Eagles Wake-Up Call: Vick Says Chip Is Slowing It Down

Believe it or not, the players have been going a little too fast for Chip Kelly’s liking. At least for right now.

“It was very difficult for us as a team at first because we just felt like we had to do everything so fast,” Michael Vick told Fox 29. “And it took for Chip to call us into the auditorium in a team meeting to say, ‘Listen, everybody relax and slow down.’

“You have to slow it down if you aren’t doing it right. You can’t be doing it at a fast pace and doing it wrong. Then it’s time to slow down and teach.”

The last couple practices the media has had access to have seemed a bit toned down compared to what we saw initially. The tempo has dropped a notch or two; same can be said for the music levels. Not coincidentally, this comes at a time when Kelly is going heavy on the installs. The action has been sloppy at times.

“We’re really starting to pile on now,” said Kelly. “And especially for some of the these young guys that piling on process…I think you can hit a wall a little bit, but they’ve got to fight their way through it.”

Some other highlights from the Vick interview:

Quarterbacks coach Bill Lazor says that he values accuracy and decision-making above all else. Vick advocated for himself in both respects.

“Sometimes we all put ourselves in a position where we wish we could have a certain pass back or two or three throws a game back that we can’t do over. My completion percentage has been around 60 percent for the last three years, so I think I’m doing something right. Can I get better? Yes. Can Chip Kelly help me get there? Yes.”

On Vick’s new way of protecting the football following Kelly’s instructions:

“As crazy as it may sound, I never carried the football correctly. And that’s partly my fault because my coaches always got everybody in a circle and did a four-points-of-pressure drill, and I never paid attention, thought I was doing it right. Now I know how to hold it. It feels comfortable, it’s tight, so I’m just trying to challenge myself each and every day and that’s what I’m doing.”

On getting asked about starting job:

“Yeah, it annoys me. It’s very annoying. But you know what? Right now I’m focusing on being the best person, the best quarterback on the field I can be. And that’s going to take being resilient after throwing an incomplete pass, being resilient when things aren’t going so well. How can you come back from it?

WHAT YOU MISSED

DeSean Jackson parts with agent Drew Rosenhaus.

The coaches are experimenting with Lane Johnson a bit. Sheil has the details.

Vinny Curry and Fletcher Cox discuss their new roles on defense.

In case you missed it, check out Kapadia’s running diary from Friday’s practice. Always a good read.

WHAT THEY’RE SAYING

Nick Menta caught up with Bennie Logan. The defensive lineman says that the rookies have been received warmly.

He hasn’t been here all that long, but to hear Logan tell it, last year’s fragmented locker room that helped lead to the ouster of head coach Andy Reid seems to have tightened up following the regime change.

“Just to be with the Eagles’ organization is a great honor,” he said. “The organization is starting to rebuild itself. My first day here, a lot of guys were a little nervous, wondering how it was going to be in the locker room, but the veterans were friendly.

“There’s a family bond here, that’s what we sensed as rookies. You could really sense the family bond. The older guys took us under their wing like little brothers and showed us how to do things around here.”

Donovan McNabb is a fan of RGIII, but doesn’t agree with everything he’s doing and wants to have a sit-down with him. From the Washington Post.

“It’s too much right now; it’s just too much,” McNabb said, speaking from his home in Arizona. “I get some of things he’s doing to draw attention to himself: the Adidas commercials, going out and enjoying the life of a young, famous NFL quarterback. I understand RG has a lot of stuff going on.

“But if you’re coming off ACL surgery, you don’t need to be having a press conference at OTAs. Every week? Really? It becomes a circus, a sideshow. It takes away from the focus of what those sessions are supposed to be about: the team.”

“One thing Andy Reid did is he never let the injured guys become the story if they were off to the side at practice,” McNabb added, referring to the former Eagles coach. “He thought it took away from the guys who were grinding and practicing every day.

“So when I look up on TV and see him up there talking all the time about how great he’s doing — or doing jumping jacks or someone else talking about his supernatural healing powers — I wonder to myself: Is this about selling tickets to the fans or what?

COMING UP

Mandatory minicamp runs Tuesday-Thursday. Will be a busy week.

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  • nicksaenz1

    “Shut the ____ up Donnie, you’re out of your element!”

    • theycallmerob

      I don’t get his complaint….what part of Wash. DC is not considered a circus/sideshow?

      • nicksaenz1

        That aside, what team in any relevant media market doesn’t grant the press time with the star players. His statement about Andy’s injured players being denied media time doesn’t strike me as accurate when discussing stars/franchise-type players. Wasn’t T.O. a storyline unto himself throughout the end of the 2004 season into and through the Super Bowl who had a mic in his face frequently? Another point, RGIII is a major component of that team, so, in effect, talking to RGIII is talking to the player largely responsible for the success they just had. AND, we just watched a 27/28 year old AP come back from an ACL tear in 8 months and nearly break the rushing record. It’s probably unfair, but people want to see if the 23 yr old freak athlete at QB can do the same thing.
        I hope RGIII stays away from McNabb for his own sake. The only thing that can happen to RGIII by engaging in such a relationship would be creating even more a media circus around him courtesy of the verbal diahrrea that continues to spew from McNabb’s mouth.

        • theycallmerob

          In relation to what you said about TO, that seemed more a product of TO than Reid; otherwise, I do somewhat agree with Donnie with regard to how tight-lipped Reid was about players to the media. Remember the storm after the super bowl, when TO was declaring the Vomit Heard Round The World to anyone and everyone? What really stands out in my (albeit, poor) memory are all the curious injuries to McNabb himself, where we often knew very little, and the debacle created after Kolb go injured in the ’10 opener and the “will he, won’t he” game played for weeks with the two QBs.

          But, back to RGIII- this follows Donnie’s borderline racist comments last week. I get it, RGIII had a good season but got injured, but its not like he’s the only one banging the drums. The media played up Dr. Andrews’ “knee like a baby” comments, and RGIII is the biggest thing to happen to that city in years. If Donnie really wanted to be portrayed as a somewhat useful analyst, he could spend 5 minutes talking about the other QB down there who will likely see some time, or maybe even that “other rookie” from last year who also made it to the playoffs. Some nobody in the Midwest, goes by Lucky I think….but Donnie don’t care. He’s white.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            I don’t understand this love affair McNabb has for RGIII. The kid handles himself fine, and as far as I know there is already an RGII, so he doesn’t need a father.

            Step off Donnie, this is borderline weird at best.

          • cliff henny

            seems like media outlets think mcnabb is best person to ask anything rg3 related since they have similar backgrounds. race, high draft pick, incredibly athletic, face of franchise, etc-is alot of similarities. don’s also trying to make himself into a talking head, so he’s feilding these questions often. not like he’s just a guy who’s retired, shows up at an event or two, discusses rg3 and than dissappears again (like if randall started rattling off sound bites about rg3…be little out of left field). pretty much anytime i see mcnabb on tv or print interview, the first question he gets is about griffen. now, will agree he’s not really a very good analyst yet.

          • JofreyRice

            It seems to me that Donovan’s involvement in regards to RG3, like many things with Donnie, is all about him.

            Obviously, McNabb feels some kinship to Griffin, and sees RG3 as a young version of himself. McNabb seems to think that playing the role of wise, advice-spewing sage is somehow appropriate, but I’m not sure anyone values McNabb’s advice or feedback; Remember his big post-game hug out and advice session with a disinterested Jay Cutler?

            McNabb was OK with the media, but he mishandled enough incidents in his career that any advice he provides has got to be taken with a grain of salt. RG3′s doing fine without ya, Don!

          • nicksaenz1

            You mean that rookie who came in for RG3 and played really well? In regards to your T.O. point, very valid, he did draw the attention. However, aside from Donnie, there wasn’t really anyone (that I can think of off the top of my head, at least) that was as commercial as RG3, besides Donnie himself. And even Donnie wasn’t the commercial success RG3 was so early. Westbrook was a quieter type and I don’t remember Dawkins being any sort of media whore. So when our stars were injured, they already weren’t in front of the cameras. In terms of how Andy managed the team’s injuries and appearances in the press room, I just think it’s a different beast and the situation doesn’t really translate to RG3 and his weekly appearances. If Bob can learn anything from D-Mac it’s to not choke.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    I like how Vicks carrying of the football he says is partially his fault. “I wasn’t paying attention” sounds like all your fault stupid..

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    “As crazy as it may sound, I never carried the football correctly.”

    Mike, you’ve said a lot of crazy things, but this is not one of them.

    • theycallmerob

      “I ain’t the same person I was when I bit that guy’s ear off”

      wait a sec– whoops, wrong Mike.

      • bentheimmigrant

        People downvoted this? Seriously?

        • Chris

          It’s Monday morning. People will downvote anything.

          That being said, bravo.

          • bentheimmigrant

            I can only imagine that some of the young’uns around here don’t get the reference.

          • nicksaenz1

            I just wish there was a way to incorporate the lisp in the typing.

          • theycallmerob

            I had to scream it out loud as I typed, for effect.

          • Andy124

            Lisp font!

          • G_WallyHunter

            If anyone doesn’t get that reference they’ve been living in a cave for the past 10 years lol

          • bentheimmigrant

            10 years? Time is passing you by, buddy. That fight was 15 years ago.

          • G_WallyHunter

            lol whatever besides the point you get it.. Anyone who doesn’t understand that reference shouldn’t be commenting on this board and should save themselves the trouble lol.. I’m probably one of the young’uns you speak of unless you’re talking teenagers, I’d be ashamed if I didn’t know it

          • G_WallyHunter

            Wait who’s Mike? And what? Who the hell would bite off an ear thats just sick? This is all new to me

          • bentheimmigrant

            Whether this was a joke or not, thank you… You provided a good laugh.

          • G_WallyHunter

            LOL

          • bentheimmigrant

            Crap. Make that 16.

        • theycallmerob

          Maybe token and dutch are still mad at me?

          Thankfully, my therapist feels it’s just a minor setback.

          • Dutch

            Why be mad at you?

      • Warhound

        FUNNY!!!
        As an aside: the ear biter is a much more intelligent, thoughtful person than he ever got credit for. I’ve heard him on the radio a bit in the last few years – funny, smart guy; and, his one man show is supposed to be great. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

      • Jason N.

        Very nice rob, I like it.

    • Myke Lowery

      “I have two secret weapons — my legs, my arms and my brain.” — Michael Vick.

  • Token

    Buddy, you have been out of the 50′s just once in your career when it comes to completion percentage. You arent doing anything right.

    Thats the problem. In Vicks head he is a hall of fame QB. He still has the mentality that he just has to play his game. Each off season he trys to say all the right things to the media but its always bull. He can not get out of this city fast enough.

    • cliff henny

      so true. the guys has been a fumling machine since VA Tech days, they have fumbling drills and he honestly thinks ‘hey, that’s not for me’? unreal. it’s tough to beleive that coaches like Reid and Reeves didnt walk over, hand him a stat sheet showing his crazy fumble numbers and say ‘ummm, mike, this drill is 90% for you, stop fumbling!’. maybe they did, but his ego wouldnt let it register?

      • southy

        sounds like maybe it was a drill for RB’s and he didn’t take it upon himself to volunteer his own participation.

        i really don’t know how much “learning to hold the ball” will help Vick’s turnover issues. a lot of those fumbles come in the pocket or with him scrambling but still showing the threat of a pass, in which case he’ll be holding it like a loaf of bread anyway.

      • Dutch

        Vick was at VA Tech one year. In that year he lead VA Tech to a National Championship Game. Do you think Beamer was going to hold Vick out of contest because of how haphazardly he carried the football?

        Do you really think a BSC Coach is willing to sit down a player with the effects that Mike Vick has on a defense to make a point?

        In Pennsylvania, Joe Paterno showed the world what College Coaches are willing to put up with and look the other way to maintain winning ways for their programs.

        The kid has been a stand out at every level and not many if any coaches were concerned with correcting his flaws. He admitted as much. This kid lead his College Team to a Championship Game, he Lead the Falcon to a NFC Championship game all on raw talent and ability. No film work, no studying just tightening his jock strap and buckling his helmet.

        • joe

          Um Ok great? Are you defending him? If he actually put in any effort maybe he’d be a great QB but you’re fine with him just being who he is and not trying to be better? Vick fanboys are funny.

        • Warhound

          Follow the $. The pile on of Joe was done to shift blame so the University would still have $ coming in.

        • JofreyRice

          You’re wrong, Dutch. He was at Virginia Tech for 2 years. RshFreshman & Sophomore years. It’s weird that you don’t know easily referenced facts about a guy you think so highly of.

          I agree with you that his accomplishments despite a commitment to his profession and craft as a QB are impressive, but I find that to be somewhat damning, also.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          People forget that Vick’s issues with reading defenses solely stems from the fact that they didn’t have him focus on any of that at all during his time in the A and college.

          The line has admitted they didn’t even work on pass defense like that – just run. AND Vick wasn’t good pre-snap because his feet were his hot reads.

          It’s funny hearing folk complain about Vick now b/c he’s actually a better QB. And his ability to handle has defense has improved greatly just from last year. He has his flaws – definitely – but acting like Foles is better is a joke.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Oh please, stop with the excuses! 10 year veteran of the NFL, if had any desire to become a top tier QB he would have taken the time and effort to learn. “Hey coach, you wanna teach me how to read a defense?” “No Michael, I don’t. I’ve got other things to do.”

            Improving greatly on nothing at all. Bravo. He’s marginally better, except now he doesn’t have the same athletic ability he likes to think he does. He can say he’s changed and he’s learning this and that in the off season, but when it comes down to its same old Michael. Pocket breaks down, tiny bit of a pressure in his face, and boom its off to the races. Except now, he can’t do what he used to be able to. He takes hits, he gets injured, he fumbles, and forces throws.

            Vick has flaws. Foles has flaws. Difference is, Foles is much younger and his flaws can be corrected. Vick’s flaws are imbedded in him, and a 33 year old QB is not about to change. 2010 Vick is about the closest you’re going to see to a complete package. It’s downhill from here, and I have zero interest in watching him do this crap for another year.

    • JofreyRice

      Yeah, I think that’s probably true. This is the first QB competition Vick’s really been in, since, probably, what, middle school? He took the job from Kolb, pretty much out of nowhere, based on his play during those 2 games of relief.

      I don’t think he’s handling the open competition well. I think he supposes he should have already blown Foles & the others out the water, but is struggling to get comfortable with the system. It seems Kelly wants very specific, disciplined play, and that’s got to be tough for Vick. His greatest successes as a pro have really come from freelancing and extending the play, and he wasn’t able to do that last year. That part of his game is much weaker than it used to be.

      He seems defensive and insecure every time the media talks to him, which is why he’s trying to tout his former accomplishments.

      • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

        It’ll be interesting to see how he handles the situation if he loses out to Foles or Barkley. Can he be humble in defeat? Part of me thinks no. I can’t see him embracing the backup role.

        • JofreyRice

          Nah. I seriously doubt it. I’m not sure how they view it, but it’s conceivable that if he can’t win the starting job, he might be cut. #1, it would be rather awkward to have the backup QB making 7 mil a year, while Foles or Barkley are making whatever they’re making (I’m guessing something like 1/20th of that). #2, I think it could be distracting. His toughness and former abilities make him almost a mythic figure in the locker room, and even as bashed and destroyed his body is, he’s still a better athlete & thrower than Barkley or Foles; I think some people in the locker room might prefer him for those reasons.

          • Richard Colton

            I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see him cut. I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s the week one starter. When’s the last time we could say that about the QB race heading into the training camp?

            The reasons you give for cutting him are all valid in terms of chemistry, the “big if” in your scenario is Barkley. If the coaches feel like Barkley is in no way ready in 2013, they would need to keep Vick around just in case Foles gets hurt. Otherwise the season could turn into a fiasco. And as much as I’d love to see Clowney in midnight green…I want some competitive football too.

        • Dutch

          He came to Philly from Federal Prison and served as a back up. I expect that Barkley will eventually make a push on Vick, and may be asked to relieve Vick due to injury by game 8 of this season.

          There’s nothing I’ve seen in Foles game last year that suggest he’s capable of beating out Vick for a Starting role on this or any other team.

          More important is there is absolutely no player in the NFL that foresees Foles taking away Vick’s starting position. The consequences would probably be that no Free Agent worth his salt would be willing to sign in Philly as long as Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman are locked into their positions.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Vick came to the only team in the NFL that would give him a shot, to sit and learn for a year or two, get back to speed, so that eventually he can start again in the NFL. He did not embrace the back up role to be a mentor to a younger QB, Philly was a stop gap until he found a starting job. He just happened to find it here in Philly.

            Your last paragraph is absolutely absurd.

          • Dutch

            You think there are players in the NFL that witnessed Nick Foles last year and believes he has any chance of beating out Mike Vick, you’re delusional.

            Andy Reid was able to attract players because of the reputation around the league, Kelly is working on a reputation and if it’s assumed he took Vick’s position to hand it to what they saw out of Foles in 2012 not many if any would option to signe with the Eagles under Kelly and Roseman in Free Agency.

            You can get the wrong perception of Vick on this board. In Philly and around the NFL Vick is still a very popular athlete who is admired by his peers and fans. The Eagles with Vick still draw sellouts on the road.

          • theycallmerob

            Please spare us this nonsense, you’ve made this point 1000 times already. We get it.

          • nicksaenz1

            And the only point made is his disdain for Foles and love of Vick.

          • Dutch

            You’re the guy that claimed the Scouting report on Foles didn’t point out the wrecked footwork, the inability to make quick decisions, and inaccuracy would drive Foles to throw as he did at Arizona a large amount of interceptions?

            That’s not disdain for Foles but a common analysis of Foles and what’s projected to be what he shows in the NFL, and it was highly accurate. That’s not love of Vick, I believe Barkley is going to eventually be the Quarterback before the season’s over.

            What points I make seem to fly right over your head.

            Point 1. of those points is that Nick Foles is not now a viable NFL Starting Quarterback and he’s shown nothing in the way of being ready when given the chance in 2012.

            Most of all Kelly isn’t convinced after seeing tapes of his play in 2012

            The Eagles are doing with Foles what they did with Kolb and that’s waiting on a sucker trade to offload Foles.

          • nicksaenz1

            The situation between Foles and Kolb aren’t even comparable. Moreover, being partially wrong on the scouting reports (they vary, as I pointed out and proved, but you only read ones that work for you) doesn’t actually make you right concerning the whole picture. That said, you neglect every other piece of evidence that works in Foles’ favor (like stats), especially in comparison to Vick, so it’s senseless to engage with you. And if Kelly wasn’t convinced he can be the guy, that deal with KC would have been done and we wouldn’t be having this convo. However, Kelly appears to be a smart enough guy to give himself as many options as possible at the most important position.

          • MAC

            So Kelly must also not have seen enough from Vick’s tape to know he is the better option than Foles since he is having a competition for the starting job. Right?
            I am guessing Kelly didn’t look at Vick’s tape for 2011 and 2012 and conclude that 30 TD’s and 31 total turnovers in 23 games over last 2 years at QB is good enough to hand him the job. I am sure he saw that he would bring back Vick if he took a significant pay cut and would still have to win the job in camp. It’s not exactly a ringing endorsment for Vick now or Foles is it?

          • nicksaenz1

            I’m the guy that showed multiple scouting reports, and while one worked against me, the other worked in my favor. At least I don’t pick and choose stats. And this is the first of you mentioning you believe Barkley will now be the successor. Now you’re hedging? And Foles’ isn’t a viable qb based on 2012, neither is Vick, based on 2012. If the Eagles were going to trade Foles, the time passed. Sorry.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            It’s hilarious because all your points against Foles means that Vick isn’t even good enough to win the job outright from this guy, which must speak volumes about how much the Eagles think about him.

          • MAC

            This point has been made to him a million times and not once has he acknowledged it. It’s actually impressive he manages to to this and I actually think he doesn’t see the correlation between his argument and how it would be an indictment on Vick then that he is not named the starter out right.

          • cliff henny

            or, he just doesnt believe there is a qb competition, it’s just lip service to build up value in foles. the most value foles ever had was when reid/kc were qb shopping. but sure he’ll argue that point too.

          • Dutch

            You are easily spared by not responding if you are caught in any distress. You always, as you are doing now jump yourself in the middle of discussions. I’ve been notice you running to the aid of a few guys on this forum when nobody involved you per se’ in a running dialogue. Why? If you find my post distressing do you bother to respond in any way other than seeking my attention?

          • theycallmerob

            Running to the aid?? Rather, I’m putting my education to use; anyone with a basic understanding of logic would see the fallacies in your argument. I guess if anything, you can call me the “non sequitur police.” I’d be doing humanity an injustice otherwise

          • nicksaenz1

            Don’t use those big words. We already know he doesn’t know how to use google to look them up.

          • Dutch

            You have to come a little better than “Don’t use big Words”……. are you stick on the word Sequitur?

          • nicksaenz1

            if youre going to try to reverse the insult, at least spell a basic word correctly. its “stuck”

          • Dutch

            Ahhhhh, that grandeur feeling of Self importance and doing humanity a favor?

            You could always ignore my post if you find them distressful.

            Why don’t you if not for my attention?

          • theycallmerob

            I’d imagine the same reason you’ve spent all day on this site, quixotically defending your bastion of bullshtt by yourself (where you at, philly.com?) from the hordes of “fake fans” who dare dispute you with reason and facts. Hell, why do we all sit in traffic to look at accidents? Why do monkeys fling poo? What happens after death?

          • JofreyRice

            You don’t live in Philly, and you’re not employed by the league, right? I’d just like to establish these two facts, and help you understand their implications.

          • Dutch

            Is your opinion. and wild speculations in a position of authority because you may live in Phila?

            I don’t see me living or not living in Philly as being relevant it’s not to the Eagles and frankly has no place in this discussion.

            None if that has a point on the matter that the opinion you have of Vick is not shared by the Vast Majority of Eagles Fans in Phila and around the NFL .

          • MAC

            You not living in Philly is relevant to this conversation bc you claim in many of your posts that your views on Vick being the starter are the majority of Eagles fans views. Your claims that the fans won’t be ok with Vick being a back up are simply not true. Joefrey Rice brings up you not being in Philly bc you clearly have no idea what the pulse or views of the fans in Philly are bc your not there to see. Your location is pertinent when you keep claiming to represent the fan base and there views. How can you know there views and speak for them if your not there to see it or hear it?

          • theycallmerob

            Circular argument, slippery slope, bifurcation…my gosh, I believe we may even be creating entirely new fallacies!

          • JofreyRice

            I think it’s possible. This is like watching Steve Jobs mess around in the lab. GENIUS AT WORK!

          • JofreyRice

            You know, in fairness to Dutch, I forgot that he’s capable of mind-melding with the thousands of Phila fans all over the Phila valley, and doesn’t need to be anywhere near them, to know exactly what they’re thinking.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            The Jedi of douchebags.

          • Dutch

            You getting both juvenile and personal based on competing preferences and opinions. “Douchebag”

            Maybe you aren’t the class of citizen I gave you credit for being after all.

          • Dutch

            often it’s not necessary to mingle not being in Phila. It’s the 21th century and technological innovations has made it easy to mingle with a circle of friends or those with a common interest no matter where in the world they may be located.

          • JofreyRice

            You’re right. In the “21th” century, you can come to an Eagles blog, and tell all the people that post there that they are just soccer fans and don’t understand the game.

          • Dutch

            The claim I made is validated by a poll and survey run over on Philly.com. Where is your evidence to suggest otherwise. The 8 of you that converge in here?

          • MAC

            You know you only provided a link to Philly.com. Not the fake poll you supposedly saw on there website?
            Also why don’t you dig up the poll you you saw that the Eagles players took that showed they would have a problem in the locker room if Vick doesn’t win the starting job.
            While your at it, get the poll you must have of other NFL players stating that if the Eagles choose to start Foles this year they would boycott Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman along with this organization once they became free agents. LOL

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            When you claim to have your finger on the pulse of Philly, yet you don’t even live there, I believe it has a place in this discussion.

            I’d love to know where this vast majority is you speak of. Because I frequent a lot of Eagles sites, forums, discussions, and the majority were furious when Vick was brought back, and the majority cannot wait until his time in Philly is over.

          • JofreyRice

            I know everyone says don’t feed the trolls, but I just can’t resist. The guy’s arguments are just too entertaining to ignore.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            They’re like swiss cheese.. so full of holes.

          • theycallmerob

            I feel like a guilty junkie.

          • JofreyRice

            The best part is that he’s completely unfazed by cold hard facts. Just keeps right on chugging. He composes horribly unsound arguments in a way that’s really extraordinary.

          • theycallmerob

            I’ve seen this before. Had an uncle once….went by Bob. Bob was the kinda guy unfazed by science, and would create such heart-stoppers as the “cream cheese and hot dog burrito”. He also viewed mayonnaise as a daily vitamin, of which he never missed a dose. Bob ran right through every wall that we, and his doctors, put up out of love and sympathy. All the reason in the world was no match for Bob’s perseverations.

            One hot and sticky August day, it finally happened. Sue had just graduated HS, first in the family, and we all went out to Golden Corral to celebrate.

            As they say: rock beats scissor, paper beats rock…and, on that fateful Saturday, ribeye beat Bob.

          • MAC

            That is the part that astonishes me. He literally blocks them from his brain I think. Even if you have a reference to a fact he simply replies to every other part of your post. It’s “mind bottling”! LOL

          • Dutch

            You’re one of the individuals who has the most negative assumptions on participants who may frequent this site. Why aren’t you more qualified as a troll than anyone else you may try to label with that distinction?

            The argument is basic and direct, your problem with it is that it disputes your narrative that Foles is a credible entry to start in the NFL. You have to ignore a great deal of truth to make that claim. Foles must look like somebody else on television.

          • theycallmerob

            Sir, your argument is anything but basic and direct. Good lord, how that escapes you is beyond all comprehension.

          • MAC

            Have you read one response he has ever given on Foles? He always sayshe is not high on Foles and thinks most likely Foles is not the answer. He just disputes that there is difinitive proof Foles is not capable after 6 games and he feels as many do that Vick is not the answer. That is not an endorsment of Foles. But hey read it and interpret it however you want I guess. WOW

          • Dutch

            Get off the web and actually rub elbows with Eagles fans. You can’t make an assumption by the opinions on the web. I think Philly.com ran a survey and overwhelmingly Vick has the hearts and mind of Eagles fans with Barkly running a distant second.

            I’m not creating an illusion of a love for Vick among Eagles Fans. The exception is the disdain shown here for Vick. Eagles Fans for the most part admire Vick. It’s a few people that come here and express opinions. This in no way represent the majority Fan opinion on Mike Vick….. there are less than 8 of you spouting off about what Vick isn’t in here and you have to drum up facts to try and make a case against Vick while ignoring the very same flaws that exist in Foles, where it concerns decision making, accuracy and turnovers.

          • JofreyRice

            Wait, I thought this was the “21th century”, and you don’t have to physically be in Phila to understand what Eagles fans are thinking. I’m confused. Are you rubbing digital elbows with Phila fans on other blog sites, or rubbing real elbows with people while you ride around on the train, eating sandwiches and taking the pulse of the city? Are you using AIM or Prodigy? What is your technology?

          • theycallmerob

            So, where are all these masses of people then to support your opinion? You can’t make the case that 8 is a small number, since 1 is far less.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Opinions and wild speculation.

            Pot, meet kettle.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Kelly isn’t going to give Vick squat because of his reputation in the league. He had a terrible year and is on the decline. Why the hell would Chip give a damn about selling out road games? Although I can see why it would be fun to watch Vick come to town. Run around like a mad man getting himself killed, fumbling and throwing picks. That would be fun to watch your home team play.

            We get it. You don’t like Foles.

          • Dutch

            The only decision Kelly made to this point was to not leave his job security in the hands of Nick Foles.

            You can make all kinds of arguments you want, but the fact is given the chance to have Foles as his Quarterback Chip Kelly summoned Mike Vick. Now you have this mythical open competition.

            Money talks. One guy here says something contrary to Money being the ultimate factor in America at anything and across all industries. That’s just being in denial.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Foles didn’t do enough to be handed the job. But guess what?Neither did Vick. he was brought him back at a fraction of his price, so to your “money talks” point you can tell how much faith the Eagles have in Vick. Cutting a guys salary by $12 million dollars sure does talk, and is a pretty huge vote of non-confidence for Vick.

          • Dutch

            $10 Million is a hell of a fraction, and $3.5 is a nice bonus to take you through spring training. The Cardinals are only paying Carson Palmer $4 Million Total this year. The Eagles could have signed Palmer and had Foles for a little over the bonus money paid Vick.

            2013 is an Option year and always has been an option year. Both the Eagles and Vick had to agree on the option or that clause in that $100 Million Contract would have rendered that contract unenforceable.

            This still comes down to the Eagles could have went in another direction with Alex Smith or Carson Palmer and any other available QB and come away cheaper than giving Vick $3.5 Million in March.

            Vick’s signing bonus would have just about covered Palmer, and Foles 2013 salary. So what you saying is absolute Bunk. To believe it’s not about the money is just not credible in America.

          • cliff henny

            you are ignoring the cost of draft picks to acquire a.smith, which was huge(so far at least Ertz), and palmer, which was lesser (switched 1sts and cond ’14). also, Vick would have carried 7m in dead money this year on top of those salaries. that’s the major benefit to signing vick, it was only money, which we had.

          • JofreyRice

            Do yourself a favor and look into this before you embarrass yourself further. Vick signed a contract that was set to pay him 15.5 million this year. There was a lot of speculation that he would be cut, outright because of that ridiculous number–some folks even penciled him in as a Jet, to reunite with Marty Mornhenwig.

            The Eagles held onto him past the February deadline, which guaranteed him the 3 mil. They also forced him to take a huge paycut, and told him it was an open competition, and signed him to a “3 year deal” that can be voided next March. So far, it looks like they were honest when they said the competiton was open. There are no reports of Vick distinguishing himself as any kind of favorite in the early going, and it doesn’t seem as if he’s getting any kind of preference.

            If they had gone after Alex Smith or Carson Palmer, in addition to the money, they would have had to give up draft picks. I agree that they weren’t sold on Foles, so bringing Vick back to compete made sense to them for the relatively cheap price.

            If Vick wins the competition, they pay basically 7-8 million for a starting QB (only gets 10 million if he captains them to a Superbowl), and if he loses, I’d guess he gets cut, and they’re only out the 3 million bucks. They paid horrible Nnamdi 4 million dollars to walk away. With the cap situation, I don’t think it would be much of a problem to release Vick, either.

          • pkatz

            But the point of an open competition at the new season is to see who is the better QB *at that time*. Your statement assumes that both Vick and Foles are both the same players they were in the past.

            A lot of these guys put in tons of work in the off season and just because Foles wasn’t ready last year/Vick was the better player does not mean that is still the case this year.

          • Dutch

            Why would I not assume Foles is the same Quarterback, he’s what he was at Arizona. He’s not doing much beyond what he showed himself to be at Arizona and that was/is a quarterback that desperately needs to develop over time.

            Foles is not now and because of Andy Reid’s experiment, may never be a Starting Quarterback in the NFL.

            To say he showed promise last year is absurd and wishful thinking at best.

            Foles does well until the ball is actually hiked and he has to read defenses, make quick decision and execute.

            He’s a clumsy Quarterback who throws flutter balls with a looping whine up. He can’t hit the long ball or provide accuracy on intermediate and short routes and zero ability to get out of the way of NFL rushers. That’s what he showed himself to be at Arizona.

          • pkatz

            I’m sorry, but was Vick was an expert at reading defenses and making quick decisions?

            I think we may have been watching different teams these past few years.

          • Dutch

            they weren’t the only team, they were the team that could absorb any backlash at the gate and it turned out to be a great strategy to get Vick back settled into the league because the Eagles lost nothing in revenue from signing him.

            Kevin Kolb was supposed to be the current Eagles Quarterback and turned out to be an absolute bust. Foles won’t be the only disappointment built up by the Philly media who panics in the pocket in the heat of battle.

            Vick seemed mighty grateful for the chance to be a backup and appreciated that the Eagles took a chance on him then and now. So I think you’re way off base in assuming he hadn’t embrace his chances here at any time.

            Then as now, Vick’s decision to stay is more to do with his Wife and then a loyalty he feels for the Eagles. I don’t think Vick never expected/intended to sign another $100 Million Contract, things just turned out that way.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            News flash for you Dutch, every move Michael Vick makes for the remainder of his career with be purely financial, and will not be good will. This came out of prison with insurmountable debt, Reports are that around this time last year Vick was close to being out of debt, so any money he makes now till the end of his football career will be to support his family after football is over for him. He’s signed 2 100 million dollar contracts and has next to nothing to show for it, so the idea of him leaving money on the table to be a nice guy or to say thanks is absurd.

            The Eagles are the best he could do after last season, and playing for Chip his last attempt to jump start his career and show that he can still start in the NFL. He will not lay down and embrace the mentor role.

          • Dutch

            I’m not that into Vick to determine his financial well being and frankly that matters little to me and almost not at all. Somehow you seem to be enthused about his “Not having next to nothing to show for it” But it is however fascinating this kid is has signed two $100 Million Dollar Contracts. And on his way out of town he’s sidetracked for $10 Million with a $3.5 Million Signing Bonus. You can make believe that’s not significant or next to nothing but I can assure you in America that’s not chump cheeze.

            I’ve never counted another man’s beans and take no joy in any man having a perceived difficult time financially.

            Last chance is ridiculous. There are any number of teams who would take Vick and any number of 30 something QBs in the league finding starting positions.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Wow, you’ve once again you’re wrong and have completely missed the point, while attempting to turn something personal because you can’t have a civil debate.

            Thanks for keeping me entertained on a Monday though Dutch, you are hilarious without even knowing it. Thanks for being the laughing stock of Birds 24/7, and continue to keep up the good work.

          • MAC

            You make some seriously outlandish claims. LOL

            You think that the fact Vick is not chossen as a starter over Foles would deter free agents who would be offered millions of dollars from signing in Philly? Really?

            You also have claimed several times that Philly fan base wouldn’t put up with a bad season with Foles as the starter over Vick. Really? Hate to break it to you, but we are in a rebuilding mode. Maybe not a clean house rebuild, but a rebuild on the fly at least. Look at our defense especially the secondary. This shows any reasonable fan that we are still a few years away from being a legit contender.
            So to claim Eagle fans wouldn’t deal with Foles lead team during a rebuild is just wrong and stupid. Even if it cost some sell outs this year Lurie is looking at long term and we need to figure out the QB situation. Kelly unlike you clearly does not think he knows Foles can’t play. If he did know that then why even have a competition or why not trade Foles when Reid asked about him. (if this is true) No QB is a definite miss after 6 starts in the NFL period. Especially considering circumstances of injuries along the line and skill position.
            Stop speaking for Eagles fans as if you know what the fan base will and will not put up with. Stop speaking for NFL free agents as if you know that Vick being cut or being 2nd string QB would influence there decisions on there career. They are just the most ridiculous statements and claims period. It’s honestly embarrassing some of your claims and your skewing of info to make terrible points.

          • cliff henny

            god forbid the eagles cut vick, the icecaps will melt, the n/s poles will reverse polarity, earth will shift it’s axis…LOCUSTS!

          • nicksaenz1

            “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!”

          • Dutch

            If that means the eagles embarking on a successive losing campaign spanning several seasons, you are right.

            You young guys were not eagles fans when we were losing all those years. Eagles fans who have been there a long time and remember when are not accepting losing again. The rule in Philly over the last decade plus is that the Eagles are in the race for the division every year.

            There is no amount of rebuilding that can diminish the expectation of playoffs in Philly, and Chip Kelly just starting is not an acceptable reason to expect much less this year.

          • JofreyRice

            In all honesty, he’ll just come up with some baloney theory about why it happened. Like Vick & Kelly couldn’t get along, because Vick was running too fast and outpacing the blocking, or that Nick Foles is being propped up by management so they can get the #1 pick and take Bridgewater, or some other unprovable conspiracy theory. Have you read his thoughts on how Castillo wasn’t really the defensive coordinator?

          • cliff henny

            no, never had priviledge to see that dillusional rant. must be quality, Foles stuff sure is. funny thing is, i’m not even all that high on Foles, i agree with some percentage of what he says about Foles. if i had to pick best outcome, be vick healthy for ’13, bridgewater or Marioti in ’14.

          • JofreyRice

            I hear you. I’m really no advocate for Foles, but I don’t think you can say he showed nothing as a starter, and certainly, nothing definitive can be said yet. I’m pretty down on Vick, though, too. I just don’t see him putting it together. I think the time for him to develop his craft has passed.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Exactly. I don’t see him as a saviour of this franchise, but to judge so definitively on 6 games as a rookie is absurd. Thankfully no talent evaluator in the NFL thinks like that.

            I think he did enough to prove at the very least he is serviceable, and isn’t a complete lost cause. He did some good things as a rookie.

          • cliff henny

            exactly. think Dutch wants to draw and quarter foles, remove teeth and finger tips and dump his body in San Andreas Fault

          • Dutch

            I don’t care what kind of mode the Eagles are in, Eagles fans have not and will not buy into having to lose with Foles in the guise of developing. I can’t believe you guys are in Philly, nobody in Philly is supporting any of those professional teams if they are losing.

            Phila Fans are typical front running fans. So don’t come on here talking nonsense about Eagles Fans paying $150 per seat for a losing effort. That’s not happening in Phila. Ask the Phillies.

            We not putting up with losing under any circumstance. Practice and training came if for development. Not Games during the regular season. If we wanted to see a developing quarterback we would have accepted the dead end that was sure to be the Eagle under Kevin Kolb.

            Bottom line is Andy brought in career back up Quarterback and gave us nothing to depend on and he’s labeled a Quarterback Guru and Nick Foles when put under the gun by Andy showed nothing that the disasters Andy Reid drafted in previous years had not shown Eagles fans.

      • Andy124

        I was actually thinking about this recently. Has Vick ever had to with a job in practice?
        He was given the job in Atlanta over Schaub based on draft status, even though Schaub has since proven to be a far superior quarterback. It makes one wonder who really performed better in those Falcon practices.
        He won the job over Kolb on the field, not in practice. If Vick was performing better in practice, you have to beleive he’d have started that Green Bay game, not come in in relief.
        Did he have any competition he had to beat out at VT? I really have no idea.
        This could literally be the first time he ever had to compete for a starting position. And when you look back at his NFL career, he may have never won a starting position had he actually had to earn it in practice.

        • JofreyRice

          I don’t think so. He started for Va Tech after being promised to be redshirted by Frank Beamer to develop. He was pretty highly recruited, I think the job was his from the moment he stepped onto the campus at Blacksburg; and for good reason. As a Hokie, the guy made Johnny Maziel look like Trent Dilfer.

          • Andy124

            I’ve got no problem agreeing that Vick was a Great college quarterback. I’d say your last sentence is a bit of hyperbole though. :)

          • JofreyRice

            Fair enough. In my opinion, he was one of the most amazing college QB’s I’ve ever seen play. Manziel has a dose of it, but doesn’t have nearly the arm. I mean, Vick, as a Hokie, was out of his mind; I haven’t seen anyone like him since. Manziel has the wiggle, and RG3 had the straight line speed, but Vick had both in the same package, and a better arm than either.

          • Dutch

            In College he was a one year mercenary. Beamer rode Vick to the Title Game, about mid October the thing Beamer saw, the NFL did and came knocking.

        • Dutch

          You’re comparing Schaub to a 4 time pro bowler and recent comeback player of the year. What’s Schaub ever won in the NFL to be considered superior? Has Schaub ever lead his team to the AFC Title Game?

          In Philly Vick was better than Kolb in Practice, Andy Reid stuck to his guns, it was Green Bay that paved a path out of misery with Kolb and forced Vick into a Starting role over Kolb.

          .

          • nicksaenz1

            Schaub is a better QB. Check stats.

          • Dutch

            The one stat I check doesn’t list Schaub because he never achieved that level in the NFL.

          • nicksaenz1

            they’re both in the category of not winning a ring, schaub just has better stats…

          • theycallmerob

            hey! so is Foles! That means he must be as good as Schaub and Vick. Heck, he’s pry even better than Cutler and Stafford already.

          • Andy124

            Go eat somewhere else, troll.

          • Dutch

            For me to be considered a troll you would have to assume my post are deliberately provocative and they have been nothing but substantiated truth on Foles and any potential he has at a Starter. Some of you who have a weak eye for NFL Talent disagree. That’s reasonable, but it’s how you all disagree that defines you as trolls.

            You who I often see jump on Vick supports here are the epitome of a Troll in your disparaging responses.

          • nicksaenz1

            theres nothing substantiated.

      • Dutch

        His ability to innovate hasn’t been lost. Vick is an instinctive player. Vick last year and the year before was attempting to be what Andy Reid desired instead of Reid taking advantage of Vick’s unique skill set. Andy Reid was trying for the extreme make over.

        What’s amazing now is that Andy Reid is installing a pistol offense in KC with Alex Smith, since that offense is the scheme proven to bring out the best and shown itself to be a benefit for Alex Smith.

        I think Vick’s showing a lot of resolve and restrain answering stupid questions presented by the local media in Philly over and over. He’s managed to contain himself from lashing out at questions intended to inspire a negative reaction. If you believe yourself to be a starter in this league it’s expected you have a mindset to go along with those responsibilities.

        Who want’s a QB that lacks confidence in their abilities leading their team into battle.

        The risk Kelly takes in assigning someone other than Vick to the position is losing the Veterans in that locker room and a large portion of the Eagles Fan Base who believe Vick is the only opportunity to win.

        • nicksaenz1

          It’s fair to point out that the risk you mention is mitigated by the open competition. If it’s a fairly evaluated competition and the best man wins, a professional will respect it.

          • Dutch

            Logical post, however the Veterans and Eagles Fans saw first hand Foles under pressure last year. It’s safe to assume not a man in that locker room believes Foles outside of T Shirts and Shorts is an effective QB in the NFL to go into battle with.

            The jury is out on Barkley. Barkley has a chance to impress the locker room, Foles had his chance and failed.

          • nicksaenz1

            It’s not safe to assume that at all. Can you provide anything to even back up that assertion? Foles put up stats that were comparable to or better than Vick. Having only 6 games under his, the only safe assumption is that the jury is still out on Foles, too.

          • Dutch

            The empty Linc when Vick was concussed and Foles was starting.

          • nicksaenz1

            3-6 going when Vick went down will certainly make people realize the season was lost. Good try.

          • Dutch

            If it wasn’t dead at 3 and 6 it was following Foles 1 and 5 debacle.

          • Dutch

            Foles put up stats in College also, and nothing good when it comes to wins and losses. He was a 500 career QB. It’s not expected he going to do any better than what you saw in 2012, his scouting report projected this.

            He showed nothing in the way of being ready to lead a NFL team expected to contend in their division. He was no better than the what not rookies in Cleveland and Jacksonville last year. That’s not good enough for Eagle Fans, and it’s not going over well with Eagle Fans. That’s not assumption that’s fact.

          • nicksaenz1

            “He showed nothing in the way of being ready to lead a NFL team expected to contend in their division. He was no better than the what not rookies in Cleveland and Jacksonville last year.” Neither did Vick. So why watch an old guy with no upside over a young guy with plenty of upside?

          • Dutch

            The fans at the Linc don’t believe Foles will progress to become a significant attraction in Phila as Eagles Starting Quarterback. Strictly based on the results and game footage from 2012.

            Foles simply isn’t worth the price of admission. It’s nothing personal.

          • nicksaenz1

            so now youre basing an assertion of fans’ collective opinion off of results and footage, the likes of which speak to nothing regarding fans’ opinions. another baseless argument

          • JofreyRice

            ha ha! “It’s safe to assume not a man in that locker room believes Foles outside of T Shirts and Shorts is an effective QB in the NFL to go into battle with.”. Does Chip Kelly ever go into that locker room?

            You’re overreaching here, by about a football field. I allow that some may prefer Vick, but there is almost no chance that the entire locker room is ready to mutiny if Foles wins the competition; it’s absurd for you to make this assumption.

          • Dutch

            There aren’t many of any that believes Foles has any shot of winning an open Competition with Vick at Quarterback.

            That’s forum chatter and nothing more. If you asked 100 people on the Broad Street Subway 65% would not believe Foles is a credible candidate to take Vick’s job as Starter of the Phila Eagles.

            More people in Phila believe Barkley has a better chance than Foles of pushing Vick out of Phila. And Barkley hasn’t played one game in the NFL.

            Eagles fans have no interest at seeing Foles under center in Phila ever again. We’ve seen enough and think he’s had a fair chance.

            Chip Kelly had a chance to send Foles a message of confidence, but he chose to sign the Vick option year for $10 Million. That said Kelly was not going to put the fate of his professional career in the hands of Nick Foles. Kelly only came to Philly because Vick was here, he could have had his pick of jobs to take. He passed on those who didn’t have a credible QB to work with.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Ah yes, a fair chance is definitely a rookie 3rd round QB coming in mid season, with no training camp or meaningful practice reps with the 1s and starting behind a make shift offensive line.

            Extremely fair. The definition of fairness, some might say.

          • JofreyRice

            Everybody in Phila knows, down to a man, that Foles will never get better. Look at Andrew Luck’s season and look at the career of Tom Brady, he was picked 3 round later than Foles! Foles should already be that much better. Go on I-95 and scream questions about Nick Foles to passing motorists. A lot of people will ignore you, and not even roll the windows down, speeding by so fast that which can not hear. other folks might scream out “What?”, pretending they’ve never heard of the Guy. Some Phila’s might even curse at you, because they were so disgusted by the show that which Foles has put on. If Chip Kelly chooses on Foles to start the season whom comes, most players in the NFL will know him to be a fool.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            *slow clap*

          • Dutch

            Brady and Luck were winners in College at stellar Programs. Neither came into the NFL with pedestrian records, both played in and won Big Games from their personal efforts. That is not Foles story.

          • theycallmerob

            Argument from Personal Incredulity, False Continuum, The Moving Goalpost…..boy, if I got my old textbook out, I could probably play a drinking game.

          • Dutch

            What’s more fair than game activity with the guys who through trial and error showed enough to make the team and dress for the game?

            Should we now have some other criteria? And if so what?

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Well let’s see, how about the same chance Vick got? Training camp taking reps as starter? Games played with an actual offensive line, and his skill players available?

          • Dutch

            Foles had the same exact advantage that Vick had before he became Starter. The Difference was that when Vick got into the Game it was hard for the decision makers to sit him down. When Foles got into the game it was not a difficult decision to sit him down and now pass over him for Barkley.

            What could be any more fair?

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Um…so you missed that month of training camp and preseason games he played when Vick was injured?

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Oh right! I completely forgot. 12 preseason snaps for Vick with 2 game ending injuries.

            Thanks for giving us another reason why Vick should be gone.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Or a reason showing how Foles had time ot learn and practice and still couldn’t win the starting job from supposedly such an awful QB.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Yes, the awful10 year veteran with 2 100 million dollar contracts beat out a rookie 3rd QB with 1 month of camp. Now Vick can’twin a job outright against this kid? Hmm.. something makes me think the team doesn’t haveas much confidence in him as you do.

          • JofreyRice

            First of all, ignoring the fact that what you’re saying is pure speculation, even if it were true, you’re committing a fallacy called “Appeal to the Crowd” or Argumentum Ad Populum; Meaning that because a bunch of people riding the subway believe it to be true, it is in fact true.

            More than a month into things, with the reps evenly split, I don’t even think the guaranteed money is an issue. Vick will win the job based on his ability to execute Chip Kelly’s system. I don’t think Kelly is interviewing people on the orange line for personnel tips. He’s going to put the QB on the field that gives the team the best shot to win games, and as of right now, I don’t think that person has been established.

            Also, you’re just flat out incorrect about the Foles vote of confidence/Vick option year thing. Vick was owed 15 million dollars, and got renegotiated down to 3.5 million guaranteed–the rest comes when/if Vick plays all the games. He was under contract already. If he felt he could have gotten better money on the open market, and signed as a starter, I’m quite sure he would have left. I think your perception of Vick is outdated. He’s not who he was.

          • nicksaenz1

            You can’t mention the Orange Line. That’s what it’s called and he has no idea since he doesn’t live in Philly, despite making these bold claims of what Philadelphians think.

          • Dutch

            Oh stop the rag tag subway has been the Orange line better than 30 years, I would say since renovations to the 15th and JFK underground hub. Every other week I’m in the area of Philly. I ride the Yellow line from the Airport to Penn Station and the Reading Terminal, always my first stop in town to eat. The 4th Street Delicatessen is still a favorite stop.

            Figuring me out and my interest shouldn’t be a part of the debate.

          • Dutch

            You don’t see your reply as being full of speculation? Especially the part about not thinking the guaranteed money is an issue? The Eagles could have kept $3.5 Million and allowed Vick to walk away. That’s why it’s called an option.

            Vick wasn’t forced to sign the 2013 option he stayed in Phila because his wife is from Philly and he feels some loyalty for the chance the Eagles took on him. The Eagles could have signed Palmer for 2013 at $5 Million total and kept Trent Edwards for cheaper than Vick salary total for 2013.

          • MAC

            STOP SPEAKING FOR EAGLE FANS!!

            You simply do not have an accurate assesmemt of what many of us feel. Yet you keep claiming that you do. Take a look at the responses to your posts and your likes vs dislikes. There is no one on here with more people that disagree with them on each post than you. If nothing else that should tell you that your views are not shared by the majority of fans.

          • Dutch

            I know a lot about Eagles Fans you don’t and feel my financial investment in tickets and communication with other fans give me a pretty accurate heart beat on the opinions on Eagles Fans.

            And that Opinion overwhelmingly is that Foles is not their choice and losing is not an option.

            You think the likes and dislikes on my post is relevant to truth? There is a silent majority you haven’t given thought to in here.

            You guys have to lie and make up tales to get your point across on your dislike for Vick.

            If you have to lie maybe what you’re defending isn’t really worth defending.

            It’s just an outright lie to say Foles showed potential to be an NFL Starter. Andy Reid in 14 years has only drafted One NFL Starting QB of all the QBs he’s drafted as HC of the Eagles. Foles is no different than the succession of QBs Andy Reid drafted before him. Not yet ready….

          • theycallmerob

            The majority of us believe what you’re saying is false, MAC. I know. I just do.

          • MAC

            HUh? Your agreeing with Dutch?

          • theycallmerob

            Hahaha, no sorry, didn’t have on the sarcasm font; I was “speaking for all philadelphians”, since we on this site are mere soccer fans ;)

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Well that and Ron Riveria wasn’t fired. Believe me he would have been in Carolina coaching the one person that prevented him from having a National Championship title.

            I’m an Eagles fan – but I woulda watched ALL of Carolina’s games to see what he could do with Cam Newton. That woulda been sweet.

            However – what Kelly could do with Vick is pretty tempting as well.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            I think you’re overselling this need to impress the locker room. Fact is there are few veterans left, most of whom are sick and tired of losing, or are on thin ice themselves. The guys will back the guy who puts them in the best position to win, and that’s also the guy Chip is going to start.

            Getting picky about who you want to start is a luxury you lose after a 4-12 season.

          • Dutch

            Not actually, 2011 and 2012 seasons were lost because of the play of the Eagles Defense. How many of the game in 2011 did the Eagles lead by Vick go into the 4th Quarter with leads that the defense could not hold?

            That is/was the problem and cost the Eagles playoff positions. Not the play of Mike Vick.

            In 2012 Foles had every opportunity to take the doubt away about his abilities and did nothing to ease the Eagles Fan Base concerns. Again, the idea that Foles is a credible replacement for Vick only exist here on this forum. Overwhelmingly in the NFL and in Phila that’s not the case.

            Foles in the minds of the vast majority of Eagles fans is not the guy to replace Vick. and those records from 2011 and 2012 are laid at the feet of the Eagles Defense.

            Kelly’s first task was dismantling the Eagles Defense and for good reason.

          • nicksaenz1

            Wait, you mean the defense that gave away more points per game while Foles was the QB than during Vick’s starts?

          • Dutch

            Think we could have tried Foles and Vick at Cornerback?

            you play with the hand you’re dealt. If you have any talent to be in that position, it’s going to show. with foles nothing much but panic showed.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            But who got more wins.

          • Andy124

            Please dispense with the wins argument. You’re better than that. Aside from all of the HOFers with horrible records as rookies that have been pointed out to you that I know you remember, you’re basically saying you’d take all of the following over Drew Brees, or better yet, Cam Newton. And we know that’s not true.

            RG3
            Eli Manning
            Tony Romo
            Christian Ponder
            Jay Cutler
            Matt Ryan
            Russell Wilson
            Sam Bradford
            Joe Flacco
            Andy Dalton
            Ben Roethlisberger
            Matt Schaub
            Andrew Luck

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            No I’m not saying any of that. They both had crapppy lines and defense to deal with. One was able to make more lemonade out of lemons than the other. Foles also faced WORSE defenses than Vick and came up with less than Vick did. That’s my point.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            If you’re judging the team based on the 2012 season, everyone should be cut. Literally 2 players on the entire team “eased the Phildadelphia Fan Base concerns”, Cox and Demeco. That’s it.

            I’m actually shocked that it’s so impossible for you to grasp the fact that a 23 year old Foles can actually improve from his rookie season, but I guess it’s more shocking that you believe Mick Vick isn’t getting worst.

          • Dutch

            He’s not improving no matter what his age. He doesn’t have much to improve on to be considered a viable NFL Starter.

            Any argument to the contrary is noise and driven by things other than an eye for QB talent in the NFL.

            This kid showed panic and nothing more in that pocket. That may not be his fault but the fault of those who threw him in games so ill prepared. Trent Edward should have went into those games.

          • nicksaenz1

            And he walked into that situation and put up a better completion % than Vick and the most rookie passing y/g ever. Doesn’t sound so damning and surely doesn’t reflect panic. Sure he made mistakes, but you can live with a few out of a rookie, not a 10yr vet who was a #1 overall pick.

          • Dutch

            That completion percentage didn’t move the team or put points on the board. And Foles wasn’t even blitzed and could not move the team or score. Foles just gives the Eagles no shot at winning, Vick with his mistakes still puts you in every game and if necessary he’s capable of squeaking out come from behind wins.

          • MAC

            In 2011 Vick played in 13 games threw 18 TD’s and had 14 INT’s and 4 lost fumbles totaling 18 turnovers. So your claim is that Vick was basically screwed in 2011 by the defense and he did his job to win games but defense let him down. So 18 TD’s and 18 turnovers in 13 games from your QB is a recipe for winning in the NFL? It’s below average QB play and by no means is it good enough for a guy getting paid like a top franchise QB. Not to mention he had McCoy going crazy combining for almost 2000 total yards and 19TD’s and still with all the attention the defense had to give McCoy Vick still only managed pedestrian #’s.

            So the 2011 failure lays at the feet of the defense and Vick did his job huh? So $12 million for a QB is only good for even TD’s to INT ratio? Wow that is crazy man. LOL

            In 2012 in 10 games Vick had a whopping 12 TD’s and 10 INT’s and 3 lost fumbles. So this time he had 1 more turnover than TD passes.So in 2011 and 2012 he played in 23 games and had 30 TD’s & 31 total turnovers. So according to your statement that the 2011 & 2012 seasons failures were on the defense not Vick. So if a QB throws a pick or fumbles the same amount of times he throws a TD he puts his team in position to be a playoff team in the NFL? Please explain bc to me that is below average.

          • Dutch

            Foles in 6 games, threw 5 interceptions and 8 fumbles. Foles rate of turn overs is far greater than

            that of Vick.

            Vick’s turnover although distressing, was not the reason the Eagles missed the playoffs in 2011. To even hint that was the problem is a manufactured idea build out of desperation.

            There were at least 4 games the Eagles should have won in 2011 they did not simply because of poor tackling, stupid scheme and faulty technique on defense. The Packers playoff game was not won because of the Akers missing field goals.

            2012 simply was a disaster because Jason Peters was injured. It mattered little who else was on the Offensive Line, Watkins couldn’t block, Herremans was as bad a Bell and Dunlap and Kelce was injured. Vick loss Kelce and Peters pretty much from the door. So don’t cry in Foles milk because he didn’t have the starting Offensive Line, neither did Vick.

            The Guy you support is just not good enough. Not in my Eyes, nor most of the Eagles Fans in Philly and around the United States.

          • JofreyRice

            I’d say most sentient creatures in the Galaxy know that Foles isn’t good enough, and never will be either. Some silicon based life forms in the gamma sector think that Foles has good pocket presence, but that’s just mere chatter on forums not based in Phila.

          • Dutch

            Actually Foles isn’t part of many discussions on forums or, other places outside of Phila.

            The Quarterback discussion revolves around Barkley and Vick where Philly is concerned.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            In 2011 4 of those interceptions game in the Buffalo Game – where ONE of those was actually the fault of Vick.

            I mean I still remember the Maclin letting a defender rip the ball out of his hands – and that being called an interception because Maclin never had full control.

            The Atlanta game he was knocked out of by his own lineman – he was credited with an INT only b/c Reid wouldn’t throw the flag though the players kept telling him it wasn’t an INT and the replay never played b/c of a screwup by ABC (or was it CBS).

            In 2012 6 of Michael Vicks turnovers came in games the Eagles won.

            Turnovers are only part of the story – the 2011 team in particular could have played exactly as they did and if the defense could have held anything we’re in the playoffs and not the Giants.

            Or did you forget that 2011 the Eagles had the best divisional record and the Gaints only had one more win.

        • JofreyRice

          Sure it has, time has caught up with him. He looked his worst as plays broke down last year. A huge portion of the turnovers were from those plays. He doesn’t have the same feel for avoiding pressure. There was always some element of “magic” when he extended plays, where you just said–”How is he doing this?”. That magic is gone. His body is completely bashed apart. Truthfully, watching Darryl Washington just destroy him play after play in the Cardinals game was like watching one of those nature specials where the once-powerful, proud old lion is dismantled by a young upstart.

          I actually agree with you that some portion of the locker room might prefer him, even if he loses a fair competition. As I mentioned in my response to Adam, I think it’s probably either Vick can do enough to be the starter for Chip Kelly, or he’s not going to be an Eagle.

          • Dutch

            You have a point, Vick was drilled in the pocket almost 100 times aside from being sacked 28 times. There’s no doubt he was battered and bruised. Even Foles was battered and beaten to a pult being sacked 20 times, and eventually subcuming to an injury.

            The racking Vick took was due in part to Andy Reid holding the kid in the pocket. He and every other Eagle QB held in the Eagles pocket last year was nothing more than a tackling dummy. The argument would be credible on his demise, if not for Foles also being battered and knocked out of a game.

            However, the point is still Vick at 85% speed gives you so much more of an opportunity to win and be competitive than anything that Nick Foles can give to the Eagles or any other NFL Team. That was obvious from his games in 2012.

          • JofreyRice

            A lot of that was his own doing, as he drifted into pressure, or took huge, unnecessary hits. Remember the Steelers game, when the defense jumped offsides, which gave the Eagles a free play? Vick scrambled 4 yards, then got pancaked by 330 pound Casey Hampton. That’s just not using your head.

            He’s a tough cookie, but has always been fragile, and Reid’s slow-developing vertical offense didn’t help. Exonerating Vick for the multitude of horrible decisions that caused him to get injured in situations where it could have been avoided is misguided.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            God, that was such a bonehead play. Even I know from being taught as a kid.. defense jumps offside, throw it deep, it’s a free play.. not exactly rocket science.

          • Dutch

            Getting hit is not new to Vick, he’s a tough son of a gun. But unfortunately every time he’s been injured it’s been standing in the pocket being hit waiting on plays to develop down field. If he’s getting hit by a 330 lb linemen, it’s due to his looking down field trusting his line and we all know his line wasn’t trustworthy in 2012.

            The very same leveling happened to Nick Foles, he just wore out before taking 1/3 of the hits Vick takes.

        • Andy124

          Last game of the season, Eagles recover an onside kick to start the game. Huge boost to the spirits. Chance to play spoiler and pull off the upset. Vick promptly gives the ball back to the Giants. I promise you there were a lot of verterans, rookies and coaches on that team wishing Foles was playing quarterback right then instead.

          • Dutch

            Vick was still Concussed………

          • JofreyRice

            I think you might be concussed.

          • MAC

            Of course. That’s amazing that after several weeks Vick in his concused state figured a way out to finally beat the concusion test. Makes sense and sounds nothing like an excuse for Vick. LOL

        • Warhound

          Nobody has football instincts. To be fair, many (most?) people get that wrong.

        • MAC

          Funny that no Vick supporters were complaining about Reid’s offensive system in 2010 when Vick went off in it. I do agree that Reid’s system last year was to predicated on the deep ball. I am not going to argue that, but Reid is what made Vick a much better passer than he was ever before in his career. I just think it’s funny how many Vick fans tend to blame Vick’s production on Reid’s system, yet when Vick flourished in it in 2010 they had no issue with it. While Kelly’s system is supposedly perfect for Vick in many Vick fans estimation. So no excuses if he doesn’t win the job or plays poorly and looses it.

          Your claims that Kelly is running a huge risk not starting Vick is a joke. The players should trust there head coach in making those decisions. It’s not like Vick has been so good for last 2 years that the players in the locker room will go crazy without him at QB. These claims are just ridiculous bro. The players in that locker room have not had success under Vick in last 2 years and they know he is an aging QB. This is the NFL; teams that are rebuilding on the fly go with young QB most of the time, even if it is just to find out if he is the future. Those teams do not boycott there coach. Foles probably not the future, but neither is Vick and I am sure many of the players know that also.

          • Dutch

            In 2010, Vick was pretty much instinctive. He wasn’t forced in 2010 to drop back 50 times a game.
            2010 wasn’t a scheme produced by Andy Reid. 2010 was Reid getting out of the way.

            2012 if the scheme was not the culprit than Foles after replacing Vick would have threw for more than 5 TDs instead of 6 Interceptions in his 6 starts. Nor have the players saw any chance to have an improvement with Foles after seeing him struggle over the 6 games in 2012. What the players and fans do see is Vick being the only choice to win and be competitive until Barkley takes over.

            If you hadn’t notice that minor difference than your entire argument is off base.The Concept of keeping his eyes down field was good to locate breaking receivers, bad in not paying attention to the linemen breaking containment and closing in on him in the pocket.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            I’m not a Barkley fan. I’m not convinced he’s going to be the QB you think he is. I think the “franchise” guy is probably not on the roster yet – HOWEVER I will say they (The Eagles) beleive Barkley is that dude.

        • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

          The thing is – Vick didn’t do too badly with the changes Reid instilled. He IS a better QB for it.

          The problem was M. Vick shouldn’t be:

          1. Contained in the pocket all the time
          2. On a team that doesn’t run the ball
          3. Throw 50+ times a game. in 2010 he averaged 30x a game. Keep him under 40 and those turnovers drastically decrease.

          Reid REFUSED to make adjustments for the player he had – and even with that 2011 would have been a playoff year if it wasn’t for the INCREDIBLY stupid personnel decisions that affect on field play.

          • Andy124

            #1 is entirely debatable. You may be completely correct. I know of one devout Vick supporter who would completely disagree.

            #2 is true for all quarterbacks, so we agree in principle there. Hooray. :)

            Re: point #3

            31.0 pass attempt/game in 2010
            32.5 in 2011
            35.1 in 2012

            Vick actually had a lower interception % in 2012 than in 2011.

            We agree that Reid made Vick a better QB. And we agree that Reid made some bizarre decisions his last few years here.

            But the numbers don’t support your third point at all. I was genuinely surprised by those numbers actually.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            Your 2012 and 2011 numbers are off as far as pass attempts per game – your factoring numbers where he didn’t play the entire game – can’t do that and get adequate numbers.

          • Andy124

            Good point. Thank you for the correction. Gave you an up vote for that.

            The 2012 number jumps up to 38/game.

            2011 is hard to tell, partially because it was long enough ago that I don’t remember exactly when he was injured in those games, partially because backups didn’t have a significant amount of pass attempts in any games that Vick played in. Looks like it’s still well less than 38/game.

          • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

            2011 wasn’t a bad year for Vick – I said under 40 a game – the truth is 30 is the sweet spot – he actually has a winning record at that number – I say under 40 b/c most of those games lost in 2011 wasn’t on him – but that 31x a game in 2010 basically lines up with my 30x a game point.

  • Dominik

    Is it time to get a little nervous if Kelly is slowing things down? Probably the right thing to do, MAYBE even planned from the get-go (‘if we start to implement more of our systems, we have to slow things down…’), but still – definitely not a Wake-up Call with good news. ;)

    • cliff henny

      might be a relative deal here…instead of going 10x’s faster than everyone else, he’s decreased it to 7 x’s, he’s still going alot faster than everyone else

    • JofreyRice

      I pretty much take it at face value. Shock them with the speed at first, and get them used to it with a scaled down version of the playbook, then install at a slower speed. After they get the install portion of it down, they can return to full speed, which they’re already familiar with.

  • Andy124

    Reminder to myself as much as anyone else… Trolls, don’t feed ‘em.

    • theycallmerob

      Beat me to it. Amazing how many posts devolve to vick vs foles

  • Psychopathetic1

    Vick either ignores or doesn’t pay attention to anything he doesn’t want to put an effort towards. He is the laziest athlete I’ve ever seen. He’ll put forth an effort this year because he has something to prove. Just like 2010, as soon as he gets what HE wants he will get lazy again.

  • Roy B Hill

    Donovan, as a Philadelphian, you are the best quarterback that the Eagles have had for at least the last 20 to 25 years. But, you have to remember that RGIII is in his mid-twenties. He is still a kid and some kids, when their sucessful, like to show off. I agree with you that football is a team game and I agree that RGIII should try and not create distractions. As an Eagles fan, I think RGIII should have a news conference going every minute of every Redskins’ practices. The more distractions he creates for the Redskins only puts the Eagles in a better position to kick their arses.

  • Phils Goodman

    Somewhere, Tim and Sheil look at this comments section and weep.

  • Maniki Jenkins

    Why are people making Foles the savior of the franchise? He didn’t show me anything last year the garnered him the hype that he has!!! He beat a Tampa team who was horrible against the pass and just so happened had their best corner out for suspension. Is Foles horrible? No. But to say that Vick was outplayed when they had very similar stats and that’s with Foles throwing a lot of slants and dink and dunks and it just so happened Andy decided to run the ball too. Like it or not people Vick is the best qb on the Eagles roster right now to win with. Screw all that rebuilding talk!

  • theycallmerob

    …and George Bush doesn’t care about black puppets

  • JofreyRice

    I actually don’t think that’s true. He’s extremely and irrationally anti-Foles, but has expressed confidence in Barkley. I think there are folks on either sides of the issue that are looking at it primarily for those reasons, but from what he’s posted, it doesn’t seem like Dutch is someone like that.

    I have no idea why he’s so sure about Foles, other than the fact that he thinks he’s a QB guru with better evaluation skills than either Andy Reid or Chip Kelly, and 6 games from a rookie Foles is enough to make definitive statements about his career.

  • Warhound

    No evidence of that, sorry.

  • Dutch

    Good Grief…….this is the type of person you stay away from in the Concourse at the Linc.

  • Dutch

    How many successful QBs has Andy Reid sent from the Eagles into the league, and which QB has graduated Kelly’s program to be of any significance in the NFL ?

    The coach down at the University of Delaware has a better track record of supplying the NFL with quality QBs than Andy Reid and Chip Kelly. Hell yea, I’m more than qualified.

    Rookies in the NFL don’t get much more than 6 games to prove themselves. Foles had his 6 games.

  • Dutch

    What games were you watching? I didn’t see any games Foles played where he wasn’t in a state of panic after his first hit in the pocket.

    Surely you’re not another who will highlight the Tampa Bay game as evidence of Foles potential?

  • MAC

    I noticed you avoided the rebudle I had to your claims that Vick did enough in 2011 and 2012 to win games and those season failures were at the feet of the defense totally. I figured you would avoid facts and real stats that counter your outlandishly terrible claim.

  • Dutch

    With foles as Starting QB the Season is over from the opening game, what makes you think support is going to be any better under those circumstances in Philly? This year the defense is going to be as bad if not worse.

    Phila isn’t Oakland, Eagles Fans aren’t in the mood to lose. There are still cheap tickets available now, which is unusual in Philly. The Eagles don’t reach the Playoff this year and if Foles is under center. Next year stands to be a fiscal disaster for the Eagles at the gate.

  • CJ

    Alright, now you’re contradicting yourself even further. Comparing Reid to Kelly in this context hurts your point.

    Reid got QBs to play well in his system, and they sucked for other teams after we sold high. If Kelly has similar success, that’s fine by me. I don’t care if Kelly’s QBs play well for Washington, Arizona, Buffalo, KC, or the Calgary Stampeders for goodness sake.

    If his QBs perform well in his system, that’s all I want. Foles was in an impossible situation last year, which you seem to neglect while giving Vick a pass for the same. I’m not comparing Foles to anyone, but I don’t see how even a Brady or Rogers or Brees could even succeed with the offense the eagles were rolling out there in the middle to end of last season. One starting OL, a turnover machine at RB, Clay Harbor at TE, Jason Avant as a leading receiver. Just throw out last year as the cluster**** it was for the whole entire roster and don’t paint anyone with such a wide brush based on that of that unmitigated disaster.

    How any fan can use that wreck of a season to make any definitive evaluations in the context of a completely different system this season is entirely beyond comprehension: be it Pro-Foles/ Anti-Vick, or Pro – Vick/ Anti-Foles either argument based on last season is asinine IMO.

  • theycallmerob

    Rich Gannon played under the legendary “Tubby” Raymond, while Flacco transferred from Pitt and played under K.C. Keeler, my coach as well.

    C’mon, at least pretend to use facts.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    Hey, you leave the Stamps out of this.

  • theycallmerob

    Calgary? huh…strictly inferring from your allusions, I had you pegged as a newfie.

  • CJ

    let’s make it the BC Lions then

  • Dutch

    You don’t control that…….. and if your happiness depended on it, you’re in for a miserable year. So maybe it’s a benefit to your emotional being for you to stay away from the Eagles, being you are of the minority opinion on Vick.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    Close, Nova Scotia. But I’m a Stamps fan for some reason.

  • theycallmerob

    well, at least your not one of those pretentious quebecois…can I get a huzzah???