Wake-Up Call: Barkley And the Catch-22

Matt Barkley throws a pass against Dallas.Chip Kelly said he was concerned about his quarterback situation all week.

Michael Vick looked like he was on target to start but there were obvious questions surrounding his hamstring. Nick Foles was unavailable because of a concussion, meaning rookie Matt Barkley was the next man up. Kelly had two quarterbacks that needed prep time, and zero QBs that gave him a sure thing.

“It’s a Catch-22 for everybody. Mike hadn’t been in for two games and you have to give Mike his requisite amount of reps and you also have to get your second-string guy the amount of reps,” said Kelly. “It’s tough to get that second guy ready to go.”


Barkley indicated that he received very few first-team reps at practice this week. The coach's fears were realized on Sunday afternoon against the Giants. Vick re-injured his hamstring early, and the rookie was asked for the second straight week to go in cold.

He went 16-of-27 for 158 yards with an interception. He also fumbled three times, losing one of them. Barkley inherited a 12-0 deficit and the Eagles went onto lose 15-7.

"He's a rookie and we can't ask that much from rookies. They need time to develop," said LeSean McCoy. "I think he's a good young quarterback and in the future, he could be one of the best. But we just have to help him out. It starts with me, getting the running game started and helping him out."

McCoy had 48 yards on 15 carries (3.2 avg.). Kelly appeared to dial up the read option a good amount even with Barkley in the game. The Giants did little to honor Barkley as a running threat and McCoy was kept in check.

"The game plan is designed for any quarterback and Mike has some plays, I have some plays, but the offense is built to run with whoever is at the helm," said Barkley. "I do not think it makes a difference who's at that position as long as you are making the right decisions and getting the ball out."

Still, it would be interesting to see how much the game plan would change if it was catered specifically for the fourth-round pick out of USC.  We may have that answer soon. Vick is all but out and Foles has yet to be cleared for a return. Barkley could be the one getting the first-team reps this time around as the Eagles get ready for their trip to Oakland.

"I think it is valuable just to practice with those guys and see their timing and know their breaks in a full-speed environment," he said. "Routes versus air is one thing but to be able to get reps in team periods and seven on sevens I think it will be valuable."

WHAT YOU MISSED

Kelly is learning the hard way with Vick.

The head coach explains some of his questionable in-game decision making.

Kapadia offers his observations from Sunday's loss to the Giants.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING

Mike Sielski  writes about Kelly's early struggles.

His team had just lost to the Giants, 15-7, and for the second straight game, the Eagles didn't score an offensive touchdown. The ballyhoo that had accompanied Lurie's January hiring of Chip Kelly as coach seems a little silly now, with the Eagles at 3-5 and with their quarterback situation in such turmoil. So when he was asked how confident he is in Kelly after what he has seen over these last eight weeks, [Jeffrey] Lurie didn't hesitate to buck up another NFL rookie.

"Oh, terrific," he said, before slipping out the door.

No, Barkley wasn't the only pro football neophyte making costly mistakes Sunday. Kelly had a rough afternoon, too, and as cursory as Lurie's answer might appear, there is truth in it. It's important to remember that Kelly has to have time to grow into his job, that it's OK to give him a grace period, that his decision-making and play-calling and all the elements of managing a game that were so puzzling and infuriating Sunday should improve. They have to. It's difficult for them to be worse.

John Gonzalez weighs in on Vick.

Kansas City. That’s when it began to crumble for Vick. He got off to an excellent start against Washington and San Diego, but the current version of Vick hasn’t looked like the early-season version of Vick. Not at all. Not even a little.

It makes you question how much he has left to contribute. If the first two games of the season were his zenith, do the rest represent an irreversible decline? Is this Vick’s nadir? Or is it possible that he might recover from his hamstring injury and play well – or at least play in a not-entirely-terrible manner?

COMING UP

We'll speak with Kelly at 1 p.m.

 

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  • nicksaenz1

    Hard for me to agree with Lesean for taking the blame for the running game woes. I respect him for taking such a responsibility on his shoulders alone, but, in no way is it his fault that, “Sweep left, sweep right, sweep left”, all from the shotgun, became predictable. I hate to break it to you Chip, but you don’t have a mobile QB that will be active for game day, so you better figure out how the Texans/Redskins do it, and maybe, just maybe, use your pocket Swiss-Army knife to play FB and form a little power run game using the zone blocking scheme.

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      “….and maybe, just maybe, use your pocket Swiss-Army knife to play FB and
      form a little power run game using the zone blocking scheme.”

      Yep.

      • Dutch

        Part of the problem is signing “Swiss Army Knife” caliber players over obvious playmakers. If Lurie wants to change the culture of the Eagles he has to get rid of the eraser head as General Manager.

    • Weapon Y

      The thing that really frustrated me is that Chip used to call a lot of power runs at Oregon and in Week 1 against the Skins. He gashed defenses because they were spread out from other plays. For whatever reason he isn’t calling power runs anymore. His offense wasn’t a gimmick one trick pony scheme before, but it’s turning into one now.

      • anon

        Think he had a zone read game plan for Vick. I think he had more power runs with Foles. But we also dont have a FB.

        • Dutch

          Designing any plan with the thought of Foles under center is a losing proposition. Sorry that kid can’t get it done at this level.

          • EaglePete

            yet the sad part is, Foles is prob the best option at this point. Totally agree with you on Howie, he needs to go.

      • Dutch

        Chip doesn’t have a power running attack in the NFL, the Eagles offensive line is a fitness line, not brawlers and bouncers who are bigger and badder than everybody else in the joint. The entire interior of the O Line depend on movement and quickness to the combination blocks to be successful. They are always going to have problems with quick agile defensive tackles who have a solid base.

  • 1972

    The majority of the eagles losing ways are still here . mostly on offense
    The defense has gradually been getting better. No significant changes on offense. the high profile players need to go on this team
    Vick
    Foles(unless he’s a back up)
    Jason kelce overrated and undersized. The reason we cant run power offense up the middle
    Desean Jackson. he stands to make too much money next year for his production. He’s a number 2 on a good team
    And Trent COLE, Was a very productive player 2 years ago, hasn’t performed since. look AT his stats the last two years. makes too much money for his lack of production.

    • nicksaenz1

      In Desean’s case, he’s going to get restructured after this year anyway. It’s essentially a contract year for him.

    • Adam

      5th in the NFL in receiving yards. Yup, #2 on a good team.

      • Token

        Just stop. Im tired of these debates of DeSean over the last few years. Just when you think he may have grown up he shows you he hasnt. Screw the stats. Where is he in tough games against solid defense?

        Hes a loser and a quitter. You dont build teams with guys like that as the centerpiece. Cancerous personality.

        • Andy124

          He’s flawed. No argument from me. Still has a place on this team imo. On the other hand, let me know when he’s number #5 in receiving yards at the end of the season. I think he’s ideally suited to be a #2 receiver.

          • Token

            If you are looking at just numbers. Sure hed be fine as a #2 here.

            But you cant just look at that. You are trying to build a winning team. You dont do that with the DeSean Jacksons of the world.

            His play yesterday was disgusting.

          • Dutch

            That’s just basic passion in the kid, the drive to win. Take DJax off the field and who do you have that remotely can fill the void left by him? As it stands now he’s the only receiver the Eagles have capable of getting off the line of scrimmage or finding separation in a route.

            Removing DJax from this offense and the entire offense collapses. Vick is not the idea QB and removing him puts the Eagles attack on life support.

            It’s time to dismantle the team, sit through a couple years of horrible football and reconstruct through the draft. The Eagles are $20 Mil under the cap I suspect that’s a strategy that has already begun.

          • Token

            That first part is bs.

            You know Dez Bryants thing yesterday? THAT was way more about passion and drive to win.

            Jackson quits. He whines. On the field. Thats being a loser. Thats being a quitter. TOTALLY different things.

            TO would whine but NEVER quit and take off half the game.

            And the offense has already collapsed.

            Your last paragraph is where this thing needs to go. But I doubt Chip is the guy that should be a part of the rebuild.

          • Dutch

            How can you say he took off half the game, looked to me that the Giants double coverage on Jackson had more to do with his only getting 8 catches, which amounted to 33% of Barkley’s production. So that’s ridiculous as a conclusion.

            It’s advisable that a rookie QB coming in cold not throw into double coverage, you see things differently I imagine?

            Makes more sense that’s frustration after reading your analysis which was brought about by Jackson’s passion for the game. Double coverage will do that to a player.

          • Token

            So just not looking back for the ball is passion, a drive to win?

            Going sideways instead of taking the easy first down, drive to win? Passion?

            I can only guess you didnt see it. Nobody who saw it would in anyway back that kind of play. Same exact stuff he pulled in his contract year. Of course, people backed that jacked off crap too at the time.

          • 1972

            exactly , look at his body language on the field? when we’re down he doesn’t give effort!!!!

          • Will

            Desean is bummed he knows without Vick no other QB on this team can hit em deep in stride.

          • Token

            Aww poor baby. Quitter. Loser. Get off my team.

          • 1972

            no excuses will

          • anon

            he was all smiles in the TB game.

          • Will

            Foles beat zone coverage not man. that’s all.

          • anon

            Oh i’m not saying foles did anything special. TB is terrible.

        • Adam

          He’s a prima dona just like 85% of NFL players. He’s the only receiver on this team with a shred of talent. You don’t part ways with your only half decent player when he’s producing just because he’s a bit of a whiner.

          Cancerous personality? Did you watch Dez last night?

          • Basscase

            Yeah, but Dez has vets to kick his behind.

            Who here is going to tell Desean to chill? Avant? Cooper?

            This team is screwed, and it goes all the way up the pipe.

          • Token

            Yea, Jackson is considered a leader on this team.

            That tells you all you need to know about the awful state of this franchise.

          • 1972

            Vick with his head down for the entire game. I like him, but he checked out when he got hurt man. Leaders don’t do that

          • Basscase

            That sulking was all kinds of bad.
            This is what I meant about Kelly losing the locker room. Your leadership isn’t good when things are bad, the entire team lacks heart (10 straight home losses?), and you’ve got a QB controversy that could’ve been completely avoided.

            This is gonna get worse – just you wait.

          • 1972

            vick and Jackson are leaders on this team. Those guys aren’t the leaders of a championship winning team, im sorry they’re not

          • Andy124

            Good thing about casting DJ in a #2 receiver role (talking theory, not reality) is that it’s not so much a leadership role. He’s not the personality type to be a leader.

          • theycallmerob

            ^this.

            And it doesn’t help that most of the other leaders are the quiet type (Ryans, some of the OL, Avant); Desean’s loud personality just stands out that much more. None of the young guys they draft seem to display that characteristic.

          • Richard Colton

            Jackson is a guy where you would love to see some leadership and character, but (like most WRs in the league) that’s not him. I’ve got no issue with him being on the team as a #2 guy. The fact that we harp on DeSean for being the same guy he’s always been underscores how rudderless this team is.

          • theycallmerob

            Yup. Figured after home losses to the cowboys and giants, there would be plenty of new commenters calling for the head(s) of Kelly/Lurie/Roseman/Vick/McCoy/Kelce/DJax/T.Cole/T.O./McNabb/T-Mac, and on and on. PhillyLove

          • Richard Colton

            I don’t get the Shady & Kelce hate. I mean, there are so many things wrong with the team. Center and RB are OK.

            and yeah. T.O. has to go. His act has worn thin.

          • theycallmerob

            We just have all the right holes at the wrong places. 34 2gapping defense? no problem…just short a big NT (although Cox and Thornton are doing well) and, of course, a rush OLB. Aggressive zone-blitzing defense? sure, if we had some safeties who could cover over-top. Run-heavy scheme with option routes? Easy, all you need are some receivers to beat man and an inside-out threat off the line or as an H.

            Scheme =/= players

          • anon

            TO!! he should be calling.

          • Andy124

            I blame Braman.

          • Adam

            We need a ra-ra leader. Maybe a first round pick franchise QB could do this.

          • theycallmerob

            well, some fans already hate Mariota since he isn’t that type. Can you imagine if we did get him? Dutch would pry say he’s been a born loser since the 5th grade

          • Adam

            I can only imagine the headlines we’ll have to read this offseason. Chip brings in another Oregon guy to run his gimmick offense that failed this year. It’s gonna be fun.

          • Dutch

            No, but I don’t see Mariota being as good a pocket passer as Manziel. Besides, Chip chose Manziel over Mariota while at Oregon, Manziel didn’t choose Oregon because he wanted to play near where his parent could make his college games.

            That’s good enough for me to give Manziel the nod had I not seen both the kids play. Manziel plays the tougher competition in his conference.

          • Andy124

            Manzeil strikes me as a ra-ra type…

          • theycallmerob

            I just can’t get behind him….gut feeling, if you will, but I’d just rather not see him in Philly.

          • Andy124

            Please don’t mistake me for being pro-Manzeil. That was just an observation that fit in to the context.

            You won’t hear me really chiming in on the college QB debate much. I need to watch a bunch of games of a guy to even pretend to have an opinion, and Hackenberg won’t be eligible for a couple years.

          • anon

            How avoided? Vick is injury prone. But Foles went down in his second start. Barkley has played so poorly you REALLY don’t want him to play — though at this point he should get the snaps and play against oakland.

          • Token

            As is always the case with Jackson, he has talent when hes facing a bad secondary.

            Where does he go when the going gets tough?

            Hes been single covered all season.

          • anon

            you can trade him, get a pick and take a guy that’s 6 inches taller and 30lbs heavier and is a team player.

          • Adam

            Haha ok man. Grass is always greener.

          • Token

            How can you watch Jackson do this kind of stuff time and time again and still be so behind the guy?

            Not to mention his long history of being easily shutdown by anything that resembles a solid defense.

          • 1972

            Fans ride with their guys to the bitter end. despite their flaws

          • Token

            No, fanatics do that.

            Theres no law against being a intelligent fan.

          • Andy124

            Fan is short for fanatic.

          • Token

            Sure is.

            But they are two totally different things.

          • Adam

            Last time I checked I have just as much of a right to my opinion as yours. They’re both just as meaningless. Don’t like it, tough titties.

          • Andy124

            Last time I checked I have just as much of a right to my opinion as yours.
            Actually, this is not true. Canadians have no rights on the interwebs. If we have a debate about maple syrup or poutine, then you can have an opinion. ;)

          • Richard Colton

            just had poutine for the first time. gross. seriously Canada, get your act together.

          • Adam

            Sorry I’m not ready to throw my hat behind team players like Jason Avant as my number one guy. Such a great team player, role model and locker room guy. Does a whole lot for us on Sundays. Until we have a receiver whose even remotely talent to step up behind DeSean then sorry I’m not calling for his heads like you guys.

            I’m perfectly fine with looking for an upgrade at this position next year, if we can find a 6’3 220lb beast that can beat coverage, lead the team and be a role model to the community then that’s awesome. But until then, I’m not gonna give into a knee jerk reaction of 3 weeks of absolutely dismal QB play. Like I said, grass is always greener.

            When you have Mariota hitting DeSean in stride next season for bombs, it won’t be so bad.

          • Andy124

            2 weeks.

          • anon

            haha. Avant as leader? Mr. Never open? He runs good routes and makes great catches sometimes, but we NEED Maclin (or another starting WR). Who knew that him being out would be so detrimental to our year.

          • theycallmerob

            I have no problem with Avant this year; he is everything expected of him. And he gets open just fine- his head fake to beat Carr last week (the underthrow in the end zone) was probably the most open I’ve seen a WR all year.

            I do agree that the loss of Maclin has been way more devastating than many of us predicted. With opposing defenses being able to stuff the box, life isn’t getting any easier.
            If the Eagles cannot get their desired QB at the top of round 1, I would not mind at all the big WR/dominant OLB combo in the first two rounds. I’m of the opinion that both upgrades would vastly improve each side of the ball.

          • Andy124

            Leaves me wondering how Benn would have done if he’d stayed healthy.

          • anon

            Madden doesn’t have a very high opinion — lots of dropped balls.

          • Token

            What bombs? Wasnt Vick supposed to do that over the last few years?

            You guys still think of the 2009 version of Jackson. He gets shut down regularly.

            And why do you keep bringing up Avant? Obviously he wont be the replacement for Jackson youd have to go draft someone.

            Good luck building a winner with DeSean Jackson.

          • Richard Colton

            Momah?

          • anon

            I hope he gets a skills coach and works his but off in the offseason. That said he’s too soft seems to me.

          • Richard Colton

            who?

          • anon

            Momah

          • Richard Colton

            I was kidding. Momah is a perfect example of a guy who looks and sounds the part but can’t play. Seriously, Momah isn’t an NFL quality player. Not practice squad worthy, certainly not a franchise savior.

          • Dutch

            Most of you guys misunderstand football players, Dez and DJax are tired of losing winnable games. Both take the game personal and they should. Each pattern they run could ultimately end their careers so they are willing every down to make the sacrifices to win.

            That requires passion for the game you love. That can’t just be bottled up.

        • GiveMeABreak

          What a joke. The guy is one of the top players in the league. He just needs someone to get him the ball. Focus your anger on someone who deserves it: Jeffie.

          • anon

            also needs someone that can take the double team off. There’s really only 2 places we can go with the ball. TEs have been worthless — since we have no run game surpised we don’t just go to 12 personnel..

          • Token

            Guy isnt being double teamed. That myth needs to go away. Hes often single covered.

            Never seen more excuses for a player, other than Vick.

            Guy consistently disappears in games you need him most. Hes the opposite of a leader. But fans eat it up, hes cool, hes flashy, he raps…… hooray!

          • 1972

            the play barkley fumbled he was single covered and couldn’t get open

          • Token

            Thats a consistent thing. But everyone wants to live in fantasy world where hes triple covered all the time.

          • anon

            I mean CB w/ a cheating high safety.

          • 1972

            Top players in the league??? LOL!!!
            name your top recievers in the league please. And don’t go by stats. go by the eye test

          • Basscase

            How can anyone say he’s one of the “top players in the league” with a straight face, after what Calvin Johnson just did?
            ALL HAIL MEGATRON

          • Adam

            Calvin Johnson is a once in a generation player, could be considered the greatest ever. He’s a complete freak of nature.

          • Richard Colton

            Jerry Rice is the greatest football player I ever saw. And if I’m a GM, and you gave me the choice of starting my franchise with a 22 year old Rice or a 22 year old Calvin Johnson I would…you know? I just don’t know.

          • anon

            It’d take Rice, CJ stays hurt, but d*mn he can play. Makes a QB look WAY better when you can just toss up the hail mary.

          • Andy124

            Whoever is rated higher in Madden of course. /s

      • 1972

        its always one. hey fan boy no need for your sarcasm. how did those yards work on his lack of effort fielding that punt? or on 3rd and 8 instead of running north he runs side ways to avoid contact and we don’t get the first down?
        Stats are for fantasy football. im not into that

        • Adam

          You want Jason Avant taking more snaps instead?

          • 1972

            I want a number 1 receiver. I know hes the best on the team, but that’s not saying much to me. he wants 10 mil next year.. you giving him that???

          • Adam

            That’s great, I’d love to have a Megatron or Larry Fitz, but they don’t exactly fall in your lap. When do you get one? 1st round? we need a QB. 2nd round maybe, but you also need a secondary. After that it’s a crapshoot.

            He’s not gonna make 10mil next year. You don’t cut your best receiver just because he’s having a slump with no QB to throw to. There isn’t anyone behind him ready to step up and fill that role. He’ll be around next year.

          • 1972

            So he has to re negotiate his contract. you think hes doing that? hell no!!!! Hes going to get cut and off to the highest bidder

          • Adam

            Could be. But don’t forget what Chip’s offense has done for him with good QB play. He won’t get 10mil anywhere else either.

          • 1972

            mike Wallace and santonio holmes did. You give him too much credit if u think hes thinking about chips offense over getting the most money

          • anon

            I’d disagree if we were a 9 win team. But we’re a 6 win team.

          • nicksaenz1

            Tannenbaum wass a terrible GM for the Jets (think Sanchez’s contract) and Wallace on got 10mil in avg salary. He’s not going to get it in actual salary. They structure these deals to give them cash up front with the ability to restructure or move on in 3 years, despite being a 5 year deal. Jax may get released, but it’s doubtful.

        • jabostick

          I’m a fan of DeSean but I think he’s a bit of a front runner (not sure if that’s the term I’m looking for). He’s seems so emotional that, when things aren’t going well, I think it impacts him disproportionally. That punt return effort was abysmal. The 3rd and 8 was too, but I’m usually OK with him avoiding contact.

          Having said that, if Maclin is healthy, I think Jackson is having an even bigger year. He can’t be the only receiving weapon on a team (maybe that makes your point) so if you can get someone competent opposite him, I’d rather have him than not have him

          • Dutch

            Maclin is missed this year…….

  • 1972

    Im always an eagle fan first. too many guys on this site are fans of players. Stop excusing away your guy( whoever it is) This offense has the the same players of the last 3 years, its not winning!!!!!
    Were debating about TANKING????
    We don’t have to tank because the team isn’t good enough to win!
    Get a big receiver/center in here, along with a young Qb with a strong arm and functional mobility and lets ride with that

    • Richard Colton

      Hey ’72. I don’t see anybody using the word “tanking” unless its in the comments section, which doesn’t represent anybody. You and I both know that sometimes the bottom falls out of NFL teams, but no one tanks, this ain’t the NBA. And of all the things you can point to that the Eagles need, you want a center? I think Kelce is finally back from his injury. I agree that the O-line in incomplete, but he’s a guy we can win with moving forward. Your WR point is well taken. I see us taking one early in April.

      • 1972

        Oh I’ve read plenty of people on here saying tank for Mariotta.
        Its cool that you’re a fan of Kelce, take a look at the all 22 against the giants last game and this game. He gets mauled by good tackles.
        He was picked because of his smarts and quickness.
        He’s slower because of the injury, and now he s making mental mistakes. he has about 5 bad snaps this year.1 or 2 fumble lost

        • southy

          There’s a difference between tanking the season for a draft pick and accepting that you’re bad, and using the season to make your team better going forward. Barkley and Foles need game reps. Elsewhere on the team he needs to put guys in spots where he can decide if he can roll with them into 2014 or needs to move in another direction (Cole, Graham, Wolff & Allen, Curry, Ertz/Celek). Don’t apply band-aid solutions in some desperate attempt at .500 at the cost of building your squad.

          • 1972

            I agree with everything except cole. ive seen enough.
            2 straight years of hurries no sacks. is over. last year the wide nine was the excuse, now hes making the linebacker transition.
            On passing downs you rush, GET TO THE QB!!!

          • Dutch

            If your coach wasn’t trying to win, could you continue to suit up for him every week? Football is a personalized sport it’s a direct challenge to an individual playing the game.

          • southy

            That’s one reason it didn’t make sense to bring Vick back this season. The locker room loves him, making it difficult to move away from him even if we are trying to rebuild and he won’t be in the picture.

            That said, you have to make the calls that are appropriate for the long-term success of your team. If you have players that can’t buy into your system with you as a HC making the decisions for the good of the franchise, then they need to go as well. We had that scenario last year.

          • Dutch

            So given the QBs in the Eagles camp this summer who was the option for long term success? Foles isn’t going to be back next season that’s obvious. He’s not a good fit for Kelly’s offense and not dependable because of injuries himself.

            Who was the better option going into a open competition of all the QB trying to make the team? Which of the QB cut are in the league burning up defenses?

        • Richard Colton

          On blogs you’ll see that. It’s a fan reaction. No one in the NFL tanks. I understand the emotion, but it doesn’t happen.

          Kelce has been up and down. I do like him. I think it took him a few games to get back from the injury.

          Here’s the All-22 you’re referencing (I think). The take away should be that Kelce has a lot of responsibility on that line setting protection, and Chip thinks the world of him. As long as Chip is here, Kelce will most likely be your guy in the middle. We need another G and OT long before we need a center.

          http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/10/25/matchup-eagles-vs-giants/

          • Will

            Kelce got beat by the NT Nut stunts all game from player’s that weigh 350 lbs. or more. this occurred in two Gnats games and is out there on film. Other teams should follow suit and if they do you have no inside zone read play which is what the Offense is predicated on that 1 play. There is no option without Vick to run the ball so they key in on McCoy kinda defeats the purpose of the whole play. So Chip has to re-do the blocking scheme and have Kelce crash down on the side McCoy lines up on and reassign the blocking scheme.

          • Richard Colton

            The nut stunt isn’t the Crane Kick. There’s a defense. Kelce and the line adjusted in the next game. He’s a guy we can grow with. Seriously, the team had a bad game. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t want to dump Shady either – and he’s had a lousy 2 weeks.

          • 1972

            Crane kick lol… Shadys a great player, kelce not so much. Hes not a good run blocking center.

          • Dutch

            Unfortunately that’s what may be required to reconstruct the Eagles, dismantling this entire team and at this point Shady, Peters, Cox and D Jax are the most tradeable assets that can bring improved draft picks.

            The Eagles may have to go the route of a fire sale to improve.

        • Dutch

          That’s ludacris, there’s no possible way to get 22 guys plus those on your special teams to have a single focus on tanking a season.

          That’s shear loser mentality of someone that’s never played or understand the mental aspect of playing football.

      • 1972

        I want a
        QB
        OLB
        S
        WR
        C
        In that order

    • anon

      I’m a Vick guy but am ready to admit we need a new QB asap. This year is only making it more apparent. I can’t believe we’re at 3-5 and i can’t believe how terrible the team has looked over the last 2 games. For whatever reason our o-line isn’t good despite it being the best thing about our team going into the season.

      I wish we had an earlier bye week to give us some time to right this ship.

  • Will

    Offensive woes continue, the player’s on Offense can’t get it done without a healthy Vick. The O-Line is showing it’s age and Kelce is way to small. McCoy is the only real threat and teams are taking him out of the game. WR’s can’t beat man coverage. So teams will continue to load the box against the run, gonna be an ugly stretch till Vick gets back. Even with a healthy Vick this Offense can struggle against good Defenses. I am all for tanking to go after Mariota, sad part is they are losing because the team is that bad. Tanking not required. Vick will need 4-6 weeks to heal up now this team is going nowhere fast. Unless Foles gets healthy and puts together some stellar performances back to back.

    • anon

      Eagles = Vikings.

      • Will

        Why would you bother to win one game if you go into at 3-10? Tanking would seem the better option without the right QB Chip’s offense doesn’t work at the NFL level. As soon as a non mobil QB goes in they stack against McCoy and go into man coverage which are WR’s have proven they can’t get open. When they do neither Foles or Barkley can throw an accurate deep ball.

        • anon

          need better players all around.

          • Will

            Starting to look that way. Years of terrible drafts have finally caught up with the Eagles.

        • nicksaenz1

          I think that begs the question of what is the real problem: not having a 2nd mobile QB or the system necessitating a mobile QB to be effective? I’d prefer a more sound offense that required a pocket-style QB that had mobility, but not necessarily a “running QB”, a la Rodgers/Luck.

          • Dutch

            Then you had better load up on Bronco gear because there is zero chance Kelly is going to play that kind of offense without the key components in place and that requires more than just a pocket qb in place. That is why Andy Reid ran into problems, the play makers just are not in Philly.

            What good is a pocket QB in Philly when the outside receivers can not beat single coverage? Enough of the problem on the offense is Brent Celek is the best Tight End, wrap your mind around that for a second.

    • Adam

      Vick’s not coming back. No chance the Eagles are in contention in 4-6 weeks. They go with Foles and Barkley till the seasons over.

      • Andy124

        Agreed.

  • Will

    The Gnats figured out just to Nut Stunt on Defense to shut down the inside zone read option play, till the Eagles figure it out teams will continue to stunt on Kelce. This forces the run game to the outside zone read plays, thus making it a one dimension run game. With out a threat of a running QB Defenses key on McCoy all day. Neither Foles or Barkley have shown they can beat man coverage unless any of this changes the Eagles will continue to have Offensive woes and I suspect continue to lose.

    • 1972

      Doesn’t help that kelce sucks!!! j/k hes a ok player for such a late round pick.
      But he was a mud guy. He could never play for a power running team like san fran

      • Will

        The nut stunt has the NT stunting or looping to the side of Kelce where McCoy is lined up in the back field rather simple solution for the inside zone read play. Till the Eagles figure out an effective blocking answer or counter teams will continue to do what works. The fact Kelce is under sized does not help.

        • 1972

          more conventional running plays. Unfortunately our center is only effective with zone blocking

      • Will

        Jamal Jackson where r u? You wonder y the cowgirls went for Center first in the draft.

        • Dutch

          Jackson was not as good as some of you suspect, Jackson was the anchor of an Offensive line that averaged 48 sacks a season, he needed replacing……. Now without big quick guards that can handle the heat on the inside the Eagles can not muster a dominate run game in the type that the Redskins feature.

          If Jackson were any good he would have been picked up by another team after his release from the Eagles.

        • jabostick

          Let’s not use the Cowboys approach to building a team as our blueprint

      • Dutch

        You could extend that to Mathis and Herreman also, they just don’t have the brawn necessary to get interior movement for a power attack.

  • Stuart Philp

    It’s looking like Barkley will be starting for at least this week, but probably the next 2 or 3, so we’ll see what he can do with a full week of practice being the guy. He’s shown flashes at times, and then makes some expected mistakes. I’m taking this is as another see what we have week. Going against the Raiders should be a good game to get his feet under him.

    • Will

      Barkley can be effective with the short passing game. Soon as teams take away the underneath stuff Barkley will struggle going deep with the ball. Strap in gonna be ugly with no run game if Oakland takes a page out of Gnats defensive playbook .

    • Token

      Vick is probably done for good. Figure a 4 week injury again. 4 losses. There would be no reason to play him.

      Overlooking the Raiders? People thought the Giants was a easy game, told you it wouldnt be. This team isnt good. We just cant think we have a easy game against anyone. We are the team that other teams think is the easy game.

      Going across country. I think its a loss. Those games are always tough regardless.

      • Andy124

        We’ve got to be the underdog against the Raiders.

      • Stuart Philp

        Not overlooking, I think we’re evenly matched. If I could pick a team for a rookie QB to play against, Oakland would be one of them.

        • 1972

          oaklands d is pretty good this year. Better than our offense

          • anon

            yeah decent secondary.

          • Token

            People just hear Raiders and think “suck”. Cant blame them.

            I dont care who you are playing though, going cross country is tough.

          • 1972

            A lot of people in my pool picked the steelers yesterday because of name and history.
            Watch the games

          • Dutch

            The legacy of the Raiders vs Steelers. Yesterday looked like one of the 1970 Raiders vs Steelers slug festivals when Blount was stalking Branch, and Casper was going against Jack Ham.

        • Basscase

          Don’t sleep on Oakland. They don’t suck. Plus their offense is better than what the Eagles are showing.

        • Dutch

          Raiders have speed on the outside and brawn and quickness across the defensive line. This is not a give me game for the Eagles. The hope this defense has is deception because the Eagles back end defense outside of Boykins can not stay with the Raiders receivers.

      • Dutch

        The Giants game was loss last week when the decision was made not to give Barkley the reps exclusively with the first team to get him prepared.

    • 1972

      2-3 weeks?? how hard did foles hit his head? My god this whole thing could of been prevented if deer in the head lights throws the damn ball away SMH

      • 1972

        kolb part 2. If hes out this long for a concussion that’s a major issue

        • Andy124

          I’m not there yet, but if he gets hurt again this year after he comes back, he’s gonna have to wear that “injury prone” label.

          • Dutch

            In 7 Starts over two seasons Foles has failed to complete 30% of those games, how many games does he have to get knocked out of before being recognized as what he is, injury prone?

            Most people would consider him fragile now.

          • BlindChow

            Stafford’s injury history was worse than that his first couple years. Now no one mentions it.

          • Dutch

            Foles is nothing like Stafford and has never been. Stafford cut his teeth in the SEC at Georgia and was pretty successful, Foles can’t compare. Even so I question if Stafford could be as successful in the NFL without Megatron.

          • BlindChow

            Uh, what does that have to do with being labeled “injury prone?”

            Did you just read “Stafford” and Dutchbot out a response?

          • Dutch

            Stafford is able to distance himself from being fragile, like Foles is because of the strength in his arm and accuracy. That is not evident with Foles who hasn’t shown any strengths or the ability to make the most remedial NFL throws. Romo is equally pretty fragile, but he is not paranoid when it comes to steering down a rush like Foles has shown.

          • BlindChow

            Actually, I would say the fact Stafford hasn’t missed any games the past two and a half years probably has a lot more to do with it.

        • Dutch

          Concussion and Fear reigns supreme. Kolb’s single issue was fear of the rush and sadly it looks like the rush has shaken up Foles. A good pounding in the pocket changes some QB perspective. Look what it’s done to Matt Ice in Atlanta, he’s a shell of himself.

  • Adam

    This team isn’t gonna compete with the Cowboys in the NFC East. Shut Vick down and give the week of 1st team snaps to Barkley and see what he does against Oakland. Then when Foles comes back you reevaluate going forward. Might as well get the growing pains out of the way and have a better chance at a top 10 pick.

    • Dutch

      I agree, Barkley should have gotten prepared last week. Given reps with the first team it’s not likely that Foles will ever see the field as an Eagle again unless there’s a drastic re injury to his shoulder.

      Barkley is not the cause of the Eagles last two defeats. He was a cold rookie thrown to the wolves to throw the Eagles back into both contest with little to no practice time. Barkley actually moved the offense pretty good considering the had no support from the running game.

  • Bdawk20

    I would hope that Kelly can just name Barkley the starter for Oakland today to give him full reps in practice. Not sure of the outcome, but if Foles isn’t ready to go today, then we cannot afford a repeat of last week. Plus, Barkley back in the Bay Area has to count for something. In terms of a mobile QB for his system, Kelly drafted Barkley, who is not all that mobile, so there has to be some weight to that. Will this pan out? Probably not, but hey, might as well see what you got in the kid with a full first-team rep under his belt.

    • Will

      All Oakland has to do is Nut Stunt Kelce disrupting our run game zeroing in on McCoy, and take away the short passing game like Dallas did. Thus rendering the Offense ineffective again. The blueprint is out there on film. Barkley’s weak arm makes it hard to throw deep with out an interception lacks zip on his passes.

      • BlindChow

        Dallas didn’t take away anything. Foles just couldn’t get the ball to the wide open receivers.

        • Will

          Dallas took away the middle of the field where Foles tried to force the ball. The outside deep pass was wide open. The all-22 showed that.

          • BlindChow

            There were open receivers all over the field. He constantly overthrew or underthrew wide open guys. Jesus, look at the All-22 reviews of that game. This isn’t even debatable.

    • Andy124

      No practice today, so Nick gets another day to get cleared, but I haven’t heard a dang whisper about his situation. He might not be close for all we know.

      • anon

        eerily quiet.

        • Andy124

          Well said. Warning flags abound.

          • Richard Colton

            Have you seen the melon on that guy? He’s got to be 50% more concussion prone with a head like that.

          • Andy124

            I’ve watched a lot of MMA and the theme there is that guys with large heads tend to absorb shots to the head better. See: Leben, Chris; Hunt, Mark.

            Pretty confident that’s a case of corrolation vs. causation though.

          • EaglePete

            ya its amazing how some of those fighters can just take a beating like no other. While other guys just get clipped and go down.

          • Basscase

            I didn’t like how there was NO mention of him in the news at all – no results of his concussion tests, no interviews……it was like he dropped off the face of the planet.

            He’s either been protected or it’s worse than we think. Even if he’s seemingly OK, do you allow him to take a flight to LA?

      • Dutch

        after his outing against the cowboys what exactly is there to hope for in Foles return? Had we gone into the season with Foles and released Vick, we are looking at a one win team at this point in the season.

  • GiveMeABreak

    Having Barkley as your #3 is another roster flub. Do we have any recent draft picks who are playing well? The “Chip is our savior” postings that were so prevalent here are few and far between now. This is pretty predictable, however, as the guy was an OC at I-AA school as recently as ’06. We’ll see whether he can get this under control. The problem is that we are too coach-centric. Organizations win in the NFL and ours is not good (being nice here). Jeffie and his sycophants are putting a worse product on the field than stinkin’ Norman.

    • anon

      Agree but he’s a first year coach most don’t do well year one and we have a roster that stunk it up w a veteran coach last year. It’s not like he’s schiano bad.

      • GiveMeABreak

        Yes, we need more time to tell but without a good organization around him, he does not have much of a chance. QB is a good example. He inherited a good offense with a question mark at QB. Having Barkley as your #3 is not much of a plan when #7 just does not play all 16 games and your #2 is a question mark. It’s not clear that Chip made that decision. It would be interesting to compare what we are paying our 3 QBs versus other teams as Jeffie looks to Howie to give us a financially lean” roster. Near as I can tell, Howie is not successful at anything else.

        • anon

          Yeah Im sure Lorie is taking a big pay raise this year — highter ticket prices, 20$mm under the cap. On QBs we’re paying Vick between 6-9M the rest of the QBs are on mid-round rookie contracts (probably around $600k). I’d say we’re under $10M for all 3. It’s $20M per yr if you’ve won a SB (or your name is Romo).

          • anon

            which goes to say — it’s silly that we aren’t paying for a QB but we didn’t get any halfway decent pieces on D or O. It’d be nice if we grabbed a marquee guy.

          • GiveMeABreak

            Good observations. We declined to spend money in a number of areas. I also heard (but have not confirmed) that we brought in fewer than the total amount of prospects that were allowed into summer camp.

          • EaglePete

            ya and now the question becomes, with all that cap space, what FAs will want to come here and play. My guess is not many unless they over pay. This organization wont go far until Lurie dumps Howie. Not taking too much stock in KC but you have to admire Reid and putting together that staff he has. Makes me wonder if Jeffrey didnt start to give the reigns to Howie in the last yrs of Reid a bit too soon and too much. I think Reid was a goner anyway but its something to consider.

          • Maggie

            How stupid. Dump Howie. The almost newcomer. The problems, if there are any, regarding salary caps, etc. were going on long before Roseman arrived on the scene.

          • Dutch

            Lurie’s livelihood has always been selling tickets. He’s only gotten better since purchasing the Eagles. Roseman antics with an eraser is what moved him up the career ladder.

          • Maggie

            Lurie is a business owner. He invests for the express purpose of trying to make a profit. You know. The great American Dream. The reason YOUR ancestors came to the US in the first place, right? As an incorporated company, the Eagles are subject to many legal rules nd regulations, but there is nothing that says a company principal owner can’t make money! This is separate from the number of dollars used for salaries, cost of doing business, etc. Salaries are tax write-offs, remember? Such resentment of a wealthy man is unbecoming.

  • southy

    John Gonzalez wrote those two paragraphs just so he could manage to squeeze in the word “nadir”.

    • Andy124

      He did, and I approve.

  • Andy

    It always sucks to lose to the Giants, but this team has already won almost as many games as last season. With almost the same roster and a big change in schemes on both sides of the ball, they still look better than last year’s team. Let’s keep that in mind.

    • Will

      Give me a break….do not have the right player’s either side of the ball to run the schemes effectively…on Offense your center is too small, your WR’s can’t beat man coverage, your QB situation beyond Vick is horrendous, On Defense you need a NT,OLB, CB,FS,SS. How in the hell has anything got better?

      • Dutch

        Those are issues that initiate in the front office, it’s not as if Chip had a lot to pick from in all the QBs invited to the Eagles training camp. He also did not have much on the defensive side of the ball to make selections.

    • Token

      lol

    • Dutch

      I agree, he’s made an omelette without eggs. I’m even impressed he has fielded a defense that seems to want to make plays albeit the overall weakness of the unit.

  • jabostick

    I’m interested to see how the team responds, Chip included.
    Don’t get me wrong, Chip basically gets a pass from me this season because I
    knew going in that it’d likely be a rebuilding year, but I’d like to see him
    respond with a creative game plan. This is exactly the time when all his
    theories about going for 2 to gain extra points, trying some unique formations,
    etc make sense – a losing record, a rookie 4th rd QB, officially low
    low expectations….

    • Dutch

      Considering Chip is new to this level of football there’s a curve involved and he has to make adjustments. The play calling has been painfully obvious.

      I’d give him another year to look back at game tapes and make the necessary game management adjustments. Mistakes aren’t fatal until the same mistakes are costing the Eagles games. He’s 3 & 5 with a 4 win team last season and still in the middle of the division race.

      • jabostick

        I can agree with that. But this just feels like a week where he needs to instil some confidence in the team in the way he responds. It isn’t make-or-break or anything but go earn some of that Offensive Guru status.

        Go see what your 3 TE offense looks like, for example. Try something on special teams. The upside is catching the Cowboys, the downside is the current status quo.

        • Dutch

          I can agree with you, but on the other hand featuring 3 Tight Ends means some reliance on Celek and Casey. That seems pretty much a dead end street. Chip may be able to work in other schemes but he just doesn’t have much talent up and down the roster to depend on right now.

          A lot of these guys filling roster spots won’t be in Philly next season.

          All the Eagles fans knew there wasn’t much on this roster to work with. Still the season is worth watching because there is some hope for the division.

          What has to stop is Eagles Fans accepting the unacceptable. This is not X Box or Playstation Football and Hope or wishing isn’t sound strategies. Chip is learning on the job and in that matter he’s not doing a horrible job or has it been a easy task thus far.

          • jabostick

            I don’t think he’s doing a horrible job at all. I just think there’s unexplored avenues and now is the time to explore them – and lack of talent is one of the reasons why he could do it.

            Celek/Casey may be a dead end (though we don’t know the answer yet) but so is Cooper for the most part; and so is Barkley’s Read Option (or his pretending to do a Read Option if it’s actually just a hand off).

          • Dutch

            I would expect to see some improvement in game management being half the season is completed, so we shall see if he’s learned much to help him the rest of the way. He is not getting blown out of games. And I think there is a lack of discipline to account for close losses, I’m anxious to see if he can tighten up along those lines.

            Lack of Talent is what it is right now and all short of a block buster trade that’s not going to change much this season.

            the Games have been interesting so long as he continues with that I’m ok with this season.

  • EaglePete

    Ok, I want Foles back in. I still want to see if he has the ability to show any consistency. Time is now to find out. I wouldnt mind seeing Barkley either just think Foles is better at this point and with the team still technically in it I think you go with him. That being said, its hard to not root for the draft, it seems to be eeking in that direction in the big picture.