What They’re Saying About the Eagles


Here’s this week’s roundup of what the national media are saying about the Eagles.

Peter King of The MMQB released his mock today. He’s got the Eagles giving up their second-round pick to move up to No. 15 and take LSU WR Odell Beckham Jr.:

A bit of a risky move, because the Eagles probably could have stayed at 22 and gotten Marqise Lee, another object of their affections. But the versatility of Beckham—who can play outside and slot and on returns—makes him a good replacement for DeSean Jackson. And cheaper.

Greg A. Bedard of The MMQB projects what teams should do. He gives the Eagles USC WR Marqise Lee:

DeSean who? That will quickly be the sentiment of Eagles fans if they pick the more versatile Lee, who is also excellent with the ball in his hand.

Daniel Jeremiah of NFL.com thinks Alabama safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix could fall to the Eagles:

The Eagles need more playmakers in their secondary and Clinton-Dix would be an ideal fit.

ESPN.com’s Todd McShay has the Birds taking Louisville safety Calvin Pryor at No. 22:

Wide receiver and cornerback are two other possibilities here, but Pryor also would fill a need at strong safety next to free-agent pickup Malcolm Jenkins, and he’s a good value at this point in the draft. Pryor is an intimidating presence in the middle of the field with his willingness to deliver the big hit, and he also is capable of holding up in deep-half zone and deep-third coverage. He’s a tone-setter.

Patrick Daugherty of Rotoworld ranks all 32 NFL owners. He has Jeffrey Lurie second, behind only New England’s Robert Kraft:

You know the Philly-fan stereotype. These are battery whippin’, Santa Claus booin’ hooligans. Win, or else. The truth is far less sinister, of course. Yes, Philly fans have had their share of regrettable incidents, but name a major American city without regrettable fan incidents, and you’re naming a major American city that doesn’t exist. Philly phanatics are not the boogeymen years of confirmation bias have made them out to be. All that being said, Philly is a tough place to play. One of America’s oldest and most populous cities, it has won just two world titles since Ronald Reagan was first elected president, neither of which came from the Eagles. These are proud people hungering for trophies. It is in this climate that Lurie has displayed remarkable patience, sticking with Andy Reid through thick and thin, and sticking with his most recent coaching search until he got the man he wanted. That man, Chip Kelly, could easily prove to be the league’s next Belichick. Lurie may not have a Super Bowl to show for his patience and home-run hires, but playing under the microscope of the fishbowl NFC East, he does have seven division titles in the past 13 seasons. Even in a knee-jerk environment like the NFL, good things come to those who wait. Sooner or later, Lurie will get his title, and it will be deserved.

Gayle Saunders of Rotoworld thinks the Eagles could go with Indiana WR Cody Latimer at No. 22:

Some may say this is too early for Latimer to come off the board, but Latimer gives the Eagles the big bodied target at 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds with speed (4.44 forty) to match. Latimer played in an up-tempo, no-huddle system at Indiana which is a huge plus. Hope he likes shakes.

Peter Schrager of FoxSports.com has the Eagles taking Virginia Tech CB Kyle Fuller:

Most mock drafts have the Eagles going with a receiver here, but with such a loaded class of wideouts, I think Chip Kelly can find a few gems in later rounds. Cornerback isn’t as easy a position to fill. Fuller’s rocketed up draft boards in recent weeks and could go as high as the top 15. A Virginia Tech standout, he’s got good NFL size and can make an impact right off the bat. Comes from an NFL family (brothers Vincent and Corey) and can contribute on special teams.

Pete Prisco of CBSSports.com re-grades the 2011 draft and gives the Eagles a D:

The Eagles blew their first three picks on guard Danny Watkins, safety Jaiquawn Jarrett and corner Curtis Marsh. Ouch. The Eagles had nine other picks in that draft, and the only real hits were fourth-round kicker Alex Henery and sixth-round center Jason Kelce, who is one of the better centers in the league.

Dane Brugler of CBSSports.com thinks Georgia Tech OLB Jeremiah Attaochu could be available for the Eagles in the second round:

Chip Kelly wants to upgrade the pass rush position and Attaochu is a very talented rush linebacker who would be a steal this late.

Charley Casserly of NFL.com has the Eagles going with Notre Dame defensive lineman Louis Nix:

CB and WR are needs, too, but I can’t get the Saints game from last season’s playoff out of my mind — New Orleans controlled the line of scrimmage running the ball.

Bill Barnwell of Grantland makes what he considers the top two perfect picks for each team. He goes with Pryor and Florida State WR Kevlvin Benjamin to the Eagles:

You would forgive the Eagles for just picking six safeties with their six picks and figuring everything else out later, given how they’ve struggled there since Brian Dawkins left for Denver. After adding Malcolm Jenkins from New Orleans, Pryor would slot in as the strong safety, likely from Week 1 on. Benjamin is hardly a DeSean Jackson replacement, but given Chip Kelly’s known fetish for enormous playmakers on offense, the 6-foot-5 receiver could be a downfield weapon more in the Alshon Jeffery vein. (They better take De’Anthony Thomas later, though.)

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  • engwrite

    I sure hope not. I don’t want a first round receiver. It would feel as if–yeah, I too I’m sick of the DeSean talk–we took our first round pick and gave it to the Redskins. And to use a 2nd rounder as well would be rubbing it in. Lets hope a top defensive player falls our way or better yet, lets hope we trade back and get an extra pick. I’m a firm believer in the more choices the better.

    • Andy

      Well it would actually be like we gave our first round pick and a headache to the Redskins for $10 million.

      • ochospantalones

        Strangely, I still have not received my rebate check from Jeffrey Lurie. When did you get yours?

        • Andy

          Mine came the week after DeSean signed with the Skins. It was in a plain brown paper wrapper.

          • ochospantalones

            Ah, I thought that was for, uh, other activities I am involved in. Now I know!

    • knighn

      The Eagles will take at least one WR in the first two rounds. Accept this. And feel free to come back and let me know if I was wrong. If the Eagles can take a solid WR in the first 2 rounds, it’s about picking up a quality player for the future, versus letting go of one who had no future with the team.

      As for DeSean, I see 3 main problems with him:
      1) Money – he made too much for what he was worth. The rest of the NFL basically concurred by NOT offering the Eagles a draft pick for his $10 million plus salary this year. The Redskins, who historically have overpaid their Free Agents, further confirmed it by only offering DeSean a 3-year $24 million contract.
      2) Size. Bad height / weight / build / injury history combination. In part due to this combination DeSean has already suffered two concussions in the NFL. Every year where DeSean doesn’t miss games due to injury is basically a miracle. I can’t imagine he will sustain this. Furthermore, it seems that his size was a bad fit for Chip Kelly, who expects his WRs to actually block well for the run game.
      3) Attitude / Brains. No one should have to tell a player:
      – Don’t miss your exit interview.
      – Don’t talk about salary, even if asked, when you are only two years into your contract and your team just finished a better-than-expected season in the new head coach’s first year.
      – Don’t flash gang signs.
      And has DeSean learned? Apparently, someone still needs to tell him:
      – Don’t miss OTAs with your new team…. and if you have to miss it, don’t rub it in by posting pictures of your vacation while the rest of your team is sweating it out.

      • ochospantalones

        I will never understand why fans care if DeSean was overpaid. It’s not your money. Whether DeSean gets the money or Jeffrey Lurie gets it is totally immaterial to me. It’s not like they used the savings to sign other players. Unless Lurie is gonna send me a check for a share of DeSean’s contract, I don’t care. If he made the team better, he was worth Jeffrey Lurie’s money. If you think points 2 and 3 mean DeSean didn’t actually make the team better, then you don’t need point 1.

        What they did get by cutting DeSean is cap room in 2015. That has value to the fans if they actually use it, which remains to be seen.

        • Eagles1018

          I will never understand why fans care if DeSean was overpaid. It’s not your money.

          Have to respectfully disagree. I thought ticket sales, concessions and merchandise was used to pay at least a portion of their salaries? Technically it is our money, no? If you’re referring to how it’s divided then you’re correct we have no say over that.

          • ochospantalones

            It was your money until you spent it on the Eagles. Now it’s Jeffrey Lurie’s, and he’s not giving any of it back no matter what the team’s salary level is.

            I think it is pretty clear that all of those costs you list are driven by fan demand (i.e. the Eagles charge what they think the fans will pay) and not the costs of running the team. The price of Eagles tickets, merchandise, concessions, etc. does not rise or fall based on the Eagles’ player spending budget. The Eagles are more or less football monopolists in this town, and they price accordingly. The Eagles are highly profitable, and they never cut prices- there is no reason to think any savings will be passed on to the fans at all. The question in all of these owner-player money disputes is how to divide up the surplus money generated from operating as part of a profitable cartel (i.e. the NFL). It is pretty clear in this case that all of the surplus from cutting DeSean goes to Lurie (or to the taxman, to the likely very limited extent Lurie is unable to find a way to protect the extra profit).

            Once I’ve spent my Eagles/NFL money, to the limited extent I have an opinion over who it should end up with I’ll generally take the less rich guy, which in this case is DeSean.

        • Andy

          The cap room is pretty crucial. This team has the benefit of a starting QB on his rookie contract, but they are going to need a lot of cap space, including what they roll over from this year and what they cleared by dumping DeSean, to retain Nick Foles, Fletcher Cox, and Brandon Boykin.

          • ochospantalones

            The cap room is a totally legitimate reason to support the move. There are two problems with it though:

            1. The jury is still out on whether and how they use it. They haven’t actually used the cap room yet, so until they do and actually spend to or near the cap limit in 2015 it’s a bit premature to celebrate getting the cap room. That doesn’t make it a bad move, but it does make it incomplete.

            2. If you don’t accept the addition-by-subtraction theory with DeSean, which I do not, trading an effective player for future cap room sounds an awful lot like rebuilding to me. I think you can make a reasonable case that that is a smart move, but it clashes with the triumphalism you hear from most Eagles fans.

        • knighn

          The Eagles are our team. We invest in the team with time and money (when we spend on tickets, merchandise and even our cable / satellite bill). Without the fans, there is no money to pay the team. While I only invest a fraction of the total pool, I like to think that the total pool will be invested wisely. In that way it is very much like the stocks where I only own a small share of the company. Unlike the stocks in which I invest, the return is not in money but rather in entertainment and in wins.
          The savings ultimately will be used to sign other players in the future, most importantly the QB. If Lurie was truly interested in pocketing the money, he would NOT allow Roseman to carry over the Cap space from year to year. The carry-over money essentially allows the Eagles to spend OVER the cap in a given year. In spite of the “$20 million in cap space” the Eagles are already spending over $130 million in 2014, or less than $3 million under the $133 million cap. Where is all of the pocketed money you were talking about? http://overthecap.com/nfl-cash-space.php?Year=2014

          The Eagles will utlimately end up carrying over money again. If all goes well this season, they will use a portion of that money to extend Nick Foles. Not sure if you heard, but it’s pretty expensive to pay a franchise QB these days.

          So yes: point 1 was necessary. Points 2 and 3 only serve to reinforce point 1. I’d ultimately rather the Eagles spend my portion of the money on players that will be part of the future of the team (when the Eagles are contending for a Super Bowl) than a player whose size or stupidity would have ultimately proven a problem for the team.

          • cliff henny

            rollover is even more important now that teams have to spend 89% of the unadjusted cap. by smartly managing rollover for last 2 or3yrs, Eagles actually end up having more money than most teams. plus, having additional space allows for flexibility in contract negotiations.

          • ochospantalones

            The Eagles are not “our” team. It’s Jeffrey Lurie’s team. We are not investors, we are customers. Investors get a say in the governance of the entity in which they invest (though not much of one when it comes to American publicly traded companies). The Eagles fans can have a say by not paying anymore, but Lurie is equally free to then move the team to L.A. (to the extent he is not prohibited from doing so by his lease at the Linc).

            To reiterate: the 2015 cap room is genuinely useful, if they use it to re-up Foles, Boykins, Kendrick, Cox etc. The 2014 savings are not useful to the fans. Before they cut DeSean, they were going to spend $10.5 million on improving the team in 2014 which they are no longer spending. There is no reason you should consider that good in it’s own right. If the rest of the move makes the team better, then great.

          • Richard Colton

            Interesting semantic argument Ocho. I’ll disagree. Jeffery Lurie owns the franchise. The city and the fans own the team. Say he breaks the lease at the Linc and moves to LA. Any players under contract move with him. The team name and colors stay here.

          • ochospantalones

            That’s not actually true. Lurie owns the franchise, which means he owns the rights to the name, uniforms, etc. All of the franchise’s intellectual property. The cases where a city has retained the rights to the name, uniforms, etc all involved negotiation between the city and the owner, and usually intervention by the league. It’s a right the owners are generally willing to give up (why would the Oklahoma City Thunder want to be able to call themselves the Seattle SuperSonics?) in exchange for being able to leave, but it’s not required.

            The Cleveland Browns got to keep the Browns’ intellectual property as part of a settlement with the city when the Browns left to become the Ravens. Art Modell owned the rights and surrendered them, in part at the behest of the NFL. It was actually a complicated deal where the Browns were deactivated by the league and the Ravens created as a new team which kept the old Browns’ contracts and player rights. This is highly unusual, and depends on the league stepping in and promising expansion of the league.
            In the case of the Charlotte Bobcats becoming the Charlotte Hornets, the Hornets name was owned by the league (not the city of Charlotte) as part of the process where the league took ownership of the New Orleans Hornets and sold them to a new owner who changed the name to the New Orleans Pelicans. Again, a highly unusual situation.

            So, if he really wanted to Lurie could move the team to L.A. and have them play in the same uniforms with the same name. He could even call them the Philadelphia Eagles of Los Angeles if he was determined to do so, though that would be bizarre.

          • Richard Colton

            I skipped over the parts where you referenced other leagues. Apples to oranges. The Browns case set the precedent for the NFL.

          • ochospantalones

            That doesn’t really make sense. That happened once, and was contingent on league expansion. Unless you think the league would give Philadelphia a 33rd team to replace the Eagles, the precedent does not seem applicable. Plenty of NFL teams have previously changed cities and kept the name/colors, history etc.: Oakland Raiders (multiple times), St. Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals, Indianapolis Colts, and so on. There is a reason the old Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens, not the Baltimore Colts. That is far more common than the Browns precedent.

          • Richard Colton

            All of those cases predate the Browns lawsuit, so yeah. Put aside the fact that the NFL would never be willing to go a long period of time without a franchise in Philadelphia. What did Cleveland have, 3 or 4 years as a dormant team?

            Tell you what – if I was a fan group or the city of Philadelphia, and Jeff Lurie tried to relocate the franchise AND the team, I’d enjoy filing that brief. It writes itself. Doubtful he’d even try.

          • ochospantalones

            Uh, Lurie would be entirely with in his rights to take the intellectual property with him. A lawsuit just to keep the name would have no merit and would be dismissed. If there was separate litigation over the lease, then he could use the name rights as a bargaining chip in negotiations over those rights. There is no real question that Lurie owns the rights and can do with them what he pleases. If he was breaking his lease, he would presumably give up the name rights as part of the eventual settlement, but that would not change the fact that at the outset he owned the rights, not the city or fans. He would be exchanging one set of rights and obligations (the names/colors, and presumably a commitment to pay the city a whole bunch of money) in exchange for a right he did not necessarily have (the right to move the franchise).

          • Richard Colton

            Unless this is the secret handle for sports attn’y Jerry Colton, you’re out of your depth here buddy. If it is – get back to work Jerry.

            Where to begin…

            OK, the Browns case is the precedent, but you don’t like that one. How about this instead? Congress. The NFL is a legal monopoly. That furor alone would force Goodell to keep the name in Philly.

          • ochospantalones

            Right, these are all practical issues, one’s I actually largely agree with. But none of them change the fact the initial statement that we “own the team” is incorrect. We don’t. Lurie does. He would likely give up those rights if it came to it, but he’s not required to and they are still his rights to give up. If he was enough of a sonuvab*tch and truly wanted to fight this to the death, Al Davis style, he would likely win. There is no good reason for him to do so, he would almost certainly be better off not doing so.

            This argument has really gone down the rabbit-hole into hypotheticals that will never happen, so it all seems a bit pointless. But the bottom line is Lurie owns the teams’ intellectual property and will continue to do so until he chooses to give it up. That in the real world he likely would agree to give it up does not change that.

          • JofreyRice

            nice background on this.

          • knighn

            Sure, disregard my answer and get into a semantical shell game. First let me clear up your first delusion: Lurie may “own” the team, just like Braman or Tose once “owned” the team. Make no mistake: Philadelphia’s fandom outlived those owners and it shall outlive Jeff Lurie. My children will be singing “Fly Eagles Fly” long after Jeff Lurie is dead and gone. It is OUR team and the Philadelphia Eagles aren’t going anywhere.

            Now back to your shell game. I addressed why I care where the Eagles spend their money. Your response, “But Lurie really owns the team.” My response. See above. Also, “Duh.”

            Then you claim that cutting DeSean is only useful for 2015 cap money. Really? If DeSean truly was a bad fit… either in the locker room, on the football field, or some combination of the above, doesn’t cutting him clear up a useful roster spot NOW? So that the Eagles can start improving the team both for now and the future?

            Sure, the rest of the moves may not work out how the Eagles hoped. The receivers that they pick up may not fit as well as hoped. Foles may regress. Still, the Eagles can’t be afraid to do what they think what is the best for the team. There would have been no guarantees with DeSean here, either, except:
            1) He’d still be the same size
            2) He’d still be the same person
            3) He’d still complain about money
            4) He would be guaranteed over $10 million just for making the roster in September.
            Cutting DeSean isn’t just about 2015.

          • ochospantalones

            Well, to go back to my prior post, “If you think points 2 and 3 mean DeSean didn’t actually make the team better, then you don’t need point 1.” Meaning if you think we’re better off without him regardless of cost, because he’s a limited player with a bad attitude, then his salary is irrelevant. If you wouldn’t bring him back for one dollar, who cares if $10.5 million is “overpaid” by league standards?

          • knighn

            Do I think DeSean’s small stature and attitude were ideal for this team? No.
            Would he still be here if he was paid much less? I believe so but cannot say so for certain.

            He was going to be paid $10 million. At $10 million, I believe he was on the wrong side of the Price vs. Value line, chart or graph…. largely because of points 2 and 3 (fit / football & fit / lockerroom). I can’t pretend I know what Chip Kelly’s perceived value of DeSean was. Maybe it was half of what DeSean got paid. Maybe it was a quarter. Maybe it was NFL minimum. Maybe points 2 & 3 combined were enough for Chip to want DeSean gone any price.

            What we know for certain: because of points 1, 2 and 3 combined, DeSean had to get gone. Get it?

          • ochospantalones

            I guess what I am failing to communicate is that this entire concept of “value” is nonsensical if you’re not spending the money on replacement players. DeSean is overpaid if paying him prevents you from allocating those dollars to other players who will do more to help you win. If you’re not spending the money on other players who will provide more bang for the buck, I really don’t care whether DeSean offered optimal bang for the buck. Basically, I am disputing the entire notion of players have an abstract, fixed “value”. It is an opportunity cost issue. In DeSean’s case, once you assume he offers on the field benefits to the Eagles in 2014, and you accept that they will not spend the money on anyone else in 2014, then DeSean is worth whatever it takes to keep him here regardless of what other wide receivers in other circumstances elsewhere in the league are being paid.

          • knighn

            Your “communication” fails to address two things:
            1) Future seasons
            2) Reality

            1) The entire focus of your post is the 2014 season. You may not believe this (since you seem to believe that Lurie is going to be moving the Eagles to L.A.) but the Philadelphia Eagles still plan to play football after the 2014 season. As addressed before: DeSean is NOT a fit, and it allows the team to move on from him now. It also frees up money for 2015, money that will be used on Nick Foles (and potentially on Boykin, Kendricks and Cox). In terms of total value, I’d say that Foles alone should be much more valuable than Jackson.

            2) When a team is ready to move on from a player, they move on from that player. The perfect example is Terrell Owens, who had the 49ers, the Eagles and the Cowboys all move on from him. Did any of those teams have a receiver ready to truly step up and replace everything that T.O. brought to the field? No. T.O. was a special receiver on the field and his stats should put him in discussion for the H.O.F. However, for whatever reason: he simply became a poor fit for each of those three teams.

            Now, is DeSean on the level of T.O.? Absolutely not. I do not believe that DeSean was a problem in the locker room to the degree that T.O. was. However, DeSean is also nowhere near the receiver that T.O. was (please dispute this – it will be so amusing).

            At any rate, your line or reasoning is dangerous and is completely from the view of the player and takes no consideration for the people in charge. Basically, your mindset, taken to its logical conclusion would say: you pay a pro-bowl level player whatever he wants since you don’t already have another pro-bowl player ready to take his place.

            Surely you can step away from your Player mindset long enough to understand why this is a poor idea?

          • ochospantalones

            I have said all along that the 2015 cap room is of legitimate value (“What they did get by cutting DeSean is cap room in 2015. That has value to the fans if they actually use it, which remains to be seen.” and “To reiterate: the 2015 cap room is genuinely useful, if they use it to re-up Foles, Boykins, Kendricks, Cox etc.”). I also said that the whole Eagles moving to L.A. thing will never happen, so getting bogged down in the details of the hypothetical is not particularly worthwhile (“Of course, this is all a bit silly, because the Eagles are highly valuable where they are and there is no reason for them to leave.” and “This argument has really gone down the rabbit-hole into hypotheticals that will never happen, so it all seems a bit pointless.”).

            So you have begun by attacking two straw men, which is not a particularly good start on your part.

            I think the T.O. comparison is inapposite. When T.O. left the 49ers and Eagles he was actively campaigning to leave. In fact when he left the 49ers it was his and the NFLPA’s position that he was actually a free agent. They had to reach a settlement voiding Owens’ trade to Baltimore and approving his move to the Eagles. Insofar as any of us know, DeSean was not actively trying to get out. He certainly was not doing sit ups in his driveway, and his agent was not yelling “next question!” at reporters. The Dallas move was more similar, but T.O. was 35 years old at that point, not 27, and Dallas is perennially capped out.

            “you pay a pro-bowl level player whatever he wants since you don’t already have another pro-bowl player ready to take his place.” This is not the logical conclusion at all. You do not need to refill a tire through the hole. You can use the money on multiple players and on other positions. If they used the money from cutting DeSean to sign an outside linebacker or a safety (or some combination of players at various positions) that improved the team more than DeSean’s contribution that would be fine. But they did not do that. My whole point here is that the reason to cut a productive but overpaid player is to reallocate the money to other players providing better value. If the team is not reallocating the money to more cost effective players then the on-the-field team is not reaping any benefits from no longer having the “overpaid” player.

          • knighn

            You introduced those pointless hypotheticals so reap the rewards of your work.

            The T.O. comparison is completley relevant, especially in the Eagles case. T.O. first campaigned in 2005 to get more money as DeSean was doing in 2014. When T.O. realized that he was not going to get more money (as DeSean also would NOT) he actively campaigned to leave the team. Do you honestly believe that DeSean was above this behavior? You give him far more credit than I do.

            As for your argument on money: you believe when you cut a player, you must replace him with other players who equal that pay and value IMMEDIATELY (this damn season), otherwise you have no financial justification for getting rid of that player. Right?

            Meanwhile: it’s hilarious that you introduce Dallas as “what not to do” (unless you actually think that “perennially capped out” is a good thing) while complaining that the Eagles should spend more of their cap space!

            Keep running around in circles. You’ll get there eventually.

        • Joe from Easton

          Maybe you missed it. Under the new CBA you can roll any unspent money into next year’s cap which means that cutting DeSean will lead to signing other players, it just didn’t happen this year. I fully believe that next year they plan to pay Foles / Kendricks / Cox / Boykin and still be in a position to get a position of need filled on a team that they feel will be peaking in terms of SB contention. That 10 million dollars will go a long way with that.

          • ochospantalones

            Uh, yeah, that’s what I meant by “What they did get by cutting DeSean is cap room in 2015”. And again later in the thread: “To reiterate: the 2015 cap room is genuinely useful, if they use it to re-up Foles, Boykins, Kendricks, Cox etc.”

            What we need to be clear about is that what enables these moves is NOT the $10.5 million that Lurie is pocketing, it is the the cap benefits we get from cutting DeSean now rather than later. That the increase in cap room from cutting DeSean now versus in 2015 happens to also come out to around $10 million is a coincidence (it is cap roll over added to the benefit of eating DeSean’s dead money now instead of later, not his 2014 base salary).

          • Joe from Easton

            DeSean got cut because he disappeared in big games, was a cry baby, couldn’t do what Chip wants his receivers to do, and was more concerned with being a $h!tty rapper than the best Philadelphia Eagle he could have been. Get over it or go root for the Redskins. No one on this board wants to hear your same diatribe from the past three weeks about Lurie “pocketing” money. It’s his money already so he doesn’t have to pocket crap. He’s paid out the wazoo when necessary; made McNabb the highest paid QB in history, paid for Kearse and TO when we are close to the hump, paid our homegrown talent over the years (except after the age of 30 for which I blame Banner more), and has invested into the Linc, community, and countless other charitable efforts. Get off his a$$ already and talk some damn football or move on, please.

          • ochospantalones

            See, this is my entire point, you all keep shifting back and forth. And I think it’s because you’re rationalizing.

            If you just think DeSean is a bad guy who didn’t make the team better, say that and leave the money out of it. The problem is you don’t seem to really believe it, so you keep coming back to “overpaid”. If he’s helping the team win more than a different available use of the same funds would, then he’s not overpaid. If he actively hurts the team, then cut him and leave the money out of it. If you think he helps the team, but we’re not winning the Super Bowl this year anyway, so we should trade off current benefit for future cap relief to help long term, say that. Instead we get an eternal cycle of pro-management BS trying to justify this based on financial concerns that should be irrelevant to the fans, and on the field arguments which no one believed two months ago.

            As I’ve said before, I’m not a particularly big fan of DeSean’s (he really is an idiot), but I do not believe he actively hurt the team. I am still waiting to hear how many games we would have won last year without him. The really strange thing about this is that my position, that a playoff team shouldn’t trade a Pro Bowler in his prime for future cap room, was the nearly universal position of Eagles fans a month before DeSean was cut. I’m old enough to remember when the rumors started and everyone laughed them off, because clearly the Eagles wouldn’t do something that dumb.

            Go read this post and the comments, which is only 10 days before they cut DeSean:


          • Joe from Easton

            I don’t think he actively hurt the team in a way that you can spot on film. 82 for 1332 and 9 speaks for itself.

            I think he limits what Chip wants to do and we won’t know until this year if that would be better or worse than what we saw from the O last year. My bet is it will be better because I don’t think Chip would cut a player he needs. He’s an offensive genius by all accounts.

            So, did he hurt the team actively? No, but passively he probably hurt Chip’s ideal scheme which may have helped us against the Saints or whomever else. If he was never there at all last year, maybe we would’ve seen a more Chip like offense than what we saw and maybe we would’ve set NFL records instead of Denver.

            The point is that I’m giving Chip the benefit of the doubt.

          • ochospantalones

            That’s a totally reasonable, non-angry response. The point I want to make about it is that this is very different from most of the posts we see around here about how cutting DeSean was clearly the right move, had to be done for financial reasons, anyone would have done it, and only an idiot doesn’t see that. The vast majority of Eagles fans DID NOT believe it was the right move before they did it, and would not have done it were they in charge. Chip gets paid the big bucks to make football decisions, and we don’t. So if you want to assume he knows what he’s doing better than we do, fine. I don’t have a problem with that. Chip believes he can make the team better without DeSean. I sure hope he’s right. But if he’s wrong he will be in for a whole lot of criticism, and rightfully so.

            My problem is with the argument that they needed to do this for financial reasons, which is clearly not true. And I think everyone sort of knows it’s not true, because every time I make the point I get an angry response about how DeSean made the team worse and we’re better off without him regardless.

          • Joe from Easton

            I may be wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever said they had to do it for financial reasons. I have said that it helps them in the future in terms of finances, but for me it’s always been about trusting chip’s decision from a football perspective.

            I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. I’ve just seen so many people saying that Lurie is trying to pocket the money for his own gain and that’s all this comes down to and I vehemently disagree with that. The guy is worth 1.2 billion dollars; 10 million to him is like me handing you a 100 dollar bill and asking you to spend 87 cents.

          • ochospantalones

            Well, you may have reason to be mad at me yet.

            I think the actual reason they cut DeSean was not the money. I think Chip didn’t want him around anymore, and thinks we are better long term without him by combination of a.) allowing him to build his offense with more flexible, coach-able pieces and b.) making an example of DeSean now will make the rest of the team respect his authority going forward. We have already seen B in action with Evan Mathis, to a certain extent. I think that thought process undervalues the importance of elite talent in the NFL and possibly overvalues Chip’s talents as a schemer, but who knows at this point?

            What I was responding to, and what bothers me, is the frequent argument made by fans that the Eagles were right to cut DeSean because he was overpaid. Or, in this case “he made too much for what he was worth”. To me that IS an argument that Jeffrey Lurie is pocketing the money, and is correct to do so. That’s what I disagree with. If the Eagles cut DeSean because they think he was worth it at $8 million (or whatever) but not $10.5 million, no fan should support that. That’s putting Lurie’s finances ahead of the good of the team.

            To be clear, this is all timing contingent. Cutting DeSean before free agency and spending the money on other players the Eagles think provide more bang for the buck would be fine. Cutting him after the useful free agents have signed because you think a useful player does not fit your abstract notion of value is just being cheap. Again, I don’t think that was the actual reason for the move. But I’m not the one saying it was. The Eagles supporters on the DeSean move are the ones saying the Eagles did it because they are cheap and that’s a good thing.

          • Joe from Easton

            Eh I’m going to go the Occam’s razor route on this and just continue to agree with the move because I feel Chip knows what he wants and DeSean didn’t bring it.

  • willissez

    Putting the fireman on the front page 2 days before the draft is just bad karma.

    Also, I dunno who Patrick Daugherty is, but he seems to have a more realistic outsider viewpoint of our city and fan-dom then most. I almost stopped reading after the first 2 sentences before recognizing the sarcasm. Maybe the world is catching on about our passion, and leaving the vocal minority out of their opinions. No? Well one can dream…

    • DEBO 215

      I think unfortunately the more things happen in other cities, the more people realize that there are idiots everywhere, but the stigma is still here. Bruins fans throw trash at a black player after scoring a winning goal and call him the N word and it’s just a few bad eggs. A fight breaks out between drunk Flyers and Ranger fans in Philly and the response is, “typical Philly fans.”

      I don’t care when people do it that aren’t in the media but when national writers and bloggers do it, I find it really lazy and aggrevating.

      • Reef215

        BOSTON FANS are far worst than Philly fans. Boston is STILL one of the most racist cities in America and its one of the farthest north. and how are they rewarded? with 20+ championships in less than 30 years

  • DEBO 215

    Thank you Patrick Daugherty. That’s probably one of the best national media takes I’ve ever heard on the state of the fans of this city. I was ready to eviscerate him when he lead with batteries and Santa, but I was pleasantly surprised. Cheers to you sir.
    Don’t trade up for anyone. You only have 6 picks. You will get an impact player at 22. Just stay put and let someone fall in your lap Howie. I really hope it’s Calvin Pryor. If they could pick up Pryor in round 1 then De’Anthony Thomas in round 2 or 3, I’d be REALLY happy.
    lol Watkins

  • Jim Blizzard

    I can’t imagine the eagles burning their 2nd round pick to move up and get a WR. That means not helping the defense at all in this draft which I don’t see as an option.

    • Joe L

      You can still get a starter in the third and 4th though.

  • Tom W

    Howie’s five player cards at 22 – Mosley, Barr, Haha, ODB, trade back or take Latimer

    • DEBO 215

      Would be happy with Barr or HaHa…not the other three options though.

    • oreofestar

      Would take Barr in a heartbeat would be okay with Mosley, Dix, maybe even BEckham not Latimer

    • Richard Colton

      I think if you replace Latimer with Lee – you may have their top five quasi-realistic options.

      BTW – still loving your chart. I printed out a color copy for my draft party cheat sheet.

      • Jerry Pomroy

        Did it require legal paper? I need to get together a list as well and was just gonna be lazy and print his as well.

        • Richard Colton

          no. just a lot of squinting.

  • Bird of Prey

    Prisco, what does 2011 have to do with the new regime and management structure we have now?

    • James Hathaway

      Typical pre-draft look back at 3 years ago is all.

    • George

      And HOW was alex henery a hit?

      • Dominik

        “and the only real hits were fourth-round kicker Alex Henery and sixth-round center Jason Kelce”

        If I’m Kelce, I take a ride to whatever city Briscos lifes and punch him in the face. If Henery is a hit in the 4th round, Kelce is the freaking best player in the 6th round ever – screw Brady.

  • Richard Colton

    “D” is too generous a grade from Prisco. 1st through 4th round picks in 2011 were brutal. First pick was classic Reid arrogance – “me and my team are so good, we’re one starting caliber guard away from contention.” 2nd pick was overdraft for need. They took the best available S. That was their plan for round two going into the draft and they followed it, even though it meant taking a player on whom most teams had a 4th round grade. 3rd pick was a reach. 4th pick was a kicker.

    Bust, bust, bust, (sorry “fact-boy) bust.

    If that’s not an “F” – I don’t know what is. Sure, they struck gold with Kelce. All that means is next time we need a center, we’ll have people crying about how easy they are to find in the 6th round. Sorry to get all “Token” – but I really hate the 2011 draft.

    • JosephR2225

      I don’t know… I’m thinking 2014 is a breakout year for Casey Matthews…

      • Richard Colton

        the year he breaks out of his mid-20s doldrums and disabuses himself of the notion that he’s a professional football player? then yes.

    • Adam

      Damn Canadians.. Oh wait :(

      • Richard Colton

        you know what would be a kick in the face? if that kid from McGill – Maurice Duvernay-Tardif Roy-Gretzky turns into the next Orlando Pace. We’re snakebit with Canadian lineman.

        • Maggie

          An addition to your lineup.
          “Bronislau “Bronko” Nagurski was a Canadian-born American football player.”

    • you wrote, hours ago, what just popped into my head post-reading (finally got to the site and this article)

      Kelce is the only thing keeping it from an F-

    • GMaddox

      I do too. I have just never gotten my arms around (pun intended) blaming Reid given the lack of clarity about how Eagles do things and the obvious lack of qualifications of our GM. The contemporaneous press stories revolved around Howie and the fireman. The success of our late picks always worried me because it suggested that there was someone in the organization who knew talent but was not being paid attention to until all of the hype about the high profile possibilities had run its course? Was that Grigson who made those decisions? All I know is we found a lot of great players late in a number of these drafts. Be that as it may, if that draft is not an “F,” what would it take to get that grade?

    • Murrayman

      They got a Pro Bowl-caliber player in the draft. Therefore it cannot be an ‘F’. They also got Cedric Thornton. I mean, sure, Watkins and Jarrett are terrible, but when you have two starters of this caliber, it just can’t be a failure.

      • Richard Colton

        I’m going to disagree. Thornton wasn’t drafted, so he doesn’t count. Kelce? OK. Credit for luck – that’s what I call a 6th round pick who becomes a pro-bowl quality player.

        It’s the worst Eagles draft in 20 years. Isn’t that an F?

        • Murrayman

          Uh, okay, so now you get to determine the parameters? Thornton was available to be drafted, and was selected by the Eagles to come into their organization, from college, and try out for their team. It occurred right after the draft. Probably luck, though. Everything that works out is luck. Oye ve. But 1st round hits — not luck. Please — what about the 1993 draft was better? The two 1st round picks were awful. You don’t recall all those contributions from Victor Bailey and Mike Frazier? 1997? 2003? In no way was it a good draft but one thing that does cut the suck of it is that there weren’t really any good players available after Watkins in and around the 1st round. Carimi? Please. The only guy is James Carpenter.

          • Richard Colton

            You can keep repeating the word “please” but it won’t make your argument better. If we’re talking about the draft, we have to keep it to drafted players. That’s just logic. 1993 was horrid, but that was 20 years ago.

            So I’ll say it again. 2011 was the worst Eagles draft in 20 years. The grade is “F.” I’d defend Joseph Kony before I defended that draft. You’re on the wrong side of football history.

  • myeaglescantwin

    what’s this obsession with Calvin “cant cover” Pryor??

    • myeaglescantwin

      also, seeing those top 3 pic in 2011 again made me vom on my keyboard

      • knighn

        If you want to REALLY lose some weight, take a look at the full history of Andy Reid’s draft picks in rounds 1-3. So many more misses than hits in there.

        • myeaglescantwin


          i used to get mad about it. made me laugh. Me following the draft sailed with the selection of Jerome McDougal.

          Andy would draft like 13 people each year and have maybe one or two make the roster..

          he had too much on his plate when he coached here. Everyone just bowed down. There needs to be checks and balances for a team.

          • Eagles1018

            Wow McDougal. So bad

          • OldDocRoss

            I give them a mulligan on McDougle. It’s not like anyone had “irregular heartbeat and tendency to get gutshot during car jackings” on the scouting report.

          • Andy124

            Should have employed better psychics.
            Went cheap and paid for it.

          • OldDocRoss

            True. Psychics could’ve really helped Andy with knowing when to throw the challenge flag too. Of course “watching the game” might have done the trick there.

    • Joe L

      He played a decent amount of centerfield for Louisville and did a good job at it. I don’t know where people are getting that he’s a complete liability in coverage.

      • myeaglescantwin

        tapes. Cosell
        and it’s basically unanimous in the scouting reports that I read. He’s a known hard hitter. If his coverage was better, we’d hear more about it, or at least about him being a well balanced S.

        I don’t see that much, to any, improvement in moving away from Wolfe to Pryor.
        i never saw him play the deep cover 1.

        also, he was usually up in the box in a middle zone.
        When he was deep it was mostly cover 2.
        rarely asked to cover man to man.

        that’s all. I could be wrong.
        i mean, i haven’t watched each game, but I saw a few

        • Jerry Pomroy

          That’s not the scheme they played. They just didn’t ask their S or LBs when they dropped to play man. He’s an excellent zone defender & even if the catch is initially made, he can separate the ball from receiver worth a good timed hit.

          I don’t think he’s the pick, but this misconception that he can’t cover is just overshadowed by his hitting ability & the fact that he just want tasked to play man coverage.

  • cliff henny

    really hope atta-guy is there at #54. if Eagles believe this, along with trading out of #22, might be a heck of a weekend.

    • Richard Colton

      I think he will – as will Marcus Smith. But what if you got Barr in round one and ATAT or Smith is (by far) the highest rated player on your board. Decisions, decisions…

      • cliff henny

        if Barr is there at #22, I want the freaking farm, equipment, house and daughters in trade back! after seeing Wolff and Lane, I aint scurred of a little rawness when packaged in freak athlete

      • Andy124

        Depends on how closely they’re rated to the next highest rated guy on the board at say, WR or S.

        • Richard Colton

          see that’s the thing. Attaouchu and Barr are both raw – not sure either could play inside. Don’t see Smith as a Jack at LOLB. Van Noy sitting at #54 makes LB/LB an easy call. The other two might be a head scratcher. I think they would pass.

          • Andy124

            Could be that Barwin’s Jack role is featured because that’s how to best make use of Barwin. I could see a scenario where At-At is rated way higher than anyone else on the board so they go with him.
            1) backup plan in case Barr doesn’t turn out.
            2) If they both develop to high level pass rushers, you reconfigure the defense to take greater advantage of 2 top edge rushers vice 1 edge rusher and 1 jack. It wouldn’t happen overnight, but by the time Barwin’s contract is out of dead money the Eagles could prefer to roll with Barr and At-At.

            Also, if At-At isn’t rated much higher than (insert tall WR here), then I think they go with the WR *cough Robinson cough*.

          • Richard Colton

            You sold me. Good work. I’m always ready to buy into an augment that has the Eagles taking the better player.

          • Jerry Pomroy

            I’m all for loading up the LB spot now that we’re playing a 34 base. However, I think Smith is better than Attaochu if they’re sitting there side by side at 54. His ability to drop into coverage effectively and take on double teams better in 4 down lineman situations as a DE (remember he also blitzed from inside standing up and also played DT taking on G & C), give him the edge. It also makes Curry somewhat expendable, as he is basically what you’d like Curry to be (more versatile/more valuable). If I’ve got Barr & I’m taking another LB as insurance b/c he’s the BPA, I want the guy that can do more at a high level if Barr does pan out. Smith is a player coaches love.

          • Richard Colton

            agree with everything except the Curry point – I think the coaches see him as 100% a DE. Unless you’re thinking about playing Smith at DE – which I have a hard time seeing. talk about a guy who’s been jerked around his entire career. All Curry does is pressure the QB and he still can’t get any PT.

          • Jerry Pomroy

            I mean Smith can play standing up or in 3pt DE in sub packages. If I’ve got Barr and Smith then I can understand better a possible trade of Curry to pick up an extra pick. I’m not outright dismissing him.

          • Richard Colton

            Other than the fact he was a 2nd round pick, I’m not sure why he’s on the team. I feel bad for him actually, I think he could really be an effective 4-3 DE.

          • cliff henny

            hey man, sorry took me awhile, but you still interested, or too busy with Gracelyn? email me at cliffhenny@hotmail.com.

          • cliff henny

            Barr and Smith, take that-rest of draft is offense though. think Johnny Geagle mentioned it once, but is Barwin capable of moving inside to replace Ryans? seems often to be guys like KVN/shazier that are lumped as combo.

          • Jerry Pomroy

            Not sure that Barwin would be best utilized inside. I’m sure he can do it, but I think it all depends on what they want there opposite Kendricks.

            Think of it this way, I see Trent Murphy as somewhat of a less athletic Barwin. Would you move Murphy inside?

          • cliff henny

            be a freaky athletic 4 lbs of attaguy, MK, Barwin and Smith though.

  • Mike J

    That’s a big Negative Ghost Rider! In King’s mock there’s no way i’d give up our second when we could sit at #22 (according to King) and get Fuller or Clinton-Dix or Shazier or Lee! Draft is way too deep to give up a 2nd IMO

    • myeaglescantwin

      Shazier is an undersized PDE farm. i highly doubt he gets selected by the Eagles.

    • Jerry Pomroy

      Forget the depth in regards to giving up 2nd. But giving up your 2nd to move up 7 spots for ODB is just a ridiculous statement. He looks to be good but he’s arguably the 3rd-4th best receiver in this draft. I actually like Lee more who can do more damage after the catch & has a higher ceiling.

      • cliff henny

        I like odb, but his WR production week in week out is not warranting top 15 pick. for all his measurable, Landry was the better player till pads came off. I liked him when thought he came in trade back adding extra 3rd rdr. know it worked with Lane, and have similar fears in Latimore, guys that rise in shirtless season. sure, it’s media catching up to scouts, but it’s not like they didn’t know about odb, he was solid mid to end of 2nd pretty much all year on cbssports.com

        • Jerry Pomroy

          Latimer was always on the national radar. He was just an injury victim that didn’t get to complete at combine. Therefore he fell between the cushions until he was healthy and able to showcase himself in workouts. I still think he’s considered a 2nd rounder, but improved himself from mid to late to early 2nd maybe fringe 1st. All based on boards though with teams and not rounds.

          • cliff henny

            yeah, think odb and latimore aren’t very similar, outside they are the 2 biggest riser since season ended. actually have less issue with latimore going from 5th to 2nd,than odb going from 50th’ish to inside top 15.

      • Maggie

        Can’t see giving up any pick when the team only has 6 picks in total. It seems even more unlikely that the Eagles would give up their 2nd for ANY receiver. Look at the coach, the team, the moves made in the last 4 months, and the large number of receivers available. It makes much more sense, if giving up that pick, to add a pass rusher. Preferably somewhere in the front seven.

  • Joe Thomas

    Cant wait for the draft. Need to hit big on a couple guys. Im not looking for them to go after any position of need, because I believe Chip still is looking at next offseason to fine tune. With that said, coming away with a stud OLB, would make fine tuning easier.

    • cliff henny

      i’m still in load up for ’15 mode. want another nfc east title, home playoff win and i’ll be extremely happy. so, take highest rated freaky of the freak athletes, get one more off-season for Kelly to tweak team, then all bets are off, SB or bust for next 3 or 4 yrs (shady’s prime)

      • Joe Thomas

        Yea, 15 and beyond is super bowl or bust. This year I just wanna see Foles improve, and the defense get tougher. We do that, a playoff win will come.

      • Jerry Pomroy

        Shady will need someone behind him to take some pressure and touches off his plate to keep him shakin & bakin beyond that point. He’s in his prime now & in order to avoid that falling off a cliff in 2-3yrs, he’ll need to be utilized less to continue to get more (If that makes sense).

  • peteike

    Id def prefer taking Lattimer early than giving away a 2nd to move up and get ODB. Im really hoping they can trade back once if not twice which would be ideal. If they move up and give away more picks I wont be a happy fan.

    • anon

      Not at 22 you can get someone with similar measurables who can be almost as good in rounds 3 and 4.

      • peteike

        ya agreed, I just mean if I had to choose between those scenarios listed above. I wouldnt hate that move in other words but I would have a problem moving up for ODB.

    • NickS1

      Hope they can trade down a few spots and take Latimer if that’s who they take. Don’t see him off the board before 28.

  • Jerry Pomroy

    ’11 draft was doomed as soon as they announced they had selected Watkins. At least we salvaged something with the selection Kelce & one could argue, up until last yr Henery (who will have zero excuses on accuracy if he’s still here after they close up the corners).

  • anon

    I don’t even care about these mocks anymore — flavor of the day btw 4-5 usual suspects — such a waste of time — and just leads to people commenting on how bad national reporting is. I prefer only mocks by Eagles writers and thoughts on later round editions.

  • Scott J

    Does Todd McShay keep up with current events? The Eagles didn’t go after Byrd or Ward because they weren’t versatile players, so why would they draft Pryor?

    • Andy124

      Because Kelly and Pryor both have 3 consonants, 1 vowel and a ‘y’ in thier last name. Plus, 2 of the 3 consonants are repeats. The similarities are too perfect to pass up. Pryor is as good as green.

      • Maggie

        Excellent analysis!

        • Andy124

          It’s science.

      • Andy124

        And so is @cliff_henny:disqus

        • cliff henny

          if the similarities between Kelly and Pryor blow your hat off, well, using the formula Kelly vs henny, my middle name is Gilbert. haven’t seen Justin mocked to Eagles yet, but it’s in the cards

  • ryan pertl

    Wrong article!

  • Joe from Easton

    Had a little fun trading back, but this draft would be more than fine by me.

    Your score is: 5037 (GRADE: A-)

    Your Picks:
    Round 2 Pick 18 (MIA): Kyle Van Noy, OLB, Brigham Young (A)
    Round 2 Pick 22: Allen Robinson, WR, Penn State (A)
    Round 3 Pick 9 (BUF): Deone Bucannon, SS, Washington State (A)
    Round 3 Pick 15 (BALT): Yawin Smallwood, ILB, Connecticut (B+)
    Round 3 Pick 19 (CLE): Demarcus Lawrence, DE, Boise State (A-)
    Round 3 Pick 22: Anthony Johnson, DT, LSU (B+)
    Round 3 Pick 24 (CINN): Keith McGill, CB, Utah (A-)
    Round 3 Pick 29 (N.E.): Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB, Nebraska (B+)
    Round 4 Pick 2 (WASH): Cameron Fleming, OT, Stanford (B-)
    Round 4 Pick 22: A.J. McCarron, QB, Alabama (A-)
    Round 5 Pick 22: Brandon Coleman, WR, Rutgers (A)
    Round 7 Pick 22: De’Anthony Thomas, RB, Oregon (B)

  • UKEagle99

    That image is too soon, I’d rather talk about Earl Thomas.