Williams On Eagles’ Offense: It’ll Look Like Oregon

No coach on Chip Kelly’s staff has been with the franchise longer than Ted Williams.

He started off as the tight ends coach for a couple years, was in charge of the running backs from 1997 to 2012 and is now back with the tight ends in his 19th season.

At 69-years-old, having seen plenty throughout the course of his career, Williams seemed like a good person to ask about what Kelly’s offense is going to look like once it’s unveiled during the regular season.

“I don’t think that anything’s going to change from what he knows,” Williams said. “It’ll be very, very similar to what you saw at Oregon because the play-calling… he needs to be comfortable with what he’s saying to the offense and how he’s communicating it. So you don’t just out of the box decide that you’re going to do something a certain way and you don’t feel comfortable with it. So it’s going to look like Oregon.”

And what about the zone read? Will that be a part of the offense even if the quarterback is Nick Foles?

“We haven’t decided that particular part of it,” Williams said. “I wouldn’t say we haven’t run it, but we haven’t decided it. But it’ll look like Oregon to a degree based on what we do and how we want to do it and based on game-planning. How much of what we do depends on who we’re playing.”

Williams is now coaching the tight ends, a position of added importance in Kelly’s system. The buzz word all offseason has been versatility. The Eagles signed free agent James Casey and drafted Zach Ertz in the second round. They also still have Brent Celek on the roster.

According to Williams, the overall theme of the offense is that it will have the ability to change, based on the look of the defense.

“The biggest thing about this offense is it has flexibility, so that’s exciting,” Williams said. “You don’t get pigeon-holed. I’m not the guy who always lines up here. I have the flexibility to line up over there, over here, I can be moved, I can motion.”

That could mean plenty of two tight-end sets, running backs motioning out wide and so on. The main idea in practices (that have been open to the media) has centered around getting to the line of scrimmage early, surveying the defense and running plays that give the offense an advantage.

The route-runners face changes too. As we’ve written about on several occasions, receivers (and that includes tight ends) will oftentimes have options on their routes, based on the look of the defense. According to Williams, that’s a major change from previous years.

“The West Coast offense, while expansive, is a concept offense,” he said. “And it’s really based upon pieces fitting into concepts. And if you don’t fit in the correct position in a concept, the concept gets lost. And so consequently, I don’t want to say restrictive, but more demanding to confront.

“This offense is just not like that. There is some regimented, there is some principles in terms of how you do what you do. But there’s also some flexibility. If you see this, here’s what your option is. If you see something else, here’s what your option is. The West Coast offense wasn’t designed that way. From the Paul Brown era, the Bill Walsh era, they knew what they wanted, and they wanted it a certain way.”

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  • ReggieKush

    Mike Vick!

  • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

    ““We haven’t decided that particular part of it,” Williams said. “I
    wouldn’t say we haven’t run it, but we haven’t decided it. But it’ll
    look like Oregon to a degree based on what we do and how we want to do
    it and based on game-planning.”

    And that right there FURTHER makes me think what the offense they have in mind if Foles starts is different than what they have in mind if Vick starts and what they’re looking for in these guys isn’t the same thing.

    Let’s face Vick will NEVER be a pure pocket passer – and an Oregan-esque offense doesn’t need him to be, but Foles will NEVER be a QB who excels in a read/option type offense – he’s slow as a snail – so it’s not something you’d use a lot with him in.

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      The key to Chip’s offense has never been the QB’s ability to run. It’s an added threat but is no where near the most important one. Most important has always been making good reads and getting the ball out quickly. You can still run the Oregon style offense without a mobile quarterback. The Houston Texans offense is run like that.

      Speed isn’t everything when it comes to Chip’s offense at Oregon. You still need a QB who makes good decisions, something Vick has never been strong in. You also need a durable quarterback, because some of these plays are designed for the QB to take a hit to sell the option. This isn’t good for a guy who regularly gets banged up. So even if Vick wins the job, I doubt you’re going to see a lot of these plays called as it would be counter productive to game plan around getting your oft-injured QB to run plays where you know he’ll get hit.

      Vick needs to show he can do more than just run, because that’s definitely not going to be what Kelly looks at. He needs to show he can make the reads and get the ball out fast. Chip has said he likes the ball out around 1.5 seconds, whereas it was chartered that Vick holds onto the ball on average over 3 seconds last year, which could be because of the way the plays were called or the way the line played. Either way it will have to be fixed.

      Don’t think that Chip will choose Vick over anyone just because he’s fast and the other guys are slow. This offense is very adaptable (see Houston) and will be run by the person who can distribute the ball the fastest with the least turnovers. That’s always been the bottom line. He doesn’t need a hero out there and that’s something Vick will need to work on. He just needs a guy to distribute. Vick can be effective if he can learn to do this.

      • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

        “Don’t think that Chip will choose Vick over anyone just because he’s fast and the other guys are slow”

        Where did I say that?

        I said “And that right there FURTHER makes me think what the offense they have in mind if Foles starts is different than what they have in mind if Vick starts and what they’re looking for in these guys isn’t the same thing.”

        Obviously the fundamentals will be the same – but those two are not anywhere the same type of QB and you wouldn’t play them the same way either.

        “whereas it was chartered that Vick holds onto the ball on average over 3 seconds last year,”

        Why do people keep siting this flawed stat? It’s no coincidence that the guys on that list who held onto the ball the longest where the three fastest QBs in the league.

        If you run with the football you’re going to hold onto it longer than if you pass it – if you don’t make a distinction between running and passing plays – then guess what – the guys who run the ball (more) are going to have higher release stats.

        2. Foles doesn’t get the ball out in 1.5 seconds (where’d you get that number) – more like 2.7 seconds. And actually once the playcalling shifted to shorter passes instead of 7 step drop must go deep always paases Vicks release dropped significantly – bout the same as Foles.

        3. And if that 1.5 stat is true – then neither of our QBs has shown the ability to that with any consistency.

        • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

          Just curious if you picked up the Eagles Almanac yet….they touch on this very topic a bit

        • Dutch

          In the few years Kelly has been at a BCS School, how many QBs and Receivers have Kelly sent into the NFL who have made significant contributions on a NFL team’s attack?

          Oregon and Kelly has build a stellar reputation as an Offensive Powerhouse, but they have yet to send skill position players into the NFL from those teams. There is a tailback buried on depth charts here and there in the NFL but there has not been one person who was part of the attack at Oregon who’s come into the NFL and played close to being recognized as a stand out.

          Kelly is a system coach who is capable of taking pieces to put in his system to make it go, it’s not about developing individual talent. Kelly doesn’t need A QB who are capable of making NFL throws, the long outs, or back shoulder throws, when at Oregon. Here the game is vastly different. That’s not how his offense at Oregon functioned. That’s the very issue Jaws was having with the spread option attack. The passing routes were not sophisticated enough to deceive the defense.

          Pat Shurmur’s job is to devise routes common in the WCO and mingle that concept with the Spread Attack to give this offense a legitimate professional appeal.

        • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

          Vick holding on to the ball that long has nothing to do with his speed. It’s him waiting for the the play to develop. He’s always been a guy who waits for a receiver to get open before he throws the ball. It’s something he’ll need to correct in this quick release offense if he’s the starter. These times were recorded on passing plays only. This is nothing ground breaking, there is no QB who has success when they hold on to the ball for longer than 2.5 seconds (compared to less than that), it’s just that Vick does it more than anyone else with the exception of Russell Wilson.

          I got the number from Chip. His exact words were “We want the ball out of the quarterbacks hands in 1.5 seconds. That does not mean 2.5 seconds and waiting for a receiver to get open.” As I said, it’s something he’ll need to fix if he wins the job.

          • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

            “Vick holding on to the ball that long has nothing to do with his speed.
            It’s him waiting for the the play to develop. He’s always been a guy who
            waits for a receiver to get open before he throws the ball.

            That’s wrong. And wrong some more. You can look at how PFF timed the stat.

            ALSO – Vick’s release stat SIGNIFICANTLY decreased when the play calling shifted. Guess what happens when you switch to shorter, intermediate plays and no go long or go home – time drops – somewhere between 2.3 – 2.7 sec.

            Not 1.5 but neither is Foles…by along shot.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            You’re saying it’s wrong that Vick holds the ball because he waits for the play to develop? Seriously? Have you watched him play?

          • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

            I”m saying that wasn’t the biggest issue. Him waiting for the play to develop was also a product of the plays called – receivers were often not even open for him to throw the ball too – AND it’s not like their was a hot read often.

            Now – does he hold on to the ball too long n other instances – yes hence his time inching up to 2.7 seconds at times BUT SO DOES FOLES – who has NO excuse for his release being that long.

            But according to Kelly – out of the man’s own mouth – Vick has a “quick release” so clearly the coach doesn’t see it as you do.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Vick absolutely has a quick release. He’s probably got the quickest release in the NFL. But that’s talking about the velocity of the ball coming out of his hands, not the time it takes for him to make the read and the throw. THAT is what I’m saying needs to be fixed. And I’m not saying he can’t do it, he just needs to show Chip that.

          • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

            “But that’s talking about the velocity of the ball coming out of his
            hands, not the time it takes for him to make the read and the throw.”

            Fair enough. but the reads in this offense are pretty simplistic – which is why I say that’s not the big concern for him in winning this.

            His decision making on the other hand is.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Only thing that will stop Vick from winning this is himself. If he can buy in to all of Chip’s philosophies and let Shady/Bryce/DeSean etc. take the hits he can be effective.

          • A Roy

            For the most part, he waited to see which DL was going to bulldoze someone on that makeshift line. At least he had to last year. Dunno about 2011.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            It’s not something that he’s just done in Philly. It was the same in Atlanta. Kelly’s offense will minimize this.

          • Dutch

            Holding the ball is a factor of the route being run by receivers, and the defense they are facing. Against a zone defense, the Cornerbacks like Samuel never turns his back to the QB, so with a concurring safety like Ed Reed if the ball is thrown before the break by the Receiver, either Samuels or Reeds makes a break on the ball after reading the QB’s eyes. This is where most of the “pick 6′ plays occur.

            Anticipation throws work against press coverage where the defender’s back is commonly exposed to the QB who is most likely throwing timing routes. Generally 3 of 5 step drops, as soon as the back foot comes in contact with the ground the ball is released.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            It is yes. But it can be minimized if you learn to time your receivers routes and hit them in their breaks, rather than waiting for them to get open. Or you can trust your receivers to make the catch even if he is in coverage, something that an Eagles QB hasn’t been able to do since T.O was around because we haven’t had any possession receivers.

          • Dutch

            The Eagles if you’ve been watching for years and through every QB who has been under center haven’t had receivers who fight for ball and, or catch in traffic since Terrell Owens. Celek, 6’4 250 lbs, Celek is useless in traffic. He’s not going to snatch a ball out of the air with a defender within 3 ft of him.

            I think the Eagles in this camp are working on drills to find a solution to that flaw in their game, it’s obvious Kelly picked up something in the review of game film. All receivers in the NFL don’t have the ability to make catches when closely covered. The Eagles have only one receiver who is capable of getting separation out of his breaks and that’s DeSean Jackson. Avant, Maclin nor does any of the other receivers with maybe the exception of Johnson find separation out of their breaks.

            It’s all a matter of concentration and nerve.

      • Dutch

        Oregon under Kelly has never finished above 73 place in the BCS in passing statistics, in 2012 they averaged 222 yard per game. Of the 1100 Offensive plays run in 2012 Oregon only managed 250 receptions in 373 attempts, Screen plays are included in those 373 attempts . The Oregon offense ran the ball a staggering 685 attempts.

        The “Quick Reads” in Chip Kelly’s offense applies to reading the defensive end. I’ve read a number of reports locally who pen the same information you’re stating. Obviously there is some misunderstanding of Kelly’s offense in the area and on this blog.

        The Idea this is a perfect offense for receivers is a bit overblown. The Offense Kelly is noted for running doesn’t involve long ball receptions down field, but screen plays taking advantage of the spread out defenders.

        Kelly’s has repeated it’s the threat of the QB to tuck and run that gives his offense an advantage. It’s that threat that freezes defenders and sets up second level blocks in a zone blocking scheme.

        Williams kept it simple, why would Kelly who has made a living and build a reputation on a running dominate offense come into the NFL at his first job and throw all of his work out of the window, he’s running that Oregon Offense, that same offense that produce a ratio of @24 passing attempts per games to more than 50 rushing attempts.

        This offense doesn’t allow for progression reads. There is an occasional safety check and rarely is there a ball thrown more than 35 yds down field.

        This is the perfect Vick offense that requires no more than 30 drop backs a game. On the other hand, Foles is not going to have the same effects on any defense in the NFL as a threat to tuck the ball and run.

        • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

          Hey Dutch, I guess we can agree on some things. Most of what you said I agree with. But there are a few things that Vick will need to show he can correct to run this offense successfully.

          1. His decision making. Especially on the zone reads. He needs to realize that he doesn’t need to make the big play, and if he has any doubt that defensive end is going to stay home he needs to give the ball to the running back. Taking hits in the open field because he feels he needs to make the play is not what Chip will want. He would rather have the running back get stuffed for a 2 yard loss than see his QB scramble and take a hit for no gain. Taking a pounding like RG3 did last year playing hero ball will result him getting injured. This is an exact quote from Chip, word for word: “We do not want the quarterback running the ball.. we want the quarterback to give the ball unless he cannot.”

          2. Anticipation. Vick has been known to wait too long for a play to develop to see an open receiver before he throws the ball. In this offense, with the emphasis on quick release and quick reads, he needs to throw the ball before the receiver gets open.

          People always say Andy tried to to make Vick into a pocket passer when he isn’t, and that he’ll be successful if Chip lets Mike be Mike. Well that won’t really be the case here. While Chip will gravitate less towards making Vick throw 40 times a game, he won’t let him go out there and run around trying to make plays. He just needs to move the ball around into the hands of the backs and receivers. If he can learn to do that he can be effective running this offense.

          • Dutch

            You’re not describing anything remotely common in option football. The Read on the Defense End is most immediate, you read his initial step off the line based on the angle he’s taking to the backfield. You have years of Ends rushing to seal the edge on their way to the QB, that strategy is defeated against the option. There is no way to defend against the slant or inside run in that case. Anticipation is good in a progression read offense where you have multiple reads and options, that will not apply in 75% of the routes and reads in this offense. It’s either the receiver is open and if not the QB tucks the ball and takes off. In any option offense any positive yards is a successful play, be it 1 yard or 60, the key is one play sets up the next.

            What Andy did was restrict Vick from taking off before completing his progression read. After all he worked wonders helping Vick maintain his eyes down field, but in restriction him to the pocket until he completed his progression reads he snatched Vick’s instincts from his decision making and all behind a weak offensive line.

          • dutch

            The overwhelming majority of pass plays are screens or quick hitch routes over the middle in the area off the line of scrimmage where the Tight End roams. There is going to be a lot of plays in front of the Safeties and Linebackers. The Eagles receivers are going to have to learn to play in Traffic if the team is going to find any success.

            The Rushing Heat comes off the corners. Every block inside is a combo block with the exception of the Center on the Nose Tackle. Once the Ends and OLBs are beaten inside enough, like Babin used to get torches, they slow down. Once you get them slowing down their rush from the outside down field routes and time to hit those routes come open, or your bubble screens open up under those conditions. If Kelly finds success in running a play ever 19 seconds he could cause havoc to an opposing defense who can’t get players onto the field. In the option everything is done to set up another strategy later.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            What? What I described was the exact way the inside zone read option works. If the defensive end crashes down the QB is supposed to keep it. If he stays home, you give the ball to the back. My point was that if Vick gets the sense whatsoever that the defensive end is staying home, he should give the ball to the back and thus not trying to beating the end in the open field. Chip wants his QB to run the ball ONLY when there is open field. Even if the end happens to drop back in coverage Chip still has his QB hand off the ball as that means he has the numbers advantage in the box.

            Anyways, you’re looking to disagree with someone just for the sake of disagreeing. So I’m just gonna leave this at that.

          • Dutch

            it’s immediate. If the End is crashing down you know that by his initial step off the line. That’s part of your indicator. He’s going to Step in across the Tight End’s face or Step out around the Tight End’s outside shoulder. If he drops back into a cover he’s out of the box and naturally you would want to run the ball. None of this is new, the Option is as old as Football.

            Playing defense in pee wee football one of the first rules you learn is staying home. You rarely see Ends staying home in the NFL and that is the strategy that Option Football and the spread exploits today.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            In Chip’s zone reads the read is on the weak side defensive end. This is where the best pass rusher on the other team is going to be, lined up against the right tackle (the less talented pass blocker). The tight end is on the strong side with the left tackle where the running back is going to be headed. This gives you the numbers advantage in run blocking.

            Playing defense against the zone read requires the DE to read and react, or you have to have a safety or linebacker come up to account for the QB keeper which then opens up the passing game. If the DE always crashes down you will run the QB option until the DE hesitates to cover that then you back to the running back. That’s the entire principle behind running something like this: No matter how you try and defend us, there is an opening somewhere.

        • Brian

          When did Chip Kelly say “it’s the threat of the QB to tuck and run that gives his offense an advantage?” I’ve never heard him say there was one reason that his offense was successful. I did hear him say that he can modify his offense to fit his quarterback.

  • Bdawkbdawk

    Anyone see that post up at NFL.com talking about how Reid has yet to practice a running play or concept in his first two sessions? I mean, Charles hasn’t shown up and its super early, but bahahaaha.

    • cliff henny

      that is crazy. tiger cant change his stripes. he brought in that one guy to install the pistol and everyone thought he changed. but other than that, it’s really just the same retred guys he had while here.

  • knighn

    Hey there. Since this is still centering around QB talk (and the “Foles against the Legend” thread is getting out of control), I’ve got to put this out there…
    -
    I am an Eagles fan first. Whoever the Eagles end up with as their starting QB, even if it’s GJ Kinne, will have my full support. I like to watch the Eagles do well. I don’t like watching the Eagles fail, even if it will mean a better draft pick in the 2014 draft.
    -
    Here’s what I think will happen: Foles will win the starting position. If he does not, he will take over by the 5th game of the season (October 6 versus the Giants) either because Vick got injured (again) or just because Vick just turned over the position. I’ll be honest: a huge part of me would like to see Vick put it all together. If we could have a good QB who was also extremely mobile, that would be something. The problem is, thoughout his career, Vick has struggled with accuracy, turnovers and injury. But man, if Vick could stop getting hurt and stop turning the ball over, he could be extremely special! I just don’t think it’s likely to happen at this point in his career.

  • knighn

    Here’s the next part. If Vick is still the QB on October 6, I want to put out a list of all the Vick supporters that were right (Dutch, MV7, etc).

    If Foles is the QB on October 6, I want to put out a list of all the Foles supporter that were right (myself, GEagle, GEagle, GEagle, GEagle, and some other people as well).

    So, who belongs in each list?

    • Token

      Ive said that I predict Foles will clearly outplay Vick in preseason but Vick will still start at QB. Meaning Chips talk of best players play is a bunch of bull. Basically, I dont think he will not start someone they just handed over 3 mil to. I think we will have a chance to see if Chip is a man of his word over the next month.

      • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

        “ve said that I predict Foles will clearly outplay Vick in preseason but Vick will still start at QB.”

        LOL. How convenient.

        • aub32

          No matter what happens dome people will look at their tv with their head tilted and force themselves to believe Foles outplayed Vick.

      • Brian

        That would cause Chip Kelly to lose credibility with the team, and most of the fan base. It will never happen. The best man wins.

    • Damien

      Barkley- Damien

    • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

      I’m betting Foles starts the season. I’m also betting that he doesn’t play 16 games.

    • Weapon Y

      I’m betting on Foles

    • djack10

      Vick will start. He’s just too much of an athletic freak still for any coach to not think they are the ones that can harness his ability. It’s like every guy thinking they can turn a hot lesbian friend straight if the conditions are right. I was never very good at analogies. You know what I mean.

    • Dutch

      Kelly wants to win now, his only option to win now in the NFL is Vick. But Barkley is the individual the Eagles should bet on. Vick is only here through the end of the season.

      Barkley at present can make throws common in the NFL that Foles just can’t make and the Eagles are going to use routes from the WCO as their passing attack. Barkley ran a Professional Style WCO Attack under Kifen at USC. He’s primed already to take the mantle and perform well in this offense once he becomes use to the speed of the defenses.

      • knighn

        Ok. So who is the starter by Oct 6? I’m saying Foles will be starter by Oct 6. Are you saying Vick will still be starter by Oct 6 or that Barkley will be starter by Oct 6?

        • Dutch

          Barkley will be the Starter by the end of October which is good being he won’t have to face the Philly fans unit after going out to Oakland, and Green Bay. We will know what this offense has after our first 6 games. Redskins, Denver, Tampa Bay and the Dallas defenses will be a good gauge since all have credible linebackers and defensive backs. If we can manage to score 24 pts a game against that stretch we are in good shape no matter who’s under center. That’s doable if the line stays healthy. The scoring can be broken down into 2 rushing touchdowns and a passing touchdown per game with a field goal.

          The other issue is how many points will the defense allow.

          In my opinion if they can manage to score 24ish points a game with the offensive personnel they have, that’s an indication of moving in the right direction.

    • Mr. Wu

      don’t forget about geagle

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      Not about picking sides. It’s about the QB that can run Chip Kelly’s offense the best. If that’s Vick or Foles I don’t care.

    • Mr. Wu

      I would put a c-note on Vick. well…maybe not a c-note but a twenty.

    • knighn

      Ok. I’ll expand to three choices:
      - Team Vick – you believe Vick will still be the starter by Oct 6, 2013
      - Team Foles – you believe that Foles will be the starter by Oct 6, 2013
      - Team Barkley – you believe that Barkley will be the starter by Oct 6, 2012

      • Chris

        i say vick starts season but foles is starter by oct 6 due to either injury or turnover issues

    • Brian

      I believe Nick Foles will win the job, and be our starting quarterback of the future. Michael Vick will be the backup, and Chip Kelly will have, and use, plays designed for Vick in every game. Barkley will eventually be traded. Oh, and the Eagles will win ten games.

    • weaponx420

      I’m kinda torn on who the starter would be. I would like to see Foles start with Barkely leading the future if Foles isn’t that guy. Vick if he can actually pull a miracle year together could be so dangerous in this offense utilized right, but I wouldn’t count on that.

  • Kuney

    Vick will win it out. I think the new offense will cause there to not be a great enough separation between the two.
    This puts the decision in the hands of intangibles and philosophy. While not a great leader, Vick is the guy the players want and look up to.

    Also while kelly doesn’t need a mobile qb the added dimension or “versatility” is part of his overall philosophy regardless of some the guiding principles he puts on a qb with regards to ball security.
    This offense is taylor made to fit Vick’s strengths. It relies on running the football, and using the threat of the run to set up more open passing lanes. We all know his reading the defense is not a strength but it doesn’t mean he can’t and the tempo will make it much easier to dissect what the D will bring.
    It also has built in opportunities for the qb to make plays with his feet as a counter to the defense over pursuing which will quench that desire of his to contribute more directly.
    Basically, if Vick can’t run THIS then he’s officially done and kelly’s job clock…well it won’t start ticking until he drafts a qb in the first or 2nd round but everyone will know where its located.

    * Plus the hype on Nick Foles gives me this eery bobby hoying/kevin kolb feeling. He’s the alternative to what we had so he must be awesome…i’ve already bit on that twice….see hoying/kolb.

    • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

      “Also while kelly doesn’t need a mobile qb the added dimension or
      “versatility” is part of his overall philosophy regardless of some the
      guiding principles he puts on a qb with regards to ball security.”

      I get flamed on another site for saying this. BUT I wholeheartedly agree. And this is why:

      “Vick will win it out. I think the new offense will cause there to not be a great enough separation between the two.”

      Let’s say Foles and Vick are relatively equal in decision making and accuracy…that automatically means Vick wins the job b/c of his running ability. Foles is going to have to totally OUT PLAY Vick to justify starting him.

      • Dutch

        I don’t think Chip is that complicated. He’s not shown himself to be in the short time here. It is not sensible to imagine him jettisoning his philosophy and installing his offense to throw it away in favor of a down field passing game. He’s made to many roster moves to outfit a reinforced running attack. Foles offers no deception to a defense as a threat to run, so why would a defense not attack Shady in forcing Foles to keep the ball?

        That defeats the purpose of a threatening QB capable of tucking the ball and taking off.

        • Brian

          You’re talking about one play. You’re acting like Chip Kelly can’t succeed without a running quarterback. That’s ludicrous. If his offense was that one dimensional, he would never have gotten to Oregon, let alone the Eagles.

          • Dutch

            Despite the rhetoric, he’s not yet demonstrated success on the big stage without a duel threat QB, his offenses at least in the BCS has been run dominate offenses by a ratio of better than 3 to 1.

            This is not going to resemble an Air it out Offense. As it stands now there are no progression reads in his offense and no reliance on split ends other than for screens or hot routes.

            Maybe you should watch some of the Oregon games over the last few years. Kelly is One dimensional, he rams the ball down your throat after spreading out your defense and exploiting the rushing lanes. His attack isn’t complex or a new method of doing things. It’s as simple as football gets.

          • Brian

            When did I say that this would be an Air it out Offense? Just because he runs the ball more than he passes it, doesn’t mean he’s one dimensional. Chip Kelly’s offense is based on his philosophy that you can run multiple plays from the same formation, with players changing positions AND changing the previous receiver routes (with added optional routes) based upon the defensive alignment (not just the defensive end) AND running or passing based on defensive personnel/protection (among other things like down and distance). All of those decisions can be made by Chip Kelly and staff, and relayed to the offense in a matter of seconds. All that’s left is simple execution by the team on the field.

          • Dutch

            Kelly likes “Football Players”, guys who can play anywhere at anytime on the field. That in no way changes Kelly’s preference for running the ball out of various formations as opposed to putting the ball in the air. Kelly will probably throw the ball no more than 5 times per Quarter in and attempt to run one play ever 19 sec. Basically for every 70 plays his offense runs there may be 20 passes.

            I would dare to say you will see no more than 10 30 yd attempts the entire season. Kelly’s offense is ground and pound.

            The most passing you are likely to see will come via screens and hot reads, but this is not going to be a down field passing attack or anything close. Maybe a long ball thrown in to keep the safeties honest.

          • Brian

            Again with the passing. You’re frustrating.

          • poetx99

            actually, depending upon who wins the QB battle, and how the run game is going, you may see more deep throws than you’ve seen from chip.

            it’s all action vs reaction. if teams take the safety that typically has to provide fire insurance for the CB covering djax and put them into the box because shady is averaging 6+ ypc, you can bet we’ll be seeing some deep throws.

            and if vick is QB, he has the arm strength to throw a backside 9 even if you half roll him to the opposite side of the field. so that backside CB and S are going to have no idea if desean is a decoy or not and will have to stick with him. if the combination of spreading the field forces teams out of 2 deep and into cover 1, that means you can chuck the ball wayyy downfield and not have to worry so much about the safety getting over there. ESPECIALLY if they are concerned about run fits to the offensive strength.

            if its there on tape, chip seems like he’ll take it.

        • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

          I agree actually wholeheartedly. I just (occasionally) play devil’s advocate. Short of Vick just falling on his face or Foles showing Andrew Luck type ability – other than that I don’t see him giving up the mismatch Vick provides.

          • Dutch

            College Football is changing, as a result the NFL is going to have to adopt some of the changes because the players at the football factories that feed the NFL are coming into with entirely new skill sets. More mobile and duel threat QBs in the mode of Vick, Cam Newton and Steve Young are in the pipeline. The two college coaches have come into the league and found success with those option attack offenses. Coaches who are traditionally stubborn and resistant to change are slowing trying and gearing their offenses to the talents those QB have.

            It’s exciting football and fans appreciate the scoring and creative plays. Everybody wants a RG III or Andrew Luck. Television rating reinforce that the NFL audience loves the video game pace and execution.

            Kelly in Philly has a chance to be a very significant entry. He may not have to win 9 games, but he wins 6 with a potent offense he will have been deemed a success his first year.

          • Kuney

            i’ve said that a lot in my conversations with friends. He doesn’t have to make the playoffs, but his offense has to hum. I expect a lot of the losses to be close and with the defense on the field but with a competency that has been felt lacking.
            Reid lost some close ones too towards the end but the beginning of his tenure felt like we got unlucky and needed a few more pieces (WRs) where as the last 2 years just seemed like we were wasting opportunities by not running a great back, or running him into the 3rd string portion of the line instead of the or using playaction in the first qtr when there was no real threat of a run.
            Kelly’s got time as long as his decision making is solid.

          • http://theadulttoysstore.com/ The Toy Goddess

            I’m giving them 8-8…9-7 is on my prayer list. lol

    • Bleeding Green

      The problem with Vick is how long he holds on to the ball. Every play cannot be a 10-12 second play, expecting the line to block while he looks down at one receiver. He also holds the ball way too long while being rushed – hence why he takes so many hits. You watch Manning and Brady, they hardly ever seem to get hit because they time it so well. Vick has never been able to do that – at least consistently. Defenders know this and that is why they blitz him so much.

      • Kuney

        Thats a pretty simplistic view, as he has more issues than that, and ones that are his fault as opposed to holding the ball which especially in this case has more to do with scheme and the plays being called.

        Also if your line is letting guys through and you need to reset it will take longer.

        Now part of that holding on to it is him…definitely…all the passers that can create and buy time with their legs will hold it longer….its just part of their nature, but its exacerbated when scheme is also asking them to as well. When asked to run play option, 5 & 7 step drops you don’t have much of choice unless you audible out of it ala Manning and Brady who were forced to learn to get it out quick and manipulate the pocket more subtly because they had no choice. They also hold more of their skills in checking out of a bad situation in said offense. (which is really what i think kelly will be looking for….with the tempo easing the reads will vick do a better job of controlling the game at the LOS) If he does that and every so often holds it a bit longer i don’t kelly is going to care because…

        … no one complains about a qb holding the ball on 4 & 27 or when someone like Big Ben wins 2 superbowls doing it.

        Your making it sound like he can’t get it out quick or never does and thats simply not true.
        He’s got a great release so its not his mechanics.
        And if in this scheme if your proven right and it affects the offense….he won’t play. But the passing game when in its wheel house will probably only have deep shots not deep routes.

  • poetx99

    great article, sheil. note the points williams made about the regimentation of the WCO. that speaks to the general lack of flexibility within that system (audibling and previous lack of option routes).

    its a genius offense. that’s fine if you have bill walsh calling it in his prime against a league which hasn’t figured it out yet. with andy and marty pulling the trigger a decade or so later, not so much.

  • Bleeding Green

    Good! Sick of the WCO. Vick and McNabb couldn’t run it anyway. Even Cunningham was lost in it. Takes a certain type of QB to run the WCO.

    I will give Vick the benefit of my doubt – but if he continues to not be able to read the defense, aka call audibles and handle the blitz, then it’s time for him to pack up and either ride the bench or go somewhere else. Maybe the Bills could use him ;)

  • cliff henny

    lol…if he gets traded here, he better swing by the courthouse and put restraining order on you b4 heading to novacare.

  • NickS1

    any word yet on kerry rhodes?

  • Suspicious

    Are you Paully from Philly.com and Cobb?

  • cliff henny

    be nice to have a safety again. i just worry about cost to aquire. he wants 4 yrs 9-10m a yr, we can swing that

  • cliff henny

    i hear ya…the what if’s with vick are just too much for me, why just need to see 4-6 games. have no clue what the outcome of those games will be. who knows, maybe kelly/vick catch lightning in a bottle.

  • A Roy

    not for a safety…

  • Dutch

    a 1.5 to 2.0 sec release requires someone running a corresponding route that brings them separation from their defender in that amount of time. If you’re looking for a release time in that area you are looking at no more than a 3 step drop, and a route that matures within 7 yds off the line of scrimmage against a zone defense. Or a bubble screen.

    Any QB in the pocket who isn’t sure of or have trust in his receivers to go get a ball or fight off a defender hesitates.

    Which of the Eagles receivers are noted to fight defenders for balls in the air or go after balls when a defender is covering them closely? Where Boldin needs inches, Eagles receivers needs yards on defenders to make a catch. Remember the Green Bay playoff game, and the toss to Cooper against a shorter defensive back in the end zone?

  • Maggie

    Terrell Owens fighting to make a catch? Are you mad? Besides causing chaos on his own sideline, he was best at short-arming most passes thrown his way! At least in Philly.

  • Maggie

    Perhaps it is more important to a head coach to have a TEAM that wins, rather than a few ”star” players who mostly run around yelping. “Look at me, me, me, me! I caught the ball!”

  • UKEagle99

    I agree. Andy Reid gave this franchise some very rich years, he didn’t win the big one but we came close. He made his fair share of mistakes in the end, that’s why it’s called then end.

    I wish Andy every success and hope he loses to Philly in the Superbowl.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    That’s about what it will cost us if we do it. He wants to be the highest paid safety in the league which is currently at like 9mil for Polamalu. I agree that I don’t think it’s worth paying a safety that much considering where the team is at. I’d like to give Wolff a year to see what he can turn into next year before we dish out top money for a safety.

  • poetx99

    that’s hilarious.

  • aub32

    Though I would just as happy as you if Byrd came here (even at the cost of a 2nd) I don’t think him not reporting to camp makes much of a difference. Players hold out all the time, and I can’t remeber the last time a player on the franchise tag was traded or released.

  • Bleeding Green

    He probably just doesn’t want to see Charles get hurt on the first day of practice. And Smith needs all the practice he can get.