Could Vick Be Featured In Sub-Packages?

Mike Vick running with football on sideline

Michael Vick believes he is 100 percent healthy now and is expected to be active against the Cardinals this Sunday. Nick Foles is the starter, but could there still be a role for Vick?

“Yeah, I wouldn’t reveal any schematics for the game in terms of how we’re going to sub the players,” said offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur. ”But Mike’s preparing himself to play in whatever situation he goes on the field. He’ll do a good job.”


Chip Kelly does not believe in a two-quarterback system. But might he call on Vick in specific situations?

"That's totally up to Coach Kelly. I'm just going to be ready if I need to go in," said Vick. "As of right now, I'm just trying to have a general understanding of what we're trying to do and working hard each and every day."

Vick is on board with the idea, though.

"I get paid to play football. And if I am asked to play a certain role or have some different responsibilities, then I'm open to it," he said.

Vick: Arians has a point

Bruce Arians offered some potential bulletin board material during his conference call with the Philadelphia media Wednesday by calling the read option a "great college offense."

Kelly, of course, utilizes the read option a decent amount.

The question directed at Arians was about players like RGIII and Colin Kaepernick, who have seen a dip in production this season while running offenses that feature the read option.

“I still think it’s a great offense. It’s a great college offense when you put a great athlete back there,” said Arians. “But when you’re facing great athletes, with the speed that’s in the NFL who are chasing these guys, unless you’re superhuman, you’re going to get hurt sooner or later—not hurt, but beat up and bruised up, and you don’t want your quarterback feeling bruised up when he’s trying to throw and be accurate.”

That quote did not sit well with everyone in the Eagles' locker room. Vick, though, understood where the Arizona head coach was coming from.

"It works in college, but that's not the basis of our game. It's not the basis of what we do," said Vick. "There is merit to what he said. A lot of coaches don't want to put their players in harm's way. You have to pick and choose your spots. [The read option is] primarily in this league for the running back, to get him on inside zone runs or outside zone runs, and if the defense crashes down you just pull it. You don't see [quarterbacks] having 15,20 carries in the NFL."

To Vick's point, he was averaging around six rushes per game before he got hurt, and not all of them were option runs. That's about the same number of attempts per game that he had each of the last two season under Andy Reid. In 2010, he averaged over eight rushes per game.

The quarterbacks aren't a featured element of the run game in this offense, but they are asked to pull it when the situation calls for it.

"It's not just based on the read option," said Vick of Kelly's system. "It's a variety of things that helps make this offense go."

 

  • ohitsdom

    I don’t see Kelly putting Vick in for any sub-packages. If Kelly wanted Vick’s athleticism, he’d be the starter. He’s not, so it doesn’t make sense to try and use him for a couple plays here and there.

    • knighn

      Makes absolute sense to have Vick in at the end of the game for clock-killing, especially if the Eagles have a big enough lead!

      • GEAGLE

        Nothing about Chip is orthodox, and it seems like Chip wants to make the most of all the weapons at his disposal. I would not be surprised to see him weaponize Vick…Just putting Vick in for 1 play, will rent some space in the minds of future opponents. If they know that there is a chance of us using Vick, opponents will have to spend time thinking about it, scheming for it and practicing against it…so even if Chip doesn’t plan on using Vick much, he seems like a spiteful prick who will put it on film just to troll future opponents….

        I wish our backup QB held for Alex Henerey..OMG you can run some scary fake FG, with Vick as the holder….LACES OUT MARINO!!!

  • cliff henny

    Hi #7…only matter of time till he shows up

    • bentheimmigrant

      But he’s not a Vick worshipper… It’s just a coincidence that his name and avatar are devoted to him.

    • Johnny Domino

      He’ll be back. Scrambling.

      • Richard Colton

        won’t be sliding feet first. and you know he likes to hang in the pocket too long defending a bad argument.

    • #7

      I guess I’m two days too late. I can’t live on these blogs like I used too. Sorry

  • Andy124

    Wasn’t that pretty much a disaster when they tried it in 2009?

    Unless they’re talking about playing him at Safety.

  • Token

    I doubt this would happen. Want to think Chip isnt that dumb. That crap doesnt work in the NFL. Really doesnt work much at any level.

    You have one QB. He plays and doesnt come out unless injured.

    • damrvrhunter

      Am down for any thing that makes the Cardinals put in extra prep time. The age old orthodoxies will soon be gone the way of the dinosaur.

      • GEAGLE

        Yeah well, they would have to show it against the cardinals, to get the next opponent to spend time scheming for it…but I agree, and I think it’s worth showing once just to screw with our next opponent

    • damrvrhunter

      Enough with the orthodoxy, Knaute Rockne died a long time ago.

    • GEAGLE

      Apparently the Super Bowl winning coach disagrees with you and joe Flacco lol

  • Engwrite

    What about with 4 minutes to go and a one score lead? When everyone in the stadium knows they are running the ball, would Vick back there help McCoy?

    • Andy124

      No

  • bentheimmigrant

    So what do you people think of Vick coming in as a receiver for an end around or a quick screen where he has the option to throw it? I don’t want him in as an occasional QB, but as an extra facet to the offense I wouldn’t be against it.

    • Andy124

      If we have to do something like that, Brad Smith is at least a viable WR to line up there.

      • cliff henny

        dis you evr watch b smith at mizzou? guy might still have most 200 rushing and passing in same game in cfl history. have no issue on 2nd and 5 go with him running read

        • Myke Lowery

          he did it once. you’re thinking of Denard Robinson who did it three times. VY did it in the national championship game. but anyways…to your main point.. yeah 2nd and 5 I’m sure he’d pick it up. guess he should be listed as a OW. offensive weapon.

          • anon

            perfect, i can play him as rb/wr on my fantasy team

      • bentheimmigrant

        I’d be up for that. Chip seems pretty willing to call “gimmick” plays, as long as he thinks they’ll work. Would love to know if he has a bunch drawn up only to be used in high stakes games.

    • jshort

      How about a gunner on ST’s , ….he’s fast enough

      • Andy124

        We’ve already got Kinne for our QBGunner role.

        • jshort

          OMG imagine the both of them ….awesome!!!

    • jshort

      he’s the #2… and a damned good one, good spot for him to be in at 33. Wish he could be content with that and stay here .can’t let him get banged up, if needed to take over

      • bentheimmigrant

        Yeah, but that’s why I’m mainly thinking plays in space where he’s not likely to get rocked. I doubt Kelly would do it because of the injury risk, but I figured as long as I’m sitting in my armchair I may as well pretend to be a coach.

        I think it could be a fun wrinkle, and much better than switching Foles out. Make the D play all eleven guys.

        • GEAGLE

          I wouldn’t mind lining Vick up in the backfield next to FOles:
          1) Direct snap to Vick
          2) FOles throws a swing pass to Vick who heads for the sidelines
          3) FOles motions Vick out wide, where Lane and Celek are lined up in front of Vick, and have Foles throw him a screen.

          if defenses panick and give Vick too much attention, then you just use him as a decoy and make them pay with Desean lined up on the opposite side

          If defense looks in the backfield and sees FOles,Vick and Shady…..lol you have to imagine they will panick!!

          • BlindChow

            Vick motions FOles out wide, laterals to him, Foles chunks it downfield to Desean for a 60 yard TD.

          • GEAGLE

            Anything followed by “60yard TD” works for me :) I’m an equal opportunity ass kicker. As long as we are laying the SMACKDOWN, I don’t care how we go about it

          • #7

            All of this is BS. Let Nick play the position. We will need Vick at some point.

    • docfam04

      That’s something I can see Brad Smith doing..MV would be too obvious..

      • bentheimmigrant

        And so the safeties stay back to protect the long pass and Vick scampers out of bounds for 15.

      • GEAGLE

        I love how Chip n FOles used Brad last week. It was friggin masterful!!!
        Brad subs into the game, runs a swing route out of the backfield, FOles fakes it to him, knowing that when a weapon like Brad comes in, the defense will have it’s eyes open for a gadget play….so FOles fakes it left to Brad, mean while, Celek is setting up a TE screen on the opposite side, FOles executes the fake, comes back to Celek who rumbles down the field for 40 yards…masterful!!!

    • GEAGLE

      I would love to start having him practice fielding punts lol

  • BHOtheLiar

    MV and shady in the same backfield gives you a slew of options and would no doubt put the fear of god in D coordinators. Problem is, he needs to learn to block.

    • anon

      Vick knows how to block — see first redskins game.

  • evanphilly

    Why put Vick in any sub-packages when Brad Smith is on the team?

  • BlindChow

    Bill Barnwell had an interesting piece about the read-option earlier this month.

    Here’s the section relevant to Arians’ comments:

    The other argument-slash-warning for read-option practitioners was that running the ball with your quarterback would open him up to injuries. Some teams indirectly threatened to go after the quarterback on any play when he might have the football in the (implied) hopes of knocking him out. The results haven’t exactly worked out that way. Of those five most frequent zone-read teams from the past two years, only the Jets have lost their starting quarterback, and they didn’t lose Mark Sanchez because of the read-option. Cam Newton did miss a few snaps after getting hit on a read-option handoff recently, but that’s about it.

    The Bills and Eagles — the two top “new” read-option practitioners — have had plenty of quarterback injuries, but they’re not from the read-option. Michael Vick has suffered from groin and hamstring injuries that came as a result of scrambles, but it’s clear that Vick scrambles frequently in any offensive scheme. Nick Foles was concussed on a sack when he scrambled and held on to the ball too long, a play that the zone-read and Kelly’s scheme is specifically designed to avoid. For the Bills, EJ Manuel’s knee injury happened when he scrambled out of pressure without any play-action. Thad Lewis went down with a rib injury on a zone-read play on the opening snap against the Saints last week; he later returned, but the rib injury might keep him out this week. In any case, it’s impossible to truly argue that the read-option has led to noticeably more quarterback injuries in 2013.

    • theycallmerob

      damn, knocking down an opposing coach’s strawman. i’m thankful for that this year.

      • anon

        Lesson is to get down

    • sprawl

      If there were no adverse physical effects wouldn’t you actually want the defense to commit a defender to crashing on your QB every play? The fact that it typically freezes a defender in place isn’t because the defense is afraid for the health of your quarterback it’s so that they can actually defend against whatever the option was, right?

      Am I crazy here?

      • ICDogg

        No, that’s legit, as long as that guy isn’t actually taking a lot of good shots at the QB in the process.

    • Kev_H

      He made it clear he wasn’t just talking about injuries that result in missed time, he was talking about a QB playing winded, bruised, and tired. That’s when you see dumb passes like the one that sealed the last Eagles’ win or the stuff that Brett Favre used to heave up on the road to setting the record for most INTs.

  • GEAGLE

    Thank you Bruce Arians..I was worried about your defense until you opened your mouth..now Chip is gonna try to hang 50 on your dumb ass!!

  • GEAGLE

    I’m thankful for Bruce Arians opening his fat disrespectful mouth…I was worried about thy cardinals defense. Until this dope opened his mouth…now I’m gonna sit back and watch our coach try to hang 50 on him!!

    • cliff henny

      high 40′s, he’s saving the half a hundge for Dallas

      • GEAGLE

        That will do…

  • atlvickfan

    They tried using Vick in the Wildcat in 2009 and from my recollection he had one run over 10 yards the entire season out of that formation. Vick is most effective as a runner in the open field on plays when he improvises, not when he is running these scripted sub-package running plays. Using him as a sub package player isn’t going to help.

    • anon

      Yeah agree, i think he’d be a great RO Qb, but he can’t run anymore..

      • jshort

        He can still run. Not sure he can read!! What I mean is, take Vick and RGlll Why do they make the QB position look like hard work. Running all around buying time, either taking off, getting sacked, always getting hit. Of course sometimes making great plays That kid from SF included. they never seem to make a quick read and get the ball out. Guess that’s the way they learned to survive.

        Then you look at a guy like Foles, doesn’t even look like he breaks a sweat. Ends up with a bunch of TD’s and yds makes subtle moves in the pocket, takes what the D gives him, and also makes big plays. Seems to me these guys have longevity in the league i.e, Manning, Brady, Marino, Namath. these guys hobbled around, but were still able to play a long time.

        • Kev_H

          I think that is what Arians is referring to and I agree with him 100%. Some of the questionable throws you see from these guys are a result of them running around and getting hit. You see Vick and Griffin pulling themselves up off the ground and limping back to the huddle. It’s dramatic and I think a lot of fans really get into that warrior mentality stuff, but to win, your QB should have a clean jersey, fresh wind and a clear head.

    • Johnny Domino

      Let Randall be Randall.

    • Kev_H

      He threw a TD pass in the playoffs!

  • anon

    Thinks i’m thankful for — that i’m not in the FO. I really wanted Lovie Smith or Gus Bradley as a HC. I thought that was the only way we’d have a good defense. I wanted anyone BUT Billy Davis as DC. I thought Nate Allen should have been fired, i definately wanted better FA acquisitions. I was wrong on all points. We got a HC that the team bought in to, that made the group of individuals into a unit. Made them buy in and has them performing on a level that we haven’t seen in years. So i’m thankful that the FO does their job and i do mine.

    • GEAGLE

      My wrong list:
      1) I wanted Gus Bradley….shame on me lol
      2) I thought it was too late for Nate like a bad dog that needed to be euthanized
      3) I though once the season got under way we would see Graham get more snaps then Cole
      4) I thought the two gap was misdirection and we would be a 4-3U team
      5) thought Casey would be a nice weapon for us…although I do disagree with everyone that thinks he gets cut. I think Casey is a better player than we think and his time in philly will come, even if it doesn’t happen this week…

      pretty much NAILED everything else tho lol
      ..
      I also thought that when FOles was gonna beat Vick for the job, we would compensate for his lack of speed by going with two and three back pistol sets. That hasn’t happened yet but if it was going to happen, the bye week when Chip officially announced FOles starting the rest of the way would be the best time to install it…so it’s safe to say that if we don’t see the pistol this week,then it’s not going to happen….just another of the many reasons I’m so excited to see how Sunday unfolds

      • Richard Colton

        Do your jobs! what Philly guy didn’t want Gus? glad we got Chip though, really glad.

      • anon

        Agree — i thought Foles was going to beat Vick, i thought after last year he was going to be the starter, but when Vick played i bought in.

      • Max Lightfoot

        Join the club. I also wanted Gus Bradley, predicted the Eags would go 6-10 and thought Vick was the best option. Wrong, wrong, wrong, silly Max.

  • trixman

    Won’t happen. Subbing in Vick would disrupt Kelly’s preferred pace on offense and allow the defense to sub as well. Can’t see Kelly leaving Vick in for multiple snaps.

    • ICDogg

      Yeah, I could see them subbing in Vick if Foles was winded and needed a breather for some reason, and the Eagles still wanted to move the game along quickly. But that’s a whole different thing than what we’re talking about here.

  • Harty

    What’s Bruce gonna say when his team loses to a college offense………

  • ICDogg

    I have never once thought to myself that what a team needed to do was put a 2nd QB on the field along with the 1st QB. It seems very convoluted and unnecessary to do. What problem are you trying to solve by doing that? What is the advantage gained? And wouldn’t it just be better to have a running back or a tight end or a wide receiver or even an extra O-line guy at times?

  • Bob

    I think Kelly is part of a new wave of coaches that see every member of the roster as a potential weapon. Basically it is following Belichick’s lead, who will use a kicker to throw a TD pass to a linebacker if they have the ability to do so (Vinateri to Vrabel comes to mind). That said, I don’t think he’ll shoehorn Vick into a game plan. If the opponent’s defense has a vulnerability that can be safely exploited with unorthodox play or set, he’d do it. But forcing the issue is dangerous. Backup QBs are too valuable in the NFL and Kelly is already fully aware of what happens when guys go down.

  • #7

    No sub packages. Let Nick run the team. We may need Vick soon so no need for another fluke injury