Foles Gets Bulk Of Reps With First Team

Before Chip Kelly‘s frenetic practices take off,  the quarterbacks are given a general idea of what team they will be running with and how often. But they won’t know for sure until quarterbacks coach Bill Lazor calls out their name over the music during the live sessions.

On Monday, it was Foles who had his number called the most to run with the ones.

By Sheil’s count, there were five “team” periods at practice, as OTAs continued at the NovaCare Complex. Foles manned the first team for three of them, and Michael Vick the other two. Last week when the media was able to watch, Vick appeared to get a little more of the workload.

Kelly promised a quarterback competition, and so far this has the looks of one.

“Everybody gets reps and there’s no particular order. We just go out there and rep. I don’t think any of us really think first, second, third, whatever, and when it’s time to go up we’ve got to go execute the play,” said Foles. “Your mind set is that you’re in a game and you’re playing the situation.”

Foles looked pretty sharp and in command overall. He threw an accurate deep ball, including a pretty pass to Jason Avant down the right seam. (Granted, Avant was being covered by Brandon Graham on the play.) His day wasn’t perfect. There was one noticeable breakdown pre-snap when Foles was  the QB, as Avant and DeSean Jackson had trouble receiving the call and were still confused when the play went off. (That’s not necessarily Foles’ fault, but he was in charge at the time.) Foles also had a ball deflected and nearly intercepted by Bradley Fletcher on an out pass intended for Jackson. But for the most part, he was fluid and on-point behind center.

“I feel really comfortable. Every day I get more and more comfortable,” said Foles. “The more you’re in a system, the more you rep plays, you just get more and more comfortable because visually you’re seeing it, you’re going through it, you’re studying it, and I think the big thing is everybody else is getting more comfortable and working together, so you’re able to feel like if they give us this coverage on this route, I know the receiver’s going to do that, because a lot of times we’re throwing the ball before they’re breaking, so we have to know what their landmark is. So I think that’s the big thing. We’re progressing as a team in every situation.”

Matt Barkley was typically the next man in behind Foles and Vick, followed by Dennis Dixon and G.J. Kinne. Splitting time with all these quarterbacks and sharing the first-team load is a new experience for Vick, but he seems to be taking it in stride thus far.

“You don’t get an opportunity to get all the reps you would if it was less quarterbacks,” said Vick. “But hey, you got to get as many mental reps as you can. That’s what I try to do; I try to sit back and watch the other guys read the defense, think about the concepts and the plays, and try to be the best I can be when I step out there, because everybody’s getting different plays.”

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  • Anebriated

    Before people start getting all crazy about Vick with the 2′s it probably has more to do with getting Lane Johnson used to protecting a left handed QB than it does with Foles being the #1 QB.

    • phil

      or you know…it could be a qb competition like kelly keeps saying.

      • Anebriated

        Entirely possible. Just saying if I have a raw high first round pick OT who is going to be switching over to the right side I would want him to get some extra reps to get ready for training camp(and the real competitions). When you add in the fact that the likely starting QB(Vick) is the rare left handed QB then you really want to give the rookie some extra work with what hes likely to play with.

        • Andy124

          Yeah, I know if I wanted my “likely starting QB” to get work with my likely starting RT, I would run them both with the 2s, not the 1s. That would be silly.

          • Anebriated

            At this point of the season it doesnt matter if they are running with the 1s or the 2s, Kelly just wants the tape. Chip Kelly doesnt do traditional. Stop thinking that way.

            @Tom, yeah they just spent the #4 pick on someone who they dont anticipate to start early in the season. Doesnt matter if its game 1 or game 8, they need to get him used to the right side with a left handed QB under center.

          • phil

            ‘they need to get him used to the right side with a left handed QB under center.’

            because Vick is the clear cut starter, right?

          • Anebriated

            Hardly clear cut. Hes currently the favorite to win the job though and until we see otherwise Vick should be considered the starter.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            it’s safe to assume that if Lane Johnson isn’t RT, then the RT isn’t on the roster at this time.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Kelly doesn’t do traditional…but only when it supports an argument i made.

        • Tom

          Did Kelly ever say Lane Johnson was a game one starter? I’m pretty sure he said something along the lines of every position is up for grabs (not just the quarterbacks)

          • JofreyRice

            Big difference between opening up competition on a roster he inherited and the #4 overall pick in the draft he helped choose. No reason to think he won’t be, but it would not be a good sign if Lane Johnson isn’t the Week 1 starter.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            It would be a complete disaster if Lane Johnson was on the second team in September.

          • JofreyRice

            Yep. Using the #4 overall pick on an OLineman and then sitting him isn’t just “unorthodox”, it’s stupid, and a poor use of a high pick. I don’t think Kelly’s doing that, he’s just letting the kid get his feet for a few days. I’m sure Johnson will be the starter at the beginning of the season.

    • cliff henny

      theory would be sound if johnson switched back and forth with 1′s and 2′s along side vick. right now, would just say it’s combo of reducing pressure and he still needs to learn.

      • Anebriated

        At the same time that gives precedence to the competition theory. The fact that hes getting more reps with Vick(likely opening day starter) but still getting some reps with Foles(right handed second option) will get him ready to play for either. Today he got more reps with Vick. Also of note the OL coach wasnt at practice due to travel delays.

        • cliff henny

          last week vick ran with the 1′s more often than 2′s.

    • Septhinox

      You should google “Occam’s Razor”

  • http://twitter.com/ScottJ610 Scott J

    Can’t wait to see this offense in action.

  • cliff henny

    At least Kelly is honest, promised a QB competition and we’re getting it. for now, seems like 50/50 overall. the interesting part will be if and when Barkley gets his shot with the 1′s and 2′s, and who’s the odd man out being relegated to the 3′s.

    • Jordan England

      Dixon will be the of man out an will be a camp QB. G.J Kinne on the other hand will be cut

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    Vick is full of crap. hes never taken a mental rep in his life

    • Bdawkbdawk

      oh, you.

  • JofreyRice

    meh, 3/5 vs. 2/5. Still very early.

  • JohnEagles

    The team needs need new energy, talent, and excitement. Vick and Foles are from Reid’s era. Let’s move on. I’m all in Barkley as starter!

    • Tom

      Nick Foles was barely given a shot and showed that he NEVER quits. That’s the kind of quarterback that you want. Did you really think that a rookie was going to come in with a line that was arguably as the line that Tim Couch was a rookie with on the Browns and expect him to win every game?
      I agree that we need to move on from Vick, but Foles deserves the same chance that the others do.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        You play the hand you’re dealt. Foles had every chance last season to put an end to the Vick saga and failed to deliver. To suggest in his body of work he showed promise and potential is delusional at best.

        Any potential Foles had may have gone by the side being thrown before the baptism before he was ready. Honestly, he showed an inability to handle a NFL rush, similar to Kevin Kolb.

        In all Foles was no better than expected in securing the ball after fumbling 8 times after being hit in the pocket in 235 passing attempts, making quick decisions and locating his progressions. He was subpar in intermediate and short throws, and hasn’t the arm strength to hit deep receivers. And that’s aside from steering down his receiver and having two left foot, footwork on his drops.

        • Stephen Stempo

          Do I have to link you to eaglesrewind.com s breakdown and comparisons of foles rookies season to other rookie qbs over the last decade again ? Didn’t I do that already ? Do you just hate math that much ?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Nope, I don’t buy into that nonsense. I seen with my own eyes the disaster Foles was in 2012 and frankly the play was mediocre at best with nothing left in my opinion to prove. The kid isn’t ready at this point and throwing him before an NFL rush served no productive purpose.

            He’s as much a turn over machine as Vick if that’s a characterization for Vick.

            As a matter of fact, he wasn’t exposed to half the punishment that Vick was before being carted off to the mash unit and ending his season.

            Quarterback in the NFL over the last decade to 12 years is a sink or swim proposal. You get in and show promise or you don’t. There’s no developing of a Quarterback any more.

            Noone can name a Quarterback who sat for a year or two and became a quality addition to an offense, other than Rivers and Rogers, and Rivers sat because of Brees, and Rogers sat because of Favre.

          • Stephen Stempo

            http://eaglesrewind.com/2013/01/15/more-on-foles/ there read it again. Or get glasses. Then read it again. Then read a book on logic and reasoning and read it again. If that doesn’t work try getting drunk and reading it. Or high. Or stop getting high and read it again. Or stop believing in magic and read it again. Or ask a tutor to come explain it to you if some of the words are too big.

            You know what I learned a long time ago ? Everyone is entitled to there opinion. That doesn’t mean that their opinion still isn’t dumb. You’re entitled to your opinion of foles but that article and others pretty much show that your opinion is dumb.

          • theycallmerob

            He has already stated that facts, logic, and induction are unnecessary to bring to the table.

          • FMWarner

            It’s true. He “seen” it with his own eyes.

          • JofreyRice

            You’ve got to admit, his arguments are pure gold. Wild theories, poor word choice, syntax errors, origami logic, claims of special knowledge and insight. I don’t know how the Eagles season is going to turn out, but I hope he posts a lot, throughout.

          • theycallmerob

            Phew….for a moment there, I thought that maybe- just maybe- the bourbon is finally liquifying my brain in the same manner as my liver. But then I just read some of his fine published works, and remind myself there are still a few marbles left.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            For all the nonsense you post, you guys are still the minority on Foles as a QB in the NFL, even in Phila your assessments are minority opinions.

            There’s not one credible analysis who presents a case for Foles, and none having played in the NFL or College Football.

            Foles is the 2012 Mike Kafka.

          • Stephen Stempo

            There’s Chip kelly giving him 60% of the reps with the ones today, but im not sure who chip thinks he is.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            My only disappointment is that Barkley wasn’t given ample opportunity with the first team offense today.

            How is it competition fairly if Barkley isn’t given the same chance to build chemistry with the first team receivers, backs and Ends?

          • Stephen Stempo

            Also it doesn’t matter if or where a person played. Especially since I gave you stats.

          • theycallmerob

            Dutch, I will give you a Quintabazillion Dutch Dollars if you can find one comment of mine on this post where I made the case for Foles to be a starter.

            See, like most well-researched yet humble fans of the game who are passionate enough to be on this blog through the dead of winter and into these exciting spring months, I’m merely painting an incomplete picture based on limited starting experience for a failing, injured team under a lame duck coach.

            But most importantly, I am willing to keep an open mind. Please, though, continue to speak for whatever made up % of philadelphians you believe you represent.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I don’t have to be humble mostly because I know the game after living and playing for most of my life.

            I didn’t learn football playing Madden.

            When it comes down to it, most of you are soccer fans talking about football. It’s not difficult to assess your knowledge has come from reading blogs and listening to the local Phila radio pundits about the game.

          • MAC

            Hey man it’s not everyone else man. It’s you bro. It’s not that you just understand football so much better than everyone on here. Rather it’s your inflated ego and your misconception of how well you evaluate football in general.

            Dutch knows Foles can never develop into a starting QB before even the NFL coaches know. Dutch looks at Barwin deal and somehow believes that Barwin could not make the team this season possibly. Despite the cap hit the team takes by cutting him this season even without him on the roster if they did cut him. No logic at all there. It’s that you play the hand your dealt with Foles according to Dutch and it’s Foles fault no matter the circumstances. Yet Vick has league leading turnovers last 2 years per game played and somehow the play the hand your dealt goes out the window to suit his irrational argument.

            You really need to stop smoking out of the “dutch” man. It’s messing with your NFL potential mind. You need to have a clear head so you can explain your genius logic to us simple soccer, oh I mean NFL fans.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I reality have no idea what Foles will be, but I and an assortment of credible professional analysis know what he’s not, and that is a credible NFL Quarterback right now. Nor better than Vick.

            That in no way endorses Vick…….

            The argument is simple, Other than Foles having no pocket moxie, a NFL arm nor accuracy in the intermediate, short or deep route and no ability to secure the ball in the pocket, or make quick decisions and possessing no footwork in the pocket with that long arching whine up…… he’s alright.

            But not alright enough to start any where in the NFL

            Anyone that believe he does or has shown potential to start now, knows nothing about football.

          • Stephen Stempo
          • eaglepete

            whats funny about this entire thread is, theres a good chance that Foles will not be a quality starter in this league. This will somehow validate this argument for Dutch even though you are absolutely owning him. Its akin to me claiming the sixers wont win it all this next season, not really a hard thing to guess, odds are in his favor.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Foles not being or getting to be a credible Starter in the league is and has been my only point.

          • Stephen Stempo

            You know you don’t really get it Dutch. I wish you did, I’m not arguing for Foles I’m arguing against you.To a lesser Extent I think Foles should start over vick because in all honesty Vick isn’t that good.

            So did you read the link from eaglesrewind I sent you?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            That maybe true, but Foles is in no way any better than Vick or any other Starting QB in the NFL.

            Fans of the Eagles aren’t paying $150 dollars a ticket and more to watch a team Quarterbacked by Foles.

          • theycallmerob

            I have- went to his debut in DC last year. And come Sept. 19, will likely again see him start.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            When Foles started nobody could give a ticket away to see the Eagles, the resale market for Eagle tickets was a utter disaster. That’s not the norm for Eagles tickets at home or on the road.

            I can’t tell you the last game I attended at the Linc or on the Road that the Eagles weren’t a complete sell out with a capacity crowd. Other than when Nick Foles was starting for a concussed Vick.

          • theycallmerob

            Yes, I’m sure that had everything to do with Foles and not the Disaster That Was 2012. But please, continue to speak for me and everyone else.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I’m strictly speaking for myself and the sentiment of those who sit in proximity to me at the Linc.

          • Stephen Stempo

            I’m sure the wear and tear of a being 3 and 8 had nothing to do with it.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            3 and 8, I don’t know that Chip could survive one season like that, I’m more certain he will never survive two season like that.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Also are you making the case that the QB decision should be based on who sells more tickets????

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Up to this point it was not. The Eagles are in the business of selling tickets.

            I don’t think Lurie is willing to chance his success on developing a QB through losing seasons. Do you?

            I guarantee Fans aren’t willing to continue to support through consecutive losing seasons when there has only been 2 sub 500 seasons in the last 12 years.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Please stop with this garbage. If Lurie wanted a QB to sell tickets we would have signed Tebow.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            And how many of the 70K paying customers at the Linc would fall for Tebow………. Stop with the madness.

            Tebow has a better chance at suiting up for the Flyers then Eagles ever in his lifetime.

            There’s a knowledge drain in Philly with regards to football, but it’s not a circus.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            You do realize how small a sliver ticket revenue is to an NFL team right? 50 mill a season compared to billions for TV, licensing and merchandise. There will never be an instance that Jeff Lurie forces a player on a coach to sell tickets. He never has, and he has never interjected himself into football decisions. So your empty seat argument is irrelevant. He fires coaches and GM’s if he’s not happy with the team.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I wouldn’t be so sure of that, we’ve seen many things in the NFL. First and foremost is that the NFL is a money machine. I’m not representing a position one way or another. But I think I have a finger on the pulse of ticket purchasers in Phila and frankly Eagles Fans and Philadelphians in general are bandwagon jumpers.

            The Eagles enjoy success because they are competitive and entertaining. Fans aren’t sitting in the Linc under any condition supporting losing efforts especially if there is no personality on the team.

            Ask the Phillies. You can believe what you want, and it’s noble thinking to believe under all circumstances the Eagles fans are willing to pay in support of the Eagles, but only so long as they are in contention for a playoff position.

          • Stephen Stempo

            http://eaglesrewind.com/2013/01/15/more-on-foles/

            I’m going to keep showing you this until it sinks in. Focus on the “very few false positives” line.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Also can you stop changing the paramaters of your argument? Do you think Foles is god-awful with terrible footwork? Do you think he’s just overrated by people on this board? Do you think that the decisions is going to be financially based? Or do you think that Mike Vick is just better? It’s really easy to win an argument when you keep changing what the argument is.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Yes, Foles is a ill prepared QB. Well the people on

            this board haven’t any real knowledge of Football or talent, so it’s opinions are to be expected from those who get their information on Talk Radio in Phila.

            Financially based in the respect who is more likely to be an asset to the bottom line and marketability. Hands down, Barkley is the man in that category.

            Vick is much better than Foles, that’s not a legitimate question. Vick actually has NFL accomplishments, Fole doesn’t have much in terms of accomplishments with the Eagles or before at Arizona.

            The argument is that Foles in his 2012 unveiling hasn’t demonstrated he’s ready for the NFL and came willfully unprepared to carry the mantle.

            My position hasn’t changed.

            Kelly seems a reasonable man. Had he saw evidence there was something to Foles, he would not have spent Lurie’s money to retain Vick nor used a good position in the draft to take Barkley.

          • Stephen Stempo
          • Will Holden

            Dutch you can hardly compare Nick Foles performance to Vick’s last year. Nick Foles starts playing with a team that was just ravaged by injuries that just kept adding up. 4 starting offensive Linemen out, McCoy was out concussion, DJax was out broken ribs, Bryce Brown fumbles didn’t help, MacLin was just getting blown up b/c he was the only real WR left playing( with nagging hip pointer mind ya), Celek tried but it was obvious that defenses were keying on him as well. The Eagles offense was just crippled and I think a lot of us Philadelphia Eagles fans were impressed with his poise and look forward what Nick Foles could do behind a bunch of Healthy starter’s in front of him!

          • Stephen Stempo

            That’s some crack thinking there too. Someone who’s played 6 games hasn’t accomplished what someone with 11 years of experience has. Where do you come up with this stuff?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            You can’t compare the dynamics of Vick’s game with Foles, simply because Foles doesn’t have any.

            Compare Foles with like peers who entered the league in 2012 and started at least 6 games and, Foles comes no closer to being a credible candidate to Start in the NFL.

            There aren’t any amount of exceptions and exemptions you could allow for Foles and the disaster his campaign was not be the wreck it became.

            He’s simply not ready as he was not prepared when granted an opportunity.

          • eaglepete

            Right, but everyone else is saying he deserves more of a look is all. Then the usual vick stuff. I give you credit here, you replied to almost every post, way to hang tough even though I disagree. I would never really judge a players potential from their QB record etc, lotta guys didnt have great teams around them in college. Cutler etc, how was Kaps team? Warner? Im sure there are many example. Rip him for his NFL starts and I get it, too many variable in college hence all the over analytical combine stuff.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Actually they are saying a bit more. But I don’t see the pulse of Eagles fans to be willing to suffer through losing seasons in the name of allowing Foles to get his feet under him.

            The norm is that if your feet isn’t under you when the chance comes, all probability is Foles, based on his NFL Body of Work won’t amount to anything.

            That is what recent history tells us. QBs who don’t do well over an initial period of introduction never recover to do well enough to become productive starters in the NFL.

          • Stephen Stempo

            So you say “there’s no exceptions to these rules” and the NAME exceptions to the rule you just stated? How about Eli manning ? Donovan mcnabb sat most of the year and was meh for 2 years after ( numbers wise).

            You just make stuff up don’t you ?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Eli started in his first year and every year since. Donovan McNabb started like wise in his first year and every year since.

            It doesn’t change, the age old theory of sitting a Quarterback for a year or two is not the norm in the NFL and hasn’t been over the last 12 years.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Foles started in his first year and tbd

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            The Best Foles will ever look until he gets some coaching under his belt is with that Red Jersey and Shorts before live action.

            This is the same built up over Kevin Kolb, who after two Quarters it was apparent Kevin Kolb had the heart of the Easter Bunny and an Arm of Cotton Candy

            Like most talent that comes by way of Texas, both are Cowboys with hats only.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Stop making stuff up.

          • theycallmerob

            *started 7 games, and not by design but due to injury. big difference in terms of preparation.

          • Stephen Stempo

            You’re right it’s not the norm. But the times it has been done it worked out BETTER.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Who was the last starter that benefited from riding the bench for a year, with in the last 12 years

          • Stephen Stempo

            You named them yourselves. How many starters have FAILED miserably after starting from day 1and had to be benched.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Unless you believe that Rodgers would have easily been as ready to start as a rookie.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            What I believe isn’t relevant to the Fact, Rogers sat behind Farve, period As did Phillips Rivers behind Breese.

            Teams move on when a Quarterback has a disaster of an introduction to the NFL like Foles had in 2012.

            Believing anything else about Quarterbacking in the NFL is fantasy to fit a specific narrative. You have it or you don’t, and Foles hasn’t shown he has it.

          • Andy124

            credibility–;

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I don’t keep account of failures and lower tier players, nor do I bother myself with watching players who I believe aren’t skilled enough to be in the league.

            I’m not interested in watching players who I believe I am/was better then. Watching Pee Wee Football is a better use of my time.

            Where I live, kids as young as 8 are scouted and recruited for High School and present a better brand of Football than someone trying to catch on you know doesn’t have the talent to be competitive in the league.

          • Andy124

            Drew Brees played in 1 game his rookie year.

            Oh, and then there’s Colin Kaepernick (sp?)

          • MAC

            The best QB in the NFL. Aarin Rodgers ever heard of him? Tom Brady sat his rookie year and worked on arm strength and overall QB skills and think that worked out?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            You’d have to review the post to understand that’s an outlier. Rogers sat behind Farve, as Rivers sat behind Brees for a season or two on both occasions, those are exceptions in the last 12 years.

            Flat out, no Quarterback who has had a disaster of a string of games as Foles in their first year has recovered to reclaim that starting position.

            Foles has not made a credible case to start, had he Chip would not have optioned to resign Vick, or draft a QB in the forth round of this year’s draft.

          • nicksaenz1

            Occasionally he does, but more often he just picks and chooses stats he wishes to believe and puts them into a context he can manipulate to continue his contempt for Foles and delusional love for Vick, regardless of the reality.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            You have no idea of any contempt I may hold for anyone, that’s a theory directly pulled out of your anus. Like much of your post on this thread

            The point is Foles hasn’t shown he can withstand the activity in the pocket and make good decisions or throws necessary to be a competitive NFL Quarterback.

          • Stephen Stempo

            It’s a decent inference based on your avoidance of anything resembling facts in favor of “magic” err I mean your opinion.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Son, the fantasy is that Foles demonstrated any degree of command of the pocket and activity on the field when presented the opportunity over 6 games. The entire barometer of Foles is generated against Tampa Bay, the absolute worst pass defense in the NFL.

            Temple could have run up 300 yds passing against the same line up

          • theycallmerob

            I knew it! You’re the new handle for “Matt Jacobs”, who used to troll this board. He was similarly stubbornly opinionated, seemed allergic to logic, and was condescending and d!ckish enough to call people “son”.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            What logic could be had in evaluating Nick Foles as a NFL Ready Quarterback from his 2012 campaign?

            Trent Edwards had a better pre Season in 2012 and he should have been given that stage when Vick was concussed.

            That alone proves installing Foles into the lineup was nothing more than an act of desperation to relieve Andy of the media’s attention.

            To say he demonstrated much positive and of use to a competing team is delusional and frankly a bizarre assessment of his talent.

          • theycallmerob

            This is where it gets fun! You said it yourself:

            “What logic could be had in evaluating Nick Foles as a NFL Ready Quarterback from his 2012 campaign?”

            Therefore, what “logic” (and I use this loosely with you) would allow you to opine- or in your case, preach as gospel akin to Moses himself- that you or anyone has seen enough from the 2012 campaign to write him off completely?

            Go ahead and just argue with yourself for awhile. I’m going to grab a drink, will catch up later.

          • theycallmerob

            So you don’t deny it! Welcome back, Matt.

          • Phils Goodman

            Matt actually goes by Token now. Dutch has made comments in defense of Vick, which means he’s not Matt.

          • Stephen Stempo

            just say it dutch. Say you believe in magic. And unicorns and dragons. Listen I want there to be magic. I wish I could ride a dragon and get a flaming sword and save a princess from a tower ooooh.. But I can’t. Just like you WISH that Mike Vick has ever shown himself to be a competent QB over more than an 8 game stretch. And that at 32 will magically become one. The difference is I KNOW there’s not really magic in the world. You think there is.

          • theycallmerob

            …and mermaids. Let’s not forget about mermaids. Don’t know quite yet how we’d get down and freaky, but one issue at a time.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Son, you’re putting your hopes and dreams into a myth. Foles at Arizona couldn’t amass a career 500 record. To believe he’s going to come into the NFL and lead a Offense to it’s expected Playoff position isn’t reasonable.

            That’s not going to happen in the next 100 years if he was given that opportunity.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Son i bet you believe in bigfoot too. I’m just about done with you since you hate science I bet you’re a young earth creationist too.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Surely this isn’t the best argument to state your case. Are you tiring?

            We’re grown men, and that’s an assumption on my part, surely you have a more credible case to state in defending your position on Foles being a capable NFL Quarterback than he showed when granted ample opportunity in 2012, right?

          • Stephen Stempo

            I sent you the argument http://eaglesrewind.com/page/13/ I don’t think you’ve read it or even understood it since you scoffed at it.

          • Stephen Stempo

            READ IT and comment directly on it now. son.,

          • Andy124

            Yeah, with a crappy quarterback rating of 79.1 after 6 starts, we can safely write off Foles. Just like we could safely write off McNabb after his 60.1 quarterback rating in his rookie year where he completed less than 50% of his passes.

          • Stephen Stempo

            shhh you’ll ruin the narrative. Dutch only uses stats if the benefit him.Actually I haven’t seen dutch use stats.. at all. So it’s debatable if he actually understands them.

          • Andy124

            Why bother with stats when you have a mermaid riding a unicorn over a rainbow whispering the truth in your ear?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            McNabb has a couple credible victories, Foles has not show even the basic talents to command the pocket.

            For anyone to sit here and state a case he does lends itself to the knowledge base of that individual. I doubt the Kid never took a snap that wasn’t in the shot gun in College. It’s apparent in his footwork and weak passing.

          • Stephen Stempo

            you just keep making things up.

          • theycallmerob

            Bad syntax and double-negative aside, it took google 30 sec. to debunk your latest BS.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhaehG4uWoY 0:47 mark.

            Keep setting up those straw men, Dutch, and we’ll keep knockin’ them down.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Most of the year wasn’t in the original criteria. You’re trying to change the narrative.

          • Stephen Stempo

            “Noone can name a Quarterback who sat for a year or two and became a quality addition to an offense, other than Rivers and Rogers, and Rivers sat because of Brees, and Rogers sat because of Favre.” I can name QB’s who played poorly their rookie year and got better. Want me to?

          • illadelphia21

            Tom brady?

          • Explorer51

            Super Bowl QBs who sat…Tom Brady, Steve Young, Kurt Warner, to name just three more that came to mind immediately. I guess your self-proclaimed football expertise isn’t quite what you think…

        • Guest

          Very poignant. If Nick Foles had shown all the promise that is suggested on message boards, there is no way Vick is brought back.

          Chip Kelly has seen plenty of Nick Foles. If he was comfortable as Nick Foles as the QB of the future, he would have cut bait with Vick, signed a vet to be a backup and drafted a 3rd QB. Foles showed no more than a guy like John Skelton(less actually, Skelton actually won games).

          If Foles is as good as these message boards say and Vick is as bad, whats taking Chip Kelly so long to come to that realization? Didnt Chip see that when he watched the tape?

          • Stephen Stempo

            No it wasn’t poignant. Chip didn’t see nick foles or Vick until about a month ago. Watch all he film you want it wasn’t his film it was Andy’s film.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Nick played against Kelly’s team in the pac 12. Kelly saw his attributes up close and personal

            it’s not ever that matter, the Fact is Foles presented himself as best a career back up in the NFL, which is not a bad job in America.

            However, 70K people aren’t paying to go watch Foles take a year or two to develop in Phila. Not after 14 years of being in contention with Andy Reid and McNabb. And despite the popular opinion on this board, Fans, paying Fans aren’t willing to give Chip the great novator, 2 years to return to respectability.

          • Stephen Stempo

            “it’s not ever that matter, the Fact is Foles presented himself as best a career back up in the NFL, which is not a bad job in America.” This whole sentence is made up and you present it as a fact.

            FOLES HAD BETTER NUMBERS THAN ELI MANNING did his rookie season.

            The difference between what I said and what you said is you can look up what I said but what you said is akin to saying “because magic”

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            The Numbers that Count, is wins and losses. A high degree of the stats Foles ran up was taken from his efforts against Tampa Bay.

            Tampa Bay was 32nd, of the 32 Teams in the NFL

            How does that skip your mind?

          • Stephen Stempo

            Michael Vick SUCKS. This isn’t even an argument over Nick Foles being aweosme it’s more a statement that HE IS better than Vick. It’s not hard to be better than Vick Most of the league is better than Vick.

            You want to ask dumb question dutch fine here’s one. Name the last QB to improve his career numbers after the age of 32. and win. I’ll wait.Then name the QB’s who have improved their numbers after their rookie season and compare those two lists.

            I mean you won’t do that because it involves actual research, pal, not just relying on the fact that you aren’t nearly as smart as you think you are.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I can count you among the Eagles followers here who also believe Foles is better than Cam Newton.

            If this wasn’t such fun there wouldn’t be a reason to continue.

            Any position that states Foles is par or on a level with Mike Vick or any other NFL Starter is laughable.

            It’s absolutely a tragedy for anyone claiming to have any where with all about Football to make such an asinine claim.

            There’s not one analysis who has played in the NFL or had a credible College Career willing to make such a ridiculous claim.

          • Stephen Stempo

            I asked you a question son. do the research or shut up

          • theycallmerob

            I’m afraid you’ll have better luck arguing with the new Eagles UDFA, Trash Can

            (see Tommy’s most recent post, “OTA”) http://igglesblitz.com/

          • Andy124

            credibility–;

          • Stephen Stempo

            Just defend your arguments i’m begging you

          • theycallmerob

            Come now, senor Stempo.

            (putting on my hypocrite hat)

            Let’s (generally) try to leave the ad hominem attacks to the ESPN comment sections. Don’t fall into the dark, goblin magic trap he cast.

          • Stephen Stempo

            yeah sorry fixed it. the son thing is annoying.

          • Stephen Stempo
          • Stephen Stempo

            I especially love the very end of this graph. Don’t you dutch.

          • Phils Goodman

            Misleading info if not put in context. There’s no era adjustment there. 2012 was a significantly easier passing environment than even 5 years ago.

            If you look at Pro-Football Reference’s era adjusted passing stats, Foles’ rookie season rates above Tim Couch and is comparable to Byron Leftwich. He was not close to Cam Newton, Joe Flacco or Jay Cutler. The statistical argument for Foles is not the most encouraging one.

          • JofreyRice

            Adjustment for the era noted, it’s certainly a more swaying argument than “everyone in my section will stop buying tickets if Nick Foles is the QB”, or “Foles should have been better because RG3, Luck and Wilson were stars” or “I’m an expert that watches Pee Wee football” or whatever other incarnation Dutch’s deflated hot air balloon of an argument is taking. As I mentioned, I think it’s a very real possibility neither one of them is going to be good enough, and there’s a false binary at work here, to say that Foles showed absolutely nothing and he’s just not good enough is premature.

          • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

            Yeah, I’m not here to defend Dutch’s train wreck. I just saw the same data being spammed in here repeatedly without a shred of context, as if it was proof of something. Foles’ numbers are inconclusive. That means the assessment is going have to rely on scouting-type insights — just not ones by Dutch.

            I do agree that Foles was pretty slow with the football though. I do remember being worried that Foles could lose the huddle last year because of his suicide passes. Vick isn’t the only QB who is going to have to make extensive adjustments with ball delivery.

          • cliff henny

            dont think anyone was making a point that foles is a finished product, just deserves a chance. dutch wants to take him out back, put a bullet in his head, remove fingertips and teeth then bury him in shallow grave in the pocano’s

          • Andy124

            How does anybody give a down vote to a graph???

          • eaglepete

            Spec teams and Brown fumbles lost at least 2 games for Foles all alone.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Akers missing a 29 yd, and 41 yd, field goal loss that playoff game against the Packers in 2010.

            That didn’t absolve Vick, so why should Brown’s fumbles absolve Foles?

            I’m not sold on Vick being the QB to lead the Eagles back to respectability, but I damn sure know that Foles doesn’t have the moxie or experience in winning to do the job based on the evidence he left after 2012

          • Stephen Stempo
          • theycallmerob

            You’re going to wear out your CTRL and V keys.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Why won’t he read!! I’m not even making the case that Foles is joe montana just that his “body of work” in 2012 actually PROVES he deserves a chance. Dutch doesn’t think he deserves a chance, which is insipid.

          • Eagles4Life

            The funny part about the continual posting of all this “evidence” is that the graphs show the unpredictability of the sample set as to how they actually pan out. So, while yes, Foles is up there “high” on the graph, could you argue that someone higher on the list is actually a worse QB than someone lower? I’d say you could….i.e. Leftwich vs. Eli. Pointing at the graph as proof or research is almost as imbecilic as you all proclaim Dutch’s arguments to be. The proof is “in the pudding” and all of Foles attributes including the bad footwork, decision-making, and that wind-up throw wouldn’t exactly have me screaming from the rooftops that he should be the QB of the future. Like someone else said already, if that were the case, Vick would not have been brought back, and I don’t care how much “value” Barkley had in the 4th…I sincerely doubt he would be an Eagle if everyone were sold on Foles.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Sigh again not the point. Dutch argues that Foles came in and basically was GOD AWEFUL. That he had no leadership, looked lost and is basically an IQ point or two away from being a retard. The Graph isn’t to point out the Foles WILL be great just that he is in the league of some QB’s who have panned out and some who haven’t but all of whom deserved the chance they got. I’m sorry if that escapes people of a limited capacity for non-linear thinking.

            The point isn’t that Foles is great it’s that he DIDN’T SUCK.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Point of the matter is that not a one of them have an actual case to support that Foles is a credible QB for the NFL.

          • Stephen Stempo

            YES WE DO, I mean you’re just flat out wrong. HAVE you read the link i sent you it’s not the point that Foles will be DAN MARINO. Just that he’s better than average and didn’t suck nearly as bad as you believe, if he sucked at all. http://eaglesrewind.com/2013/01/15/more-on-foles/

          • Will Holden

            With Jason Peter’s out, Jason Kelce out, Todd Herreman’s out, Danny Watkin’s, DJax out, McCoy out, mind you all out of the starting line up then foles starts to play? And you have the audacity to say he suks or make any kind of a judgement on his abilities? Wake up….Vick,McCoy,DJax said to hell with this when the O-Line minus all the starter’s just sukked!!! Yeah they all quit!!! That’s the reality!!! At least Nick didn’t quit or lay down when the going got tough!!!

          • illadelphia21

            When did Vick, Lesean, and Desean quit on the team or say, ‘to hell w/ this’? Yes Lesean had 840 yards in 12 games @ 4.2 a clip, before being injured and then held out at the end of the season. And many if not all fans agreed that it would be utterly stupid for him to return and risk further injury. Hell he did all that while having a weird case of the fumbles and what many believed was a down year for him.

            Vick just played like crap but I don’t recall him ever giving up on the team. Actually Reid made the call to keep him on the bench. Yet w/ all the forced throws and hits he took, whether they were his fault or the OL’s fault, how can you quantify that he gave up? You could have just said he sucked and that would have been a way more justifiable statement.

            And as for Jackson…granted the kid only had 2 td’s and 2 100+ yard games, yet he still managed to have 700 yards in 11 games, was well on his way to 1000+ yard season, and only 1 drop before being injured. And he did all this with horrendous qb play for throughout majority of his games played. Oh yeah, and there were several times where he was actually taking on a db and blocking him for the run. And I’m not talking bout jeremey maclin, just get in the way or hold the guy and get flagged. I’m talking bout a proper block, get your hands under the defenders pads and keep driving your legs. But yeah he, said to hell w/ it and gave up too.

            Nick Foles was the only guy that kept and had a never quit attitude!!! LMFBO

            That statement of yours is just as bad as some of Dutch’s statements.

          • illadelphia21

            Damn…I thought I just saw the greatest post on this page moments ago but now you take the top spot. Big ups!!!

          • illadelphia21

            Nope…seriously…it’s not.

          • Coatesvillain

            Do these stats really prove what you think they do? It looks like cherry picking to me. Taking raw stats and putting them into a spreadsheet and creating graphs isn’t the same as analyzing the players.

            I would be more willing to believe numbers produced by Football Outsiders than these regular numbers. This is a very unscientific way to judge QBs.

          • Broadcasting Wisdom

            Judging Nick Foles on his Win-Loss record during six games of his rookie season when he was playing behind a decimated O-Line and absolutely terrible defense makes no sense. I flew down to Jerry World for the Dallas game (22-34, 245 yards, 1 TD), and was there in person for the home Washington game (32-48, 345 yards, 1 TD) and Carolina game (16-21, 119, 0 TD). Foles can’t do anything about the Dunlap/Bell circus of holding penalties and missed blocks that force him to throw it away or dump it down to his outlet short of the first down. He also can’t hold onto the ball for Bryce Brown or make sure there aren’t blatant missed coverages in the secondary. What he can do is take a snap, see over his O-Line to read the defense, and make a quick, accurate throw to his target. Did he get baited by complex NFL coverages into some ill-advised throws? Absolutely, just like every other QB does, especially in their first year.

            With even a mediocre O-Line and defense, Foles at least gets to 3-3, or 4-2 in those 6 games, and then it is a much different narrative about him entering this season.

            With a top-15 defense, Peters/Mathis/Kelce/Herremans/Johnson on the O-line, and a RB who holds on to the ball, Foles absolutely can go 10-6 this year.

          • JofreyRice

            I’m not even really a Foles fan, but Dutch reading the last rites on his career after a few games is beyond ridiculous, and you could teach a course in logic with the examples of fallacies he’s laying all over this blog post. All he needs are some examples of Venn diagrams, and he’d be ABET accredited.

            Anyway, your post reminded me of an article from Pro Football Focus about the % of sacks they credited as being on the QB. Vick was the #7 most self-sacking QB, where Foles ranked #25.

            https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/20/neils-nfl-daily-may-20-2013/

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            So that’s a case where it wasn’t obvious the pressure from the rush.

          • JofreyRice

            No. It’s a case where he held onto the ball too long and moved into a sack, rather than just having one of his offensive linemen get beat immediately.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Could that be related to indecisiveness and the inability to process information and make sufficient decisions?

            My some counts, he was only sacked 20 times in 235 passing attempts, and on the last sack racked out of the game into the mash unit.

          • JofreyRice

            You mean, in regards to Vick? Yeah, I think that’s probably the case. I think Vick spent a lot of years playing sandlot football and moving around after the play broke down trying to make magic. He can’t do that anymore. If you look at that list, some pretty good guys held onto the ball as long/longer than Vick and “self-sacked”–Aaron Rodgers, RWilson, Kaep–but those guys all had the big plays from doing that. Vick just can’t do that anymore, yet he hasn’t shown the skillset to get it out quickly, either.

            Foles, as a rookie, had better pocket presence than Vick. He “self-sacked” much less often. What does his getting injured have to do with that? It’s important that you stick to the specific point you’re trying to argue.

          • illadelphia21

            Finally after reading through this whole page I see a great post. THANK YOU!

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            To say Vick doesn’t have a quick release Or that Foles showed good pocket presence is proof you don’t have a clue what you’re watching.

          • JofreyRice

            I’m looking at the post I just made above, and I don’t see anything criticizing Michael Vick’s release. I know I’m just a soccer fan that learned everything about football from Madden, but I have a serious question, do you know what “quick release” refers to? It has nothing to do with time from when the ball is snapped to when the QB throws it, which for Vick & Foles both, is among the highest in the league–partially a function of Reid’s slow developing vertical routes. “Quick release” means once the QB identifies his target, he transitions from a “ready” position with the ball in his throwing hand, through his mechanics, and releases the ball.

            Sure, Vick, is good at that; he probably has a quicker release than Foles. But that’s a different argument. The argument I’m making is that Vick can no longer freelance successfully to make plays, and I have objective proof that supports that. As opposed to early in his career, when he extended plays, quite often, the results were negative for the team. Foles felt and avoided pressure better than Vick. That’s just all there is to it.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            You’ll have more luck trying to piss out a grease fire than convincing the almighty Dutch that doesn’t know everything. Apparently the worlds greatest talent evaluator has nothing better to do than comment on a blog.

          • Stephen Stempo

            Google logical fallacies.

          • Anebriated
          • Token

            Ive gone through the numbers before on here. Compare Foles numbers in his first 7 starts or whatever it was, to other what are considered top young QBs in the league. Its very comparable.

            That doesnt mean he will be good or bad. But it does mean its too early to tell. Hes no better or worse then more young QBs were at the same point. You cant teach awareness in the pocket. Making a side step here or there. I think that is a key. I liked what I saw out of Foles in that area for the most part.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Trent Edward should have been the QB when Vick went down if the judgement was solely determined by the pre Season games.

          • JofreyRice

            So now you know more about QBs than Andy Reid & Chip Kelly? Come on, dude.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            How many QB did Andy Reid draft who amounted to much of anything in the NFL, including at this point Foles.

            As I recall McNabb was the only candidate to have a serviceable career whom Andy Drafted.

            Yea. I know as much as Reid and I’m not impressed with Kelly at this point where QBs are concerned.

          • Stephen Stempo

            So wait. We can’t make arguments about Foles because we have no experience with QB”s like some national anouncers and writers, but you can make arguments about Foles because you “know as much as Reid about QB’s and probably more than chip?” Are you on meth?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            You can make arguments about Foles for any mythical reason you’d like.

            What has Reid actually shown in his ability to identify a QB with potential to develop aside from McNabb and in my opinion, Pat Shumur was the key component in McNabbs development.

          • JofreyRice

            lol

          • illadelphia21

            Wholly sh!t…I didn’t no Foles had all that adversity!!! I’m glad That just makes me so glad that Vick didn’t have to deal w/ the ‘Dunlap/Bell circus’ or that he didn’t have to deal w/ Shady fumbling, or that he didn’t have to make sure that there were no blatant missed secondary assignments. Yeah you just blew my mind!!!

            Oh wait he did.
            This message was brought to you by the people sick of the excessive Vick hate/love and the excessive Foles hate/love.

          • Broadcasting Wisdom

            My message only addressed the excessive Foles hate previously spewed in prior comments. If projecting that a QB can go 10-6 behind a strong O-line and defense is “excessive love,” then I have underestimated the pessimism of Eagles fans.

            In any event, Vick did not have to deal with the catastrophe that Foles inherited. Let me know what Vick’srecord was after Kelce went down, and especially after Herremans went down. Or just recall his final game (take 30 seconds to read this play by play): http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012123006/2012/REG17/eagles@giants#menu=gameinfo&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

            The key point: Foles as a rookie with a tattered O-Line tossed into the fire performed better than Vick, a 10-year veteran with a healthier O-Line. That doesn’t mean Foles is the next Tom Brady, it just means he should start ahead of Vick.

          • illadelphia21

            Point taken, as it is now being adjusted and not based on your earlier points. ie. Foles had a worse situation than Vick, when before you listed situations he had which were similar to Vicks.

            My whole point is that, some address the excessive Foles hate w/ excessive Foles love. Both are wrong. And THE SAME GOES for the Vick hate and love.

            Yes Foles it could be inferred and is probable that Foles would have had a better rec than Vick w/ a competent or ‘strong’ line and defense. But to say 10-6. Now your just guessing and starting to use a little bit of Dutch logic. Vick had no Peters, had Danny Watkins, and Todd was not having a good season by any means and had that same crappy D. Oh and didnt Kelce get hurt in week 2, Nah that played no part in Vick’s performance!!! Yet I will not dare try to project what his rec could have been. However since we are playing the woulda/coulda/shoulda/ game I can tell you this. If the D would have not given up at least two, but I’m really thinking 3, 4th quarter leads last year Vick’s record as the starter would have been better. Making his win/loss rec 5-5 or @ best 6-4. That I can say w/ certainty…your Foles 10-6, you can’t unless it’s crystal ball certainty.

            I’ll do you 1 better in the game of coulda/woulda/shoulda. In 2011 if the D didn’t give up 5 4th qrt leads the eagles and Vick woulda/coulda/shoulda been 13-5 instead of 8-8 and been a high playoff seed, thusly, eliminating most if not all of the arguing for Team Vick and Team Foles in 2012 and now.

          • Broadcasting Wisdom

            That is groundbreaking analysis that projecting a record for an upcoming season is more difficult than reviewing last year’s games to consider which games the QB should have won with a proper team assembled around him. It is also easier to identify last week’s Power Ball numbers than this week’s Power Balls, but alas that doesn’t get us anywhere. We can agree Vick and Foles both should have won more games.

            What I emphasize is that Foles, in his rookie season, successfully performed numerous essential NFL QB tasks that Vick, in his 10th+ season, did not and cannot. Vick has a stronger arm with much greater quickness/elusiveness, but what makes QBs great in the NFL is not mobility or who can throw the ball the farthest, it’s an elite ability to recognize blitzes and coverages and unload the ball quickly and accurately (or throw the ball away without taking a sack/throw a pick). Vick will never have that elite ability. He can improve and become proficient, but will never be elite.

            Conversely, Foles is 10 years younger and undeniably has better accuracy on all throws (at least for 40 yards and under), and has better processing capacity and decision making skills than Vick. I’d rather see if Kelly can develop those skills Foles exemplified as a rookie into the elite level with 16 games of experience and 1st ream reps all season, than tread water with Vick for another year. To clarify, arguing that Foles is a better QB than Vick does not mean Foles is a top 10 QB or that Vick is a terrible QB who has no place in the NFL. It just means Foles should start over Vick.

          • illadelphia21

            Got it. That’s where I think you Foles lovers and Vick lovers go wrong. You guys simply can’t support 1 w/o trying to rip apart the other. And mostly when people do that, you included, they cherry pick stats, and come up w/ excuses, whether legit or not, all the while ignoring the fact that those same stats, excuses, and situations can be used to support the person they are trying to rip apart. And that is what makes the argument totally ridiculous.

            Do I like Vick and want to see him bounce back more than I want to see Foles start…yes. Do I hate everything bout Foles…no. Until Foles shows that he can throw better when it’s not 5-10 passing routes I will most likely not want him as the starter. But that’s just how I feel about all qb’s in general. I never liked Kafka nor Kolb either. But I digress.

            Stop the excessive Vick Love/hate and Foles love/hate was the point of my original message. And it took you 3 attempts to tone down your rhetoric for 1 over the other before bring some reasonable sh!t. Don’t be like Dutch or Geagle or even Stephen who’s living and dying by 2 obscure graphs!!! Look forward to talking to you again.

          • illadelphia21

            Well if you want to use that weak argument, then I could say that in 2011 the defense lost 5 games for Vick w/ help from Maclin in the San Fran game. And in 2012 the defense lost at least 2 or 3 for him. Or let’s make it even more weaker and simpler…Reid and Marty lost them all. Smh. Please if your gonna support Foles or Vick don’t bring weak arguements for 1 and not the other.

          • Andy124

            Wins and losses are about the last number that count when evaluating a quarterback.
            And how did Vick do against the Saints 31st ranked pass defense?

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            You can believe that if you wish, there are 70k paying customers at the Linc who wouldn’t agree with you for the price of admission.

            Chances are if Foles, or Kolb were the starter in Philly and the team wasn’t winning and going to the playoffs Blackouts in the local television broadcasting market would be the trend again in Phila.

            What makes this so much fun is that in Phila, you guys calling for Vick to be benched or traded are in the minority by a large margin.

          • Will Holden

            Seen enough of Vick in 12 years that say at almost 33 years of age it’s over……Mike Vick is not the Savior everyone wanted him to be……Mike Vick went 3-9 in 2012 before he got hurt last year, not impressed with his lack of skills to win games, wake up to reality…….

          • Stephen Stempo

            he won’t answer that he doesn’t answer direct questions. It’s hard.

          • Andy124

            Wins and losses are what count? I guess we could also write off Troy Aikman after his rookie season then too.

          • illadelphia21

            Stephen can you please stop harping on the link and stats so much. 1st the link only shows 2 graphs which hardly can begin to tell the full story on Foles and the eagles from last year.

            Secondly, stats can be skewed and cherry picked to support many differing sides of arguments. Like I can say Foles is not a better qb than Vick, whether I believe it or not. What stats would I use to support that… Well 5 int’s in 6 starts, 8 fumbles in 6 starts, 1 game won in 6 starts. Yet by doing this I leave out so many factors and other things that may have contributed to these #’s. like a sh!tty OL, a team that had given up, horrible coaching, and inversely, the fact that his int #’s could have been way worse w/ at least 3 int’s that were right in defenders hands yet dropped. Would it be fair of me to say that based on the amount of times Foles was sacked (20) that he holds on to the ball way to long, or cant read defences, probably not. but just another way stats, that you seem to cling to so dearly DO NOT, tell the whole tale. THIS IS NOT BASEBALL!!! if it were then I’d agree w/ mostly anything anyone said based on stats. THIS IS FOOTBALL. there’s more to the game than stats, a hell of a lot more.

            And Is Eli Manning really your litmus test for Foles??? Really Eli…that slack jawed, close my eyes and throw to win a Super Bowl, mouth breather. Eli, for as much as he has had his many WTF games and plays, has always had several intangible and inquantifiable traits, sometimes called the “it factor” that has behooved analyst, coaches, and fans alike. Like, taking hits that would put most qb’s down for the count yet getting up like nothing happened, like making several throws a season that should no way be attempted let alone completed, like playing like crap for a full 3 quarters, but yet when the game is on the line, looking like the best qb to ever play the game, on numerous occasions. You could have said Foles has better #’s than Payton when rookie years are compared. Yet that would be once again using stats as the end all/be all, and would be skewed cause Payton played in more games and it still doesn’t mean Foles will ever be anything close to Payton just as it has no baring on whether he could surpass him either.

          • Andy124

            I love this argument… “That stats show Foles was pretty good by rookie standards, so please stop using stats!”
            Classic.

          • illadelphia21

            Please learn how to read. Thanks.

        • eaglepete

          you sure dont give Foles much of a shot after that small sample size on that mess of a team for being a rookie. All this is fine and good just admit you are simply going by an eye test with your exceptional NFL scout skills. I mean we all have expert talent evaluation skills, no ones better right.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Foles has a body of work to explore, both with the Eagles and at Arizona.

            He’s wasn’t much better at Arizona and his record at Arizona speaks directly to his talents and accomplishments.

          • Stephen Stempo

            You’re right. You’re just not a very good explorer.

  • Stephen Stempo

    So I wasn’t going to mention this but it is interesting. Take everything I’m about to say with a grain if salt.

    Saturday the eagles did like a thing that was like 90 bucks and you got to go in and hang out with some assistant coaches and break down film and run some routes and meet some players ( it was dorenbos and clay harbor and some other guy). Anyway my brothers fiancé got this for him as a birthday present ( awesome birthday present btw). So they toured novacare and the weight room (which is apparently now space age under chip) and look around ( harbor deflected any lb questions ). So while they were walking around my bro noticed a whiteboard labeled “unofficial depth chart” listed Johnson at RT herramans at RG and James Casey was listed at FB celek at TE. What he thought was most interesting was that Foles was listed with the ones. He also got a little binder with a similar depth chart with foles listed 1 and Vick 2. Again take that with a grain of salt. It could just have been a specific practice period or formation for upcoming OTAS. I mention Lane and herramans just to show it’s not like the end of last years depth chart.

    Just interesting that this report coincides with what he had told me.

    • Jordan England

      Pretty cool. Is it on certain days?

  • Septhinox

    Hmmm…quite a bit different from the brash, “This is my team” statements.

  • Johnny Domino

    Maybe Barkley is getting more reps than either of them at closed practices.

    Duhnt, duhnt, duuuuuuh!

    • http://www.facebook.com/jakwaggoner Jack Waggoner

  • Lonnie Southworth

    As a lifetime Duck fan, you guys better throw out your standard NFL logic. The best performers will play, your name and what you’ve done in the past means very little. Kelly is concerned with what can you do now!

    • cliff henny

      46 active and guarenteed contracts will have some say, but hopefully he fights that battle in off-season, not during.

    • BrickSquadMonopoly

      Great to know. How it should be.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    The comment section here is actually terrible these days. I love this blog and comments used to be one of the best parts, but a handful of individuals are making it terrible. Hope Sheil and Tim can clean this place up.

  • Coatesvillain

    How come when people trumpet Nick Foles’ stats they never point out his splits?

    We’re familiar with Nick Foles’ overall numbers of 161-265 for 1,699 yards (60.9%), 6 TD, 5 INT.

    I’m not going to say that he can’t be a starting QB, but the splits tell an interesting story:

    Behind Line of Scrimmage: 54-66 for 349 yards (81.8%)
    Passes thrown 1-10 yards: 68-106 for 567 yards (64.2%)

    So that means about 65% of Foles passes were thrown from 0-10 yards. In this 65% of his throws were approximately 76% of his completions and 54% of his yardage.

    According to his splits when Foles had to throw 11+ yards these were his numbers: 37-90 (41%) for 770 yards.

    • Eagles4Life

      Another voice of reason…bless you, sir! (or madam)

    • Brent E. Sulecki

      im curious how worse or better MV was by comparison

    • Explorer51

      Not to make excuses but look at his receiving options in the games he started…Jackson was out for almost all Foles’ starts and Maclin even missed a game. The starters for one game were Avant and Cooper, hardly deep threats. And with that O-line, none of the Birds’ QBs had much time to allow deep patterns to develop. Finally, the chart doesn’t take into account receiver drops vs bad throws. Statistics, in any endeavor, always need context.

      • Coatesvillain

        I agree with you. Without context stats are mostly useless. When a player has limited playing time like Nick Foles you can make stats tell any story you want them too (especially raw stats).

        So this isn’t an indictment against him. These numbers are just a step more specific than his overall numbers (which can be manipulated to tell something else completely). Overall at this point in his career the heaviest part of our evaluation with Foles is what we saw with our eyes.