Eagles-Jaguars Game Review: The Offense

If you missed the defense, click here.

Below is the position-by-position game review of the offense.

QUARTERBACKS

* It was an uneven performance for Michael Vick. He went 15-for-23 for 184 yards, a touchdown and an interception. He also ran seven times for 53 yards. Vick did a nice job escaping pressure and finding Jason Avant down the sideline for 20 yards on the first play. He threw an absolute laser to Riley Cooper for the 9-yard TD. But he did leave plays on the field, like when he overthrew Brent Celek on the wheel route. And as Derek Sarley pointed out, he was too hesitant when he had receivers open. Vick can make up for breakdowns in protection, and he can hurt teams with his legs. But the number one factor that will determine his success in this offense is decision-making. We’ll find out where he’s at with that aspect when the Eagles take on the Redskins at FedEx Field two weeks from tonight.

* Hard to argue with the numbers for Nick Foles: 10-for-11 for 112 yards. Foles misfired on his first pass, a screen to Damaris Johnson, and then connected on his next 10. Most of them were underneath throws; only one traveled more than 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, per Pro Football Focus. But he averaged 10.2 yards per attempt as guys picked up yards after the catch. Foles moved the team and looked comfortable running the offense against Jacksonville’s backups.

RUNNING BACKS

* LeSean McCoy only played 18 snaps and carried five times for 9 yards. But he had a nice 15-yard run in the first, breaking Jason Babin’s tackle behind the line of scrimmage. He’ll rest now until Week 1.

* Bryce Brown continues to dazzle and frustrate at the same time. Eleven carries for 92 yards and a touchdown, including impressive gains of 7, 11 and 23. But he had the big fumble trying to get into the end zone in the second half.

This will come down to coaching. It’s up to Chip KellyDuce Staley and company to find a way to get Brown to secure the ball better. The talent is there. He’s got a unique blend of size and speed. But opposing defenses will be looking to punch the ball out every time he’s in the game. I still think Brown will get it down at some point. But it’s something to watch every time he’s on the field. As a blocker, Brown did a poor job with his blitz pickup on 3rd-and-8 in the first. Needs to get better in that area.

* The numbers for Chris Polk – six carries for 23 yards – weren’t great, but thought he ran well. He dragged defenders with him on a 4-yard pickup in the third and then gained 12 around the right end. Polk ran over a defensive back at the goal line on his touchdown. Normally reliable in blitz pickup, he whiffed on a play where Vick escaped and picked up 10 yards with his legs.

WIDE RECEIVERS

* DeSean Jackson continues to look comfortable in this offense. He finished with three catches for 48 yards on four targets. Jackson has six catches on nine targets this preseason and is averaging 20.5 yards per catch without a drop. A career year for No. 10 is in play.

* Avant was his usual self, keeping his feet in bounds for a 20-yard completion. He had the amazing one-handed grab on the ball that was tipped at the line of scrimmage. Overall, three catches for 36 yards on four targets. He also showed up as a blocker, doing a nice job on Polk’s runs of 12 and 11 yards, respectively.

* Cooper came down with the touchdown and made nice blocks on a screen to Avant and an 11-yard pickup by Brown. He also did a good job on Brown’s 23-yard run. Cooper figures to play a lot of snaps even if he’s not a big factor in the passing game.

* Johnson fumbled the one return but bounced back with a 61-yarder. As a receiver, he had two catches for 24 yards on three targets. On one play, he went up in traffic between defenders and snagged a 10-yarder from Foles.

* Russell Shepard got more involved, catching two balls for 38 yards. He showed good YAC ability, taking a screen 29 yards. Shepard’s firmly on the roster bubble.

TIGHT ENDS

* Brent Celek had four catches for 54 yards on seven targets, but he could have had an even bigger game. Vick overthrew him on the wheel route and also on another player early on. Celek made a nice grab for 26 yards on third down, ran hard for yards after the catch and blocked well on a bubble screen to Avant in the second.

* Zach Ertz lined up in the slot, found a soft spot in the zone and made a 13-yard grab in the first. He couldn’t hang on for what would have been a tough catch off play-action in the first as a defender delivered a forearm to his head. Up and down as a blocker. Poor job on McCoy’s 4-yard loss in the second. But excellent job on the screen to Shepard.

* James Casey was quiet again with one catch for 3 yards. He set up as a lead blocker, but whiffed on McCoy’s 15-yard run. Good block on the Shepard bubble screen in the fourth.

OFFENSIVE LINE

* Jason Peters looked great in pass protection. For the entire game, with one exception, he did not let his defender get close enough to even breathe on Vick. Even on the one play where he allowed a pressure, Vick held on to the ball for awhile before throwing it away. He was OK in the run game, but not his usual dominant self. Peters was slow to get to the linebacker on a second-quarter run that lost 4 yards. He couldn’t quite get to the linebacker on a Polk 4-yard run. Overall, though, encouraging performance from No. 71.

* Evan Mathis’ performance was shakier than usual. He had trouble with Tyson Alualu on third down during the first series and was later called for holding on 3rd-and-8, negating an 18-yard completion to Celek. Mathis got beat by Jeremy Mincey in the first and then again by Sen’Derrick Marks, who put a big hit on Vick. As we showed earlier in the week, he and Jason Kelce had an issue with a stunt and gave up a sack. Mathis was better in the run game. He threw a defender to the ground on Brown’s 5-yard run in the second. Nothing to panic about, but he did not play particularly well.

* The same goes for Jason Kelce. On the first play play, he had trouble with defensive tackle Roy Miller. On another play, Jason Babin looped inside from the left edge, and Kelce was slow to pick him up. He also had two errant snaps. One was high and ruined the timing of a zone read/bubble packaged play the Eagles had on. Vick had to throw the ball away. The other was low and fumbled by Vick. Kelce was mostly good in the run game, getting to the linebacker on McCoy’s 15-yard run and again on Brown’s 23-yard run. Still think he’ll have a good year, but not a clean performance.

* Todd Herremans has been shaky in two of three preseason games. On the second play, he had trouble with Miller and Vick ended up getting sacked. Herremans did a poor job picking up a blitzing linebacker on 3rd-and-8 in the first. Marks beat him badly on the Vick interception. Herremans, too, was better in the run game. Nice blocks on McCoy’s 15-yard run, Brown’s 7-yard run and Brown’s 23-yarder. We pointed out earlier that he and Johnson had a miscue that resulted in a 5-yard loss for McCoy. Worth keeping an eye on him early in the season, and also worth noting that Herremans was dealing with knee inflammation.

* Lane Johnson had some issues early on with Babin, getting beat on a spin move and then around the edge in the first quarter. But I thought he settled down and eventually played fine. In fact, Babin tried the same spin move in the second, and Johnson stoned him as Vick found Celek for 26 yards. Will get better as the season goes on, but Johnson should be pretty good from the start.

* A couple notes on the backups. Julian Vandervelde continues to take second-team reps at center. If he and Allen Barbre make the team, Danny Watkins could be on the outside looking in. Also, Michael Bamiro has a good chance of sticking.

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  • Robert McNeill

    Regarding Bryce Brown: This is the best demonstration of the fundamentals of ball security I have ever seen. It uses Tiki Barber as an example– a lot of good footage. Worth a look–it’s state of the art.

    http://vimeo.com/60563853

  • nicksaenz1

    The line will come together, I’m not concerned about them yet. That forearm to Ertz’s head should have been a penalty, but if I recall correctly, it was not…. Either way, another PS game down, and now we’re only two weeks away from what we’ve all been waiting for and 2 more weeks to really iron out these kinks. Come on 9/9, get here already!

  • Bdawk20

    As I said before, the offense runs better with Nick Foles. Everyone who has argued me on this point has said that Foles’ success is due to the RB’s, WR’s, TE’s, and O-Line, not Foles actual ability. That actually proves my point because the offense runs as it should for Chip Kelly when Foles plays. The team works together and you get consistent results. Vick, on the other hand, reverts back to bad habits and does not follow or trust the scheme. As DJax said, you are always going to get Vick trying to be the hero on every play, which ultimately hurts this team (I added that last part, not DJax). Feast or famine with Vick – that is why he is the coach killer. Foles takes what the defense gives him, Vick doesn’t. Is Foles the long-term answer? No, but he runs the offense the way it should. Foles is also a 2nd year player and the fact that he is even close to Vick in this QB competition should give Foles the nod over Vick, who can’t get out of his own way. The notes above about Vick hesitating scream vintage Vick – he should have never been named the starter because he plays his best when he is looking over his shoulder.

    • #7

      Pipe down man. It was against the Jags 3rd stringers. It was an open competition. Kelly picked the best QB and it was obvious. Period.

      • Adam

        Hey, #7, he’s entitled to his opinion just like anyone else is. So lay off with the pipe down.

        • #7

          I don’t have to “lay off” anything bro. And “pipe down” is not offensive. Was not talking to you

    • Dutch

      I think you’re over exaggerating Foles showing against future used car and sports equipment salesmen. Most of the guys Foles lead those drives on will be lucky to be flipping hamburgers in another week. He should have gotten a big boost to his confidence after those drives.

      Foles would have done no better against the Jags first team defense as they were game planned to take away the run and short routes leaving Foles with no options. It was not difficult to see the Jags were flooding the short zone and leaving one safety over the top. Foles can’t exploit a single safety defense, and no less one with extra rushers coming from stunts and twist on the interior of the offensive line.

      Still in his showing the other night he only threw one pass that traveled more than 8 yds…..

      • Bdawk20

        None of the above changes what we know about Mike Vick. Vick missed many opportunities even with the Jaguars change in zone because he couldn’t figure out to follow the scheme. He had open receivers, he missed them because they were not wide open when he decided to throw to him. He cannot pass with anticipation and that is going to kill us.

        • Dutch

          Nor does it change what we know about Foles after watching him last season and through a open competition in this preSeason, and that is he’s a greater risk handling the ball than Vick and doesn’t have the heart to throw a pass through a defense greater than 8 yards.

          There’s noway you can describe foles as accurate with anticipation and placement being he’s never thrown a accurate pass against an actual defender. Check downs are usually passes to receivers and backs that have no coverage underneath the defense and zones.

          • #7

            Hence the Mr Checkdown nickname I bestowed upon him

          • Bdawk20

            Right, because Foles made none of those throws last year. Of course he made mistakes, but he makes them at a similar rate to a 10 yr veteran that everyone is making out to be the best QB.

          • Dutch

            there are mistakes, like forcing the ball when you don’t have the arm to squeeze a ball into a tight window…….. then there are simply things certain QBs can not do, and hitting the long ball is simply something at this point in his career and development Foles simply can not do. You seem to confuse the two.

            The world knows, Foles simply can’t make the throws Mike Vick can, nor is he as accurate in any situation. That’s not to say he will not built the confidence and strength, it’s just he’s not yet able to see the opening and exploit those opening with his lack of velocity.

            Foles is going to be ok if he’s not served up before his time. The kid is not now a long or short term solution but I believe he will be in another year of learning and drills. He was not ready last year it just a good thing he was not destroyed in the process of messing with Andy Reid.

        • #7

          Vick shall never miss an open man ever.

          Is that the criteria Bdawk20? Not being a smart a.. I’m just interested in what your expectations are for Vick. The bar sure seems super high since it appears that you expect him to have a perfect game every week

          • Bdawk20

            How much money did we pay Vick over the past few seasons? He was one of the, if not the highest, paid QB’s in the league. What expectations do YOU have of him? Mine are equal to the money we pay him.

          • #7

            For one it’s not your cal to make as far as the money. Talk to Howie bro. I bet if you were in the NFL, you would not be asking for less money.

            So your logic is;

            80 million bucks means he better be perfect or he sucks, correct?
            No matter the disfunction around him, getting drilled in 2 seconds time.

            If you’re using amount paid to a player as your bar, the you’re misguided. Many guys that are getting 80 mil that are worse than Vick and are praised and SUPPORTED BY THEIR OWN FANS instead of wishing injury on their starting QB

          • RIP illa

            All they do is just keep pushing the bar for Vick further and further back while moving it shorter or closer for Foles. You’re absolutely right…in their minds, in order to justify Vick starting over Foles, Vick cannot have a bad game. Vick can not make mistakes of any variety. Vick must be perfect. They change it and move it back constantly for Vick. It’s f’n ridiculous

  • LostInChiTown

    Does anyone else wonder how much better Avant’s career could have been with a different offense or in a different time? Reid never had the patience for short passes or a possession offense, instead choosing to go for either big chunk plays or screens, so he way underused Avant. And today’s players are much faster than players were even a decade or two ago when Avant would have been much closer to average in speed.

    Let’s play who am I describing:
    Just over 6′
    Just over 200 lbs
    Ran the 40 in just over 4.7 seconds
    Runs impeccable routes
    Has some of the best hands in the league.

    The main thing missing from Avant has always been his run after the catch ability and his ability with the ball in his hands. But in terms of his ability to get open and catch the ball, I don’t think there’s any reason he couldn’t have had multiple 1,000 yard seasons in his career.

    By the way, what all time great was I describing above? It should be obvious. And no, I’m not saying Avant is his equal. Just making a point that Avant could have had a significantly better career if things played out differently for him.

    • nicksaenz1

      Rice

    • #7

      YAC is what hurts him, but I would still want him on my team any day

    • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

      I always underestimated Avant – but after watching him make some pretty awesome grabs I retract any bad thoughts I’ve ever had about him. lol

      • #7

        The man can play

    • Richard Colton

      come on. Rice may be the greatest player in the history of football. He was showing flashes of dominance with Rich Gannon and Matt Hassleback at QB – and I’ll take McNabb and Vick over either of those guys. Avant’s a nice 3rd receiver. I like him a lot. but come on.

      • Maggie

        Greatest receiver no doubt. Mind you, he played with 2 of the greatest QB’s throwing to him most of the time, a great RB or two and a good O line. And leave us not forget the coaching. So many, not necessarily you Richard, forget that football is a team game.

    • B-West

      I’m curious to see Reid’s offense in KC. I always thought he adjusted his offense to fit his QB. Both McNabb and Vick were much better deep ball throwers. McNabb did not have the accuracy to consistently hit guys in stride for YAC. Vick lacks the ability to anticipate throws needed for short passes.

      Reid has those West Coast offense roots, I’ll be curious to see if he brings back some of his quick pass/YAC concepts.

      • Maggie

        “I always thought he adjusted his offense to fit his QB”? Are you mad? The only time the play-calling was “adjusted to fit the QB” was when FOLES was breaking in. And Marty M was QUOTED as saying that they would revert to throwing downfield 50-60 times again after a few games. Andy Reid adjusted to nothing since @2005.

        • B-West

          I’m just gonna assume sarcasm to save time.

          • Jp

            @Bwest – really? Reid adjusted to his talent? There’s little evidence of that in all my years of watching. Reid was and likely is a system guy. Systems can work with the right pieces, but I will take a coach who designs around his talent first every time.

          • B-West

            Yes, he did. He was a pass first guy, but within his scheme, he adjusted his passing concepts to fit his QB. To overcome McNabb’s inconsistency, he adjusted his offense to go after big chunks. Long developing routes that opened big windows. He was able to do that because of McNabb’s elusiveness in the pocket. It all worked together for many years.

            I don’t want to get into defending Reid, because as I said before, it would probably be a waste of time. But for evidence I would point to his overall record and his record after the bye. For in game adjustments, he was simply not good. Give him time to gameplan and assess what his guys could do? He got the best out of them.

            I look forward to that point in time when fans begin to realize how good of a coach Andy Reid was for Philly.

          • knighn

            Andy Reid was a very good coach. He was and remains a very flawed coach. For all of his flaws, he brought the longest extended streak of success to the Eagles since 1960. He made the Eagles a consistent contender.

            I hope, in time that fans realize that Andy Reid was a good coach for Philly. I hope, ultimately, that Chip Kelly ends up as a better coach for Philly, because that will mean that the Eagles will finally have their Super Bowl win…

    • Septhinox

      Indeed, you have a point.

      However, Rice’s speed isn’t applicable in today’s NFL. There weren’t offensive linemen faster then him at the time. Today, Lane Johnson’s number would be more impressive. Lol

    • RIP illa

      Ugh…I really hate the Jerry 40 time narrative. Rice was obviously faster than what he ran in the 40. Players do run bad 40s, doesn’t mean they play at that speed. In fact there are some players, in today’s game, that train for running the 40 the whole time after their season and leading up to the combine or their proday; and these players run a great 40 time, but when game time comes or if you review their game tape, they don’t actually play at that speed. They play slower. So I guess you believe Burfict is as slow as his 5 sec 40 time?!

  • Dutch

    Bamiro is BIG. I’m fascinated with how well he moves for a guy his size. It’s exciting to imagine his developing into a stud tackle in 18 to 24 months. If the Eagles can be successful in developing his conditioning, footwork and technique over time, he’s only 22 years old.

    This could be the steal of 2013. It’s probably worth putting him in early on the punt team to get familiar with picking up rushers.

    • LostInChiTown

      To all those who were down on Roseman – or even downright abusive of him – pay attention to this kind of thing. Our last two drafts have the potential to be graded as downright fantastic:

      Cox, Kendricks, Boykin, Lane Johnson, Bennie Logan, Curry, Kelce, Bryce Brown, Polk, Ertz… We could have several pro-bowlers from those drafts.

      Bamiro was a rookie free agent. He’s in the hands of the coaches now, but there’s no denying that he has the physical tools to excel. If he does pan out (heck, if he’s a career back-up!), Howie has shown the ability to hit on 1st round talent (Cox and Johnson), mid round talent (Kelce and Logan) and late round talent (RB’s).

      • #7

        Seems like Kelce gets too much credit. Maybe I’m wrong…

        • Matty Boy

          We got an intelligent starting caliber center in the 6th round. He’s not All-Pro but he was a quality late pick.

          • Dutch

            Kelce’s intelligence can’t be duplicated. It’s good he is fast and able to get out onto the second level. I’m concerned about his knee. Watkins is better built to be a center but he definitely doesn’t have the football IQ, but he has a anchoring base that would work.

      • Adam

        Bamiro has a legitimate shot at being a starting NFL RT down the road. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Eagles start grooming him to take Lane’s spot when he moves over to LT. Maybe 2015 after JP’s contract is up.

    • EaglePete

      ya and about time Casey showed you what kind of player he is……I mean, wait.

  • #7

    Todd Herremans is either hurt or he got old really fast

    • Anon

      I’m surprised Bdawk doesn’t want to bench him for Watkins. After all Herrermans is old, clearly not the future of the franchise. Watkins is young lets see what he can do.

      • #7

        Look yeah you got a point there. He probably thinks Watkins is the next coming like check down Foles

    • RIP illa

      I dont know the answer to that, but all I can say is that Todd played this bad all last year. Got his big contract and he’s been downhill ever since.

  • Joeknowsnada

    Foles executes the offense better, in a sense, since he is not trying so hard on each play to hit the home run. And, just because he executed against third stringers doesn’t overly diminish his body of work. Vick is the starter, and the better QB right now, for a number of reasons, but, Foles is 6′ 6″ tall and can see the whole field, which the barely 6′ tall Mike Vick cannot do. It’s so much easier for Foles to find a passing lane, it’s ridiculous. That’s probably why Mike holds the ball too long and gets happy feet. He is so worried about the passing lane and throwing the INT, he holds it. Foles, at least, does a better job of getting the ball to the receiver on time, in the right spot, etc. Witness the throw to DeSean Jax the other night. Jax was open 1 second or more, stationary, before Vick threw it. Vick, like McNabb, needs to see you open, vs., like Brady, or Manning, throwing to a spot before you are open. That lack of confidence or anticipation will ultimately cost us, big-time. Still, Vick is the better option right now, if you want to win as many games as you can. I, for one, don’t. Let ALL the kids play.

  • Run Eagles Run

    brown is intriguing cause he can pound and he can beat you with speed. he is polk and shady in one… but as its been said, if you cant hold onto the ball, you arent gonna see the field… but youre almost more willing to take a chance on him due to his home run ability. the kid is amazing, just shitty fundamentals. keep in mind, he played barely one season of college, and one season of pro. doesnt have much wear on the tires. he can still learn.

  • Dutch

    You’re going to have to climb down off that wagon. Brown is a liability, pure and simple. He can get loose but if you close in on him he stands a better than good chance of laying the rock on the ground. He’s a marked man. Polk also fumbled, but you have to be intrigued with his possibilities. I’m rooting for Brown, but Polk seems at this point to be a more reliable back and just as productive. Flat out the Eagles are pretty deep at running back and that is a nice advantage.

    This week I hope not to see Brown, Polk or Shady. It’s time to give the newbies a chance to see if they can carry a game. I wouldn’t even play Foles. There’s nothing to gain playing Foles, Polk or Brown and not worth the injury risk in a meaningless game other than to secure the final 10 spots on your roster.

  • #7

    Man can that dude run though smh

  • Anon

    So you’d play one RB the whole game in a run based offense?

  • Anon

    Agree, i think a lot of that fundamentals coaching he would have gotten in college he didn’t get. It’s amazing that we’re just seeing pure talent right now and fresh legs. We should get as much as we can out of him b/c he’s going to be expensive when it’s time to renew his contract.

  • Run Eagles Run

    Yeah pretty sure there’s only 4 rbs on the roster… polk and or brown will see action.

  • Dutch

    I didn’t think my opinion hinted on the distribution of playing time.

    Do you have any idea what it’s like to run a back the entire 60 minutes of a Football Game?

    The Game must look like it’s running on half speed on your television screen.

  • #7

    He still does

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    ” Do I hope he succeeds?”

    No you don’t.

    In Vick’s “bad” showing he went 18/23 was responsible 237 yards of offense a touchdown and an interception.

    That was a “shaky” game. If that’s shaky we should be good for 9/10 wins if he gets hot…watch out.

  • Dutch

    Similarly, if you base anything on Foles career you come up craps. What has this kid accomplished on any level of Football that makes you think he’s a better product than a 4 time pro bowl QB and recent comeback of the year award winner?

    What are you comparing Foles to if I may ask? What have you seen at any point on any level of Football where Foles as competed to make you believe he can lead a winning effort?

    If you aren’t arguing for Barkley as a possibility to lead a winning effort, you’re wasting your times. There no evidence since high school Foles understand what is required to win at this or any other level. If you claim you know or have information you’re lying to yourself.

  • #7

    In a half almost.

  • Dutch

    When you see the stats for all they are worth and in the full scope it’s ridiculous to claim he was shakey, Laughable.

    I don’t even agree with Sheil he was uneven. He was par or better with his peers with 10 years of experience in game 3 of the pre season.

    Why does he have to be perfect? I thought his decision making was good, he tried to force nothing and as usual tried to keep plays alive when the Jags were employing good defense down field in coverage.

  • Bdawk20

    Did you read the article? DJax said Vick went off scheme and Sheil mentions that Vick missed his opportunities. Those are 2 things you have heard from Mike Vick every year and it is no different this year. So, I am expecting the same results. He gets everyones hopes up and then crushes them because he is not good enough. Of course I hope he succeeds, but how much have we heard about all the work he has put in the past few seasons only to have him regress each year??

  • Max Lightfoot

    Michael Vick seems to be reverting to his scrambling style of hanging onto the ball too long and then trying to win the game with his feet. Do you really think he will last for the 9/10 wins you are talking about? I can’t see it.

    If he cannot dump off the ball immediately, I think he’ll only last about six games before somebody nails him – if Chip doesn’t yank him outta there before that. Vick is definitely better than Foles is for Chip’s plan, but he takes too many chances, IMO. And we have some pretty good DEs in the NFC East. Not wishin’ harm on MV, just sayin’.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Good point. Left that out.

  • Dutch

    Everyone was watching the game, this needs no describing. Vick finished the game 15 for 23 and accounted for 247 of the Eagles 435 yards on offense.

    It’s utterly ridiculous to make any argument against that kind of production against a first team NFL defense to claim the back up who flashed against future insurance representatives, and credit collectors should be the starter.

    I read a few articles by morons promoting such nonsense. These idiots would bench Manning, Wilson, Flacco and a few other playoff caliber QBs based on their week 3 showing in the preSeason as well.

    That’s the drivel you get from writers who never played the game and arm chair fans who similarly never touched a football.

  • EaglePete

    Its almost as if this team (how its made up, whoever is starting) cant seem to get out of its own way sometimes with the TOs. It could be some type of repeat as last season, only it just cant be as bad. I hope Im wrong, its just disconcerting

  • #7

    They would never notice anyway. They only focus on the mistakes, then they get hyped up on a bunch of 5 yard checkdowns from Foles because he “runs the offense better/faster) even though it was timed in Carolina game I think that Vick was running it faster/better

  • #7

    Well he better hurry up or he’ll be laid up on that bench

  • Dutch

    I root for Brown, but watching him is stressful. I believe the issue is inexperience. And no tackling at practice isn’t any help to Brown. He needs to be mauled at practice to he’s able to detect defenders coming after the ball.

    I’d give him a raise conditioned on him carrying the football everywhere he goes as he doing everything that comes up in a day and fine him if he’s caught without the ball in his hands.

  • MAC

    Come after Shady’s crown? McCoy is like 24 years old and top 5 back in the league. Brown is a solid back, but coming after Shady’s crown is not ever happening. McCoy is honestly head and shoulders above most backs in league and Brown is not even in the conversation as a RB that could unseat shady.

  • Bdawk20

    Yes,except Foles played 2/3 games this pre-season against first team defenses and performed almost as good as Vick, statistically, but better in my opinion stylistically. So there’s that.

  • RIP illa

    Couldn’t of said it any better!

  • Bdawk20

    Recent means 3 seasons ago. That was his best year, and it is a blip on the radar with the rest of his performance. Vick was awarded one of the largest contracts for a QB, but he didn’t cash in on it because his performance tanked. The playbook is out on Vick, he is going to give us the same old flashes of brilliance bogged down by his lack of consistency.

  • Bdawk20

    His interception was a forced throw.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Agreed. I re-watched the game. Didn’t seem shaky – he did bolt the pocket pretty quickly in the beginning – but pressure was coming and you can’t blame the guy after the 2012 he had.

    “Feel pressure” Get the hell out of dodge. lol

  • Bdawk20

    Vick completes two passes: 1) comeback routes and 2) bombs. Ask him to hit a slant and it won’t happen. Ask him to lead receivers on WR/RB screens, and he makes them stop and catch it. Those little mistakes give up valuable yardage.

  • EaglePete

    not sure if it was you who was all about Harbor and killing Casey last week?

    Money for this team means little, they have plenty of money to spend so that doesnt bother me much. Bills would have to be willing to trade first which I dont think is happening. We can dream though.

  • Richard Colton

    the guy you want to put ahead of Casey on the depth chart? 0 targets, 0 catches. Sheil didn’t even bother to critique his play, because (as everyone else knows) Harbor is the #4 TE. Casey had a few really outstanding blocks last night too.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    I’d prefer to keep harbor. 4 TEs seem like something Kelly wants and has plans on using.

  • EaglePete

    oh no, I didnt want to start this all over again haha, I just saw the stat line above and watched a bit of the game, certainly didnt study his play.

  • Dutch

    Casey’s blocking wasn’t obvious against the Jags or he must to have been on the outside, off screen targeting defensive backs.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “I’d give him a raise conditioned on him carrying the football everywhere
    he goes as he doing everything that comes up in a day and fine him if
    he’s caught without the ball in his hands.”

    lol. That’s incentive. But I think he’s just gonna have to learn to feel the pressure and cover up when they are close – only experience is going to make that happen. Once again. I have faith. lol

  • Richard Colton

    Its not an issue. Dutch was wrong. The sun rises in the East. Harbor is the #4 TE who may or may not make the team. It’s beyond me.

  • Richard Colton

    Get better at? He’s 33. He’s been playing this way his entire career. He takes coaching like a cat takes to water. This is who Mike Vick is. That’s obvious. The good news is – through three games he’s demonstrated that he can run CK’s offense. And he looked pretty good doing it.

  • TC

    Agreed … we are pretty stacked at TE now …

  • Richard Colton

    Ridiculous. Pass protection was good after the first series. He held the ball too long. No matter how good protection is, the pocket will eventually collapse.

  • Dutch

    Did you miss the part of that throw when Herreman was throw into Vick’s lap impeding his follow through on that throw? Or you conveniently ignored that portion of the play? I see you overlooked it as an example and went right to it being a forced throw.

    Eerily similar to the red zone interception Foles threw last week in the end zone, with a defenders latched onto his legs climbing up to his waist.

  • Anon

    Gus Bradley — I was totally with you until that point.

  • Dutch

    the point you refuse to accept is that Foles at this junction of his career can not give this offense anything better he proved that in losing the open competition for the job. I would be equally for putting in another QB if we had one better on the roster but the clear and simple fact is we don’t have a better option.

    You appear to be lobbying for going backwards to a player, Foles that leaves the Eagles with no chance of having a successful season. That’s not a trade 81% of the Eagles fans are willing to accept.

  • Bdawk20

    Right, but he was in his lap after how many seconds in the pocket?? Foles end zone INT was a poor play. Regardless if there were guys in his face, he messed up. That said, this is his 2nd year and he makes the same mistakes as Vick. Foles is not the long-term answer as I have been saying, but he is a better option for Vick. More value to the Eagles to trade Vick than keep him. I hear Buffalo has a safety and they need a QB…

  • Anon

    He’s already improved from last year — he ran and slid or got out of bounds. Notice no one applauded that change from just last week (but he’s not coachable). No fumbles — different from last year — still not mentioned. He’s working to throw the ball out of bounds (but he’s gotta get out of the pocket to do it) he threw a pick, but it’s preseason and he’s working on it. But to say there’s no change is silly.

  • Dutch

    I still think that has more to do with the protection provided by the offensive line than anything else Mike is doing.

    By virtue of a better line, Vick is certain to have a better year. Same with Foles, he’ll have a much improved 2013 when and if called upon than he had in 2012.

    However, Foles will not be ready until his mechanics come second nature and he doesn’t have to think them before setting up properly. That will come with reps in practice.

  • Dutch

    did the coach not speak for himself when he said, mike played well and in those cases where the Jags employed good defense down field he tried to extended the play for us, sometimes you have to throw the ball away and get back to another play?

    Do you understand what he meant?

    This is not a throw the ball away offense, there is always the option to run if everything is covered. First you would have to know or see the Jags were flooding the short zone. In a case where the short zones are flooded, check off routes are negated, and running is a tougher option because the box is full of defenders.

    What was perfect about what you are complaining about is that Vick never forced balls into coverage. When the Jags blitzed from that formation, he either found openings or ran to move the chains.

    The guy accumulated more than 247 yds of the 400yds of Eagles offense. How much more could he have done? Run the premium seating valet parking crew?

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Reminds me of 2011 actually. There were so many Non-QB errors on offense and defensive breakdowns that you couldn’t have Vick’s mistakes AND their mistakes AND win games – I’m hoping the TO and penalty mistakes cease – as I said on another blog – If Vick isn’t fumbling – no one else is allowed to fumble. lol

  • Dutch

    Vick may not be much better, but he proved in this competition to be superior to Foles. Based on the body of work of both over the last 5 years, and that includes Vick coming out of prison, Vick’s a better risk than Foles at this point.

  • Dutch

    Well Kelly and the overwhelming majority of Eagles supporters disagree with your assessment. A few Eagles loyalist believe as you on this subject. Pretty much the same segment that thought Kevin Kolb was the heir apparent to replacing McNabb.

    A simple fair and equal competition means nothing to people like you. That is not going to gain much traction on his issue and come off as sour grapes. You demanded an open and fair competition now you don’t like the obvious results. You’ll never be satisfied. It’s clear Foles has a lot of work to do to be better than Vick in his absolute worse year and depending on who is invited to camp next year that may not be good enough for Foles to start then.

  • Bdawk20

    Actually, re-watch the Patriots game. He completed throws to guys who had defenders on their backs by leading the receiver into open space. It’s not that hard to understand. Quicker release, more accurate throws (although, yes, they are shorter, but not as short as you think), and runs the offense as intended. Why do you want a QB who is going to break scheme when he cannot dissect what is in front of him??

  • Bdawk20

    Thanks for the tired cliche.

  • Bdawk20

    Doesn’t make sense. I watch the Eagles and Vick plays for them, remember? If you read the post I was responding to, you would see that anon commented that the improvement he has seen in Vick is that he is sliding and running out of bounds. So comprehend before you reply please.

  • Bdawk20

    Chip Kelly believes in Michael Vick the same way that Andy Reid did. The consistency here is that Vick gets all of his coaches fired, so whatever you want to believe, that is the truth.

  • guest1

    Stop it…Foles is not the second coming of Montana. He is serviceable at best, and is not going to light up the NFL. Yes, Vick has his QB’s issues…but he has been more a a team leader, along with other intangibles. We are not winning the SB this year anyway, and our QB of the future is not Barkley either (now I see why he dropped) and not on this team.

  • #7

    Why can’t you support the team instead of holding your daily “critique every throw Vick makes” show.

  • RIP illa

    Cause he crossed that line, long ago. The line that separates supporting Foles and being a Vick hater.

    Foles supporters can accept that he lost the comp and are still routing for the Eagles to do well. Vick haters are still crying and whining and changing the criteria to suit their needs/hate. Vick must play perfect on every play, whether be it hand off or pass!

  • #7

    And they are proving this to be true that’s for sure.

  • RIP illa

    Exactly

  • #7

    That’s what I’m talking about. It’s as simple as
    That. These Foles supporters just refuse to acknowledge that he got beat down.

  • Bdawk20

    Who’s not accepting it? It is what it is, but I have no idea where all you people get the idea that Vick is going to be any different than he has been his whole career. He had 1 blip on the radar (a blip equals a good season in this case) and everything else has been the same old. He says all the right things about his preparation, but when it comes down to it, he is just not that good and will continue to improvise because he cannot recognize what the defense is giving him.

  • Maggie

    Right. Coaches get fired because of one player. All coaches get fired because of quarterbacks. Coaches don’t get fired because THEY make bad play-calling choices. Coaches don’t get fired because the team doesn’t want to play for them. Coaches don’t get fired because of politics. Coaches don’t get fired because of general managers’ bad drafting/trading choices. You know, the way some twits on here say EVERYTHING wrong with the Eagles is all Roseman’s fault, no matter what. No, according to you, coaches get fired because one quarterback holds the ball or runs a lot. Please.

  • Dutch

    For the love of god, Foles did not have a completion against New England which traveled in the air more than 4 yds to a receiver. How is it possible to not be accurate throwing the ball 48 inches from the line of scrimmage? He lead no body on a four yard completion, the Patriots would have had to play bump and run against the Eagles to have a defender on a receivers back on a 4 yd route and the Patriots played anything but bump and run that night. You’re exaggerating to make a narrative for a mythical improvement in Foles that simply is not there.

    The entire preseason he threw two balls that went 10 yds from the line of scrimmage, one to Cooper was off target and bounced in front of him coming across the middle.

    You’re making like that is some sort of accomplishment for a QB competing in the NFL, well it’s not and part of the reason he just is not good enough right now to start in the NFL.

  • Dutch

    You know what, nobody could have forecast those people who openly support a fair competition in the beginning of this process would not accept the outcome if it involved a honest thorough assessment played out before the football world with an obvious outcome.

    Nobody in Philly could have predicted these results………

  • Dutch

    Foles had two very good receivers at Arizona who were the primary reason Foles was even mentioned in a scouting report. He wasn’t at all accurate as being proven now, but the receivers were a phenomenal and big combination for collegiate players 6’3″Juron Criner, one of the best receivers ever to enroll at the University of Arizona, and a Transfer from Texas 6’4″ Dan Buckner who played with Texas before transferring to Arizona.

    Foles put the ball up deep and both of those guys had the talent to go catch it any where under any conditions.

  • Bdawk20

    Vick is like the attractive girl who you think is amazing looking when you meet her, but then you spend some time with her, catch her without her makeup, have to hold a conversation with her, and then realize she is just a facade. However, there is always another sucker to give her a shot, only to be let down like everyone else. As a fan, we should know better, but most of these people must enjoy punishment.

  • Bdawk20

    Why don’t we just go sign the winningest high school quarterback next year with that logic? Good point, I think that would go over so well.

  • Bdawk20

    Again, throwing logic I have not stated anywhere else into your argument. Why don’t I stop arguing and you just tell me what I mean, because you are really good at it. Let’s see, Vick likes the color purple, but I hate it, so Foles should start. Times yours.

  • Bdawk20

    Do you coach for the Eagles? If you do, you should probably get back to that. If you don’t, then the above means nothing to anyone.

  • nicksaenz1

    Being the best receiver at Arizona and a guy transferring to Arizona from a perennial top 25 program in UT aren’t the most ringing endorsements to 5 star talent, where as Barkley threw to the Biletnikoff winner of 2012 and Leinart had the benefit of throwing to Biletnikoff finalist Dwayne Jarrett. If I wanted to see a spin cycle I’d watch my washing machine.

  • GoBirds1

    whenKelly’s system ask to get rid of the ball in 1.5 seconds,
    Why in 19 of 26 of Vicksdrop acks he held the ball for morethan 3 seconds? How is that progress?

  • Andy124

    To be fair, the 1.5 seconds thing has been overblown imo. It’s basically coachspeak, like, if you touch a football you should catch it. That’s not realistic.

    The 1.5 seconds is more of an ideal than an expectation.

    I agree with your main point, just pointing out the problem with focussing on the 1.5 seconds tidbit.

  • knighn

    It is completely true that Vick holds the ball more than most quarterbacks.
    (Sorry – hit enter before I finished my post – more details follow)

    However: an average of 1.5 seconds is simply unrealistic in the NFL (if this is even realistic anywhere). For 2012: the best average Time To Throw is Tom Brady’s at 2.49 seconds. The worst was Russell Wilson at 3.14 seconds. Vick finished second worst at 3.12 seconds.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

    While I feel that Vick should generally try to get rid of the ball faster, I also feel that some of this is simply due to the type of QB that he is. It makes little to no sense for most QBs to try to run as much as Vick. It makes little to no sense to for Vick to always remain in the pocket (i.e. where opposing D-coordinators actually want Vick).

  • knighn

    Ah, the magic of Disqus…

  • MAC

    Your aware he already signed the tender and is in camp as of last week. So not sitting out 10 games