Game Review: Eagles Offense Vs. Bucs ‘D’

Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Nick Foles (9) spikes the football after scoring on a four-yard touchdown run during the first quarter of an NFL football game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers Sunday, Oct. 13, 2013, in Tampa, Fla. (AP Photo/Chris O'Meara)

Here’s a position-by-position look at what we saw from the Eagles’ offense after having re-watched Sunday’s game.

QUARTERBACK


* Nick Foles' numbers speak for themselves: 22-for-31 (71 percent) for 296 yards (9.5 YPA), three touchdowns and no interceptions. Foles also ran in for a score. This was different than last week's game. He was going up against a Bucs defense that has some talent, specifically in the secondary. We spent much of the offseason discussing how the offense fits Michael Vick's skill set. But so far (small sample size, granted), it looks like it fits Foles as well. As a rookie, he completed 60.8 percent of his passes and averaged 6.4 YPA. On 61 passes the past two weeks, those numbers are 67.2 percent and 8.9 YPA.

* That second number is a big one. Foles has hit on several downfield throws the past two weeks. The 47-yarder to Riley Cooper down the left sideline could have been a little more out in front, but Foles still allowed the receiver to make the play. The 36-yarder to DeSean Jackson was on-target, and perhaps what was most impressive was that Foles took a hit right after he released the ball. Both Foles and Vick have shown tremendous toughness in the past couple years, even when circumstances haven't always been great.

* The Eagles had the screen game working too. According to Pro Football Focus, Foles completed seven passes at or behind the line of scrimmage. Good patience and setup on the first play of the game, a 44-yard screen to LeSean McCoy.

* Other throws that stood out: Foles got the ball out quickly against the blitz and completed an 8-yarder to Damaris Johnson on the first drive. He found Jackson for 6 yards on 3rd-and-2 in the red zone. He found Zach Ertz for 6 yards on 3rd-and-5. He had a defensive lineman being driven back into his face, but stood tall and found Cooper for 17 yards on 3rd-and-15.

* Was Foles perfect? Of course not. It looked like he was late on a throw to Ertz down the seam in the first. He had multiple occasions where defenders had a hold of him, but Foles still tried to throw the ball. Those plays can turn into bad mistakes and turnovers quickly. Have to be a better decision-maker in those instances. And there were multiple occasions where the Bucs had unblocked defenders rushing. Chip Kelly said today some of those are on Foles, and he needs to get rid of the ball quicker when the protection is set up that way.

* The Eagles ran a lot of packaged plays (more on those later this week when the All-22 is released). Instead of the QB reading a defender and taking off on his own, Foles would often read a defender and decide run or pass.

"There's other ways that you can read the defense and other things you can get to," Jason Kelce said. "If you notice, we threw a lot more bubbles today. If the quarterback's not as dangerous a threat running it, if we have numbers outside, we'll probably take that a little bit more than trying to run the quarterback. Is that the way it's gonna be all the time with Nick in there? Who knows? But I think there's so many different things. And Chip and Pat [Shurmur] are both great at designing reads based on the personnel, who you want to get the ball and getting the ball to the guys who can make plays for you."

* The guess here is that Kelly will delay his QB decision for another week. He'll let Vick rest, play Foles against Dallas and then go from there. If Foles performs like he did against Tampa, though, he has a chance to stay put as the starter.

RUNNING BACKS

* The sign of a good running team is you can pick up yards on the ground when the opponent is expecting it. With 8:03 left in the fourth quarter, the Eagles called 11 straight run plays and chewed 5:29 off the clock. Granted, there was a key offsides penalty mixed in there, but still, it was an element of this offense we hadn't seen previously. McCoy had 10 of those carries, and overall he ran 25 times for 116 yards. As I wrote previously, it says something that McCoy turned in a 171-yard performance (rushing and receiving) and is barely in the headlines today. People have come to expect big things out of McCoy on a weekly basis, and he almost always delivers.

* McCoy has been very good as a receiver. He has 241 receiving yards and is averaging 16.1 yards per reception. He had two catches for 55 yards vs. Tampa.

* Bryce Brown continues to be up and down. He looked good on back-to-back runs of 7 and 4 yards on the first drive, but continued to bounce runs to the outside. Brown finished with 20 yards on five carries.

* Overall, the Eagles called 33 passes and 31 runs. But those numbers are a bit misleading. Until that final drive, they called 33 passes and 20 runs. With Foles back there, those screens can be viewed as an extension of the run game.

WIDE RECEIVERS

* We went in-depth on Jackson and Cooper earlier. Kelly was asked today about Jackson not really having been a threat in the red zone in the past.

"In my career here, he has," he said. "So I mean, I haven't looked at whatever they did with him in the past. I mean, we don't change our receivers when we get down inside. He's a real good route-runner, and he's a tough matchup down there. We've had that play in for four or five weeks. It was just somebody was stupid enough not to call it in the first couple of weeks and somebody was smart enough to call it on Sunday."

Overall, Jackson had six grabs on six targets for 64 yards and two TDs.

* Cooper finished with four grabs for 120 yards. I didn't notice it live, but he went with the old Brent Celek first-down gesture after a 12-yard catch on the first drive. Normally, given the Eagles' tempo, there's not time for that. Nice job by Cooper to squeeze it in.

* On the 47-yard TD, he made an excellent adjustment on the ball. And Cooper's 44-yard catch and run was one of the biggest plays of the game. The Eagles were clinging to a one-point lead and had a 2nd-and-10 from their own 20. Cooper made the grab, made a defender miss and then broke a tackle for the big gain.

* Jason Avant had four catches for 21 yards and did a nice job as a blocker. Damaris Johnson got into the game early, played eight snaps and had one catch for 8 yards. Jeff Maehl had one grab for 5.

TIGHT ENDS

* Kelly said today that Celek has been one of the more underrated or under-appreciated players on the team. He had just one catch for 10 yards, but performed well as a blocker. Celek threw the key block on McCoy's 4-yard run on 3rd-and-2 in the third. He pinned a defender inside and allowed McCoy to get the edge for 6 in the fourth. And he threw another good block on a 6-yard run by Brown.

* Ertz saw his snaps increase once again. He had three catches for 13 yards on six targets. Foles and Ertz seemed just a bit off on a couple incompletions, or he could have had a bigger game. On the 36-yard TD to Jackson, the Eagles showed run-action. Ertz came across the formation and threw a wham block as Foles settled in the pocket.

* The Eagles were in 12 personnel (one RB, two TEs, two WRs) on 19 of 64 snaps, or 29.7 percent of the time. They were in 11 personnel (one RB, one TE, three WRs) on 45 of 64 snaps, or 70.3 percent of the time.

OFFENSIVE LINE

* Overall, I thought protection was pretty good for the second week in a row. There were some mishaps, but Foles had time to throw and find receivers downfield. He was sacked just once on 33 pass plays.

* Jason Peters played well for the most part. He had some trouble with Daniel Te'o-Nesheim off the edge on Foles' 3-yard completion to Ertz in the first. On the first-quarter sack, the Eagles left Lavonte David unblocked, but Kelly said that was the plan.

"Got to get the ball out," he said, pointing to Foles on that play.

Peters drove Te'o-Nesheim off the ball on McCoy's 8-yard run in the second and manhandled a defender on McCoy's 4-yard run on a 3rd-and-2 run in the fourth. He left the game briefly with a shoulder issue, but then returned. Kelly said today he expects Peters to be limited tomorrow in practice.

* Evan Mathis was asked to pull quite a bit as the Eagles ran more "power" run plays than they usually do. And he had several impressive moments. Mathis drove a defender to the ground on McCoy's 5-yard run in the second. And once again on McCoy's 8-yard run. And a third time on McCoy's 10-yard run. That's not something you usually see so often from one player throughout the course of a game. Mathis and Peters seemed to have a miscommunication in the first as they both let a defensive lineman through, resulting in a 5-yard loss for McCoy. Overall, though, strong game for Mathis, especially in the run game.

* Jason Kelce bounced back nicely, showing off his athleticism in the run game and getting to second- and third-level defenders. He had the key block 20 yards downfield on McCoy's 44-yard screen in the first. He and Todd Herremans had the key blocks on Foles' QB draw that scored from 4 yards out. He got to the linebacker on McCoy's 8-yard run in the second, on McCoy's 10-yard run in the second and on his 19-yarder in the third. Kelce held up well in pass protection also.

* There were a few issues for Herremans, but I thought he played well too. He had the key block on the Foles touchdown run. Herremans and Kelce crushed a defender on the 11-yard screen to McCoy in the second. Excellent down block on McCoy's 19-yard run in the third. And good job on the linebacker on Brown's 6-yard run in the fourth. The issues? He got beat on Brown's 2-yard run in the second and had a bad sequence in the third where he was called for holding before allowing pressure on Foles on the very next play.

* The Eagles used a lot of unbalanced lines with Lane Johnson and Peters on the same side. Johnson probably had the most uneven performance of the Eagles' linemen. He drove a defender several yards downfield on an early 4-yard run by Brown. Excellent seal by Johnson on McCoy's 19-yard run in the third. The issues once again were in pass protection. Johnson gave up a QB hit on Foles' 6-yard completion to Ertz in the first. He got driven back into Foles' face on the 17-yard completion to Cooper. He gave up edge pressure late in the second as Foles got hit. And he had trouble with an inside move by the DE in the third. Overall, Johnson was fine, but the pass protection continues to be a bit of a work in progress.

* Allen Barbre filled in for Peters at left tackle in the second half. He did a great job in pass protection on the 47-yard bomb to Cooper, before giving up pressure on a third-down play in the third.

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  • Media Mike

    Great all around game and now we get to face the Cowboys without Ware!

    • GEAGLE

      Can’t wait to watch FOles n shady wipe the floor with them!!!

      Sure, they will score…but so will Saint Nick…and when the game hangs in the balance, they have Romo and we have a defense that’s starting to get a knack for battling all game long and then making things happen in the 4th…it’s going to create the perfect storm for Dallas getting ROMO’ed!!!!

      Nothing more poetic then Saint Nicholas wiping away all our past sins, lifting the curse of the Linc against the dirty stinkin cowboys, rising to first place after FOles gives Romo the Hiemlick maneuver late in the 4th!!!!

      • G_WallyHunter

        lmao Saint Nicholas, I like that, I’ll roll with it

    • UKEagle99

      The only problem with that is… if Foles plays lights out, then all the Vick supporters will say “but it was the Cowboys without Ware!”

      • 1972

        Cant you just be an EAGLE supporter? this isn’t politics.. God!!!!
        The vick supporters the Foles backers will you give it a break.
        If this was the locker rooms mentality the team would never win games

        • UKEagle99

          I think you needed to post this up a bit ;-)

          • 1972

            I didn’t mean you specifically, I was just responding to your post because I agree with you. That’s exactly what vick fans would say. And foles fans say the same thing. I’ve never heard so much hostility after an eagles win. Its ridiculous

          • aub32

            I don’t think there is anything wrong discussing the pros and cons of each QB and who fans would like to see and why. The problem comes from when certain fans feel the need to bash players and then throw insults at others just for having a different opinion. Ignorance then just breeds more ignorance. There’s enough good and bad on both players for this to be a good discussion. Both sides just need not be hostile.

          • #7

            Exactly. At the end of the day, we want the Eagles to win

          • UKEagle99

            I hear you. I’ll take the W. As one of the talking heads mentioned in the “what they’re saying section” “It’s a good problem to have”, or words to that effect.

            I don’t care who plays under centre this Sunday, I do know I absolutely detest losing to the Cowboys above all others (Giants run them close), should we lose this game on the play of the QB alone then the other one will get my vote!

        • Justin

          When I saw your post, it reminded me of this video.

          http://vimeo.com/73491063

          • 1972

            NICE!!!!!

          • Justin

            Right? Each new guy we draft, and each new free agent we sign, should have to sit down and watch that video.

  • Bill

    Foles was FANTASTIC…..Foles is now 2nd in NFL QB rating, just behind Peyton Manning. Foles completed 71% of his passes and NO turnovers, and Foles won his 2nd game in a row.
    WOW…what else does Foles have to do to be the starter?

    • Brandon Boykin, OLB

      I’m feeling Foles as starter too, but calm down. Second in NFL QB rating is horribly skewed. He’s only played 1 1/2 games. That’s like Jake Locker being the only QB not to throw an interception. He’s been out two games. Or Thad Lewis being an all-pro after one game.

      Let’s wait before we tout that stat.

    • morgan c

      Look, I’m on the record here supporting Foles, but easy there… those numbers are based on 1.5 games. Being second in QB rating is kind of irrelevant for that small a sample size. But yeah, hopefully he stays in there.

  • Media Mike

    Starting QB aside, I badly want to win the next three games. I doubt we’re sitting here 6-3, but we’re playing garbage over the next 3 weeks. No Ware and Murray for the Cowboys! Care to check the record of Dallas w/o Murray over the past two seasons?
    The Giants are still winless, pitiful, and followed by fans who are a giant bunch of losers.
    The Raiders………are the Raiders and QB’d by a mental midget of a scumbag.

  • RaiderDebo

    Foles looked great against an 0fer team. But this Cowboy game could decide the division. We already know how Foles plays against the East. If he starts next week, the Eagles are doomed. The Cowboys are praying he starts.

    • Stephen Stempo

      your name is jamarcus got screwed …

      • RaiderDebo

        Thanks Einstein. As I was saying, start Foles and the Eagles are doomed.

        • EaglePete

          because starting Vick has always meant success. We dont know very much about Foles at all

      • knighn

        A troll needs a good troll name.

  • Ron Swanson

    Not sure why leaving that guy unblocked on the sack was the plan. The guy was on Foles in about 1 second. How was he supposed to get the ball out?

    • TheGreatJB99

      Thats the game plan everyone uses… because it makes sense. If you have 5 blocking… and they send 6…. or if you have 6 blocking… and they send 7… you ALWAYS block the inside guys… which is exactly what Peters did. Foles has to account for the outside guy… amd get the ball out quick… which he did not.

      • hawaiieaglesfan

        Good eye

  • Johnny Domino

    “He had some trouble with Daniel Te’o-Nesheim”

    Who thought you’d ever read that?

    • Justin

      I didn’t even know he was still in the NFL.

  • GEAGLE

    That was the best offensive performance of this season and it came against the second best defense that we faced..
    ..
    a not only did St. Nick get all surgical on the ass of a tough defense that Brady and Brees struggled against…but when we needed to kill the clock and preserve the win, we pounded the ball down the throats of a very tough run defense, that knew we weren’t going to throw the ball, and we didn’t need Vicks threat to run for Shady to do something that hasn’t been done in 13 games since AP put up over 100 yards on them….Folesy orchestrated a thing of beauty!! Fly Folesy Fly

    • Andy124

      Can you imagine if Vick had played and put up just 24 (still a season high against the Bucs), throwing for 2, running for 1 with no turnovers, completing 70% of his passes, on the Bucs team that had held Brady and Brees to 23 an 18 respectively and had 3 pics combined against them… Then you or Token comes in and says,

      “Yeah, the Bucs really weren’t that good, in fact, they’re pretty crappy, and Vick only did well because they played zone instead of man. They practically gave it to him. Oh yeah, and MRSA.”

      My god, heads would explode.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        “My god, heads would explode.”

        So you didn’t hear how Vick’s game against SD wasn’t that good? Or Wash? On this board people were dismissing a 23/36 462 yards of total offense and 3 TDs as not “that” good. It was just okay.

        Come on.

        Fact is Tampa didn’t play a very good game. They DID NOT look like the “fierce” D they were touted as being. This has nothing to do with Foles.

        Foles played a great game. Tampa did not play a good game. These two thoughts are not mutually exclusive. Foles stepped up and took advantage of all the looks the D gave him…can’t ask for more than that.

        But let’s not act like folk aren’t dismissive of stellar performances if it’s done by a guy they don’t like.

        • GEAGLE

          Actually I even defended Vicks play against Denver..

          FOles makes 9 starters better…at best, Vick makes shady betterr….

          • aub32

            What 9 starters? DJax is still better with Vick. Cooper was better for one game. I doubt we see that from him on a consistent basis. He finally had a good match against a rookie battling an infection. (That’s not a knock on Foles. That’s a fact and a knock on Cooper.) Ertz was doing well with Vick. Ertz did well with Foles. His increase in production has more to do with him getting better as he gets more experience rather than who the QB is. (Sidenote: I’m really excited to see what Ertz can do in the latter portion of the season.) The O line is helped when Foles is in the pocket because they know where he will be. However, they are equally helped in the run game because they can leave guys unblocked and Vick can make a defender miss.

        • UKEagle99

          At some point you have to give credit to the coaches, scheme and the players executing it. They get lambasted enough when it doesn’t work! I don’t believe Tampa just happened to have an off day.I think it started with CK’s game plan and went all the way through to players executing. The Eagles made them look like they didn’t play a very good game.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Yes and No.

            Playing zone against this offense is asking to get your @ss handed to you. This isn’t news…it’s on film. Man against this team wouldn’t matter either IF we had a solid #2 w/r..we don’t, so smart money says you play man, keep a single safety high on Jax, sit on the short routes and stop Shady as best you can.

            What Tampa did was what a lot of stubborn coaches do…have irrational adherence to their particular football philosophy. And it cost them. That’s bad D no matter how you slice it.

          • Mike Calabrese

            That’s the premise of there defensive philosophy/scheme period. That is why they still call it the Tampa 2 (cover 2). Tampa Bay has been running this scheme since Kiffen was the coordinator and since he left they have continued to run it. The defense is designed to prevent big plays and they have a top run defense to support it. I don’t know exact stat but no RB has gone over a 100 yards against them in like 14 weeks until Shady.
            I agree playing man vs Eagles is the formula so far. However the pass to Cooper was man coverage bc he was one on one and Foles took advantage of the size & positioning matchup. Few teams have the coaching and personell to constantly change there philosophy based on matchups. Yes they do tweak the game plan week to week, but overall stick with there scheme. The Bears do not play man to man all game suddenly when they play certain teams. They rely on there players and some adjustments each week.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Yeah…I can agree with most of what you said.

            But they didn’t even execute their scheme properly. And I’m sorry, using Revis in zone requiring safety help is dumb…and yes I know that worked against most teams, but we aren’t most teams.

            Even Kiffken has shown some man recently. I’d be SUPER surprised if he didn’t show more man against us.

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      “That was the best offensive performance of this season”

      Sorry but SD still holds that record. Vick accounted for 462 yards of Offense by his lonesome. I don’t care what D that happened against…that’s impressive.

      • hawaiieaglesfan

        Did u see san diego destroy the colts monday night. Their d did not give up a touchdown. San diego is underrated in my opinion. They seem to be a complete team. So the eagles loss to them by only a field goal does not seem so bad now. They lost to a quality team.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          I did. Had Luck looking pretty damn mortal. San Diego ain’t playing around.

        • Mike Calabrese

          They also made the Terrell Pryor and Raiders look very good the week before when lost to them. SD is a weird team. They are under rated I agree. They seem to have that “get up” for hyped opponent mentality. They let ones they should win slip away. See losses to Raiders and Titans.
          That being said if Heyward-Bey can catch he goes 70 yards for a TD, Dwayne Allen and R. Wayne (very uncharacteristic) had key 3rd down drops. San Diego had a good game plan and ran the ball & owned time of possession. Prior to this game they had been a passing team most of season. They had a good game plan against us also week 2, so give there coaching staff credit. The Eagles lost that game on defense especially 3rd down. This loss at home will be one we look back at and hope doesn’t cost us in a weak division race. Billy Davis cost us that game.

      • 1972

        I understand your point of view, but it cant be the best performance if we lost. In this case the numbers don’t matter, kinda like the romo game. When it mattered most he threw a pick. When it mattered most in the chargers game vick got slammed knocked out of a play and left points on the field with another red zone failure.
        But on the other hand I don’t consider foles our savior either. This next game will show a lot about him I think . Good or bad, I just want to see if he can beat a good team

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          1. Wins and Losses are a team stat.

          2. “When it mattered most in the chargers game vick got slammed knocked out of a play and left points on the field with another red zone failure.”

          Um…getting “slammed” wasn’t Vick’s fault. The throw had to be made, the line whiffed…the ball hit Celek in the hands, and he got slammed.

          That game was a loss more because of a rookie coaching mistake than anything else.

          • aub32

            Not to mention missed FGs and LJ lining up in the wrong spot.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Oh I didn’t forget…just I think if all things else stays the same, we manage the clock better there we win or at least go into overtime.

          • 1972

            Do you and aub32 consider vick a great player?
            If so why? I was talking about the best offensive performance of the year. And IMO the best offensive performance of the year cant end in a loss.
            None of my posts has ever said I hate vick or want him replaced, but he’s not beyond criticism, no one is.
            Save all the bias posts for guys like Token Lol

          • aub32

            I don’t think you hate Vick. I was giving my opinion of your view on wins and losses, which is why I used Tebow and Romo.
            ….
            I don’t think Vick is a great player. Great players are great in any scheme. I think Vick has the potential to put on great performances. The way I see it, Vick and Foles have the same floor in this offense. Both QBs can move the ball. Both QBs can score points. Both QBs have cut down on the turnovers. The biggest difference is that Vick always has the potential to give you a wow game. He had 2 of those this season (Chargers and Skins). In the past this came at the cost of turnovers. We haven’t seen that this season. My thing is that in order to make the playoffs, we are going to have to steal a game or two. Vick can do that. Foles can score and do well, but I lack confidence in this defense that even 30 won’t be enough. Foles had everything go right and got 30. Vick had so much go wrong and got 31. That’s the difference between them.
            …..
            I think I should also mention I don’t think Foles will be the QB of the future here. He’s good. I just think Kelly will want someone ideal, somone who has the potential to do what Foles and Vick do well. In that case why show more of Foles and have his numbers come back down to Earth. His stock has never been higher than it is now.

          • 1972

            Good points all around..

            I don’t agree with everything going right with foles though. The shady fumble, the safety blitz that took us a half to solve. Vick got 3 turnovers in his win vs the skins, that seems like things going right to me. They both have their moments, lets see what foles does against a good team, then we’ll have more to go on

            I never was a fan of foles. this year he’s proven me wrong with his arm strength and decision making. One thing I really need to see from him is how he plays in inclement weather. I still have nightmares of those ducks he threw up against the bengals last year.

          • aub32

            I honestly forgot about the fumble, because I don’t blame that on Foles. I guess I meant I don’t remeber Foles having any key passes dropped or penalties nullifying big plays by Foles. His struggles seemed like the normal struggles through the course of the game. Every team is going to take a quarter or 2 to figure out.

            Foles has impressed me as well. I think he has a higher ceiling than guys like Feely and Kolb, who I am guilty of comparing him to. I just think that Kelly could do so much more if he could land a Wilson or Kaep type of QB. Vick would have been great in this offense a decade ago if Kelly could have kept him from being a knucklehead.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            “Great players are great in any scheme.”

            Disagree…great players (and this goes for greatness in general) MASTER the schemes they are in. Say Vick had had Kelly as his coach all his career…we wouldn’t be discussing how great he is or isn’t.

            Greatness is about mastery not about being good at a bunch of different things.

          • aub32

            There’s a difference between potential to be great and a great player. Vick is a freak. We may never see a player with that much talent again. However, he wasn’t great because of himself, not coaching. Vick has a cannon. He could have worked on his accuracy and been near or even above the level of someone like Flacco. He could have played in a drop back scheme and still excelled. However, he was a knucklehead. There is something to be said about the mental make up of a player in addition to physical gifts. Kelly’s system is great for Vick, but even if it had come along earlier, Vick would not have dedicated the time to master it.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            See, my point was IF he kept Reeves as a coach we’d be having a diff convo. Vick actually did listen to Reeves ( not so much Jim Mora) and the other coach who never got to play with – it’s not simply being a knucklehead (Farve was a mess) most guys that young and talented are knuckleheads – the right coach can get through that.

            SO no the right coach does make a difference. And Mora…well he wasn’t the right coach (they didn’t even practice pass blocking for goodness sake).

            Vick would have been fine with Kelly. Kelly has a way of making guys buy in…while also holding them accountable for their behaviour…McCoy wasn’t a fan…bet he is now.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I think Vick *could* be a great player (could have since he’s 33) Had Dan Reeves not been fired we’d be having a diff convo about Vick.

            With that said Vick is like Ben, Romo, Farve (yes I know he’s a hall of famer) – high risk high reward. His highs are high, but his lows are low.

            Also had Vick come out now, like some of the other young mobile QBs we’d also be having a diff convo about him. League didn’t know what to do with him..and contrary to what some may think..he really is a generational talent. RG3 is the only one who’s come close to touching his speed.

          • 1972

            I get what you’re saying, but the point gets lost when you compare him to a two time superbowl champion and a hall a famer. It doesn’t matter how fast he is, what he could have been, or what he is today.
            He doesn’t have big bens clutch gene, and he doesn’t have farves durability.
            If he had those two qualities he would be a hall of famer and there wouldn’t be a qb controversy.
            If he didn’t pull a hammy we wouldn’t be having this conversation

          • aub32

            I’d argue that he does have some clutch gene. You can point out the GB game, but that’s just one case. He’s had several game winning drives for this team, and he’s had other drives in which he gave the team the lead late and the D couldn’t hold. He may not be Eli 4th quarter in the SB clutch, but if you are saying he has no clutch gene then I must disagree with you.

        • aub32

          Romo put up 506 yards and 5 TDs in a loss. Tebow completed 2 passes in a win. Was the Tebow performance better than Romo’s because of the win? Win/loss is a bad stat for judging how well a QB played.

          • 1972

            I never said win loss was the stat to go with either. Its about situational play. Great players are usually guys with very good stats, that also come through in the biggest moments.

          • aub32

            Peyton Manning is a great player. He has plenty of examples where he couldn’t make the play in the biggest moments. On the other side Eli is not such a great player, but you could make the argument there’s no QB you’d rather have in the 4th quarter of a playoff game. I just think looking at a couple examples of when a QB “lost a game” is not indicative of their play. Vick was absolutely horrid against the Browns last year. However, in the waning moments he made the play and won the game. However, more often than not he’s going to lose if he plays like that, and he will more often win if he plays like he did against SD.

          • 1972

            The mannings are much better players than vick so I don’t really understand your point. Vick was and still is a very good qb that never reached his potential because he didn’t do the things necessary early in his career. This is by his own admission.
            And I have much more than a couple of examples to show why he hasn’t gotten over the hump. About 10 years worth

          • aub32

            My point is centered around Vick. This is why I am using other examples. I am disputing your words ” it cant be the best performance if we lost” and “Great players are usually guys with very good stats, that also come through in the biggest moments”. I think these are unfair and untrue. They apply to Vick in SD but I was debating your philosophy in general. (With the exception of the good stats part)

        • Andy124

          it cant be the best [offensive] performance if we lost.
          As a general rule, this would be a pretty crappy one. There’s probably other ways to factor that in like… If two performances are pretty close, the result of the game should factor in as a tie-breaker… or something like that. But just stating it as an absolute is too easy to refute imo.

          • 1972

            Your right Andy, I should have said in my opinion it cant be the best offensive performance if we lost. I thought it was implied.
            The entire argument is opinion based, this is why some people think Romo did enough to win the Denver game or Mcnabb did enough to win the Arizona championship game. I don’t..
            But if you really want to be technical they couldn’t have done enough because, well they loss lol..
            The very fact that they lost the game says that they didn’t do enough to win it.

        • Mike Calabrese

          Honestly I disagree that Vick had anything to do with San Diego loss. He played out of his head. That loss was on Billy Davis and the defense. Especially on 3rd down. The offense could not have done there job better.

          • 1972

            You cant absolve vick of having anything to do with the loss, that doesn’t make sense. You said the offense couldn’t have done a better job? That’s incorrect, because if they did a better job on their last possession they would have scored a td instead of a field goal.
            Let me be clear : I AM NOT BLAMING VICK FOR THE LOSS. What I said is he didn’t do enough to win the game.

          • Mike Calabrese

            I know what you mean. Trust me I am far from a Vick supporter. I really don’t love Foles either. I am still formulating an opinion on Foles. He has surprised me in some ways so far.

            I just was taking up for Vick bc Big Butt & other Vick supporters will take your statement into Vick getting no credit where credit is due. In this case rightly so IMO. The Chargers game was not on the offense, It was on defense on 3rd down especially. Also Chargers had a good game plan with holding ball until play clock ran out and letting Eagles expose there blitzes then adjusting play on field.

            I know it’s just your opinion; so that works for me. However to say that the offense didn’t do enough is flawed reasoning in that game in my opinion. I mean the offense did there part in that one. We can agree to disagree though that’s fine with me. I just wanted you to understand I am not disagreeing out of some undying love for Vick, Also just understand how it’s taken by Vick supporters. If Foles was in for Vick and had same game and results best believe that his supporters would be saying same thing.

          • 1972

            Big butt loves her man doesn’t she? lol
            I love her posts. Im usually down the middle so the vick or foles camp don’t kill me too much. When you fight so hard for a cause sometimes you lose perspective. I try to add that, I don’t have a horse in this race. Other than the eagles as an entire team

          • 1972

            Ill give you an example of not doing enough. Against Detroit last year, vick had a very good game. But late in the 4th quarter on 3rd down he over threw maclin we punted and Detroit drove down and sent the game into overtime that they eventually won. Now if he completed that pass, we could have run the clock out. Instead we punt and lose.
            One of the main jobs of a great qb is to make up for the inadequacies of other parts of the team.
            Brady went to a superbowl with the 32nd rank passing defense one year. I think, don’t quote me on that but their D was pretty bad lol

          • Mike Calabrese

            Yea I know what your saying, but against Detroit offense struggled much of game. That is on the offense and the QB. However the Chargers game the offense “did there part”. It’s different bc offense put up 511 yards. That should be enough.

            Your Brady example is ok, but go look at that season. The Patriots were ranked #32 defensively in yards. However were a middle of pack defense as far as points allowed and they created a good amount of turnovers. Also should we expect Vick, Foles or any QB to be able to do it bc Brady can?

            I am not saying you don’t make sense or are wrong bc it’s an opinion. I just think the comparison is not the same . The Saints last year is an example of an offense that did there part for the most part, but the defense was historically bad. Even Brees can’t do all by himself.

          • 1972

            The problem is we compare vick to players that are better than he is. Im guilty of it myself
            Brady
            manning
            big ben
            brees
            I’ve heard all of these names today, the fact is he’s not on those players level. So you have to keep looking until you find a player on that level. Im not saying Foles is that guy, but we already have enough years to know that vick isn’t the guy.
            So the bad defensive play, the receivers not getting open the dropped passes, all these excuses cant explain away the fact that he’s a great talent that didn’t maximize his potential

          • aub32

            That’s true but I will counter with two points. Those same comparisons are made of every QB, including Foles. The fact of the matter is that those guys are his peers. He has played against everyone of them.

            The second point I would argue is that Vick is as good as Flacco and Eli. They are all 3 very inconsistent and when hot are nearly unstoppable. They also have 3 rings between them. Vick will likely not do that because of the defense, but if we had say the Texans defense, I think Vick would have a chance to make the SB.

          • aub32

            If you’re waiting for Brady to walk through that door, I wouldn’t hold my breath. There’s a reason the guy is one of the greatest QBs of all time. It’s not fair to hold mere mortals to Brady’s standards.

          • 1972

            Very true. but you get my point lol
            I’m an eagle fan so the past still haunts me. My apologies for opening old wounds

      • Mike Calabrese

        You seriously can’t even just let a compliment toward Foles go bc you get all “butt hurt” about Vick. You said yesterday Foles played like a backup is suppose to. That’s definitely slightly understating a 300 yard day with 4 total TD’s and 0 turnovers. Good by starter or backup standards period in the NFL.
        Nobody knocking the SD performance by Vick. It was very good even excellent game by him. You can say all you want about being an Eagles fan vs a Vick fan but I think (bet most would agree) if Vick lost the starting job for some reason (not saying he should) you would be hoping Foles played bad and Eagles have to go back to Vick. Even if it meant they lost the game. There are some haters about Vick on here and some Foles idolizers. However you can bash them all you want for propping up Foles but that is the pot calling the kettle black.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          O_o

  • ICDogg

    Foles has earned the start vs Dallas. And an opportunity to seize the job if he continues showing he deserves it.

  • Andy

    Mccoy is on pace for like 2300 all purpose yards this season. That’s about 25th all time and 300 behind sproles all time record. Anyone care?

    • knighn

      LeSean McCoy is awesome. We all accept that. It would be like Peyton Manning putting up another 5 TD night. Ho hum. Now if Peyton goes off for like 8 TDs or LeSean would put in some crazy 300 yard or 3 TD night, then we’d really take notice!

    • B-West

      If you look at yards from scrimmage, which eliminates kick and punt return yardage, it gets even better. His current pace (2,322) would put him top 10 and among a pretty impressive list of names.

      As for who cares… I have to think some of the numbers this offense is going to put up will attract free agent offensive weapons. Maclin has to be thinking that Philly is by far the best place to get his career back on track now. I think part of the reason he wasn’t pushing for his contract extension is because he wasn’t terribly worried about staying in Philly.

      http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/yds_from_scrimmage_single_season.htm

  • anon

    hakeem on the trading block

    • Token

      No thanks. Always injured. Over rated.

      • aub32

        Here here.

    • EaglePete

      minus the injury problems Id love him on our team. Hes a good WR and has size, we could use that. Doubt theyd deal within division though.

      • aub32

        If they were willing to deal him in the division shouldn’t that tell us something

        • Andy124

          Since when has trading a player to another team within the division foreshadowed total disaster for that player? You know what I’m talking about.

          • aub32

            This time I actually looked for your trademarked wink. Though I guess this one was so obviously sarcasm that it was not needed.

  • 1972

    The funniest thing about this so called “controversy” is that none of us has a say in who the starter will be. Chip doesn’t care about our opinion. And honestly I don’t care about style points, black or white. As long as the guy in there WINS!! I’m good with that

  • aub32

    I have no problem starting Foles, but I believe we should start Vick against the Cowboys. Vick still has a higher ceiling than Foles in this offense, and with no D Ware or Spencer Vick should have the time to go down the field consistently against safeties that may be worse than our own. Foles put up 31, which was really good. However, I stay firm in believing had the Bucs had a better QB that would not have been enough. The Cowboys have a better QB and better receiving targets. Romo could look like Rivers did against this defense. Vick outplayed Rivers against a defense that we are starting to see was underrated. He could have easily put up 40+ had it not been for missed FGs, dropped TDs, and penalties. Against the Giants or Raiders, I’d have no problem with us starting Foles, but this is the Cowboys. We need someone who can get as hot as Romo.

  • Nah__Roots

    I can see Foles or Vick having success against another soft zone in the form of the Cowboys. The difference this time is Dallas shouldn’t have a problem shredding us too. Perhaps we’ll see if the red zone savior is up to the task of out-slingin’ Romo.

    • aub32

      Dallas doesn’t appear to have the same stubborness we saw in Tampa. They went man heavy against the Redskins and had Carr follow Garcon all over the field. I imagine they will do the same to DJax. However, their safeties suck and they made Reed, the TE, look like Jimmy Graham. This could be a huge game for Ertz.

  • #7

    I’m so sick of this Vick vs Foles crap. We all have worn this out. I’m going to try to support whoever is under center. That’s what we as fans are supposed to do anyway

    • Mike Calabrese

      Honestly I have done same thing. It just makes this season more enjoyable. No one on either Vick or Foles side will change there mind in most cases. It’s just same points being made 5 different ways by each side. It’s really become ridiculous debate and no one is going to budge. Time to enjoy the ride in a season that I really thought we would have no playoff chance at all.