All-22: The Education Of Nick Foles

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On Tuesday afternoon, Nick Foles stood behind the podium at the NovaCare Complex and was asked what it’s like.

What it’s like to throw for 428 yards, complete 62.5 percent of your passes and be labeled as inconsistent by many observers, including your own head coach.


"I agree with it," Foles said. "We didn’t win. I missed some throws that didn’t give us an opportunity to win. And I’m a firm believer that as an offense we have to score more points than the other team no matter how many points they score. And I didn’t put us in a good position."

Foles has now started 14 career games, two short of a full season. But as the quarterback, he sets the tone for accountability when things don't go well. And he's consistently accepted responsibility regardless of his individual performance.

Despite the 30-point, 475-yard output against Minnesota, the truth is Foles and the offense left too many plays on the field. With the Bears and Cowboys coming up, there's a pretty good chance the offense will have to put the team on its back if it wants to play in the postseason.

And that starts with the quarterback. So let's go back and take a look at some of the things Foles showed against the Vikings - both good and bad.

***

Foles has played 575 snaps and turned the ball over just three times (two interceptions, one fumble). The INT against Minnesota really wasn't a big deal. When you throw the ball 48 times, chances are you're going to get picked off once.

But in a read-offense especially, decision-making is more than just taking care of the football. The 4th-and-1 call where Foles threw the illegal block on the double-reverse has been a popular topic of discussion this week. But in reality, the Eagles should have never been in that spot.

On 3rd-and-1, they ran one of their most popular packaged plays: stacked receivers to either side with the inside zone read. Foles can hand it off, pull it and run or throw a screen to one of two receivers. There are four options in one play.

Right defensive end Jared Allen is left unblocked.

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In past weeks, the edge defender has been crashing down on LeSean McCoy pretty consistently. But here Allen slow-plays it. He puts himself in position where he can tackle McCoy if the running back dances at all behind the line of scrimmage. But he doesn't commit totally and can still make a play on Foles if he keeps it.

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"He played it well," Foles said. "He sort of came down the line, just sort of stopped, and I pulled it because I thought he would more likely go for the running back as [opposed to] me running.

"But he stayed on me. I guess he was scared [of me running]," Foles joked. "He played it well."

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"Sometimes, the defensive ends were crashing on the running back and it left it open for Nick," Chip Kelly said. "But in a critical third-down situation, they didn't.

"If we had just handed off, we would have got it, and that put us in the fourth-down situation where we ended up going for it again."

Added Foles: "Maybe next time I’ll try to hand it off and go right at him to where Shady can get a couple more yards and keep that thing alive. It was just a bad read by me to be honest."

***

When asked to characterize Foles' performance as a passer, Kelly said: "I think Nick was inconsistent compared to where he had been in the last five games. That's something that we've got to get in the film room with him and see what he is seeing. We've got to get a chance to see him. There was a thought process where we had guys open, but weren't 100 percent accurate with the ball."

Accuracy is sometimes tough to gauge because it can be there one snap and  gone the next.

All game long (and all season long), the Eagles have done a great job of getting DeSean Jackson in favorable matchups. On this third-quarter play, they motion him inside and stack him behind Riley Cooper. The Vikings are in man coverage, but have linebacker Audie Cole patrolling the middle of the field as a help defender.

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Cornerback Marcus Sherels is playing 7 yards off the line of scrimmage. Jackson runs a shallow cross, and Sherels has to get around traffic in the middle of the field to stay with him.

That leaves Cole (a linebacker) essentially trying to track Jackson.

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Lane Johnson gives up some pressure on Foles' back side, but he still is able to get rid of the ball cleanly.

The problem?

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Foles' throw is behind Jackson. What should have been a big catch and run ended up being an incompletion.

"Sometimes you just miss ‘em," Foles said. "I wish I could say I’d be perfect every time, but that’s not reality and I missed a few. I was a little high on a few, but you can count on me to bounce back and I’m gonna deliver a strike somewhere and I’m gonna keep fighting through it."

That was true in this game. Foles was far from perfect. And his accuracy was not as good as we've seen throughout the season. But he did make some big-time throws, specifically when the Eagles cut the lead to 27-22.

Foles went to Jackson 16 times in the game. Later in the third quarter, he found his No. 1 receiver on a deep out.

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The corner is draped on Jackson by the time the ball arrives, but Jackson does a good job of going up to get it. Foles does not have a cannon, but he can still be successful on passes like this if he throws with accuracy and anticipation.

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***

Kelly talks a lot about situational football: knowing when to take a risk and when to be cautious.

With the Eagles trailing 17-9 at the start of the third quarter, Foles connected with McCoy for a 6-yard gain on first down. But on second down, he had trouble finding a receiver.

Let's pick it up mid-play.

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The Vikings only rush four. They're in man coverage with two help defenders. Foles has nowhere to go with the ball.

He buys time and escapes to his left, but the only receivers to that side of the field are Jackson, who is covered, and McCoy, who assumes Foles wants to scramble and tries to lure his defender out of bounds to create space.

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At this point, Foles has to either tuck it and run or throw it away. Instead, he holds the ball for more than six seconds and takes the sack.

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"The first one was a completion for six and we’re in a 2nd-and-4," Kelly explained. "If we can just throw it away on the next down and not take a sack, then we're in 3rd-and-4, and we’re in a workable third-down situation. Those are things we need to continue to work on as an offense and understand playing situational football."

***

One of the positives to take away from Foles' performance is that he continues to be willing to stand in the pocket, take a hit and deliver even when protection breaks down.

In the second, the Vikings send six and find themselves with an unblocked rusher in Cole.

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It looks like McCoy is probably supposed to pick Cole up, but when he notices the linebacker blitzing the B-Gap on the opposite side, it's too late.

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Foles shuffles to his right, gets crushed, but connects with Jackson.

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Not a check-down either. Foles hits Jackson on a 16-yard comeback route near the sideline.

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"You’ve gotta move in the pocket, see the D-Line and everything like that," Foles said. "But that’s one of those things I’ll just continue to work on, and if a guy’s coming through and I’ve got to step into it and take the shot, I just really gotta step into it and throw an accurate ball."

***

Foles is accountable after every game. If the Eagles' defense sputters down the stretch, they'll need him and the offense to be crisper than they were against Minnesota.

The Bears' and Cowboys' defenses rank 22nd and 31st, respectively. One way or another, we'll continue to learn more about Foles in the final two games.

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  • GumboGumbo

    “Sometimes you just miss ‘em,” Foles said. “I wish I could say I’d be perfect every time, but that’s not reality and I missed a few. I was a little high on a few, but you can count on me to bounce back and I’m gonna deliver a strike somewhere and I’m gonna keep fighting through it.”
    Nick has set the bar pretty high this year and our fan base has come to expect greatness from him. Personally I’m happy the bar has been set so high because hoping for anything other than greatness from your team is not what Eagles fans are about. GO BIRDS!

    • EaglePete

      Gotta love the humility, that goes a long way in my book. Shows hes constantly willing to keep learning and growing and that cant be said for a lot of QBs once they have some success. You can tell how humble he is that it will never become an issue.

      • G_WallyHunter

        He’s like a Celek at QB lolol
        I love that his faith is responsible for a lot of those intangibles that you mention. Plain and simple. He loves the lord and saviour.
        I support the hell out of that as an atheist.

        • EaglePete

          I 2nd that as an atheist.

    • theycallmerob

      2 downvotes? See, there are those who hope for something other than greatness. Incredible.

      • Andy124

        Boo greatness! Greatness sucks! I hold my quarterbacks to a higher standard. I demand Vickness out of them!

      • GumboGumbo

        They can’t down vote me while I’m in section 215 Sunday night screaming my head off. You gonna be there Rob?

        • theycallmerob

          Kelly green with envy!
          This year was an anomaly for me; KC was my first linc game ever. The better half got me tix to the ARI game for xmas; it was almost this one instead.
          Alas, I’ll have to watch it in high def with cheap beer :)

          Have a blast! Don’t forget the “check-down” chant!

  • Rick H

    We will continue to learn about Foles well into his 20th season! Then and only then can we make a sound definitive final decision on him before we/Eagles decide “if” Foles is the Eagles franchise QB! Ha ha…

    • Brandon Boykin, OLB

      I thought Chip said that would be a “thousand years…”

  • theycallmerob

    You keep getting better at this, Sheil. The stills work better than the .gif pics
    The plays above each captured a different component to the sum loss- how the MIN defense played the read option, missed throws, coverage sacks, and pocket awareness. The penalties proved costly as well.
    Even with flaws, Foles brings a lot to the table for a young guy. Those throws you pointed out (the pressured comeback and deep out) are NFL throws. Consistency comes through film study and games.
    Unfortunately, the good things our offense did could not overcome the missed opportunities. And most of all, they couldn’t keep up with a Throwback Cassel shredding apart our D.

    • Richard Colton

      He didn’t play a great game, but there was a lot to like. When you throw for 400+ and there’s room for improvement, it says a lot about your potential as a 2nd year player. Anyone who watched Sunday and came away thinking Foles lost the game for the Eagles is lying to himself.

      • Bdawkbdawk

        In 2009 Kevin Koldb threw for 391 yards in a losing effort to the Saints. It was his 8th game as a starter and he had lots of room for improvement. I guess he showed a ton of potential. Or maybe a QBs yardage totals don’t mean that much when one is playing catch up.

        Foles is a good QB with a high ceiling. Sunday he didn’t play well enough for us to win. We could see it on the tape. He said it and Chip said it.
        ..
        I wish you could see it. Unfortunately, the only thing you seem able to see is the box score. Too bad.

        • theycallmerob

          What does Kevin Kolb have to do with Foles last week? The two are apples and oranges.
          Why do you keep saying things like “wish you could see it”. See what? Did you not read the article? I’m pretty sure every person on here has started their comment with “He didn’t play well, but…”

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Kevin Kolb has nothing to do with Nick Foles this week. Nothing. I used Kolb’s stats to illustrate the sheer stupidity of Colton’s statement about yardage speaking to a QBs’s potential. Foles’ 420+ yards and Kolbs 390+ yards means next to nothing.

            I said “wish you could see it” because literally the only thing some people are saying is he didn’t play great, BUT check out how many yards and touchdowns he threw. My entire argument is that simply reading a boxscore is a very poor way to evaluate Foles (or many QBs for that matter). Especially because nearly all of Chip’s QBs wind up with great numbers. For some reason, people seem to disagree with me.

          • theycallmerob

            My entire argument is that simply reading a boxscore is a very poor way to evaluate Foles (or many QBs for that matter).

            maybe I’m mistaken, but that’s the first time I’ve seen you state that so clearly today.
            I don’t think that is what many folks were arguing; the stats merely came into play (if I remember correctly) on Monday when someone said Foles played downright bad, or that he was the root cause of the L.
            I think we all saw a lot left on the field; but they weren’t egregious mistakes or physical deficits. Consistency and accuracy, particularly when it comes to reading defenses, can only improve through experience.

            Foles is now at the stage where coordinators are game-planning to his strengths/weaknesses. It is his ability to adapt that will determine his future as a good-to-great starter in the league, or whether he washes out. I think in this game, some of his struggles were due to MIN’s scheme and execution. Sure they missed talent, and of course he had bad throws. But all that said and 400 yds? Not a terrible day at the office.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            I thought I stated that previously, but its very possible that I wasn’t being clear enough. I don’t want to rehash everything I’ve written about Foles and the game, but I agree with almost everything you are saying.

            I think I came away from the game feeling similiarly to you, but slightly more negative, because I thought we had a pretty solid matchup. The sacks, while probably not all Foles’ fault were very frustrating.

            I also objected to people saying that Foles played well enough to win the game. I think it’s a pretty silly comment to make when there were plays left on the table, which if made, could have stolen the game for the Eagles. Thus I certainly didn’t think Foles lost us the game, but I didn’t think he did enough to win us the game either (seeing as we didn’t win).

            I appreciate your candid and reflective post. One of the reasons I was being so vociferous yesterday is because I thought posters were spending too much time self-congratulating each other and making fun of “vick supporters,” to carefully respond to contrary views about Foles.

          • Adam

            I also objected to people saying that Foles played well enough to win the game.

            Key word is “well enough”. Everyone and their dog could see that Foles didn’t play a great game. The Eagles defense was coming off an amazing stretch of 9 games where they held teams to 21 points or less. We were coming up against an offense that average about 23 points per game prior to this, not to mention missing arguably their best offensive player, their next best running back, and coming in with their backup QB. 30 points would have been “well enough” to win this game if our defense performed to expectations and not far, far, far below.

            I think it’s a pretty silly comment to make when there were plays left on the table, which if made, could have stolen the game for the Eagles.

            If anyone said Foles had a great game, then this would be accurate. But based on what I said above, I don’t think there’s anything silly about that comment.

            Thus I certainly didn’t think Foles lost us the game, but I didn’t think he did enough to win us the game either (seeing as we didn’t win).

            Foles is 24 in his 15th start. While he didn’t look sharp in any definition of the word, a 2nd year QB with that many starts under his belt putting up 30 points in what we deem as a bad performance is something some of us see as optimistic. When you have an inexperienced QB sometimes your defense needs to help him out, and this time out Billy Davis and co. did nothing to do that.

            Would it be nice if we could put the entire game on Foles shoulders and expect him to put up 50+ points to win us this game? Yes, sure. And looking at the film, he very well may have with a few better throws. But let’s not sit here and pretend that maybe the defense forcing a punt once or twice before the 3rd quarter wouldn’t have allowed Foles and Chip to play a more balanced game, running the ball more and not playing catch up the entire time.

            I thought posters were spending too much time self-congratulating each other and making fun of “vick supporters,” to carefully respond to contrary views about Foles.

            If you had to deal with these “vick supporters” week in and week out, absolutely licking their chops waiting for Foles to falter for them to pounce on him, then you would realize that there is very little room for thoughtful discussion backed up with reason and statistical evidence. If these people were actually here to critique Foles performances in a constructive manner, then I would welcome it. But to pretend most of these guys just came out of the woodwork for their chance to sh!t on Nick because he isn’t MV7, well then that would be something I would call silly.

          • Andy124

            Exactly. Somebody show the winning percentage of teams that put up 30 points. If you put up a number of points that is going to win 70% of the time, I’d call that good enough to win by far.

            There’s only 1 team that’s putting over 30 points per game on the board (Denver). The next closest is us at 26.0 ppg. That means we put up 15% over our average output, and way over the league average. Seeing as we’ve been winning a lot, I’d call that good enough to win.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            I’m sure you and Adam are correct and the winning percentage is very high. But don’t you see the irony in putting this loss on the defense, while simultaneously maintaining that Foles’ production in the loss speaks to his talent and promise? Don’t you think that’s just a bit Eagles centric? If you were a Vikings fan, you could just as easily be saying that Foles played average to mediocre and that his production was because the Vikings defense played badly and that the D played loose coverage because of the lead.

            This is precisely how we spoke when the Redskins’ came back twice on us, but still lost. We talked about how poorly RG3 played and his numbers were not a display of his “promise” or any other mushy BS.

            I think Foles is a good QB. I have said this many times. But just take a second to think about what type of support your using to justify these claims. If it’s simply his stats, which for many it is, you are using bad support.

          • Andy124

            If you were a Vikings fan, you could just as easily be saying that Foles played average to mediocre

            But that’s exactly what we are saying. Ok, I’m a little more optimistic than most and have called it “pretty good” which isn’t exactly a huge compliment. But I’ve always qualified that by saying I wouldn’t argue with “ok to mediocre”. The argument is with the, “bad”, “aweful”, “not good enough to win” and “really poor” labels.

            And to say you can’t use his statistics to support your argument is simply wrong. I’ve said this a million times, they do not tell the whole story, they can mislead, but they will not outright lie. A performance can be somewhat better or worse than the numbers, but there’s only “so much” deviation that is reasonable. Not a single poster has claimed that Nick played every bit as well as his numbers suggest. But to claim they outright lie, that he put up great numbers while playing downright poorly is to put far more stock in your own eyes than they deserve, far too much emphasis on the mistakes and far too little emphasis on the good plays he did make.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Ultimately, it seems as if we agree on your first two paragraphs.

            I believe that’s what you might be saying, but this “We” you speak of has been saying very different things. If you look a few comments above, you will see 400+ yards = good potential.

            When I wrote “simply” his stats. I meant it as people exclusively using his stats. Surely stats can misrepresent, but they aren’t lies. From the beginning i’ve tried to contextualize these stats only to be rebuked by Colton who has done nothing but, accuse me of having an agenda, and copy-and-paste 400+ yards. No analysis, no discussion of the Viking’s D, or of the type of throws Foles made. This has been going on for 3 days and is, quite simply, aggrevating.

          • Andy124

            I think that’s because saying good potential is not the same as saying it was a good game. In fact, in context, the concession of not a good game was implied.

            Using the starting point that the stats won’t lie, if you have an off game and still put up Nick’s stats, that’s just cause for optimism.

          • Andy124

            In fact, in context, the concession of not a good game was implied.

            Correction #2. It wasn’t implied, it was explicit.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Your correction is unfounded. I don’t mean to quibble over small details, but the comment I responded to said “he didn’t play a great game, but.” “Not a great game”, does not preclude a very good game. I do not think that Foles had a good or very good game.
            Furthermore the tenor of the original post suggested that he didn’t take anything before the “but” very seriously

          • Andy124

            I responded to said “he didn’t play a great game, but.” “Not a great game”, does not preclude a very good game.
            Point granted. It also doesn’t preclude “bad game”.

            Furthermore the tenor of the original post suggested that he didn’t take anything before the “but” very seriously
            Not in the least. Especially with the reiteration of “a lot of room for improvement”. More like he wanted to emphasize the positive. Sounds to me like the little spat is coloring your perceptions, causing you to read his posts in the worst light you can.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            I don’t think I’m letting this color my perceptions. I’m definitely not giving it a charitable reading, but I don’t think I’m twisting his words or thoughts. I mean, 3 days ago on Sheil’s write up of the offense, he posted that this was the 7th best passing performance in Eagles history. I disagree with that interpretation, and I’ve tried to explain why.

            Regardless, I appreciate you engaging with me on some of these point.

          • Adam

            I think you’re fighting shadows now Bdawk. You think Foles is a good QB but he played an average to mediocre. That’s absolutely 100% what we’ve been saying the entire time.

            The Minny defense played badly because they aren’t a good defense. There were so many yards left on the field and that’s been acknowledged in this post by Sheil and anyone who watched the game. They never let up because they had the lead because up until the 2nd last drive, they never had command of that game. It wasn’t like they were playing tight defense all game and got relaxed, it was just missed plays.

            What we think of RG3 compared to Foles is a different argument all together. RG3 has been the anointed savior and they emptied their coffers to get him there. Foles was a third round pick who we are still evaluating whether or not he’s going to be our guy or not.

            I think how absolutely horrid the defense played is really being understated. While Foles played, as you say “averaged to mediocre”, but the defensive performance was putrid to embarrassing. We didn’t force a punt until the 3rd quarter. The 3rd friggin’ quarter. That’s unacceptable. Against a backup QB and 3rd string no name running back. If you look at guy like Russell Wilson, his defense affords him the opportunity to play a average to mediocre game but still win. He can pass for 200 yards and 1 TD/1 INT and still win. There’s absolutely no reason why the Eagles D shouldn’t have held the Minny O to less than 30.

            They didn’t, and Foles didn’t play well, so we lost the game. That’s really all there is to it. It’s a learning experience for him and the team I think it’s something he’s going to grow because of.

          • Andy124

            The next closest is us at 26.0 ppg.
            Note: The bold text is incorrect. I had the wrong sort applied.

          • aub32

            You are dismissing Foles part in the defense being so bad. Can Foles play safety? No. However, as the QB he can most certainly help the defense by sustaining drives. We saw just a couple examples in this post where Foles made a mistake that led to us giving the ball back to Minne. If Foles is able to at the very least make a few 1st down, then the defense isn’t in such a bad spot. Foles did not play well enough to win because we did not win. This isn’t a case like the Dallas v. Denver game where Romo was flawless and made one mistake at the end. Foles was inconsistent all game long. His missed way too many play for him not to accept almost as much blame as the defense.

          • bill

            I was kinda with you until the last sentence – that’s just ridiculous. It’s also important to note that when Foles has a bad game, it’s not a multiple interception game and fumble game. That’s what really sinks defenses. But certainly, Foles’s inability to do anything useful in the first half hurt the defense; it’s equivalent to McNabb’s choke job in the playoffs against AZ a few years ago. They both made plays for a while in the games, but ultimately didn’t execute enough for the entire 60 minutes.

          • #7

            I would say that you’re very accurate with your post myself.

          • Drew Brees Mom

            The only way Foles played well enough to win the game is if the defence holds The Vikes to 29 or less. It’s a team sport, if one unit is falling short then the needs to step up. Our offence could have scored 49, but they didn’t.

          • Adam

            If we were playing the Broncos, you might have a good point here. But we were playing a bad offense made even worse without their best player. 48 is ridiculous and inexcusable.

          • Andy124

            You’re too kind. It’s broken logic regardless of who we’re playing. Semantically, there are two valid interpretations of “The QB played well enough to win”.
            1) If they won, the QB played well enough to win. If they lost, the QB didn’t.
            2) Given an averageexpectedreasonable level of performance by the rest of the team and the opponent, factor in actual performance by the QB, and his team would have won.

            Definition 1, while a valid interpretation of the phrase, renders the phrase completley meaningless, and does not reflect an evaluation of a single player, but of the outcome of the game.
            By Definition 2, Nick played well enough to win.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Semantically that is not the case. You’re excluding several interpretations in the middle.

            For example, if the Eagles had lost by <6 after Foles drove down the field and Desean inexplicably fumbled on the 1 yard line, I think we could all agree that Foles played well enough to win.

            As it stands, Foles made several good to great plays when the Eagles mounted their comeback, but we never got close enough to catch up. No one on the offense made substantial mistakes (fumbles, dropped passes, repeated missed protections). And Foles certainly left a lot of plays on the field. Lawler catalogues them pretty well on his site. And Chip and Foles both admit that if Foles had just made a couple more of those plays, we could have won.

            Thus I arrive at the conclusion that Foles, while playing ok, did not play well enough to win the game for us. He didn't lose it for us, he just didn't do enough to win. This opinion does not conform to your two interpretations.
            ….

          • Andy124

            You’re excluding several interpretations in the middle.
            Such as?

            For example, if the Eagles had lost by <6 after Foles drove down the field and Desean inexplicably fumbled on the 1 yard line, I think we could all agree that Foles played well enough to win.
            This is an example, not a definition. So I’d like to see a definition which accounts for this scenario. Because the way you lay it out, the Eagles could lose 3-0, but Foles did enough to win because we would have won if not for DeSean.

            This past Sunday, with a reasonable performance by the D, 30 points would have been good enough to win. Thus, Foles was good enough to win.

          • Richard Colton

            If only SOMEONE would break down the All-22s. Then we could see if the stats are empty or if the kid is making NFL thows. Foles and Kolb huh? pretty clear what your agenda is.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            You are too stupid to insult.

          • Richard Colton

            It’s “your to stupid” dummy

          • Andy124

            There should be a comma before dummy, Mr. Colton.

          • Richard Colton

            stop being a grammer Nazi

          • Andy124

            stop being a hypogriff.

          • aub32

            Why do you think everyone has an agenda just because they don’t agree with you. The comparison had some relevance, and it’s your right to disgree, but I think it’s petty to just dismiss someone’s opinion by saying they have an agenda. If the comparison is so wrong, why not just enlighten him.

          • Richard Colton

            Im not engaging. he’s still butt-hurt about something he got wrong two days ago. Scroll up Aub, and look at his response to Rob.

            But since YOU asked. What do we have other than stats to compare two players? The “eye-test?” I agree that some stats can be misleading. We had this debate decades ago when Walsh’s West Coast Offense debuted. Yards and completion % aren’t the best ways to compare players. A more honest way to do it is yards-per-attempt, QBR, passer rating. Foles looks pretty good there too.

            I’ll admit, I’m not Geagle. I’m late to the Foles bandwagon. Was very skeptical, as you know. But how can you look at what he’s done this season and not be impressed? You’d have to be a Vick-licker or contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

          • aub32

            Impressive yes. I just don’t see the need for insults. Also, as you know I am still skeptical of Foles, and I can assure you I have no agenda. Even if Foles is not the guy I wouldn’t want Vick. I am a huge fan of Vick. I thought he could be great in this system. He was doing special things as well as protecting himself and the ball much better. However, he still got hurt, and that’s something we can’t have. Foles has done excellent in his debut, and I do not question whether or not he is a starting QB in this league. I question is he the best option and can we win the big one with him.

          • Richard Colton

            Hey big guy – who defended you when you tried the world’s biggest troll-post 3 days ago?

            I had Foles at 5% in August (meaning a 1-in-20 chance he could become an elite QB) – which was enough to want to see him win the QB competition. At this point, I’m 85%. Still room for skepticism. At the same time, its more than enough for hope. Foles becoming a franchise QB would be the best thing to happen to this team since the drafting of McNabb. The arrow would tick North for the first time since ’04.

        • morgan c

          Whoa whoa whoa. That was Kolb’s second game as a starter first of all. And if you are insinuating similarities, I have to disagree strongly. Kolb was scared and only could throw the ball with all day. Foles has already shown he can stay in the pocket and stare down a rush. But beyond that, we really can’t compare the two. Foles at this point has played almost a full season of games, and has pro bowl numbers. I’m not saying Foles is a sure-fire future perennial pro bowler, but damn, dude is way better than Kolb ever showed.

          • #7

            People weren’t saying that about Kolb then as far as him being scared. I didn’t really notice it that much until 2010 week 1 vs GB. It was obvious then. Up until that time, the majority of the fanbase wanted McNabb gone and really believed Kolb was a franchise QB

          • aub32

            I agree with you that Foles has more guts than Kolb. However, I am not sure we can say he is way better than Kolb. This system seems to be even more QB friendly than anything Reid was doing. Foles has played very well, but he’s a new QB in a new system. That means one of two things can happen. He could certainly turn out to be the franchise guy that gets even better after another year in the system. That would be fantastic fo any Eagles’ fan. However, I think too many people refuse to even acknowledge the alternative, which is that defenses will get an entire offseason to prepare for Foles and this offense. We saw Foles struggle mightily in Dallas. He was very off Sunday. We don’t know why, but you can be assured teams will try and find out. I, like every Eagles’ fan, am hoping for the former while I understand the latter is still a possiblity.

      • GEAGLE

        Yup yup…had FOles been ON, he woulda threw for 550 yards on Sunday…

      • Dustan M. Howell

        Matt Cassel threw for just under 400. Flynn threw for a lot of Yardage against the Cowboys. Throwing for 400+ is good, but it’s nothing to hoot and holler about in today’s NFL unless you’re doing it every other game. Also, 233 of Foles’s 423 yards came from yards gained after the catch. We lost because of the defense,but Foles showed inaccuracy, indecisiveness, and immobility. He lacks armstrength. He’s not particularly accurate. He holds onto the ball too long, and he’s immobile.

        • EaglePete

          Sure but thats where the “team” comes into play. Wilson can throw for 230 1 td and 1 int and still win because of their defense and everyone swoons so its all relative. Foles has shown, through a bunch of games, a ton of positives at such a young stage of his career. Its when they put together a string of stinkers with the losses that you really start to question. Im not there yet, its all gravy still at this point. That being said, I still think a starting QB needs about 3 yrs as a starter to get an idea of consistency. Tons of examples of good players having off and on years and again, thats where a team helps along with good coaching/scheme.

          • southy

            Sure. Consistency. And then there’s Eli. There are times when I watch him, and the knowledge that that guy has 2 rings makes me want to shove a pencil in my eye.

          • anon

            You’re seeing the importance of a healthy o-line.

        • theycallmerob

          So he’s inaccurate, indecisive, immobile, weak, inaccurate, indecisive, and immobile. Got it.
          All that from this game? What a scholar

          • G_WallyHunter

            Foles showed inaccuracy and he’s not particularly accurate. Also, against the Vikings, he showed immobility and he’s immobile.
            Pretty simple and very clear

          • anon

            Dustin has points but they are overstated, he has those issues but hopefully it’s more to do with being a young QB than anything else. He’s had these issues in the last few games, he def didn’t lose the game, but we couldn’t keep up in a shootout. All things to work on. I don’t think you can be unhappy about Foles’ play, it’s a little inconsistent but he’s not LOSING us games, which is important.

            That said the offense is the product of CK’s scheme more than it’s a product of Floes being Manning / Brady. Good news is that i think Foles is smart enough to understand Kelly’s system, which is why he’s good at making the proper reads. I think that’s his best attribute and why CK likes him (brain over braun).

          • theycallmerob

            all fair points.

          • anon

            Might be first time we agreed all day!

          • theycallmerob

            eh, its the internet- the greatest trove of opinions out there.
            Right or wrong, I appreciate a well-stated position.
            And though I may get passionate at times, I hope you don’t take it personal.
            Except for #7.

          • #7

            Why you always have to speak my name

          • Eagles4Life

            well said!

          • Eaglesfanx

            What he did in the other games is meaningless. This guy is totally not a leader. He says so many bad things in his press conferences.

            HOW IN GOD’S NAME COULD WE EVER EMBRACE SUCH A MORON AS A FRANCHISE QB?

            He is terrible for the city of Phil…more sarcasm.

        • UncleCarm

          Early on they said Foles leaves his receivers open to big hits after the catch, now they are getting 233 yards after the catch. Sounds like progress for the young Quarterback.

        • Adam

          Honestly, we know the #Eagles QB of the future is not on this roster right now. Chip knows it, and the Philly Media knows it. Vick won’t be ready for another month, and I don’t see us winning anymore games with Barkley or Foles under center save for serious ineptitude on the part of our opponents. If the season ended right now, we’d be pick 9th overall, and quite honestly, if anything, I see us moving up the draft board and not down. – Dustin, 2 months ago. All we really need to know about the weight of your opinion.

          • Dustan M. Howell

            And we’ve had serious ineptitude on the part of are opponents, have we not? Did we not face the Oakland Raiders whose defenders couldn’t stay on their feet ? Did we not face the Packers with a QB fresh off the practice squad ? Did we not face the stank ass Redskins who almost came back because Foles disssppeared in the second half ? Did we not face the Cardinals who turned the ball over three times, and yet, still almost came back and won the game because Foles couldn’t do jack (again) in the second half after the first drive ? Did he (Foles) almost throw that game away, or didn’t he ? Did the Lions not turn the ball over twice in the redzone and blow an opportunity be up at least 20-0 in the first half ? Did the Lions not turn it over again when they were in striking distance ? Does any of this qualify as serious ineptitude or does it not ?

            And my name is clearly spelled with and a.

          • #7

            Whew!!

          • theycallmerob

            wow, calm down marcus. that’s a whole lot of excuses for why the guy is having one of the best starts to an NFL career, ever
            KC has played like 7 3rd-string QBs, and they have the league’s best D. I don’t see Alex Smith putting up these numbers.
            Hate much?

          • Dustan M. Howell

            Even though Smith has the same amount of TDs passes, when Nick has started less games, he (Alex Smith) averages more passing yards per game. Nick Foles only averages 218 yards per game which puts him at 29th in passing yards per game. Nick also has a higher QB rating, but he had a QB rating of 103.5 against the Vikes, and you’d admit that Foles did not play well despite his QB rating, despite his yardage total, or the number of TDs he threw, so what should that tell you ? It should tell that numbers…don’t…tell the…whole…story. Nick Foles had the same accuracy issues against Arizona and was dreadful in the 2nd half aside from the first drive. The offense punted five straight times and he almost threw the game away, yet, he had a QB rating over 100 and 3 TDs. Again…numbers…don’t…tell…the…whole…story. Against the Packers, where Foles completed a whopping 12 passes, several of which were screens thrown behind the LOS, he had the same accuracy issues ( which occurred on two of his TD passes) and he was indecisive and held on to the ball too long. In that game he had a QB rating of 149 and 3 TD passes. Again…numbers…don’t…tell…the…whole…story.

          • theycallmerob

            Easy to say when you only cite his negatives. Did a lot of good to earn those ratings. But there’s no convincing you. Keep hating, must be a depressing lifestyle

          • Breezy

            Accuracy issues on his td passes?! I can’t even…

          • Richard Colton

            an

          • Adam

            I’m sorry your mother spelled your name wrong Dustin. You don’t need to take it out on Foles.

            So you’re saying a young QB in his first handful of starts has up and down games? No way.

        • nicksaenz1

          Good analysis…

  • Rick H

    My point about these ongoing articles about Foles center on this recurring underlying big question (Is he a franchise QB) because he was a 3rd round pick… If he had been a 1st round pick it would be given that he is the franchise QB. I think Foles has had an incredible year based on any evaluation. When do you draw the line and say enough is enough??? I can’t say if he will stink this weekend and next but I do believe he is their franchise QB!

    • GEAGLE

      Preaching to the choir

      just like I hate reading “he doesn’t have a cannon”…that suggest he has a weak arm, which is worthless crap!! the kid can make every throw we need him to. FOles IS our Franchise…waiting for people to stop making themselves look dumb by thinking and saying other wise..

      This is who our team will be built around, so how about people cut the crap and support the young gunner…hasn’t he made the doubters look foolish enough yet? Oh that’s right, he can never play QB for a Chip Kelly offense…I forgot. Silly me

      • G_WallyHunter

        His offense needs a mobile quarterback, don’t you get it?

        • GEAGLE

          lol my bad, I forgot zone read was an offense…lol idiots. It’s like saying a coach runs the “draw offense” or “counter offense” lol

      • morgan c

        Haha ya, I heard on an ESPN fantasy podcast some dude dismiss Foles as a career back-up. I mean, okay. It’s POSSIBLE that will be his future, but it’s also POSSIBLE that will be RGIIIs future… if you care to watch any games and actually evaluate Foles objectively, he has simply shown that he has a pro bowl ceiling. Whether he reaches it or not is another thing, but how someone can conclude that he’s a pure backup is just mind-boggling. Really, it’s just lazy and speaks to the fact that he was a third round pick so people just assume he can’t be really good. This year, he has been one of the best QBs in football EASILY.

        • anon

          Haters gonna hate.

        • GEAGLE

          I promise he is the TRUTH

      • djack10

        in the snow bowl, his throws were a lot stronger and tighter than stafford’s. im not sure what people are looking at when they talk about his arm. it’s plenty good.

        • GEAGLE

          He GUNNED a two pointed conversion pass to Coop in the tightend window that was incomplete

      • Coatesvillain

        Why can’t we support someone while pointing out their struggles?

        For example Lesean McCoy has been a top two back this season, but we didn’t hesitate to criticize when he danced too much. Does this mean we’re haters? Or do QBs require kid gloves where other positions don’t?

        • Jason

          Ha, I love GEagle’s optimism, but critism of Foles is not something he handles well.

    • mrparabolic

      Don’t worry, Kelly already said that Nick is the QB for the next 1000 years.

    • aub32

      Who is making the argument that he isn’t a franchise QB because he was a 3rd round pick? No one is questioning whether Wilson is a Franchise QB. The question has more to do with his physical limitations (mobility and arm strength) and does he have the ability to bring out the best in Kelly’s system. Matt Flynn killed it for GB on Sunday in the win against Dallas. He’s in a good system with pretty good weapons under a good coach. However, he will never be able to do what Rodgers can do for that system. I’m not saying we can easily find a Rodgers. That’s a very very hard thing to do. I think the question is can Nick Foles be so good that we never even try looking for Kelly’s ideal QB.

      • bill

        Well, I do question whether Wilson is a franchise QB, just like I question if Foles is. How’s this stat grab you – 4/12, 68 yds, 0 tds, 1 int on passes that travelled more than 10 yards in the air. If that was the line for Foles, can you imagine the apoplexy on the Philly Boards? Heck, I can think of more than a few posters that would tout those stats as indicating how Foles’s numbers are inflated by easy passes and RAC. Unfortunately for them, those were Wilson’s numbers against an awful Giants team that has already given up on the year.
        Let’s just let both these guys be young QBs for another season or so, and accept the fact that young QBs are inconsistent. As a result, nitpicking every pass of every game is an exercise in false precision in both cases. Both have glaring weaknesses and physical limitations that may ultimately have an impact on their ability to become franchise-level. Both were passed on by every team (twice) for a reason. But both certainly have the ability to overcome those limitations. Only time will tell.

        • Coatesvillain

          If you’re questioning whether or not Russell Wilson is a franchise QB after watching him… I don’t know what to say. I mean there’s an argument that he’s been the best new QB of the past three years.

          • Adam

            Wilson is a great QB. Would love to see him in Chip’s system. With his brain and athletic ability he would thrive.. it’s a match made in heaven. But let’s not forget that defense as well. Wilson has had some pretty luke warm games over his career where his D has kept them in it. It makes the life of a young QB so much easier if he’s got a stout D backing him up, it can allow him to have average or bad games but still get wins. Hopefully in the next few years we can say that about our D and QB, be it Foles or some other young guy.

          • Jason

            They don’t ask Wilson to do as much either. Seahawks fans were up in arms last year asking Pete to take the handcuffs off.

          • Adam

            I like they way they’re bringing him along. He’s going to have a special career after they unleash him.

          • Jason

            Agreed, must be nice to have that luxury. My only hope with that team is that they have so much young talent under rookie contacts that they won’t be able to afford to keep most of them.

          • bill

            Wow. It’s scary. I guess we ought to just enshrine him the hall now. Apparently it’s crazy to even question that he’s the next Steve Young. Don’t worry about reality, just imagine what he COULD be if only they let him be him!

          • Adam

            Hey Bill, suck a lemon. You don’t like my opinion then move on, because I don’t think I was addressing you.

          • bill

            1. Yes, I’m questioning it after watching him. What I’ve seen, and the stats tend to back me up, is a QB who excels in improvising outside the system, but who tends to struggle when forced to play within the system. Think Randall or early Donovan (minus the screen pass ability and the ability to read the whole field, as opposed to just the right side with a few defined throws to the other 2/3s of the field). Did you actually read the stat line in my post?

            2. So many problems with the second half, it’s difficult to know where to start. First, you’re using a logical fallacy there. “best new QB” is unrelated to “franchise QB.” So right off the bat, I’m beginning to question your reasoning supporting your conclusion. Next, anyone can argue anything, doesn’t mean it’s a reasonable argument. To argue that Wilson is the best would have to be based exclusively on W/L. Otherwise, he is clearly a step or two below Luck. There’s a valid argument Wilson’s #2, but not #1. Luck has clearly displayed all the tools, every throw, and has accomplished at least as much with a far, far, far less talented team surrounding him.

            So….yes, I’m questioning whether Wilson will be a franchise QB. If you forced me to put money on it, I’d say that he likely will become one rather than not, but it’s far from a sure thing at this point. I need to see him get rid of games like the one he had against the Giants before I can say he’s made it.

          • Coatesvillain

            You’re pointing out Russell Wilson’s passes over 10 yards in one game. But that takes this out of context. Look at this study of passers and their deep ball that was done a month or so ago: http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

            See where Wilson places? Prior to this past Sunday’s game he has been one of the most accurate deep throwing QBs in the league. That has actually been the strength of his game since he’s been in the league. The intermediate stuff was what came along later. So one game poorly completing deep throws doesn’t bother me when it comes to him.

            I think comparing Russell Wilson to early McNabb really isn’t a fair assessment of what he does on the field. Here is a nice breakdown of what Wilson does on the field: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2013/film-room-russell-wilson

          • bill

            So…my pointing out that hyperfocusing on the results of one game is an inappropriate argument against Foles, and saying that we have to wait to see with both Foles and Wilson is now taking out of context…wait, what’s your argument again?

          • Coatesvillain

            Apologies for misreading your post.

            Where we differ is on Russell Wilson. I completely disagree with your assessment of him. Where you think his status as franchise QB is up in the air, I don’t.

            I also had a problem with your example of hyperfocus (though I now see why you chose it). My reason is that it is something Wilson normally excels at. That would be like if someone uses one game to Foles’ ball placement. It becomes less hyperfocus than simply bad analysis.

        • Jason

          Did you watch that game? This is the exact reason why you can’t trust stats. The Giants didn’t cross mid field until the 4th quarter. That team is constructed and managed in the polar opposite as our team. Do you think those would’ve been his numbers if they were down 23-0?

          • bill

            I don’t see how the score would affect his horrendous accuracy on long throws against a horrendous defense. And yes, you’re making my point when you state that Seattle’s offense has all the pressure off of it. It’s a lot easier for a young QB when there is absolutely zero pressure on you to perform; Wilson’s only real job is to make a few plays and avoid making big mistakes. He doesn’t need to consistently execute the offense, because if he gets into the teens for the game, Seattle is likely to win.

            I have no idea what his stats would have been if he had been asked to score 30 plus points in the game, but the available evidence – the stat line I quoted – indicates he would have fallen far short of the goal.

      • Richard Colton

        Dutch…since you asked

        • Andy124

          Who?

  • GEAGLE

    All invaluable experience for the young emperor rainmaker!!

    This kid is going to be so good that our offense will be scary..just give him an offseason as the guy, and half of next season, and he will be ready to roll.

    I don’t care what happens this season, but I will say I desperately want to get to the playoffs…not because anything can happen once you get their, but because it would accelerate the process if our young guys, Nick,Ertz,Cox,Kendricks,Curry,Benny,Wolff,Lane, Kelce get to experience the intensity of the playoffs. Young kids don’t just tear up the league the first time they taste playoff football. usually they have to taste playoff failure before they can succeed…be nice to get that playoff failure out of the way this year…that doesn’t mean I don’t think we have a shot at winning a playoff game! but worst case scenario! just getting there and losing would be so valuable to our team

  • Rick H

    I am a big Foles fan as I have said numerous times in the past. He is just beginning to develop and he is extremely smart and dedicated. However like any QB it needs to be mentioned that a good to very good offensive line is critical to his success or any QB success (Even Peyton)

    • G_WallyHunter

      and it’s a damn good thing he’s had that, Kelce and Johnson, the beginnings of a new dominant Oline, and who knows how long the 30 year olds will stick around… they’re all in great shape hell Mathis should have another 3 years in him at least..

  • G_WallyHunter

    Who out there still doesn’t think this team can be built around this kid?
    What position is taken first round? I know peeps have been talking about it, OLB or S?

    • evanphilly

      OLB or Safety, imo.

      • Michael Jorden

        I think OLB, but I’ve seen CB and even OL discussed. I think they go with Allen and Wolff and add a S later in the draft.

        • G_WallyHunter

          Ya I’d like to see CB or S or OLB… I think OL can be taken in 2nd or 3rd, plenty of talent there that Chip can probably evaluate better than most.

          • Eaglesfanx

            I disagree. I think we need a quarterback that will pass for 100000000 yards a game and break every record ever held by a quarterback in his rookie year.

            Foles…he just isn’t the answer. QB in the first round.

            Kidding.

          • GEAGLE

            Don’t forget we need a QB who can run a 4.4 lol

          • Andy124

            Total Hyperbole. I’m sure we could survive with a 4.6. :)

          • GEAGLE

            Like that’s literally what the Philadelphia media tried to sell us for 6 months…and you wonder why I was freaking out, ripping my hair out last year…every media member should have lost all their credentials after last offseason, and all new media should have been hired….what a joke…the best was, when I tried to tell them they were insane, they would all laugh lol….hopefully media learned not to pollute fans minds with their silly garbage…anyone whoever said a QB needed to be fast, simply shouldn’t be allowed to cover the he team, because it shows how CLUELESS you are

          • Andy124

            In the interest of understanding and acceptance:

            1) After 14 years, fans and media are pretty used to not trusting anything that comes out of a coach’s mouth. Therefore, the more Chip insisted he didn’t need a mobile QB, the more that seed of doubt got watered.

            2) His first couple moves at QB, bringing back Vick, signing Dixon (even Kinne is very atheletic) sprinkled a bunch of miracle grow on that seed of doubt.

            It wasn’t until he drafted Barkley that we really had reason to trust his words. But by then, that seed had grown some pretty strong roots. I’m not shocked that it still clings to life in the minds of many.

            Let’s also be clear that there are two different plants growing from that seed. One is the idea that Kelly’s offense needs a mobile quarterback. Two is the idea that behind the closed curtain of his mind, Kelly covets a mobile quarterback. I find the second to be the scarier, more plausible fear.

            I also want to differentiate all of the above from the very common statement of, yeah, but how much better could this offense be with a mobile quarterback. In these questions, the unspoken assumption is that the mobile quarterback is just as good in all facets of the passing game as Foles. So bascially, what if Foles was fast. Well, yeah. That’s just common sense. If you can improve that attribute without any kind of trade off, wonderful. But Foles isn’t getting faster. And good luck finding an available QB who’s as good a passer as Nick, but also mobile. Or even just as good a passer as Nick. Do we really think New England is saying, we need someone who can pass like Tom Brady, but is also fast? Steve Youngs just don’t grow on trees.

          • GEAGLE

            Dude. It’s the hardest position in sports!! There aren’t even enough good ones to go around to every franchise…the notion that we would discard a good one, because he isn’t fast enough, is the most bogus, irresponsible, Incompetant BS that I have ever heard in my entire life following football…
            ..
            Football is a hard game to figure out, huge margin of error…but saying that was the most Incompetant CRAP you could ever say. Like that’s the cardinal sin of ineptitude….it’s really really really bad line of thinking. Embarressing actually….and every last one of them spread that BS polluting our entire fanbase…
            ..
            There is only 1 media member who thought FOles had a chance, and that was Roob…THATS IT!!!
            ,.
            You wouldn’t believe how rude media members were to me when I challenged them on it…

          • Andy124

            Well, Roob is the one who came up with the, ‘only rookie to ever average 240yds while completing over 60%’ stat.

            There were a lot of us, and I was abolutely one of them, who thought that Foles showed enough in that shitstorm last year to go in to this season as the man, give him all the reps, develop him, and see what he could become. And I think time has proven us right.

          • GEAGLE

            Yes sir…unfortunately, no one who gets paid for their opinion thought it was a possibility SMH..
            .,
            Honestly, now that you have hind site, can you ever recall a more Incompetant oppinion in all your time following football then a QB possibly being good enough, but NOT FAST ENOUGH to play for a coach? Looking back, can you ever recall a more ridiculous opinion? It’s bad! Like really Embarressing BAD!!
            ..
            It really hope our media learned something THIS year…because not only did they not provide me with credible info, but they polluted the brains of everyone else who I talk football with…SOOO irresponsible

          • Andy124

            I really hope our media learned something THIS year
            If they learned anything, it’s that troll articles generate page hits and earn them fatter pay checks.

            Just yesterday Brookover over at philly.crap posted an article titled “Time for Foles to State his Case”
            As if that’s not bad enough, when you click through the article title changes to “Now We’ll Find Out About Foles”.

            Naturally it broke 100 comments. Easy money.

      • GEAGLE

        We aren’t getting a safety in round 1…why? Because there is only 1 round 1 safety and the bills will draft him high to replace Byrd

    • Media Mike

      It should be interesting to start scouting who will be in the 25th through 28th pick.

    • morgan c

      I said safety yesterday, but the more I think about it, the harder it is to draft a safety in round 1 unless he’s a sure thing. This year the draft is not loaded with dback talent, from what I understand. Look, based on need, we would be good going with dbacks our first 4 picks, haha, but you can’t draft that way. Probably got a better chance to draft a pass-rusher first, and maybe Oline (we have to prepare for future there and keep the cupboard stocked). But ya, we need to draft at least 3 dbacks in my mind, somewhere, hopefully not lower than second or third.

      • nicksaenz1

        Clinton-Dix, Joyner, Loston… other than that not too sure who would be first round material for S.

        • GEAGLE

          Bills are gonna draft Dix High to replace Byrd

          • J-Rod

            My feeling on the draft and free agency is what they did last year, fill needs in free agency and draft BPA. So if I look at what the team needs are I would say S, OLB, CB, OL. Since Allen is borderline serviceable and Wolff is growing they need a FA who is a playmaker not just serviceable. Therefore I hope they go after Byrd. I don’t feel like the OLB FA market is that great and I feel like our CBs and OL depth are better than what we could get on the market. So I would like to see them go BPA in the draft with OLB, CB, OL and maybe WR as priorities. Maybe add some more DL depth in the later rounds.

          • GEAGLE

            I agree in theory…but blind BPA is foolish IMO. It can’t b as simple as simple as that! You have to factor in the strengths and weakness of the draft class. what good is taking a CB if he is BPA if he is only marginally better then ones you can find in the next round…You look at your 5 highest rated players on the board, then factor in what you can and can’t find in the next few rounds, factor in the positional value…for example, 1 OLB can make ALL you CBs better…and you take the player who has most value at the top 5 spots on your board

            Gotta get our safety in FA…I think it’s a serious mistake to go into the draft chasing that position

    • Adam

      OLB or WR. Byrd in the off-season, if Allen will resign let him compete with Wolff, if not then Wolff is your guy.

    • GEAGLE

      OLB or WR in round 1….unless we can’t pass on DT Shede hagemen

  • Media Mike

    Somebody needs to educate that jag off Todd McShay. He has the Eagles picking 19th. What an insult. How are we picking 19th after we win this division, beat down one of those two mental midget QBs from San Fran or Carolina, and bow out with a close loss at New Orleans?

    That would equate to picking 25th through 28th.

    McShay sucks at life.

  • birdsfanindc

    Maybe I’m crazy but I probably wouldn’t trade Foles for RG3 at this point. Our #9 looks to have the maturity and smarts to keep getting better with time. RG3 may be more athletic but I can’t see him as the type of guy who goes to the film room after every game and try to do better next time.

    • G_WallyHunter

      You aren’t crazy. I trade #9′s mental strengths and lack of injury history for #10s leg(s) and cannon all day. (and RG3′s cannon isn’t even that much better, Foles is arguably more accurate)
      It’s easy to say this as we’ve seen that trainwreck unfold in Washington, but damn, I just hate RG3 because of his diva-attitude and me-first attitude, get that #$%^ outta here. Throwing teammates under the bus while #9 takes ALL the blame and only ever credits the TEAM.

      • anon

        My only question would be how smart RGIII is decision making. I think the system requires a smart QB. If RGIII can be a good decision maker i’d call him proto-typical for a CK offense. The culture here is a lot different than it is in Washington, I think that would tamp down the diva-ness, but RGIII does try to be a leader of that team.

        • G_WallyHunter

          Yea that really is the big question, where’s RG3′s mind at? We’ve seen Foles decision making and it’s damn good other than a few “rookie” mistakes, RG3 digressed big time this year, however much of it was due to the knee.

        • birdsfanindc

          That’s the main reason I think Foles may be better than RG3. But who knows, maybe under Kelly RG3 would get better at decision making.

        • Eaglesfanx

          I’m pretty sure Foles is running a “proto-typical” Kelly NFL offense considering this is Kelly’s first offense in the NFL. And Foles is putting up mad yardage when he is playing well and when he is playing terribly, which has been leading the birds to wins.

          Foles also has a lot of rushing yards…check it out, you’ll be shocked.

          • anon

            Not that shocked, he’s got a lot of rushing yards but he’s got a lot of attempts too. Can you imagine those YPA with a guy running 4.4 — i guess go back to the first couple games when Vick was busting 60 yd runs. That said, thing is whether RGIII could decision make as well as Foles. As I noted below his main strength is his brain, he’s smart enough to understand Ds and is a good decision maker. Could RGIII do the same — who knows?

            BTW i didn’t mean a “proto-typical” CK offense i meant a proto-typical QB for a CK offense, there’s a distinction.

          • Kev_H

            RGIII is a highly intelligent guy, but these super athletes have trouble fitting within a workable, NFL system. In a visceral way, it is fun to watch guys like RGIII and Vick play as warriors- taking hits and getting back up- but that’s fool’s gold and isn’t going to win you anything in the NFL. The hits add up and lead to poor decisions late in games and missed games throughout the season.

  • anon

    My first move in the offseason is to make sure we have the best DBs coach for what BD wants to do. After that i’d draft / buy some guys that are big and can do what we need in the system. Don’t care about names, look at the Seahaws its basically plug and play over they b/c of the coaching and culture. Same with eagles D generally, no big name dudes, but b/c of the coaching and culture our D has been doing it’s things…playing within the system and such.

    • theycallmerob

      are you not sold on Lovett, or do you think he’s at fault? I’d say it’s more a talent than coaching issue this year.

      • anon

        I don’t think i know enough honestly to evaluate — it’s really hard to evaluate position coaches from our position. Maybe he’s terrific and it’s all talent, i’m fine with that. But if there’s someone out there doing better — go get them. I think Philly secondary (d in general) has been the victim of bad coaching. Lots of people want to go get the best FAs / Rookies (including me) but if you don’t have the right coach coaching the right scheme it doesn’t matter. Seeing CK this year i believe more than ever in the power of coaching/culture.

        • nicksaenz1

          I think if you factor in that there’s a lot of the same players on this D from last year on this roster, it’s easier to believe that we have some much much improved coaching. Our D was giving up about 23/24 a game under Castillo, and then after he was fired, it jumped to 31/game. Holding teams to 21 or less for 9 straight weeks was an impossibility last year. Yes, this is all very very general, but I think the coaching on D, overall, has vastly improved.

  • ICDogg

    I think Foles is looking at it the right way.

  • Eaglesfanx

    Ugh..yet another “Is the guy that passed for seven touchdowns in a game, and holds the best touchdown to interception ratio the right choice for a franchise?” blog post.

    Personally, I would hate having a quarterback on the team that knows how to read defenses and has less rushing yards than ONLY the following quarterbacks:
    Pryor
    Newton
    Wilson
    Vick
    RGIII
    Alex Smith
    Luck
    Geno Smith
    Tannehill
    and
    Fitzpatrick
    With less games than any of them (aside from Vick.)

    He is so immobile…He could never run a read-option. He could never be an NFL quarterback. I see him as out of the league within two years.

    The Eagles totally need to draft a quarterback in the first round to correctly run a Kelly-style offense because obviously this Foles guy can’t run it.
    Nope, he could never be a top fifteen quarterback.

    We need to draft someone like Manziel…that kid has the perfect attitude and composure. I’m sure his teammates would love him and he would be a better…

    Oh, wait…SARCASM!

  • southy

    The thing in this game for me was watching him make a handful of errors that make me sit back and say “an elite qb doesn’t make that throw” or “an elite qb doesn’t take the sacks there”. But it then occurred to me the parallels you could draw between Foles and Brady at this point in their careers. The following are notes that I can remember about Brady early on:

    Tall, pocket passing qb without elite physical skills. People question the arm strength, ability to throw the deep ball (which was kinda BS at the time) Detractors look at the team and say he does well “within the system” (I was one of these people). By and large makes good decisions (Brady was efficient but far from the friggin machine that he became later), functional mobility, poise… Willing to put the ball in a spot and let guys go make a play without throwing lots of “pick able” balls.

    Sounds familiar? The two things I see differently between the two is Brady is intensely emotional and happened to start out his career with an elite defense.

    • Adam

      It’s both painful but also encouraging to think what Foles could do with an elite defense. I think we’ve got some good pieces in place, and if you add a pass rusher and a high caliber safety and CB to the mix, we could be pretty close.

      Two Names that Chippah is HIGHLY familiar with that could go a long way to get closer to having a really good defense: CB Walter Thurmond and S Jarius Byrd. Both former Duckers. Pick up a pass rusher in the draft, and all of a sudden this unit looks much better.

  • Maggie

    Apparently Joe Montana did not have a “cannon” either. He wouldn’t come close to competing with Peyton, for example. How many Super Bowls did he win?

    • southy

      Very few of the top echelon of QBs have an “elite” arm. Very few. At a certain point, you can throw the ball – it’s good enough. After that accuracy, anticipation, command of the offense, ability to look off defenses… All more important.

      • GEAGLE

        People don’t know how to evaluate QB talent…look at our media during the Vick vs. FOles debate…everyone talked about how Vick was the supreme talent, but the most important talent a QB can have lies between his ears…you will NEVER see a QB drafted in the first 3 rounds that doesn’t have a skill set that’s been successful in these NFL before….QBs don’t come to the league Game Ready….it’s all about what’s in a kids head and heart…..everything else can be improved………I’m telling Yous we struck GOLD!
        ..
        Take a kid with the right intangibles, place him in the hands of a coach that can develop him, and that’s how you get a stud QB….we are good

        • Kev_H

          Jeff George had the strongest arm and quickest release I’ve ever seen. What did he ever win?

        • southy

          Tim Tebow endorses this message.

  • Pete Richards

    Foles has shown enough body of work to prove he belongs in the nfl. I am curious ho he responds with the playoff implications these next two games.

  • BostonianEagle

    And let’s be totally fair to Foles. This is about the plays he missed. He also connected on big plays too and made good decisions. But as the expectation game goes, when you spend so many weeks touting his wonderful play, it is also useful to take a step back and discuss his negative plays too. That gives a more complete picture of what kind of QB we have.

    • GEAGLE

      Question…why don’t people mention his good throws that WRS like Desean dropped, like that beautiful out pattern Desean dogged that FOles put on the money…..dissecting his incompletions is a joke…I’m more concerned with his decision making…handing it off when he shouldn’t be keeping it, not taking sacks..thats what concerns me, not putting every incompletion under a microscope

      • Kev_H

        Cause Foles doesn’t throw a hissy fit when his receivers drop the ball. He realizes it is part of the game and everyone is trying to win the game. Unlike his teammate.

  • G_WallyHunter

    No coffee and no Wake up call make Wally go crazy

  • John J. King

    He doesn’t have a cannon, is a slow runner but he is a smart player. He’s right about the accuracy part. The Vikings could easily have allowed him to set a yardage and TD record. Didn’t happen – this time. But wait for it because I’d bet nice money it will.

  • pjcostello

    “One way or another, we’ll continue to learn more about Foles in the final two games.” — and so will he, I think.

  • GEAGLE

    Why can’t I find a single mock that has us drafting a position other the CB?nwe are NOT drafting a CB in round 1…
    ..
    This time last year Eagles fans were all Dee Millnered up, I GUARENTEED we wouldn’t draft him….

    The only way we take a CB is if our scouts see one of the many first round CBs and think he is special above the rest…possibly a Justin Gilbert….but the OLOMU, Darquez Dennard, Roby…mocking these players to the eagles is foolish, lazy at best

    • nicksaenz1

      Dennard’s disqualifier is size. If that dude were 6’0″ I could see Chip all over it.

      • GEAGLE

        Yup…especially with tiny Boykin…we won’t add any CBs without serious size

  • G_WallyHunter

    Is there some weird American holiday I’m unaware about today?

    • GEAGLE

      If there is, my job didn’t get the memo

    • Adam

      Just asked Sheil on twitter. He said some idiot forgot to hit the schedule button. Should be up now. Didn’t specify whether he was referring to himself or McManus, so I’ll assume McManus.

      fight.. fight.. fight.. fight!

      • anon

        The intern

      • G_WallyHunter

        Thanks for clearing this up fellow Canuck, funny within 5 minutes of me posting this it was up and I was quite relieved.

  • #7

    One thing that Foles does is take responsibility and is humble. Hoping that he can carve up some Bears this Sunday

  • Broadcasting Wisdom

    The sad part is on that 2nd and 4 play when Foles took the sack, Jackson is really just loafing on the left sideline and isn’t on the same page as Foles. All he has to do is cut back to the ball, and it’s an easy 10-15 yard catch. Instead he is just jogging up the left sideline with a safety over the top. Disappointing that they don’t have more chemistry on those breakdown plays. Foles still has throw that ball away right there if Jackson isn’t doing what he wants though, so they’re both certainly to blame. That was a big turning point in the game too.

    • Kev_H

      That’s what I was thinking. WRs break back to the line of scrimmage and pick up easy nice gains on those type of plays and that is clearly what Foles was waiting for. Since he got sacked, he obviously waited too long, but from the passer’s perspective he would be expecting Shady to work free in space and Jackson to break back- either of which could have been huge plays and if they occured, Foles would be lauded for his patience and playmaking ability.

  • Beavis

    Arrrrrggggh. None of us know what the hell Nick Foles will turn out to be. Just like most QBs before him. But the numbers show he’s headed in the right direction. Isn’t that enough? Who cares where he was drafted? Who cares what people think the prototypical QB for Chip Kelly’s offense should be?

    Now let me preface what I’m about to say by admitting we can use stats to backup any argument we’re trying to make. But let’s throw out some interesting comparisons.
    Check out the first 16 games of the following players’ careers. I’m pretty sure the common fan would say these other QBs are better than Foles and their pedigree as first round draft choices protended future success. But the proof is in the pudding.

    By alphabetical order:

    Drew Brees: 3284 yds, 17 TDs, 16 INTs, 60. 8 comp %

    Andy Dalton: 3398 yds, 20 TDs, 13 INTS, 58.1 comp%

    Joe Flacco: 2971 yds, 14 TDs, 12 INTS, 60.0 comp%

    Carson Palmer: 3514 yds, 23 TDs, 20 INTs, 60.0 comp %

    Phillip Rivers: 3388 yds, 22 TDs, 9 INTs, 61.0 comp %

    Matt Ryan: 3440 yds, 16 TDs, 11 INTs, 61.0 comp %

    Ryan Tannenhill: 3294 yds, 12 TDs, 13 INTs, 57.2 comp %

    And now Nick Foles’ numbers through only 14 games: 4097 yds, 29 TDs, 5 INTs, 61.4 comp %
    More yards, more TDs, fewer INTs and a better completion rate than ANY of the aforementioned guys on this list.
    Why is there even an argument here?
    (drops mic and walks off stage)

    • Andy124

      Nit pick: He’s got 7 ints.

  • Explorer51

    I said this the other day…Peyton, Brees, and Brady’s teams were all upset last week. Do you think the media in Denver, NO, and Boston are questioning their every throw and highlighting their incompletions? Sure there are high expectations for every NFL QB and they should be under scrutiny; but how about always tempering the perspective with the amount of game experience? Foles hasn’t played a full season yet but we seem fixated on what he doesn’t have or what he doesn’t do, and often putting asterisks on his accomplishments. The kid clearly knows he has to improve, he takes responsibility, and he apparently works and studies hard. Give him an entire off-season with Kelly and the strength coaches and I think he comes into next season as one of our biggest assets.

    • #7

      Happens to every QB in the league almost. And some a lot more than others. Especially in Philly. Press conferences are graded, body language, etc. It’s crazy

    • aub32

      Are you kidding? Peyton got booed at halftime when he played Jacksonville because he wasn’t up by 30. Brady gets killed by Pats fans when he doesn’t win by double digits. So let’s not play the O woe is Foles game. Sure there are people who are being overly harsh, but that’s in any fanbase. However, anyone who watched the game knows he had a poor showing despite the numbers, which were facilitated by players getting YAC, playing a bottom 3 defense, and having to throw a ton in an effort to catch up. If we are going to praise him and mention his name as a franchise QB, then he should be criticized for games like Sunday. Now if you want to use the excuse that he’s young and in the bottom 3rd of QBs in the league, then by all means count Sunday as a success.

      • Explorer51

        First, I’m not kidding; second, there’s a big difference when home fans boo a team at halftime…not an individual player like Manning or Brady…when that team is playing badly which is what happened in Denver and NE in October and that teams’ media coverage nitpicking every incompletion. In looking at the major newspapers in Denver, NO, and Boston, I can’t find one instance of a weekly throw by throw critique of Manning, Brees, and Brady which is pretty much standard here with Foles. Maybe we have more thorough coverage but, as I’ve said over and over this is all about perspective. Finally, I don’t know where you’re getting the calculation that Foles is in the bottom 3rd of QBs. Two objective…that implies without bias btw…measures QB rating and ESPN Total Rating has Foles #1 and #6 respectively; certainly not the only statistical measures but they are universally used.

        • Coatesvillain

          ESPN’s QBR and the traditional QB Rating are wildly faulty systems. Most people who are heavy into statistical analysis don’t take those stats seriously.

  • Kev_H

    I think Foles’ attitude and leadership are a big part of why this team is 8-6 and has had a turnaround this year. The last couple years too many times Eagle star players seem to be happy if they get good stats in a loss. Even Vick, for all of the leadership he’s shown, has said he had good games in losses (and recently, that players play to be noticed– rather than to win). It’s good to see a team leader stand up and say that if it is a loss, he had a bad game. Realistically, if Foles would have hit on all of his throws, he would have finished about 40-for-50 for 550 yards, but he should (and does) have the attitude that if that’s what it takes to win, then he should be able to do that.