Eagles Wake-Up Call: 5 Players With the Most To Lose

Nick FolesLet’s face it, there are a ton of guys on this roster that will be fighting for something on Thursday night. New coach, new schemes, no favorites. Depth chart written in sand, etc. That’s part of what makes this Eagles preseason so interesting.

Some have more riding on tonight’s tilt against the Panthers than others. Here are the five with the most to gain/lose, in one man’s humble opinion:

Nick Foles

Both quarterbacks played well against the Patriots, though you would have to give Round 1 to Michael Vick. Foles will start against Carolina and has the opportunity to turn the heat up in this quarterback competition.

Chip Kelly will not rush his decision, but there is an advantage to having a starting quarterback named prior to the third preseason game. That is the dress rehearsal; it can only benefit the first unit if the leader is in place for it.

If Vick outshines Foles against the Panthers, there is a chance that Kelly makes up his mind sooner rather than later.

Clay Harbor

The first three tight end slots are spoken for. If Kelly chooses to only keep three, Harbor doesn’t have a real chance of beating out Brent Celek, James Casey or Zach Ertz. Fortunately for the former fourth-round pick, the new head coach is tight-end centric. That means Harbor still has a shot to make it. But it’s no lock. The Missouri State grad had three grabs for 47 yards against the Pats. Another showing like that, and he may convince Kelly to carry four tight ends. (And no, I don’t think he makes it as a receiver.)

Russell Shepard

Shepard, aka Sheil’s camp crush, had a real strong start to the summer. He has cooled of late. Meanwhile, Greg Salas has really come on. He led the Eagles with three catches for 54 yards and a touchdown against New England and has had a strong showing on the NovaCare practice fields as well. Right now DeSean Jackson, Riley Cooper, Jason Avant and Damaris Johnson are the top four receivers. If the Eagles decide to keep six , Shepard and Salas can both make it. If they go with five, they need to choose one, and Salas appears to be ahead.

Clifton Geathers

The 6-8, 340-pound d-lineman seems to have the coaching staff intrigued, but intrigue will only take you so far. With the likes of Bennie Logan, Damion Square and Vinny Curry coming on strong, defensive line spots will be at a premium. Geathers needs to prove he belongs.

Earl Wolff

The rookie safety ran with ones some this week. Defensive coordinator Billy Davis would not be opposed if Wolff rose up and snatched one of the starting safety jobs. This is his chance to prove that he deserves legitimate consideration.

WHAT YOU MISSED

Vick, through the eyes of his brother Marcus.

Kapadia, after a thorough defeat last year, attempts to predict the 53-man roster.

Kelly is expecting Jason Kelce to lead the offensive line.

WHAT THEY’RE SAYING

Kent Babb of the Washington Post wonders how successful Kelly’s up-tempo approach will be without an elite QB.

It was successful in New England, which had 92 offensive snaps in a December 2012 game, because Tom Brady is the league’s best quarterback. Without an elite passer, can Kelly lead a proper revolution?

When the league watches, deciding whether to copy the trend, coaches and executives will look first at the quarterbacks. After all, this is what these innovations are meant for: A way into the postseason for teams without one of the NFL’s best dozen passers. Kelly has a quarterback problem — Vick is 33 and injury prone, Nick Foles lacks mobility, and Matt Barkley is a rookie — so the spotlight will be on how teachable his offense can be.

The Eagles  are the seventh most valuable team in the NFL at $1.3 billion, according to Forbes. The top 6? Cowboys (2.3), Patriots (1.8), Redskins (1.7), Giants (1.55), Texans (1.45) and the Jets (1.38).

The NFL’s 32 teams are worth, on average, $1.17 billion, 5% more than last year. The Cleveland Browns, a lousy team for years in a midsize market, sold for almost $1 billion last year.

In contrast, the world’s top 20 soccer teams have a mean value of $968 million. The average worth of Major League Baseball’s 30 teams is $744 million. And average values for the National Basketball Association and National Hockey League, also each with 30 teams, are $509 million and $282 million, respectively.

COMING UP

Game day. Eagles-Panthers, 7:30 from the Linc. We’ll get you ready.

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  • Media Mike

    Kent Babb is a fvck-tard. He mentions Brady running Kelly’s system, but then says Foles can’t run it because he isn’t mobile enough. When did Tom Brady become Carl Lewis?

    • Andy124

      Totally, except that’s not actually what he said.

      • Media Mike

        He mentions Brady running the system, then goes on to say one of Kelly’s QB “problems” is a lack of mobility on the part of Foles. How is that “not actually what he said?”

        • Andy124

          Because his paragraph is poorly constructed and more or less incoherent. He’s not really saying anything.

          First he says Kelly lacks an elite passer. Ok, so far so good.

          Then he declares that these inovations are for getting teams that lack one of the top 12 qb’s in to the playoffs. Sounds reasonable enough.

          Then out of the blue, he states that Kelly has a qb “problem”, and lists some common knocks on each of the guys. In the context of his previous statements, this is meaningless. In fact, he already stated that Kelly lacks an elite passer, so he’s really just repeating himself without stating any kind of conclusion.

          He never states that Foles’s footspeed will stop him from running this offense. He merely stated that Foles is slow. You drew the conclusion you expected because it’s one you’re so used to fighting against. Hell, that might even be what the guy was trying to say. But if that was his intent, he failed miserably.

    • GEagle

      Not to mention I think Foles runs circles around immobile Brady? I can’t see Brady playing shooting guard lol

  • THROW UP IN THE HUDDLE

    Why not trade Trent cole and b done with it … He has digressed the past two seasons … It’s time to cut the cord … Get a player or get some draft picks… Don’t cut a young guy with potential for a old guy that can’t get to QB no more … Now they want him to drop into coverage …SMH

  • ReggieKush

    So many Vick haters… geesh Vick is ELITE, as bout Elite as you can get on the football field. He’s a human highlight reel. Once Vick blew out washington back in 2010 the NFL was like “GET THE EAGLES ON PRIMETIME” now we all know what happen but to say Vick isn’t elite means Kent Babb probably never even put on shoulder pads. We need more writers with Football Experience not just IQ.

    • BirdGang

      Sorry man Vick is one of my favorite players but to say he is elite is a joke. The only elite QB’s are Rodgers, P Manning, Brees, Brady. That is it. People toss the word elite around like a football. Vick is a good qb but def not elite.

    • Mr. Wu

      You all know I am a Vick guy but he is not an elite qb….. I mean cmon. He is however an elite football player and anyone that denies that doesn’t know football. When every single team you face game plans for you like you are the most dangerous man on the field you are in a league of your own.

      • #7

        Exactly what I said yet I get hammered for it lol.

        • aub32

          He phrased it better lol.

      • Adam

        Why wouldn’t you game plan against Vick? It’s not even a difficult game plan. Send an extra blitzer, and collect your turnovers and sacks.

        • #7

          Adam. When you eat your words this year, you be sure and tell me how they taste

          • Adam

            Stop getting so hurt when someone criticizes Vick. Vick has always struggled when a team sends an more than 4 at him. This is not deniable.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          If it were that simple our divisional rivals would be eating our lunch…oh wait…

          • aub32

            three likes from me

          • Adam

            When was the last time Vick played an NFC East team? Week 17 vs the Giants? Who ate whose lunch? First drive of the game the Giants sent 6 and Vick throws a pick. He’s one of the worst in the league against the blitz..This is not news.

          • aub32

            So you point out the only game Vick started and finished with a loss in th division. Great job. It’s like the other 9 times he whooped up on them boys don’t even count.

          • Adam

            Why wouldn’t I judge a 33 year old QB by the most recent game he’s played?

            How about this, how about you show me some numbers that proves what I’m saying is wrong about Vick vs the blitz.

          • aub32

            http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2012/10/09/mike-check-vick-eagles-beat-the-blitz/

            http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/moving_the_chains/Myth-vs-reality-Vick-against-theh-blitz.html

            Vick isn’t the greatest QB against the blitz, but he isn’t as bad as you imply. By the way Brady is 35 and looked terrible against the Ravens. So should I judge him based on that? Well… that wouldn’t be fair because he was spot on in the preseason game. Damn, but so was Vick. So thanks for talking out of your butt and being wrong on all accounts. Look forward to you trying again after you bring real info to the table instead of ridiculousness.

          • Adam

            Michael Vick isn’t the greatest against the blitz? Understatement of the year. He had the 2nd worst passer rating in the NFL last year against the blitz before he got hurt, only Russell Wilson was worst.

            It’s hilarious you linked an article from 2011 to support Vick against the blitz. The same year he has a 65.5 passer rating and 11 picks against the blitz, near the bottom of the league. Did you watch the Cardinals game that year? They blitz the A gap all day long. Vick was 5 for 21 against the blitz that game and threw 0 TD’s and 2 picks.

            I’m fairly certain you just googled “Vick” and “blitz” and just linked 2 articles that somewhat sounded good on Vick. Fact is that both of those articles says that he’s showing improvements, which means he wasn’t good in the first place.

            It is widely known around the league that Vick has always struggled with making pre-snap reads, calling audibles and assigning hot routes. This is nothing new and I can’t believe I’m actually debating this. Middle of the pack QB’s like Vick are there because they have exploitable weaknesses in their game. Vick’s pre snap awareness has always been an issue and one of the reasons he was never able to make the leap into the upper echelon of QB’s. Luckily for Vick Chip’s offense will basically making the defense show their cards, so if he’s unable to make these reads now then he won’t be the starter for long.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Um…he has the best divisional record of any QB in the East over the past 3 years.

            Seriously?

    • GEagle

      That’s right Reggie…we are all just Vick haters. We would all rather not win games then play the elite Mike Vick…The Man, stays trying to keep the Elite Vick down…thanks for your added wisdom

  • JofreyRice

    Does Wolff really have a lot to lose? A 5th round rookie that’s GUARANTEED a roster spot, because of the other trash at safety, promoted to starter b/c of continued horrible play by Allen. The only thing I see him losing is the chance to start for a pro football team from day 1 of his career, which is not a given for a 5th round pick at arguably the most complicated position on defense.

    The dearth of talent in the secondary is going to keep giving Wolff chances to make his mark beyond this game. Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman have been proving they stink for yearsnow , and the Eagles probably STILL can’t cut them both.

    • Token

      Id be glad if he started for a couple reasons.

      1. It gives him the entire season to show that hes not very good. Forcing them, I would hope, to properly address the position next offseason. Instead of playing the, “well we expect Wolff to take another step this year with more playing time” card.

      2. Theres the outside chance that he surprises us and becomes a player. We KNOW Allen and Coleman arent NFL players. Why keep beating that dead horse every year. Id rather watch an unknown, let him prove himself one way or the other. Im sure theres been players that look like garbage on their college tape and then blossom into NFL players. Maybe he is one?

    • aub32

      I agree. If anything, he has more to gain than he does to lose.

  • Scott J610

    Hmm…not sure I agree with some of this. Even if they keep Harbor, he’ll rarely see the field, so he’s pretty much irrelevant. And Wolff has nothing to lose because he’s a lock to make the team.

  • Aunt Esther

    Cut Celek and keep the much more versatile Harbor.

    • cliff henny

      celek keeps dropping balls, could be the surprise cut.

      • aub32

        No way Celeck gets cut. He drops passes yes, but he still produces.

        • cliff henny

          his best days are behind him. thought he might get moved pre-draft for a pick. celek showed nothing last year either. like the guy, cant ask for any more effort than he has shown. as i said, would be the surprise cut, but i wouldnt complain. not calling for his head like i am coleman, but he needs to step up.

          • EaglePete

            Im not a celek fan anymore myself but no way he gets cut like above posters said. His blocking comes into play also. That toughness doesnt do much for me, his lack of speed and bad hands negate it imo. Hes still a vet at this point and brings something to the table in all areas so he stays.

          • All In Eagles

            I agree he does need to step up but saying his best days are behind him is a bit of a stretch. No one did anything last year so using that to single him out isn’t reasonable. I may be wrong and his best days are done-zo but time will tell I guess.

      • All In Eagles

        I don’t agree. Celek won’t be cut unless he gets caught slashing CK’s tires in the parking lot. The dude plays too hard and is the white TE version of Marshawn’s Beast Mode. His catch last week, he clobbered that tackler. Also, he’s our best blocker and with every report saying Ertz was horrific at it, he’s not going anywhere.

    • #7

      Celek better catch the ball or be will at least be benched

  • Garrett

    A 6-8, 340lbs Dlineman? That could be quite the plug in the goal-line formation. Gees

  • firstdown

    trade Celek 4 an outside linebacker, corner, or safety……..personally i will flip if Kurt Colemans on the 53…..

  • jay

    Can kendrick move outside and let knott start inside along with ryan is that a better move for the defense

    • firstdown

      could happen after a couple a games, the coaches may get tired of watchin Cole spin in space….

  • MAC

    Has anyone heard anything about K. Phillips and if he is even an option to start or play? I have been traveling for work so I have kept up on news to an extent, but not my usual at this time of year. I saw Phillips in game 1 for a little but have heard very little about him and not sure if that’s bc of injuries or what.

    • EaglePete

      apparently he hasnt looked up to speed so not good signs. He could still be recovering and trying to get back to 100% however. I think we were all hoping for the player of old but so far not looking great but I suppose a small chance it could still pan out.

  • Andy124

    280 comments and counting. Think people are excited about the game tonight? Most interesting pre-season ever?

  • #7

    @TMcManus247:disqus and Shiel. You guys are going to get me fired from my job with this site. i sat here and blogged for 8 hours smh.

    Can’t wait for the game tonight. A preseason game. Unbelievable

  • #7

    Token you just can’t help commentingon that I post lol. One thing I do know, defenses gamelan for Vick like he is elite and that stands for something. Do they gamelan for Foles like he’s elite? Does anyone fear Foles? Hell no. I say this time and time again. It’s ateam game and that’s how I look at the game. When Vick has protection he is elite. Those other QBs you people mentioned, they’re great, but a QB is only as good as the people around him and are performing at a high level.

    With Vick, I don’t look at the numbersandI wish that people would watch the games instead of looking at the stats.

    Look at MattStafford. The guy throw for a million yards, but is he elite? I just look at the game differently. You keep hanging on to your stats

  • THROW UP IN THE HUDDLE

    As far as the money aspect .. I understand that … But as for production he sucked the past two years I haven’t heard his name mentioned once… thru out TC or the first Preseason game… He’s not a OLB.

  • aub32

    It pains me to do this 7, but I have to disagree with you. There’s a difference between good and elite. Did you see Brady the other night. That was elite. He was playing with a bunch of no names, and he made them look like stars. Mallet played with the same guys, and they were dropping passes and looking like scrubs again. That’s the difference between elite and good. Brady doesn’t need talent around him. He’s like the fairy godmother of football turning those pumpkins into star receivers. Look at what happens to most of these guys when they leave Brady. Vick on the other hand is good, but not so good that he can overcome having no talent around him and a bad defense. Look at Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Manning. They cover for their defense. When the defense gives up 25, they put up 30. When the defense gives up 35, they put up 42. That’s what it means to be an elite QB in this league. Vick isn’t there. He needs protection, weapons, a system, and some help on D from time to time.

  • Token

    Unfortunately, many of us have all had to watch Vick for far too long. Thats why we want him gone.

    As a Falcons fan Im sure you have watched Vick a bunch. Can you really sit there and tell me he is any better of a player now than he was then? He hasnt fixed his faults in 10 years. And now you think he will do it at 33?

    Ill tell you one thing, thats a lot of seasons of everything being everyone elses fault.

    I gotta say too, its tiring hearing about protection. EVERY QB in the NFL looks great when they have all day to throw. But thats not this league. That rarely happens. The elite ones are quick and decisive and make the right choices with defenders falling at their legs.

    It is weird that such a big “fan of the team” loves a single player so much. IMO players are simply interchangeable pieces that I want assembled in such a way that leads to a team championship. I cant fathom following a single player wherever he goes. It is a very odd thing to see a grown man follow another grown man from team to team.

  • #7

    I’m justjust not a numbers guy. Of all the QBs that you guys name as “elite” Brady is the one who is truly elite and I say that because he’s only played with one great wr.

    That being said, Brady had played in the same system his entire career. I’m sure that helps as that is rare in any sport

  • Dutch

    Your criteria and those assigning the distinction of Elite has to be Super Bowl winning QBs. That being the case Differ would be considered an elite QB. Now, Rodgers and Brees, neither have performed as they had since their appearances in those super bowls basically because the support personnel surrounding them has changed along the offensive line.

    Since Carl Nicks has been out Brees has not performed, with the same receivers as he did in the Saints super bowl run. Brees is your classic drop back QB who has only thrown less than 18 Ints in a season once in his career. So throwing frequent interceptions can’t be a deterrence to whatever standard you’re using for elite status.

    Rogers throws to some of the best receivers in the NFL, behind what was one of the better offensive lines in the nfl. That’s changed this season but the decline began immediately after that Packers super bowl win.

    Neither Rogers or Brees has been able to duplicate the success of a Super Bowl appearance without the support personnel playing with them, if you’re indeed elite I don’t know if that would be the case as it has not been in Brady, Big Ben or Eli’s case.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “Elite QBs can win games in spite of having nothing else to work with, no defense or offensive skill players. Vick showed in 2011 that he could not do that.”

    The idea of an “elite” QB is dumb. There are two TWO QBs who warrant the label that are currently playing – Brady and P. Manning – they are head and shoulders above the rest.

    Everyone else is very good to so so.

    The conversation of Vick is different based on when he came into the league. You’re going to see a HUGE transition to Vick-esque players that started with Cam and continue with this years’ QB class – so the definition of “elite” will change.

    As far as Vick he’s a good QB who has the potential to be great. He carried the 2004 Falcons – he carried the 2010 Eagles – in 2011 there was too damn much to overcome – and 2012 was a clusterf**k – even an “Elite” QB wasn’t getting around that one. Even Brady looks human when you hit him.

    Ultimately all that is irrelevant. The only thing that matters now is can he win games in this system. Time will tell.

  • #7

    “Elite QBs can win games in spite of having nothing else to work with,
    no defense or offensive skill players. Vick showed in 2011 that he could
    not do that.”

    @aub32:disqus cmon man. You know better than that. That’s too much credit to give to one player. EVERY QB needs some measure of talent around him…even the great Tom Brady. I see that you never mentioned his o-line. Hell no one does. One of the best in the NFL.

    They say that you build a team from the inside out and if you look at the Patriots and Eagles and compare them in that way, it’s not even close.

    THATS why Brady is successful. Look what he has around him and he has a HOF coach. People underrate having a great coach. Look what happened to Brees last year. Lost his coach, throws 18 INTS. Yet, he’s still elite?

    The word is thrown around to loosely if you ask me.

  • JofreyRice

    Elite is a tricky word, because it’s kind of nebulous. What is “elite”? Future HOF? Top 3 at the position? Top 5?

    A lot of QBs can be manipulated to play to their strengths, but at the end of the day, I think throwing the ball is the key attribute. The way I’d rank QBs is projecting a 3rd and 8 situation, when the defense knows you’re throwing the ball, and is either dropping everyone back and covering your receivers, or blitzing you. Here’s how I’d rank them:

    1) Rodgers
    2) Brady
    3) Brees
    4) Peyton
    5) Ryan
    6) Luck
    7) Wilson
    8) Kaepernick
    9) Eli
    10) Flacco
    11) RG3
    12) Rberger
    13) Stafford
    14) Cutler
    15) Newton

  • #7

    Agreed for the most part. See my post above about Brady. Also, I didn’t straight up call Vick elite. I said that teams game plan for him like he is elite. That counts for something. I think Vick is elite as far as talent of course, but also by impact and pressure on a defense.

    There are a lot of QBs that are/were considered elite that didn’t put up great numbers. I really don’t care about stats to be honest with you.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Eh…you play to your players strengths. Brady’s been in the same system his whole career. Had Vick stayed with Reeves we’d be having a diff convo I beleive.

    Manning is great football mind – he can play anywhere with anyone. He’s that good. Brady likely can too – but we haven’t seen him anywhere else.

    Rodgers gets defensive help – Brees couldn’t over come his bad defense or loss of his coach – Brady and Manning are elite.

    Vick needs a line – not even an all pro-line just one that’s gonna hold longer than a 1.5/2 second. Remember 2011 the line and defense was bad – in 2012 the line and defense and special teams were bad.

    I think people have WAY too many expectations when Vick is the QB – the team in 2011 and 2012 were bad/dysfunctional in many areas so the idea that Vick or any QB not named Brady or Manning were going to over come that is just a bit ridiculous.

  • aub32

    How did he suck in 2011? He had double digit sacks, despite missing 3 games. Those 3 games, if you remember, Babin couldn’t get a sack because the offenses didn’t have to worry about Cole. He also played the run pretty well. Last year he had a down year, but he was hurt and look at what was going on with the defense, especially the defensive line. You’re right, he’s no OLB, but what else do we have? Who are you putting in his place. Plus if you watched the preseason game you will see he will be rushing the passer more often than not. Also, just because you didn’t hear his name isn’t a bad thing. I haven’t heard much about Demeco. Should we cut him? How about Shady? Should he be on the trade block? Preseason isn’t where you hear about vets, especially vets that rush the passer in a non physical training camp. What are you expecting to hear? Today Cole destroyed the RT and drilled the QB? That’s not gonna happen.

  • #7

    What proof do you have of that and when did I ever day I was a Falcon fan?

    The best thing to do is not assume

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    ” Can you really sit there and tell me he is any better of a player now than he was then?”

    He’s a MUCH better QB now then he was then. The fact that you can’t see that shows just how bias you really are.

  • aub32

    He’s a better QB if nothing else that he’s more humble and actually learning the plays. I get he may not be able to ever replicate what he did in 2010, no QB may ever do that again, but to say he’s the same guy that he was in Atlanta completely ruins any credibility you may have on this topic.

    But since you prefer to go to the stats so much to verify points. How about the fact Vick never threw over 3000 yards in Atlanta. He did that in both 2010 and 2011. He was on pace to do it again in 2012, but he got injured. He also never had a completion percentage over 56,4 in Atlanta. His average completion precentage over the last 3 years is over 60, and that’s in AR’s throw on first, throw on second, F*** it throw on third offense.

  • aub32

    I was with you until that last part. All reports have been that Cole looks better in space than Graham. Also, you keep wanting to see what the young guys can do, depsite the fact we don’t have any young guys to fill in. Do you expect to just start the season playing a bunch of undrafted rookies just to see what happens? What kind of message does that send? Not to mention we will most likely be worse tahn we already appear to be. Not every player is going to be an ideal fit, but you go with your best available option. Right now, I don’t see a better option on this team than Cole. Do you?

  • aub32

    I agrre with everything you said, except I am putting Rodgers in that elite class. The dude has been working with a terrible defense the last 2 years, and was the most sacked QB last year. Yet he still puts up huge numbers and wins games. He also does it in the tougher of the two conferences. I take nothing away from Brady or Manning, but look at their respective divisions the last decade.

  • MAC

    Rodgers is elite and if you question that I think your not watching right. Rodgers passes the eye test and has talent and put up the #’s year in and year out. He won a super bowl and was at his best on the biggest stage. If Nelson and Jones can catch couple passes in the super bowl early Rodgers might have had single greatest Super Bowl as a QB ever. That was against the #1 defense and Pittsburgh has been top 3 defense every year for last 4 years. He has proven he is 100% elite.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    The Green Bay defense is bad in everything but turnovers. They still get plenty of those – and with Rodgers as your QB you’re gonna capitalize. With that said…I’ll give you Rodgers. lol

  • nicksaenz1

    Not Brees?

  • Dutch

    Who puts up any better numbers than Stafford? You have to be careful with numbers. Megatron racked up an impressive 2000 yds last season, he only scored 5 touchdowns. I’m willing to give you yards as a trade off for touchdowns.

  • aub32

    I’m not sure hw much attention you have paid to the packers these past two years, but their defense has been awful. They were decent in 2010 when they won the SB, but they followed that up by going 15-1 with the first or second worst defense in the league. Rodgers carried that team.
    I am not knocking Vick, but to suggest Brady, Rodgers, or Manning couldn’t have done more with last years team is ridiculous. Did you see the all 22 breakdowns? Did you see how many times DeSean was open but overlooked? Now could any of these “elite” QBs have won the SB with this squad. I highly doubt it, but they would have definitely done a better job than Vick. Remember Rodgers didn’t exactly have good protection either last year, as he was the most sacked QB in the league last season.

  • JofreyRice

    Disagree on a minor point.

    Brady’s been on the same team, but he’s played in a number of systems (at a high level) for the Patriots. Charlie Weis’ run-heavy version of the WCO. Josh McDaniels’ record-breaking vertical/option O during the Moss era. O’Brien’s use of multiple TE sets to create matchup problems and use of the seam, and last year an offense featuring the run more, which served as an exemplar of a superfast no-huddle attack.

    That offense has changed and adapted, trailblazing new tactics the rest of the NFL tries to catch up with, almost every year.

  • #7

    BBaaS I agree. I just had that sentiment earlier in this thread. I’m not discrediting Brady at all, but when you play in the same system and have the same coach for your whole career, you can’t help but be great. And yes, Brady has added a great work ethic to that also.

    Vick has so much physical talent, I can see why guys like @Token and @Adam go at Vick so hard. Personally, I think some of it is personal for them. They say they’ve “seen enough of Vick” to make their assumptions, but they seem to always miss seeing the rest of the team that is straight up getting dominated on both sides of the ball and Vick gets blamed because:

    1) He’s Vick.

    2) He’s obviously easy to hate.

    3) They see the amazing plays and expect them to happen every play .

    When we go back and look at the 2011 and 2012 seasons, people only mention Vick. They always seem to forget to mention the rest of the team, and that clown Andy Reid who changes schemes on offense and defense without the players to fit those changes

  • Token

    Cole looked lost in space in the game. Graham isnt any better apparently.

    However, I think right now at this point Graham is probably a better pass rusher. And hes stil young maybe with time he can get better dropping back. Id rather just let the young guy that may possibly have a future here, start over the guy thats leaving as soon as they can stomach the dead money.

    Id start Graham and have Cole rotate in, still playing a good chunk of snaps.

  • Token

    Well lets see, you are a Hawks and Braves fan. But just happen to be a Eagles fan? Who just happen to have a former Falcons QB that you fell in love with?

    Yea, its such a stretch to see whats going on here.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    No – as bad as the line was in 2012 no I don’t think you see too many QBs have success – hit Manning or Brady and see what they look like. Maybe we win 7 games instead of 3 but it’s still a losing season (see Drew Bress and the Saints but for diff reasons.)

    “Remember Rodgers didn’t exactly have good protection either last year, as he was the most sacked QB in the league last season.”

    Rodgers is ALWAYS sacked a lot – even in years the line hasn’t been bad. He really does hold on to the ball too long, but can get away with it – he also buys quite a bit of time with his legs (hence the holding onto the ball too long), but isn’t as fleet a foot as Vick so gets sacked more. That’s not all on his line.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    And while it may seems I’m dogging Rodgers..I’m not – I put him under Manning and Brady – and maybe Big Ben with him BUT Ben has ALWAYS had a top 5 defense and he’s Eli Manning erratic so he may need to go in the “everyone else” pool.

    lol

  • #7

    People don’t mention that Rodgers is the most sacked QB in the league…mainly because he holds the ball to long. This is a known fact

  • Dutch

    I don’t think either could have done more under the same circumstances. Brees dragged that Saints defense, same as Brady in New England, but you have seen the transitions along the Offensive Front which are similar to the Eagles problems and neither Brees or Rogers are now, nor have been able to elevate their respective teams to a position for another deep playoff run.

    Any one of those Quarterbacks if you hit them and hit them hard they’er folding. Manning, Rogers, or Brees, if you are capable of getting in their face and put them on the ground the game’s yours.

    Without a question, if teams were to get to either of those QBs in the pocket like teams got to Vick over the last two years none of them are in a discussion on their effectiveness in the NFL. All are classic pocket qbs playing in classic drop back systems.

  • aub32

    Graham still needs to prove himself in my opinion. He did well in a limited role last year. That’s completely different from starting all season, especially when you factor in his numbers are a tad skewed from abusing that guy in Cincinati. If Graham can show he’s a better pass rusher than Cole, then I am all for him starting. However, as of now Cole has more experience and a wider array of pass rush moves. I think it’s up to Graham to outplay Cole. If he can’t outplay this guy who so many see as declining, then why does he deserve a shot to start. Sorry, but I can never agree with the logic that young guys should play in spite of not having outperformed the vet. Maybe if we have a horrible start and the season is already lost but I can’t see starting the lesser player at the beginning of the season.

  • #7

    Not sure that will make a difference as far as either of them dropping into coverage. Nervous if/when those guys have to cover a back on a wheel route. Eli has been burning us with those for the past two seasons

  • #7

    Well there was a guy that I watched play growing up named Randall Cunningham, which made me a fan of the Eagles. I became a Hawks and Braves fan by default.

    My favorite QB in the NFL is Vick, who I think is a great QB when things are right like other QBs need, and who damn sure is a great football player period..happens to come to my favorite team.

    It all worked out. I followed Vick with the Falcons, but my TEAM has always been the EAGLES…and for a short time and I hate to say it, the Cowboys…ONLY!!! because I grew up in Oklahoma and they were our “local” team. Once JJ thought anyone could coach the Cowboys when they had the triplets, I’ve hated them ever sense.

    Now get off my back of who I’m a fan of. You don’t know me

  • aub32

    Not all but last year the Packers did have offensive line woes.

    We will have to agree to disagree on how Brady and Co would have done on this team last year. I agree the way to stop all 3 or 4 of those guys is to put a hat on them. However, they also would have been able to get rid of the ball faster and make better decisions. personally I think Vick woul have won 5-6 games total had he played all season. I think the 3 top QBs would have won 9-10.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “I think Vick woul have won 5-6 games total had he played all season. I think the 3 top QBs would have won 9-10.”

    Okay. I won’t argue that.

    Edit: I still think you’re being a bit generous with the wins the Top 3 QBs would have gotten. lol

  • #7

    ………….

  • aub32

    Eli definitely goes in the everyone else pool. He can’t even make the playoffs consistently. I put Rodgers at the top just because he’s just about as accurate as Brady, and he can make things happen with his feet. That may not seem so important, but if Brady could have out run a 300+ pound DT, he might have been in the SB.

  • aub32

    I have some faith that even the towel boy knows not to have Graham/Cole matched up against David Wilson.

  • aub32

    “you don’t know me” HAHAHAHAHA love that line

  • Mr. Wu

    awww man….cowboys? smdh I can never think the same of you again.

  • TMcManus247

    Yeah, Wolff is in the “gain” category. Should have made that more clear. He can snag a starting job with a strong showing over the next couple weeks, I think.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Brady is with the same team and same coach. How they switch up the offense is irrelevant – the consistency there is HUGE.

  • #7

    Every offense has to adapt to the times, but you cannot deny the consistency that Brady has had with that organization as a whole.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “…and that’s in AR’s throw on first, throw on second, F*** it throw on third offense.”

    LMAO! I chuckled hard on that.

  • #7

    He’s way better as a QB now than in ATL. I thought it was amazing at the time when he took them on his back to the NFC Championship game..playing sandlot football.

    No QB in NFL history could do that today. Say what you want about it, but it was amazing.

    Someone on here name me a great player that he played with in that 2002 season.

    Don’t worry I’ll wait

  • #7

    LOL

  • #7

    Hey man I was a kid!! lol

  • Adam

    The reason there is consistency in the organization is because of Brady.

  • JofreyRice

    Sure, but Brady’s adaptations have been dramatic. The three offenses he QB’d I mentioned bear almost no resemblance to each other. The implication in the original post was that Brady can’t truly be objectively judged because he’s been in some static, stable offensive scheme for his entire career; that’s not true. I think if you put that guy on Mars, he’d figure out how much he had to take off his throw to hit the out pattern on time.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Exactly.

    JofreyRce is My Adam.

    lol – he can’t help to comment when I speak.

  • Dutch

    So you think that any of the QBs you mentioned in your post would have performed any better than Vick being hit 18 times a game behind that same offensive line over the last two seasons?

    Vick and Phillip Rivers were served up as toast to rushing defenses over the last two seasons. This year look for Rogers, Brees and add in Matt Ryan as red meat for defenses, all three are going to play behind similarly depleted offensive lines.

  • ReggieKush

    If it wasn’t for Vick, there would be no RG3, Cam Newton &, Kaepernick. VIck was idolized by those players growing up. Now that he’s older people can’t give credit were credit is do. smh.

  • Andy124

    So you’re giving credit for RG3, Cam and Kap to Vick instead of to RG3, Cam and Kap. Who has trouble giving credit where it’s due?

  • greenblood20

    And if not for Cunningham no Vick. Fact is, these kids are an improvement over Vick because they know they have to hone skills to go along with their athleticism. BTW, how many Super Bowl titles for any of them? QBs that rely on their legs don’t win titles…

  • Dutch

    Did you take into account each of those QBs had better lines and better receivers who in every case actually attacked the ball in the air? When was the last Eagles receiver who attacked a pass thrown in his area or was consistent in catching a ball in traffic?

    The last receiving threat Vick had to either attack a ball in flight or in traffic was Alge Crumpler.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    People forget that at various times in his career Brady was throwing to some top tier talent (Moss anyone). Not taking anything away from Brady – but come on – Vick was all the falcons had – Matt Ryan – can you imagine what Vick would have looked like with ALL those guys to throw the ball too?

  • aub32

    Not nearly as good as Ryan without that smack of reality. Vick would never have used White, Jones, and Gonzalez to the best of their ability during his knucklehead days.

  • Adam

    Tom Brady’s top receivers in his 3 Super Bowl winning seasons were Troy Brown, Deion Branch and David Givens. About as far from top tier talent as you can get.

  • #7

    A HUMBLE, MATURE and not CODDLED Vick. Arthur Blank was good to Vick, but they put everything on Vick’s back. They learned their lesson on how to build a TEAM. It was a one man show when Vick was down here.

  • MAC

    Brady had Moss for 2 seasons I think. His super bowl wins he did it with Branch, Givens, Troy Brown, and Bethel Johnson. While the undefeated season he certainly had serious weapons, but most of his rings came with guys I mentioned. Brady is elite and can make the WR productive no matter who they are. Not a knock on Vick, but he had Roddy White in Atlanta and did nothing with him. If Vick somehow went to Atlanta now with who they have there he would be backing up Matt Ryan.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Alright…that might be true…but combined with his athletic ability I still think Vick comes out on top.

  • #7

    Yep

  • ReggieKush

    c’mon man, just stop. Vick passed Randall Cunningham with a 53-yard scramble to the right in the third quarter that gave him 4,946 yards rushing, surpassing Cunningham’s mark of 4,928 yards against the buffalo bills in 2011.

    Coming into the game, Vick had rushed for 228 yards on 32 carries. He became the first player in history to throw for more than 400 yards and run for 75 yards in the same game against San Francisco.

    In 2006, he set the single-season quarterback rushing record with 1,039 yards

    When ANY of the QB’s you mentioned gets there, Holla at me

  • Adam

    What jersey Tom Brady is wearing or what head coach he is under is what’s irrelevant when it comes to Tom Brady. The organization is consistent because of Tom Brady, not vice versa. Do you realize the sheer number of receivers who have caught passes from Tom Brady? It’s no coincidence that the Patriots have changed offensive schemes, player personnel and coaching personnel and they still have success. That’s what an elite QB does. Brady will lose 5 of his top receivers from last year and will still have success in NE.

  • JofreyRice

    …You said he was playing with the same system. Big difference. The systems he’s been in are night/day with each other. I agree that there is some level of consistency in that he’s been with 1 coach, but he’s performed at an extremely high level in a number of disparate offenses.

  • Andy124

    Reread your post then my response. You say without Vick there would be no RG3, Cam or Kap, giving credit for their success to Vick. Then you shake your head at others failing to give credit where it’s due.

    The credit for RG3, Cam and Kap belongs to RG3, Cam and Kap. Thus, you are failing to give credit where it’s due.

    Anyway, you’ve grouped yourself in with the extremists, so have a nice day.

  • aub32

    No question. Vick has always had the potential to be an elite player in this game. He was a knucklehead in Atlanta and got by solely on ability. The fact that he could do that is amazing in itself considering how many have failed trying to do the same (cough JaMarcus cough). I think in the right system, with the right talent, Vick can be outstanding. He will still make mistakes, but coaching can help him by calling more run plays when he’s trying to do a little too much. I really want to see where he can take this team under Kelly. He could have a blockbuster season, but again I wouldn’t dub him as elite because of the system and talent in place around him.

  • Dutch

    Ryan up until last season was asked to manage games. He’s just beginning to stand on his own let’s see how it works. at this point ryan still doesn’t have to do much except throw to the guy who Does Not have Double Coverage.

  • Dutch

    The status of being an Elite QB is to easily thrown around. Elite would be a QB despite the personnel he’s playing having the capability of elevating the players on his offense to another level of championship contender. This is a QB who could find success plugging and playing whoever is available.

    There aren’t to many QBs throughout the history of the NFL who possessed those abilities, Brady, Montana, Starbuch and Bradshaw are definitely in that category. Eli, and Big Ben are knocking on the door.

  • #7

    He was coddled in ATL and was never held accountable. He came to Philly humbled.

    I like the way it looks like Kelly will use Vick when he wins this job. Vick just needs to not try to do to much, thats all. That’s where the turnovers happen

  • #7

    Have to agree

  • ReggieKush

    Extremist? We’re talking football here people not the new world order

  • nicksaenz1

    Brees just got done throwing back to back 5000 yard seasons with 40+ TDs. How has he not performed? Oh, I forgot he had to try to overcome the league’s worst D last year so their record fell off a little.

  • #7

    Lol you’re probably right

  • JofreyRice

    Serious question, have you really studied the way Aaron Rodgers throws the football? His knowledge of when and where to throw it, and the velocity and accuracy the guy delivers the ball WAAAAY down the field from a multitude of throwing platforms, i.e. set, on the move, off his back foot, etc?

    If you were teaching a kid how to play QB, you would not want to show him Aaron Rodgers because not many people can do what he does.

    I’d go so far as to say that Rodgers is not only “elite” but should be in the discussion with Adrian Peterson, JJ Watt, Geno Atkins, Calvin Johnson and Von Miller for top players in the entire league, at the moment.

  • #7

    18 INTs and he’s still elite? AND they missed the playoffs too.

    According to some of you on here, an elite QB does not need WRs, an o-line, nor coaching. They just make it all happen by themselves.

    “The elite QB having great players around him?!? What are you talking about @#7!!! you’re an idiot!!”

    lol

  • #7

    TURNOVERS. GIve most NFL QBs multiple chances with the ball and you can win. That’s why I say that if our defense can generate some turnovers, we have a chance. When Vick wins this job, we’re going to score some points

  • Dutch

    I don’t know he holds on the ball to long as much as he’s waiting on down field routes to open, but Rogers and Green Bay so long as Rogers is getting off the ground aren’t going deep in the playoffs again until that issue is no longer an issue.

    Brady, Manning, Brees, or Rogers are capable of beating you if you’re knocking them on their tails.

  • #7

    “Any one of those Quarterbacks if you hit them and hit them hard they’er
    folding. Manning, Rogers, or Brees, if you are capable of getting in
    their face and put them on the ground the game’s yours.”

    EXACTLY

  • Adam

    Every QB that plays the game is going to get rattled if you hit them hard and frequent enough. The difference between Vick and the rest of the guys mentioned is their ability to make the proper pre-snap reads an get the ball out before the blitz arrives.

  • #7

    That’s the same thing that Vick does..that Big Ben does, yet Rodgers and Big Ben gets praised for it and are called warriors. and Vick gets called dumb and accused of not being able to read defenses even though he’s been a starter for 10 or so seasons.

    Can’t fake being an NFL QB. you’ll get eaten alive

  • Dutch

    I’m not discounting he’s a good QB, but Brees isn’t taking the Saints deep in the Playoff getting up off the ground. I seen Dan Marion and Dan Fouts play air ball like that. I’m not to impress with Brees when he’s not protected sufficiently. I like his game, but if you get him moving off of his square in the pocket and drop him a couple times a game he’s toast.

    Now, the general conversation was could these guys have won in Philly last year and I say under the same conditions the results would have been the same. None of these guys could withstand being hit and harassed on ave 18 times a game.

  • #7

    So you ignore the 18 INTs? You’re right about him having to overcome a bad D, but i would call that…

    Trying to do to much. Like Vick.

    What a coincidence

  • #7

    Hey Rodgers is a great player and yes I’ve studied Rodgers. Can make every throw.

    Sometimes though, you could accuse Rodgers of playing “hero ball”..like Vick.

    I’m sure you won’t agree. Rodgers takes alot of sacks/hits. Vick’s sacks/hits get more publicized because he unfortunately gets injured.

    Also, just on pure talent, even at 33. You can still put Vick up there with those top players in the league that you just mentioned.

    You people who say Vick is “washed up” you’re dead wrong. Just my opinion

  • #7

    You can make the correct pre snap read and things can still go wrong. This is the NFL. You can make the correct reads and still get picked off or sacked. Not sure how you can say that Vick doesn’t make the correct reads when you’re not a coach at any level.

    you’re a blogger. thats it

  • Dutch

    that’s not disputable, but none of those QBs are effective once you’ve knocked them on their ass that’s a pure fact. Manning, Brees, Brady or Rogers are not getting up off the ground to beat you. If all you have is the blitz they are going to kill your defense, however,so long as your front rushers can tatoo them you are in great shape.

    So under the same conditions of being hit 18 times a game like Vick was in the pocket in Phila, neither of those QBs would have done much if any better.

    If Vick gets the protection he got last week all season, the Eagles are going to have a good year on offense.

  • Adam

    Rodgers is different because his good far out weighs his bad. Taking sacks is really not that big of a deal in the NFL, sometimes it’s preferred. Rodgers make take sacks, but he’s also throwing for 4000+ yards and 30+ TD’s almost every year, and the lowest INT% in the NFL. Teams can deal with taking sacks when you produce like that. But when you’re getting hurt, coughing up the ball, or throwing it up as you’re going to the ground, that’s when the issues come up.

  • JofreyRice

    That’s somewhat fair. Like I said, I don’t think you’d ever teach a kid playing QB, “Ok, avoid a defender, roll out to your right, and at full speed, deliver a strike 35 yards down the field to the 3rd fingernail of your receiver, as he finally breaks open from coverage”. I think at some point, Rodgers’ insane abilities will fade, and he’ll either adapt and play a more precise brand of QB, or he won’t be a top guy anymore.

    Under pressure last year–when the defense rushed more than 4 at Rodgers, he threw 9 TD’s and 1 INT with a 70% accuracy rating. While Vick was healthy, under those same conditions, he threw 2 TDs to 6 INTs with a 53% accuracy rating. You want Rodgers improvising, because good things tend to happen. Not so much with Vick. When/if Rodgers improvisations no longer yield positive plays, he’ll have to be reigned in.

  • #7

    Cutler??

    6,7,8, and 10 have played one season. They have more to prove.

    kudos to you putting out a list though.

  • Token

    I dont feel Eli gets enough credit. Hes certainly a better QB than Wilson and Kaep. And is for now better than Luck. Ill take Eli in clutch time.

    Im really curious to see how RG3 is handled this year. Didnt his dad just come out and say something like running QBs are losers? I want to see RG3 pass the ball. He doesnt need to be doing all this option crap to be successful IMO.

  • Adam

    Elite is such an ugly word when it comes to football. So objective.

  • #7

    Which is what I call trying to do to much, which is my main problem with Vick.

    Holy sh.. we agreed on something

  • Dutch

    You don’t know much about the NFL and football if that’s your contribution to the discussion.

    That’s not true running QB has never won the big game, but commonly spouted on boards everywhere. Usually it’s a dig at Blk QBs in the league.

    Starbuch, Montana and Steve Young, won super bowls with their legs and two of them are in the Hall of Fame, maybe you’ve heard of them?

    Viking used to have a QB Fran Tarkenton who was just impossible to contain he was the White Vick, how he and Chuck Foreman never won is beyond all belief.

  • Andy124

    Good way to word it. There have been mobile quarterbacks who’ve won the big game, Steve Young most noteably. But he was a passer first. He didn’t “rely on his legs”, but they were a nice perk.

  • Andy124

    Clearly, RG3 has been brainwashed.

  • JofreyRice

    There’s an argument to be made. I agree Eli is underrated. I’m really basing this on 2012, only, not taking into account his entire career. I’d say Wilson is about my favorite player in the league, so maybe I’m overrating him.

    Totally agreed on RG3. I’m a huge fan, and actually think they risk impairing his development by relying too heavily on him running. And it’s just stupid. Shanahan having CALLED runs when he had a bum knee? Idiotic.

  • Dutch

    Brees always throws a lot of interceptions and for a lot of yard and touchdown, but that is part of the package you get with a gunslinger like Brees. Brees has the heart and arm to make big things happen, sometimes like Favre those things are bad.

  • Adam

    What do you know about what I am? I’ve played football at a university level, what have you played besides Madden? I’m a certified coach, have been a graduate assistant, and I help coach a local high school team. Not to mention the fact that experts have been saying this his entire career. It’s obvious when you watch him play. defensive coordinators know this and that’s why they blitz him.

  • Dutch

    It’s nothing to do with the pre snap read if you can’t stop a quick, strong defensive tackle from collapsing the pocket, or an end from sealing and closing in on a QB at the top of his drop. This is how you beat those QBs. They are going to play the percentages on the blitzes, and pick you apart unless you have a equally high IQ safety who can bait them once or twice a game.

  • Dutch

    Steve Young holds most every QB rushing record in the NFL Post-Season

  • JofreyRice

    If I was ranking pure arm-talent:

    1) Rodgers
    2) Cutler
    3) Flacco
    4) Kaep
    5) Stafford

    Vick would be somewhere in the top 10, arm-talent wise.

    Cutler’s problems are between his ears. That’s why he’s on another HC, and ANOTHER OC. Great thrower.

  • #7

    Those “under pressure” stats are year to year

  • Token

    That fact that you have to pull from so far back to try and make your point, kind of helps the point that running QBs dont win SBs. Its just a fact. Its no dig at black QBs.

    Theres a giant difference between guys that can run and a running QB. A guy like Rodgers can run, he will get 10 yards if its given to him. Newton and Vick are running QBs throughout their career. They look to run and play sandlot football.

    Steve Young ran 5 times in the SB. Mostly on broken plays. In that season he ran 58 times.

    In the last two years Vicks running ability has eroded. But generally he has over 100 rushing attempts every year in his career. And they are all injury shortened years. Same thing with Newton

    Aaron Rodgers runs the same amount as Young. About 50 times a season. Only ran twice in the SB for -2 yards

    Joe Montana ran hardly at all, not sure where that name came from.

    And did you mean Roger Staubach? Hardly ever ran.,

    I realize you are trying to make a point, but even your own example are counters to your argument.

  • greenblood20

    When you rely on your legs like Vick you will not win the big game. Name one “run-first” Qb to do so. Steve Young, Staubach, and Montana(?) were all throw first QBs, not scramblers. Tarkenton is the closest and he still failed to lift a Lombardi. So who are you talking about not knowing anything? Must be yourself. Montana was a scrambler? HAHAHAHAHA.Don’t you mean Elway? Who was STILL a throw first QB. Pu-lease!!!

  • Andy124

    Cutler: Slightly better version of Jeff George.

  • JofreyRice

    haha, yeah, maybe that will be the story of his career.

  • greenblood20

    Anyone that knows anything about the last two years, who are honest, knows that a good 20-30% of those sacks against Vick is because he held the ball too long. That has been his m.o. his whole career. Difference was that, back in the day, he could use his feet to make aggressive defenses pay/compensate for having no idea what he was looking at schematically. He no longer has that. But, fact is, all the Vick jock-sniffers don’t deal in reality, they deal in Maddenisms. No sense talking football to someone who has no inkling how real football is won. Here is a hint: your QB needs to manage a game and not expect every play to be a touchdown…

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “That fact that you have to pull from so far back to try and make your point, kind of helps the point that running QBs dont win SBs. Its justa fact. Its no dig at black QBs.”

    And Token (Finally) shows his hand. lol

    I like how you make running QBs and Black QBs synonymous.

    Vick was a “running QB” early in his career largely b/c that was what was asked of him.

    Steve Young? Are you kidding me. He STILL holds some QB rushing records. Aaron Rodgers?

    Dude ran for 259 yards last year – 257 in 2011 and in his Super Bowl year 356.

    Tom Brady –

    2012 – 23
    2010 – 31

    Peyton Manning

    2010 – 18
    2012 – 23

    “Newton and Vick are running QBs throughout their career. They look to run and play sandlot football. ”

    Newton? Sandlot football – looks to run first?

    Newton passed for more yards than PEYTON MANNING in his first two seasons. Now granted the league is different now and it’s easier to pass – but it’s been that way for awhile – and find me a rookie who did that other than CAM NEWTON.

    Cam’s passing yards –

    2012 – 3, 869
    2011 – 4, 051

    Yeah…but he plays “sandlot” football. And looks to run first.

    And this crap about not running in the SB – last I checked they had to get to the SB first.

    HAHAHHAHAHA……

    But thanks for showing your true colors. Priceless.

  • Dutch

    He has a point, now all that has to demonstrated is Foles is actually the better QB and up to right now that’s not in the Tea Leaves.

    If Vick is as bad as he suggest, it would be obvious to the world and not just a few extremist in Phila that Foles is better qualified to lead the Eagles in 2013 hands down.

    Foles doesn’t seem to be meeting the challenge, maybe Foles didn’t get the memo.

  • MAC

    Farve went to Green Bay in his 2nd or 3rd season in NFL and Steve Young was on Bucs who at time where historically worst franchise in NFL by far and away. You get consistency by winning in the NFL. Vick had coaching changes in Atlanta bc his teams were inconsistent. The QB is the biggest determining factor in wins and loses. So much of the coaching changes that Vick had happen to him were a result of his teams win loss record. Often times team would be bad bc Vick missed many games. Either way if Vick had played at elite level then the coaching changes wouldn’t have been necessary.

  • Andy124

    Funny how people read the exact same words and get the exact opposite message. I took it (and maybe I’m a little idealistic) as he was trying to make the point that running qb’s are not synonymous with black qb’s. As in, this is a dig at run-first qb’s, not black qb’s because they are not the same thing.

    I do however disagree with his assessment of Newton. The man threw for 400 yards in each of his first 2 games. Blows my mind to this day.

  • Token

    Ah, I figured the racist card would be played eventually. It typically does.

    Vick ran because thats what was asked of him?

    What good white running QBs are there to talk about? Ill be glad to compare them if you can find me some. Tebow?

    It is funny when this race topic is brought up. Its like the last line of defense when you have no more valid points to make. You act as if people control what color players are.

    Its not to say black QBs only run. Even though thats what people like you and Dutch would like to make it look like people are saying. I was a big RG3 fan coming out and really wanted the Eagles to grab him. I was pissed when they won those meaningless games at the end of the season which took them out of the running for him. I think he can pass the ball with the best of them, he doesnt need to do all this running. He almost ended his career doing it. Because it. does. not. work. in. the. NFL.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    I like Ryan…he has some choke in him…but I like him. But folk act like the Falcons TEAM isn’t a MUCH better one than when Vick was there.

  • Token

    No the fact is the run first QBs are often black. Theres no controlling that. I dont even see how its a race issue. The only “dig and run” white QB I can think of is Tebow. And hes so far below the talent of Vick and Newton its not a comparison. But he aint winning anything either.

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    “Ah, I figured the racist card would be played eventually. It typically does.”

    LOL

    Well when you say:

    “”That fact that you have to pull from so far back to try and make your point, kind of helps the point that running QBs dont win SBs. Its justa fact. Its no dig at black QBs.”

    and

    “”Newton and Vick are running QBs throughout their career. They look to run and play sandlot football. ”

    I’m sure you’re not surprised.

    lol

  • cliff henny

    7 has to max, i’d carry 6, since graham and cole are still very capable ends if injuries get out of hand in a game. ps squad kruger and sqares. gaethers seems like the old ‘first off the bus guy’ we all played with, but it never translate to the field

  • Token

    There are black players in the NFL? How taboo.

  • #7

    Never said that he was bro.

    I bet there is one thing that you don’t notice about this thread. Foles’ name isn’t even mentioned hardly as far as what we’re all talking about.

    Cmon Foles lovers, add your guy to this conversation lol

  • Adam

    Of course you’re racist. If you don’t like Vick that means you’re racist, if you criticize his game you’re a hater. Vick’s illustrious 10 year career has rendered him untouchable to criticism, and no one should doubt his greatness.

  • cliff henny

    i down voted you…just because i cant read a response from you unless it has it’s customary down vote. lol…you’re original post was up maybe 30 secs b4 it got popped

  • cliff henny

    bam, again. squares is interesting. sure you read tommy saying he’s probably already playing at his ceiling. we know kruger is a yr away. if they have to protect him, can live with giving him 7th spot. dont think we have to worry about squares. and if he is snagged, lsu bama georgia, etc will put another one of him out next yr. sec knows how to build d-line guys

  • Andy124

    “I went and down voted everyone else’s comment”

    “I have literally never down voted anyone in my life without responding underneath”
    Hmmmm….

    “BUT YOU READ ME!!!”
    fwiw, it’s entirely possible to downvote a post without reading it. :)

  • GEagle

    I disagree with Tom. How can a young guy ever play at his ceiling? How can two years of an NFL strength and conditioning program, not help him play better? As much of an overachiever as he is viewed as, he isn’t some flawless football player. I’m sure plenty of his technique can still improve…Better technique, stronger and faster player, should equate to a better player, especially when you can count on his Charecter and work ethic..
    ..
    if A kid like him, gets in our rotation from day 1 starting in Washington, and plays 16 games a year for the next 3 seasons, How can we not expect a much better player in year 4 than we will get this year? the trick is being good enough now, showing enough now so that we can continue to invest in his development and get to see a guy like him in year 4….He is basically the opposite of Kruger…Krugar has a world of potential, so he has to show less than an overachiever like Square. square is an overachiever who you don’t look at his skill set and gush over what he can become down the line, so he has to claw, scratch,fight and show up every day to make us continue investing in his development and that make a kid with his Charecter a dangerous dude…I can’t wait to see more of him and Benny……Potential like Kruger gets much more leeway.

  • All In Eagles

    I don’t find it racist at all. Mentioning the color of someones skin doesn’t define racism to me. If I were to mention it in a derogatory way then sure, sue me, but it wasn’t used that way here.

  • Adam

    That’s really funny. You think me saying that Vick isn’t great means I don’t think he’s any good at all. Your man crush on Vick can’t make you see anything objectively. Vick isn’t handing anything to anyone in this competition. People give him the slight edge, and the fact that it’s even that close between a 33 year old 10 year starter and a 3rd round 2nd year guy should show you just how not great Vick is. Why isn’t he blowing Foles out of the water if Vick is so amazing and Foles is so terrible? Shouldn’t even be close right?

  • GEagle

    So you don’t think a team would give up a 7th round pick for him?…So a team like the Ravens who lost Pitta, have glaringly better options than “stone hands”?

  • All In Eagles

    We should be able to get a 7th for him for sure. There are a bunch of teams in need. So, you would keep who over Celek then? Harbor?

  • #7

    Yeah maybe so. I’m just really low on Celek right now. Way too many tipped balls by him that led to INTs

  • cliff henny

    yes, i like the kid. trust me, hoping he becomes sapp JR. dixon is better when healthy. think if we have to keep a 7th d-line to protect him from ps nabbing, it’s kruger. squares i like, but the SEC powerhouses will turn out another 4 or 5 of him’s in the 7th/udfa next yr.

  • Maggie

    Strange. You say he holds the ball too long, yet an experienced football writer says he shows patience. I believe the QB ideally should have protection for anything up to 4 or sometimes even 5 seconds. In 2012, the depleted Eagles O-line gave an average of .54 seconds much of the time. (I’m exaggerating, but not by much!) The REAL fact is that nobody, no matter how opinionated, on this or any other board, will be choosing a single player on the Eagles this year or any other. Deal with it, lol.

  • cliff henny

    well, i’m not really making a case for celek to get cut. am making a case he needs to start catching the F’N ball or the idea might cross kelly’s mind. 99% sure he’ll be on team, but yeah, dangle his wangle and see who’s biting. byrd for celek, coleman, allen, hughes, lindley and marsh. 6 for 1…how can they turn that down. it’s a ruben amaro special,except in reverse

  • Andy124

    Yup. Damn $EC.

  • GEagle

    I actually just found out Dixon still has practice squad eligibility left so that might help his case a bit…I wonder about Gaethers PS eligibility?

  • Adam

    Who didn’t stink last year? Celek isn’t going to be Jimmy Graham, he’s a blue collar guy that gets you about 50 yards a game, and has for basically his entire career. He’s easily the most consistent receiver the Eagles have, next to maybe Avant.

    I think your expectations may be a bit too high for him. Just for reference, Celek was on pace to match his 2011 production last year if he didn’t get hurt and 2010 was one of his worst seasons as an Eagle statistically because he was used mainly as a blocker.

    The drops were a problem, mainly due to timing, but it’s not as big of a problem as people make it seem. He dropped half the passes that Graham did last year.

  • #7

    And he’s banged up pretty good too.

  • #7

    Hey man whatever it takes

  • Andy124

    It’s no secret who DJ wants to start at QB:

    dIamonds oN my NEcK =>KINNE

  • cliff henny

    i’m not calling for him to be cut, somehow that’s the position my post got twisted into. what i am saying is he needs to start catching the GD ball, or the idea that harbor, who they are going over board to find a place on the field, might look like a better alternative. yeah, his drops are getting to be a problem, i’m starting to sour on him. he never dominated the middle of the field like we needed him too. i like the guy, but think he is definitely on upgrade alert. probably make it thru this season, but next, not sure.

  • #7

    The expectations aren’t high. If catching the GD ball is a high expectation he needs to be cut immediately…then put Kinne in at TE lol

  • Adam

    QB’s in the NFL will almost never be afforded that kind of time. NFL pass rushers are simply too talented and the OL has to play re-actively to them.

  • #7

    LOL

  • #7

    Oh no man. You’re up there. Waaay up there on the list

  • #7

    Oh and I have @Token too. He might be outside of my office right now wanting to fight lol

  • JofreyRice

    You should feel honored!

  • GEagle

    I could care less, I don’t get butthurt by any words…But since I live in a society that are a bunch of sissies who do get Butthurt every single time the word “black” is mentioned by another race, I would prefer racial equality, which is suppose Sto be the real message. As a black man, you would not like me spouting off mentioning how Vick is a Black QB. It would start a crap storm…I just watched Riey Cooper almost lose a career he worked on his entire life because of a word, while a year before Desean was using Homophobic slurs to callers on the Radio….As persecuted as black people have been in this country, recently, they don’t suffer HALF the hate that the gay community has to endure these days….Words don’t bother me, at all…but they bother a ton of people that I have to share this planet with, so I would prefer if Dopes like you, kept their ignorant crap to themselves…I get Banned and my post gets deleted for using a F word, not even directly at anyone…so I’ll be damned if I watch trashy people like you make real ignorant statements to people while I keep my mouth shut…Until trash like you STOPS seeing Colors, I have to continue living in a world that isn’t progressing….so either wise up, do your part….or please don’t reproduce more ignorant trash such as yourself. This planet is polluted enough. Thank You, good day to you sir

  • GEagle

    Hahahahaha….seriously tho, the Bills want cheap Labor, and they don’t want to pay Byrd….Take Celek, Nate Allen and a 3rd round pick, and we will even take on salary of someone they don’t want…NBA STYLE TRADE at its finest!

  • All In Eagles

    Too much man, I stopped reading after the second sentence. Preach on as you will though, someone is listening…. I think.

  • #7

    Damn!! lol.

  • GEagle

    Im actually not suggesting trading him right now…I’m just saying that I see no chance of him being Cut because he is worth something to someone in a trade. Why cut someone that you can get something for

  • GEagle

    Yaaaaaaaawn!! Lol. Im pretty damn jacked up, I literally am currently watching Pats vs. Eagles for no joke, like the 6th time lol

  • #7

    It is. I can’t remember the last time I’ve watched the preseason games all the way thru. Drank beer and smoked like it was a real game

  • cliff henny

    50 mins till 1st beer. last game i started at lunch, was hurting next day

  • #7

    That would be nice if this could happen

  • #7

    I thought I was bad

  • #7

    That’s what up

  • Andy124

    Doctor’s appt. tomorrow for blood pressure check-up. Probably shouldn’t indulge tonight… probably.

  • cliff henny

    if you have blood pressure issues, beer is the least of your worries…sure doctor is more concerned with you being Eagle fan

  • MAC

    I am far from a Foles lover.

  • JofreyRice

    “Brady’s been in the same system his whole career.”

    If my sound was turned on, the klaxons would be blaring. That’s flat out wrong.

    You later said: “Brady has been with the same team and same coach since he was drafted.”

    Which is much different. It’s really a simple point, and funny that you can’t admit you’re wrong on something so minor. I’d actually argue that the way Mike McCoy changed the Denver offense to suit Manning, his offenses have been more homogeneous throughout his career than Brady’s, despite the change in uniform.

  • Andy124

    Didn’t you see my post about high blood pressure? I can’t handle any downvotes before a doctor’s appt. man. How can you do that to me?

  • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

    Oh Lord.

    I was using system and team synonymously. A point I also made out when I said I was referring to the consistency of Brady being on the same team, under the same coach – no to how the offense was running the ball.

    But..yet again…you can’t help yourself. Coming to nitpick when my conversation wasn’t about how the team ran the offense and moreso a QB being on the same team with the same coach for an extended period of time.

  • cliff henny

    i only downvote stupidity…and dutch

  • greenblood20

    Yeah; you have a white faced Vick as profile pic. You know what I am talking about. Stop injecting race into a game. It is ridiculous…