Johnny Manziel, Chip Kelly a ‘Perfect’ Match?

Michael Vick has thrown four touchdowns and no interceptions in the Eagles’ first two games. He’s completing over 62 percent of his attempts and averaging a league-high 10.3 yards per attempt.

So it feels a little strange to be discussing a quarterback who isn’t even 21-years-old yet. But the fact of the matter is Vick is 33. Even if he plays lights-out this season, and the Eagles bring him back, they very well could still be in the market for their QB of the future in next year’s draft.

Which brings us to the topic of this post: Johnny Manziel.

Greg A. Bedard of The MMQB wrote a terrific piece about Manziel’s prospects as an NFL QB and made the link between Manziel and Chip Kelly:

“I diagrammed some of my favorite plays at Tivy [High], and one of the Oregon coaches said, ‘We literally run the exact same offense with different terminology,’ ” Manziel told the San Antonio Express-News three years ago. “Coach Kelly said I was perfect for their system, and I knew I was going to accept as soon as they offered.”

Manziel later decided Oregon was too far from his hometown of Kerrville, Texas, about three and a half hours from College Station. But given Manziel’s talents and Kelly’s uptempo, frenetic offense, a Manziel-Kelly reunion would be blissful. “Oh my gosh. He would be the prototype,” an NFC general manager says.

Manziel is around 6-0 or 6-1, and Bedard says scouts feel he can run a 4.55 40. He also is said to have huge hands.

During a coach’s clinic (via, Kelly talked about the importance of hand size in quarterbacks:

If the quarterback is not tall, look at his hands. That is the biggest coaching point to finding a quarterback. How big are his hands, and how well can he control the football? The height of the quarterback is not the important thing. No one playing quarterback throws over the line. They throw through lanes in the linemen. The important thing is the size of their hands.

There are several talented, athletic quarterback prospects expected to be available in next year’s draft, including one, Marcus Mariota, that Kelly coached at Oregon.

But we’re sure to hear more connections between Kelly and Manziel in the next nine months.

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  • ohitsdom

    He’s an easy player to hate, but I’m sure I’d come around if he played in Eagles green.

  • BlindChow

    I guess if he’s still there at the top of the 4th round, I wouldn’t be opposed to the Eagles trading up to get him…

  • Rick H

    The last QB that they made a huge deal about the size of his hands (10 inches & biggest QB hands if not all hands at the combine when he came out) was Ryan Fitzpatrick. So if that is any indication I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into hand size.

  • Broadcasting Wisdom

    We should only draft defense next year. Kelly has enough toys on offense. Let someone else take the sexy picks of Johnny Football, Bridgewater, and Mariota. Give me a couple safeties and cornerbacks that can cover and a couple linebackers to replace Ryans and Cole in a year or two, and I will be happy.

    • Tyler Phillips

      Sorry but offense is king. We only need a marginal D to contend

      • theycallmerob

        That’s fair and true, but if you think our defense is marginal than I want whatever you’re smoking

        • Broadcasting Wisdom

          Yes, I’m not saying a top 5 D, but give me in the 10-15 range with our current O and we would be in the super bowl hunt. Our current O with the current D and we will be scratching our way to get 9 wins.

          • theycallmerob

            We need a S-CB-OLB-NT, in that order. At least 2 key starters at those positions next year, hopefully rooks. Maybe 1 more via free agency.

          • Philly0312

            Disagree. NT is paramount. Our clowns are getting face planted left and right. Need a guy who can 2 gap bad in a 34. We have zero 2 gap dlinemen. Some are okay…but too much 34…not enough 43 under so far this season

          • RIP illa

            Sorry but NT doesn’t have to see enough snaps to be paramount! If you’re running a 3-4, whether 2 gap or 1, an elite pass rushing OLB is paramount. Then, as far as front 7 is concerned, it goes DE to help facilitate your OLBs pass rush, and followed by NT and MLB. I’d probably rate MLB highs in terms of what’s paramount. You can draft a decent NT fairly late and/or pick up a body in FA pretty easily. NT is to D, what Guard is to O. Important yes, but can be obtained easier than other positions.

          • Philly0312


            First…a 34 is a 2 gap system…if its a 1 gap d…its a 43 or hybrid. Thats LITERALLY the primary difference between the two.

            Swcond….Raji, Ngata, Wilfork, Campbell, Poe are all first round picks on traditional 34s. Most other ds in the nfl play 43 unders or 43s. 49ers are the only traditional 34 playing at a high level without a good nt.

            Third, good NTs create overrated olbs and mlbs who make pro bowls.

            Cofield ia the only NT I can think of with a productive career at nt drafted outside the first round (3rd), and he wasnt a success with his first team.

            Forth….wtf? We have MLBs, average mlbs…and no safeties or 34 linemen. Hence why our lineman got the crap kicked out of them by a horrible oline on sunday.

          • Adam

            3-4 NT is not a premium position whatsoever. While game changers like the guys you’ve listed above are nice to have, all you really need is a guy who can eat a couple blocks.

        • Tyler Phillips

          Oh hell no. Lol definitely not right now.

    • Tom w

      No. Bpa. Qb pass rusher trump all if available . J Byrd will be our safety savior and change the entire secondary.

    • RIP illa

      As much as I love the thought of drafting nothing but D this year since we did a lousy job of finding gods enough talent on that side of the ball this year…still gotta think bout O. We do have spots to be taken care of on that side of the ball. They are not more pressing but if we’re going BPA, then there jus might be some spots that we spend picks on. WR(s), G, and C (backup). Plus if we can get our hands on one the higher rated athletic QBs that are coming out, well we definitely have to pull the trigger…and Heeeeeeell No…not Manziel! Regardless of if they are going to sit behind Vick or Start right away.

  • theycallmerob


  • Weapon Y

    I actually like Manziel, but I’d still take Bridgewater any day over him. Granted, the defense should probably be a bigger priority anyway.

  • Will

    Who are the 2 best Safeties in the Draft ? Pick’em 1 & 2 ………instead of a fifth RD after thought….then DL,NT, LB,CB’s and then go QB….Matt Barkely not the great QB? why waste a fouth RD pick on him? Everyone said he didn’t have an NFL arm! Manziel too short….another Tebow….college phenom….better off developing Foles….Foles needs to work on long ball accuracy and touch….FS-Hasean Clinton-Dix -Alabama & SS Craig Loston-LSU…stop ignoring the Defense!

  • EaglePete

    Philadelphia would prefer a QB that can actually play 16 gms in a season so no thanks. Oh and I think a brain is bit more important than hand size.

  • Dom

    Dumb ass story sheil ……we already have the prototype lets ride with this without the negative wishing against OUR QB !!!

    • EaglePete

      dumb ass post. Johnny football has been in the news lately, not sure if you noticed and people referenced the Eagles. Zero to do with negative wishes, man you Vick worshippers are a sensitive bunch

      • Dom

        Eaglepete how much is your gynecologist co pay

        • A Big Butt and a Smile

          Oh No.

          Lady Bits are wonderful things.

          Just call him a d*ck. :-)

  • Media Mike

    Teddy Bridgewater.

  • Will

    Bridgewater will be gone before we pick.Who are the 2 best Safeties in the Draft ? Pick’em 1 & 2 ………instead of a fifth RD after thought….then DL,NT, LB,CB’s and
    then go QB….Matt Barkely not the great QB? why waste a fouth RD pick
    on him? Everyone said he didn’t have an NFL arm! Manziel too
    short….another Tebow….college phenom….better off developing
    Foles….Foles needs to work on long ball accuracy and
    touch….FS-Hasean Clinton-Dix -Alabama & SS Craig Loston-LSU…stop
    ignoring the Defense!

  • Will

    You have a FA in Casey, a 2nd RD er in Ertz, and a 4th RDer QB that barley play and your Safety group suxs just poor preparation and a waste of resources …pitiful while the 4th best Safety in the NFL is available just stupid…..He ends up playing for the Gnats and hurts one of our key player’s I’m gonna be pissed…

  • A Big Butt and a Smile

    Oh Gawd. Not that spoiled, rotten brat.

    • Media Mike

      Agreed. You don’t care for my observations on Vick, but Vick handles himself as such a pros pro these days, I couldn’t stomach Johnny Football. We’ve had classy starters here for a while, no need to add that type of element with Johnny Football.
      I’m a Bridgewater guy! Right arm. Right legs. Right brain. Right attitude. Right height.

      • Will

        I love Vick especially this year no picks and hardly no fumbles…He throws one of the best tight spiral passes I’ve ever seen and accurate…..

        • Media Mike

          A one turnover Vick after two games has been a revelation. I’m enjoying his play. I got into yesterday with some folks about why I disagreed with Sheil on the Casey and D-Jax (3) incompletions, but Vick is playing some great ball.

      • A Big Butt and a Smile

        I’m not even knocking the guys talent. Really I’m not. But could you imagine the whining and the off the field drama?

        Good lord I’ll pass.


    The Eagles and most successful teams pick the best player available. The Eagles especially try to find above replacement players for cheap in free agency. That way they aren’t forced to draft anyone.

    Because of scheme change, we had too many needs to address them adequately in one year. I’d be shocked and disappointed if we went into the draft feeling like we HAD to draft a safety, much less two. I hope we get two decent guys in FA and then let the chips fall on draft day.

    Mistakes are inevitable when you draft to fill a need.

    • Will

      As long as they draft all Defense who cares…they will be lucky to hit on 1…..Lane Johnson this year!

  • Token

    Honestly, Id rather have Vick another year than draft this kid. Thats saying a lot coming from me. I just hate him as a NFL prospect. Im already worried Howie has a crush on him. Seems like the kind of kid hed fall in love with.

    Paper thin, 5’10. No way hes near his listed 6’1. Arm doesnt have much zip IMO. Sandlot football player. Character issues. Will never be a SB winning QB. Has a much better chance of being Tebow than he does Brett Favre.

  • Tom w

    Id much rather have bridge water ucla qb taj Boyd or mariotta especially. Johnny is just getting pub because he is an idiot and immature and beat Alabama once. Other prospects are much better and safer

    • BleedGreenJames

      Mariota please. Thank you.

    • Token

      Im a Bridgewater fan, but since that doesnt seem in the realm of possibility I guess I gotta look more into these other guys. People seem to love Mariota but I gotta admit I havent really watched him much.

      Does he have the clutch gene? Is he a leader? Accuracy? Zip on his throws? Read defenses well?

      A quick stat check and it looks like he had two inaccurate games to start the year.

      • NickS1

        Hard to gauge a clutch gene with an Oregon QB. Small sample size of clutch moments because they’re usually crushing teams.

  • SoCalEaglesFan

    Manziel strikes me as the type who is a great college QB who will fail miserably in the pros. The best possible college QB for Kelly in the NFL was his own Dennis Dixon. We saw how that worked out. I couldn’t care less about Johnny Football’s wild side. It’s his football side that concerns me. He’s High School Harry.

  • Griff

    Manziel is a baller for sure, but id prefer mariota

  • Jayyy

    give me Mariota 100 out of 100 times. Mariota will be the better pro prospect.

  • anon

    Are we seriously thinking of grabbing another qb in a high round next year? we have 3, none of which are tradeable for value, 2 of which are in rookie contracts?

    • Token

      Thats the game, gotta find a QB. Doesnt always happen right away.

  • #7

    We already have the prototype on our team right now. Build up the defense

    • anon

      Yup that’s what i’m saying. We might have 2/3 years w/ Vick — let’s get the D right and get a championship. Honestly, i think we have a system that doesn’t require once in a generation QB to go far. There’s a ton of mobile QBs that can pass what are second stringing (see baltimore, cinci, as examples). Let’s have a good draft / FA and do that thingy thing.

      • #7

        That’s my thinking. Why start over if we don’t have to.

  • #7

    Manziel would get eaten alive by the fans and media in Philly

  • Fabrizio

    I’d take him if he was there at 32

  • Media Mike
    If anybody wants to get into a discussion about who to draft / who to sign.

  • Damien

    Just give me Tahj Boyd. Manziel is a spoiled, bratty, punk…

  • Seabreezes51

    I would rather a taller QB …but that is up to Chip who he thinks is best. The QB position has become so overwhelmingly important it is critical to make sure you can field the best possible QB..before any other position. A top QB is worth three or four starters at any other position

  • Adam

    Mariota or bust

  • #7

    IMO if you’re not drafting a once in a generation QB, you should build elsewhere. I keep seeing Bridgewater, Boyd, and Mariota’s names coming up. I don’t think these guys are that and people Damn sure ain’t saying that they are.

    Think about it. There are few QBs that succeed that are drafted outside of the top 5 or first round. I learned my lesson as a teenager as far as college QBs. All of these qbs winning the Heisman.

    Toretta, Dorsey, Ward, Wuerffel. And QBs that light it up in college…too many to mention. Then when they get to the NFL they can barely complete a pass.

    None of these guys are once in a generation QBs like a Luck, Griffin, Peyton, and belive it or not…. Vick.

    Say what u want (Vick), but these guys were considered that when they came out. Also, we will not be in contention for Bridgewater anyway. Maybe you get lucky and hit on a lower round pick, but as we all know, it’s rare.

    Clowney is going #1 anyway. Keep Vick and build the lines up and the backend. 49ers did it perfectly. When they were losing, they drafted an o-lineman and hit on all of those picks. D-lineman they did well too. They are the beasts of the league because they built from the inside out.

    • Token

      If you think people arent saying Bridgewater is a elite QB prospect, you arent paying attention.

      And at the same time you still think Clowney is #1? Hes had little impact. One of the most over hyped prospects in recent memory. No way in the world he goes #1.

      I realize your deep rooted love for Vick doesnt allow you to talk about the future of the position in a rational manner, so we wont even continue down this road.

      Its just still very strange a grown man feels this way about another grown man, a stranger none the less.

      Ill just say enjoy this season. The Eagles are not in a position to give Vick another huge contract. They are not close enough to being a contender for that to make any sense.

    • BleedGreenJames

      We tried building from the inside out with Graham and Watkins. It’s tough to build a talented roster when you have a lawyer at GM.

      • #7

        Lmao Damn that’s a good one

  • aub32

    I haven’t seen much of Johnny, pretty much just the 2 games against Alabama but I would not be so quick to shoot this down. Think about it. Many of you were bashing Vick for decision making, TOs, and making himself too vulnerable before the season. Look at Vick’s play the last too games. He’s setting recoerd numbers while protecting both himself and the ball. (outside of down field blocking for Shady) If Chip can do that with Vick at 33, just imagine the impression he can have on a kid that will barely be 21. Johhny would not have to start right away. He could take a year or two to both learn the system, calm down, and increase his arm strength. Then when Vick eventually leaves, Johnny is in position to take over. I know this same scenario works with a few guys coming out this year, but they may be off the board by the time we pick if the rest of the NFCE keeps playing the way they have and we advance to the playoffs. Johnny’s concerns may dop him into the 2nd round allowing us to get a first round defender and our future QB in the same draft.

    As a side note think of the headlines. Johnny Football vs Matt Barkley for the starting job of the Philadelphia Eagles QB.

    • BleedGreenJames

      Manziel vs Barkley isn’t even a competition in this type of offense.

  • Billy P

    Johnny Football would be a great Eagles QB for the next 10 years….Marcus Mariotta would also be great for Eagles.

    • Jack R.

      Manziel is a great young talent, did you see him play FANTASTIC the last two years against national champion Alabama? The kid is electrifying and he is only 20 years old and will mature and stop doing some of the silly off the field things which are only minor.

  • JofreyRice

    I only cosign on QB picks from Mater Dei high school.

  • BlindChow

    He’s a head case. He’s all about himself. I think you’ll see more and more “Ryan Leaf” comparisons as the draft nears.

  • Dasdip

    Just because Chip Kelly or Howie Roseman say it doesn’t make it true. They are both good speakers and great in interviews, but, with all due respect to the GM and Coach, when I’m curious as to what it takes to make it to the Super Bowl, I look at the recent teams to challenge for a spot into the final game. When you do that, you see what they have in common. The numbers don’t lie: Pass defense (with a strong offense) wins championships in the current NFL.

    Just think to yourself of the current best teams in the NFL. The Seahawks and Broncos are on teams’ early list of Super Bowl possibilities. The Patriots are another option. It turns out these teams are 1, 2, and 3 in opposing team’s passer rating. The Chiefs, who are also undefeated, are in 5th place. The Eagles are currently 24th with a 100.5 passer rating.

    Passer rating is a bit of a passe stat, but it is better than simple yardage in evaluating pass defense. Unlike yardage, a team with a high octane offense isn’t unfairly punished for their opponents’ tendency to forgo the run. Also unlike yardage, takeaways are factored into the equation.

    The average passer rating of Super Bowl winning teams in the last 4 years is 75.6. That’s not “marginal.” It’s very good. Last year, that would have been good enough for 4th in the league. This year it would slot a team between 8 and 9, or between the Bucs and the Titans but better than the Steelers and 49ers. It’s still early in the season, and so the passer rating numbers for this year are volatile, but you get the point.

    Out of the last four years of NFC and AFC Championship competitors (or 16 teams in total), all but 3 teams have been in the top 11 or higher for pass defense when opposing team’s passer rating is the measure. Half of the teams have been in the top five or higher in passing defense (by passer rating). I’m not going back to ye olde days of footballe. This is from 2009-2012.

    While having a strong pass defense is no guarantee of a spot in the Super Bowl, it is very difficult to imagine that a team would make it into the Super Bowl without it.

    Last year the final four teams in the NFL were the Ravens (11th, 80.6 rating), the 49ers (6th, 78.0), the Seahawks (3rd, 71.8), and the Broncos (9th, 79.4). The winner of the Super Bowl had an opposing passer rating of 80.6.

    In 2011, the final four teams (Giants, Patriots, 49ers, and Ravens) were 1st, 5th, 20th, and 21st in opposing passer rating with ratings ranging from 68.8 to 86.1. The Super Bowl winners, unexpectedly the Giants, had a an opposing passer rating of 86.1. It is worth noting that the team is best known defensively for its pass rushers.

    In 2010, the final four teams (Packers, Steelers, Bears, and Jets) were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th in opponents’ passer rating. The ratings ranged from 67.2 to 77.1. The Super Bowl winners, Green Bay, had an opposing passer rating of 67.2.

    In 2009, the final four teams (Saints, Colts, Vikings, and Jets) 1st, 3rd, 12th, and 27th in opposing passer rating. The ratings ranged from 58.8 to 92.5. The Super Bowl winners, New Orleans, had an opposing passer rating of 68.6.

  • Dasdip

    Of the last 16 NFC and AFC championship competitors (from 2009-2012), half of the teams had the Top 5 best opposing passer ratings in the league. More than 80% were in the Top 11 teams in passer rating defense. Even teams like the great Saints and Packers teams had pass defenses capable of taking the ball away and lowering the opponents’ pass success.

    Don’t believe the hype that a great offense can be relied upon to overcome a average defense in today’s NFL. Generally speaking, it takes a great offense and a good defense to compete for a championship.

  • Chris

    i agree with most of what you said, but Alex Smith was the #1 overall pick by the 49ers…

  • RIP illa

    Ok, I’m not going to get into all the other stuff. However I tried explaining this to you before, so I’ll try again.

    I like Vick as our QB. Matter of fact I Love him as our QB…this does not mean that he’s infallible. I’m not high on Foles at all. I hate weak arm QBs and think his ceiling is only a little better than Trent Dilfers. I’m not found of game managers!!!

    W/ that being said if this team has a shot to land Bridgewater, Mariota, Boyd, or any dynamic top tier QB that pops up from now till draft, they Damn well better pull the trigger!!! Cut Barkely or trade him for a 5th-7th. Prolly can’t get much for him. Or trade Foles if they’re gonna keep Barkely. I hate Barkely more than I do Foles BTW. This is not an indictment on Vick!!! This is what’s best for the team. We could easily keep Vick as the starter and let the drafted QB sit and learn for however long. This is only a benefit. There is no downside! Vick is 33 and gets banged up a lot and has already suffered so many hits and injuries in his career. As a smart organization they would and should be planning for life after Vick. I give him 3-4 more years and I think 4 is really pushing it. So you draft one of those QBs and he has 3-4 years to learn the system and the league, and he may also see some playing time here and there since Vick has only made it through one complete season. Then when Vick is retired or cut you have a game ready QB already to take the reigns and lead the team w/o missing a beat!

    It wouldn’t be drafting a kid to immediately challenge Vick! If he keeps playing like this throughout the season, and the organization brought in someone to challeng me him…that would be totally stupid!!! It’s bringing in a highly touted prospect that could be a day one starter in many other places and slowly bringing him along so that when he does take the field he would be even better!

    Gotta take out your Vick love from the equation.

  • #7

    Never said he wasn’t. My point is,”elite prospect” does not guarantee success.

    Ryan Leaf was one too and a host of others. Freaking J.P. Losman was considered one lol.

    I only support Vick because he gives us the best chance to win now. If a future QB falls in our lap, fine, but we obviously need defense.

    Hell I guess I’m higher on Foles than you are lol. Foles has potential, he’s just not ready to start, yet you’ve already threw him in the trash.

    You talk about my “devotion to Vick”. At least I don’t give up on players so quickly, like yourself.

  • #7

    Point taken. You strike out there at times too. I don’t recall anyone saying that Alex Smith was a once in a generation player. That player was Rodgers in that Draft of course. Like I said, you have to get lucky most of the time…

  • Chris

    yea sorry, not trying to nitpick. It’s a big game of chance. Overall the 9ers are a great example of how to build an organization the last few years

  • RIP illa


    1st I’m pretty sure Wade Phillips and the Texans run a 3-4 based on 1 gapping. It’s not a 4-3U. I get that they are similar but not the same! And 1/2 the league (round 15 teams) run a 3-4 whether it be a 1 gap or 2…not all of them do it the same way. So I guess when applying your logic to the teams that run a 4-3…most teams don’t even run a 4-3, since they don’t run a traditional 4-3 and instead run variations!!! Some run a over some run an under some have even gone to 4-4 split and 4-6 but these are still all variations of the 4-3!!! And I thought that the Literal primary difference between the two systems (3-4 4-3) were the number of down linemen…not the gaps they occupy!!! Silly me!

    Second, Raji…1st round pick, plays DE. Can move to NT when needed but is listed as DE. Yes he does play DT, not to be confused w/ NT but that’s when they are out of their base package. Funny, thought that was the overall basis in my last reply…”Sorry but NT doesn’t see enough snaps to be paramount”.
    Ngata, 1st round pick, back to being a NT. the addition of Canty helps facilitate his move back to NT as he spent a hell of a lot of time last year at DE. Plus Ngata is a 3 down player. How often is B-More playing in their base package??? All game, I think not. So I would guess that he spends plenty of time at DT and probably more than he does at NT seeing as how teams don’t stay in base forever. Hmmm…not enough snaps at NT…where have I heard this before???
    Wilfork???? Why in the hell would you bring him up! Pats are a hybrid team, so according to you…they don’t count!!! Plus many sites have them listed as a 4-3 hybrid rather than a 3-4 hybrid.
    Campbell, 2nd round pick and also a DE.
    Poe, 1st round pick and NT. yet did absolutely nothing his rookie year. Had two very good games this year. In the words of Denny Green…’if you wanna crown his ass then crown him…’ Lol. He maybe a great player, hope not when we play them. So out of the 15 or so teams running a 3-4, you only manages to list 2, count em 2 NTs playing at a high level!!!

    Third, Good NTs help facilitate good MLBs. Yes they eat up O-line men so MLBs can run semi free. But they don’t creat overrated MLBs. That’s just a asinine statement. MLBs do a hell of a lot more than just run at the space that the NT has created. I guess Ray Lewis did nothing before Ngata got there…huh??? And when Ngata was lined up at DE in their base, Ray was totally lost!!! SMH!
    Also as every position helps another when running any type of defense, you couldn’t be further from the truth when you say that NTs create overrated OLBs. Seriously!!! DE have a direct effect on the play of OLB, as I mentioned in my last reply. And still you have to have an Elite pass rushing OLB. That can also play the run. ‘Hey Clay, screw Raji you don’t need him cause Pickett is the man that’s making your career. You’re soooo overrated Clay!!! Same goes for you Aldon…you don’t need Justin Smith, cause whoever your NT is, is making your career!!! Fact is 9ers don’t even need you cause you’re so overrated!!!’ Really dude???

    Fourth…WTF…why are Safeties being mentioned when I already said as far as front 7 is concerned?! Agreed we don’t have the best 2 gap personnel, which is why I think we should be 1 gapping. Yet it still would be a 3-4!!! And we didn’t lose cause of the run on Sunday!!! Your point on that is completely off base. We lost cause we got shredded in the secondary (Ahhh Saftey, but not just Safety…CB also) and due to the fact we had no pass rush. How is a 2 gapping NT going to help that when his main job is TO EAT UP BLOCKERS SO THE MLBs CAN FIND THE BALL AND MAKE THE TACKLE!!!
    Notice how that primarily focuses on the run? Oh but you’re going to say…’well that frees up the MLBs to blitz’. Well 1st, if you watched the game last Sunday, you would see that we didn’t spend a bunch of time in base as evident by our personnel lined up over the center. Every time we had Thornton, or Logan, or Square over the center. We were not in our base!!! And 2nd our MLBs were getting through the lanes in the O-line, when they blitzed, only to be stuffed by Brown and Woodhead time and time again!!!

    You’re blurring the lines between taking/getting/needing a NT and taking/getting/needing a dominate Once or twice in a generation player that can play the position…Hence the names you listed off.

  • kleptolia

    Not inaccurate. Drops by receivers and a few throw-aways when being pressured. Last game he completed 23 of 33 for 456, 4 TDs, 1 TD rushing, no turnovers.
    Mariota is the best QB to come through Oregon in the modern era. Even better than Dennis Dixon. I don’t really like saying that, but it’s true.

  • #7

    How can you accurately judge him if his team is up 59-7? When does he face pressure and have to lead a comeback? Hard to show alot being up that much. That’s why it’s hard for me to watch college football. These guys look like superstars until they get to the big boy league.

    You either get a once in a generation player, or temper your expectations and hope for the best with a lower round pick IMO…Foles is a good example of that.

  • #7

    They are the prototype on how to build a team these days. I was watching the 49er Packer game in week one and was thinking, WOW look at those lines. Those guys are big, fast, and nasty and that’s how you win in this league.

    You also have to be nasty on the backend too and we watched a player named Dawkins that showed us all how it’s supposed to be done. Not like soft little Nate Allen. Is he being made the scapegoat? Probably so, but his “suckyness” just stands out on the screen.

  • Token

    Well of course its all a crap shoot. But you hope you have the scouting dept. in place to lesson your chances of failure, which you can certainly argue we do not.

    Even the once in a generation type of prospect can fail. You say Vick is that, but hes been a failure to this point in his career.

    This league begins and ends at the QB position. You dont have that you have no chance.

    As it stands now they have a old Vick who for the moment is healthy and playing well. Behind him they have nothing. Foles had his shot this season, this was his chance and you arent promised many of them. He failed. Hes done here. Barkley just doesnt have the arm for this league. You cant afford to waste more time with guys that arent good enough.

  • #7

    Hey I just said I’m not as high on these guys are you guys are. That’s not “a love for Vick” IMO. The point of my posts is that you guys are making it seem like these guys are guaranteed. they have to get on the field and prove it.

    I don’t have a problem with them taking a QB, but you don’t have to reach for one. We’ve done enough reaching around here the last couple of years when we should have just taken the BPA. We already know who we’ve missed out on already so no need to name them..when we were reaching.

    I just don’t think they are once in a generation players. Just my opinion dude. Can Kelly’s system work for them? Maybe, maybe not.

    You’re right, Vick has 3-4 years left and if he plays well keep him and have a QB developing behind him. Not once have I disagreed with that statement. I just feel that you guys are putting too much hope in these players when most times, you strike out on QBs.

    Also, could you imagine Johhny Football playing in Philly? He would get eaten alive here and he’s already immature as it is.

  • #7

    Foles isn’t done here. Can he not develope? He was not ready to play Token, Period. Damn man, look how the tables have turned lol.

    I’m defending Foles now lol

  • #7

    A failure because he hasn’t won a Super Bowl? I guess we should call Marino, Jim Kelly, and Warren Moon failures?

    Not comparing Vick to them at all, but is that what you’re judging “failure” on?

    To me, for the most part, if you’ve won more than you lost you were a success and at least not a bust. Vince Young not included in this..he has a winning record as a starter but not the same type of impact as Vick and others.

    Not many “failure” QBs can say that they are the greatest of all time at anything in the NFL, and Vick can do that.

    That’s not a “failed” QB in my book. Sure, the goal is to win the SB. if you’re judging on that, then we have A LOT of failed QBs.

  • RIP illa

    The love for Vick part was more in general than at you. I too have a love for Vick. And I hate Manziel w/ every fiber of my being. So no definitely font draft him. And you gotta watch them play, if you haven’t. Bridgewater, Boyd, Mariota all look like the real deal. I don’t focuse on numbers or wins and loses. But if you watch them and see the throws they make w/ their arms and feet…then you should be able to see it! And by throws,8′ not talking about who they hit for big yards. I’m talking bout the placement and velocity and accuracy. They’re incredible.

  • #7

    I’m sure you’re right, but it’s easy to do in college. Hell Tebow was accurate in college if you look at his numbers.

  • #7

    He would be fun to watch, thats for sure

  • #7

    Johnny Football learning under Vick. Sounds cool

  • RIP illa

    The few times I did watch college football back then, I hated Tebow. He looked awful as a QB. That’s why you take the numbers w/ a grain of salt but watch the games and look at the actual throws.

  • #7

    Yeah I didn’t watch much either except for when he beat my Sooners with that damn jump pass to win the game. Just looking at the numbers he was “accurate” technically.

    I can’t lie, I’m a Tebow fan though. Hope he somehow gets a real shot

  • RIP illa

    Exactly. I’ll add that as indisciplined as Curry maybe, if we were 1 gapping or even playing a traditional 4-2-5 nickel…there’s not a guard in the league that could keep up w/ his 1st step on a consistent basis. Obvious passing downs call for obvious pass rushers.

  • nicksaenz1

    I can’t speak for Token, but I never touted the guy as a HOFer or even a great QB, but just good enough to beat out Vick based on what we had seen after he got figured out in 2010. Things weren’t exactly looking good for the guy, and I know you can even admit that. 40some turnovers in 22 or so games, etc. That said, I still think Foles will be a good QB in this league, although based on what Chip’s preferences seem to be, it won’t be in Philly. I think he needs a true west coast system that focuses on the short and intermediate throws, and based on what I’ve seen of Andy’s offense in KC, that’s why he asked about Foles. Smith doesn’t have a cannon either, and he’s doing just fine….. I think when Token says we need a young QB, I think it’s with that in mind since Foles doesn’t appear to be a Chip Kelly QB due to the lack of wheels. He may run a read option for 7 yards and actually slide, but ain’t nobody scared of the kid juking out defenders and busting a 50 yard scamper untouched. Not being able to match Vick’s arm certainly hurts the case, too. I believe that’s why Token is talking about a QB in next year’s draft. I don’t think anyone is sold on Barkley.

  • nicksaenz1

    I hope he gets one, too… FB or TE.

  • Adam

    Yeah, Mariota is as good as I think he is. Watch him play. Look at his stats.

  • #7

    I knew that was coming lmao. As you can see, I like underdogs. Pulled for Vick the same way when no one wanted him in 2009, then in 2010 when you people wanted Jeff Garcia to start instead Vick.

    You probably don’t remember that

  • #7

    He’ll get his chance to prove it in the NFL. That’s just me man. Too many QBs light it up in college for my liking.

  • #7

    So what is the deal on Curry? Why is he not active on gameday? I haven’t heard the coaching staff say why that I can remember, but my guess is that he’s terrible against the run

  • #7

    “just good enough to beat out Vick based on what we had seen after he got figured out in 2010”

    I think you already know my stance. I don’t put everything on the QB. It’s a team game…BUT absolutely Vick had fault in this thing for sure. Like I’ve said before many times, Vick was trying to waaayy too much…and the playcalling from AR and MM put it all on the QB to make all the plays and we all saw they changed it up for Foles…and for good reason. It was obvious that Foles can’t throw past 15 yards so they adjusted accordingly as they should..and to ya’ll it made Foles look better than Vick. I just saw the big picture. Absolutely no way Foles was better than Vick and not being biased at all. That’s how all of you got on the Foles bandwagon and then the “Vick is washed up” crap started. We all agree that #25 wasn’t utilized enough..until this year. Give Vick time and this is what he can do. Also, people wanted Vick to just stay in the pocket and although he can do that, Vick can control a defense with his legs too.

    I remember a play against SD last week where #7 looked downfield and found no one open. He scrambled left just a few steps and the entire defense shifted with him, which gave him more space to run for the first down. I think he finally knows how to use that ability in the right way at the right time.

    As far as Token, I get what he’s saying. Just was funny because he fought tooth and nail for Foles and now he’s done with him.

    Alex Smith, yeah, it looks good right now, he’s going to have to throw downfield at some point. Not his strength. He will be exposed for what he is. And I like Smith, but you have to be dynamic at QB to win SBs in this league now.

  • RIP illa

    Posted this awhile back. Maybe the coaches think he’s terrible against the run (don’t know) but us fans have no ideas seeing as he doesn’t get any PT:

    Although I am disappointed by the lack of PT for Curry, I can understand why (whether I agree or not). There is legitimate reasoning behind it.

    Curry has shown himself to be a very disruptive force, as of late. Sounds great right??? Yet when you run a traditional 3-4 you want your LBs to be the disruptive forces, while your down linemen make the situation more conducive for them to acheive that goal. It’s not merely as simple as how many plays you make against the run. Curry has to remain gap sound and disciplined no matter what! And the more time he spends in the backfield from a 5tech standpoint, shows how much he is not fulfilling his responsibilities.

    Think of Derek Landri, when we first signed him, not the year that he was hurt and did very little. Landri, when he got the chance to play, was living in opposing teams backfields! He disrupted his fair share of runs. Yet still as a team we were getting gashed by runs up the middle all year. As disruptive as he was, he was still a big part of our porous run D problem. And our coaches weren’t dumb…despite how much they frustrated us, they still were not dumb. If it was as simple as get Landri in on more snaps, cause he’s so disruptive, it would have been done. Yet it wasn’t. That’s cause Landri was only flashing and making splash plays, but never being consistently effective vs the run. There was no anchoring to his game at that time. He was completely freelancing.

    Why talk bout Landri when talking about Curry…well cause Vinny’s doing the same thing. Ideally Vinny would be a 3tech in a 1 gap 3-4 or a 4-3U. But we run a 2 gap, and as people have already mentioned…you’re not going to sit Cox for Curry. And speaking of Cox, why was he so quiet for so long last night??? Well part of it was cause he was playing his gap assignments (at the beginning. When we went into 3-3-5 nickel, then he got to do more and be disruptive) and part was cause he didnt get off his blocker (small part).

    Oh yeah, back to Curry/ Landri. So when Curry was playing in our 2 gap 3-4 he was in the backfield a lot, but by doing that it’s a double edge sword. Sure he’s going to flash and make some good things happen. But other times, he runs the risk and chance of shooting the wrong gap and allowing wide open cut back lanes. Even if he shoots the correct gap, his body positioning is already turned…that’s a big no no when playing the run. If the Guard responds quick enough, Curry has just made his job a little easier. All the Guard would have to do is seal the lane and just “guide” Curry past the play. But like I said double edge sword…so there are some positives to this scenario too. If the Guard reaction is off this could result in him having to overcompensate and that’s were we would see some holding on his part. But we know how that goes in this league, hit or miss. And if the Guard’s reaction is way off, then Curry has an easy pathway to the back.
    Teams will however make adjustments for this, hypothetically. The more Curry plays and if he follows suit, and the more disruptive he is…teams will start using this to their advantage and having free access for their Guards to hit the 2nd level of our D and for there Tackles to concentrate on the OLB. Counters, Draws, stretches, options, and zone blocking!!!

    Ok so with all that being said I still want Curry on the field as a situational Pass Rusher!!! But we will rarely, if ever, see that as long as Davis runs a 3-3-5. That line up goes Cole, Cox, Barwin. No one’s going to champion Curry replacing those guys! Could he be in the rotation…sure, but its still not enough for me. Not when we are up big like we were last night and need more pressure from the D-line vs a team that has essentially abandoned the run.
    My answer would be the 4-2-5 nickel. But “F” no to Curry at DE!!! Even coming out of college, many teams had reservations about him as an edge rusher, but they all agreed that the kid’s 1st step was at warp speed and very detrimental to opposing O-lines. That’s why I think in a traditional nickel, w/ a line up of Cole, Cox, Curry, and Barwin/Graham, would be perfect for situations like we faced in the 4th quarter last night. Curry on the inside as a pass rusher, in obvious passing situations…makes way to much sense!!! All he would have to worry about is going after the QB, by any means necessary! Plus, as I said before, his 1st step or when he fires off the ball, is way too explosive for Guards to handle. Instant pressure and moving the QB off his spot and throwing off route/pass timing.

  • ian

    Dennis Dixon was not his recruit. Kelly recruited both Manziel and Mariota to play for Oregon. Manziel cancelled because of “distance to home” though most people think it was because he heard Mariota was coming as well. Mariota’s numbers are inflated because of the high flying offense at Oregon, but it is his accuracy, decision making in the pocket and speed that makes him a true NFL prospect. His footwork is perfect, his reads etc. If I remember correctly he has the best QBR of anybody over the last 2 years. And as far as I can tell that is probably the only stat worth looking at anymore.

  • nicksaenz1

    I’m not saying I’m sold on the Vick resurrection just yet because we saw it in 2010, but he’s certainly off to a fantastic start. He has a slight tendency to revert to his “do too much” ways. I can agree that Andy didn’t use Shady enough. It only seemed like he did in 2011 because he got so much yardage in garbage time in the 4th. Maybe Vick has learned to use his legs in a more deliberate manner, time will tell, as it will for Foles. I like the kid, hopefully he makes it work, if not here, then somewhere.

  • nicksaenz1

    I don’t remember ever wanting Jeff Garcia to start in 2010, speaking personally. I bought my Vick jersey a week after we signed him in 2009, and while it was more to piss off all of the people who hated him for his dog fighting days, I was excited to have him on the team. I thought Kolb earned the job to start 2010, plus his contract extension dictated he did, but once he went down, I was all about Vick. That obviously faded once the magic run of 2010 ended and people figured out what we were doing etc, etc. But, he’s got a new start with Chip and so far he’s maximizing it. I’m not sold yet, that’s going to take a while, but so far so good.
    I know you like an underdog, but don’t get all Skip Bayless on us regarding Tebow. He’s awful @ QB in the NFL. End of story.

  • #7

    I know you’re not lol. I’m guessing that you never will be. Just glad that we can have a decent conversation for once.

    On the Vick using his legs, I’ve watched the SD game 3 times now. He just looks different. Like I’ve said for months, Vick plays better with his back against the wall. I hate that it seems this way..dude is a fighter. I like Underdogs man…Vick, Tebow, Pryor…everyone says that they can’t/couldn’t do it and I like to see them go out and prove people wrong.

    As for Foles, he competed a lot better than I thought he would. He was not afraid of Vick and I like that. He just needs to throw down field and not be Captain Checkdown. We already had the original Captain Checkdown here in Trent Edwards last year.

  • #7

    Makes sense

  • #7

    There was a lot of people that wanted Garcia. Dude was like a folk hero in Philly after he stepped in for McNabb. Hell I started to get the feeling that the fans wanted Garcia as the starter permanently.

    On Tebow, the name of the game was winning I thought, except that does not count for Tebow…

    It has to look good for winning to count for Tebow

  • nicksaenz1

    You’re Skip Bayless-ing me. Make it stop, please.
    I remember him filling in for Donnie and he did a good job and people wanted him to start over Donnie, but, for some reason I’m drawing a blank as far as Garcia being wanted in 2010.

  • #7

    And Bob Griffin III too

  • #7


    On the Garcia thing I clearly remember it. Mostly from the blogs, which were brutal.

    Just wasn’t you I guess.

  • #7

    Actually the year was 2009. My bad

  • BleedGreenJames

    We can only pray that Gamble takes over for the Rosebud soon

  • aub32

    Of course it isn’t, but neither was Foles vs. Vick and people ate that right up.

  • A Big Butt and a Smile

    I’m so tired of the argument from you. The “figured out” argument has been dis-proven a gazillion times. If the people you play the most can’t seem to beat you where is the “figured out.”

    If you were up in the fourth in most of your games and you lose b/c your defense can’t hold a lead you aren’t “figured out” If you finish the last 5 games of the season 3-2 with 3 wins in a row (2010) you aren’t “figured out”.

    If you lose a playoff game by 5 points and your kicker shanks 2 field goals you aren’t “figured out.”

    It’s completely lazy commentary that’s been completely debunked a gazillion times that’s oft repeated ’cause people are lazy thinkers and like to repeat snazzy soundbites instead of thinking for themselves.

  • A Big Butt and a Smile

    And just to show how idiotic you sound:

    This is the last 5 games of 2010:

    Chicago – L
    Houston – W
    Dallas – W
    NYG – W
    Vikings – L

    Where exactly was he “figured out.”

  • nicksaenz1

    you forgot the last two losses, DAL and GB… here’s the link, genius

    EDIT, the only reason you post, Mike Vick, didn’t play the DAL game. That said, when your forced to kick field goals, that’s because the offense was stopped.

  • nicksaenz1

    “Figured out” leads to the stops that lead to us not scoring. Good talk, see ya out there.