Eagles Wake-Up Call: Midterm Grades (Offense)

desean_400_102713With eight games in the books, here are position-by-position grades for the Eagles’ offense.

Quarterbacks: C

During this exercise, it’s important to remember that we’re handing out grades based on everything we’ve seen in the first half of the season. In other words, what you won’t see here is: The offense has stunk it up the last two weeks. Everybody gets an F!


I would say the Eagles got above average QB play against the Chargers, Giants and Bucs. They were OK against the Redskins and Broncos. And they were flat-out bad against Kansas City, Dallas and the Giants (the second game). The way I see it, that puts them at just about average.

Michael Vick has completed just 54.6 percent of his passes, but averaged 8.6 yards per attempt and was good as a runner before injuring his hamstring. Nick Foles played well in the second half against the Giants and again in Tampa, but delivered a clunker vs. the Cowboys. And Matt Barkley is about what you'd expect.

Running backs: B+

This is one where the first four games were dramatically different than the last four. LeSean McCoy averaged 6.0 YPC in the first four and 3.4 in the last four.

But if we're talking big picture, we can't be too harsh here. At the beginning of the season, if I would have told you McCoy would be the NFL's leading rusher (733 yards) at the halfway point and averaging 4.7 YPC, you would have been thrilled. And that's where we are right now. The Eagles need to get the ground game back on track, but overall, McCoy has been extremely productive.

Having said that, I could have been a bit tougher with the overall grade since Bryce Brown has been a disappointment. The second-year back has 98 yards total and is averaging 2.6 YPC. That number was 4.9 as a rookie.

Wide receivers: C-

DeSean Jackson is on pace for 90 catches and 1,346 yards. Those numbers would shatter his previous career highs (62 and 1,156). He also has five touchdowns, just one fewer than he totaled in 2010 and 2011 combined.

But this group gets docked for its depth. Riley Cooper and Jason Avant have had trouble beating man coverage, which has made the offense stall at times. Expect opponents to continue to play man coverage until the Eagles prove they can move the ball consistently through the air.

Tight ends: C-

Chip Kelly has said repeatedly that Brent Celek is one of the most underrated guys on offense, and he's done a good job as a blocker, but has just 14 catches and 214 yards as a receiver.

Zach Ertz is third among rookie tight ends with 201 receiving yards. James Casey has been a non-factor with two grabs for 23 yards.

This Eagles' offense could really benefit from a productive tight end who can create matchup problems in the passing game. They've pegged Ertz to be that guy, but are easing him in slowly because they prefer Celek as a blocker. Overall, this group has been a bit of a disappointment.

Offensive line: B-

This group has been OK. The run blocking was excellent in five games and not so good in three. Protection has been a bit up and down, but I'd say QB play and receivers failing to get open have been more responsible for the issues in the passing game.

Jason Peters has held up well in protection, aside from that Chiefs game. Evan Mathis has been consistent all-around. If Jason Kelce could just avoid playing the Giants, he'd be fine.

The protection problems have come on the right side. Todd Herremans has been good as a run blocker, but way too inconsistent as a pass blocker. Lane Johnson is a work-in-progress, specifically in protection.

The same five linemen have started each of the first eight games.

WHAT YOU MISSED

The Zone Read, our day-after feature, contains locker room leftovers, five thoughts on the Eagles and more.

T-Mac checks in on Alex Henery and the Eagles' kicking game.

Peter King says the Eagles have been the NFL's biggest disappointment.

Kelly says his offense has not been figured out.

Game review of the Eagles' offensive problems vs. the Giants.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING

Paul Domowitch of the Daily News provides some next-day thoughts:

The problem is, with Barkley or Nick Foles at quarterback, defenses are completely ignoring the read-option, and bringing the safety down in the box to help deal with McCoy, and occasionally, Brown. If the quarterback wants to run it, hey, more power to him.

Tommy Lawlor of IgglesBlitz.com takes a look at the QB situation:

Part of the problem is Kelly. Should he have trusted Vick when he told the coaches he was good to go? Kelly said the doctors told him that was a 10 to 14-day injury and Vick sat for 21 days. Vick is 33 years old. Guys that age heal differently. Kelly needed to listen to Vick, but also trust his own eyes. I find it hard to believe that Vick looked 100 percent during the week.

COMING UP

We're back down at the NovaCare Complex and will hear from Pat Shurmur, Billy Davis and the players.

Follow Sheil Kapadia on Twitter and e-mail him at skapadia@phillymag.com.
Become a fan of Birds 24/7 on Facebook.

  • theycallmerob

    I’d grade the entire offense as “meh”. Have some skill-position deficits, an aging but decent OL, and big need for a guy behind center.
    All that considered, I can live with 3-5. A few bad decisions from an extra win or two, but at least this year they’re trying

    • evanphilly

      Yeah, the effort is there, but there is a talent deficiency in some major places. Excited to see what years 2 and 3 bring to the table. I still think this team will become a power under Chipper.

    • nicksaenz1

      re: trying… let’s hope it stays that way.

      • Andy124

        Agreed. We’ve seen this team quit and most of the same leadership is still in place.

        • nicksaenz1

          Yup, and I’m looking almost squarely at #10

        • theycallmerob

          Eh, I disagree…the quitting was led by some on the defense, who are no longer here. I think two of the “louder” personalities seem to have a good relationship with Chip so far (#10 and #25). It’s not as if the team was expecting some incredible result in 1 year

          • Andy124

            You make a good point about many of the quitters from D being gone. I’d still say most of the same leadership is in place as departed weren’t leaders on the team. Then again, the holdover leaders weren’t exactly leading the lay-down.

          • theycallmerob

            Many of those guys weren’t leaders, just vocal- in fact, the team was pretty void of leaders last year (which led to some of those issues in the first place). Ryans was a 1st year guy, Vick’s play was down, and many of the young guys were left to look up to “veteran leadership” like Cullen, Babin, Nnamdi, DRC, and Djax. Those guys would say plenty of dumb things to the media, making it worse, and it’s not as if Reid held many folks feet to the fire. Even seeing the coaching turmoil (i.e., “juanita”) would set back some young guys.
            Just like talent, it’s not as if 1 year would change a lot. But I’m much more content with the current coaching leadership, and some vets who at least set a positive example (Ryans and Barwin, Fletch, Soap, even sconces to a degree). Baby steps from the disaster that was last year.

          • JofreyRice

            It seems like every year we get rid of “bad apples” on defense. Chris Clemons, Darren Howard, Omar Gaither, Asante Samuel, Darryl Tapp, Jason Babin. All those guys were referred to as “bad apples” either directly, or indirectly, at one point. Weird trend.

    • Adam

      Not that I’m completely giving up on the season, but I’m somewhat excited for the off season. I have a feeling that we’re going to get a bit more aggressive now that the dust has settled on the new schemes. We should have ample cap space after we unload a few of these contracts (Cole, Herremans, restructure DeSean if possible). I’d love to see them make a run at a premier safety, pass rusher, and receiver. If we could get 2 out of those 3 spots filled in FA that would give us some flexibility in the 2nd round of the draft.

      We’re only a few pieces away from being able to compete in this division. Cowboys are getting older and their cap management has been brutal. Giants are old and Eli is playing like trash, Skins are OK but they don’t have much talent coming down the pipeline.

      • Andy124

        Ideally, I’d rather draft well then use all that cap space to resign our own players. Obviously that doesn’t really impact what we do this offseason since we don’t have a bunch of great draft picks from 4 years ago ready for their first big contract, but I still don’t want us getting stupid and trying to build through FA.

        Gotta find that balance.

        • Adam

          For sure, but with a team lacking talent and sitting on so much cap space at some point you’ll need to spend a bit. But yeah, finding the balance is key.

        • theycallmerob

          Similar to this year; use FA to get some stopgaps until the draft produces some long-term fixes

      • G_WallyHunter

        After watching last night, they should make a run at Earl…. LOL

        • nicksaenz1

          Give them Brandon Graham??? They love pass rushers!

          • G_WallyHunter

            I think we’re on to something here, I mean, strictly looking at the draft, they were taken with #12 and 13 respectively, relative value. Let’s disregard what they’ve done since….. :(

          • nicksaenz1

            You know if Graham went there he’d have a 10-12 sack season.

          • G_WallyHunter

            Lol with Clemons, Irvin….. ya.. good fit.. they’d have by far the dirtiest rotation in the league at DL

        • #7

          Dude was ballin last night. Didn’t we have a chance to draft him too?

          smh

          • Will

            yup we passed…we took Brandon Graham at 13 ..Earl Thomas went at 14 to Seattle…2010 draft class..we rather have a rotational DE then a full time kick ass Safety…needless to say I thought that was gonna be our pick went thru the roof nuts when they passed on him…

          • #7

            Yep that’s what I thought. Had a chance to get Eric Berry. Kenny Vacarro too

            Damn

          • Will

            yeah for whatever reason the FO of the Eagles do not hold Safety play in high regard…they are perfectly happy with Nate Allen back there doing as little as possible…

          • The Answer

            Huh? Berry was the 5th overall pick in 2010, the Eagles moved up from 24 to pick 13. Berry was long gone and they weren’t trading into the top 5 without giving up a ton. Vacarro was the 15th pick this year, the Eagles weren’t going to pick him with the 4th pick. So you’re completely wrong twice. A few more times and you’ll be as good as Andy Reid was at drafting in his latter Eagle years, which must be a cool feeling for you. Thanks for playing! The Eagles did however have a chance to get Andrew Luck, Von Miller, Patrick Peterson, JJ Swat & Adrian Peterson…

          • G_WallyHunter

            lol ya my whole joke, he was sitting there at 13 in 2010, Seattle got him at 14, then Giants got JPP at 15……..

            Who did Eagles get at 13? ohhhh.. ya.. the guy that plays less than 20% of D snaps…

            EDIT: didn’t see Wills comment below lol

      • nicksaenz1

        The skins don’t have much, but their cap penalties are lifted after the season and they’ll have money to spend.

        • Andy124

          Good, more chances for Snyder to screw up.

          • theycallmerob

            And jerrah

        • Adam

          Yeah they’re in play for a high first round pick too. Oh wait..

          • nicksaenz1

            It actually bothers me that the NFC East is so bad for that reason. We’re all going to have shots at a decent first and second round pick.

      • anon

        we have to completely reboot. New rookie QB means we have no clue how the next season will go, how he’ll play or what pieces he’ll need to be good. Look at Bradford, Geno, Tannehill, Weeden, etc. even wilson / RGIII. Wilson without the D isnt very good (or maybe his receivers arent), but even with that level of QB we dont have the defense to keep us in games.

        • Adam

          No one respects Wilson, but I’d give up just about anybody on our team for him except maybe McCoy. Dude is a gym and film rat and he understands his role. He might not be flashy but he doesn’t turn the ball over (13TD / 4 INT), and he can pull up and run with it if need be but he gets down or out of bounds. He’s going to have a long and stellar NFL career.

          • anon

            did you see the game last night? if they can’t establish the run russel just does the bootleg scramble. if you take that away with good edge rushing hes not a good enough passer to beat you (though tate did beat that guy one the one td).

          • Adam

            He still threw for 2 TD passes and didn’t turn the ball over. It’s not always pretty but a W is a W.

            If you can’t establish the run and you’re playing against a team with a good pass rush generally your team is going to have a tough time. That goes for any QB.

          • anon

            First TD defense gave him the ball in the redzone. Second TD was legit though — he does have an arm. But without the D (or if Seattle wasnt playing their backup QB) Wilson isn’t keeping them in that game.

          • Will

            It must be nice to have a D referred to as the legion of Doom…Hell their one Safety is 6′ 4″ 230…lol..

          • theycallmerob

            I mean, is that not the case for 80% of the teams in the league? Wilson is one of those guys that will never have the flashy stats. But he wins.
            And what your saying is further proof of how lucky some QBs are when entering the league; most 1st rd guys are playing on crappy teams, because that’s how they got the pick in the first place. Wilson has the benefit of a strong rung game, great defense, and decent protection- and that’s after Carroll took 3 years to build that team before drafting him!
            For some to think that Foles/Barkley/whoever will just waltz in and succeed- because Wilson and Luck did it- are ignoring decades of evidence to focus on some outliers.

          • JofreyRice

            Eh, I think what you’re seeing with Wilson and the lack of stats is what’s known as “good coaching”. Their team identity is to run the football and play tough D. Kinda similar to the Patriots back in the day with Brady.

            Through the first 6 or 7 starts in Wilson’s career, they had him throwing about 20 times a game. Pete Carroll was very conservative with him. Warren Moon was screaming for them to unleash Wilson and let him make plays. I think as he gains more experience, he’ll be asked to throw the ball more. The fact that Seattle invests in their running game, by drafting successors for Lynch, in the same mold, and is trying to acquire weapons for Wilson on the outside, makes me think he’s going to have a very successful NFL career.

            I do think Wilson has the ability to put the team on his back and carry them. It’s just that Pete Carroll doesn’t ask a 2nd year QB to do that regularly. I’d trade any player on our team for Wilson. Absolutely.

      • GiveMeABreak

        Unless you foresee that Jeffie cleans house on his moribund and underperforming front office, I can’t see any reason for optimism about the offseason. We just don’t draft good players.

        • Adam

          That sucks for you. You should probably find a new team.

          • GiveMeABreak

            Must be nice to be content with less than mediocrity. You must have loved Kotite and Braman too.

        • theycallmerob

          Tired argument already. You speak of clean house as if change in some personnel will predict immediate positive results. There are about half the franchises in the league that would shoot that notion down.

          • cliff henny

            it’s better than being stuck in bad contracts. it’s more that kelly needs fits for his scheme. avant celek cooper dj2 and brown arent bad players, will play in nfl next yr, but they arent right for system.

        • jabostick

          I think most teams miss on a good chunk of their draft picks, that’s the nature of the beast. People get too focused on one team and just assume others are batting 90% with their picks.

          I’ve been pretty happy with the last couple of drafts. I think Chip is about as clear as you can get in defining what he wants, which will help too.

      • Basscase

        I think you’re underselling the needs for this team a bit. Peters will need to be restructured, if not completely replaced (even within 2 years, IMO). Can we expect Mathis to continue at this level? The WRs need to be completely overhauled – Cooper is a 4, and Avant isn’t getting any younger.

        On D, you need a replacement for Cole and Ryans. Obv. safety is a big concern, and I think you’ll need to add better depth at CB (Fletch, Sconces and Boykin are playing well right now, but I don’t have confidence this will last).

        And you’re going to need a kicker and PR.

        I’m saying this because I’m not just looking at next year – I’m looking at the next 3 years, since some of these guys will be older and I’m not sure if the team can expect them to play at the same level. We thought Herremans was going to be the same, and he’s been disappointing.

        • Will

          You forgot a QB…NT…a lot of upgrades needed…

        • Adam

          You’re possibly overselling the East. I’m not talking deep SB run, just talking back in contention for the division.

          As far as the line goes, I’m more worried about guard than tackle. You either resign Peters and a) move him to RT and a cheaper price, if you feel Lane can handle the move or b) keep JP and Lane at L and R or c) Let him walk, plug in Kelly or Bamiro at right tackle and move Lane over. We need to find a replacement for Herremans. Can probably find a decent guard in the mid rounds of the draft.

          WR yes, which is why I’d like to see either a 2nd rounder or a top FA. Then you also bring back Maclin on a tag or rental contract to see how his knee looks to compete for depth.

          Ryans is playing at a high this year but needs to be restructured, I think you’ll see him back. Cole needs to go, We do have Graham in the wings but obviously you’d want to upgrade either in draft or FA.

          CB depth can be addressed in FA. Don’t need much there but someone whos not a complete liability out there.

          Kickers aren’t hard to find off the street, and PR’s can be found late in the draft.

          • Andy124

            Re: FA vs. Draft, OG is the kind of position I don’t mind filling via FA.

          • Adam

            Yep. Guards, d-line, and some secondary spots are pretty plug and play so you’re fine in FA. NT isn’t a young mans position so I’d actually rather a FA than a rook.

          • nicksaenz1

            Do you tag Maclin coming off the ACL tear?

          • Andy124

            Franchise tag? Hell no. One-year incentive laden prove-it deal? Hell yeah.

          • nicksaenz1

            I’d even do a 2-3 year deal.

          • Andy124

            So would I if I were the Eagles. If I was Maclin, I’d want 1 so I could prove myself and get a much bigger deal.

            It depends on how much you think the recent injury would affect his market value. I think the answer is a lot, therefore, in his best interest to play a year to push that value back up before signing a long(ish) term deal.

          • Will

            No…absolutely not…

          • Adam

            Probably not, but it just depends on how quick he can start his rehab and how he looks. Just depends on what interest he draws from other teams.

          • jabostick

            That will be an interesting development. I don’t think you tag but I wonder if Maclin would test the market or not. ACL tears aren’t as devastating as they used to be. If he leaves WR goes from a need to a NEED

          • Adam

            Exactly, I’m not saying it’s probable that he’s going to draw a ton of interest but it’s something we have to keep an eye out for. I also wouldn’t rule out the possibility of him taking a home town discount to stay in Philly either.

          • cliff henny

            hopefully he’s sitting on sidelines thinking same thing we all are ‘man, how good would my numbers be in this offense’. so he takes 1 or 2 yr deal, get 2nd ACL(could scare some off-kelly wont flinch) little behind him and then test market healthy with probably huge stats

          • nicksaenz1

            That’s what I’m thinking. I agree with the others that he definitely can’t be tagged though. Too much money. While ACL tears aren’t as career threatening as they used to be, this is #2 for him. I think you’re on point with a 2 maybe even three year deal that’s a little incentive-laden. I think Jabostick nailed it though. He leaves, and the need for a WR increases dramatically.

          • cliff henny

            i wouldnt of tagged him before injury.

          • nicksaenz1

            Would’ve been contingent on his production this year, which may very well have been pretty darn good. We’ll never know.

          • Basscase

            I’m one of the few that believes you can’t start Maclin and Jackson opposite each other – I just don’t think they compliment each other well. #1 WRs don’t grow on trees, true, but I’d rather have two guys that are different enough to compliment each other given situations, rather than one guy who’s OK and the other’s only OK if running up the field and if everything’s going swell.

            I’m not trying to paint a picture where they need to spend all their future picks for 4 3rd rounders, but this roster does need a bit more turnover (in addition to the turnover they already have). I don’t want to compete for just the division, though – we’ve had 14 years of doing that. Would like to put the best team possible to win it all (obviously).

      • JofreyRice

        I thought you were into taking shots on safeties in the 4th or 5th?

        • Adam

          When did I ever say that?

          • Richard Colton

            It was me. And I think my exact quote was “missing on all these 2nd round safeties makes me want to take 4 or 5 shots”

          • JofreyRice

            gotcha.

          • JofreyRice

            Last offseason. You were saying it was better to take fliers on guys like Wolff in the midrounds, rather than bringing in a premier safety.

          • Adam

            No, I’ve said and will continue to say that this was the year for drafting and putting the offense in place and seeing what we had on defense before we went out and spent big money on premier defenders. Coaches wanted to see what they had out of Allen, Chung, Phillips and Wolff. And so far we’ve figured out that Allen struggled early but is improving, Wolff is a rookie but has shown flashes and Chung can’t be trusted with injuries. So you add a starter this off season and let Wolff and Allen compete for the other job, if they decide give him another wear.

          • JofreyRice

            My mistake, thought that was you. Now I remember, your main argument for brining in warm bodies in free agency was that they didn’t know what kind of system they wanted to run.

            Chung was bad when he was in there. If you could somehow guarantee he never missed another game, I’d still want someone else.

          • Adam

            My glasses are rosie but I’m not completely blind, the position absolutely needs to addressed. I’m all for winning Byrd in a bidding war rather than giving up picks for him, if the foot comes along. If HaHa is still around in the 2nd then I’m good with that as well, although there definitely would be some growing pains if we had a him and Wolff back there, it would give us a solid foundation for the future.

          • JofreyRice

            Getting Byrd this offseason is a better proposition than Goldson or Glover Quinn last year, from a personnel standpoint. It’s good that it worked out that way. I still would have preferred they grabbed either Pollard or George Wilson, rather than putting Wolff in a position to be forced onto the field so early, though. It seems that beyond the soundbites, they knew they were installing a 2 gap 3-4–which is actually comforting in a way; the fact that they had a vision for what they wanted the defense to be.

          • Adam

            What are your thoughts on Allen’s play the last few weeks? Just bad competition or do you see any signs that he could be at least a decent backup?

          • JofreyRice

            As much as it pains me to say it. He’s looked a little better. He’s been so bad for so long, though, and I think the way Davis is playing defense is indicative of what he thinks of the safeties–he really tries to protect them. I can’t trust him yet.

            I may be accused of being a wet blanket, but I’m still deeply skeptical of this defense. Like you said, Eli’s been playing pretty poorly this year, and they basicaly shut down Peyton Hillis. They do seem to be a little better than they were earlier in the year, though.

          • Adam

            Nope, no arguments here. We’ve played some bad teams and they made some bad players look good. Teams have left some points on the table and we’ve had some penalties go our way too. Agreed that they are making marginal improvements, which is really all I expected from a D with no talent led by a guy like Davis. He probably gets another year, hopefully with some more talent.

      • Richard Colton

        it’s optimistic Adam, but right now you have to account for the QB situation moving forward. Barring major, devastating injury, I know who’s leading three of four offenses in the NFC East next year. Until the Eagles can answer that question, it’s hard to pick us to win the division.

        • Adam

          I’m not saying win. I’m saying compete. We’ve seen what this offense can do with even mediocre QB play. With average QB play it’s not unrealistic to say this could be an 8+ win team.

          • Richard Colton

            True. Hell we could win 7 or 8 games this season. But to really compete, we need an answer at that position, don’t you agree?

          • Adam

            Absolutely, and everything I’m saying I say with the assumption that we’re getting a QB in the first round. I wouldn’t even rule out us being aggressive and moving up the board if we can.

          • Will

            You need aQB,Center,WR’s, NT, DT,OLB,CB,FS….The NFC East is the weakest Division in the NFL. The Defenses are in the bottom 7 in the league. Defenses win Championships. The NFC East is 5-14 outside Division play. The Eagles are 1-3. So does it really matter if we get to the playoffs this year? This team needs to be purged to compete.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Grades seem fair enough.

    As far as Lawlor…folk really need to stop with the Vick duped folk meme. He was out there practicing all week. Chip has eyes. He talked to the docs. They have eyes. It was simply a decision that they thought a gimpy Vick was a better deal than a healthy Barkley. That says less about Vick and everything to do with how they feel about Barkley’s readiness to play.

    • anon

      not sure how that got downvotes.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        ‘Cause I said it.

        • Will

          people in love with Vick I guess i agree…knew Barkley would struggle Barkley did a little better than I thought …Barkey is a turnover machine…

    • Guest

      Michael Vick: “Once Nick got hurt last week, I made up my mind that I was going to try to get out there and help our team win.”

      Vick didn’t run all week except Friday where he ran 100 yards and that was it. Hamstring is an injury that only the person that’s dealing with it really knows what they can and can’t do. It’s a case of Vick wanting to go out there at all costs because of how bad the team looked last week. That’s cool, no one’s ever questioned his heart. but at the same time he put his team in a bad position by taking those reps. It was basically a waste of a full week of reps and a 1st qtr of a football game.

      • anon

        You don’t think he’s seen Barkely in practice all year? You don’t think the coaches have? If MB was nearly as good as Foles theres no way Vick starts. But CK et al. were happy to take Vick at 50% than go with 100% healthy MB.

        • JofreyRice

          Ray Didinger made this exact same point, saying that it was pretty indicative of what they thought of Barkley.

          I don’t think Vick “fooled” anyone, and I don’t think that’s what Lawler was saying. I think he was actually being a bit critical of Kelly, which is surprising.

          Kelly must have known that Vick was on one leg, and chose to start him over Barkley, because he thinks so little of MB. Bad decisions on numerous fronts. What happened to the fast paced practices that would give the #1 and #2 QB plenty of reps?

          • anon

            Really makes you wonder who was responsible for that pick. I feel like any GM would just stay away from USC quarterbacks. I know he was a 4yr starter — just makes it look worse that he’s not playing better. I know its hard to come from 3rd string to first string, but d*mn.

          • Jerry Pomroy

            Lawlor was being critical of Kelly. But it wasn’t in the sense of just playing Vick over Barkley. It was in the sense that he was putting Vick out there without being healthy & risking the chances of reaggravating the injury and sidelining him even further. He also mentioned that Kelly seemed to go off Vick, rather his gut in deciding whether it was better for the team to sit Vick another week to get fully healthy & be able to help the team down the stretch rather than risk adding insult to injury over this one game.

            Re: Chip not thinking highly enough of Barkley to play a less than 100% Vick. I find this to be bogus. If he didn’t think highly of Barkley, he wouldn’t have traded up to select him knowing he had a shoulder injury he was rehabbing. Albeit the 4th rd, but they made a move up to select him, not just to move up a few spots for the sake of moving up.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          Exactly. I’m sure if anyone but me says it it will sink in.

          *rolls eyes*

      • Will

        Vick really wanted to win at home for the fans……..got to admire his heart…

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        “Vick didn’t run all week except Friday where he ran 100 yards and that was it.”

        They clearly said he didn’t do that. Also he PRACTICED ALL WEEK…they saw how he moved in practice. If you honestly think they didn’t know dude wasn’t 100% and put him out there just on his word, you’re silly.

    • knighn

      Agreed. If “Vick duped folk” those folk let themselves be duped. I just didn’t understand, logically, how Vick wasn’t even ready to dress one week (vs. Dallas) and then was supposed to be 100% the next week (vs. Giants). It was entirely a bad call on the part of the coaches and has likely set Vick back another few weeks. If he sat out the Giants game, he would have probably been ready for the Oakland game (next week), but now I can’t realistically see Vick ready until the Redskins game (November 17) and he may not even be ready until after the bye (vs Cardinals on December 1). At that point, depending on the Eagles record, there may be no point playing Vick for the last 5 games.

    • EaglePete

      yup, its a hammy nothing more. You can never know if it holds up or goes. Even Vick didnt know. Maybe he works through the game and it actually improves but that just didnt happen. Nobody questions his toughness or character at this point. I wanted him to play, esp per division and Im not even a Vick fan. Yet now the mmqbs come home to roost and make stuff up. Ended up being bad for Vick, so I doubt he envisioned that outcome.

  • nicksaenz1

    Thoughts on a deadline day deal for Fitz?

    • Adam

      Eh, I think the Cards are gonna do right by him and try to get him to a contender. but obviously beggers can’t be choosers and I’m sure they would listen to the right offer.

      Doesn’t make sense in Philly right now with the complete clustertruck at QB.I wouldn’t give up any big resources (those valuable draft picks Arizona will want). Build through the draft (or FA with the cap space we have) but keep the picks. Might need ammo to move up the board for that QB.

      • nicksaenz1

        I agree with you that the Cards likely do right by him. However, would certainly be the upgrade at receiver we all need. With his contract being fairly substantial, I’m not sure what kind of picks they’d be able to get back. He’s certainly worth a higher round, but you never know. Have to consider it for a 3rd or 4th.

        • anon

          teams always want too much.

    • Nah__Roots

      Meh. That deal was more appealing to me 6 years ago when we were actually contenders.

      • nicksaenz1

        Just spitballin’. I don’t think his pricetag is as high as people think since his contract is huge and needs reworked and he’s 30 (albeit in great shape for 30).

  • ztom6

    Bringing a safety down into the box has nothing to do with ignoring the QB keeper and everything to do with the Eagles not making teams respect their passing game.

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      Can’t make them respect it with receivers who don’t consistently get separation and QBs who don’t stretch the field.

      • anon

        No Desean go routes in the last few weeks. No cooper go routes either.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          Gotta have a guy who can get it to them. We don’t when Vick is out.

          • theycallmerob

            Except when Foles was doing it in the NYG game. guess that never counts

          • Andy124

            And TB. That one doesn’t count either because remember, the offense totally tanked as soon as Vick went down.

          • nicksaenz1

            The Cowboys game was the only true indicator of Foles’ ability. We all know that.

          • EaglePete

            it all counts, players esp QBs have bad games. If he is unable to adapt to a different defense than ya, hes exremely limited. Im not ready to say that is a known at this point. Just didnt understand how he missed wide open guys one week and couldnt miss another. We shall see, he’ll get his chance again. More than likely just a servicable backup but hes earned more chances. Many a bad player has had more chances, thats a fact.

          • Andy124

            You probably already know this but just to be safe, nick was being sarcastic.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            No…he threw what two bombs the whole game? And they were lofts in the general direction of the receiver, not exactly pinpoint throws – but yeah how about that Dallas game? Or any of his games last year where he didn’t throw deep or constantly underthrew people? He doesn’t throw deep consistently. That hasn’t changed.

          • theycallmerob

            4-4 vs TB. But don’t let facts slow you down

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Except he wasn’t. Was working on a short field.

    • B-West

      Thank you. The read option is a tool that can neutralize that extra safety to a degree, but the only way to keep that safety out of the box is with a solid passing game.

  • kstagg

    I’m trademarking this because I think this Barkley kid has a future here in Philly:
    The 230 Pound Mound of Outbound

    [With all Due Respect to Sir Charles]

  • Andy124

    Anybody else stalking twitter looking for the word on Foles?

    ICDogg posted a tweet from Eskin saying Foles is good to go, but it’s Eskin.

    • Adam

      Eskin has an inside track with the QB situation. I wouldn’t bet against him on this.

      • Will

        Eskin told me in TC that Foles would beat out Vick….Eskin really likes him ( Foles)….

    • anon

      i saw on roto it said he’ll play if healthy. coaches must really not like mb.

  • Adam

    Where’s Will at this morning.. haven’t heard the word nut stunt yet today and I’m jonesin.

    • Will

      LMAO…Earl Thomas looked good last night…

      • EaglePete

        oh my, that play he flew in and blew up QB holy ccccc is he fast. I was thinking what every other Philly fan was, man we coulda had him.

  • Will

    And in the 2014 Draft The Eagles select QB Marcus Mariota Oregon…..

  • anon

    Looking back its clear we tanked to get a QB. We took just enough talent to get us through the season — when major players went down we didn’t replace them. For all the fans Eagles will lose this year and lost last year theyll come back once we get a QB.

    • Will

      Hope that’s the plan cause the Eagles are awful ….Foles may win a few games..

    • theycallmerob

      Those are not real fans

    • Adam

      What makes you think we’re tanking? Injuries causing you to use your 3rd string 4th round rookie QB =/= tanking the season. That’s just the way the cards fell. It’s not like we’re benching starters for the young guys.

    • cliff henny

      ’13 is just such a tough year. have kelly, he seems to very capable, but needs a yr to really figure everything out, along with changing schemes everywhere. free agency was before draft, so they sign bunch of middle of the road guys that can get eagles thru season without being jax bad, but wont keep draft picks off field for most part and easy on cap. the vets, wading thru the final 2 or 3 yrs of contracts that lurie gave reid guys for what we hoped was one final push, most come off after this season, rest after ’14s. next off-season should be major turnover and kelly can go out and get his guys. and qb, all signs pointed to vick being 1 yr rental, dont void out final 2 yrs the second you can if thinking he’s long term qb, as most point to ’14 draft as pretty well loaded with qb talent, especially duel threats.
      .
      i dont think eagles were tanking, but have little doubt kelly, lurie and howie sat down and figured out the best way to tred water one yr without pissing fanbase off to no end.

  • Will

    Until we get a QB of the future in place this Offence will struggle, a lot of fans will get there wish to see Foles in extended action. Vick may be out as long as 4-6 weeks now…

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    Kelly fell for Vick back in the spring. and said yeah he can play for me. huge arm. got great mobility. I will take him for one year. then wait till next year when the group of qbs will be better than in 13. but I do believe before Kelly fell for Mike. that he was approaching last years draft as the one where he would grab a guy for his system and his offense. and he was set to do so. anyone remember the whole geno smith private workout with chip Howie and jeff. that was a big deal that is now overlooked but im convinced Kelly was going to pull the trigger on Geno late first or early second. and we would have a qb. whether it worked out or not. we probably would be better off with Geno being the guy from day one. but as you know Kelly met Mike. and fell in love. therefore chip like many figured he could be the one to change and fix mike and make him into the best qb of his life. now Kelly realizes that decision is coming back to haunt him. Vick cant and never could stay healthy. and now there are guys here at qb im afraid chip doesn’t believe in. Mike Vick again duped another guy. way to go chip. and btw first and goal, you pound that ball with the best back in the NFL. three straight times and if that don’t work you kick for 3. chip has some self evaluation to do this first half of season.

    • cliff henny

      half agree. i’d say kelly liked mike cause he was vet qb at right price, no picks to sign, saw qbs in ’13 compared to what he knows (who’d know MM better, probably has pretty good idea on JM, seen hundley up close). try and get thru a yr with vick, his athletic ability is priceless in terms of seeing that part of his offense, too.

      • Brent E. Sulecki

        I want Jm. already committed to Ore. once before and love the kids moxy. think if he was in town he would be king of Philly

        • cliff henny

          i like him if eagles were picking 12-15. probably still need to move up some, but getting up to teddy or MM would be reallt expensive. but after last 2 games, 5 win eagle team is picking 5 or 6, wont be as bad. i’ve converted 3 to JM over last 2 weeks, it’s a rough sale

          • Andy124

            Waiting until the draftniks get ahold of him…

            Don’t like what I’ve seen of his personality, but I don’t want to judge on such limited data. That kind of style might fly really well in Philly regardless. Just don’t want a guy that thinks he’s bigger than the team.

          • cliff henny

            what did he do? the money thing, his teammates loved it. SMU players were talking crap down 40, i’d of pointed to scoreboard too. man, i hated talkers when getting killed, someone was leaving field hurt. cox took money, you have issue with him? 20 yr old kid drinking beer? ummm, that everyone in college.
            .
            idk, i think it’s more espn. they build up, tear down. overhype, look at kelly. guy never said a word, but they create controversies between own staff and act like its real. i’ve never heard JM say 1 bad quote. he just wasnt letting ncaa take away his final yr. like that he stood up for himself.
            .
            i think the kid can play. he hung 90+ on ‘bama in 2 meetings, that sold me

          • Andy124

            Maybe it is all ESPN. I’m not passing judgement. We’ll know more as the draft approaches.

            In the meantime, no reason not to hope one of our young guys makes it all moot.

          • JofreyRice

            Man, you really never know with guys–he’s just a tough guy to write off completely. I’d say that the little of TAMU I’ve seen this year, I’m much more impressed with Mike Evans. That guy is going to be a good NFL receiver, because he’s shown he can come down with it in a crowd. That’s a bit of an unknown for most NCAA receivers.

          • cliff henny

            for sure, evans has to be 1st recr taken. dream is JM drops to 2nd and we get both. sammy wadkins isnt even in evans’ neighborhood. i know JM has flaws, but it’s cost vs talent, eagles need those picks. selling farm to get MM, limiting picks when howie struggles with full boat.
            .
            whats the story on this bryce petty cat out of baylor? watched some highlites, he throws a nice ball. good size, good mobility. hanging 65 every game, must be doing something

          • JofreyRice

            Honestly don’t know. Haven’t watched him at all. I’m going to catch up on these guys with youtube cutups after the Eagles season is over in late December.

            Man, I don’t know it’s SO clear cut of Evans versus Watkins–that kid can really move. I thought you were a Clemson fan? You seem to be really critical of Tigers, dude! You remind me of myself with the Eagles.

            I’m hoping for the best with the QB pick. I’ll say this, Howie is not going to grab the yoke of this thing, and pick HIS QB, over Chip. I just can’t see that going down. Chip will get a chance to pick his guy. I hope the Eagles are willing to sell out to get the guy, because I want Chip to have the best shot to make this thing work in Philly.

          • cliff henny

            kiper has him 6th. either harris or boyd is tumbling, probably both.

          • cliff henny

            am, by default. really cf crazy down here, just sucks you in. not critical, just see they’re over-valued. sammy’s good, but no where near evans. with boyd, people just dont realize the skill position talent clemson has. it’s not 10 yrs ago clemson, he is throwing to 5-star wr all over the place. actually 2 freshmann that look better than sammy. SW also doesnt play with huge desire. loved nuke hopkins coming out.
            .
            agree, howie just needs to explain costs to kelly, how packaging picks effects team’s future, let kelly pick qb and get it done.

          • Adam

            Man, I was watching some Boyd highlights last year and I had to look back because I thought I was Hopkins/Watkins highlight reel. Dude made some decent plays but those receivers did so much for him.

          • cliff henny

            boyd throws 2/3rds arm, ball sails at times. he’s fine, no way a franchise guy.

          • Brent E. Sulecki

            hes got the IT factor.

    • knighn

      I think you overstate things a little bit. If Chip had totally “fallen” for Vick, I don’t believe the Eagles would have tried to reduce, significantly, Vick’s 2013 salary. I also think the Eagles would have tried to lock Vick up for more than one year, instead of reducing the length of the contract. I think this was simply a matter of taking the best available and waiting until something better was available (2014 draft). In the meantime, if Vick stayed healthy and totally lit it up: good for everyone. I was never sold on Geno and I don’t believe the Eagles were either… not as a long term option and not as a one-year placeholder over Vick. Perhaps the Eagles came to that exact conclusion after they met and worked out Geno.

      As for First and Goal at the 2: you are generally correct. In this specific instance, I had ZERO problem with the play call. The Eagles had a Rookie QB who went 6 for 7 in leading the Eagles down the field. The vaunted running game was not working. So, Chip Kelly gives the Rook a chance to make a play and build some confidence. If the Rook plays it right, it’s a TD, or he throws the ball away and the Eagles have two more chances to pick up only Two yards with their vaunted running game. If the Rook played it right, the worst case scenario should have been 2nd and 2 from the Goal line. I have no problem with the play call, just with the player.

      • nicksaenz1

        Why would you lock up a 33yr old QB with all kinds of injury/consistency issues? Chip could have easily loved him but still let Howie make a business decision to reduce that salary. I’d like to think that Howie would be out of a job if he allowed Vick to earn $16mil this season.

        • knighn

          I wouldn’t lock up a 33yr old QB with all kinds of injury/consistency issues… but then again: I wouldn’t have brought that guy back, either! He’s not part of the near future so why bother with his injuries / inconsistencies? The Eagles would have fewer wins this season, but would be better positioned for the 2014 draft.

          Once again: I don’t think this was a matter of Chip Kelly “falling in love with Mike Vick”, I think it was simply a matter of taking the best player available. Chip wanted to win as many games he could with this team. I’m sure he doesn’t have “his team” yet but wanted to start making progress towards that.

          We can argue all day about the better way to go. For example: Neither the Eagles nor the Jaguars have their franchise QB on the roster right now. The Jags, at 0-8, have a better chance of getting whoever they want next year. The Eagles have had some nice wins. Talk to Gus Bradley and he’ll tell you he’d rather be 3-5. Talk to many Eagles fans and they would tell you that a losing season is totally pointless if it doesn’t set you up for the future… so you might as well lose some more! All I can think of is OJ Simpson (not the murderer, the player)! So the Eagles missed out on a HOF player because they wanted to win two meaningless games in 1968. Is there a potential HOFer in the 2014 draft that the Eagles won’t get because they are winning meaningless games now?

      • Brent E. Sulecki

        the player will be there all year. the play should get the hell out though.

    • JofreyRice

      I don’t think Kelly viewed Vick as a savior of the franchise. It just doesn’t make sense. I don’t think you can pin all of Kelly’s success or failure on Mike Vick, that’s not fair.

      • cliff henny

        how much confidence can you have in a guy that you void 2 yrs off his contract before he even hits the field. vick was logical choice. 1, into for 3m, he signed reasonable deal, 2, he took 1 yr deal, 3, didnt cost any picks. he just allowed qb decision to be pushed back a yr.

        • Brent E. Sulecki

          and 4. he earns that money in 5 games. he was not a bargain by any means

      • Brent E. Sulecki

        oh good. I don’t think I said that anyway.

  • Will

    Do the Eagles peddle their wares and make a trade today? I wouldn’t mind player for player if we can fortify the O-Line.

    • Andy124

      Doubt it.

    • Brent E. Sulecki

      doubt it as well. I think they are looking at next year draft class and saying their picks are too valuable

      • cliff henny

        unless we peddle for picks.

    • Andy124

      Ian Rapaport is reporting that among others around the league, Vinny Curry is on the block.

      So is Kenny Britt. Not that I’m dying to have Kenny Britt or that I want us to trade Curry, but if you’re going to do it, I wouldn’t mind seeing if a change of scenery and some smoothies could get Britt back on track.

      • Will

        Hell no drops way to many passes….

      • cliff henny

        not going to use the guy, for whatever reason, yeah, grab a pick.
        .
        if anyone could ever get britt’s mind and body right, certainly have something there. by any chance, has he ever blown out his ACL?

        • Andy124

          If we trade for him, we’ll know he has.

          • Will

            LMAO….bad knees go to philly…lol…

        • nicksaenz1

          He’s blown out both knees I think. Get’em Howie!!!

          • cliff henny

            both?! howie’s ears just perked up like a dog hearing a silent whistle

          • Andy124

            That made me laugh. Out loud even.

          • Andy124

            Seriously, you totally made me see it. The ears perked up. The face got real serious. The eyes got real big. And the mole started twitching.

      • Will

        Curry for a first class Center with size..or a demon of a NT…..Curry has a huge upside in the right system…

      • #7

        Doesn’t seem like he cares about football

      • JofreyRice

        Britt sucks. Wasted talent.

      • Token

        Curry on the block huh. The only guy who showed any hope of putting pressure on the QB this year.

        O well. I wish him well in another system.

        Yet another wasted 2nd rounder.

        Unbelievable that Howie has a job.

        Lets take a look at Eagles recent 2nd round picks. Guys that should be main contributors to a team.

        Ertz
        Kendricks
        Curry
        Jarrett

        Now lets look at all the picks of the last few years. These are the Roseman years right? Even tho thats a load of bull, ill still only blame him for these years.

        2013
        Johnson
        Erz
        Logan
        Barkley
        Wolff
        Kruger
        Poyer
        King

        2012
        Cox
        Kendricks
        Curry
        Foles
        Boykin
        Kelly
        McNutt
        Washington
        Brown

        That is brutal. Just brutal. Not even counting FAs.

        If you are looking at players that will still be here when we are good again. I see Cox, Boykin, and thats probably it. Maybe Ertz as TE #2. Hopefully LJ turns it around and can start or backup.

        Brutal.

        • Richard Colton

          McNutt – still funny

        • Andy124

          Roob is reporting the Ian is wrong and Curry is not on the block.

          • Token

            Roob is a idiot. Not thats hes right or wrong here, but I dont know how people can listen or read anything that guy says.

          • Andy124

            Plenty of idiots on these boards, but we all read what each other write anyway. :)

          • anon

            Surpised they dont try to move Kendricks.

          • cliff henny

            only issue would be he’d run 100mph to catch flight, only to miss it

          • anon

            That’s awesome.

      • EaglePete

        best story ever, Britt trying to outrun cops pulls off exit ramp gets out of car and tries to act like it wasnt him driving. You cant make that stuff up, dude had issues for a while there. Was always getting in trouble. Waste of talent is right, explosive athlete.

        • anon

          I’ve thought of doing it before. confirmation that it doesn’t work.

          • cliff henny

            i did once, played dumb like i was lost…got away with it. ended up about 10 cars pulled around me.

        • Jerry Pomroy

          Bees! Bees! They’re everywhere! Save yourselves!

  • Will

    Does the O-Line need a shake up? Move plug and play, next man up? The Eagles need the run game desperately to have a shot at winning. 3 players are a concern, Jason Peters playing hurt, Herremans in pass protection, Kelce in run blocking.

    Eagles might consider putting Matt Tobin-LT, Vandervelde-C, Barbre-RG see what you have for the future at this point we have nothing to lose.

    • Token

      Barbre should have been at RG weeks ago.

      They have to see if he can play there going forward. Otherwise they need a starter at guard next year.

    • cliff henny

      with johnson playing RT? better have the flash playing qb, cause your trying to get someone killed

  • Andy124

    Foles passed concussion tests. Will split reps with Barkley 50-50 today.

    • Will

      Cool…thanks for the update…

    • EaglePete

      excellent, would rather see more Foles at this point. Although between Foles and Barkley it doesnt matter much, want to see both. Barkley had a decent completion % but want to see Foles bounce back. That Dallas game was such a stinker. I could still see Nick getting some wins if Kelly adapts the run game a tad. That being said, maybe losing at this point isnt the worst thing in terms of rebuilding but shhhhh, were not allowed to think that way.

  • TNA

    breaking: foles has been medically cleared to play…

  • anon

    Seahawks trying to trade for J. Allen. All in for a ring. *jealousy* We’re only a few years away.

    • cliff henny

      did not look like a super bowl winning offense last night. good fans, i’d root for them if it werent for carroll

      • anon

        Agree with that — we’ll see what the Percy Harvin effect is.

  • defroe81

    hey eagles pick up tebow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is a running qb! just chilling out there. took denver to the playoffs and beat the steelers! give the man a chance!!!!!!!!!!