The Eagles can score enough points on division foes but can they outscore is the question.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    Our division has some strong offenses and our defense could be terrible.

  • Token

    We have easily the worst team in the division. I dont think its even close. Be objective dont be a homer.

  • Token

    People cant get over the fact this is a 4-12 team without a whole lot of talent. This team is a couple years away from competing depending on what happens with the QB situation.

    If Foles or Barkley show they cant beat out lowly Michael Vick then its time to move on from them and draft Bridgewater next year.

  • knighn

    This stuff always fascinates me. There were 18 games against the NFC East over the last 3 years. So… Awesome: Vick is 9-1 in games he started and finished against the NFC East in the last 3 years. Horrible: Vick could not start and/or finish 8 games against the NFC East the last 3 years. But Vick’s not injury-prone, right?

  • Dutch

    Article 8 There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to:

    (e) unnecessarily running, diving into, cutting, or throwing the body against or on a player who (i) is out of

    the play or (ii) should not have reasonably anticipated such contact by an opponent, before or after

    the ball is dead;

    Article 13

    PASS LEAVING PASSER’S HAND; ONE-STEP RULE

    (1) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the

    ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made;………..; the Referee will use the release of the ball

    from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected;

  • Corry

    Regarding Dom Capers, read the article. They assigned a man to block the guy who was supposed to take the QB. They added a wrinkle to it that Capers wasn’t prepared for.

    The way the read option is defended is by assigning a DE to play the dive and LB or a safety to play QB (in the case of a triple option, you have to have a man to play the pitch as well). The read is the DE, and if the DE crashes, the QB keeps the ball. If you’ve already got a man assigned to contain the QB, then hit him. Now obviously, individual execution is the key here. RGIII, Kaepernick, and Wilson (and why not throw Vick in there) are not easy to hit. They’re fast, they got some wiggle, and if they were easy to hit, they wouldn’t be running the Read Option. But, when you have an opportunity to hit the QB, you have to execute and make the most of it. The goal is NOT to injure. No one wants an injury, but if you can rattle him a bit and get him to start making bad reads, then you’ve gotten in his head and you’ve got it beat.

    The reason why it’s hard to defend NOW is because there is no film on it at the pro level, which is why so many defensive coaches are now talking to college coaches on how to defend it. You don’t know how to practice against it, and the execution is extremely poor in defending it. Now they’ve got film and will be able to adjust accordingly. I don’t think it will be as successful coming into this year as it was last year, much the same the wild cat has become a thing of the past except on occasion. Will there still be big plays off it? Absolutely, poor execution is will always lead to big plays, but I’m not sure it will be so wildlly successful.

  • Dutch

    The NFL is not going to sit by and allow the new era QBs coming into the league to absorb unnecessary and punitive hits as a defense to slowing down a fast exciting offensive scheme.

    Some of the hits in the Super Bowl on Kaepernick were roughing but not called. I understand the officials didn’t want to have any impact on the outcome of the game.

  • knighn

    On paper: I do think there’s a whole lot of talent on offense, regardless of the QB, you’ve got DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Brent Celek, Zach Ertz, LeSean McCoy, Bryce Brown, etc, and that’s not even looking at how good the O-line should be this year (on paper). Defense is just a huge question mark, and STs will improve this year (almost impossible for STs to not improve).

    However, statistically, you are absolutely correct. A team that has won 4 or fewer games may turn around the next season and make the playoffs, but it is a rarity for that 4-win team to actually win a playoff game and an extreme rarity for that team to win more than one playoff game. Considering that 12 teams (37.5% of 32) make the playoffs every year and a minimum of 4 teams (12.5%) win at least one playoff game, the odds for at 4-11-1 or worse team are far behind the rest of the league (odds of playoffs = less than 23% versus 37.5% for the rest of the league; odds of playoff win = 4.17% versus at least 12.5%; odds of a winning two playoff games = nearly 0.00% versus a minimum of 6.25%). I’ll show you more math if you’d like, but the bottom line is the same: a team with 4 or fewer wins is NOT a Super Bowl contender the next season.

    On the plus side: at least 3 teams since 2002 to go 4 or fewer wins were able to turn around and win the Super Bowl a few years later.

  • Dutch

    I don’t think the Eagles are far out being in the East.

    It’s not like the Eagles have ever had an abundance of talent throughout their roster over the last 10 years. There was alway a weak area but they found a way to compete. Even in years when we were weak Andy found a way to get into the playoffs. 2009, and 2010 are prime examples.

    Looked to me as if the managing of the team and injuries were the primary culprits to success over the last two seasons. They had their customary cast of competitors and their usual cast of over achievers.

  • aub32

    Does coaching not play a factor in the talent assessment. Look at SF. Before Harbaugh took over they were one of the worst teams in the league. He took them to the NFC Championship in year 1. Would have been the SB if not for some muffed punts. He also did it without upgrading the QB situation. Now I am not saying AR is as bad a coach as Singletary, but let’s face it. His last couple of years here were full of bad coaching decisions, from play calling to coaching staff hires. I would take Shady over Gore any Sunday, and our O line may end up being as good as SF. Yes our D is lacking but they were undercoached the last 2 years. Who knows what they can do minus the wide 9 and an O line coach calling defenses.

  • Corry

    Article 13 says “passer” and “pass”, not hand off. I’m splitting hairs, but the it is my opinion, that the one step rule is for passing plays only.

    In regards to article 8, I believe that the QB is still in play as he will hold the ball as long as possible to suck the defender in. It’s an entirely different situation on a traditional hand off where the QB has turned his back and is clearly no longer in possession of the ball and has taken himself out of the play.

    It’s just my opinion that the read option is a different animal and should be defended as such.

  • cliff henny

    i’d love to see the stat for the follow-up year in regards to 4 win (or really any previously bad record) teams making playoffs. just my gut feeling is there’s a bounce back yr (unless have all-world player…p manning comes to mind here). while playoffs would be great, a 5 or 6 win season isnt end of world. followed up w 8 or 9 in ’14 rather see a steady improvement than 1 yr fools gold.

  • Joe Jones

    I hear you…..I wasnt trying to be condescending….but your initial post offered a pretty simplistic explanation for defending it….right? And as you explained in your reply, its not so simple and requires tremendous discipline and execution.

    I dont know how successful it will be going forward. I’m sure it caught many off guard last yr and with more tape, I agree, defenses will adjust….to what extent? We shall see. Go Birds

  • knighn

    Keep in mind Donovan McNabb’s last Eagles season was 2009 and McNabb also known as “injury prone”. McNabb, the less injury-prone one, started 16 straight in 2008 (19 straight including playoffs). McNabb also started 13 straight in 2009 (14 including playoffs). If your point is that Kolb and Vick are far more injury-prone than McNabb: congratulations! You made your point! Vick truly is injury-prone!

  • knighn

    When you say the “Eagles defense hasn’t been good”, what do you classify as “good”? A top-10 defense against yards / scoring? A top-5 defense against yards / scoring?

  • Corry

    It was indeed simplistic (and that happens when you wake up and then go right to Birds 24/7).

  • Dutch

    The danger for the defense it that there has to be a safety dedicated to play the rushing lanes. As the safety begins to come up in support that leaves openings behind the defense for DJax to exploit. You keep diving or slanting enough you force the End to contain his rush and at the same time you’re baiting the safety up to fill the rushing lane until that one play where DJax is one on one behind the defense.

    As options demand, every play sets up the next play. Any positive rushing yards is a productive play whether it’s 1 yard or 60 yards.

    In the Green Bay game, Mathews continued his usual rush, often unblocked and the 49ers kept going inside him until the safeties came up to fill the rushing lane behind Mathews. At that point Kaepernick and Crabtree picked the Packers secondary apart.

  • aub32

    I don’t think QBs are holding the ball til the last possible second. They just want that initial misstep from the defender. It’s not like the RB is standing in place waiting to either get the ball or not. The whole process. This notion tht the QB is holding onto the ball until the defender is a foot away is silly to me.

  • Dutch

    The QBs aren’t holding the ball in delay in the Read Option. The Triple Option is a different animal, as I’m certain you are aware. In the Read, it’s either a dive or slant play, and every now and then a back around the outside, Brown likes to run to the outside. In the Zone there aren’t any gaps but rather lanes created by the combination blocks giving the tailback the option where he sees a crease. That works to hold linebackers who hesitate to locate the ball carrier. Which allows Peters and Johnson to slid off of their combination blocks and catch linebackers standing still.

    When it’s executed properly it’s a beautiful thing to watch.

  • aub32

    I don’t think so. We have arguably the best RBs in the division. Dez excluded I would take our WRs against any in the division. If our O line stays healthy it should be the best in the division. We ae deeper than anyone else at TE. DAL has good LBs, but I don’t think NY or WAS has much in that department. No team really has good safety play, and every teams’ top pass rusher is coming off a significant injury (Ware, JPP, Cole, Orakpo). This isn’t to say that the Eagles are a lock to beat down on our division foes. However, I don’t think the gap is nearly as wide as you make it seem. Plus we have the QB with the most success in the division over the past 3 years. (I know you hate him but just thought I’d put it out there)

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    We also have a QB on our squad who has regularly owned the teams in the division. Kelly needs (IMO) at least 7 wins for this year to be considered a success…and 8-8 would be great – the easiest way to do that is to win a most of the divisional games. And the Eagles can easily do that.

  • Dutch

    You were right, it’s a simple approach but it’s way out of line with how the professionals in today’s NFL play defense. In the NFL defenses rush the passer and drop the safeties which causes openings in the backside rushing lanes.

    There are a ton of duel threat QBs in the College System pipeline running those offenses waiting to come into the NFL.

  • Andy124

    Points allowed are the most important measure of a defense and ‘good’ is not a very strong adjective.

    Divide the league in to thirds. Bottom third, 21-32, is not good or worse.
    Middle third, 11-20, is average.
    Top third, 1-10, is good or better.

    Eagles have had multiple defenses since 2004 that fall in to the ‘good or better’ category, including 2011.

  • knighn

    Yeah, but I wanted Dutch to set up the parameters so that I could show him that he was wrong again. Watching Dutch be wrong never gets old for me, and it seems to happen on here at least once a day.

  • aub32

    I am not going to argue the stats but would you personally deem the 2011 defense as good? They had some better games toward the end of the season which I am sure helped out with the overall numbers, but they were pretty bad to start the year.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    I would take the Giants receivers over ours.

  • Andy124

    I know, but I’m guessing he wasn’t going to reply because the trap was clear.

    If he did reply it would be along the lines of:
    “No mere statistic can tell the whole story about the quality of a defense. No defense shall be deemed ‘good’ unless it is described as such by dutch, puny mortal.”

  • Dutch

    Seems you never gave thought to the fact it’s easy to quantify good with accurate statistics readily available online?

    Or a subjective analysis if the Eagles defense not being capable of holding onto leads late in the 4th Quarter over the last two seasons?

  • Dutch

    The initial step of a defender coming out of his stance determines where the play goes. A defender who steps right is to late to defend a play going inside or to his left. Same applies to a supporting safety, once he steps forward to support a rushing lane his momentum coming forward takes him out of any play on a streaking receiver with blazing speed.

  • aub32

    I wouldn’t fault you but I am saying there is room for debate there. Nicks is always hurt, and Cruz is a slot receiver. Plus outside of those two they really don’t have anyone including at TE. I would take our skill players as a whole over the Giants, especially if Benn is healthy and effective in the slot.

  • aub32

    I agree and don’t know why people can’t understand this. They changed the rules for Tom Brady. Do they not think the time won’t come when the league passes the RG3 rule. In a single season he made a big market team relevant after a decade of obscurity. He’s been talked about more than any other player his offseason. There’s no way the league is going to stand by and let him get killed by D lineman trying to take cheap shots.

  • knighn

    Good Dutch!

    I stated below that you often made good football points. This would be one of them.

    While this is somewhat opinion-based, it does reinforce the absolute fact that the NFL has done much and continues to do much to protect the QBs. It also points out the obvious: many of the hits on Kaep should have been “roughing” and there is often a different standard of officiating in post-season games. There shouldn’t be. On the highest stage the officials need to be held to the highest standard. The officials end up impacting the game negatively by NOT doing their jobs!

  • knighn

    Yikes! That was a scary imitation! You better watch it or we’ll have to start calling you Dutch2!

    In all reality: Dutch does make some good football points and it’s obvious that the guy has some good football knowledge. Then he goes off on some unsubstantiated BS and annoys the F out of everyone…

  • Corry

    That’s assuming the Safety is taking the QB. You can also use a WILL linebacker as well, it really depends on the coordinator. Now the TRIPLE option, I believe definitely requires the safety to come down.

  • illadelphia21

    Yeah I learned about this last season and its a thing of brilliance. They also used it for “off tackle” type runs, plus inside runs. It just destroys a defense. So it not just for the option. As a matter of fact I was more excited for Shady. Think about him, w/ all his cuts running behind a zone blocking scheme, yet having a FB/TE pulling and leading through the hole to the 2nd level, or through the hole and peeling off on a crashing LB or D-lineman…or… Also the FB/TE pulling the opposite way for a “crack back” block allowing for more blocking on counters, misdirections, and his general cut backs.

  • JofreyRice

    Right, but I think attacking the QB is still essentially forcing the action, and removing the element of uncertainty, which is part of what makes the play so effective. If you go after the QB every time–even if you don’t hit him–you should be able to force the handoff, and have guys assigned to run fits to replace the end that’s going after the QB.

    For me, when the read-option has looked devastating is when the end completely negates any effect he might have by trying to defend both the back & QB by “reading”. That’s no man’s land. I think committing to one or the other with defenders behind to replace run responsibilities seems to be the best way to defeat it, however you’ve got to have second level defenders that can make open field tackles, and/or a very good deep safety to play centerfield if that second level defender ends up being an extra safety.

  • Andy124

    I’d have to do some homework to answer that with any confidence. But my guess is in line with yours.

  • Corry

    That’s probably the other reason why the read option is so successful. Good tacklers in the secondary is like finding hens teeth these days. Poor safety play is such an epidemic in the NFL today.

  • theycallmerob

    It’s football porn. Love it.

  • JofreyRice

    I think there is a different standard of officiating on “option QBs”, in general–from the highschool level all the way up–but I think that they tend to be a little liberal in the playoffs as well.

  • illadelphia21

    That’s what I thought to or rather something similar. I’ve seen time and time again where DEs or LBs would never destroy a QB after he pitched to the back. Instead they would give him a shove, if they hit him at all, or immediately turn to try and chase down the play.
    I know Tebow is big and tough, but even during the playoff game a couple yrs back Nicovich (or however you spell it) would never destroy, blast, blow up, lay out, or obliterate Tebow…and his assignment was to key in on Tebow that whole game. This notion of just killing the QB is simplistic (but that doesn’t mean bad) and if it worked or the game allowed it, why hasn’t it been done yet. Personally I wouldn’t mind if the eagles took a personal foul penalty or two in the early stages of the game, just to send a message. But make no mistake, we will get flagged!

  • Dutch

    it flatters me you pay attention to my postings………. I wasn’t sure anyone read them….

  • Dominik

    I have the upmost respect for Harbaugh, it’s insance what kind of a turnaround he made in SF in bascially one season.

    But it would be unfair to use Harbaugh as a blueprint for rookie HCs. Just like A. Luck isn’t a blueprint for # 1 Picks.

    That being said: Harbaugh gives me hope that Chip can turn this franchise around rather sooner than later. Doesn’t mean Superbowl in 2 years, but at least be in the conversation for a deep playoff run in the next two, three or four years.

    There are similarities (if you want to see them ;)): Harbaugh had a very good D he could rely on (# 2 in points allowed). The Offense was just above average (I’m talking about his first year, now) as # 11 ranked in points per game. They had a great TO ratio (+28) and great ST play.

    It may seem unrealistic, but the Eagles could have a solid D, maybe # 15-18. With a great Offense, a good TO ratio and good ST play, it could work to get to 9-10 wins and that could be enough for the playoffs.

    Another similarity: Harbaugh came in a very weak division, at the time probably the weakest division in Football. The NFC East isn’t very good, either. That can help a lot.

  • Token

    Are you surprised? He thinks the D has a ton of talent.

  • GEagle

    Comparing what I think about Billy and what I think about RG3 is kind of pointless don’t you think?

    Im optimistic about certain Eagles and coaches, and pessimistic about others..

    Do you honestly think that I didn’t know much about Billy before we hired him? lol

  • BrickSquadMonopoly

    He means well.

  • GEagle

    we don’t have a lot of Talent? Look you guys can be as pessimistic as you want…but how the hell do any of us have any friggin clue how much of a young players potential will be reached this year? We are a team FILLED with young Talent….the majority of which is going to improve from the last time we saw them….This dynamic compounds itself when you go from a dysfunctional situation with bad coaching and a bad locker room, to a positive environment..

    I cant tell you HOW MUCH they will improve, but its extremely foolish to look at first and 2nd year players, and expect what you saw last season. Yes this new scheme isn’t an upgrade for everyone(cole,Curry), but for most of our most promising young players, the scheme change will be a godsend..

    I would be a fool to expect a top defense in 2013…but I seriously am expecting a very good defense in 2014, made up mostly of the players that will play THIS YEAR!!

    40 percent of our defense is young kids in their 1st and 2nd years…the other 40 percent are men, who are still young in their NFL careers… Unless a player has 3 years of NFL playing time under his belt, HE IS NOT DONE IMPROVING(if he is passionate and works hard)…The only defenders who I think its fair for me to judge are: Sopo, Cole, Meco…
    ..
    ever other player that makes up our defense, is NOT a finished product, and will continue to improve. People see these free agents we brought in, look at their age but don’t realize these guys are all young in their NFL careers. Barwin,Cary,Bradley these guys basically have two years of significant NFL experience under their belts…NONE of them have reached their ceilings yet as players..

    Xfactor FLETCHER COX!! This dude has all the ability and talent in the world. He might not become the monster he is destined to be til next year, but what if he arrives, THIS YEAR?
    If he takes even half the leap that JPP,JJ WATT, or Geno Atkins took in their 2nd season, he will command a ton of attention, making everyone elses job much easier.

    Yes, I am extremely high on Graham,Cox,Kendricks,Meco,Barwin,Boykin…That’s 6 players I can personally count on to make up a solid defense already in place for atleast the next 3 years!..

    We didn’t add any stud free agents, but most of the free agents are still on the upward swing of their development.

    Lets see:
    1)Cox 2nd year player 1st round pick
    2)Graham 4th year(really only 1 season of serious game time under his belt
    3)Cedrick Thorton.. 2nd year player
    4)Barwin…really only 2 years of serious game time under his belt
    5) Boykin..1year under his belt…How many nickel backs would you rather have over Boykin?
    6)Kendricks… 1 season under his belt and a player Im convinced will make a pro bowl in his next 3 seasons
    7)Cary…A guy with really only two seasons of playing time under his belt. Had some rough times, but improved and played his best ball at the end of the season
    8)Bradley Fletcher..only 2 years of real playing time. This dude is a better corner than most people think. His issues are Health, and silly mistakes like penalties…things that can be cleaned up.
    9) Chung..how many years of playing time does he have under his belt? 3?
    10) Talented guy..scheme killed him. If he gets his confidence back, he could become a capable centerfielder

    That’s 10 players who are going to get significant game time, who aren’t yet done growing into the players they will ultimately become(and I didn’t even mention rookies)…How do you know where their development will stop? How do you know ho much of their potential they will realize, and how much they will leave on the table? How do you know how little or how much the new scheme will impact them?

    Rome wasn’t built in a day, and I just watched us hit ROCK FRIGGIN BOTTOM on defense, so You DAMN RIGHT IM EXCITED ABOUT THE DEFENSIVE IMPROVEMENTS.
    Excitement level and optimism varies from 1 person to the next, and much of that has to do with out own personal expectations and what you are looking for…Im looking for the Eagles to lay a foundation this year on defense. Im looking for the players to Gel and Unite like 2002 Eagles defense. Im looking for us to develop our young talent…

    5 out of our starting front 7 are 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pics, none of which who are finished products yet? WE HAVE PLENTY OF TALENT!! How much of that plenty of TALENT gets realized by the players in the hands of these coaches is THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION! I have NO SB aspirations THIS SEASON. For me this season is about starting to develope our core for next year and 2015…and in that regard Im very pleased with what we have in place. I always talk about how the defense will have a rough first half of the season, but after the bye week, I expect the defense to play some decent ball and show the world that we are headed in the right direction…

    Atleast 75% of our defense is filled with young talent, and 25% are finished products. So to even try to predict how this defense will do the first half of the season is fanboy foolishness…So why would I feel the need to crap all over it before I even see it?

    I strongly believe that we have many pieces of an eventual TOP defense already in place. We had the worst defense in the NFL last year…How much improvement can you really expect in 1 season lol?.but when I look at where our defense was, at rock bottom Last year, and I now look around at all the young talent, high character, players from winning cultures that we have flooded this defense with, YOU DAMN RIGHT IM EXCITED!!! Because Im a realist who couldn’t POSSIBLY EXPECT MORE IMPROVEMENT THAN THIS IN ONE OFFSEASON riddled with Change!!!!. Im excited for the future of the defense, not necessarily September..and by the time the bye week arrives, I expect things to start looking promising…

    Joeff we both know we will still be here commenting in 2015..We will go back and re-hash this conversation, the July going into the 2015 season….and by then, we can get rid of all the free agents we signed this summer, and can draft about 10 new defenders, and my bet is that When we do have a top defense in 2015, it will be filled with most of the players we have TODAY, not a bunch of new pieces that need to be acquired next summer, and the offseason after that…I could be wrong. But it gets annoying to have half the people bitch about me being too pessimistic, while the other half call me a rosy optimist.

    I see LOADS OF POTENTIAL, in the players we have right now. You can act how every you chose, but me personally, I Don’t expect results over night, and Im not going to crap all over potential before I see how much of it ends up being realized. To each his own…

    I find it funny that so many people are realist about Foles, who know Last year is probably not the best indicator of who he will really be, yet these same people who have sense on Offense, have the audacity to try and judge young players who are still on the development phase of their career trajectory…

    If in 2015, our defense is Filled with new players, I will be the first person to say, that you were right, and I was wrong, just like I man up when ever a prediction doesn’t turn out to be true….But I am EXTREMELY EXCITED ABOUT THESE GROUP OF YOUNG PLAYERS and THE DEFENSIVE COACHING STAFF…

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    RG3 wasn’t grossly overrate. Shananhan is just a D*ck. And caused RG3 necessary injury. And I think RG3 is a FOOL for trying to come back this quickly. He will have a short career due to injury if anything – but the kid is good and playing the East only helps that.

  • knighn

    Just in case you haven’t seen it yet.
    “Doctors Clear RGIII’s Knee For Light Tearing”
    http://eaglesblog.net/2013/07/the-onion-on-rgiii/

  • Andy124

    With a team that’s not going to the playoffs, success needs to be defined in terms of player evaluation, player development, scheme installation, culture establishment and in our case specifically, coaches building chemistry, adapting to each other and adapting to the NFL. Bascially, things that set us up to win in the future. Not wins and losses this year.

  • knighn

    One: I didn’t present 2011 as a great defensive display. I did, however, feel that the 2010 season & post-season defense was overall adequate (as in: only giving up 21 points to Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers in the Post-Season. Giving up 21 points is not an issue. Scoring fewer than 21 points is.)
    Two: My issue was your statement that the Eagles haven’t had a good defense since 2004. My mind immediately went to the 2008 season where the Eagles were TOP 5 in both yards against and points against. If you said that the Eagles haven’t had a Top defense since 2008, you would have been far more accurate.

  • GEagle

    Who has the most TALENT on defense in our division? The convo is about TALENT, not Who’s defense will play the best on SEptember 8th….Who has the most Talent on Defense? and Who’s defense is positioned the best for the future in our division? UNLESS AN NFC EAST team is winning the SB this year, then the FUTURE is what concerns me!!!
    ….
    If I literally cant say that I wouldn’t trade our entire defensive personel for any team in the division’s….then why wouldn’t I be excited? DONT NEED A TOP DEFENSE IN 2013…What I need to see is gradual improvement from one months to the next, and Im optimistic that I will get to see that!!!
    .

  • aub32

    The way the 4-3 under has been explained is that with Kendricks playing on the weak side Cox will be over the guard and the OT will be responsible for Barwin. Kendricks should have much more room to use his speed and ability without as much interference from the O line as he had to deal with in the wide 9.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    You don’t know they are not going to the playoffs. Tell Chip Kelly he’s not going to the playoffs. Giants went to the playoffs 9-7 – there’s no reason we can’t do the same.

  • GiveMeABreak

    From your keyboard to God’s ears, right? I am glad to see you are excited about D. Further proof that there is somebody for everybody.

  • Token

    Im not gonna lie, theres no way im reading all that. Id rather get it straight from Spadaro rather than second hand through you.

    Do you realize how much young “talent” never develops every single year in the NFL? Especially on this team over the last 10+ years?

    Look you can be as optimistic as you wish. Thats what homers do. Judging by your style of writing, and by the whole everything Eagles is awesome and everyone else sucks, im guessing you are a very young fairly new fan. And thats cool, I think we have all been there at some point in our youth. Hell some Eagles fans never grow out of that phase. But eventually you have to start expanding your outlook. Be objective. Homers are nothing but moronic meat head fans. Dont be that.

    No objective mind can look at this D and see any stud other that Cox. And your theory is that everyone will improve drastically. How? From the great coaching of little Billy? A failed coach everywhere hes been? You think him being a glorified gofer at PIT gives him more credibility?

  • turf toe joes

    I agree whole-heartedly with you GEagle. Why not be optimistic. We got some young cats with “potential”. If they ready to ball, let them ball. The Andy Reid era is over. You gotta see what you got while moving forward. Our defensw sukked for awhile now. I’m all for letting the “yung dawgs” loose! i.e. Brandon graham, boykins, kendricks, etc etc. Realisticly, we may be a stud safety and cornerback away from a top 10 defense already.

  • Johnny Domino

    Couldn’t pass the “conditioning” test.

    [rim shot]

  • GEagle

    sorry, shouldn’t have called them Blitzburg…I meant Cowhers Steeler regime in General. I mentioned Tomlin, and I kind of put him on Ken’s side of the tree…with Labeau and Capers on the other side of the tree(but also at a higher level obviously)…

    Well Mr. Rice, If you do not enjoy my optimism, and prefer the angry, disgusted, pissed off side of my Gemeni persona, well right now, IM YOUR Guy…My Boy Benn, out with a knee injury. Grrrrrrr!!!

  • ReggieKush

    You’ve been watching too much NFL Network letting them decide who is elite and who is not. Brady is the best QB in the league period. But to say VIck doesn’t have Elite talent is ridiculous! No way around it. There was never a quarterback that produced like Vick. Im talking about his whole entire career not recalling the 2 past years. Either way the dude is a beast. So what he’s 33, there are many other quarterbacks who’s older but that isn’t talked about.

  • Media Mike

    ha ha ha ha ha. I love this “production”
    123 TD passes vs. (82 INTs 87 fumbles) 169 TOs.

  • greenblood20

    You are confused with talent and production. Elite Qbs make the throw or throw it away at the key times in a football game. Elite QB’s are elite MANGERS who can ALSO make all the throws. If you judge Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. w their athleticism you wouldn’t draft them. Your point is ridiculous and proves you have no idea what a real QB looks like, imo

  • aub32

    I am a big fan of Vick. I rooted for him in Atlanta and was really glad when he came here, especially after seeing his 2010 performance. However, outside of that year, Vick should not be mentioned in the Elite QB category. Vick is an Elite athlete but only a good QB. Elite QBs can win games in spite of having nothing else to work with, no defense or offensive skill players. Vick showed in 2011 that he could not do that. He put up points, but couldn’t overcome the woes of the defense. The team was falling apart last year, but Vick wasn’t exactly performing to an elite level either. You have to be realistic. You can say Vick has elite talent, but it takes more than physical ability to be a great QB. Hopefully this system can have him playing at an elite level.

  • ReggieKush

    okay, stats don’t tell the whole story of a football game. So many other things that factor into the numbers game

  • greenblood20

    Hey ReggieKush, i think you need to put down your copy of Madden 2005 and get with the real world 2013. Vick was never elite to begin with, but to to say he is, after two atrocious seasons in a row, is laughable. Do you actually watch the other teams in the NFL? Guys like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are franchise QBs. Guys like RGIII, Cam Newton, and Colin Kaepernick are the new “human highlight reels.” BTW, being a human highlight reel doesn’t make you a great QB; just so you are aware.

  • greenblood20

    Too much money if he was to be cut. Look at his contract structure and you will see why. I think he cost them 5+ mil or something if he is cut and/or traded. He will be on this roster this year. Next year is a different story…

  • JofreyRice

    I think in a perfect world, you’d want a guy that’s more athletic at OLB. Cole’s here because Howie paid him last year. That’s just the reality of the NFL. Unless you don’t think the guy can give you ANYTHING, you’re not going to cut or trade him for that much dead money. Even as just a situational passrusher, you’d be getting something back from Cole for all that dead money.

    Cole’s best case scenario might resemble something like what happened to Aaron Kampman when the Packers brought in Dom Capers to transition to 3-4. Kampman, like Cole, was really a guy that worked to get his sacks through tenacity & strength more than raw athletic ability. Also, being that Kampman was 30 at the time, and had spent his career as a 4-3 end, there was a lot of skepticism concerning his ability to play in space. Capers understood Kampman’s limitations, and found ways to have him rush the QB, primarily, rather than drop in coverage. He was able to do this, partially, because he had Clay Matthews on the other side, who was pretty competent doing a number of things (hopefully Barwin can do this, at a much lower level, of course). Now, Kampman didn’t put up a probowl season or anything, but they got pressure and sacks from him until he tore his ACL that year.

    My hope for Cole is that they swap Graham & McCoy as backup OLBs, rotate Cole and Graham a lot in the base, and give Cole an opportunity as a traditional 7 Technique End in their 4-2-5 package, where Cole and Barwin put their hands on the ground. One of my favorite aspects of Cole’s game is the way he play(ed) the run, in a traditional 4-3. Washburn moved him out to the 9 technique, and changed him from a read and react player to an edge-rusher only. Moving him to OLB moves him farther away from the ball. It’s affected his ability to get after ballcarriers off the snap–which is really disappointing.

    One of my favorite Eagles, but yeah, at some point relatively soon, they’ll cut ties. He’s really a square peg that they’re going to have to force into a round hole for awhile.

  • aub32

    Cut him for what? Money aside, which others have pointed out, what young guy are you making room for? This team isn’t exactly brimming with young OLB talent, and to this point Graham has looked worse than Cole in space. So why are you calling for his release, and what are you hoping to get in return?

  • #7

    Give it up man. They only see numbers. Just let Vick prove it on the field

  • Broadcasting Wisdom

    Like… playoff wins?

  • BirdGang

    hahaahaha….I am going to ignore everything you say considering you have a pic a Vick. But no…NFL network says people like Flacco and Eli are Elite. NO WAY. Vick is a solid QB but not elite.

  • MAC

    Do wins and loses mean a lot in football? Would you say 2 playoff wins in a 12 year career, both coming in same season is “elite”? Wins and loses are undoubtedly the most important measure of a QB’s career. Two playoff wins total is not elite. Please tell me I am wrong there.

  • Token

    Yea, It would cost them money this year to get rid of him, never gonna happen. Next year its still a large hit of dead money, but at least they are saving a couple mil against the cap. There is zero chance he is here past next year. His contract goes crazy after that.

    For a team in this position, it makes no sense starting a guy like Cole. He has regressed and is not in the teams future plans. But, Im pretty sure even if Graham looks head and shoulders above him in the next two games Cole would still start.

  • Token

    lol what more is there to see in football than production? His spirit?

  • BirdGang

    Im not saying Vick is washed up…but to use the word Elite to descibe him….not so much. Elite QB’s always perform at a high level and their status as an elite qb has never been questioned. Have you ever heard anyone question…P Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees?

  • aub32

    Great break down. I took away the exact same message. Mobile or not, Nick Foles has no reason even being put in the same sentence as Brady. So I don’t see why someone would draw that he was comparing the two unless they are just overly defensive about Foles. I think the one correlation that can be implied is he’s saying that without an elite passer, which no one on the teams is, mobility could help make up for the lack of passing ability. This was my takeaway, but as you said, it’s not a very well constructed article. Too many writers are to concerned with getting articles out without actually delivering news or making a point.

  • Dutch

    He can’t be considered elite by any definition given he’s never played to long in any one system under any one coach. He’s pretty much since being drafted been in transition. Coaches were trying to measure Vick by throwback Quarterbacks, instead of doing with Vick was Beamer did with the kid at Virginia Tech, but Vick paved the path for all the QBs behind him who are duel threat options. There were a lot of guys with speed and an arm like Vick before he was drafted where reduced to kickoff and punt returns.

  • Token

    Yea its weird isnt it? How can a adult be so adoring of a single player. Maybe its Marcus, who knows?

  • EaglePete

    Ill be watching, no way are Vick and Rivers even in the same class as Rogers, Brees and Ryan, palease. Check the records at the end of the season. Oh wait, its a team game now right. I wouldnt hold my breath on that prediction.

  • EaglePete

    I kind of agree here but if you look at Bradys skill positions, RB and WR its nothing amazing yet he continually produces and will so again this season with no names. Totally on board with coaching being huge and also is a large part of his success. Brees is there for winning one like Rogers and continually putting up top rate offensive numbers. Those guys move the chains at will sometimes it seems. Also good coaching there.

  • #7

    Oh! That makes your opinion more valid? Also, if you look at the stats, Vick’s numbers against the blitz aren’t bad. Get the Minnesota game out of your head. It’s been 3 years

  • Dutch

    there are no changes unless Brady signs off on them. Brady has control of the game plan meeting in New England and input on all the offensive strategies, but he’s earned that. If you’re a coordinator in New England, and your idea is rejected by Brady what are your options?

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Exactly. The guys we think of “elite” have been in the same system/team/coach most of their careers – Peyton with the Colts forever. Brady with Patriots. Aaron Rodgers with Green Bay.

    Consistency goes a LONG way in making someone “Elite”

    Steve Young – How’d he look before he got to San Fran
    Farve before Green Bay?

  • Dutch

    It’s purely exaggerated that many eagles fans want Vick gone, that’s nowhere near the truth. realistically there are a few among the hordes of Eagles fanatics calling for him to be gone and exaggerating the capabilities of Nick Foles.

    Phila is such a corrupt town the people are interested in watching a competition unfold where it’s evident based on the results the best candidate wins. I’d like that to be extended throughout the Eagles roster.

    Beside, by a 2 to 1 margin on Philly.com, the poll results favored Vick over Foles

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    ” But he aint winning anything either.”

    lol.

    2 years in the league – but you know he’s not winning anything either?

    Keep digging that hole.

  • MAC

    Honestly I agree about doing to much. I think that has been one of main reasons Vick has had limited success overall in his career. He has always had talent and potential to be elite, but he tries to put to much on himself and trust his athletic ability and arm to much. I am not being a hater, but it is hard to change those habits at this point in his career. I hope somehow Kelly does fix that mentality, but let’s be honest that is part of Vick’s make up as a QB.

    It is a very respectable attribute and shows he is the ultimate competitor, but in the NFL with parody teams are to close in talent when you get into playoffs. The teams that turn it over more will almost always loose. It’s why Vick can be maddening, bc at times you look and say this guy is ridiculous. Also at times you say that is ridiculous decision. I compare hoping Vick will stop trying to play hero ball to the same idea that Vick needs to learn to slide feet first. Even though it seems like an obvious fix, somethings are just to ingrained in people bc they have been doing (successfully many times) there whole life.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “Either way if Vick had played at elite level then the coaching changes wouldn’t have been necessary.”

    *rolls eyes*

    Some of you all don’t think before you speak.

  • Dutch

    Mora should have been fired, if not for abusing the smelling salts, for trying to muzzle Vick like Andy Reid did the last two seasons. The Kid in 2004 just lead the Falcons to the NFC Championship game, Mora came in and tried to completely remake Vick and as a result missed the Playoffs the next two years. By By… Taking the ball out of Vick’s hand created a scenario where the Falcons running attack lost it’s advantage and was no longer effective.

  • Token

    Is that a wrong statement? What does it have to do with color. Im sorry that you are constantly thinking along those lines. But thats a you problem.

    Vick has ALWAYS been a one read and run guy throughout the last 10 years. The difference now is that his running skills have eroded. He cant evade people like he used to.

    Newton is a little different in that his offense builds around his running ability to an extent. But when you are a QB and you are running over 100 times every year and your completion % is under 60, that is not a good thing.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    I’m thinking along those lines?

    YOU said that mess. Not me. lol.

    That’s how YOU think. I didn’t even call you a racist…you came out and said that…those are your issues. Not mine.

    It explains the lens through which you see things. Priceless. Like I said.

  • #7

    One read guy? Damn lol. Tell me why the WRs want Vick to be the starter? Why would they want a “one read guy” as their QB?

  • Token

    Reading comprehension isnt your forte. I was talking about Tebow.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “Reading comprehension isnt your forte.”

    - Writing coherent sentences isn’t yours.

    “I was talking about Tebow.”

    - I stand corrected.

  • Token

    Interesting take.

    Im hopeful that the majority of people on here are of higher intelligence. Its pretty clear who injected race into the conversation.

  • Mr. Wu

    That’s no excuse…you disgust me!

    lol just playing

  • MAC

    That is the eye test and not other QB in the NFL passes the eye test better than Rodgers. His accuracy, arm strength, decision making, and ability to throw from any position with any pressure coming is unmatched. Aaron Rodgers is the poster boy for what an Elite QB is in this league. Just like Calvin Johnson is elite as a WR.
    Watch Rodgers and watch Vick. I am not taking personal shots at Vick, but they do not even compare at all. Even last week practicing with the Patriots Sheil and Tim said Brady was carving up defense and looks like he is in a different class than the Eagles. That includes Vick. Brady and Rodgers get it done consistently and have for a long time. Vick has been anything but consistent.

  • #7

    Yeah I agree. I just have a feeling this year will be different. His back is pretty much SLAMMED against the wall. He had to produce or sit and I like that.

  • Dutch

    Roddy White today is not the Roddy White from before 2007, that’s asinine to even suggest. However, Roddy White mature into the player his is today from playing with a pocket QB, and since Vick is not a pocket QB Roddy may have never developed to what he’s become. The same can’t be said for the Tight End. Crumpler and Vick were the Falcons passing attack. Yours is the theory that got young Mora delivered from his position in Atlanta.

  • Token

    Exactly right.

    Elway is another bad example. These are all guys who ran less than 50 times an entire season. Elway ran a combined 21 times in all SB appearances for hardly any yards.

    Hes trying to compare them to players that run over 100 times a year out of the QB position.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Steve Young STILL holds records for rushing as a QB – boy how people like to change history.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    And I repeat:

    “That fact that you have to pull from so far back to try and make your point, kind of helps the point that running QBs dont win SBs. Its just a fact. Its no dig at black QBs.”

    AND

    “Newton and Vick are running QBs throughout their career. They look to run and play sandlot football. ”

    But I injected race into the conversation.

    LMAO!

    OK

  • GEagle

    Yeah, I think Celeks blocking is his saving grace for one more season, and if he isn’t on the 2013 roster it will be because Howie traded him. Yes he is on the decline but he still has value, so I don’t see any way we would cut him at the end of August..

    However, I highly doubt Celek will be an Eagle past the 2013 season. Colt Lyeria will be on his way to Philly next May, and Celek will be on his way out!
    ..
    Could see Celek landing safely in KC

  • Token

    Im still confused as to why you think you are making some kind of point with those quotes.

    Is it out of bounds now to talk about black players? Damn, theres a bunch of racists in these comments if thats the case.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “Is it out of bounds now to talk about black players? Damn, theres a bunch of racists in these comments if thats the case.”

    Keep talking…you’re like the gift that keeps on giving.

    lol

  • #7

    Token showed his true colors a long time ago

  • MAC

    Thank you for pointing out Green Bay defense comment was just wrong. Also I couldn’t agree more with your example of seeing Jackson or other WR running open, but not getting ball as an example of Vick vs Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc. . Not attacking Vick personally, but I think it’s fairly obvious Vick is a good QB, but not in same class as those guys. It’s not an opinion really, its fact and indisputable unless you have the biggest rose colored Vick glasses ever.
    By the way I am impressed at your unbiased opinion lately on Vick and the QB situation. You have always made solid points to back up your arguments. Just we don’t always agree on Vick as the Eagles QB, but I respect you showing no biase.

  • MAC

    Either way man when you throw 45td’s and 6int’s in 2011 and then 39 Td’s to 8 INT’s in 2012 your doing a great job with the football in general. It’s not even close between Rodgers and Vick. Come on man no disrespect but that is just obvious.Stats are not everything, but his wins and losses far outweigh Vick ever also. Rodgers is in a different class than most QB’s in NFL and Vick is definitely one of them.

  • #7

    What? Vick is a lightning rod for criticism. You’re on these threads everyday and you’re a major part of it.

  • Token

    The excitement of a new coaching staff is tempered by the idea that I may have to watch the same awful QB behind center again.

    Id prefer to throw Foles or Barkley out there and make sure of whether they suck or not this season.

    If they do…. O well, we would be in prime position to get Teddy Bridgewater.

  • MAC

    Really? What is wrong with that statement in a QB driven league?

    This coming from the poster saying Rodgers success is due in part to the teams defense. Other than super bowl year Green Bay defense has been in bottom 5-10. Rodgers threw 45 td’s and 6 int’s in 2011. In 2012 threw 39 td’s and 8 int’s.

    Seriously the fact remains that when a QB plays elite his team for the most part succeeds. Try to find me couple examples that this is not true in? Vick coaches were fired bc teams record or production was not good enough. That is a direct reflection on the QB more than any other player on a team. Not saying there were no other factors. Granted many of the down years were bc Vick was injured, but that’s all part of what a QB is judged on. Wins/losses and coaches don’t get fired if team wins. Teams win in most cases if QB plays elite. Therefore no need to deal with constant new coaches or offensive systems. I thought my point was self explanitory, but clearly I forgot some people need it spelled out.

  • cliff henny

    if celek keeps dropping them, and harbor makes plays, bet kelly sees less difference in their blocking ability. again, not calling for celek to be cut, one of my more fav players over past 5 yrs, but he stunk last yr and is still dropping balls. better be tremendous blocker if you want to be a bad hands TE in kelly’s offense.

  • Adam

    My point has been proven. Say anything Vick and a Vick supporter comes out swinging. To you guys he can do no wrong, and there’s always an excuse.

  • BIGJES

    you and 4 people like this yet you race as a adjective to describe Celek isn’t that racist?

  • Adam

    …. what?

  • Maggie

    Not being an American, I hopefully can be a little more objective. Personally I don’t give a rat’s behind about skin colour. It’s like saying you can’t open a Christmas present because the wrapping paper is the wrong colour! Yes, I do know the history. If all of you Americans would get over yourselves, you would do just that, Relegate it TO history, instead of going on and on about hurts, real or imagined. And you ALL actually think you are in some way superior to the other 7 billion people in the world. This is a football forum, where people are identified by their physical characteristics. There are obvious characteristics which may be mentioned or may not. Again, get over yourselves. We are all human and sometimes we ALL screw up.

  • #7

    So we’re even. As soon as I say Foles’s passes looks like a feather floating in the air, @Adam comes out swinging.

    You shouldn’t be offended since you do the same exact thing…everyday

  • Adam

    Please point out to me where I disagreed with anyone saying Foles lacked arm strength last year. I’ll wait here.

    Offended? That’s funny.

  • GEagle

    Wtf is the point in mentioning that Celek is white? Did you think you were clearing up some confusion for us? Were some of us under the impression that he was black?

    Society never improves because we have people that think like you. just the fact that Celeks skin color popped in your head is a serious problem. get Help, until you do, I sincerely hope you aren’t reproducing

  • BIGJES

    you segregated race why does it matter if he is white or black?

  • All In Eagles

    Haha, there is a decent chance you may flip. Philips is probably toast and Wolff is too young, also Coleman had a great ST performance last year If I recall. Not defending him but you may be forced to flip.

  • GEagle

    I can’t disagree, but in that case don’t you think Howie can get some value for him in return instead of just cutting him…Dangle him in front of teams who’s TE’s have gotten hurt like the Patriots or the Ravens, and you don’t think Howie could get value?
    ..
    Who is the bIlls TE? Lol….

  • #7

    Doesn’t matter and I’m not going digging for you sir. You seem to be offended that anyone would think that Vick is any good as your boy Foles is getting that a.. handed to him in this “competition”

  • Adam

    Celek is 28 years old, in the prime of his career. His best days are in no way behind him.

  • All In Eagles

    Haha, if you are so offended by that that you need to drop a wtf then you need help sir. It’s pansies like yourself that make this world so sensitive and fuel country wide debates over nothing. Get over it.

  • #7

    If he’s dropping passes and that was what he was known for (at first), why would anyone trade anything of value for him

  • cliff henny

    sure, better, but he still has ceiling. that’s why kelly and howie get the big bucks, to judge where it is. to me, today, he sounds like a PS/7th d-line de-activated guy that could grow into servicable backup. not a thing wrong with that, we need plenty of those guys. happily give him another yr to grow.

  • GEagle

    Lol, you do realize that there are a lot of people that know this game very very well that think Celek is one of the, if not The Best blocking TE in football? So, the TE who has led the league in TEs with plays over 20 yards, who also happens to be one of the best blocking TE in the game, won’t even get you a 7th round pick in return? Lol….interesting

  • #7

    I see teams trying to lowball to get him personally. this guys should be called stone hands

  • cliff henny

    he stunk last yr, and he’s not getting any better so far this summer-i know you’ve heard about all his drops. you are hoping he’s in his prime. i’m seeing a player getting worse than the one i saw in ’10 and ’11. i root again no eagle, he needs to step his play up.

  • GEagle

    Thats certainly a fair assessment…but we still need ATleast a 6th lineman, and I haven’t seen enough yet to be comfortable saying that Damien wouldn’t be more valuable on our 2013 roster than Dixon or Clfton. I think Kruger is too raw to place on the roster ahead of a somewhat polished overachiever like Squares…so the kid will have to outplay the two big boys if he is going to make this roster….

    have you listend to the Squares interview yet from PE? if you haven’t, you gotta get on it when you have a chance. Talk is cheap, but he is an impressive young man

  • Andy124

    I like Celek, but that would be great. Just so long as we don’t include Kinne.

  • #7

    Yep well said. Celek was one of my favorites. Not sure why he can’t catch consistently anymore

  • cliff henny

    no way! think kelly has kinne doing the laundry, inflating the balls, filling up waters bottles, whore wrangling for shady, listening to d-jax spit fire…the guy is a busy man

  • BIGJES

    you are calling him a flower?

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    No that’s not what I said.

    I CLEARLY said that Brady is likely as good no matter where you put him but since he’s only been with the Patriots we don’t know.

    There’s no knock on Brady in that – he hasn’t played anywhere else for anyone else. And being that good often comes with a certain level of stability.

    Woulda made the exact same comment about Manning – but he’s now with the Broncos.

    “Sure, but Brady’s adaptations have been dramatic.”

    Brady has been with the same team and same coach since he was drafted. Offensive schemes may have changed but the basics haven’t. So no – those “adaptations” aren’t drastic.

  • BIGJES

    actually read somewhere that his drop % is right on with top TE’s in the league Graham with N.O. had a higher drop rate

  • Adam

    Yeah, his drop rate isn’t that bad, it’s just been poor timing when he does drop passes. A couple TD’s I think, and a few 3rd down conversions.

  • cliff henny

    with graham’s ability, i’d give him some leeway if he was an eagle.

  • #7

    “You think me saying that Vick isn’t great means I don’t think he’s any good at all”

    Yes, that’s pretty much what you say everyday. You have absolutely nothing positive to say at all about Vick and you do just that..

    “Your man crush on Vick can’t make you see anything objectively.”

    That’s what I’m talking about. There is no man crush and your little girly remarks like that is why you and I can never have a sensible debate.

    “Why isn’t he blowing Foles out of the water if Vick is so amazing and Foles is so terrible? Shouldn’t even be close right?”

    HOW DO YOU KNOW HE’S NOT? Because a sportswriter said so? It’s all speculation. You say that you want Foles to start and he’s smarter than Vick, etc etc etc, why doesn’t Foles have a “slight edge”? I see that we have to go off of what Shiel and others are saying, THAT VICK IS WINNING, but at the end of the day, its what CHIP says. They’re playing it out on the field and splitting reps evenly. Your QB Foles is getting every chance to win. WTH is wrong with support who I think is a better QB? That’s what you do, and anyone who supports Vick is dumb.

    Quit your crying and if you don’t like my posts just ignore them man.

    What I can’t wait to see is the excuses you come up with when Vick wins and how you MINIMIZE Vick’s win. And you’re damn right I’m going to call you out on it

  • BIGJES

    to me seems like he always dropped the easy ones but caught the hard ones

  • #7

    At least JofreyRice is sensible. @ehmacd:disqus …I can’t even say on this blog without getting banned

  • Andy124

    Geez, neither one of you mentioned me. I must not be trying hard enough. :)

  • #7

    Couldn’t agree more. The basics are the same. i forgot to mention that to @JofreyRice:disqus

  • #7

    Amateur

  • #7

    Are you being serious?

  • greenblood20

    Actually you shouldn’t expect more than three seconds as an NFL QB. Why don’t you actually learn about the sport sweetheart before you go off spouting personal beliefs that you try and pass as wisdom…Consider it dealt with. GO back to doing the laudry lol

  • greenblood20

    3 seconds. Know yer facts before spouting off…go get dinner ready lol

  • greenblood20

    BTW, Vick holding the ball too long is a commentary on previous years of football, not this preseason. Please learn to read posts and understand them fully before replying. It just wastes my time. The line was awful but even “experienced football writers” like Ray DIdinger commented that Vick held the ball too long last season. Thinking that all “experienced football writers” know what they are talking about is laughable, btw…

  • Adam

    Oh wow, it must be really mean then!

  • Andy124

    Can’t decide which smart-assed reply I want to go with:

    1) look at this guy, can’t help himself but to comment on my posts
    or
    2) you have a list? I think your give-a-shit level might be a bit too high.

    Side note, one thing you don’t seem to have figured out about me is that I’ll joke around with people that I disagree with, even if we’ve gotten to the point of snarkiness before. BBaaS understands that I think. It’s just the internet.

  • #7

    It’s all good man

  • #7

    You betcha

  • GEagle

    Hahahahaha TOO MUCH for an Ignorant person to read lol. SHOCKER!!!! Way to break stereotypes lol

  • GEagle

    Definitely agree that Kruger needs more protecting…However, if Square keeps showing up on tape like he did on Friday, then I would feel much more comfortable faking a Tonya Harding attack to his knee and placing him on IR for the year

  • JofreyRice

    team/system are fundamentally different, and that difference is germane to your point, that Brady can’t be evaluated objectively because he’s been “been in the same system”. You’re right, I can’t help but point out your errors!

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    lol.

    And even when I tell you i was using them synonymously…you still continue.

    lol/smh

  • Maggie

    Check out philly.com. Stats on dropped balls, completions, number of snaps, etc. Don’t know why some of you keep on about Celek, when the facts do not support your biases.

  • Maggie

    You had better check out a piece on philly.com about Celek, among others. During the last 4 years, he compares very favourably among the other receivers. Take a look, then check your biases.

  • nicksaenz1

    They’re nothing alike. That’s a horrible comparison.

  • nicksaenz1

    Peyton Manning has thrown 16 or more INTs 5 times in his career and he’s elite. Another horrible argument.

  • JofreyRice

    Oh, so you purposefully make statements that are inaccurate, equating things that are not equal? In your world, does an orange a day keep the Doctor away?

    They’re different things, and you know it, but can’t admit you’re wrong. It’s funny to me.

  • greenblood20

    What is up w your profile pic?

  • #7

    Nothing is up with my profile pic

  • #7

    I think it’s funny to be honest with you.

  • greenblood20

    OK. I respect that lol

  • greenblood20

    BTW, I mean that honestly. That is a great response lol