Encouraging Signs For Eagles’ Offensive Line

Antonio Dixon is used to the pace and structure of the Eagles’ 11-on-11 team drills. He’s been participating in them all spring and knows what’s expected.

Jason Kelce, on the other hand, had been sitting out that portion of practice as he continued to recover from a torn ACL. But Tuesday, for the first time, Kelce lined up as the Eagles’ starting center, and he decided to go all out, mixing it up with Dixon on the very first snap.

“I think I was probably going a little bit harder than I should have in OTAs, and Antonio didn’t like it so we kind of got in a scuffle,” Kelce said with a laugh. “But it’s all good. We’ll be friends when we go back in there.”

In many ways, Tuesday provided the most encouraging sign the Eagles have seen all offseason: the (likely) first-team offensive line on the field together. To Kelce’s right were Todd Herremans and first-round pick Lane Johnson. To his left were Evan Mathis and Jason Peters.

Mathis had missed time as he recovered from offseason ankle surgery. Peters, who is recovering from an Achilles’ injury, missed last week because of a personal issue, but was back on the field Tuesday. The five-time Pro Bowler has drawn overwhelmingly positive reviews from coaches and teammates. He’s sounded confident all offseason, and that continued yesterday.

“Come check me out on Sunday, preseason games. You’ll see if I’m back,” Peters said, via the Daily News. “You be the judge. I know y’all always writing stuff about different stuff, but you be the judge of it. I’m gonna go out there and play as hard as I can. I’m not gonna win all the battles, but I’m gonna win most of ‘em.”

Peters has been a full participant all spring, while Kelce and Mathis were eased back in on Tuesday.

Players returning from knee injuries sometimes have to battle an instinct of hesitancy. Even though the pads weren’t on, that doesn’t seem to be the case with Kelce.

“To tell you the truth, I don’t notice it when I’m out there,” he said. “I more notice it when I’m doing individuals or things that are a little bit slower paced. When I’m going full speed, everything happens so fast, you don’t really have time to [think], ‘What’s my knee feel like?’”

“It’s a very good feeling when you haven’t played football against a defensive player in eight months. …To know that you’re that much closer, to know that your knee is still feeling great when you’re doing stuff like that, it feels awesome. It’s a very frustrating feeling to finish that season the way it went and also to just be in the rehab room and the training room for eight months.”

Kelce, Herremans, Peters and Mathis are all coming off of injuries. And Johnson will have to prove he can be a quick learner as a rookie.

But on paper, the offensive line has a chance to return to being a strength of this football team, like it was in 2011.

Follow Sheil Kapadia on Twitter and e-mail him at skapadia@phillymag.com.
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  • S.Paxson

    Ok this starting unit obviously needs an epically cool universal nickname. Who is going to start the brainstorm process?

    • southy

      The Big, The Fast, and the Kelce
      4 gimps and a rook
      Ten(don)acious O

      … it’s a work in progress.

      • nicksaenz1

        Lig-A-Ment, Just a Little Bit

        • S.Paxson

          Hahahahah the cavalary of cadaver ligaments

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    If this line stays healthy, it can be one of the best in the league. Definitely the most athletic. They can win us some games next year.

    • Dutch

      So long as Peters is healthy this is one of the League’s Better Offensive Lines. If Peters is not available, all bets are off. Peters can make anybody lining up with him better.

      • nicksaenz1

        Is that why Evan Mathis graded out higher last year without Peters to his left than in 2011? Just making the point. Obv, the line is better with him on it, but the real beneficiaries are the QBs (drastically less pressure), the RBs (superior run blocking, see: Shady 2011 v 2012) and the TEs (they don’t have to chip before breaking off for routes). However, a lesser guard would certainly benefit, but luckily, we have Mathis.

        • Run Eagles Run

          that stat is bullshit. sure mathis may have “graded out” better without peters,.but youre retarded if you think the o-line isnt better with peters. where are you gonna send your defensive pressure if the other teams top tackle is out? not at mathis. at the guy taking peters spot.

          • nicksaenz1

            You might be retarded for missing that part where I said, “Obv, the line is better with him on it.” If you need help locating it, it’s on the second line of the post.

          • Run Eagles Run

            then what was the point of your comment? to say nothing? maybe you missed the part where I said they’re not sending the pressure at mathis, they are sending it at the back up, so your comment, as a whole, is worthless and retarded. dont be mad at me because you have nothing to say worth hearing. you’re misleading statement makes it sound as though peters doesnt make the guys next to him better… youre wrong, and stupid. sorry.

          • theycallmerob

            [...]the real beneficiaries are the QBs (drastically less pressure), the RBs
            (superior run blocking, see: Shady 2011 v 2012) and the TEs (they don’t
            have to chip before breaking off for routes) [...]

            many points were actually made. and save the keyboard warrior BS

          • Dutch

            I predicted you’d have nothing of value to input but make a pointless comment to involved yourself in their dispute. Trying I see to save the day for nick.

            So basically you’re contesting the original post that Without Peters it doesn’t matter who’s starting on the Eagles line, or where, they aren’t relevant in any discussion on being a good Offensive Line?

            That’s the crux of the discussion. Mathis, Kelce, Watkin and Herreman healthy don’t give the same performance if Peters isn’t anchoring the Eagles Offensive Line.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Oh so you’re saying taking a premier player out of a unit makes the rest of the unit not as good? Not exactly a revelation.

          • Dutch

            You’d be surprise on the blowback from that reason and, that some here think otherwise on that matter.

            I really think it’s only for argumentative purposes.

          • Run Eagles Run

            the best part is the nick whatever guy, after I challenged him, admits he was saying that to rile up his buddy. admits that the line is better with peters, that peters makes mathis’ job EASIER…. but STILL contests that peters doesnt make mathis “better”. LOL, and people still upvote. I love philly fans.

          • Dutch

            He’s a flag pin wearing member of the Hate Vick Fraternity that converge here and they support each other. Up Votes is their badge of courage regardless of how ridiculous and assuming their reason.

          • Run Eagles Run

            its really impressive, I must say.

          • nicksaenz1

            I love insults coming from a guy who claims to be the bastion of logic, yet, can’t execute basic command of the English language.

          • nicksaenz1

            It’s not a tough concept. Really, it’s not. There isn’t necessarily a correlation between the ease of a job and skill with which said job is done. That’s actually evidenced in Mathis’ grading in 2011 v 2012 with and without Peters. I’m going to up vote my own post now.

          • Run Eagles Run

            you admitted to trolling, and now you’re arguing semantics. its really pathetic that you cant admit you were wrong, and just arguing for the sake of an argument.

            “I’m going to up vote my own post now”

            Am I supposed to know what that means? You’re not very clever, So just come out and say what you mean.

          • nicksaenz1

            I’ve never trolled and certainly never admitted it. And semantics? Just say you have nothing with which to reply, because your labeling my post semantics says that you have nothing to say…. and the up vote was mocking your comment about the up vote. I’m out. You and dutch have fun.

          • Run Eagles Run

            thats because either you deleted or edited the comment, but you said you were basically just trying to get a rise out of dutch because you and he always get into it. AHAHA! You are truly pathetic. Nice cop out. Its ok, you and I know the truth. If you just never admit to saying something stupid, its almost like you really didnt say something stupid. This is why you cant have real discussions with stupid people, folks. They will never admit they were trolling, and if they do, they go back and delete it. But you and I know the truth. ****this is from my email alert, word for word you wrote this and then went back and deleted it***** “Dutch n I often go back n forth in these comments. I agree that the line is obv better w/ him on it. I pointed out something that works counter to his assertion in his last sentence to rile him up. Then you chimed in…”

          • nicksaenz1

            The post is still there, genius. And engaging another poster with whom I’m frequently in discussion, whether I want to be or not and regardless of intent, doesn’t constitute trolling. Keep trying.

          • Run Eagles Run

            keep denying. you admitted to intentionally trying to rile him up. pretty sure thats what trolling is all about. You nitpicked the meaning of some words with the sole purpose of ballbusting. Not because you had anything to add. You’re a troll. Sorry.

          • nicksaenz1

            Speaking of trolls, where did you come from?

          • nicksaenz1

            By your logic mathis didn’t block anyone at all and would therefore have no information to be evaluated thus having no basis to have been rated the best guard last year. Moreover, your statement is an assumption. So you should try less with the personal attacks and come with some facts to prove it. That Mathis was rated as the best guard in football last year and that he was rated better than he was in 2011 is a fact.

          • Dutch

            That wasn’t his logic that is just how you’d interpreted his remarks. Besides Carl Nicks & Jahri Evans are considered the best guards in Football. That’s not taking anything away from the effort Mathis gives, but it’s a stretch to claim Mathis is better than Nicks & Evans.

            You have a habit of twisting facts into a pretzel, you’re the guy that claimed I was distorting Nick Foles scouting reports coming out of Arizona, and posted a line to a report that laid the same claims I made you contested as true. I know how you exaggerate the facts to fit your narrative.

            It’s not as complex as you are pretending, Mathis a starter under most conditions, played on a Eagles line beside backups who would not be seeing substantial playing time in the NFL if health concerns were not the issue in 2012 for the Eagles Offensive Unit.

            Under those conditions how is it not possible to grade out higher than he would had Peters been playing?

          • nicksaenz1

            Must be fun to leave out facts. I posted another link to another scouting report that was far more favorable, proving that scouting reports vary, there’s entirely too many of them, and it’s easy to pick and choose to fit a narrative, which is your game, not mine. I know who’s paid as the best guards, and I can’t help that Mathis graded out better. But, he did. Peters makes the line, as a whole, better. He does not make individuals with the ability of a Mathis better on an individual basis.

          • Dutch

            You’re searching for “Favorable Reports” only to fit your narrative, but I applaud you for even trying and having the heart to post a link that verified exactly what I said Reports projected.

            I am sure if I wanted I could find reports that omitted Foles Flaws also, but I’m only interested in the truth not winning a debate.

          • JofreyRice

            No true scotsman fallacy.

          • cliff henny

            really regret not taking a logic course. keep pointing them out, i enjoy google searching them, lol

          • JofreyRice

            I feel like it should be taught in high school, or maybe even grammar school. So important.

            They are always updating and refining specific fallacies. I learned an older version with 7 basic ones, but there are a ton that are subcategories of those 7.

            Carl Sagan’s “Baloney Detection Kit” from The Demon Haunted World has a pretty good set, IMO.

          • cliff henny

            just wiki’d logical fallacies…which is more Dutch

            1.arguement of ignorance or

            2. arguement by assertion

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy

          • JofreyRice

            Whew, that’s a tough one. He’s really got a full toolbox when it comes to the fallacies. He’s like the ultimate weapon, capable of a little of everything. Definitely argument from ignorance (Chip Kelly hasn’t proven he won’t run the read option, so that means he will), appeal to the mob (Phila fans love Vick, so he must be the best choice), special pleading (only mentioning Foles’ shortcomings, ignoring/explaining Vick’s), begging the question & no true scotsman (ignoring the positive scouting reports as invalid, because, they *can’t* be true, because everyone knows Foles is a horrible player), argumentum ad hominem -poisoning the well (saying anyone who disagrees with him is not knowledgeable, a soccer fan, etc.), appeal to authority (citing scouting reports and his own personal knowledge as a fan to pronounce Foles a failure). I mean, really, you name it, he pretty much does it. I hadn’t seen that rational wiki before–now it looks like if he’s on a campaign of Argumentum Ad Nauseum.

            For a lot of folks, including you, he’s heavy into the strawman, pretending you are a huge Foles supporter. I’m not sure if he’s doing this purposefully for effect, or if he just doesn’t bother actually reading people’s responses. Considering he continued to mention that Vick was only at Va Tech for one year, even after I revealed to him that he was there for two, I think its more the latter.

          • cliff henny

            ooops, he just replied,,,ad hominem to the list. drop the box, and that’s what he is.

            fun list though. interesting book listed, 38 ways to win an arguement, by aurther shopenhauer. might have to order that, bet it would be great for sales

          • Dutch

            Well you don’t have much of an intellect to appeal to and become sensitive to facts. So it’s understandable how you can mischaracterize my post……………. Your attempt at wordsmithing makes you none the less more intelligent than anyone else participating here.

          • nicksaenz1

            the one commenting on another’s intelligence can’t use “nonetheless” correctly. that’s priceless.

          • theycallmerob

            Hahah glad your learning! Tis a fun game

          • cliff henny

            and you wanted to make it into a drinking game…holy smokes! i’d be drunker than a sailor on leave after 30 mins

          • theycallmerob

            Working in a public HS in baltimore city will build your tolerance quickly

          • Dutch

            It’s not that complex and you’re not that intelligent if it’s not deciphered by the accounts recanted by the players of the offense they’re spending time learning in camp this spring.

            All the nonsense you wrote only serves to confirm the degree of denial you are in with regards to the intentions thus far down at Novacare.

            You remind me of the other guy mentions the Belly, as if it’s a sophisticated play call when it’s nothing more than a play fake involving the Quarterback riding the ball with the running back.

            You guys prove every day and such small ways you know nothing about football, you key among the ill informed.

          • Dutch

            Argument or ignorance of……….. Wiki, you had better get a more credible source than that or you will be the class dunce and made to resemble a fool. You should feel simple now bringing up Wiki as a source of information you depend upon.

          • Dutch

            You’re never too old to learn, might I recommend “Reason for Dummies” it’s available at Amazon. com

            You can read and learn at a remedial pace.

          • cliff henny

            valuable insight as usual Dutch, thanks.

          • nicksaenz1

            i posted 2, one went each way. you sir, pick out select things that work for you to try to win a debate. thats all you do. and make unfounded assertions, cant leave that out…. and mathis improved, i understand, but assigning said improvement to peters is irresponsible.

          • Dutch

            Stop being so easy! I’m not the individual searching engines to find ammunition to stay credible in a discussion.

            I’ll give you credit for not pretending to be some psychoanalysis on a football blog. That you have going for you .

          • nicksaenz1

            Ha, keep your credit. You’re the last person that should be discussing credibility.

          • Dutch

            I didn’t post one report, the Report you posted in that instance validated everything I said Foles Scouting Reports claimed and projected he would be if put under the gun of an NFL Rush.

            Your argument in this case is built on false presumptions.

          • nicksaenz1

            You’re right, you didn’t post a report. Again, you’re making stuff up. I said I put up two, one was confirming of your opinion, the other not so much. Stop making things up to be relevant.

          • Dutch

            Mathis is worth his salt now he’s with the Eagles and playing with Peters. That’s not a reputation and recognition he developed at previous stops before lining up next to Peters. Whether you want to accept that truth or stay in denial.

        • Dutch

          Mathis seemingly graded out higher because he was playing along side backups on the NFL’s worse Offensive Line.

          With Peters available the Eagles are a better line, Peters drags the other linemen into better performances. With Peters availability Celek still has to chip and help Herremans, Herremans and Watkins are the path of least resistance for a defense.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    looks like very promising and strong line. much needed

  • jabostick

    In a post the other day, it mentioned a formation with both tackles on one side of the line. I’m picturing some crazy screen where Peters and Johnson (and Kelce) are flying up the field mowing down LBs and DBs while McCoy jogs behind them.

    • ClydeSide

      It’s the old single wing–Pop Warner circa 1910.

      • cliff henny

        hope kelly has a crazy new formation at least once a week…if for any other reason, the defense takes a time every time. never understood why teams dont do this more often. games have been won or lost by a single TO. plus, kelly will have the rep that there is a play, not like if coughlin did it, know it’s bs.

        • S.Paxson

          very nice point. Timeouts can be so valuable as we learned the hard way these past 14years. after seeing the same recycled plays year after year, just seeing some innovation will make this a great season. I look forward to many “What was that” moments. This is a very exciting time for fans such as myself that don’t follow college football. My exposure to the read option, and pistol formations is limited to what I saw last season around the NFL. But I very much look forward to seeing this different way of playing the game, and learning more about it. We might not be good in 2013, but I don’t see how we could be boring

        • theycallmerob

          When it comes to managing timeouts, I don’t think Kelly will have to do much to improve on Reid in that regard.
          Broke many remotes by the 10:36 mark in the 1st qtr, usually the latest he made it before calling one.

  • BrickSquadMonopoly

    The BAity associated with this Oline is very high

  • Rick H

    As encouraging as this sounds I feel we have to significantly improve the backup offensive lineman. If we have much better backups as compared to years past, then the team does not collapse if one of the big time studs like Peters goes down. It is a common problem throughout the league but I hope Chip Kelly thinks outside the box and keeps quality backups at least 4 maybe 5 olinemen.

    • Dutch

      Key point. Depth alone the Offensive Line is critical now and the coming years. I hope what I’m hearing is true: that the development of Dennis Kelly is coming along quite well. The Eagles need at the least two versatile linemen who can step in and the unit not miss a beat.

      Although I am concerned with Kelce returning from major knee injury and whether he can maintain his base in the battles with some of the nose tackles he will eventually square off against this year. It’s vital to prepare another talent along the line with the responsibilities of a center in a zone blocking scheme.

      • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

        Quality depth for all 3-4 backups in the NFL is just not possible in a flat salary cap world. Realistically you’ll have one quality guard/center, and one swing tackle. The guard/center spot is up for grabs, hopefully Kelly at swing tackle although I’m not sure about his ability to play LT effectively.

        Last year was situation that no team could be effective with 4 backups.

        • Dutch

          You get no argument from me, I totally agree. I just hope that D Kelly, based on his pedigree can mature into a credible contributors for not only relief but eventually to take over for the aging members on the current Offensive Line.

          I see Kelly as the utility guard or tackle, and there is a need for someone capable of playing center and guard but most importantly being able to understand the concept and call protections accurately.

    • Run Eagles Run

      they are in much better position, back up wise, this year than last when it comes to the o-line.

  • Warhound

    In general, regarding the mixing and matching of players -

    I should’ve realized this sooner. The way he mixes stuff up is like researchers setting up a long series of designed experiments. From the point of view of scientists, what NFL coaches deal with is mind boggling; 11 variables on offense with plenty of second and even third order interactions makes for a very complex system. I wonder if Chip has knowledge of Statistical Experimental Design.

    • southy

      I’d put money down that he’d look at you sideways if you asked him that.

      • Warhound

        Yeah…. but he did work at Universities for a long time. Also, he may use some of those techniques w/o knowing what others call it. Sigh…I’m probably reaching…

  • Dutch

    It’s nice to know Kelce will stand up for himself. I like the nasty and ruff attitude in offensive linemen. Peters doesn’t seem much for being diplomatic with reporters. This is a good sign from the anchor of the Eagles Line and not a horrible example for Lane Johnson to duplicate.

  • S.Paxson

    Sheil felt chips wrath today.

    And for those that have been wondering, Thorton dinged up his leg and they are just being cautious with him

    • cliff henny

      ok, i’ll bite…what happened?

  • Maggie

    Strange. Some of us moved to this site for quality, insightful writing. By the authors AND by the people commenting. Then we find a page-and-a-half of name-calling. No better than philly.com and not much better than BleedingGreenNation. C’mon, people.

    • Dutch

      Those with respect for the quality of the post by the authors and their work as professionals can disagree without being disagreeable.

      Debating sports in Phila can be contentious, however disparaging remarks and personal attacks does not have to be part of the exchange.

      But some of the exchanges are comical.

  • nicksaenz1

    Sorry you had to delete a ton of comments, Sheil :(

  • Max Lightfoot

    This is (or perhaps used to be) one of the cooler blogs out there. So why all the keyboard warrior flatus? I don’t care whose argument is logical or who has the most experience with football. WE ARE FANS – or at least I am. Really folks, life is too dang short to be squabbling online with others. The quality of Sheil’s and T-Mac’s writing deserves better. Sheesh …

  • Dutch

    You’re not going to find an alumni of the NFL who currently analysis football or many Eagles fans who disagree with your sentiment.

  • nicksaenz1

    This post was about the line. Let’s leave the QB convo out of it.

  • Richard Colton

    G. Cobb has been sucking up to players since he was one. He’s a notorious Vick sycophant, so right there I question the honesty of the article.

    His argument is that since A) Chip Kelly “loves the read option” and B) Vick is the fastest QB than C) Vick is the best QB for Chip Kelly. I would agree with his conclusion if A were true. Except we don’t know that. Does anyone (other than Gary Cobb) think Chip Kelly will run the read option offense? He may call the play twice a game. Maybe. Do you keep a QB because he gives you an advantage on those two plays? It’s unlikely.

    Even though G.Cobb’s argument is terrible and unfounded, The conclusion may still be correct. Mike Vick may be the best QB on this team. I still don’t want him to start because I’m tired of the fool’s gold. He’s never going to be the kind of QB this team needs to win a Superbowl.

  • cliff henny

    honest question, not being a jerk (cause i’m actually pulling for vick)…but what makes you think this year will be any different than past 6,8 or 10 yrs? trust me, i want the 2010 washington Redskins Vick too. i’m just willing to say vick is vick, take the good with the bad, put running game around him and hope it clicks. i dont have any hopes he’s going to change his TO rate all that much, just curb it some with fewer high risk touches (like qb sneaks from the 3) and less 7 step 4 sec holds

  • Nicholas Disilvestro

    You guys need to get a cardboard cutout of vick and get a motel room together. Seriously.

  • Warhound

    ” All the fans hate him…” Not so!
    Many of us respect and even like Vick; we’re just not all convinced that he can lead the Eagles to long term success. I trust (hope?) that Kelly will make the correct call.

  • cliff henny

    ok, but that’s not vick changing, that’s simply the offense changing(did you hear sal pal ask him what it’d be like to be in this offense at 22 instead of 32..vick just got wide-eyed and said ‘yeah’.) and vick being the better option. he’ll have to take check-down/quick reads, or kelly will hook him. like running backs with these zone-reads, they may take the option that yields more yards that one time, but it’s the incorrect read and that gets them benched. i’m really not against either, really, i’m for ’14 draft. think both can and will put up points, upside of vick if it ever clicks is tough to match.

    vick changing is learning to slide/protect himself in general, giving up on play/stop hero ball, being more accurate wth better touch on short passes (he really fires some in high and hot). i agree that reid’s offense was out of control high risk for a a guy with serious TO rate and an o-line in shambles. would have loved to seen reid call the gameplan for vick he did for foles.

  • S.Paxson

    I really don’t get why fans feel the need to kill each other over the QB is. Sorry to say, but none of us know anything about how Vick can look after one offseason in a new offense, and we know even less about what Foles is capable of. So it kind of weird to see fans going to War everyday over things they don’t even really know.

    I’m very excited to see all 3 qbs in the preseason, and I have no favorite in this race. Whoever provides me with a better offense to watch on Sunday, is the guy I want to start. My only thing is, because Vick is a veteran, if he isn’t head and shoulders above the kids, then I would prefer to go young. I root for all 3, and I hope that chip keeps his word and the best man wins

  • nicksaenz1

    Well now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

  • nicksaenz1

    The QB exposure is the reason why it’s a penalty to hit a sliding QB.

  • Guest

    I certainly don’t hate Vick. He’s a great athlete, an average-at-best QB overall, and is 33 this month. He’s more than likely not getting better, and is not the future. He is what he is at this point. Some of us would rather see what Foles or Barkley can do. I think it’s fair to say that all of us want the best man to win the competition, but just have varying opinions on who that may be.

  • nicksaenz1

    It’s a pretty solid deterrent since most coaches frown upon 15 yard penalties.

  • cliff henny

    watch kaep or wilson play, or college game with some of these spread guys like marioti, boyd and manziel, they’ve learned to run to the sidelines. often, running out taking less yards. simply, they rarely get hit. RG3 is terrible at it, got away, like vick, by being greatest athlete on field. both need to learn to get to the sidelines and get out! shanarat is also a moron for calling zone reads where rg3 is running up the middle. vick did it on his own and diving head first. if he does that, he wont last this season either, no one can.

  • nicksaenz1

    Well if you want him to last you should want him to slide in the manner that protects him. If he slides head first, he’s fair game still (and fumbles sometimes). If he slides feet first, he’s not supposed to be hit, and if he is, it’s a 15yd penalty. So if he’s going to get down, I’d prefer him doing so in a manner that protects himself more and causes him to fumble less. Are ya pickin up what I’m puttin down?

  • theycallmerob

    I’ll second that, Warhound.

    Nothing against Vick at all. I merely infer from the clues the organization puts out in the big picture sense: new coach, new (long-term) vision, youth movement, focus on skills like accuracy and decision-making that are (refutably) not Vick’s strengths.

    Even if he does well….then what? He’s 33 and UFA next year. And it wouldn’t expedite the development of Foles or Barkley.

  • cliff henny

    he’s kind of making my original point, at this time, Vick is Vick. can kelly’s offense round off some of the sharp edges? that’s my hope. if not, foles is waiting in wings. i dont think either is future, a, you dont give guy 1 yr contract at 33 if he is and b, foles and barkely are 3rd and 4th round draft picks for a reason. think that trio can get us thru this year, there’s plenty on kelly’s plate besides long term qb solution and let kelly hand pick his reid/mcnabb(mean, that worked pretty well, not perfect)

  • nicksaenz1

    I said “more than likely”. Because it’s more than likely that a 10yr vet doesn’t get much better than what’s been shown. It was not a definitive statement.

  • nicksaenz1

    I thought I deleted the post. Was trying to avoid further discussion. Didn’t realize it turned me into guest.

  • Dutch

    What do you base Foles being able to get the Eagles through this season on the results form his appearances last year?

    That’s a ridiculous assumption. The point the guest made isn’t relevant simply because this year it’s a new scheme one definitely suited for Vick’s unique skill set, one in which other teams around the NFL are adopting because of the success the decision makers in the NFL have taken notice of.

    Nothing in Vick’s game has to change for the Read Option, to show and play better than he was under Andy Reid. Simply requires the new scheme being implemented down at Novacare, that doesn’t involve depending on long developing plays down field behind a ineffective offensive line.

    By the way, the same Reid Scheme that didn’t work for Vick in 2012, definitely didn’t work for Nick Foles who played when Vick was concussed.

    Foles in case it’s escaped you also is not a quick decision maker, and doesn’t play well following progressions and comes up short on long balls.

  • nicksaenz1

    couldn’t agree more.

  • nicksaenz1

    I did.

  • cliff henny

    it’s the internet…nothing is deleted…just ask some of my ex’s…clickclick

  • nicksaenz1

    hahaha

  • S.Paxson

    If I’m not mistaken, you just quoted GI Joe? You get style points for that comment

  • nicksaenz1

    I did. It’s often applicable.

  • nicksaenz1

    And FYI, you’re entire first post was intended as an attack.

  • Richard Colton

    feel free to continue to avoid the argument. that’s what you do best, isn’t it? If Vick ran an offense the same way you ignore logic, he’d be a perennial All Pro.

    A guy who lives in Atlanta and calls himself “VickSupporter” pretending to be objective about the QB race.

  • Dutch

    Living in Phila provides no more ability to be logical or objective in the discussion surrounding the Eagles Quarterback than someone posting from the moon.

    The beginning and end generally comes with the ability to eye talent and the key attributes of the candidate you’d most like to see leading the Eagles.

    Foles backers believe he has shown in his 6 starts some ability to become an NFL Starter in 2013, which is based solely on fallacy created by an illusion of having seen potential that point blank just is not within Foles at this time in his young career.

    Given the same game scenario they provide a multitude of excuses for Foles obvious failures and mechanics that makes him a liability in facing NFL Defenses. He has no ability to play in a progression offense, nor has he the ability to make quick decisions and has wretched footwork and a looping delivery that allows competing defenders to break on his throws. His accuracy is to be desired. It is common you’ll find Floes receivers having to stop and reach for his balls in the intermediate and short routes, and he doesn’t have zip on the out routes. The kid throws flutter long balls that Jackson usually out runs. With work he’ll graduate to become a serviceable backup in the NFL.

    This isn’t a new development, coming out of Arizona his scouting reports laid out these very flaws in his game and projected he needed a few years serving as an understudy before he come become ready for the big stage.If thrown to the wolves he would be subject to a high rate of turnovers.

    In 6 games Foles managed 5 TDs, 6 Interceptions and 8 Fumbles and a pocket presence that saw the kid sacked 20 times despite not having been blitzed to often. There was no reason to blitz Folesin 2012 , he was a turnover waiting to happen.

  • nicksaenz1

    I’ve been trying to figure out if he’s from Oklahoma or Atlanta. He’s probably on his computer up in Northeast.

  • Nicholas Disilvestro

    A great deal of the Vick supporters will be gone when he leaves. They aren’t Eagles fans. They only care about the success of this team as long as Mike is the QB.

  • Dutch

    Logically, if the media is reporting on the installment of the Read Option and the Eagles players on Offense in their interviews are saying they are learning the Read Option, Then is it logical to assume the Eagles intentions are to run another offensive scheme?

    Would it be reasonable to conclude the Eagles are intending on running the Read Option? Or, do you propose that the Eagles are spending the entire spring in meetings and practice wasting time playing catch learning a scheme they never intend to apply? Would that be your logic?

  • Run Eagles Run

    Im not saying mathis is bad, or that he didnt have to block anyone. Im saying you cant just look at that stat and say “peters doesnt make mathis batter because of this stat”. Mathis is good. He has gotten better each year. Lets see how he does with peters out there this year. lets see if he continues to get better, stays the same, or regresses. they you can trot out your bullshit stats. if you took my first post as an attack on you, Im sorry, but I was more attacking the stat used, and then contradicted yourself with by saying the line was better with peters. how can the line be better with peters and in turn make evan mathis play at a lower level? how is that possible? please explain it to me, if you can. how does an easier job make him play worse? please explain to my inferior mind.

  • Richard Colton

    I’m saying Atlanta. And I’m calling a violation on a guy who follows his favorite player from team to team. I loved Reggie as a kid, but I own zero Packers gear.

  • nicksaenz1

    Dutch n I often go back n forth in these comments. I agree that the line is obv better w/ him on it. I pointed out something that works counter to his assertion in his last sentence to rile him up. Then you chimed in…

  • Nicholas Disilvestro

    That really is my main argument against bringing him back. What do we do with him next year? Does anybody outside of the more delusional Vick supporters want to give him another 2 or 3 year deal with his injury history? If he does well does he come back here if another team throws more money and years at him?

    My fear is we spend most of the season with him as qb, he leaves in FA or isnt brought back and we still have a giant question mark at qb. Do we end up spending a high draft pick on a qb next year? Does Chip want to wait a year or two while this qb develops? I dont want that, and I think most fans dont either.

    I just dont see the rational in bringing him back. I have a hard time beliving he is a part of Chips long term plans, and if he is I have serious concerns about Chip and the future of this team.

  • Dutch

    the history on the Eagles Quarterbacks currently on their rosters suggest the only decision maker with a consistent history of good accuracy, field vision and good mechanics is Matt Barkley. Those attributes were definitely missing in Foles game as we all saw last year. There is talk of some mythical pocket presence, but if that were the case he would not have been sacked 20 times despite not having to contend with teams constantly blitzing him. So I don’t know how that lie developed but it’s on tape.

    You have NEVER read a report on Foles complimenting his decision making, field vision, mechanics and accuracy as his strengths. Foles can’t make all of the throws necessary to be a threatening NFL Quarterback and that was crystal clear in 2012 as was his inability to follow his progression in the patterns run by the receivers.

  • Capt. Undapants

    Awesome. I was wondering when we were going to have a new GGeagle/Matt Jacobs.

  • cliff henny

    if you believe jofrey..s. paxson, too

  • cliff henny

    dont lie, it doesnt.

  • theycallmerob

    “you gotta use psychology”

  • JofreyRice

    Nah, I dont think Matt Jacobs has anything to do with GGEagle/GEagle/J.Paxon/J.Paxson/GPaxon/JohnGiam/GPaxsonEagle whatever.

    It’s funny, BGN put an article up about draft prospect S Dexter McCoil about how the GEagle/JohnG guy uses a bunch of aliases, and had basically “taken over” the commenting section of this blog. Hey, he can do his thing, I just find it somewhat interesting because it’s so weird.

  • Run Eagles Run

    haha, it was a joke man. I still think youre nitpicking from the start by saying OP was wrong to say peters makes whoever’s next to him better. you even admitted such. but Im an ignorant homophobic asshole, so you “win”.

  • Run Eagles Run

    I assure you message boards dont effect my sleep patterns either way. thats probably hard for someone like you to believe, having invested so much time here, but its true.

  • Richard Colton

    You haven’t really made an argument, so other than circular logic (I believe that’s called a “Dutch Oven” around here), I’m not sure against what I’m supposed to argue. I mean – it’s pretty clear you’re trolling, but you’ve lost and have been embarrassed. Shouldn’t you slink away now?

  • nicksaenz1

    lol dude i was kidding!… i said he’d make a lesser guard better, but a guy w/ the ability of Mathis? Hard to say that, IMO…. “winning!”

  • nicksaenz1

    l

  • Run Eagles Run

    Who is arguing? I just said you know Im right, so you had to resort to focusing on peripheral things. I guess Im trolling cause I have a different opinion? Im supposed to slink away cause you pointed out my bad grammar? Haha, you take commenting on blogs too seriously.

  • Dutch

    Well, what nerve!!!!

  • Capt. Undapants

    I was thinking more from the new aggressive poster of Eagles 24/7 angle.

  • Dutch

    Well Played Sir…….. Well Played.

  • Dutch

    No, Vick’s never going to be the kind of Quarterback you prefer.

    It’s widely accepted among NFL alumni who are currently in positions as analysis across the spectrum of Media formats that Chip Kelly will and is indeed implementing the offense that has been a success for him in his career and one he’s seen become popular in the NFL at least among the competing teams for the 2012 Super Bowl Championship.

    The players to the man on offense all speak to the installs currently at mini camp as being those of the Read Option. Those who continue to claim it’s unknown what offense Kelly is installing are in deep denial of the basic facts as they are being reported by the media and players in those interviews.

  • Dutch

    The vast majority of Eagles fans support Vick and admire his work on and off the field. To be in opposition to Vick is the minority opinion in the Eagles fan base.

    Even here on this forum there are less than 8 dissenters in the pseudo fraternity of Vick haters.

  • Richard Colton

    yes. because I know that the calling the Eagles 2013 offense the “read option” would be like calling the Eagles 2013 defense the “3-4.” I know that because I’ve been paying attention.

    The read option play was the vogue call last year, but (like the Wildcat in 2010) it was used a lot more sparingly than you suggest. League average 32 times a week. I doubt Chip will call Belly more than 2X per game.

    Looks like you, and G.Cobb, and the people who will hang on to anything to bolster the Mike Vick argument are the only ones left in America who think that Chip Kelly is “running the Read Option.”

  • JofreyRice

    Please stop typing the term “logic” in your posts. There is a chance you might create a paradox on the space-time continuum and end the universe as we know it, which would seriously bum me out, because I’m looking forward to a really delicious hoagie for lunch.

  • Richard Colton

    it’s a conspiracy so immense…

  • Dutch

    This is pure fantasy. 3 of the competing teams in the NFC playoffs ran the Read Option and one of the Teams playing in the Super Bowl found success with the offense.

    Kelly is spending the spring installing the Read Option, he’s seen the scheme find success overwhelmingly in the NFL and in the Conference he’s now a coach and you are selling the warped idea he intends to implement some other scheme after working all springing installing routes, and concepts related to the Read Option.

    Tell me do you have a Unicorn tied up outside?

    Your argument defies logic

  • JofreyRice

    Yeah. I have to say, initially, I was pretty sure he was going to feature the read-option prominently; with the selection of Barkley, and the state of the QB comp, I’m much less sure now.

    I don’t think there is any way Foles & Vick would still be so close in the starting QB competition if the basis of the offense was Read-option; Vick’s physical talents would just overwhelmingly tip the scales in his favor, if that were the case.

    At this point, I’m really content to let it play out, without prognostication. We’re not going to know what a Chip Kelly pro offense looks like until we see it with live rounds.

  • Dutch

    That’s not a bright question. Scheme of course.

    The games must look a lot different on television. It’s pretty apparent some of you haven’t spent much of any time actually visiting football fields, or watching High School or College Football in person.

    Go watch some good High School games, where the activity is slower than at the College and Pro Level and that way you are able to see the development of plays. When you’ve mastered watching those games, go see a professional game and watch the speed and expertise as the plays develop. Let me warn you, you may miss those portions of the game that sell well on television but you are most likely going to be mesmerized by the complex movements and see how one assignment is critical to another to make a play successful.

    If Vick or any other QB isn’t protected they’re going to turn the ball over on fumbles. When it comes to Interceptions Vick has never lead his division, conference of the NFL in throwing Interceptions in any season he’s been active.

    The fumbles are a problem because of the punishment he takes, but he talk of interception is exaggerated by the local Phila media and those talk radio stations. The stats are a click away on the internet so when there is talk on his interceptions on the web it’s only hyperbole and fiction to fit into a narrative in a mythical case against Vick.

    For instance, He threw 10 ints in 10 Games in 2012, While Foles threw 6 in 6 games, but Vick is the turnover machine and there’s not a peep about Foles rate of turnovers in his games in 2012? What could motivate that among the minority of Fans in the Fraternity Hating Vick?

  • cliff henny

    dutch, stop being a collasal tool and then reply to my posts

  • Dutch

    The dilemma is Chip Kelly doesn’t have two years to get the Eagles back on track or wait for a QB to develop. Eagles fans are not patient enough to lose with Foles under the guise of developing. That’s wishful thinking but there isn’t a QB/Coach combination in the NFL that can lose over two years and find job security.

    Because the Eagles are in a period of transition isn’t excuse enough to not have a winning record in 2014. Chip Kelly may get by without a playoff appearance in 2013, but he’s not surviving through 2014 without challenging for the division crown.

    Chip earns $6 Million annually, he doesn’t have time to watch Foles develop and it’s for that reason he’s going with Vick this year in hope that Barkley is ready near the end of this year but definitely for the immediate future. He’s watched tape of Foles in 2012 and he obviously isn’t comfortable leaving his job security in the hands of the QB he saw during his years at Oregon and from 2012 with the Eagles.

    If Chip hasn’t shown his hand yet, he’s definitely shown he has no confidence in Foles at this point.

  • Dutch

    Stop with the fictitious accounts of what Foles brings to the table.

  • cliff henny

    do you even read threads you respond to? you come into every cconversation with an agenda.

  • JofreyRice

    oh my god, do you ever get tired of this same stupid argument?

  • cliff henny

    u r an idiot…read the thread…i’m actually a vick backer. god u r worthless. i generally neve respond to your posts, cause i find you annoying and only an agenda driven poster.

  • Dutch

    No, just mythical delusions common to individuals who’ve never run a route or blitzed a Quarterback.

    A larger portion of the writers in the clown tent also known as the Phila media write from that very perspective.

  • cliff henny

    and the conversation wasnt even about foles vs vick. it was about why will vick be different this year. my premise is vick is vick, and i’m ok with that, hopefully kelly’s scheme rounds off edges, while vick supporrter stated he thought vick would change. ‘change’ is the operative word…i take that as a mental or physical adaptation. vick supporter just took it as he will performbetter cause of scheme. take dutch’s usual garbage out, and it was a pretty good conversation.

  • Dutch

    Why when it’s a demonstrated truth that you can’t refute?

  • Dutch

    Stop eating at your desk. It is not sanitary and defies office etiquette .

  • theycallmerob

    Thank you…..every one here calls it a sub or sandwich. Its a hoagie!!! Does no one know the history of this great nation???

  • Dutch

    That has nothing to do with the illusions you propose on Nick Foles attributes. It’s pretty imbecilic of you to suggest after his disaster performance in 2012 to remotely suggest he’s a legitimate candidate to lead any NFL team.

    You don’t respond because you don’t have the capacity to maintain civility.

  • Dutch

    Well Scheme is the defining logical choice in this situation. Vick won’t be forced to settle down in a compromised pocket and wait on slow developing plays down field in this offense.

    The Scheme Foles and Vick played in last year was a disaster for both being Foles definitely did no better than he had at Arizona and the scheme definitely didn’t show he had yet mastered any strengths needed to be considered good enough to play at this level.

  • nicksaenz1

    Why send more than 4 defenders when the line couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag? He faced more defenders in coverage, on average, than Vick if Vick was blitzed more. One would think that the higher completion percentage despite facing more defenders in coverage on average would speak positively of the kid, but you find a way to make it negative. Unreal, man.

  • nicksaenz1

    I love when you speak for the fans. Most fans I know want him gone but will support our QB, whomever it is, they just prefer him gone. But I live in Philly, so I must not know.

  • nicksaenz1

    Ah, logic. Thank you.

  • Dutch

    Really, that’s a conscious decision to remain in denial.

    We know what Kelly is installing and intends on running. For the love of god his reputation preceded his arrival to the NFL.

    Kelly was pursued by a number of teams with high draft picks in the 2012 Draft but he chose Phila and his first decision was to retain Mike Vick at any cost. He could have signed Carson Palmer or traded for Alex Smith hell he could have went to San Diego who had Phillip Rivers.

  • Dutch

    It’s not that complicated. I come with the intent to refute the exaggerated lies and myths that in Phila through the biased media has gotten out of hand. Similar to your earlier mantra in regard to interceptions and Mike Vick……. Where is there any evidence Vick throws an alarming amount of interceptions in any year he’s been active in the NFL?

    My brother says the same nonsense out of frustration and he’s never played a down of football either.

  • cliff henny

    that’s pretty much everyone i know in philly…mon-sat, anyone but vick, knowing in back of head he’s best chance for W. but gameday comes and all personal feelings go out the window, let’s see what this horrid of a human can do to get us a victory

  • Dutch

    That’s the small circle you are exclusive too, overwhelmingly the spectrum of Eagles Fans admire and Support Vick Starting.

    So all that tells us is you don’t socialize with many Eagle fans and your opinions are draw from the closed minded Eagles beat writers and radio personalities there.

    Some of you would rather the Eagles post a 3-13 Record with a losing Foles than a 9-7 Playoff qualifier under Vick.

    It’s not Vick and the offense that will doom the Eagles this year, but rather Defense as it has doomed the Eagles the previous two years.

    The Eagles Defense and Nick Foles isn’t selling to Eagles Fans. We would never be able to sell seats on the Ticketmaster Exchange with Foles leading the Eagles attack.

  • nicksaenz1

    Exactly, however, given the 12-20 record the past two seasons, “best chance to win” isn’t exactly a label of praise.

  • Dutch

    Then you also are limited to your associations with like minded individuals who think as you think because not a lot of Eagles Fans at the Linc care about his antics that got him to Phila. It’s common that those in opposition hold against Vick his past troubles and those can’t be objective although they may as as if but deep inside the meat eaters hold his troubles against him.

    But at the Linc it would be hypocrisy to hold some resentment against Vick while stuffing shredded rib eye and cheeze wiz in there mouths. Especially the hunters who kill for sport and not substance.

  • nicksaenz1

    If it were at “any cost” he’d still be getting 15mil. Come on, dude.

  • JofreyRice

    Hmm, seems like if he wanted to “retain Mike Vick at any cost” they would have not renegotiated his salary down from 15.5 mil and openly stated he was in a QB competition with Foles.

    You can’t possibly *know* exactly what Chip Kelly is going to do, until he does it. Besides the fact that Kelly has never crafted a pro offense before, just let a little bit of reasoning seep into that melon. I agree that there might be some read-option elements involved, but if that were truly the basis for the offense, don’t you think Vick would be clearly way ahead of Foles at this stage, preparing to run it?

  • cliff henny

    no, it’s not, but my hope is kelly’s system can smooth off some of vick’s edges. invested 3 yrs into the guy, i’ll give him one more. cant stand the messenger, but the message is correct by dutch in regards to foles. i dont see it, but think he deserves a chance.

  • Dutch

    How many were given away by the Defense who could not protect leads, or by players who fumbled the ball on key drives in the 4th quarter? I can think of 3 or 4 Offensive mishaps with the Game on the line that didn’t involve Vick, and 4 or 5 Games the Defense could not hold leads late in the 4th quarter.

    Were you watching or are you depending on second and third hand accounts?

    What could have inspired Kelly to Draft a Tackle and Dismantle the Eagles defense?

  • Dutch

    Palmer and Smith would not have cost $3.5 Million in March and the remainder of the 2013 Contract Vick is scheduled to earn would have paid the 2013 salary portions of both their salaries.

    $500K more than Vick’s March Check from the Eagles could have paid both Palmer and Smith and if not Smith not a lot more was necessary.

  • cliff henny

    ints, no, ints plus fumlbes, yes. guy turns it over too much. cant argue that. when they say cant read defenses, too arbitrary, they dont know. you really just need to stop generalizations (everyone in philly…it makes you sound like a 5 yr old), assumption of someone’s position and using obvious agenda driven facts, like only using ints when my post clearly states TO. your posts might be better recieved

  • cliff henny

    wrong again dutchess…i said TOs, int + fumbles. there is no arguement, vick turns it over too much. another agenda driven post.

  • Richard Colton

    Tell me jefe – do you even know what a plethora is?

    But alright, I bow to your superior knowledge of the game. Chip Kelly is 100% installing a college offense. And that offense will feature as its sole play – the “Read Option” which was run last year an average of 2X per game and is likely to get our 32 year old QB killed. I know you like sweeping generalizations like “every educated fan” and “All media outside Philly.” – but can you point to one NFL writer besides G.Cobb who thinks CK is running the Read Option? I’ll wait. Provide links.

  • cliff henny

    so you know more people in philly than nick, who lives there, and myself, i lived ther for 30 yrs, worked for 3 major company, each literally 1000′s of employees along with my own friends and family, jofrey, rob and richard(sure each similar to me), all of whom dont know eachother outside this site. do you see how dumb you sound? speak for yourself, it’s the only subject your a proficient on, trust me, we’ve read your posts

  • cliff henny

    better hit the head and pick up dinner, you’ll be waiting a long time

  • Dutch

    Sure I do……… because I don’t live in Philly doesn’t preclude me from associations, family and friends there.

    How small is your world? I’m at most Eagles game weather on the Road or at the Linc, and attend Phillies and Sixers Game depending on my travel schedule. I never miss a meaningful Fight in Atlantic City or Brooklyn and pretty much a fixture in the north stands at the Penn Relays.

    Next year I have to free up Fridays to make my nephew’s Football Games in Philly, he’s a Freshmen moved up to Varsity at mid Season last year. I can’t miss any more of this games, he following in my Footsteps, a Regular Chip off the ole Block. He’ll be All Public End this year as a sophomore.

  • nicksaenz1

    i have a vick jersey. i dont hold his past troubles against him. i hold his performances of the last 2 seasons against him…. and just because people dont agree with your point of view doesnt mean theyre in the minority. and no one is at the linc except for 8 days a year, that means theyre at work, likely, and usually interacting w/ people such as cliff, rob, myself, etc. so speaking for the people at the linc, some of whom we interact with on a daily basis (since we actually live here), makes you a liar, and im sure those people who dont know you probably dont want you to speak for them.

  • cliff henny

    i hold both against him…and still root for him. gameday at the linc probably isnt the best way to get an honest sample set either.

  • Dutch

    No, I made it perfectly clear you’re in the minority in wanting to see anyone other than Vick on his roster Start. It has zero to do with my opinion. You could not have made that mistake without intentions because I’ve been clear on that matter if nothing else.

    I’m not guessing on that, it’s clear that the vast majority of Eagles fans at the Linc week in and week out support Vick, that’s not to say we aren’t frustrated but when taken into account the scheme he was boxed into by Andy Reid we know the problem and hopefully it’s in the rear view mirror.

    But I’m all in on Matt Barkley as the Future of the Eagles, make no mistake about that.

    My current interest is Vick because with Vick I’m likely to sale tickets I don’t use and recoop my money. With Foles in I don’t have a chance to break even on tickets. Most Ticket Holders feel the same way. 200 Level Seating resale for double face value and Box Seating depending on the game bring a nice profit.

  • cliff henny

    you’ve used this before, and also like before ignore draft picks needed to get both smith and palmer. also, if vick wasnt resigned, he would have been 7m in dead money this year. in the end, vick was cheapest in terms of money and resources at the time.

  • Dutch

    Why not, those are the Fans with a vested financial interest. But the admiration for Vick goes beyond those that actually attend games. Again, there is only about 8 of you in the Fraternity of Hate Vick on this forum.

    I just enjoy antagonizing you the others can’t stand to deal with you.

  • nicksaenz1

    supporting your team is common among fans of a team. weird concept right? doesn’t preclude them from desiring a different qb.

  • nicksaenz1

    You’re the same guy who said in a post recently that you come to a game a year, and now you’re at every major event in Philly, AC, Brooklyn, high school games, pee wee games, WNBA games. You’re a joke.

  • Dutch

    You can’t find that post because it doesn’t exist. I don’t think attending a sporting event is a major issue and supporting family isn’t a new concept at least among civiles individuals. I don’t watch WNBA, I’d rather spend time watching NASCAR races, ever been to Dover or a NASCAR Race? The Baltimore Grand Prix is pretty nice.

  • cliff henny

    try living in myrtle beach…best i can do is jersey mike’s

  • nicksaenz1

    You poor thing. Beach life must be rough (excluding hurricane season)

  • cliff henny

    it’s myrtle beach, mostly old angry retired people. now, i lived in LA on the beach too, that’s to be jealous of..had to leave, life/sanity reasons

  • nicksaenz1

    it exists, but even if iI dug thru the last 6 weeks of updates and showed it to you, you’d just edit the post like you always do

  • Nicholas Disilvestro

    Other than letting him split reps with Vick? The bucs offered us a pick for Foles during the draft….if Chip didnt want him here and fighting for the starters job he would have been gone. You make good points sometimes but you obviously are so biased towards Vick it really take away any credibility from most of what you post.