Wake-Up Call: DeSean Breaks Back Out

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With the Eagles facing a 3rd-and-goal from the five-yard line DeSean Jackson lined up on the outside to the right of Nick Foles, locked up one-on-one with Prince Amukumara.

Film study on the Giants during the week revealed a tendency in situations like this, and they decided to try and take advantage.


"All week we kind of noticed in the red zone they do a great job of putting their hands on the wide receivers," said Jackson, "so we figured if I came out and went in and faked that move he would bite on it. "

Sure enough, as Jackson started breaking in Amukumara reached to get a hand on the receiver. But Jackson stopped, then switched into a fade pattern. Foles' pass was out of his hand before Jackson even made his move. The location and timing was spot on.

"That is a great play we have in our playbook," said Jackson. "Foles did a great job of just putting it up there and giving me a play on the ball."

That capped a very strong day for Jackson, who ended with seven grabs for 132 yards and a score.  The 26-year old now has 28 catches for 525 yards and three touchdowns. He has gone over 100 yards receiving in three of the first give games.

After two strong performances against Washington and San Diego to open the season, Jackson was relatively quiet against the Chiefs and Broncos the last two weeks.  More and more, defenses were playing man against this offense and it was proving effective. Jackson told reporters this week that he has been praying for man coverage his entire career, and needed to capitalize. On Sunday, he did.

"If you're going to play man coverage, we need to have guys that can exploit it," said Chip Kelly. "He's a threat no matter where he is, and if you're going to play man coverage then it's going to happen just a little bit quicker. I thought he did a really good job of giving himself an opportunity to make plays. We had some good run after the catch from him and then we had that big touchdown at the end off that double move."

Also of note is that touchdown catch came inside the 20. Jackson did not have any red zone catches through four games, and only had a pair of red-zone receptions in each of the last two years.

This time the scheme and execution worked, and Jackson celebrated with a little Victor Cruz salsa, which he did at a friend's request.

"Just messing around a little bit. Just having a little fun," said Jackson.

WHAT YOU MISSED

Kelly put his trust in Foles and was rewarded.

Sheil offers his instant observations from the Eagles win over the Giants.

The defense steps up late for Billy Davis.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING

Bob Ford says it should be Foles under center against Tampa.

Whether it is time for Nick Foles, who was very good in taking over for Vick, to get the start is beside the point, because this season isn't about sorting out the difference between those two quarterbacks. This season is about putting Chip Kelly's offensive vision into place for the players who will still be around when he gets the right quarterback to execute it. This season is also a classroom for Kelly to learn what will work and what will not work from his personal playbook of ideas...

If Kelly is committed to learning everything he can about the NFL and how his system fits it, he should give Vick the luxury of a week off, just to make sure the hamstring is healed and won't become a chronic problem. He should give himself the learning experience of designing a game plan for Foles, who brings a different set of advantages and disadvantages to the field.

Domo gives the Eagles a B-plus for their overall performance.

After failing to force a turnover the previous two games, the Eagles had four. Nick Foles was impressive in relief of Michael Vick. The only concern was the Eagles’ inability to run the ball after Vick went out of the game.

COMING UP

We'll speak to Kelly at 1 p.m.

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  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    That was a nice play. With that said throwing fades to midget receivers in the end zone is NOT a good idea. lol. A better defense and that ends badly.

    • nicksaenz1

      If it were a better defense the play wouldn’t have been practiced. Agree it’s not a smart route to dial up for Desean on the fly, but, they practiced that exact scenario and executed it flawlessly, which was nice for Foles considering it’s unlikely he was the QB practicing the play.

    • Broadcasting Wisdom

      Wasn’t a typical fade route like the jump balls to the corner that you see down in the endzone. Prince has been one of the Giants’ lone bright spots this season, and it’s a great route to run in one-on-one coverage (Foles’ specialty). Also a great route to get on film, because defenders will be weary about driving on Jackson’s hitch now, which might open up that route in the future.

  • dislikedisqus

    Pretty amazing that Foles could make a timing pass to DSean without the benefit of practicing with him.

    Brian Billick loved that route too.

  • Brandon Boykin, OLB

    Sheil, “three out of the first *five games.”

    • Richard Colton

      they won’t stop Blitzing your boy either. Davis is addicted to 168Lb NickelBlitzes.

  • aub32

    The Foles supporters will laud over this TD and make Foles seem like he’s the second coming. It was a good play by him but a better route by Jackson and call by Kelly. Foles threw to a spot. He did not read the defense. He didn’t go through his progressions. He executed a called play very very well but let’s not go overboard. I actually think his TD to Celeck was more impressive.

    • nicksaenz1

      I don’t think it’s fair to minimize it, either. It was a practiced play. He threw to a spot because of that. He trusted the receiver to make the play and he did. That’s all. I’m a Foles guy, and as I said last week, Vick’s done nothing to lose the job thus far, and Vick should continue to start. But again, don’t minimize the play Foles made just because of the argument that already started because he played well in Vick’s stead.

      • aub32

        I never minimized it. If you see what I wrote, I said Foles executed the play very well. He could have underthrown the ball or threw it out of the endzone. He did not. He got the TD. My comment was meant for fans that will see that pass and say things like “Foles is such a great thrower with anticipation and accuracy”. That’s not the case. He didn’t throw with anticipation. He didn’t have time to. He had one “read”, which I wouldn’t even call it that. He did very well in executing a play, but the majority of the credit should go to DJax, just as D. Thomas should get most the credit when he does the same for Peyton (albeit more a use of size than route running)

        • Broadcasting Wisdom

          Throwing the ball before the player is open is the definition of throwing with anticipation. Foles released that ball when Jackson was making his hitch move.

          • aub32

            How much anticipation does it take to throw a ball to a spot when that’s the only throw to be made. We clearly have different definitions of throwing with anticipation. Foles had no reads. He saw nothing. So there was nothing to anticipate. He threw the ball to the spot the play was designed to go. He did great in that regard. However, this isn’t a case where he’s scanning the enitre field and decides to throw a comeback or post knowing the WR is going to break on the ball.

          • nicksaenz1

            Just because it’s the only throw to make, given the designed nature of the play, doesn’t mean the throw is to be made. What if d-jax didn’t get the receiver to bite on the fake and he’s outside of d-jax? That doesn’t entail even the most minimal amount of reading the defender and making a decision to throw it? Great play all around, as I just noted above in response to you. That’s really all there is to it.

          • Dutch

            Great throw by Foles and execution in the route by Jackson, as was the throw to Celek. Foles did a great job in relief as was expected he would.

            The only glaring disappointment was the rushing attack in the second half. Foles negates the Eagles rushing attack and with no rushing attack this offense is doomed.

            The Giants were game planned for the Eagles rushing attack and when Foles came in the game the Giants were befuddled by the kid standing in the pocket and taking what was available.

          • ztom6

            The rushing attack wasn’t there in the first half either. It’s not necessarily a Foles vs. Vick thing. They ran just fine with Foles in the game in preseason and in his appearance in Denver. We need to see more before we can judge.

          • Dutch

            Shady averaged 4 yds per carry in the First Half, in the Second half, he gained -2 yds on 8 carries.

          • aub32

            Preseason? Are we going back to preseason. Shady had 4 yards per carry in the first half. Vick had over 11 ypc. How was the run game not there in the first?

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I guess it doesn’t count when Vick runs.

          • ztom6

            McCoy had < 4 ypc in the first half. And he was not consistently getting steady gains either. He had one good run and that's it. When Vick runs it's usually on a passing play… I thought we were talking about running plays.

          • aub32

            Actually Kelly said in his PC that several of those plays were designed QB runs, obviously that he would call with Vick and not with Foles. Also, the long run you are referring to is another big example of Vick’ effect on the running game. The DE was frozen on that play out of respect to Vick going out the back door.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            So those 7 carries for 79 yards were missed by you huh?

          • aub32

            They don’t count duh. They were done by Vick prior to Foles completeing a pass. Everything before that doesn’t matter.

          • ztom6

            A lot of those yards were in the passing game. The question was about the running game.

          • aub32

            Had Prince not bitten on the fake, the throw would have been incomplete just like it was in San Diego.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            That was good film study and a good move by DJax. Not mad at all.

          • nicksaenz1

            Thus: “Great play all around”. Which is all there is to it.

          • aub32

            Exactly. I just want Kelly and Jackson to get their credit. Fantastic fake and good film study to see and practice that exact situation.

          • ztom6

            if it’s that easy I’d like to see Vick do it more. Foles came in and did it several times… you might even say he seems to be good at it. That said, Vick has other dimensions to his game Foles lacks and Vick hasn’t really played bad enough to lose the job just yet. But this is a worthwhile conversation to have.

          • aub32

            Vick does it, but it’s overlooked because people focus more on his athletic ability. Yet he has thrown the ball very well outside of the Chiefs game. Foles did it and had the miracle of Celeck actually catching a pass and you make it seem like it’s all on him. How many times have we talked about TEs dropping catches? That Celeck catch yesterday was a lot more difficult than the Casey drop. Let’s be fair.

          • ztom6

            Vick does not seem to do it very often, that’s my point. He’s had his share of bad luck and gets too much blame, I agree. On the one hand people are getting too caught up in praising the things Foles seems to do better than Foles, because there’s a lot of things Foles can’t hope to match Vick in. On the other hand, Foles has shown enough that I would like to see more of him. Drafting a QB in the first round (the presumed strategy) is a big commitment and a big gamble. Foles is an emerging player, and there’s no time like the present to find out what we have in him.

          • aub32

            I do see that logic, but I offer the fact that many teams have been burned based on a flash here and there shown by a QB in limited action. See Kolb, Flynn, Fitzpatrick, Any Browns or Raiders QB of the last decade, Cassel, and the names go on and on. I’m not saying Foles will join that list of names, but I’d be lying if I said that I don’t want to risk missing out on a player with a higher ceiling than what I have seen of Foles thus far.

          • ztom6

            I agree, that’s why I’d like to see more. There’s definitely some things Foles could stand to get better at. I want to see if he can get better at some of them.

        • nicksaenz1

          You minimize it when you point out all of the things he didn’t do. The play was a designed play and didn’t require going through progressions. He definitely threw with anticipation since Desean hadn’t even broke his route, yet. I get why you’re saying it, though, so no need to continue. I’m not the Foles guy saying he deserves to start by virtue of Vick’s play, since that’s not the case as of now.

          • aub32

            So I’m minimizing the play because I’m not saying it was the greatest throw ever that encompassed everything a perfect throw could ever be. Have you seen some of the overboard reactions made about all the things this pass is not? I am simply stating credit should be given to Kelly and DJax, who in my opinion don’t get enough. Some fans killed Kelly for this same call a few weeks ago. Fans act like DJax still can’t be a weapon in the RZ. They showed otherwise yesterday. Excuse me because I choose to give some credit to guys other than the magnificient Foles who single handedly won us the game where he picked off Eli 3 times and threw 2 TD passes to himself. Hyperbole yes, but you get my point.

          • nicksaenz1

            The whole thing is hyperbole. No one called it the greatest throw ever. You’re reaction to me is simply frustration at the overreaction of others claiming that Foles should start because of it. It’s a great play all around by everyone involved, so yes, pointing out what’s not done is taking away from the play. It was great all around, leave it at that is what I’m saying.

          • aub32

            We will just have to disagree here. I don’t think it’s taking anything away from anyone by giving credit to other peoe who I feel have not gotten enough. I gave Foles his due. If this is not enough for well tough.

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      Yeah I’ve said that was more DeSean being DeSean than it was a great play by Foles. Basically Foles did what a lot of QBs do…put the ball in the general vicinity of their playmakers and hope they come down with the ball.

      He did. Credit to DJax and the sh*tty Giants defense. lol.

      • BlindChow

        I suspect your opinion of the play would differ if Vick had thrown that ball.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          No.

          I might have been slightly more impressed (though still thought it was an incredibly dumb play) simply b/c a midget QB would have thrown a fade in the end zone to a midget wide receiver and it didn’t end in disaster.

          • BlindChow

            I would pay good money to see an all-midget team compete in the NFL.

    • Broadcasting Wisdom

      Not going overboard, but we’ve been watching Vick for 3 years and he has never thrown a timing/touch pass like that in the red zone nor like the one to Celek. Against man-to-man coverage, Foles is the better quarterback if you want to throw the ball. If you think Vick’s running ability gives him the overall edge, fine, you might be right, but it is difficult to argue Vick is a better passer than Foles against man coverage.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        “Not going overboard, but we’ve been watching Vick for 3 years and he has never thrown a timing/touch pass like that in the red zone nor like the one to Celek.”

        - So that Avant play that he got clobbered on in the KC game didn’t happen?
        - He threw a beauty to Celek last week that was quickly dropped.
        - Let’s forget all the touch and timing passes he throws to DJax on a regular.

        Come on. Foles made a couple of nice throws…but let’s not go overboard here. lol

        • Broadcasting Wisdom

          Name one touch/timing pass he’s thrown to Jackson in the red zone in the past three years. Vick’s got a cannon, and that throw to Ertz in the first half was one of his finest throws of the past three years, but you get into the red zone, he’s below average.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            So it only counts if it’s thrown to DeSean?

          • aub32

            Appareantly. Though I could have sworn a couple weeks ago fans were screaming that a fade to DJax was stupid. Now it works once and it’s Vick’s fault he never completed something we never ran under Reid.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            “Though I could have sworn a couple weeks ago fans were screaming that a fade to DJax was stupid”

            I’m still saying a fade to DJax is dumb as hell. I don’t ever want to see one again. That was luck beyond luck (yay for a crap Giants offense). Fades in the endzone to tiny receivers…never a good idea.

          • Broadcasting Wisdom

            Or if it’s in the actual red zone… Vick throws a gorgeous deep ball. He’s an other-worldy runner. But he’s not a red zone QB or a quick, short passing, anticipatory QB. I happen to think you win in the NFL these days with the quick timing accurate anticipatory passes, as opposed to the big play that Vick undeniably can produce more often often than Foles. Others can disagree, which is fine. The fact remains: Through 5 games and a couple dozen red zone trips, Vick has one red zone touchdown, that beautiful dart to everyone’s favorite whipping boy, Riley Cooper.

          • aub32

            Though I agree that timing and anticipation are big, they aren’t the only thing that wins. Flacco proved last year that you can win it all as a big play guy. Look at his playoff run. It wasn’t filled with timing routes. He chucked the ball down the field and picked up yards in chunks. Also, let’s not act like a one route play takes great anticipation. Foles knew where the ball had to be thrown before the snap. Also, you dismmis the fact Vick has had multiple TD passes dropped in the RZ, but that’s on Vick right?

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I can think of 3 red dzone TDs that were dropped by receivers off the top of my head. I guess that was Vick’s fault too?

          • Dutch

            Then you would have to show in the 7 games from 2012 where Foles in the Red Zone was productive to support your allegations .

            I don’t remember in the last 7 years where the Eagles were productive in the Red Zone.

          • Bdawk20

            So you are bringing up the throw Vick had to Avant in KC, when he failed to make a single play after that? C’mon man, terrible.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            And you’re changing the subject…the discussion was about touch/timing passes that apparently Vick NEVER makes and Foles is a GENIUS at making.

          • Bdawk20

            Vick doesn’t make those throws consistently. Putting absolutes around anything weakens your argument. Vick turns to his feet first and foremost which doesn’t sustain, ever. Hence why Vick has 2 playoff wins over his entire career. And they all came during the same year. Stop defending him, he’s not that good.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            What absolutes am I making?

            Foles throws those balls consistently?

            The third quarter would suggest otherwise.

          • Bdawk20

            ‘Apparently Vick NEVER makes’ is an absolute. Chip Kelly said this morning that the Giants did not do anything differently when Foles was in vs. Vick. He also then said that his gameplan did not change, except he called more throws. He also said that they do not call many designed QB runs. So, do the math. The defensive game plan did not change, Kelly called more passes, and he didn’t call QB runs any differently. Vick was 6/14 with 0 completions in the first quarter, Foles was 16/25 with 2 TD’s. All things held equal, Foles ran this offense better because he made throws that Vick cannot.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            “Apparently Vick NEVER makes’ is an absolute.”

            Um…I can point our several people who said…”Vick doesn’t make those throws.” Full stop.

            That’s not my argument…just repeating the argument of others.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            “Chip Kelly said this morning that the Giants did not do anything differently when Foles was in vs. Vick”

            -The Giants let up on sitting on the short routes at the end of the first. But QUICKLY went back to doing that once in the third. Hence Foles lack of productivity that quarter.

            “He also then said that his gameplan did not change, except he called more throws.”

            - Maybe he called more passes ’cause the run game doesn’t work with Foles in the game.

            “Foles was 16/25 with 2 TD’s”

            - Yes…Foles put up 20 pts in slightly ore than a half and given a short field. Vick put up 16 points in little less than a half minus a short field.

            “Foles ran this offense better because he made throws that Vick cannot.”

            - Or he benefited from defensive turnovers and stymied the offense ’cause the run game goes to pot when he’s in the game.
            You seem to forget that Keilly likes to RUN the ball. Calling more passes ain’t really his type of offense.
            - Oh and I guess Foles makes that 56 yarder to DJax? Yeah. I’m sure he could make that throw ALL day.

          • ztom6

            Foles didn’t look all that bad in the 3rd quarter from where I was sitting. A few balls that could have been caught but weren’t, one play where McCoy stumbled after the catch where he could have easily picked up a first down. Vick’s had plenty of bad luck like that as well but to be fair he’s also looked a lot worse than Foles did in the 3rd quarter, even in this same game. Not so much pounding the table for Foles here, but right now it’s an open conversation and Foles has youth on his side.

          • aub32

            Foles had some really bad moments in the 3rd. He made up for them later, but come on. What about the 3rd down where he just stood forever only to be sacked without even appearing to be trying to look downfield. I even had Foles who were saying to me how wrong they were about him until he took advantage of the short fields that the D gave him, which I said has been his thing since last season.

          • ztom6

            we can play “what about this play? what about that play?” all day if we want. Overall Foles made the most of his opportunity and has shown significant improvements as a player since his rookie year. I don’t think it’s crazy at all to want to see more of him.

          • aub32

            He has improved, and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of him if we were out of the mix. However, we are currently tied for first in our division and Vick still gives us the best chance to win. The D won’t always get 3 INTs in the 4th quarter. We are going to need this run game. Vick makes a huge difference there. He also has been better than his passing numbers would indicate. (If only Celeck would catch like that for Vick) Vick has also protected the ball for the most part.

          • aub32

            Ok I tried not to bring this up because I didn’t want to bash Foles, but didn’t he try that same exact play against the Chargers and threw the ball out of the endzone. Didn’t we all say what a dumb idea it was to throw a fade to the smallest guy on the field. Now Foles is great at timing routes because DJax got the pitiful Prince to bite on a double move? Didn’t Vick didn’t have any fades to Jackson because before Kelly we didn’t run fades to Jackson. Also, with Vick in the game, what’s a higher percentage play? Read option in which McCoy or Vick can run the ball in for 6 or a fade to the shortest guy on the field?

          • BlindChow

            To be fair to Foles, in the Chargers game he was coming in cold.

        • morgan c

          #blindlyloyalvicklover

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            What did I say that was wrong?

            - He didn’t throw a beauty to Avant?
            - He didn’t throw a beauty to Celek that was dropped last week.
            - He doesn’t make touch/timing passes to DJax on a regular?

            But yeah..stating facts somehow equal loyal vick lover. lol

      • aub32

        I’m sorry didn’t Vick have a gorgeous touch pass to Avant against the Chiefs who were playing man coverage? Some of you forget things so easily to go with the overall narrative that the media would like you to buy in to. Vick is …. Foles is ……. Vick is not Peyton, but he has made several touch passes for either big gains or TDs. Foles has one in which that was his only read and fans pretend Vick has played RB thus far this season.

        • BlindChow

          I don’t remember the Avant play in the KC game, but I remember the one in yesterday’s game where Avant was wide open in the end zone and Vick just missed.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            So ’cause you don’t remember it it didn’t happen?

            You remember the one Celek dropped lase week?

          • BlindChow

            Who said it didn’t happen?

          • aub32

            HAHAHAHAHAHA “So ’cause you don’t remember it it didn’t happen?” That’s too funny. How is that even a legit argument. Yet people get on us for not being objective. SMH.

          • Bdawk20

            You are just arguing 2 throws over and over again from the first 4 games. Foles made 2 throws in one half! Vick runs when guys are covered, which gets yards, but doesn’t teach him a damn thing about becoming a better QB. Foles throws when guys are covered, but throws to where only the receiver can get to it and they make the plays. It is proven in the history of the NFL that offenses are more successful when the QB can do the latter, because running QB’s eventually have to make those throws to win the game, and they can’t do it because they rely on their feet instead.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            “You are just arguing 2 throws over and over again from the first 4 games”

            I mean I could keep going:

            - There were at least two to DJax in the Chargers game.
            - A perfectly placed ball to Cooper that he dropped in the KC game.
            - A nice one to DJax in the end zone that he dropped last week.

            Do I need to continue?

          • Bdawk20

            Sure, continue along. How about that time that Vick ran instead of passing it? How about that time that Vick ran instead of passing it? How about that time that Vick ran instead of passing it? How about that time that Vick ran instead of passing it?

          • aub32

            So what if he ran? Vick was getting 11 yards a pop yesterday and didn’t take a single big hit. So he should instead take a 3-4 yard gain to the RB. What happened to taking what the defense gives you? I guess that only applies when prototypical pocket passers do something huh. God forbid Vick get a first down with his legs. Everyone knows those yards don’t count.

          • Bdawk20

            Because running as a QB is NOT sustainable. The defense will stop you from doing that when it counts as they adjust (the good ones anyway) and then you have to make a tough throw. Vick CANNOT make those throws. That is why he only has 2 playoff wins. When his receivers are covered and the defense contains him, he cannot make a play.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Tell that to the guy who has been a starting QB for 11 years.

          • Bdawk20

            I can also tell it to the guy who runs the offense better than a starting QB for 11 years and is only in his 2nd season and isn’t close a top prospect by any means. The fact that Foles can run this offense better than, or for the sake of argument, JUST AS WELL AS, an 11 year veteran should tell you something.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            You still haven’t shown were Foles runs the offense better.

            - He got a field goal in the two minute offense.
            - He got a field goal in all of the third.
            - He was give 3 turnovers in the 4th and capitalized on two.

            So where’s the better?

          • Token

            He has more redzone TDs in 2 quarters than Vick does on in 4 and a half games.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            The Celek throw wasn’t in the red zone. Pretty sure it was outside the 20…

            The DeSean one was.

            So no…that’s not particularly accurate.

          • Andy124

            OK, so Foles has more redzone touchdown passes this season in just over 2 quarters than Vick does in 4 and a half games. Now it’s accurate.

          • Dutch

            Celek’s pass was a 28 yard touchdown toss, that’s not a red zone reception. The Eagles had two passing touchdown, 28 and 5 yds, and a Shady 1 yard run, and 5 field goals.

            You seem to be yeasting up Foles production from yesterday to fit your argument. The kid played well as an emergency back up, a fresh QB that the Giants had not prepared to play. He did well under the circumstance,

            Let’s hold off on his evaluations until he plays the Bucs who aren’t likely to be surprised by his appearance. This is a game the Eagles should win and it’s expected if Foles starts he’ll look good managing this contest.

            Foles should start if for only that a hamstring injury is unpredictable. Vick should sit out this contest to properly heel and take treatment.

            If Foles doesn’t start and Vick goes out to play not 100% that will say a lot about Kelly’s plans for Foles next season.

          • Richard Colton

            I’m glad you called him out for yeasting up Foles’ production. I was about to do it myself.

          • Andy124

            See replies above (or below depending on your sort).

          • Richard Colton

            Now you’re double-yeasting.

          • Andy124

            Nah. But if you really wanted to stick to your guns you should have gone for a yeast infection joke there. :)

          • Richard Colton

            What does YEASTING even mean? I feel like Im taking crazy pills.

          • Andy124

            You add yeast to dough to make it rise, to increase its volume, inflate it if you will.

            Presumably, yeasting is being used to mean I’m inflating Foles’s redzone production to “fit my argument”.

            Funny thing is, I wasn’t making any kind of argument about the redzone that I needed to inflate. Just being a smartass with a stat where it was apparent a couple people incorrectly asserting its innaccuracy had forgotten about the previous game already. I fully acknowledge the reduced significance of garbage time.

          • aub32

            You knew tensions were going to be high after the result of yesterday’s game. So you should have known better than to try and make jokes. What do you think this is? A game? No. This is a discusion about a game. Totally different.

          • Andy124

            Tensions high after a win. It’s funny because it’s true.

          • Richard Colton

            Denied. Dutch isn’t allowed to make up new words until he learns the ones we already have.

          • Andy124

            I’m not yeasting up anything. His touchdown pass to Maehl was from the redzone. That’s why I said “just over two quarters” and “more touchdown passes this season.”

          • aub32

            REALLY?!?!?!?!? You include that garbage TD against backups. You just lost all credibility here.

          • Andy124

            Read the context. Token said Foles has more redzone touchdowns than Vick, almost certainly because he read that stat somewhere. He was called out for being wrong. I tweaked his wording to better reflect the stat he was relaying, which is simply a fact.

            Not my fault you all didn’t remember all the facts.

          • aub32

            Talk about a skewed stat. So Vick’s RZ rushing TDs mean nothing? The dropped RZ would be TDs mean nothing. Come on dude. You’re just trying to get a rise out of people on a Monday.

          • nicksaenz1

            It’s working.

          • aub32

            That’s true.

          • Bdawk20

            Uhh, Vick completing 6 passes in two halves against the worst defense in the league and having the same number of incompletions as Foles despite Foles throwing the ball double digit more times than him…

          • Andy124

            *2 quarters, not halves.
            You forgot to mention that Foles had more completions in the 1:25 of game time that he played in the 2nd quarter than Vick had in the game.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            And then he was shutdown in the 3rd.

          • Andy124

            Slowed down. Shut down is holding a quarterback to 0 completions for 0 yards.
            I’ll take 5/10 for 60 yards over 0/4 for 0 yards any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

            Besides, I’d say that’s more than outweighed by the 7 completions in 1:25 vs. 6 completions in 28:35.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Really ’cause Vick was good for 3 in the first and so was Foles in the third.

            Shut down…you mean the guy who put 79 yards on the ground? So I guess only passing yards count.

          • Andy124

            For quarterbacks, they count a helluva lot more than rushing yards.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Really?

            So I guess Vick’s rushing TDs count less than his passing ones. Oh wait…

          • aub32

            Of course. Didn’t you see Peyton run in for a RZ TD last night. He was clearly disappointed in himself having to stoop to Vick’s level.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            6 completions in two halves for 104 yards with an additional 79 yards on the ground…so 184 total yards in slightly less than two halves.

            Compared to 197 yards in slightly more than two halves.

            Yeah. That’s some serious outplaying there.

          • Dutch

            You’re counting drops in Vick’s 6 completions. Sure drops by Jackson, Ertz and Avant.

          • aub32

            Really? I thought it’s because he had a O line coach for a DC. You are missing the point with Vick. He’s a temporary solution for this and maybe next year. Thus far he has made the throws. However, receivers haven’t always made the catches. He has also missed throws, but name me one QB that hasn’t. He’s not a perfect passer, but neither is Foles or Barkley. The difference is Vick can create with his legs. So he doesn’t throw the 2-4 yard completion because “up to this point this season” his legs have proven to be a much more productive option. If defenses allow that, what’s wrong with taking it. He has also been worlds better when it comes to protecting himself. So I don’t see the problem. Was Foles going to beat the Cheifs, Chargers, or Broncos? I highly doubt it.

          • Bdawk20

            Definitely not the Broncos, but the Chiefs and the beginning of the GIants game were games that Foles could have won (or did win). Vick is a temporary solution, but the argument is that Vick just isn’t that good.

          • Bdawk20

            And the Eagles defense got WORSE after Juan Castillo left. Say what you will about him, but he has given us the best defense we have had over the past 2 seasons.

          • aub32

            HAHAHAHAHA he gave us the best defense over the past 2 seasons. Really?!?! That’s you argument. He also happened to be the only DC that was given a full season with this defense and arguably the most talent. What was Bowles supposed to do. He took over a bad D over a quarter of the way into the season. Davis had the terrific task of turning this into a 3-4 team. Juan was terrible. So what if he wasn’t as terrible. He was still terrible and his defense is why we missed the playoffs in 2011.

          • Dutch

            I don’t think playing Foles is a bad idea. If he’s a starter for any length of time we are assured of being in a good position to draft one of the much talked about collegiate stars in April. Even a winning season of 8 or 9 wins guarantees Vick’s gone when the season is done despite having a pretty solid season so far.

            All of this discussion is a moot point considering the Bucs are up next and it’s sincerely my hope that Foles starts this week to give Vick’s hamstring a rest and time to heel. The heavy hitters on the Eagles schedule have been satisfied now the Eagles get into the marginal teams on their schedule.

            We’ll see if this Foles is a NFL Quarterback discussion rings true this week for sure against Revis and Goldston. I think Foles had a mildly success game against the Bucs last year if he’s of starting quality next week will be an accurate assessment. I don’t see Revis playing Jackson, so Jackson should be in one on one coverage again, but more importantly is lets see if any of the other Eagles receivers can get substantial playmaking opportunity.

          • aub32

            How did you manage to take the biggest shot at Foles that I’ve seen today and not be mobbed by the Foles contingent? I must learn your ways.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Okay so that wasn’t just me who thought that was the sweetest insult on this thread yet. lol

            He managed it though b/c of this “I don’t think playing Foles is a bad idea.” Say that before your insult and folk won’t notice.

            lol

          • aub32

            I just think it’s funny that you and I have been complimentary of Foles but offering tempered expectations. Dutch just roasted Foles and…….crickets.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            - The 56 yarder to DJax in this game.

            I guess that one doesn’t count ’cause Foles didn’t throw it.

          • Bdawk20

            Right, because how was that a timing pattern? Brandon Weeden throws for completions that long.

          • aub32

            So only short routes can be thrown with anticipation?

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I mean d@mn. lol

          • Bdawk20

            Yes, actually, Because that requires you to make a decision before the receiver makes their break. On long throws, you are not anticipating anything. The receiver is set in his pattern and you are throwing it to lead him vs. hit from east to west where he hasn’t broken towards yet.

          • aub32

            So had DeSean ran the exact same double move in the middle of the field for a 30-50 yard game, then it doesn’t count as anticipation? That makes no sense whatsoever.

          • Richard Colton

            eshhh. I want Vick to start as long as the Eagles are in the race, but that’s not a play I would point to. IMO – his worst decision of the day. Jackson was covered pretty well and there was safety help. Should have been an interception.

          • aub32

            It was a beauty of a throw with your best receiver behind his man. How can so many fans complain about Vick’s ability to fit balls into tight windows, but then say he made a dumb decision when he actually fits a ball into a tight window.

          • Andy124

            I thought it was a good throw. Risky. Did NOT go through the defender’s hands, but he didn’t play the ball particularly well. If he had played it better, maybe it’s a pick. Situations like that I’m inclined to let the result of the play speak for itself. Therefore, good pass.

          • aub32

            Thanks. I get so tired of when other QBs get praised by Eagles’ fans because they give players chances to make play, yet when it’s our QB it’s a dumb decision. He wasn’t double covered. There was room away from the safety. It was a high difficulty pass and he completed it. What’s not to be happy about?

          • Richard Colton

            risky = good? I’m not following the logic.

          • Andy124

            The risk paid off.

            Put it this way, if Foles completed that pass I’d be jumping up and down. Wouldn’t be objective if I didn’t give credit when Vick completes it.

          • Richard Colton

            are we talking about the same play AUB? It was a little under thrown. The defender really should have picked it off. It looked like there was safety help (I’ll wait for the all-22) but right away the announcers were screaming that the ball should have been an int.

            Vick made some good plays on Sunday, and like I said, he needs to be the starter as long as we have a shot at this thing, but that play wasn’t one of the good ones. It was lucky.

          • aub32

            The play had a chance to be picked, but landed perfectly in DeSean’s lap. A lot of high difficult passes are going to have a chance to be picked or deflected. That’s what makes them difficult. This throw was completely different from some of the dumb plays he had last season where he was throwing into double coverage. You may disagree, but I thought it was a great play by Vick to make a high difficult throw in a tight window well down the field.

          • Richard Colton

            Fairly put. Here’s why I disagree: if DeSean was doubled (hurry up w/ All 22 Sheil) that tells me that there was single coverage somewhere else. That would have been a better pass. Or – overthrow the ball so the only possibility is an incompletion or reception – not a “chance to be picked or deflected.” Throwing the ball away is a better read than forcing it into double coverage. Lastly, not a fan on DeSean on an under thrown ball or a jump ball – he’s not big enough to out fight a CB.

          • aub32

            There’s a difference between bracketed and doubled. If Vick looks off the safety, which I believe he did, then that gives him a step to complete the pass behind the CB and in front of the safety. Also, this wasn’t a jump ball as Jackson didn’t even have to break stride to catch it. Also, I think it’s a silly notion that Vick should always take the underneath route instead of taking any risk whatsoever. Sure it work for A. Smith, but he has a defense. Look how well that type of play works for guys like Ponder and Gabbert. You have to pull the trigger some times.

          • Richard Colton

            the way you say it makes sense, but that isn’t the throw he made. I suspect when Sheil/Tim do the breakdown, they’ll call it a bad throw or a bad choice. But like I said, I suspect our disagreement stems from the amount of risk we’re willing to accept on any given play.

          • aub32

            Agreed, and I may be wrong on the coverage. It happens. Though I do prefer my QB to make plays like that from time to time instead of always looking to check it down *cough* Kolb *cough*

          • Richard Colton

            hahaha. Kolb for DRC, the rare NFL trade that hurts both teams

          • aub32

            I wouldn’t say hurt. You forget they also, stupidly gave us their second which we turned into Curry and Boykin. So I think we still came out much better in that deal.

          • ztom6

            Decision was fine… not sure why there are several people praising it as an outstanding throw. It was clearly underthrown and the defender had a much better chance to make a play on it than he should have. But, in the interest of fairness, I’ve yet to see Foles make a throw like that, so I’m not trying to make this another Foles vs. Vick thing. It was a perfect example of the kind of throw Vick brings to the table.

          • Token

            Its funny, you always throw out the its a team type comments, yet the only person you really talk about, ever, is Vick.

            Cant wait til this guy is off the team. Ill never get whats so captivating about him to people, but id say maybe you should pick better people to idolize.

          • Adam

            Everything that Vick does bad is everyone else’s fault.

          • Richard Colton

            only to blindly loyal fanboys who don’t care about the Eagles winning. They’re easy to spot because they’ve been making the exact same excuses for 13 years.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Says the guy who talks about Vick non-stop?

          • Pennguino

            I remember the play. It was a good read by Vick to see Celek start to come open. It was a pass throw with anticipation. The ball hit Celek in the hands and he dropped it. I can honestly see that.

            But…

            This is what I also see. I see a tightly covered TE that as soon as he turns and gets open he has a 90 MPH fast ball incoming. The ball was on him in a heartbeat. He barely had time to react to the trajectory and speed.

            I also see decision making or the lack there of. This is a third down play. Yes, I understand you have to try and score to keep up with Peyton. But third down. Celek is covered. There is no guarantee that Celek will score. He has a first down. Look at Avant. WIDE open, best hands on the team, and he is at the first down marker. That is a pitch and catch.

            This is why Vick never has, and never will be a great QB. Decision making. Exciting, yes but not great. Was it a good play by Vick? Yes! I am not taking anything away from the play. But was it the best play? No.

            http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tfAuh4YxlX0/Uk4XxbukA4I/AAAAAAAAAVc/24BTAT0T4T4/s1600/2-9.jpg

          • aub32

            I have to disagree with your last point. So what if he was covered. The pass was neither defended nor was Celeck hit and dropped the ball as a result. He dropped a pass he should have caught. The same result happens whether Avant drops the pass or Celeck. You can’t fault any QB for drops. That’s why they are ruled drops.

          • Pennguino

            I agree with what you are saying. He should have caught it. Look at Vick’s stance. He is arched and fully cocked. There is a ton of velocity and torque coming Brent’s way. Vick increases the difficulty of the play.

            He would have been better off throwing at 70-80 percent strength and hitting Avant in stride with RAC possibility. There is no RAC with Celek.

      • Dutch

        The initial Vick throw to Ertz in the End Zone was the exact same route,ball and placement Celek caught, Ertz dropped the ball which hit him in his hands. Jackson dropped a crossing route, as did Avant and both were against Man to Man coverage.

        the Eagles have no chance at winning without a run game, and Foles fools no defense so it’s easy to take Shady out of the attack. The aim is to make Foles keep the ball on the option, which is one of the most productive plays in the Eagels arsenal.

        No way Foles is the better passer. Foles could have never hit the Vick to DeSean 56 yarder. That takes nothing away from his antic yesterday to hit underneath and the shot to Celek, which were perfect against a run defending team like the Giants were committed to defend.

        For Foles to be effective and consistent he would need receivers like he threw to at Arizona, Boldin like or someone like Dez Bryant, just put the ball up and the receiver can go make a play on anything close. The Jackson touch down was stunning in that Jackson went and made a play on the ball not thrown directly to him.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          “The Jackson touch down was stunning in that Jackson went and made a play on the ball not thrown directly to him.”

          EXACTLY.

          But I wouldn’t test that against a better defense.

          • Dutch

            Well we are talking about the Giants, who give up 30 points a game. What doesn’t work against them?

            The Eagles secondary isn’t that much better. At the bottom of the barrel is the Eagles, Giants and Redskins in that order.

            I wouldn’t get overly excited the fact remains the Giants despite being weak pass defenders, still managed to shut out and check the Eagles receivers not named Jackson. I’ll take the win.

        • nicksaenz1

          Who were his Boldin/Bryant-like receivers at Arizona?

          • Dutch

            Juron Criner (1,233 yards 11 TDs) & David Douglas (515 yards five TDs), and Dan Buckner who transferred from Texas.

          • nicksaenz1

            Okay, I didn’t think he threw to receivers who do anything on the NFL level. You shouldn’t compare them to HOF caliber players.

  • BlindChow

    So Jackson calls him “Foles” and not “Nick?”

    • nicksaenz1

      He only lets the coaches use his first name.

  • Adam

    Great part about that win is we get to watch all the Vick fans come out swinging because Foles played a good game. Hey Vick lovers, a compliment towards Foles isn’t a shot at Vick. Relax.

    • JofreyRice

      These arguments are sooooo boring, and totally predictable. I’d love to see all the “Team Vick” and “Team Foles” folks just go away.

      • Richard Colton

        I’m on Team Edward, where should I sit?

        • nicksaenz1

          On the sideline, with Team Jacob

      • cliff henny

        12 more weeks…then sweat out Rosebuds future qb slection.

        • All In Eagles

          What QB selection though? If we finish with 6 wins we aren’t getting jack as far as good QB’s go in the draft.

          • BlindChow

            There will be a lot of good QB’s in the draft. Not all good QB’s were top 5 picks.

          • All In Eagles

            Ok, which one? I’m speaking about what the Eagles could get in the middle of round 1 without moving up.

          • aub32

            Manziel HAHAHA

          • All In Eagles

            Ha, ok, not happening. Next?

          • aub32

            Tough room. Though there are other QBs I’d prefer, I can’t see why so many are dead set against a Manziel-Kelly union.

          • cliff henny

            i’m warming up to idea. guy is off the charts athletic, is showing better arm this yr and all the bs he went thru-alot by his own doing but still- he isnt wilting from the spotlight. rather have to calm down his street balling nature than coach up a weakness. if we can get thay WR he’s throwing to evans i think, that’d be cherry

          • cliff henny

            one advantage eagles have is running spread, we’ll grade the qbs differently than most of the teams with qb needs. brdgewater is gone, but just dont know how far a marioti or manziel will slip…or boyd. we might only need to move from 14-18 range to 8-10 – guessing a 3rd will do that- to get kelly’s guy. personally, i’d give the whole draft to get kelly his guy. dont bring him in, 5 yrs 35m, and not get him his perfect qb. if they chose another route, say foles/barkley, that’s fine. he get no leeway from once he picks qb next spring.
            .

          • All In Eagles

            Good point. But he gets not even a year leeway with a fresh rook under center? I’m thinking there will be plenty of backtracking if/when a rook struggles.

          • cliff henny

            yeah…guess i meant ‘he’s officially on the clock’. for me, if kelly goes 2-14, so what. eagles have in area of 70m in contracts coming off or easily get out from under at end of season. kelly came in 1 yr too early for overhaul. to me, its his redshirt yr. he’s learning on the job.

          • JofreyRice

            or Hundley from UCLA, or Stephen Morris, from Miami.

            Those guys have flaws, but I think you hit on a good point. Chip’s guys are going to be a little different than the typical drop back signal caller.

          • Andy124

            My information may be out of date, I don’t get to follow all football the way I used to, but doesn’t Morris throw a lot of pics?

          • JofreyRice

            You know, I had read that. Problems with guys dropping into the middle of the field.

            Truth be told, I really haven’t had time to watch a lot of college football this year. I am kind of basing this on 2012, which I thought Morris showed a lot of promise–an NFL arm on intermediate throws, accuracy, very nice touch on deep ball, mobility and speed, etc. If he tanks throughout the season, obviously, that will hurt his draft stock.

          • Andy124

            Nah, I withdraw the question. I must have seen him play against VT way back in 2010 lol.

          • All In Eagles

            We can only hope he gets his guy. I’m looking forward to it.

          • cliff henny

            like hundley(he might be 2nd rounder-think we could use top rated safety, ya know?), morris does nothing for me. what about that price kid in washington. couple yrs ago he was a 1 man band, last yr struggled, but looks better this yr.
            .
            my fear is we’ll end up with boyd. manziel is alot better. still avent moved off of marioti. he runs that oregon offense like a machine.

          • JofreyRice

            It would be very hard for me to argue against a Mariota-Kelly reunion. I liked Tahj Boyd last year, again, haven’t really gotten a chance to study him this year.

          • cliff henny

            watched every game he’s played. thing with clemson,most people dont realize is thet might have the most talented athletic skilled position players over past 3 or 4 yrs. dabo sweeney is a recruiting machine. i have no idea how he’s getting some of these guys into clemson (which is as good of a school as duke). cj spiller can barely walk and talk. he’s playing with nfl talent and 1st rounders at that, they have 2 freshman recrs that run sub 4.3 40′s and cant get on the field. it’s insane.

          • aub32

            Exactly. Nick Foles is the greatest QB ever, and he was a 3rd round pick. Ok this one was out of boredom. I’m clearly kidding.

      • aub32

        I’m Team Eagles.

    • BlindChow

      It’s like some people would rather the team lose than see the backup QB have a good game.

      • aub32

        I haven’t seen anyone say that on either side. In fact some non Foles guys are offering praise but then are barrated because it wasn’t enough praise or don’t believe he should be the starter despite doing some good things.

  • B-West

    Jackson also drew a big P.I. flag in the 3rd. About a 30 yard penalty, but big for momentum, too. It was right after the Giants took the lead, and the offense had been sputtering. PI penalties drawn should be a stat, I’m sure somebody is tracking it some where.

    • Dutch

      Good play by Jackson, he turned the corner inside out and twisted him around again.

  • mrparabolic

    Q: What did Chip Kelly say was the most important feature of a quarterback?
    A: Repetitive Accuracy

    Q: Who is the most accurate quarterback in the history of the Philadelphia Eagles?
    A: Nick Foles

  • Andy124

    If you believe that Vick should have been brought back to compete for the job, then you saw him win the job and play well in the first halves of the Washington and Denver games, and for the entirety of the San Diego game, as the Eagles organization obviously does and as many of the fans here do, it would have been ridiculous to say, “Nick played a good half of football there. He’s the new starter”.

    If you believe that Vick never should have been brought back to a rebuilding team in the first place and we should use this year to begin the search for a franchise qb, then that game will validate your belief as much as any small sample can.

    Now, if Foles starts next week and has a good game and the Eagles win, then you can make a serious case for Foles taking over full time.

    • Eagles4Life

      I agree in part, but still say leave it to the coaches. I’ve been a Vick fan in addition to Eagles since we are both from the same area, but Eagles fans as a conglomerate have run this debate into the ground lol (both sides included). It is past tiring at this point. Hope and cheer for a W every Sunday and leave it at that.

      • EaglePete

        oh man, I faved your comment before even reading below. Its amazing how the back n forth can get detailed to death. Talk about over kill

  • Eagles4Life

    *hopes to not see the pro-Foles/anti-Vick and anti-Foles/pro-Vick banter*

    Drats…no such luck.

    • BlindChow

      Ha, looks like I’ll be getting a lot more done at work this week…

  • Eagledelphia

    We will see how Foles does against Tampa this week if Vick can’t go and that will show us how well he can run the offense but I expect his performance to be much worse when he is game planned for but we shall see a win is a win and I don’t care who gets it

    • Eagles4Life

      Precisely.

    • ztom6

      maybe it will be better, maybe if it will be worse, but I am very curious to see it. Foles is knocking on the door.

    • EaglePete

      ya totally, he can be very different if hes game planned for. That being said, he made some nice throws. That toss to Celek was a beauty, the catch even better for stone hands Celek. Per all the turnover and field position talk, while true, you can only play with whats given to you so he did well regardless. We should all be happy for that. I still think Dallas wins this division but the Romo factor could mean anything, he can win some and give some away.