Crystal Ball: Nate Allen

NFL: New York Giants at Philadelphia Eagles

The Eagles have eight players that are set to become unrestricted free agents: Jeremy MaclinRiley CooperMichael VickNate AllenDonnie JonesKurt ColemanColt Anderson and Clifton Geathers.

Tim and Sheil will look at one free agent per day and give their take on what should and what will happen with these players. They’ve already covered: Maclin, Cooper and Vick.




Today's focus is on Allen.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN

Kapadia: The Eagles should look to upgrade at safety, while keeping track of how the market plays out for Allen.

The 2010 second-round pick deserves a lot of credit for bouncing back in 2013 and turning in his best year as a pro. His tackling was greatly improved (I guess coaching does matter, huh?), and he made far fewer mistakes in coverage. Allen passes Chip Kelly's culture test too. He plays with effort and by all accounts is a good teammate.

Having said that, the safety position probably has more importance now than ever before. Teams need hybrid defenders who can cover tight ends, play the run and be ball-hawks when back deep. Those players don't grow on trees, and as a result a lot of teams will be looking to upgrade at safety this offseason.

The Eagles should explore free agency and look to upgrade the overall talent level at safety. If they're able to snag one of the top guys on the market, then you probably let Allen go. If an upgrade in free agency doesn't seem likely, then you strongly consider bringing him back.

McManus: I think that's a smart course of action, Sheil.

I thought Allen had a solid year. He's not a big playmaker (he has just one interception in his last two seasons) but showed improvement in just about every phase of the game under Billy Davis. Part of that is directly related to coaching (credit defensive backs coaches John Lovett and Todd Lyght as well) and part of it can be attributed to scheme change. The safeties were overloaded with run responsibilities under Juan Castillo. And now?

"We’re pass first, pass second and then pass third,” Allen said back in December.

With those burdens alleviated, Allen was more decisive and assertive on the field.

If the Eagles can find more of an impact player in free agency, they should pounce. Otherwise they should lock up Allen, who already has a year in Davis' defense under his belt.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN

Kapadia: My guess is they make a strong push for one of the big-name safeties this offseason and let Allen go.

Some will suggest just drafting a safety, but the problem is they can't count on that. If the Eagles really are committed to sticking to their draft board, then there's no guarantee they'll even take a safety at all. Last year's safety class was considered especially strong, and they didn't take one until the fifth round. In other words, they need to make sure they're covered one way or another before the draft in May. If they add talent at safety with a pick, they can figure things out from there and let guys compete.

Howie Roseman has been honest when discussing the organization's difficulty in identifying safety talent. As Tim pointed out recently, a couple of the big-name free agents (Jairus Byrd and T.J. Ward) have Oregon ties when Kelly was there. That should help at least a little bit in determining how they'd fit.

As for Allen, it's really tough to gauge what the market will be for his services. The crew at Rotoworld has him ranked as the eighth-best free agent safety. Given the difficulty teams have in filling the position, it seems likely that Allen will be tabbed a starter somewhere.

But my inkling is the Eagles add a new name in free agency, continue to churn the roster, and Allen finds a home elsewhere.

McManus: I say they re-sign Allen.

Here's the dilemma: The Eagles recently altered their free agent approach. They want to scoop up a bunch of "mid-level" players that won't tie them down in terms of cost and commitment. If a guy proves to be a good fit for the system and culture, great, if not, cutting bait won't sink them.

Byrd wants to be the top-paid safety in the league, according to one report. He could very well set the market for Ward. Both are probably going to do very well for themselves. If the Eagles pony up for one of them, are they going against the ground rules that they just set for themselves? On the other hand, safety has been their Achilles' heel since Brian Dawkins left in 2008. How can they pass up the opportunity to finally stabilize the position?

I'm sure this is a debate that is being had inside the NovaCare walls. Ultimately, I think they'll decide to stick to the plan, sign a couple mid-level free-agent safeties -- one of them being Allen -- and then turn their attention to the draft.

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  • George

    I’d be ok with sticking to the plan, bit if we can snag byrd or ward, we DO IT

    • George

      and pollard would be a great start to the plan

      • Tikkit

        I don’t know how much Pollard that you’ve seen in the past few years. He is an old school SS. Those guys are going the way of the FB in the offense. I don’t care if you can hit like an LB, coverage skills are more important.

        • theycallmerob

          ^ this, 1000x

          • George

            he still SENDS a message. He’s only a backup plan if we can’t get a Big name guy, I know he’s a liability in coverage, but If we can’t get either byrd or ward, i think pollard is a good option because he is an intimidator and he isn’t much worse in coverage than what we’ve got

          • theycallmerob

            deja vu what we said about Chung last summer

  • Chris

    I know it’s hard to replace both safeties (we know Chung is done), but something really bothers me about Allen. He came with decent potential, by all accounts under performed his first 3 years, and then comes on strong in a contract year and has a good showing. I just can’t see his performance this year being indicative of what we’d get if we signed him to a multi-year deal. Something tells me he’ll get an offer from another team that we won’t want to match. Replacing both safeties will be tough, but it’s not like we’re worried about replacing Dawkins this year, either.

    • theycallmerob

      I’d say the “other team offer” is the biggest hindrance to him staying, same IMO as Maclin. Based on the available names in FA and “weaker” draft paired with the dearth of Safety talent in the NFL, someone will overpay him.

      • Chris

        Have to agree. Wouldn’t be surprised to see this with Cooper either, but it’s more likely to happen with Mac considering his past numbers

    • Bdawkbdawk

      In a vacuum, I’d completely agree that Allen is just stepping up in a contract year and is a risky sign. But if you contextualize his struggles, I think you have to cut him some slack. He walked in here in 2010 as a rookie and played pretty darn good football – 48 tackles, 1 forced fumble, 2 sacks, 3 Ints, and 8 Pd. That’s serious production from a rookie safety, and had he not ruptured his patellar tendon, I believe he would have continued to ascend. Throw in the rehab and the wide 9 in 2011 and it’s easy to see why he struggled (still 59 tackles, 2 Ints, and 7pds). Then in 2012 the defense collapsed and he played like crap. Aside from the wide 9, defensive scheme change, and general collapse, he doesn’t have much of an excuse. But if that is truly his only poor season, I think that this years’ production is more indicative of his true potential, than 2011-2012. Add in the anecdotes of fans meeting him at Lehigh and saying that he was a really good dude and I just think his poor play is because of circumstances, injury , and a down year and not due to effort or something worse.
      …..
      I don’t think Allen is a must sign or anything like that. If he gets more than our number, let him walk. But I don’t think I’d be surprised if this guy is able to play for a contender in the future.

      • Chris

        I can agree with this – i was a big Allen supporter after his rookie season and I think most of us were. You definitely have to consider the possibility that this defense plays to his strengths, and we could definitely do worse than what he gave the D in 2013, but I just think someone will overpay and he will be gone. My ideal scenario if he walked would be Byrd – Wolff with high-ish safety drafted (depending on BPA) within the first three rounds

        • Bdawkbdawk

          I think you’re right. There is definately the potential for an overpay. And if the Eagles are going to overpay, I’d prefer for it to be a high salary 2-3 year deal for an elite player, not just one who might be pretty good.

          • Chris

            yea, my thoughts too..if they overpay, it needs to be an upgrade, period.

  • BHowe

    Maybe this is dumb, but couldn’t you pair Allen with Byrd or Ward? My sense is that safeties are interchangeable, and that there’s not much difference now between FS and SS. Id love to have Byrd/Ward, Allen, Wolff, and Anderson. Could you answer this Sheil/Tim?

    • theycallmerob

      I’d say you’re correct

      When scouting safeties for the NFL draft, it’s becoming less common
      to divide them into categories of “strong” and “free” safeties. More NFL
      teams are running “Quarters” coverage, which asks both safeties to play
      in coverage.
      This means fewer strong safeties playing as an extra linebacker and
      more dual-threat players who can stop the run and cover. The trouble is,
      there are few players talented enough to truly do this.

      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1754290-the-deep-post-why-the-nfl-just-isnt-ready-for-chip-kellys-read-option-attack

      and you just wouldn’t believe who they name as the prototypical “Chip Kelly Safety” currently playing in the NFL….

      • George

        brandon ghram pick still haunts us…fu andy. We’ll give ghram for eric berry, ghram has a GREAT motor

      • Brian

        Love the first comment. Lol.

        • EaglefaninAZ

          That’s hilarious!

    • CJ

      I would be very much OK with this. I think Allen showed signs of life this year, but he was no standout or anything so I think he’d be a cost effective option and at the very least a very capable 3rd S. Beyond that, pairing him with a stronger safety would help him considerably. Look what Dawk did for Lewis’ career. Sure that’s extreme, we’re talking an HOFer there, but if Allen only needs to do his job and not worry about the other safety or run gaps, I think he could thrive in his second year in the same system. He hasn’t had a second year in an NFL system yet, either.

  • theycallmerob

    Ultimately, I think they’ll decide to stick to the plan, sign a couple mid-level free-agent safeties […]

    You can’t get off that easy Tim. Who are these Average Joes (or Nate Allens, if you will) that you speak of? You list him as 1 of the signings
    I’ll spot you the FA list, ranked by rotoworld:
    1. Jairus Byrd
    2. T.J. Ward
    3. Antoine Bethea
    4. Chris Clemons
    5. Malcolm Jenkins
    6. Stevie Brown
    7. Major Wright
    ***8. Nate Allen —->right in the middle. average as can be.
    9. Charles Woodson
    10. Ryan Clark
    11. James Ihedigbo
    12. Bernard Pollard
    13. Donte Whitner
    14. Usama Young
    15. Kendrick Lewis

    • Richard Colton

      that sinking feeling when you realize the Eagles recent free agent strategy would mean – they sign Nate Allen.

    • NickS1

      Shocked Whitner’s as low as he is. I’d take him over Allen in a heartbeat.

      • Bdawkbdawk

        I think it’s a grass is greener situation. 49ers fans have long been complaining about his coverage.

        http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/7/2/4486526/49ers-donte-whitner-safety-criticism-2013

        • NickS1

          Some of the comments on this site have alluded to him having really worked on and improved in that department. Assumed it was backed with some reading up on the situation, thus my comment. Either way, Nate’s not that good in coverage, and to my knowledge, Whitner’s always been a pretty sure tackler, unlike Allen.

          EDIT: See above

          • Bdawkbdawk

            If you have a moment or so, check out the link I posted. It is in no way difinitive, but it’s always a nice excercise to see what other fans feel about their players. Again a bit dated (2012), but
            it also mentions that “Among eligible safeties, Whitner ranked 44th of 55 in “stop percentage” when within eight yards of the line of scrimmage.”

          • NickS1

            What link? Or are you BdawkBdawk as well?

          • bentheimmigrant

            Disqus is going a bit crazy with names today. I just saw Bdawkbdawk have an argument with Bdawkbdawk, refreshed the page, and neither of them were Bdawkbdawk!

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Even I wouldn’t sink to those depths.

    • JofreyRice

      Wow, they really don’t think much of Donte Whitner! I’ve had my problems with him before, but he’s a hell of a lot better than Nate Allen, and improved his coverage greatly, this year. I’d take Whitner over Allen in heartbeat. Pollard, too. Pollard is basically a LB in coverage, but he at least does something at a high level, unlike Nasty Nate.

      • NickS1

        Correction: Not-So-Nasty Nate

        • GEAGLE

          Love seeing that nickname stick

          • NickS1

            He earned it

      • Bdawkbdawk

        “Among eligible safeties, Whitner ranked 44th of 55 in “stop percentage” when within eight yards of the line of scrimmage.”
        http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/7/2/4486526/49ers-donte-whitner-safety-criticism-2013

        • JofreyRice

          Article written before the season, so it fails to capture his improvement this year. They use PFF stats from 2011 and 2012, when–I agree–Whitner was overrated. I’ll never forget him getting burned time and time again in the NFC Championship–almost cost them that game. It goes back to my idea that S is a position where the player can improve dramatically as he gains experience.

          In that same category in 2013, stop% within 8 yards of LOS (for players involved in 60% of their teams run stats), Whitner ranked 36th out of 52. But, he only missed 7 tackles, total, all year, which indicates guys aren’t blowing by him. I noticed that the player who ends up dead last on that list is the other SF Safety, Eric Reid.

          Do you think it could be that these guys aren’t stopping as many people because guys like Bowman and Willis are doing that heavy lifting? Not saying that’s definitely the case, but I would assume playing behind 2 of the 5 best ILBs in the game would have some affect on #’s, and it seems to line up with the idea that they are still a very dominant defense, despite having 2 players rating out so low on the list.

          Allen ranked 48th on this list. No one is accusing the Eagles of an iron-curtain defense.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Very true – and 7 missed tackles aren’t terrible. While I think you have a point that the % might be deflated because Bowman and Willis arent letting many tackles through, I think the strength of the 49ers D cuts both ways. It might deflate the safeties’ tackle numbers, but I think the strong pass rush inflates their coverage numbers. But who knows? I’m not sitting and grading the plays.

          • JofreyRice

            That’s true. I think people expected more out of Dashon Goldson this year. I think his value was a little inflated within that defense–though I still think he’s a solid safety.

          • GEAGLE

            Really curious to see Whitner this weekend..I give him credit, he was a veteran who admitted that he needed to improve his coverage, said he would, and definitely came back this year and improved player in coverage…he won’t ever be Jarius Byrd in coverage, but I think it’s fair to say Donte and Nate had a similar year in coverage

      • GEAGLE

        Yeah that’s insanity….Donte Whitney’s coveraged improved to ATleast Nates level this year, probably better..
        ….
        And like you said, ATleast Pollard brings something special. It’s a passing league, but there is still a role for a Quasi LB like Pollard…
        Say we play the Seahawks, and Russel Wilson who throws for a petty average of 200yards a game, reliant heavily on BEASTMODE,msure be nice to have an extra Beast in the box like Pollard..

        Say we had Pollard in the playoffs, saints were struggling to pass. Jimmy Graham was on the bench! people like to talk about Pollard being slow, but it’s not like he isn’t faster then Blocking TE’s like Watson who the saints were using to pound the ball down our throat,..Having Pollard in the playoffs, sure might have helped our Nickle defense NOT get run over

    • Andy124

      I know he’s 342 years old, but in keeping with our Cox, Johnson theme, Charles got some Wood son seems like the obvious choice to me.

    • GEAGLE

      Every day I see this list and every day it depresses me….I see only two solutions, and they cost a pretty penny, or we are stuck chasing safety in a draft that seems pretty average at the position….Don’t know how many high quality starting safeties this draft class will provide.

      I don’t know that this safety class is even as good as last years

  • Ron Swanson

    Why couldn’t they sign a top free agent as well as Allen? Two safeties have to play and every other safety on the roster is worse than Nate (jury is still out on Wolff.)

    • therevxxx

      Agreed. Go after a top free agent AND sign Allen. Allen will not be getting top money, so he would be good depth to have around. I am a big fan of Wolff, but who knows if he can stay healthy all season. We can not go into the season with only (2) starting caliber safetys.

      • Dominik

        “We can not go into the season with only (2) starting caliber safetys.”

        Exactly. Otherwise you are one injury away from having Chung or Coleman in the game. No one can want that. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If our two starters go down – OK, as hard as it is, let Chung out there. You can’t have 5 Polamalus on your roster. But one playmaker + 2 solid safetys isn’t too much to ask.

    • Dominik

      That’s what I asked myself as well while reading the post. I’d keep Allen if the price is right, but I think you should go after Byrd or Ward as well (No. 1 priority this offseason, imho). Wolff doesn’t need to start next season. If he plays well, he can rotate with Allen or replace him.

      Coleman and Chung fight for the #4 (salary and ST contributions come in play here, I think Coleman gets the nod, but I can life with both if they are cheap and play good on ST). #5 is Anderson.

      A position of need would become a position we could feel pretty good about.

      • Marilyn Monbroe

        Number one priority should be pass rush. A great pass rush takes pressure off the secondary.

        • CJ

          chicken and egg…a great secondary takes pressure off the pass rush too. works both ways. They’re 1 and 1A.

          • Absecon

            Disagree in today’s NFL. Offense gets too many advantages rules wise and the speed keeps increasing with WR’s…pressure has to come from the front 7.

          • bentheimmigrant

            But that is countered by quick throws, which can only be slowed by… da da da dum! a good secondary!

        • Dominik

          But show me the standout OLB Pass Rusher via FA. I see Orakpo. Haven’t watched Worilds from the Steelers enough to grade him, but 18 sacks over 4 years doesn’t scream DPOTY. ;) Phillips is too old for us.

          I’m all in to build the Defense from front to back. Look at the CBs from the 49ers – nothing special, Nnamdi was their #3 at the beginning of the year. But they are a fantastic Defense because of their Front Seven and, that’s my point, great Safety play.

          We need a pass rushing OLB, no doubt, but that must come from the draft. If Orakpo is cheap, take him, the more bpa you can draft, the better. But focus on one of the outstanding Safetys. Byrd could be a huge difference maker for this Secondary.

          • bentheimmigrant

            I think a lot of this depends on whether the coaches think Cole’s improvement is a real thing that will continue into next year. If yes, I see them targeting someone in the draft to back him up and take over next year. If not, we better hope the stars align for the BPA in rd. 1 being an OLB.

          • Dominik

            Cole should stay here, his contract is also built that way.

            We should let Graham go, though. Wouldn’t be great to cut him, but if we can get a 5th or even a 4th rounder – go get it.

            And then let Cole and the new one battle for playing time. There aren’t many position on Defense where you can rotate that easily.

  • Rage114

    Not mentioned is stability. I don’t think they can go into each season with a revolving door in the secondary. Chung is almost certainly gone and frankly, there is no reason to keep Coleman.

    My thought is that they do resign Allen because they know what they have with him. Although I don’t think they precludes them from signing another safety or using a high draft pick one.

    Allen would be the insurance policy in case the other additions don’t work out or Wolff regresses.

    • GEAGLE

      Chung is under contract..worry about upgrading the 3 safeties who’s contract has expired before we worry about upgrading Chung…I suspect he won’t be upgraded til next offseason

      • Richard Colton

        you think Chung comes back? it wouldn’t be a tremendous cap hit and he was a major liability.

        • GEAGLE

          Unless we bring back Colt or Coleman for st, yes I do…

          Don’t believe too many teams ever replaced 4 safeties in one offseason…Chung will shut up and play ST…so unless we bring one of our expiring safeties back I abslutely do…we will want ATleast 2 safeties who already know this defense…and since neither Nate nor Chung are good enough to hold down the starting spot for 3 years, makes more sense to keep the one who will ATleast play ST

          • Dominik

            Have to rework the contract, though. Can’t pay him 3,2m if he’d be #4 + ST. 1m dead if cut, so you have to cut him or rework it. Would be a terrible waste of money to keep him with this contract.

            I don’t see us bringing in 4 new Safeties either. Wolff and Anderson will be there. Need 3 more. One could be Coleman or Chung, depends on the price tag and ST contribution. Means two more without Allen or Allen + one. And I hope the one will be Byrd or Ward.

          • GEAGLE

            Does Colt really count as a safety? To me, he is a flat out ST specialist, like Dorenbos who should NEVER be on the field with the Defense…we were just so bad at safety that when guys went down, Colt had to be called upon..

            I don’t rule out bringing Colt back, but I don’t know that Colt would be looked at as a returning Safety..

            If we wanted to get away from Chung now, I suspect Coleman would be the one to return. NOt as good a ST player as Colt, but he is more safety then Colt is…
            ….

          • bentheimmigrant

            Considering Boykin’s emergence as the greatest STer in the modern era, I could see them letting Anderson walk and keeping Coleman.

          • Dominik

            It doesn’t really matter if you count Colt or not.

            Like you wrote, I expect Coleman or Chung to be back (god, I would need to throw up if one of those two will be our #3 – AGAIN). Wolff will be back. That’s two out of four (or three out of five, if you count Colt) who will be back. Means two new safeties or one new Safety + Allen.

            Hopefully, in the end, we “trade” Coleman or Chung for Byrd. Even if Byrd gets 8m/year, I’d make that trade all the time.

          • anon

            by trade do you mean replace? how do you trade a ufa?

          • bentheimmigrant

            That’s probably why it was “trade”.

          • Dominik

            I wrote “trade”, the quotation marks are on purpose.

            I know we can’t trade Coleman, Chung or Byrd for that matter.

          • anon

            Did you mean drop Coleman or Chung (I agree if it’s chung) if we get Byrd? I was just trying to understand what you meant.

          • Rage114

            Chung’s cap hit for 2015 is 3.75 million. I am not positive but I don’t think there is any dead money if cut.

          • bentheimmigrant

            No dead in 2015, it looks like 1M dead in 2014.

          • Dominik

            My source of information is eaglescap.com. He’s 3,25m with 1m dead there for 2014.

            If there’s no dead money, even better.

          • Rage114

            Right. My bad. I was looking at 2015.

          • GEAGLE

            Yeah I doubt he would get to keep his exsisting contract…

            If we were to cut Chung, I would expect us to bring back Kurt Coleman…..Signing Colt isn’t like bringing a safety back…he is about as much of a safety as Jon Dorenbos lol…
            ..
            Coleman isn’t as good as Colt on ST, but Coleman is probably more of a safety then Anderson

          • Rage114

            Both Coleman and Anderson are much better ST players than Chung. They do not keep Chung just to play ST.

          • GEAGLE

            As,great as Colt is, I don’t recall him ever getting ST player of the week Honors like Chung…If Chung was relegated to full time ST player. I actually think he could help us for a year

        • bentheimmigrant

          From what I can remember, overthecap says no dead money, eaglescap says 1M. Not sure which one to believe, but I know which one I want to…

          • NickS1

            I know that it’s no difference either way. Only way you keep Chung is if he’s the 4th safety and he plays ST

          • bentheimmigrant

            So he can tackle other guys on the coverage team? I’ll cut him even if his dead money was bigger than his salary. But I’d love to squeeze an extra mil out of cutting him.

  • jabostick

    It’s a two-way street and I think you also have to consider if Nate would want to come back. The fans and media have been pretty hard on him the last couple of years (deservedly so, and he deservedly got some praise this year). Given the chance for more money, I think he’d bolt. Given the chance at a similar contract, he might bolt anyway.

  • GEAGLE

    Tim and Sheil…with the premium our coaches put on ST in terms of who made the team as a backup, how do you bring back a veteran safety who will cost some money, who can’t and WONT ever play ST for you?

    I’m allegedly the resident Rosey optimist, yet am I the only person that doesn’t want to overvalue our own guys? PLayers contract expiring is an opportunity to upgrade, yet now that it’s time to upgrade, everyone is nostalgic about our average at best players?

    You bring Back Donnie and Riley, maybe Mac if you feel like doing a good OL soldier a solid, and you take advantage of this opportunity to upgrade 6 roster spots…
    ….
    Nate won’t be good enough to keep us from drafting a safety high, and if you draft a safety high. You do so with the intention of him sooner or later stepping into the starting lineup….Casey was a starter last year! we signed him! paid him well! but a rookie was playing ahead of him. So what did Casey do? He busted his ass on ST all year…once that rookie we draft is ready to take over for Nate, Nate becomes a waste of a roster space! and since you aren’t just getting Nate to sign a contract making the veteran minimum. I see No reason why we would bring back Nate.

    If our coaches see the improvement he made and think they can turn him into a Longterm starter, then and only then do you sign Nate Allen…

    You can get similar talent, at a similar price who will actually play ST for you, if nTHEY are ever relegated to a backup…
    ….
    All the cap space in the worlds carried over a ton of cap space, no where near as many holes to fill as we thought we would have….yet people are talking like we are the cheap ass buffalo Bills….

    Take advantage of a quality safety market and upgrade the position…if we are going to give some one starter money/contract commitment, make sure they are good enough to where this safety issue is solved once and for all

    • Ark87

      It’s all about value. Like it or not, Nate was our best safety last season when you factor in durability and reliability. If there is 1 safety to keep besides Wolff, it’s Nate, but again, it all depends on the deal you can get. Ideally you do a deal friendly to the concept of letting him compete to be a starter, if he doesn’t become a starter, maker sure you can cut him if he doesn’t provide enough ST value. Even if he’s not an ST ace, we already keep a safety on the roster strictly for ST. I don’t mind having one strictly for depth. We might still be in the playoffs if we had a real safety in one spot, then having Nate, rather than Chung, filling in for an injured Wolff. All depends on how friendly the deal is.

      PS: You’re a love/hate guy (in that you either love players or hate them) more than a rosy optimist. Extremely passionate, not a lot of middle ground with you, and I know you have a passionate hate for Nate going waaaaay back. I totally respect that.

      • GEAGLE

        I don’t care what I think of a player..this is a crystal ball thread, and I’m giving you an oppinion of what I think our front office does this offseason….

        I’m a fan, so I would love to upgrade every single position that isn’t a probowler..but when I look at our entire situation, I think CHung is back for one year and Nate is gone..
        ..
        Me not liking Nate is a giant misconception…if Nate were under contract, I would be happy to have him back and see if he can build off this year. if I hated Nate and he were under contract, I would want to cut him, but that’s not the case at all…I HATE CHUNG and I HOPE he is cut, but if I had to guess what happens, then I think our FO keeps him for one year…..I WOULD LOVE to be wrong about this, and I hope I end up having to appologize for this and Chung’s gone..
        ….
        I just don’t think either is someone you pay and can’t count on starting. If neither is good enough, and we will ultimately have to transition away from both players. Then I don’t think Nate is so good, that we have to eat dead money cutting Chung, who you can ATleast count on to play ST for a year. we need two safeties starting or depth back that already know this defense and I don’t count Colt as a safety. To me, he is John Dorenbos Jr..”.

        so my crystal ball says: Chung and Wolff are back, 3 new safeties are added, and next year Chung gets replaced(conveniently we don’t eat any money cutting him next year)

        If I had a magic wand to waive, Chung would be the guy who’s contract is expiring, and Nate would be brought back for a year

        • Ark87

          I’d like to have him back with little to no money guaranteed, incentives to escalate if he wins a starting job, but gets paid as a back-up otherwise. Which honestly I think will be the only type of offers he gets. Whose going to pay him as a starter? I think people will let him compete, but that’s it. It would be nice to upgrade our starters and depth this offseason at that position.

          I think the FO makes him an offer…that Nate won’t be happy with, he will shop around. Depends what other teams offer him I think.

          I’m definitely not advocating that we get tied up in a long term starter type deal. We agree there.

      • Will

        Nate Goes cause he blows not hate…HONESTY from watching him muck up all these years and not show up on tape..last year of his contrac the plays a tad bit better..Meh….rather have rookie with heart….out there…

    • cliff henny

      dead on. have no desire to see nate back. his ceiling was this year, after about 6 games when Davis saw how limitations in Allen, was to not royally suck. was asked to do so little, and was average at that. if there’s 1 position kelly wants a playmaker, it’s deep middle safety. he wants those 50/50 balls to get his offense back on field. and this notion that allen will sign 2 yr eagle friendly contract when 31 teams needs safeties (Seattle, you think of any others?) need help, is ignoring market.

      • theycallmerob

        I disagree it is his ceiling; maybe talent-wise and personal ability, but an increase in pass rush would improve both his and the overall secondary play; i.e., more opportunities to makes plays on hurried or careless balls.
        I think Allen can be paired with a good S and start. We’re not talking long term, more than 2-3 years, but can work for a team with an aggressive front 7 and playmaker next to him.

        • cliff henny

          it’s resources. Allen cannot be your lead Vet safety. Wolff or rookie will need high quality player who can hide flaws while they grow, that is not Allen. if anything, Davis shifted defense to hide his flaws and wolff looked like better player the little he was out there. let’s say they sign whitner, which i’m fine with, he’s still going to be 6-7m cap hit per yr, and Allen is getting paid starters money, be conservative 4-5m, he’s better than chung. and, the teams whole goal would be to get Wolff or draft pick on field over Allen from the get-go. the guy has been benched 3 times i believe. could sell me on 1 yr stop-gap in Allen, but market will pay him more. yes, i dont like Allen, but think the theories of how he could be resigned are ignoring his value or really just how bad safety play in nfl is. someone will drive his price up enough, he wont make sense here. rather spend 10m on byrd/ward 9.5m wolff 500k than allen 4m and whitner 6m.

          • theycallmerob

            Using my #’s above, I’m assuming FA + Allen start, Wolff in Nickel package. Depending on his abilities, he may switch with Allen in that equation.

            Worst case would then be we’re overpaying Allen in ’14 (5.5mil cap hit) as essentially nickel DB, but that’s assuming the best case of having a great starter and Wolff really becoming a great #2. Opt out of my “fake deal” above in ’15, 4mil dead to Allen prorated over 2 years and 4.5mil cap savings to extend Wolff

        • GEAGLE

          rather see Wolff paired with a good safety to start
          ..
          But what CANT happen, is Wolff AND Nate being your starter.

          Me thinks Wolff will quickly provide better safety play then Nate ever has if you get him a safety version of Demeco Ryan to start next to.

          THink Wolff has a higher ceiling then aLlen

          • theycallmerob

            I’m afraid to say that after such limited playing time.

      • GEAGLE

        Opportunity to upgrade has finally come..its not time to be scared or sentimental…It’s time to AGGRESIVELY Solve this problem!

        • cliff henny

          opened up all this cap to spend on free agents this year. i figured it was because top half of draft was going to used to move up for qb. can front load huge contract, have plenty of space and wont interfere with future cap, cause ’15 cap will look better then ’14s – cole herremans graham and williams clears close to 20m.

          • GEAGLE

            That’s what the F I’m talking about Cliff…work that cap Boy!!!

          • cliff henny

            i dont want to sit around and have a beer, shoot the crap with Howie, but if he wants to come take a look at my books, i’ll bring him and ice tea

          • GEAGLE

            Love to hear you call his show on Mondays and start talking to him about front loaded contracts and what not…I would be crackin up if he had to answer questions to a fan that he couldn’t BS about contracts…had a few good convos this year with Howie..made sure he knew he couldn’t piss in my ear and tell me it’s raining

          • cliff henny

            yup, you could sign him to 5yr 43 m, make 4yrs 33m guarenteed, toss a signing bonus of 15m and have him play for vet min in ’14, he’d count 15m against. have to re-work peters jax ryans, maybe move on from celek casey avant to resign cooper and thornton. balance over next 3 yrs average him 6m and by 5th year, 3m dead but he gets a balloon payment of 10m if playing off charts, about what top of line safeties will be making in 5 yrs. everyone wins. drop signing bonus to 12m, increase yrs 2-4 yrs to 7m. pretty hard to structure where he isnt a liabilty for 4yrs.
            .
            works done for you Howie, sign us a F’n safety!

          • GEAGLE

            Hahahahahahahaha if it was mOnday, I’d call Howie and read him that post myself!!

            Can you believe Greg Oden played last night?

            Just sounds like poetic justice, to put up with Bynum for a year..and two years later be looking at Nerlens, next to the next Olajuwon, mr. Embiid….LOB CITY/Block party!!

          • cliff henny

            everyone wins. byrd gets paid, eagles have cap flexibility and great safety. lurie will write the check, we know that. think when people say there’s alot of teams inplay, that technically true. but ho many owners have appetite to write that check. and trust FO it right deal. eagles call byrd, he’ll take meeting, he knows they will pay.

  • Sig

    Sign Byrd or Ward, resign Allen, and have Wolff/Allen compete for one of the starting roles.

    • cliff henny

      wrapping about 14-15m in cap in safeties. Allen is getting starters money somewhere, north of Chungs. not really sure what Eagles have in Wolff, but he was better/showed more promise than both chung (not difficult) and Allen in limited snaps. wolff beats out Allen, have a guy making 4m-6m sitting on bench, that cant play special teams.
      .
      someone will pay Allen starters money. if he’d take 2-3m to play in philly on 2yr get out easily in 1 if he stinks still, then i’m all for it, but that wont happen. safety play in nfl is really that bad, a team will be happy to bring in Allen.
      .
      ex. was watching sixers game on charlotte tv, the announcers were going on and on about Turner and how Philly doesnt like him (after he had 3 shots blocked in 4 possessions, somehow scored twice). they were dumbfounded. thought we were nuts for hating the guy. ten bucks something is in the works, way too much mouthpiecing for turner by them,

      • GEAGLE

        I always said Charlotte and Chicago were the most likely destinations for ET…When you give up on the lottery and sign Al Jefferson! it means you have gotten impatient and want to win now. Charlotte isn’t high on Kidd Gilchrist, and Gerald Henderson is struggling….wouldn’t be surprised at all to see them trade for Chung.,they have 4 first round picks and are in win now mode….Hopefully we can get them to give us sniper Jeff Taylor and a draft pick

        Think Pheonix, OKC or Houston are the most likely destinations for Thad, but we won’t give him away, you either pony up for Thad, or we will bring him back…
        ..
        Hawes I could see going to Portland,OKC type of team
        ..
        Wish there was a way to get Giannis Antentekoumbo from the bucks..that kid will be so special it will be scary

        • cliff henny

          you would have laughed so hard. play by play guy said ‘and they dont like this guy’ and right on cue turner t-rex arms got his shot blocked. color guy, i’m not sure ever played past high school, was talking up starting 5 with turner at shooting guard. it was like they got marching orders to build up turner. and as little interest as that team generates, i cant see the FO actually worrying about it.
          .
          i want MKG. draft embiid and wiggins….have starting 5 of MCW, wiggins, mkg, noel and embiid, good luck passing in around and thru that!!! win game 55-50

          • GEAGLE

            Lol get that type of young talent! And il be a season ticket holder and not miss a single game..winning last night really pissed me off…

          • cliff henny

            yeah, i’ll be there with you. starting 5, non can drink. be like fab5 in philly.

          • GEAGLE

            I just hope Hinkie hurry up and moves ET and Hawes..it’s like I have this knot in my stomach that won’t go away til they are traded and I can sit here comfortable that we will suck enough to get our top pick!!!! Anything short of Wiggins or Embiid makes this year a failure…

          • Will

            Byrd or Ward/Whitner/Williams/Fletcher/Boykin…No More White Whale but Killer Bees for a back field….

          • cliff henny

            i will be shocked if turner doesnt end up in charlotte. if not, keep him, he helps the tank. Young needs to be moved. Hawes, plays so little defense. him in pick and roll is easy 2. not sure why teams dont run that every play.
            .
            or…AND!

          • GEAGLE

            Moultrie and Nerlens are getting closer to coming back…we can’t have Hawes help those two on the boards….go figure our friggin rookie is TOO GOOD! Lol that would be our luck..the one year we need to lose, we have a super rookie that keeps us in games,.,if they beat Miami tomorrow, I will lose it..
            ….
            Rathe see Hollis or Anderson playing over ET…that’s how you really TANK

          • cliff henny

            think we’re a couple weeks from all 3 getting shipped and a 1-19 streak. why would NN come back this year? if anything, last 6-8 weeks when MCW hitsrookie wall, he needs benched so he doesnt get hurt. last 1/3 of season is going to be nasty.

          • GEAGLE

            That would make me so happy!!! It shouldn’t be this hard to lose lol..We friggin suck, yet we are 3 games out of the 8th seed,..that’s FREIGHTENing when you think about it…we have to get worse!!!!! Lol the east is SOOO bad, that we are playing with fire…not sure if Nerlens will play or not! sounds like it….The fact that we have no depth, and no rebounding is how I’m banking on getting a top pick…I don’t need Moultrie and Noel coming in hitting the glass..

            What really drives me crazy, is watching ET build his value for the next team he signs with. Hate when he plays well and helps us win….if it weremt for those ridiculously three wins to start the year, and Thad deciding to play his way onto another team hitting 3’s at the buzzard, we would be sitting here with 9 wins, and I’d be feeling GOOD!!!

  • Sig

    All these Earl Thomas articles out there are making me more depressed then ever.

  • GEAGLE

    Like 30 FA safeties, 20mil I’m cap space carried over and we are sweating Nate Allen? Some immagination

    • therevxxx

      Who is sweating Allen? I think it is pretty clear that EVERYONE agrees we need an upgrade at Safety. The debate here is whether or not Nate should be resigned to be our 3rd or 4th safety.

      • GEAGLE

        3rd and 4th safeties play ST…Fullbacks are very important ST players, and considering we carry NONE, and only have 1 TE who plays ST, your 3rd and 4th safeties BETTER play ST!!!

        • Richard Colton

          can he take Roc Carmichel’s spot?

          • GEAGLE

            Nate doesn’t play ST, and from what I understand, he never will…I actually think Roc is also safe (don’t shoot the messenger)

          • Dominik

            As #5, I hope (instead of Marsh). We definitely need a CB. It doesn’t have to be a starter, but he has to be better than Roc (which isn’t that hard to find).

          • GEAGLE

            We will def add ATleast two depth CB, but I also expect Roc back…but I think he is the only CB on our bench that we probably view as worth continuing to develop
            ….
            hey, I would LOVE to upgrade every single player who isn’t good enough, but we have to pick and chose our battles..

          • Dominik

            The back-ups that come in if one player is hurt have to be our top choices of the battles we pick, at least from a depth standpoint. One injury to Williams or Fletcher and we have Roc in the game. That can’t happen again.

            On the other hand, I’m fine with keeping Coleman OR Chung. As #4. If two starters get injured, you can’t expect to have a good player out there (at least not in our situation). If they contribute on ST and are cheap, that’s ok.

          • GEAGLE

            Would expect a cheap veteran CB as emergency depth. A 4th or 5th round CB….and for Roc to be replaced, i think he would have to be outplayed by an Undrafted CB…

            I’m expecting Roc and Chung to be upgraded next offseason, unless they miraculously ball out this year…
            ….
            Ultimately I doubt any of these guys are will be good enough..the question in my mind is are they replaced NOW or NEXT offseason….and when I say that I expect guys like Chung and Roc back, it’s not because I think they are good enough or because I expect them to drastically improve..I think they will be back, simply because we have bigger fish to fry this offseason

          • anon

            i think chung is gone.

          • GEAGLE

            I hope you are right and I’m wrong…trust me, I can’t wait to get rid of him

          • cliff henny

            chung can be 4th safety behind FA, wolff, draft pick, and i wont go nuts. he is very good at special teams. think having to play so much ths year kept Eagles from using him there alot. not sure he deserves 3.5m, but Eagles do pay guys, they arent cheap. why i think they have a shot at Byrd, Lurie and Howie are no strangers to talking big numbers.

          • GEAGLE

            Yup…We forget, but when we was on the Pats, he had some monster ST games..if he is your 4th safety, focusing on ST, I don’t see why he can’t replace Colt as your ST ace..
            ..
            Also, we forget that Chung was playing drastically better early in the year, then down the stretch…Before he hurt his shoulder he was no where close to as bad as the recent putrid Chung thats stuck in our memory..he wasn’t playing so well that I would want him starting…but I wonder if he was playing thru a lingering shoulder?…
            ..
            As a bench player, he provides the proper balance of being one of our key ST guys, and filling in as an emergency 4th safety..as bad as we view Chung, in an emergency situation, he is drastically better then Coleman or Anderson on defense…so letting those two walk, and sliding Chung down the depth chart is how you improve the quality of your depth…ideally, he has to restructure…Doubt anyone would honor the monetary value of his current contract..

            And if he understands that he sucks, and likes it enough to commit to being our Ike Reese! next Colt Anderson type, then he can stay here another 3 years as far as I’m concerned…as bad as he is, there aren’t many teams with a better 4th safety

          • therevxxx

            what is stopping him from playing ST? I highly doubt Nate has said to Kelly “I refuse to play ST”. He used to play ST in college, so again, what is stopping him?

          • GEAGLE

            That he is a wimp…

            We can’t get him to consistently come up and hit a WR running a shallow cross, and you want Nate to run all the way down field as fast as he can like a borderline psycho and blast a returner? OUR Nate Allen? That’s just not his game

            Chung sucks, but ATleast he will play his ass off on ST, and has had success with it in the past…ultimately I want neither in our future plans! just so happens Nates the one who’s contract expires now, and Chung has the fortune of being on a team that already has to replace 3 players at his position,.
            ,,
            In terms of taking the field next year as a safety, of course I’d rather have Nate..But I believe if you don’t want to replace your starting CBs, then a safety who will be the best player in your secondary has to be added….Not to mention, Wolff being able to play next to a top veteran, the way Kendrick has Meco..
            ,,,
            Like we can’t be contenders, and replace our entire team..we can’t have it both ways…and we can’t call ourselves contenders if we are just going to start 3-4 more rookie defenders to an already inexperienced group,..so Howie needs to count his damn pennies, and add a few quality veterans we can count on, and then he can still sign his 5 fringe guys and hope is batting average continues to pay off.

            Even the dirty Miser banner added big names that weren’t Busts!! I don’t want to hear about how NNamdi and DRC failed, when we payed big money for guys that helped us in the past like Assante,Runyan the freak

      • Ark87

        Don’t look at signings as signing starters or depth or camp bodies. In reality you are signing players, then you let them set the depth chart themselves. If Allen re-signs, he will understand nothing is being handed to him. Truth is, this is one of the teams, given the competition, he will have the best chances of being a starter in this league. If we grab a big name, I think he takes an offer elsewhere.

        • therevxxx

          I understand that, but why not sign him 1st then. It shouldn’t take much money to get him to stay (assuming he wants to come back). Don’t we need at least (2) good safeties this offseason? Wolf + (2). Are you comfortable with Chung/Coleman as our depth safeties? I would like Allen + a big name. Fine let them compete, and tell them they are competing, but we all know that Allen will not win the job. Then he will become a solid 3rd safety which we need.

          • Ark87

            true enough, I can agree with that.

          • GEAGLE

            How much money do you think it cost to keep Nate? A petty lil 2mil per year won’t get it done..casey and Chung just got 3.5-4 on last years market…Nate Allen will cost at the very least 3.5mil per, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more like 5.5-5mil per…

          • therevxxx

            Yeah, I think we could get Nate for about the same that we got Chung for 3.5 – 4 mil. I could be mistaken, but I thought that when we got Chung he was looked at as a solid safety. Forget about how he is looked at now. That is not the case with Allen. I am just talking about NFL perception of these guys. I would say Chung 2012 > Allen now in perception. So no, I don’t think Allen would get a bigger contract then Chung got.

            Also, I think it is def worth it to pay Allen 3.5 regardless of whether he wins the starting job or not. We saw what happened this year with no safety depth. I say we win the Saints game if we didn’t have to play Chung. We have enough cap space to sign a stud Safety and Allen.

          • GEAGLE

            Chung was looked at as a safety that went into free agency, permenantly benched by Bellicek…Nate is going into FA ATleast looking like a starter

          • therevxxx

            I gotta disagree with ya there. Most people were excited when Chung was signed and most did not look at him like you claim.

            “When healthy, there are few safeties in the league capable of making the impact that Chung can inside the box. He’s an excellent blitzer, can be average in coverage, and is one of the team’s best special teams players.” – This is what the Patriots blog said about him.

            “Chung, 25, should start immediately at SS.” BGN mentioned he would be a starter. Go read the article from BGN when we signed him.. virtually everyone was excited.

            Only concern with him was his injury history. We weren’t talking about him getting benched.

          • therevxxx

            But either way…neither guy was/is looked at as anything more than a middle of the road guy. Chung was avg.. Allen is slightly better. I am not claiming he is an integral piece or anything, but I do believe he has value.

            I’ll say it again, we can’t go into next season with only Wolff and whoever else we sign. We need 3 guys at least that are capable of competing for a starting job.

          • GEAGLE

            I’ll say it again…get me one safety that we can count on starting for 3years, and then I’ll be happy to get greedy and start looking for the 3rd starting safety…

          • GEAGLE

            Actually I was both excited about the signing of Chung, and I knew he was coming off a year where he was relegated to second string…I even gave him a nickname “Chunger”…but like Pollard, he was a KNOWN coverage lIability, who was supposed to ATleast bring sure tackling, physical presence against the run….his tackling, run support And blitzing was No where near good enough to put up with his coverage liability….if you can’t cover a lick, then you better come up and lay the smack down like a pollard…Chung fell way short…

            I don’t know if you were on this board this time last year, but I remember plenty of people who were down on the signing??and if like me! you were actually OK with the signing, it’s probably because anything was an upgrade to what we saw the year before…we were coming off a year where we watched some of the worst secondary play in the history of the NFL…Last year, Chung was an upgrade..this year, we are a playoff team and I have loftier expectations then continuing to jerk around with a problem that has cost us since Dawk and mIkkell

          • therevxxx

            I have said this numerous times throughout the thread today and feel you are ignoring my main point, so I will say it one more time. We NEED to sign a STUD safety. NEED! Allen is NOT that safety…. but we can’t go into next season with only the STUD safety and Wolff. We need a 3rd guy to compete with those guys!

            I believe Allen is that guy to push them. Allen has earned that chance. Not many guys could be drafted in the 2nd rd, get injured, struggle for 2 years, be called out by the Media, the fans, etc… then bounce back and have a solid year.

            And again, we have plenty of cap space to sign the Stud AND Allen.

          • GEAGLE

            Let me say this again, YOUR THIRD SAFETY CANT command 4-5Mil and NOT play ST!!!!!!!
            .,
            Dont worry, if all it costs is two mil to bring Nate back! he will be here….but once you have to match a 4mil offer for him, you can kiss Nate Bye bye

            We may be too cheap to sign a stud safety, and you are shouting to me about signing a stud AND his 4million dollar back up? I’d like to have a 4million dollar backup at every single position, but I get a sneaky suspicion that it doesn’t work that way

          • therevxxx

            You never answered before… why can’t Allen play ST? He played in college. What am i missing there?

          • therevxxx

            We don’t need a 4 mil backup at every position. That is not a sustainable way to build a team. But this year coming up, we can afford that luxury at safety. This past year we could afford that at TE (Casey). It changes every year.

            Also, where is the guarantee that Wolff beats out Allen for the starting job??? Is that set in stone? Maybe we end up paying Allen 4 Mil to start and Wolff is the back up. Remember this is a competition. No jobs are handed out.

          • GEAGLE

            He is a wimp, who can barely tackle having only to run 10 yards to his man, and you want him to run 80 yards down the field, at full speed, crash Into blocker and then blast the return man? Some how I don’t see him wired to play ST, and I doubt anyone would count on a guy who hasn’t played ST to college, to just turn on the Psycho switch and go play ST…

            God, if I start seeing Nate Allen’s on our coverage units we are in trouble

          • therevxxx

            Well he did have the 3rd most tackles (solo + assists) on the team this year, so he can obviously tackle.

            I don’t understand your 2nd sentence. He did, in fact, play ST in college, so if he could do it then, why can’t he do it now?

          • GEAGLE

            No, no, no…let me ask you a question. Late in the season, when Colt and Coleman were hurt, why didn’t fellow safety Nate Allen replace them on ST INSTEAD of OUR TWO STARTING CBs? That should tell you all you need to know about ST!! We elected to replace safeties with our CBs instead of Nate lol

          • therevxxx

            Why are you ignoring my question?? It is an honest question.
            As for your question:
            I don’t know, there are a number of possible reasons… Only the staff could answer.
            1)But maybe our starting CBs are better ST players than Allen. That doesn’t mean he can’t do it, just that they wanted the best talent out there.
            2)If Colt and Coleman were hurt, then that means our safety depth was pretty thin. Maybe coaching thought that it was safer to risk an injury to a CB than a Safety.

            There is no set rule that says you have to put your Safety on STs over your CB. Our new staff thinks outside the box.

          • GEAGLE

            Really? #2 takes a lot of audacity when your best backup CB is Roc Carmichael. Nate Allen doesn’t play ST, he just doesn’t. Wtf you want me to tell you? When I see an NFL coach trust him to run 80yards down field like a psycho and make a play,I will make sure to appologize to you…….You know why Cary and Brad playedc ST., because they stepped up an Volenteered..YOUR CBs should be nothing but gunners on ST…
            ..
            We were thin on ST. Which had been killing us for weeks, and we replaced Safeties with CBs….what kind of safety is so NOT physical that he would let his CB replace his fellow safeties? You don’t see a problem with having two CBs who are tougher then your safety?
            ….
            You are right and I’m wrong..Nate is the next Colt Anderson, future ST MVP…let’s move on

          • therevxxx

            I am not claiming to be right. I am trying to have a simple conversation about it and you are making assumptions left and right. Then ignoring questions you don’t want to answer.

            FACT: Nate Allen played ST in college, You keep ignoring that.

            Assumption: Cary & Brad volunteered to play ST. How do we know that? How do we know Nate didn’t volunteer? We have no idea how this went down.

            FACT: Roc Carmichael was our back up CB. Yes you got that right. I think he sucks and hope to never see him again, but he was semi-serviceable. But if Colt and Coleman were injured, who exactly was our depth behind Allen?? If the coaching staff believed that Roc was serviceable, and also believed that they didn’t have any serviceable guys behind Allen, then why would they risk an injury to Allen.

            We don’t know how any of this went down. But you are acting like you know better than everyone else how it did.

          • GEAGLE

            College was 4 years ago…I thought it was a known fact that Nate doesn’t play ST…He has NEVER played it against men at this level and I can’t recall too many safeties who weren’t physical ever play ST…you are entitled to b ok with a guy who hasn’t played ST in almost half a decade, but I would have to see it to believe it…he had a chance to step up, but he let our CBs raise their hand and do the dirty work

          • therevxxx

            Again, how do you know he didn’t offer his services? More assumptions.

            It is probably too late in the convo for this, but I think you have me read wrong. I don’t like Nate Allen. I want guys to replace him. But, I think he has earned another year to prove if he can be a decent safety or not. I don’t want to go into next season with Wolff, Stud and a 4th/5th round pick who is a question mark. Allen has shown that he is not a liability in this new defensive system. Forget what he was the past 2 years, that was a different system. We aren’t going to hold it against Foles that he sucked in Reid’s system.

            At the end of the day, I believe that Allen is better for the 2014 Eagles than a 4th/5th round safety. And that is what it is all about. Building the best team of 53 guys possible.

          • GEAGLE

            If he is back, I will make sure to appologize!
            ..
            My personal crystal ball says the only guys we,bring back are Coop,punter and maybe Maclin…we shall see

          • therevxxx

            In fantasy world, I wouldn’t want him back. I would find (2) upgrades for him. I just don’t know how feasible that is. I am just passionate about needing safety depth this season.

            But I agree w/ your crystal ball — wildcard on Allen.

          • GEAGLE

            My guess:
            Byrd/Ward…I’m not sure if it’s a guess, or me hoping
            Wolff
            3rd-5th round safety
            Undrafted safety
            And sign another teams “Nate”, 25yr old who underproduced hoping a change of scenery helps…
            ..
            I don’t see us bringing Nate back unless it only costs two mil! which I doubt. But believe me, I’m a defensive NUT Job who would love to have Nate sit the bench in case of an emergency!!!I I just think it’s a far fetched scenario, but I’d love to be wrong…
            ,,
            If we sign Nate. I think that means we didn’t sign a top safety, and chose to go with Nate and someone in his price range like major wright! or some other B lister that would piss me off

          • therevxxx

            I will be very unhappy with a B-lister. I think our NEED list is very short (we could upgrade plenty), and if we don’t fill the needs I will be disappointed because it seems sooo easily possible.

  • Token

    Sorry, but I dont think he improved that much. A bit, sure.

    But there were many plays were Allen was let off the hook by bad throws or drops. He looked nearly as out of place as in seasons before.

    Dont keep trash for the sake of keeping trash. Time to move on.

    • cliff henny

      being hidden and reduced of responsibilities so you dont suck as much, isnt really a guy i’m excited about resigning.

  • JofreyRice

    I look at it like this:

    With Allen hitting FA, the Birds are going to pay someone to come in and start at S for them, because it’s not going to be Chung & Wolff (I really, really hope). So they’re in the market for a starting safety, one way or the other. The question isn’t how much a guy like Byrd, Ward, Whitner, or Clemons would cost, it’s really how much more would they cost, as compared to bringing back Nate Allen at starter’s money, or someone similar. So if Nate commands 2 mil/year, and Byrd commands 8, the 6 mil delta is what you should consider against how much better Byrd makes your defense. I think it’s well worth it.

    Allen was better this year, but he’s been benched as a starter now 3 separate times in his career (2x for Kurt Coleman, once for Colt Anderson). Safeties having run responsibilities is not abnormal. I think the removal of those duties, along with the cornerbacks playing off-coverage, primarily, tells you something about the coaches opinions on the players, more than their overall defensive philosophy.

    • Richard Colton

      agree 100%. While I’m generally opposed to throwing money at a problem in FA, the “hard-hitter-who-can-cover-and-has-no-weaknesses” has been this team’s bugbear for years. If we need to overpay a bit to turn a deficiency into a strength, I’m OK with it. It’s not like the class of ’12 or ’13 need to be paid right away – isn’t this a year we can splurge at a position?

      • GEAGLE

        It was supposed to be that kind of offseason..I mean the Eagles couldn’t wait to tell everyone how awesome our salary cap situation was, how much money they would carry over into this year….we have significantly less major holes to address then we expected to have, and now that we have the best safety market we could imagine sitting in front of us, everyone acts like we are the cheap ass Bills..
        ….
        No one is suggesting going all Dan Synder and signing a dream team..Our Strategy is sound…but I find it absurd to think we can’t significantly improve one stinking position in free agent. A position that has KILLED us for so many years..

        Nate Allen is going to get a starting caliber offer from someone. He won’t be signing some 4th string veteran minimum contract…Antione bathea, Chris Clemons, these dudes are all going to cost MILLIONS, and multiple year commitments…James Casey got a 4mil per contract last offseason…someone is going to give Clemons, 4-5mil per, someone wil give bathea 4mil per..Nate probably gets ATleast what Chung got last year if not more..If we have to pay someone 4-5mil, then just pony up the extra 2 mil! spend some money on 1 stinking player who we can count on to be an ELITE solution to a critical issue that has been killing us for what seems like a decade

        Signing someone you can count on to not need upgrading for 3 years, would also mean that we can actually stick to the Best player available strategy that we like to talk about so much….
        ,..
        Sign Nate Allen, and say the best player available won’t be a safety til round 5 again…and we will risk having the same exact liability that is too tough to hide and will keep us from really being a serious contender……

        When will we ever be so fortunate again, that a major hole happens to be one of the strengths of this FA market! and the two Top guys at the position are players our coaches know! How often can you pay BIG MONEY for a player, and have so much of the guess work removed from the equation, because your DC was on a staff with Ward a year ago, and both Byrd and Ward were Ducks?

        Let Oakland have their choice, and take whichever is left over, so we can stop talking about this damn safety liability once and for all..

        • macadood

          that’s it, I’m putting on some muscle and going to train become an NFL caliber safety and get paid millions. It’s crazy how starved this position is all around the league, what’s the cause of this? Just that most guys with the physical gifts would rather play linebacker or cornerback?

          • GEAGLE

            For years it was undervalued, the money went to the CBs..now that all these super TEs are emerging, and teams are using 3 and 4 WRs instead of the traditional two outside WR’s Safeties are becoming more and more important…
            ..
            Teams are using so many three and 4 WR sets that what good is paying a boatload to one CB any more?

      • Ark87

        I think so. Anytime you have a QB playing like a franchise QB, but making scrub money, swing for the fence. It’s one of the reasons that Seattle and San Francisco are so complete (they’ve been able to keep their draft hits AND pick up some key FA’s). Don’t get in too deep long term, of course.

        • GEAGLE

          Yup..we have a small window where so many of our important pieces are making cheap rookie money…so let’s take advantage of this window, and sign the best quality we can find that allow us to structure their contract where we can easily get out of it in two or three years

    • GEAGLE

      Exactly!!!!

    • cliff henny

      signing 1 guy, who’s 25 yrs old, 3 time pro-bowler in a position that extremely tough to draft while rest of the roster has young up-and-coming talent everywhere… isnt the same as drafting like garbage for 4 or 5 yrs, having old roster with no young blood behind it and glaring holes everywhere and over paying 5 or 6 other side of 30 named players.
      .
      get Howie likes to have a catch-all new strategy that he can portray to the media, but have to adapt to the roster as things change. after draft, Eagles shouldnt have need for 5 or 6 mid level free agents. maybe back-up OL and corner, safety-depending who gets resigned, rest should pretty well be handled.

      • JofreyRice

        and, it could always be a smokescreen.

        • cliff henny

          yup…may-oct, believe howie is lying 99% of the time, these next 3 months, about 99.9999~%

      • Tom W

        28 in october just sayin.

    • SoCalEaglesFan

      2 million per year for Allen (which isn’t unreasonable for him) would be in the lower third of the league in starting safety salary. Not exactly what the team should aiming for if they want to upgrade the position.

  • Absecon

    Personally, I think you have to throw out Allen’s middle years if you really want to understand this year’s improvement. His injury overlapped into his second year AND that fell under the disaster that was the Castillo/Washburn/Wide 9/Namdi/DRC debacle. That makes Allen’s 3rd year a throw out as well. This past year was essentially his 2nd year progress wise. I always argued the team owed Allen this year as a starter to really see what they had. If this was Allen’s 2nd year do you give up on him? I think Tim and Sheil nailed it with where he is now and where the front office goes with it. If you can get one of the best FA safeties, great, if not Allen is not the worst way to proceed with Wolff and any other FA’s or draft picks to compete with. Just like the past few years, w/o a consistent pass rush even an upgraded secondary will get torched more than they will make plays. An effective rush linebacker in this scheme is what is needed most to move closer to a Seattle or San Fran defense, and that is the model/next level that wins a trip to the Super Bowl….

    • Richard Colton

      his potential is going to cost a DC his job. isn’t that how the old wag goes?

      At 26, I needed to see something more by now. I don’t hate the idea of bringing him back, but he isn’t quality starter on an NFL team.

  • addicted2mula

    CHIP KELLY IS THE COACH OF THE YEAR!!!

    • Ark87

      breaking news or enthusiastic endorsement?

      • therevxxx

        Not the official NFL coach of the year… voted by Maxwell Football..

      • Dominik

        Thought the same. NFL.com has nothing yet, so probably an endorsement.

    • NickS1

      Link?

    • GEAGLE

      He is the Maxwell football coach of the year…is that the same thing as the NFL coach of there year?

      • addicted2mula

        I said my bad.

        • GEAGLE

          A) I was just asking
          B) I wrote that before you responded

          • addicted2mula

            Oh thought you was being funny. I see your name all over the site thought you know everything about Eagles lol

          • GEAGLE

            Almost everything :)

  • R. Colton’s Wine Glass

    Dick and I know all too well that Allen will never live up to his 2nd round selection. Not his fault, but he was over drafted, and it has hurt his play. We’re happy he’s turned himself into a serviceable safety, but we need a play maker. He can stick around in the interim while the search continues, but only if we get a better pass rush to help him out.

  • UncleCarm

    I think the thing to consider here is depth. If the Eagles let Allen walk and the new, high priced guy goes down (which happens) then they are in worse shape than they are right now. Allen does a workman like job and isn’t outstanding at any particular thing, so I don’t think his FA interest will price the Eagles out of the market. Also, we know FA acquisitions do not always pan out. At least with Allen we know what we have.

    • JofreyRice

      If he returns at backup money, I’d do it. I just don’t want them to re-sign him and call it a day.

      • cliff henny

        plus, a 2 yr get out easily in 1 contract, he doesnt bring anything to team if he isnt starting. Allen will get better offers in free agency. he’ll get 4m at least. Byrd/ward 8m or Allen 4m, that’s a no-brainer

        • GEAGLE

          Chung got what 3.5per? And he came off a much worse year then Nate is coming off of…Nate prob gets 4-5’because he is stylistically a cover type..If Nate gets 4million dollars, then Ward and Byrd are a bargain at 7

  • anon

    Honestly I say nate allen and riley cooper are the same. He had his best year, why not see what he can do a on a 3 year deal? I think his ceiling is a little higher than where he’s playing now so for the right price i’d take him and the number 3-5 safety (I think price will be WAY lower) and then try to grab on in the draft. I’d be ok if Nate is the 2/3 safety if there are some developmental guys.

  • Brandon

    Why is no one talking about Whitner on SF. I believe he’s a UFA. Dudes a beast.

    • bentheimmigrant

      Define “no one”… There’s a conversation in this thread about him.

    • cliff henny

      when i go to a bar, i dont stare and talk to my buddies about the 4th/5th prettiest girl in the room.

      • Clamdigger

        Exactly. The 7th and 8th prettiest girls are way easier.

        • cliff henny

          yeah, but we dont have 20m which can easily be increased to 35m in our pockets. when you have that, cant sit at the hot girl buffett line and pick and choose.

          • GEAGLE

            Let Oakland pay for one, And take whichever Duck is left over, so we don’t have to talk about starting safeties for 3 years.
            ..
            Sign Byrd, and a cheap low end veteran who is only competing for a roster spot in camp…then draft a 4th-5th round safety, sign an Undrafted one..And let the Undrafted safety compete with the low end veteran for a roster spot…the low end veteran should be reasonable young so he can play ST, so need coming off a rookie contract

          • cliff henny

            draft von miller Jr and TO jr without headaches,foles becomes Brady jr, and we sit back and collect hardware! not hard howie, get it done

          • GEAGLE

            Tell em Cliff…I mean it’s not that complicated…stop screwing around with safety, adress is correctly in FA, so we can use our first two picks on the most talented OLB and WR we can find……and then start addressing the depth across the board

      • DLRJ

        Two things. One, if we go with your analogy, Whitner is the third prettiest, isn’t he? Two, if picking up the hottest girl in the room came at the cost of not being able to afford to date anyone else in a couple years, I’d go value and bag the 4th prettiest. She still looks a damn lot hotter than the mess we’ve been banging, and she allows us to keep our options open.

  • Tom w

    He is replaceable talent. Not a playmaker or ballhawk. Let’s take this chance to upgrade our roster or get younger. Can’t have average starters or well paid backups who don’t play special teams.

  • Clamdigger

    I think sometimes people get caught up in trying to get “studs” at every position. That’s not realistic with a salary cap. Sometimes you have to just find good system players.

    It seems to be common with teams that have a string of strong drafts, and then they may hit a drought at some point and contracts start coming up and they end up getting eaten alive by their own contracts because they haven’t been able to draft depth and replacements for the guys that they can’t afford to pay anymore.

    If you draft a guy that turns out to be a stud, consider yourself lucky to have him for the first 4 years. If you can re-sign him, then that’s awesome, but you better have someone behind him ready to go, because it’s really hard to get in to bidding wars to keep your own players.

    • ftotheyu

      I generally agree with you but on our defense we have 0 studs outside of maybe Fletcher Cox. It’s been said over and over how hard it is to scout safeties, so now there are two verifiable studs available via FA and both played under Chip Kelly in Oregon. I don’t see how we can afford not to make a huge push to sign one of them. And they’re only 27–this isn’t like signing an over-the-hill Nnamdi or Jevon Kearse where their prime were likely already behind them.

  • Fox Mulder

    I want to believe this will happen. Edit: Letting Allen walk, that is.

  • theycallmerob

    I think Allen can be paired with a good S and start. We’re not talking long term, more than 2-3 years, but can work for a team with an aggressive front 7 and playmaker next to him.
    **-cliff, may need some math help…started to get a bit confused with dead $…

    I’d go 3 yr, 21mil, 9.5M of that guaranteed, 6M signing bonus prorated 3 yr (same as sconces, essentially, little more guaranteed)

    ’14- 5.5mil cap, 3.5mil base, 2mil bonus (fully guaranteed)
    ’15- 6.5mil cap, 4.5mil base, 2mil bonus; 4mil dead/4.5mil savings if cut; fully guarantee base at start of FA
    ’16- 9mil cap, 7mil base, 2mil bonus (essentially opt-out year) 2mil dead/7mil cap savings if cut

    For a #2 Safety, it’s really a 2yr/12mil deal, 9mil guaranteed, team option 3rd year/9mil (which he’d never see unless somehow becomes all-pro; by ’16, you’d hope star FA or stud draft pick is starting at least 1 spot)

    • cliff henny

      dead money is impossible to figure, all depends on base salaries. more put in base, less in bomuses, the quicker dead money goes down.
      .
      serious, wrap all that money up in Allen? not with you on this one Rob. cause you’d have to spend 1-2m more a yr to get him a Whitner type running mate, Nate Allen cant be your best safety to consider having an above average secondary. can sign Byrd/Ward for less than those 2 combined, who’s better than whitner, and pay Wolff or draft pick 500k, and think Wolff in little playing time showed more than Allen has in last 3 years. you’ll be spending 12-18m per yr for inferior play that you can get for 10m-12m.
      .
      Rob,i generally agree with you, but this one i cant see.

      • theycallmerob

        yea, really hard to offer him more than 1 yr with a worthwhile guarantee and not start to balloon that base. I was doing that as an exercise in math more than hopes and dreams. I just thought those are realistic cap hits for him in ’14 and ’15, based on market-value.

        Again, that would all be assuming terrific front 7, and no real need to be extra cheap with Foles and Shady signed. Really hard to say how much faith DAVIS and Chip have in Wolff

        (also, I included bases, that’s just where I’m not sure I did the dead $ math correct. refresh the page- I tweaked the #’s a bit)

        • cliff henny

          your math in contracts is correct-pretty much how Eagles do it, but GM’s can do funny things, generally huge bonuses, the Dallas way. look at Fisher, Jordan and Lane’s contract on overthecap.com. almost same money, but dead money in other 2 are monsterous, while Lane could be cut in ’16 and save Eagles cap space.
          .
          but if front 7 is good for whitner/allen, it’ll be just that much better with Byrd/Wolff-think a better combo, and 5m in savings. worst case with Wolff, he’s a lateral move to what Allen showed over past 2 yrs. once pointed in right direction, Wolff does damage when he gets there…it’s the pointing in right direction he needs some work on. did show improvement. i’d much rather pay wolff 500k than Allen 5m.

          • GEAGLE

            YES! YES! YES!! I just did my Diego Sanchez “Yes cartwheel”

          • theycallmerob

            As I said to Anon, I am fully on board with this assuming we get Byrd or Ward, and upgrade the pass rush. That, by making the QB’s life more difficult and shortening time a play is being run, will lessen the likelihood of Wolff being exposed in coverage (which I saw as more an exp. thing with him anyway, but it does exist)

    • anon

      That’s way to much for someone who will be competing for a starting spot.

      • theycallmerob

        I’d only agree with that if we’re guaranteed to lock up Byrd or Ward this year, with a 10+mil cap hit contract

  • Tonybabo

    Allen is horrible. I’m sorry. You let him walk. I’ve never seen a safety so scared of contact. You have earl Wolff as one starter then you sign Byrd or ward there are your safties. I guess if you want Allen as a back up but to me you can find someone else. Let him go. I’ve said all year the worst safety in league is Chung the second is Allen. I disagree he had a bounce back year or was even competent. Davis did a good job of hiding Allen. Guy can’t play run, I think he avoids hitting. Look at tape only time you see Allen is after the play is over. You see the back of his jersey. Chung atleast was aggressive trying to make a play. Allen hits wrong gap consistent, can’t cover. I tell everyone truth he drove me nuts for two years I can’t take another year of him. He has to go

  • morgan c

    Haha, Sheil has us resigning zero of our own free agents. We’ll see about that; personally, I doubt it.

    • GEAGLE

      Coop and Donnie football….take advantage of the opportunity to upgrade the other 6 roster spots…

      • anon

        Whhy Coop over Allen? Also does anyone know if Coop plays ST?

        • GEAGLE

          Coop used to be a ST BEAST!
          ..
          Not sure what you are asking..Coop is a WR, Allen is a safety…

          • anon

            Why keep coop and move allen? Seems like there’s more options at WR – Coop is good not great – and lots of WR options in draft / FA. Even though Coop is better than Allen i think Allen plays a position of greater scarcity.

            I asked if Coop played ST, if we get a WR1/2 in the draft and Coop is a WR3 then he’ll have to play ST. If he did play ST then i think that gives him a leg up on allen who doesn’t.

          • GEAGLE

            The free agent market sucks at WR, who’s out there? Decker? Replacing Riley with the options on the market smells of change for the sake of change…doubt those guys you want to replace with breasted their way to 10TDs…WR is a diva position, and we ask ours to block 50% of the time. Unless you are signing someone is a definite upgrade, I’d rather keep our continuity and chemistry with our young QB.
            ..
            Coop finally got his shot, and made the most of it..he is young enough and tailor made for this offense that I don’t believe this year was some fluke. I see NO reason why Nick will stop throwing it up to him, and I see No reason why he would stop coming down with those jump balls….I see no reason why he will stop punishing DBs in the run game, and I think it would be fair to assume that a young WR and a young QB will improve, now having a season in a new offense under it’s belt,…I don’t get this fascination with allowing Coop to walk, the kid is 25 years old, we have plenty of money to where we can ADD to Coop, instead of replacing him….Decker is a product of Peyton,hakim Nicks is a fragile girl. Maclins knee is a question, Danario’s knee is a question….all the guys on the market will cost money….and I trust Coop to continue to THRIVE in THIS offense, with THIS QB, and THIS coach..

            What kind of message does it send to lose Coop when you are sitting on 35mil? “Don’t produce too much in this offense, don’t buy in and block your ass off too well or you will be replaced?
            ..
            IF you think our young players who showed some promise will improve once they get some continuity in these schemes, with these coaches, and these team mates…then I don’t know why that wouldn’t extend to 25year old Riley Cooper, coming off his first year with a real Role in an offense?
            ,,,
            The cowboys and their screwed up Cap, has to let players like Riley Walk…

            35 Mil under the cap and Now Not Only can’t we sign top FA that fill major holes, but now we can’t afford to keep our young players either? What the hell are we doing with this money then?

          • anon

            It’s not just Coop, it’s Maclin as well, who i think is a more versatile WR. Coop can catch jump balls and is good in the redzone. He’s not especially quick and he’s not a great route runner. His value is in the red zone. Coop had 3 games over 100 yds and after week 10 only 2 games over 50 yds receiving (his avg is 52 yds/game) for our no. 2 receiver on the second best offense in the NFL! All season he only had 3 games over 100yds.

            Guys like Jacoby Jones, Ted Ginn, McCluster are available, guys that can return and be moved all over the formation get RAC and stretch the field. I think this is actually a pretty good FA for CK-type WRs especially if we get a big guy in the draft which isn’t hard. Maclin will also be playing with a chip on his should b/c he knows he’ll have to show and prove.

          • GEAGLE

            McCluster is NOT a replacement for an outside WR,
            Jacoby came up small in his chance at being a starting outside WR
            Ted Ginn I wouldn’t want to count on as anything more then a return man..very hot/cold as a WR
            ….
            Exactly what I mean….change for the sake of change

            I wouldn’t mind McCluster, but he is a specialty player/return man, not a replacement for Coop

          • anon

            All of them are return guys + WR, Jacoby is probably the best on that list. I think they’d be good middle of the field / in space (though Jacoby is fast enough to play outside) guys b/c they are quick and can make people miss. Coop’s replacement is Malcin or in the draft where there’s more big fast WRs.

            I don’t blame Jacoby for not being able to fill Boldin’s shoes, Flacco’s year was terrible. But he had the 4th highest avg. return yds this year (Hester, FA, was first), that’s despite missing several games with a tweaked knee. Baltimore might try to pay him but they have cap trouble as well.

          • anon

            I agree that we’re cheap but how many WRs can we keep? We could keep Coop / Mac / FA / Rookie / Djax and have the same number of personnel that we had this year — i’m mixed on whether avant needs to be here, he’s a pros pro, but he’s not productive.

          • GEAGLE

            For starters, let’s upgrade Maehl and Damaris…once those spots are filled with WRs who bring something to the offense, then it be a lot easier for me to start thinking about upgrading our better WRs…you also seem to have a lot more trust then I do with Maclin coming back from injury…I’m ok with bringing him back, if he doesn’t cost us Riley, and if we aren’t bringing back Maclin and counting on him. Signing Maclin should just be a flier

          • cliff henny

            i want Maclin back just to see kelly’s reaction to a Self-Tacklin’

          • anon

            Our two best skill players are self tacklin for their positions. If he can block, catch, run i think we’ll be ok.

          • cliff henny

            shady’s allowed. i want him to live in padded house. heck, wrap him in bubbled-wrap too. jax didnt do too bad this yr. but it must bother JM some that those 2 get away with it, and he get crushed for it.

  • SoCalEaglesFan

    Going after a mid-level safety is exactly what they did last year by signing Chung. How’d that work out? They took a cheap medical chance on Kenny Phillips too. Time to stop playing games at the position. Too many teams have the same need. I agree with Sheil in that they have to pursue Byrd or Ward and hopefully land one of them. The Chip Kelly connection can’t hurt.

    Yes, still draft one (or two) if they happen to be good value as well. The bigger need than safety is a pass rushing linebacker. They don’t grow on trees either and are even more important.

    A mediocre secondary suddenly looks a lot stronger when the QB is under duress.

    • GEAGLE

      A friggin MEN!!

      Last years strategy was understandable when you had 9 starting spots to fill, and haven’t yet established your culture/locker room…..
      ..
      This offseason we have few starting Roles to fill, so continuing to screw around with the safety position is unacceptable..
      ..
      Just sign 1’guarenteed starter, BYRD or WARD…resign Coop, franchise the punter if you have to…The rest of the signings can all be low cost-mid level guys who will be depth players that maybe can become starters….1 STARTER that we can count on to play at a high level should NOT be too much to ask when you have 35mil in Cap space and are already one of the youngest teams in the league

    • Tom W

      Lots of teams need a safety — raiders and bears especially … cowboys but they are broke.

      • GEAGLE

        Bengals, skins, packers, rams, Bills will be in the market for a Nate type

        • Tom W

          Brown is pretty cheap owner .. maybe the cheapest w cards owner .. and they have other decisions to make next year w a stacked roster … If I was them I would keep drafting studs like they have for 3-5 yrs now …

          • GEAGLE

            Yeah they def ain’t signing A Ward or Byrd type..I can see that owner going after someone like Nate

        • cliff henny

          save time..everyone but Seattle

  • Tom W

    Thought everyone on the blog would enjoy:

    Sportrac’s indepth and well written research paper on theorizing J. Byrd’s contract

    http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-jairus-byrd-v2-407/

    Looking at a range of 5 yrs 40 million (17 mil true guaranteed) — 5 years 46 million (19 mil guaranteed).

    Would believe that Ward falls closer down the range:

    5yrs for 34 million (15 mil true guaranteed) – 5yrs for 40 mil (17 mil guaranteed).

    Profootballfocus’ FA safety tracker w 2013 grades and snaps … remember Byrd missed 5 games or his number would be higher — sportrac picks up on this as well finding he offers a serious premium

    • Tom W

      Sheil— Would be nice to see a performance chart like sportrac’s research paper comparing last 2 years between Byrd, Ward, Whitner, Clemons, Nate Allen so we could see how much better Byrd is

    • Will

      Front load those contracts…

      • Tom W

        front loading only helps not having dead money at the end of the contract .. I don’t expect to be cutting byrd or ward after 2 or 3 years ..and this isn’t a prove it deal like djax. we may do it cause we have the space but its not a need

  • Tom W

    I think Nate is gone. Someone will pay more than us and I’m thrilled about that.

    Time to turnover the roster not pay an upgradeable player for average play. I seriously doubt Nate offers you anything above a replacement player we cant get for a 1 yr deal

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-safeties/

    He wasn’t even good this past year …so yea may have been a good year for him but for an nfl safety it was still in the bottom 1/4 – 1/3. We can’t reward that type of play.

    stud veteran — Wolfe — rookie safety in first 4 rounds — Chunger or 1 yr deal guy who plays ST well.

    • anon

      You’d take Chung over Allen? I think Allen at least showed the ability to improve over the course of the year — given the VAST improvement over last year and even TC i’d entertain an offer if he really wanted to stay. I think he’d be better than the 7th rd pick guys that howie typically goes for. Stud, Allen, Wolf, Rookie, STmer, STmer sounds good to me. Hate to see us let Allen go for cheap and have him play well since he’s learned some fundamentals FINALLY.

      • Tom W

        No but Nate is going to take a long term deal so the comparison isn’t as simple as i like him over chung because we will have to sink 4 mil a year for 3-5 years in nate and I don’t wanna reward average players …i’d rather go young do I like nate over chung yes of course. is nate taking a one year deal for 3 mil — hell no … so i’d rather keep chung as our 3d or 4th safety ..nate ain’t coming back as a backup and I dont wanna pay a kid 4 mil a year to be a backup

        • GEAGLE

          Thank you….giving Nate 4 years after the years he put us thru is laughable….a cover safety who still let’s opponents get behind him…

          You know what Howie said the other day? As a general manager, you can have NO EGO about the guys you drafted when their contract expires….Sounds like he was talking bout Nate to me lol,

          • Tom W

            After seeing Nate’s numbers and grade for 2013 this one isn’t even close.

          • GEAGLE

            Nates a solid back up, who will get a starters contract, and I just happen to believe we are smarter then that..ATleast I hope

          • Will

            Let Nate Allen walk Foles can abuse him when we meet again…and so can McCoy for that matter…lol…

          • GEAGLE

            Oh man…didn’t even think of how much fun it must be to face him…hopefully he goes to Dallas lol

          • Will

            Carey Williams SAID IT BEST THIS DEFENSE SCARES NO ONE….Brady…Peyton…Rodgers…Brees…ect eat our Secondary for lunch

          • anon

            We said the same about a lot of fomer eagles but they end up playing pretty well. Looking at king dunlap especially.

          • GEAGLE

            That’s cuz our coaching sucked…I believe our coaching is now thorough

  • Will

    I agree with most on here go after Byrd or Ward, add to that a mid level guy many have been mentioned, Whitner, Clemons, and resign Nate Allen and add one in the draft…and have a great group to compete for the starting spots while having back ups in place…So in essence you end up Byrd, Whitner, Allen, Wolff and drafted rookie that should kill Howie’s White Whale for many years to come…..

    • cliff henny

      you want Byrd and whitner plus allen. JC, make Romo’s contract look team friendly compared to what eagles would have in safeties

      • Will

        This is a passing league and Safeties are very important to a stout Defense. Both in coverage and run support. Byrd on a 5 year deal, Whitner on a 5 year deal, Allen on a one or two year deal along with Wolff and an added rookie….

        The Eagles have invested heavy in DL, LB, and CB now is high time to solve a Defensive issue that has plagued this Defense for 5 seasons. Finally invest in the Safety group and vastly improve are Defense once and for all!

        • cliff henny

          you have any idea the type of money you’re talking about? byrd will want 45m whitner little south of that, 35m, allen is not signing a 1-2yr deal, it’s not happening, he’s getting something north of chung’s 2yr 7m, probably 3yrs 15m. so you want to sink 95m, with 25-30m in signing bonuses, destroy eagles cap, so when cox boykin foles kendricks come due, cant sign them, not to mention not being able to resign cooper or Maclin, thornton or extend kelce this yr. i like fantasy gm’g, probably more than i should, but this is little agressive even for me

          • Will

            Chung got 3 yr 10 mil if Allen wants that kind of $ let him walk…1.5 million he has been making 700k and plays like it…Keep Byrd/Whitner/Wolff if healthy and a Draft pick late or UDFA you think highly of…

          • cliff henny

            it’s a pipe dream to think eagles are getting Byrd and Whitner. you get 1 of top 5 or 6, that’s it.

          • anon

            I’d prefer a hitter over a ball hawk, we creat turnovers but can’t tackle. Hitner will be cheaper which makes him in the wheelhouse but i don’t think any safety worth his salt will actually be cheap. I wish we didn’t whiff so bad on safety last year we wouldn’t be so behind the 8 ball this year.

          • Will

            Byrd / Whitner you get a ball Hawk and a hitter…who both can cover…all around good Safeties….Then Billy D has some tools to improve the defense…Philly could have some Killer Bees back there instead of a White Whale

            Byrd/Whitner/Williams/Flecther/and Boykin…..
            ..

          • Tom W

            Are you oblivous … just saying the same ridiculous statement over and over and over again won’t change anything … no one in the league pays 4 safeties that much … and we aren’t sacrificing other positions for the sake of the least paid position on defense in the nfl and … we aren’t sacrificing our future cap space for your pipe dreams. Howie and company aren’t fools.

            byrd is getting more than 8 mil most likely 9 mil a year … whitner is getting paid north of 5.5 mil a year … you can’t have all the shiny toys …. remember when I told you we couldn’t sign 2 safeties, orapko, a starting nose tackle in one year … did you forget about that? why do you keep saying it when it has no chance in hell of happening and you are the only one who thinks its a good idea?? i

            Its not the way to build a team .. you build through the draft .. wolfe looked like he could be a starter or at least compete … thats amazing for a 5th rounder … I’d rather spend our first on a safety then have 15 million tied up in two safeties for 5 years … bad idea .. not fiscally responsible in the cap area to blow your load in free agency on a 28 and 29 year old safety who will be past their prime in 3 yrs and you still gotta pay them a shitload for 2 years past their prime

          • GEAGLE

            Lol we can’t even sign Orakpo. Because he will be overpaid

          • Richard Colton

            Well, its pretty clear we won’t sign the two top safeties in the draft. We will sign at least one FA safety – can’t be sitting there at the end of April with Chung and Wolff as the only two on the team.

          • Will

            Be nice if they could bring in two so we can move on from the Safety position for the next 5 years…Byrd/Whitner would be a great pair back there….

          • GEAGLE

            Wolff will be a starter in philly…take that to the bank, GEAGLE certified! Lol

          • Will

            okay I just went by what Wolff said…Hyper extended his knee it maybe some time off and he heals up nice….said he didn’t trust it and felt pain or something along those lines when the staff had cleared him to play refused sat on the bench..worrisome that’s all….

          • GEAGLE

            Every single Eagle who will ever play here will hyper extend his knee at some point lol…it’s not structural or ligament damage, it’s not something that requires, surgery and a year of rehab…it’s not an injury subject to re-occurring…I’d bet anything Wolff is walking around today 100% healthy

          • Will

            Do you think we have a realistic shot at signing BYRD?

            Byrd/Wolff….just need a 3rd….

          • GEAGLE

            We have 35million dollars that says we have a realistic shot of signing anyone we want…will we? If I knew, I wouldnt blog on this site every day with a knot in my stomach waiting to find out

          • cliff henny

            i have no issue with whitner, but we differ in i want ball-hawks, nfl is taking hitting out of game. want sure tacklers, watced enough of Nate whiff for 3 yrs and not get ints. which sucks, cause i loved dawkins as much as anyone. but he’d have helmet in hand alot nowadays. whitner he wants paid to. i’d just spend the extra 1.5-2m and get top guy, pair with cheap wolff. sink less money and get better play than lesser free agent and Allen. Allen is not good. wolff worst case is lateral move and 4.5m less. draft safety to compete with wolff.

          • GEAGLE

            I’d rather sign Byrd/pollard which would be cheaper and less years then a top safety and nate

          • Will

            A 1st tier and a mid level guy….at least cut ties with Allen…
            Byrd/Whitner or Byrd/Clemons….or Ward/Whitner or Ward/Clemons…you need 2 go get’em proven guys know what your getting…Draft an OLB high in 1st or 2nd…

          • cliff henny

            will, Nate is getting 3yrs 15m. chung got 2yrs/7m or 3yrs 10m contract, all same, he’s never seeing 3rd yr . safety play in nfl sucks that much. who is this mythical mid level guy that dying to sign in philly for 3 yrs/10m? cant sink 45m into byrd/ward than mid level guy gets 25m. destroy cap.

          • Will

            Well it is a solution since we keep failing to find ones in the draft…Get Byrd or Ward and add a Whitner or Clemons and be done with it for 5 years still need a reliable 3rd…Wolff may not heal then what Byrd has missed 5 games this year…

          • anon

            I like it personnel wise but i think it’ll lead to a lot of cap gymnastics down the road. I understand paying for quality instead of cheaping and getting ok stuff, but think that’s really tough with the salary cap and howie is expressly trying not to go that route.

          • Will

            Yeah be luckily to get a 2nd tier player…to add to the mix…

          • Will

            Seattle has a stout Defense part of that is a very strong secondary makes for a great defense…

          • cliff henny

            they drafted it, didnt buy it out in open market

          • Will

            we had our chances to draft a great safety for years but took a graham and passed on others .Eagles do not use 1st Round picks on Safety…they just don’t…2nd think jarrett wasted pick, allen as well wouldn’t know a great safety if they fell over one…

          • anon

            Also terrible coaching / scheme.

          • GEAGLE

            Howie only gets to pick from players that Tom gamble has approved and funneled over to Howie to look at. Gamble has literally nothing to do with any safety drafted besides Wolff, and last I checked gamble came from a place that drafted two safeties that will go on to sign for more then 35million each(Goldson,HITner)
            ….
            Safety position also has become much more important then it was when we didn’t spend first rounders on safties

          • Will

            Yeah that’s so true Tom Gamble has a eye for talent forgot about his input and so glad he choose to stay here…maybe they go Byrd/Allen in the end…

          • GEAGLE

            I can even see Nate getting 20million which is absurd to think of if you ask me

      • anon

        I think we’d likely go after a Whitner, keep allen and take someone in the draft or a ST guy that can compete for a roster spot assuming chung is gone. I think Roc Carmichael might have played his last snap as an eagle. Not great in coverage, not great on ST, i think we upgrade if we can.

        • cliff henny

          see below, rob has post on same idea. i dont get whitner/allen vs byrd or ward/wolff. think that’s a more expensive less talented combination.

    • Tom W

      way too much tied up in safety . 9 mil a year; 5-6 mil a year; 4 mil a year; 500k a year .. plus mil we owe chunger

      and spend a draft round pick on a safety??? Dunno if Chip even wants to keep 5 safeties if we have a stud at one of the spots

      • Will

        Five to compete in camp…keep 4 (pick btw Wolff and new kid)…8 million for Byrd, 5.5 million for Whitner, 1.5 million or 3 million for 2 years for Allen….500k for Wolff and a late rd or UDFA Rookie…you could work it so it’s not a big cap hit with bonuses and guarantee money….Either you want a White Whale Killer or not….or you can try and ignore it another year and half ass it again….

        • Tom W

          Byrd is getting more than 8 … nate is going to get paid alot than 1.5 a yr are you kidding me .. he is at least getting 3 mil a year — what chung got last year — and it wont be us .. and you still have chung owed a mil guaranteed

          Why in the world do you think Howie is going to spend 15 million on two guys to plays safety?? that basically takes the advantage we have in foles getting nothing completely way on two safeties? and whitner isn’t even elite?

          Thats too much for one position — a non premium position at that

          we dont need two high paid safeties

          • Will

            with that attitude no wonder we have weak safeties for the last 5 years….and to think 2 of the 11 players in a team sport is not important is just ignorant on your part …it takes teamwork btw LB’s, CB’s and Safeties to have a stout Secondary….and like any chain you are only as strong as your weakest link which has been the Safety play for 5 seasons….Howie crys he can';t find good Safeties Byrd/Ward/Whitner/Clemons are 4 good ones go sign 2 …..

          • Tom W

            we have weak safeties bc we have no pass rush and bc fat andy screwed up 2 second round picks …

            Too think safety is as important as say qb or edge pass rusher is crazy

            And to overpay absurdly at 2 non-premium positions is going to hurt you somewhere else .. not the way you build a team.

            There is a reason safety is by far the least paid position on defense

            Your fantasy salaries are wishful thinking .. not reality

            And your dual stud safety signings is also extremely unlikely …wolfe showed well when he started … why wouldn’t we give that kid an opportunity to compete for a spot to start

          • Will

            Wolff has a bad knee already did we forget about Allen’s knee so fast…. Safeties need great knees, great shoulders, great tacklers for run support, and speed , and have coverage skills….not exactly the responsibility you regulate to sub-par players…then again you need a Great Defense if you want to go deep into the play offs…why has it been since 2004 we were in a Super Bowl….will the Eagles ever learn…and for a rusher OLB our #22 pick or trade Graham for Dion Jordan would help along with 2 great Safeties you need all 3 not one or the other….maybe a NT but that might be fixed with Logan gaining some more weight…

          • GEAGLE

            Stop with the bad knee BS please….he didn’t tear ligaments, he isn’t having surgery and a year of rehab..he sprained his knee..lNEWSFLASH: every player on our roster will sprain a knee at some point in Their career…this knee injury problem is complete bulls***

          • cliff henny

            he’s off his rocker. byrd turned down 8m. whitner is getting 7m, bet nate gets 4m maybe close to 5m.

          • GEAGLE

            Nate will sign for ATleast 20million dollars..I expect us to be able to get more bang for our buck if we spending 20million..
            ,..
            Much rather give coop 20

          • cliff henny

            yeah, these convo’s are tough, some talk contract vs actual guarenteed. i could see nate getting 4/18m which is more like a 3/12-14m

          • Clamdigger

            “Premium position” is such a ridiculous term. So when a TE scampers past your garbage safety and in to the end zone, at least it wasn’t a Premium TD.

      • Will

        There in lies the problem paying 600,000-700,000 k a year for two very important positions on defense….

  • Chris Jones

    I don’t understand why our organization continues to go the cheap route I know the dream team thing was aweful but you shouldn’t be scared to sign garunteed starters. It’s because this team drafted mid level last year that they got guys like Patrick Chung ad Kenny Phillips. Pick up Byrd or ward in FA then draft a corner and safety. Nate Allen is peaked I don’t want to see him or Chung back in philly next year.

  • GEAGLE

    Why did pardon the interruption just go to a commercial saying “we have a Chip Kelly update, get your smoothies ready??”
    ..
    What Chip news am I missing?

    • Will

      Eagles lost a Assistant DL coach to Oregon…last new news I’ve heard keep me posted…

      • GEAGLE

        Serious?

        • Will

          Coach of the Year Honors maybe,,,,

          • GEAGLE

            Booooo! It’s just his anniversary of coming to the eagles??what a waste

          • Will

            Eagles assistant DL coach headed to Oregon. Erik Chinander has been named outside linebackers coach at the University of Oregon. The 34-year-old Iowa native served as assistant defensive line coach for the Philadelphia Eagles during the 2013 season following three years as an intern (2010) and graduate assistant (2011-12) for the Ducks under former head coach Chip Kelly. (image courtesy ofPhiladelphiaEagles.com) per BGN….http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=209373485

          • GEAGLE

            You had me scrambling to make sure we didn’t lose coach AZZ, I was about to feint lol…didn’t see you wrote Assistant

          • Will

            Key word being assistant…lol…fixed link….

          • Will

            Hope Howie made a New Year’s resolution to kill his White Whale…Think Byrd/Whitner….Ward has shoulder issues…Byrd foot….should be okay…

          • GEAGLE

            Howie doesn’t play Madden

          • Will

            yeah I know to much dollar make everybody holler just sick of beating a dead dead horse for 5 years now…sick of it wished they fix it once and for all….need to switch to a 3-4…for years…then got the LB’s…got two good CB’s now fix the damm Safety spots!!!!! let me stop before I go full retard…lol…

          • GEAGLE

            I’m worried enough about us not ponying up for Bryd or Ward which will make me cry

          • Will

            you know Ward battled thru shoulder issues this last season..thinking Chung type injury not good for a Safety especially one for high dollar…prefer Byrd……

    • Richard Colton

      was just thinking the same thing. The Maxwell award maybe? or birthday? or one year anniversary of job?

      • GEAGLE

        Is that national news? Isn’t the maxwell club just a philly thing? I remember going to one of those maxwell dinners as a high school athlete

        It’s just the anniversary of him leaving duck nest for eagle nest…whack

        • Richard Colton

          yeah. but what a year. what’s that tingling sensation? it’s a hope flavored smoothie.

          • GEAGLE

            What really give me hope is Chip thinks he can build a roster so good, and keep it together, to where he expects to eventually not have much roster space for draft picks(he said that lol)..if he pulls THAT off, I’m buying season tickets to the Super Bowl parade

  • GEAGLE

    Cliff, rumors are starting to swirl:
    ..
    ET and Hawes to the Thunder for both their first round picks and perry Jones III(liberty BALLERS)

  • Tiburon

    Sign Byrd, draft Calvin Pryor from Louisville. Profit. That combo shores up the secondary instantly and stops the crossing routes across the middle. Let Fletcher/Williams/Boykin do their CB thing and deep is all taken care of. See if there’s some money for Allen to be the #3 safety/insurance and if not, Wolff takes that spot.

    I loved Pryor’s scouting report:

    Cons: “May be fined/suspended frequently in NFL for his ferocious hitting style.” If he’s there at 22, I take him with absolutely no reservations.

    • Will

      FS Calvin Pryor, Louisville- Scouting Report…..

      A junior entry into the 2014 NFL draft, familiarize yourself with Calvin Pryor before the bandwagon gets full.

      Pryor has range for days, showing the cut-and-explode ability to turn and attack the ball in flight. Pryor (6’2″, 208 pounds) also has the size to come up inside the box and take on the run. What impresses me most, though, is his all-areas ability to attack the ball. As a zone-coverage safety—taking deep thirds or halves—his speed and instincts will be a major asset.

      Pryor has the ability to start from his first day as a pro safety.

      http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9805088

    • Will

      Cavin Pryor- Now that’s a complete Safety and and a wicked hitter…everything you do not see in Nate Allen’s game…

      http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9805088

  • John J. King

    Jeremy Maclin, Riley Cooper, Nate Allen, Donnie Jones, and Clifton Geathers will be signed. The others will be replaced. Allen improved because he went un-injured and – finally – got some pro level coaching. it showed in his play and as he gained confidence, he got better. He will only improve if he can stay healthy.