The Michael Vick-Chip Kelly Conundrum

If Michael Vick is going to be Chip Kelly‘s guy, he will have to change. There is just no getting around that.

We have referenced multiple times in this space  Kelly’s philosophy on the quarterback position, as explained during a coaching clinic while at Oregon.

The job of a quarterback is simple. He has to “let it happen, and not make it happen.” We want to move forward. That is a concept you have to make your team understand. The cardinal sin at our place is the quarterback sack. We want the ball out of the quarterback’s hands in 1.5 seconds. That does not mean holding the ball until 2.5, waiting for someone to get open.

Last season, Vick held onto the ball for an average of 3.07 seconds, according to Pro Football Focus. (A study done by Jimmy Kempski produced similar results.) Only three QBs – Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick and RGIII — held onto it longer in 2012, per PFF.

How can Kelly’s offense work if his quarterback is keeping the ball in his hands twice as long as he wants him to? This much seems obvious: Vick is going to have to adapt. Kelly believes the 32-year-old can do it.

“I think there is a lot more to Michael,” Kelly said back in February. “I think quarterbacks are a byproduct of their experience.  But to sit here and say I understood the system that Michael’s been in whether he’s with the Falcons under Coach [Dan] Reeves or here, that depends on the system that you run.  Some of the systems that they run they don’t ask him to get the ball out quick.  Do I think he can get the ball out quick?  I think he’s got an unbelievable release.  It’s up and out and it’s quick.”

It is right to bring up Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg‘s offensive design. Plays  were often very slow to develop, particularly when Vick was under center, and even when the offensive line was in ruins. That was intentional, according to Trent Dilfer, who said the coaching staff was trying to cater to the quarterback’s strengths.

“It’s going to be interesting,” said Dilfer of the Vick-Kelly union. “Mike’s had most of his success on extended drops and longer-developing plays. He’s very accurate down the field, he has a strong arm and throws the ball real well.  It’s those deep crosses, those chunk yardage plays where he really excels. Oregon did not do a lot of that. [Offensive coordinator Pat] Shurmur has not done a lot of that over his career. Their roots are in a quick decision-making passing game. What I call a first completion passing game. They don’t wait for something better to happen. Michael has had most of his success doing the converse of that.”

Dilfer believes it’s a comfort thing above all else. Whether at Virginia Tech, Atlanta or in Philadelphia, Vick’s “signature football” has come while extending the play. There will surely be some room for that in Kelly’s system — allowing the creator to create — but it doesn’t sound like he wants to make a habit out of it.

If Vick is at his best when extending the play, and  Kelly wants a quarterback who gets the ball out quickly, where does that leave us?

Vick  spent the offseason getting ready for his latest challenge. The 11-year vet simulated running a super up-tempo offense; practiced the read-option; added muscle to his frame; and even did some boxing training to learn how to better avoid the big hit. A concerted effort was made to speed things up across the board. Early returns on the practice field have been positive, but they are very early returns.

“I don’t know what he’s been asked to do in the past, but that’s our job as coaches where he can get the ball out quickly, because we have some play makers on the offensive side of the ball that are going to flourish when we get the ball in their hands,” said Kelly. “So that’s on us as coaches.  [It’s] not on the quarterback.”

But ultimately, it is.

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  • Brent E. Sulecki

    ball out quickly…Foles and Barkley….lets go

    • GEagle

      Just the thought of Vick having to get the ball out 50% faster, the first year in a brand new offense, is a friggin nightmare..asking Vick to make very quick decisions could result in more turnovers if that’s even possile lol…How many times have we heard the excuse: “Last year he was learning a brand new offense, so he is going to be better the next year”???
      look, Vick is like that ridiculously gorgeous woman, who is just so attractive, yet is a complete whore and trashy person, and every man wants to be the one to change her..lol Chip, I know your life is football, but man to man, YOU CAN’T TURN A HOE INTO A HOUSE WIFE!!! Lol..

      Vicks Physical ability makes him so enticing to coaches who watch him from a far, and have all thought he wasn’t being used the right way…like everyone else, Chip will have to learn the hard way..but that’s ok..because we are fortunate enough, that chip is not stubborn, he will not give Vick the long leash(seriously no pun intended lol) to make a zillion mistakes and hurt the team the way Andy did…but more importantly, we are fortunate that Chip has a practice style that will really put Vick through the ringer, and make it blatantly obvious if He can or cAnt be the guy..you can Not Fake it in chips practice style…A 32yr old will really have to be sharp and command this offense if we are going to procrastinate developing our young gunners?.and while Chip is learning the hard way why Vick can’t b his QB, Vicks veteran presence will put more pressure on Foles to overcome…and if the kid is the real deal, he will be better off having had to overcome Vick, and the pressure that a Big name veteran, who has the leg speed that Foles doesn’t have, will bring to the QB duel.

      • Brent E. Sulecki

        thats right. every coach looks wantingly at Mike. wanting to make him into the weapon he can be. but the process of information is the number one thing holding him back..and hes 33. not gettin much better at that skill..and the others are slowly leaving.

        • Token

          exactly right. For whatever reason coaches fall in love. Thinking this guy can change now is crazy.

          Hes a old, dumb, injury prone turnover machine on the field. Theres not much to like.

          • Richard Colton

            there’s so much to like! 70 yd bombs on a frozen rope that hits the WR in stride. the ability to escape and extend a play. forcing the defense to commit a player to spy the QB.

            the problem is MV7 never demonstrated the ability to run an offense. He’s a one trick pony who could never adjust once the defenses caught up to him. It was never real – we got, what, five good games out of him? I’m done with Vick. And I can’t understand why Kelly is keeping him around.

          • Token

            Hes always been a great athlete but a horrible quarterback. Nothing has changed since he came into the league. Even though every offseason we have to read how much he has changed his game.

        • B-West

          Taking it one step further, its a little unnerving that Chip seems intrigued by Mike, right?

          • Brent E. Sulecki

            It is unnerving for sure. but i think that will infatuation he as for mike will fade quickly when in preseason or some game he cant deliver the ball on time, and ends up with 2 turnovers in 5 possesions. i think chip will realize he was wrong where big red wasnt ever the one to do that.
            thats why im hoping the young boys show their stuff on the field and win that job, despite Chips man crush

          • B-West

            Hopefully on both points…. A quick hook for Mike if he isn’t protecting the ball and one of the young guys stepping their game up.

          • Fink

            Ehh.. Like Sulecki said, every coach in the league is intrigued by him – he’s a physical freak. But I don’t think Chip starts a QB he is ‘intrigued by’ over a QB that he thinks can win more (or even the same amount of) games.

          • atb124

            Yes. Yes it is.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    Those other guys that held the ball more…um are pretty damn good. CK.RW.RG..all have pretty nice wheels. and by most peoples thoughts pretty intelligent on where the ball should go. Vick…eh, not so much. and hes not beating people around that edge any longer

    • Beavis

      What’s most interesting is those three young QBs are all the next Mike Vick. I wonder if they will endure similar ups and downs over the next few seasons as their bodies start to slow down. The problem is that Vick has not adapted to the aging process and his coaches have not realized the need to design different plays. I’m not convinced Chip won’t try something new to see if this team can succeed with Vick under center. If it doesn’t work out, they have two guys waiting in the wings.

      • Brent E. Sulecki

        i hope he does do something different..anything is better than the 23 turnovers in 11 games or whatever the stat was. im all for different with mike vick. i agree on the 3 young guys..i assume they will have their fair share of setbacks with their style of play..i mean rg3 already has. the others need to adapt to a more traditional passing game with the ability to live on the edge and extend plays..Kap is terrific at that..and accurate and strong armed. i think wilson will have a tough year duplicating his success from last season.

        • GEagle

          The turnovers were terrible…just as alarming is that he had his entire offense, with the exception of Peters, and he could barely put up 20pts…The man has had all the opportunity in the world, yet only put up a QBR of 80% of better For a couple seasons, and has NEVER done it two seasons in a row!!..He has played 16games only 1 time..and didn’t even survive two preseasons lol

          having a quick release and not holding onto the ball, are apples and oranges…Doesn’t Vick have small hands?

          • Brent E. Sulecki

            I would think so..small frame and all..Foles and Barkley i know have packs of bannana’s for hands.

      • pkatz

        I think what’s most interesting is not that they’re all “the next Mike Vick” but that they’re all 1st (or 2nd) year players who are still on the steep part of the learning curve and getting used to the NFL.

        Mike Vick should know what to expect from defenses by now.

    • PaoliBulldog

      Ask Shady how slow Vick has gotten….

      • Brent E. Sulecki

        shady beat him last year…whats ur point. shady is a 4.5 rb.

        • GEagle

          shady just gave an interview and actually sounded serious that Vick jumped and got a head start, shady almost caught him at the end, and for public impression/excitement the team went crazy and said Mike won..but now Mike won’t give him a rematch….If anyone actually wanted the truth about the race, they would ask Nick Foles lol

    • theycallmerob

      I think it is more akin to their inexperience, and designed schemes to take advantage of their running abilities. I bet all of their numbers come down this year as they used to NFL defenses and making reads. Vick’s speed is still most definitely there.

  • B-West

    I can’t help but connect the success on deep drops to Vick’s stature. Hes simply too short to see the field well from directly behind his line. Also, longer plays allow the throwing lanes to develop which also helps his ability to see the field.

    • GEagle

      Now all our lineman are basically 6’4 and taller

    • http://twitter.com/pjcostello Paul Costello

      How tall is Russell Wilson…? Right. Shorter than Michael Vick. QBs don’t throw OVER their offensive lineman, but between them, through the passing lanes they create. While you’re right that Vick couldn’t “see” his receivers, that’s also the crux of Vick’s problem — being a “sight” QB and not a “system” QB. He has to see his receivers in order to throw them the ball, rather than knowing where they are/ will be WITHOUT having to see them.

      • B-West

        Was Russell Wilson running short drop offensive plays from under center? The question isn’t whether or not a short QB can succeed, but rather if a short QB can succeed in what Chip Kelly wants them to do. (And of course what Chip Kelly’s offense looks like is still a mystery. But if we can’t speculate, what else are we going to do all summer?)

        I do agree on Mike not being able to anticipate throws. Hes always just a tick slow getting rid of the ball, and its the reason his career hasn’t been more of a success.

      • Bdawkbdawk

        I understand your retort, but you offer a very poor example given that Wilson held on to the ball longer than Vick last season. Maybe Brees would be a better illustration – although he is only middle of the pack in terms of release.
        It’s a bit frustrating to listen to people criticize Vick for his intelligence or other difficult-to-quantify and difficult-to-verify issues. Sure, maybe Vick has a low football IQ or maybe it was scheme, or supporting cast, or just a well prepared defense. There just seems to be too many vairables, and too little information. And the “listen to them talk test” just seems to reinforce preconceived assumptions/stereotypes.
        It is fair to evaluate Vick on his performance (which has appeared to be pretty poor the past two years). If someone wants to go through the trouble of breaking down tape to see missed opportunities or bad reads then I am willing to listen. But the “Vick will never be good because of his head” mantra has run its course.

        • nicksaenz1

          Who needs to break down tape to prove this? Arizona, week 3, in the red zone, on the goal line. Kerry Rhodes lined up to the left with NO ONE in front of him. Easy blitz not diagnosed by Vick. Result: Sack, fumble, 98yd fumble return TD. That pretty much makes the entire case in one simple point.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Thank you nicksaenz1. That is precisely the type of knee-jerk poorly thought out criticism, that I come to Eagles 24/7 to avoid. Watch the play again. Do you know the protection? Or the defensive scheme? How about Avant’s responsabilites after Vick splits him out wide? Perhaps you know Mccoy’s assignment. There are just too many variables and not enough information.
            Mccoy’s assignment seems to be of particular importance seeing as he picks up the delayed block up the center instead of the outside blitz by Kerry Rhodes (the closer defender and the only one from Vick’s blindside). To the average viewer it seems to be a well drawn up blitz and a poor decision by Mccoy. But this analysis is not definitive. We still need either inside information or a breakdown of someone who has watched enough game tape to assign blame.
            Or we could just yell and blame it on QB. Tell me again how much smarter you are than Vick and everyone else.

          • Richard Colton

            It was Andy Reid’s fault. He needed to do a better job and put his players in a better position.

            Since Andy never once (ok – once with Akers) called a player out for missing an on field assignment, we’ll never know who was at fault for a particular play. It may have been Vick’s fault, or, like you said, might have been a blown blocking assignment or read. That doesn’t abrogate Vick of responsibility here. He had his chance, he didn’t get it done. If Chip wants to see what MV can do, I’m willing to wait. But I want to move on.

          • nicksaenz1

            I just had a nightmarish flashback to an Andy Reid post-game conference…

          • Nicholas Disilvestro

            I agree. I think his athletic ability intrigued Chip enough to keep him around to see what he has, but in reality he is on a very short leash. Even if he starts I cant see Chip letting him crap the bed more then 3 games in a row. Its obvious hes not our future qb and the last thing this team needs is to go into next off season with a giant question mark at qb.

          • nicksaenz1

            Thank you for advising me watch it again. It, again, confirms that Michael Vick didn’t even identify a blitzer who did not try to hide it at all. Vick directs Avant to the slot to start, the offense is set at 3 seconds, and the ball is snapped at 6 seconds. In that 3 second window, he did not look left, he did not identify a blitzer, or bother to make sure apparent pass rushers were accounted for. We don’t need to know anything about the protection called or Shady’s/Avant’s responsibilities to know that Vick did nothing presnap to help anyone, namely himself. Bad play call? It was Andy/Marty, probably. Could Shady have gone to the other side? Sure, because didn’t appear to know what he was doing going to his right. But the fact of the matter is that during the cadence, Vick does NOTHING to identify a blitzer (would have helped Shady), the MIKE, or make sure the 6 possible pass rushers (those lined up between and just outside the tackles, in this case) are accounted for by the 6 possible blockers available to block them (5 linemen plus McCoy). Maybe Vick isn’t an ambi-turner and can’t turn left, I don’t know. But I do know that I just diagnosed the play that you make seem so completely impossible. It’s those few pre-snap seconds where good QBs look at the whole picture and identify a blitz.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Last year that would/ could have been the responsibility of a linemen to set the protection, the center usually calls the protection in Philly, not Vick. Certainly it was not foreign to the tackle to notice an uncovered man on the line down in the red zone.

            Some of this is pee wee football.

            However, an experienced slot receiver would have picked up an uncovered defender, at the very least chipped him before going into the route unless he was sure the running back would pick him up to protect the QB.

          • nicksaenz1

            Dutch, you’re such a Vick lover and defender it blinds you. First, the slot receiver was split out a little wider and was going out for a route, because it was a pass play He would have had to come in 2-3 yards to chip him. Second, Jason Kelce started calling the line protection BECAUSE of Vick’s inability to process that much information, aka, he can’t read a defense well. To that point, Kelce was down for the season in week 2, so we don’t know that Reid had the back up center calling the line protections of if the responsibility fell back to Vick. Either way, the whole point leads to his inability to dissect a D. Third, if the tackle recognized the blitzer and picked him up, the DE/OLB lined up in front of him probably would have broken Vick in half. You’re only plausible defense of Vick is to pass the blame the to Shady, who would have only benefitted from Vick being able to look to his left and recognize the blitzer. It’s that simple. Here’s the play:

          • http://twitter.com/pjcostello Paul Costello

            McCoy’s decision in that instance was correct, not incorrect — blockers are taught to block from the inside out, so the inside blitzer would be McCoy’s first responsibility, not the outside one. It’s football IQ for Vick, who should have seen both blitzers, known who McCoy was going to pick up, and done his best to avoid Rhodes, throw the ball away, whatever he had to do to NOT get sacked by an unblocked defender.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            I understand that blockers are taught to block from the inside out. I’m not sure if that holds when the inside blitzer is delayed and much further from the QB than a blitzer at the LOS. We just don’t know what the eagles charge their RB with. Also our C and LG are doubling a rusher- that can’t happen. Is that planned, a bad call, a bad read? I can surely speculate, but that isn’t worth much.
            Ultimately we have a very incomplete picture. And it comes down to what is most likely. At the 5-6 second mark Vick’s head is aligned so he can presumably see Kerry Rhodes transfering his weight to his front foot. So, is it more likely that someone with pretty decent spatial awareness and two functioning eyeballs didn’t see a 6 foot 3 215 pound Safety at the LOS or might there be more to this equation?

          • nicksaenz1

            So you can make assumptions that Vick saw a player with peripheral vision because of his spatial awareness but no one is allowed to assume they know who was supposed to block who and anything else people can assume in that play? Get outta here.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            I didn’t assume a thing. I said what I saw, and then I asked from the options available which is most likely to be true. I know what I think, but my entire argument is that we don’t have enough information to really say what’s at issue here. Instead I am saying that there are probably 10 different explanations for a bad football play. Would you rather have 1/10 odds or 9/10 odds? Contrast my position with what youre saying:
            1. Mike Vick is not smart enough to be a NFL QB
            2. I know this conclusively because of 1 play
            3. In this play Vick gave up a sack-fumble-td
            4. While there are 11 players and 11 different sets of responsibilities out there, I know that this play was exclusively Vick’s fault.
            5. It is exclusively Vick’s fault because I don’t think he pointed out a MIKE or saw Kerry Rhodes blitzing.
            6. I know what Vick sees because…..
            7. I know that Vick should have pointed out a MIKE in this situation because….
            8. I know Kerry Rhodes wasn’t someone esle’s responsibility because….
            Come on man. This is getting a little ridiiculous- don’t you think?

          • nicksaenz1

            Yes, that’s actually an assumption, because you don’t know.

            1. He doesn’t read defenses well. A known criticism. Obviously does something right to be an NFL QB, however. Probably his athleticism.
            2. You asked for an example. I provided a great one, which you simply dislike because it was that easy.
            3. He did do that.
            4. No one said exclusively, however, I’ll invoke the umbrella argument of because he’s the QB it falls to him.
            5. He didn’t point out the MIKE and no else seemed to either. Could be Vick’s or the centers fault, either way, Vick needs to know. And he obviously didn’t see Rhodes blitzing. Not unreasonable given that he held the ball for far too long had he known he was blitzing.
            6. Like you, I don’t know what he sees. You assume he used peripheral vision and knew. I used the simple observation that he never once looked to his left to see that part of the field. It would explain why he didn’t see the blitzer.
            7. No one else pointed him out. See #4.
            8. I already said it’s plausible that it could have been Shady’s responsibility. Doesn’t mean Vick shouldn’t have known he was there.

            Yeah, it’s getting ridiculous that you defend him this much.

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          the Eagles scheme was obvious. It was asinine to ask Vick to stay in the pocket and wait on long developing routes down field to come open.

          That offense was easy to defend. Keep your safeties back to protect against DJax,

          Maclin and Celek can’t beat you, they aren’t going to catch underneath and if they do you can keep the damage to a minimum.

          On top of that when it comes to picking up blitzes, the Eagles center or another linemen calls the protection and that does little when Watkins can’t pick up blitzes.

  • UKEagle99

    Every off-season we seem to read how Vick has changed and adapted, addressed his weaknesses and taken that next step. Last year he watched a ton of film and was working on his blitz recognition which didn’t translate very well on the field. He is who he is, good and bad. I just don’t see him walking under centre, noting where the D is lined up and knowing where he has to go with the ball within 1.5 seconds of it being snapped without guessing.

    Prove me wrong Mike.

    • GEagle

      According to all the excuses of the past…Vick is going to SUCK in the first year of a new offense, and year two he will be much better lol…so should we just bench Vick this year, and then let him player year? Lol GROUNDHOGS day PART2, the Mike Vick story

      • Richard Colton

        Vick needs 4 years in Chip Kelly’s new offense, just to see what he can do.

        • CJ

          so let’s “mentor” him for 4 years on the bench so he can retire at 36. I’d be ok with that. Actually, not really lol.

          • Richard Colton

            36 is where all the great ones hit their prime. I tell myself that every day.

          • cliff henny

            my theory is 50’s the new 30, so, 41, i’m just hitting the bars again and you should be just about getting driver’s license

          • theycallmerob

            hahahaha, go ahead and use that logic on the 21 year old ladies you come across. curious how it goes.

          • cliff henny

            well, there’s never a shortage of girls with daddy issues…god bless absentee divorce dads

          • CJ

            If 50’s the new 30, then I’m still in the single digits. lol.

    • Richard Colton

      Old dog, new tricks. I’m ready to turn the page and go to camp with Foles/Dixon/Barkley.

    • Bob A

      I think the difference this year is that if he loses the QB competition, he lost it,. There’s no Andy around to make him the QB just because he’s been around for 12 years. If it’s more than 1.9 seconds Chip will just say “Nice try” and go with one of the other guys.;

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Andy didn’t have receivers who were effective running routes designed to open them within 1.9 secs. Celek doesn’t catch in traffic so he’s not much help in hot situaitons, nor does Maclin or Jackson since both were knocked out crossing the middle. Andy wouldn’t use DJax to return kicks on a consistent basis so he was not exposing Jackson to crossing patterns right off the line.

        Kelly recognized the flaws, it’s obvious if you watched the plays developing. The Eagles receivers never break their routes to provide relief in cases of blitzes, they seldom recognize those blitzes.

    • morgan c

      Exactly. What amazes me is that many people, including some on this message board, continue to believe he is good. He has regressed each of the last two seasons. He is 32. What makes people think he will now finally start to read defenses well, and play smart? All of a sudden he is going to miraculously stop turning the ball over? Excited for new era of Eagles football, but they can’t move on from this idiot fast enough.

      Bring on the hate. Like I said, love my birds, just can’t stand Vick anymore. He’s had his chance, and hopefully he’ll be out by Week 5 so we can start winning.

      • theycallmerob

        fans (and media, and heck even coaches) will always be mesmerized by his athletic ability. not justifying or condoning…just explaining.
        But also- what if he proves everyone wrong, and has a great year? then what? he’s never had two great years in a row, and would then be a unsigned 33 yr old QB.

        Just move on now. take our bruises next year, rebuild the RIGHT way, and stop playing roulette with the most valuable position.

    • BrickSquadMonopoly

      Everything has changed in this entire organization over this offseason yet when it comes to Mike its same old. We all realize what a bad coach andy reid was so why doesnt he get one more chance? Because everythings the same right?

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Andy wasn’t a bad coach, I think he wilted under the pressure in Phila over the last few years. Andy deserves a lot of credit for his work in Phila and making them a respectable franchise for an extended period.

        Andy is recognized as one of the better coaches in the NFL despite the dysfunction of the 2012 Eagles.

        With all the injuries in 2012 and no depth, Andy got away from his bread and butter, and that was Shady following Peters down the left side for 17 touchdown and 1300 yds.

      • Fink

        Because even if he has a good year his contract is up at the end of the season, and he’s 34 years old trying to get paid. His bones were brittle at age 24, can you imagine them at 34? Scary thought.

    • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

      The Center in Philly calls line protection, one of Watkins problems at guard was/is his inability to recognize and pass protect against the blitz and stunts.

      The scheme preferred by Andy and Marty never accommodated for quick releases, the receivers run slow developing routes deep down field. That was a primary reason Foles was punished in the pocket, he had to wait on down field routes to develop. Even with DJax stretching the defense, the Eagles do not have possession receivers who could exploit the underneath soft pockets of a defense, The Eagles receivers simply don’t catch in traffic.

      Andy had long ago abandoned the WCO principles of short passes when Westbrook left Philly. Andy built and drafted for a quick strike offense built around a sustained running attack.

      • UKEagle99

        Your post seems a bit all over the place and whilst I agree with some of your points I don’t think Andy & Marty ever, ever, ever had a “sustained running attack”, (Sustained – Cause to continue or be prolonged for an extended period or without interruption). I have a feeling even if Jason Avant had been called upon to QB they would still throw the thing.

        I think if the OLine plays as well as we all hope they do that Mike Vick will still struggle to put the ball where it needs to be in the time frame allowed for that play. I think he will struggle to recognise pressure and will fail to see the MLB dropping back or the safety coming up. I think he will throw INTs, he will get sacked and he will fumble. I also think he will wow us at times, he will hit deep balls after buying time, he will avoid sacks and pick yards with his feet, he will hit on plays. He’s Mike Vick, this is what he does.

        I trust CK when he says the job will be won on the field, Chip doesn’t strike me as a man that likes losing. If Vick wins the job I trust that CK has given it to him on merit and he gives us the best chance to win.

        I don’t want to see any man that wears the uniform fail, I want them all to be perennial pro bowlers, I want to see Watkins dominate. Personally I hope one of the younger guys wins the job, someone we can build around and develop for years to come. My 2 cents.

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          Well the actual facts are the line, and specifically Watkins, couldn’t pick up blitzes, and the Eagles quarterbacks were on several occasions knocked out of games because of the flaws in protection, Under those conditions it was an asinine scheme setting the Eagles QBs up like sitting ducks waiting on down field routes to open.

          I accept Chip’s explanation: in which he thought like I do that the system was responsible.

          “I think quarterbacks are a byproduct of their experience. But to sit here and say I understood the system that Michael’s been in whether he’s with the Falcons under Coach [Dan] Reeves or here, that depends on the system that you run. Some of the systems that they run they don’t ask him to get the ball out quick. Do I think he can get the ball out quick? I think he’s got an unbelievable release. It’s up and out and it’s quick.”

  • DutchEagle

    I’m gonna go on the record and say Vick makes the Pro Bowl this year. As mentioned so often, CK caters to player’s strengths. It’s obviously not (pre-snap) blitz recognition or ball protection (in the pocket), but I see the Eagles throw in a lot of runs, read-options and designed roll-outs to keep the D of their feet and capitalize on Vick’s strengths. Let’s not forget that Kelly chose to keep Vick, and from what I can tell, he is no fool.

    Furthermore, our O-line should be something more than a small speed bump for pass-rushers this year, which gives Vick more time, meaning less errors in general.

    • Brent E. Sulecki

      Im going to go on record and say Arrelious Benn makes the Pro Bowl this year as well. not kidding..been thinkin on it for a minute. and a few suprise guys on defense..maybe Cary or Kenny Phillips

      • nicksaenz1

        he, like most of our free agent signings, has to stay healthy first.

        • Brent E. Sulecki

          i agree on that. but tell me who saw jacoby jones as the 3rd WR for balitmore last season and kick returner and punt returner making a difference there..i sure didnt. and the guys goes on to have one of the best seasons ive seen. and caps it off with a superbowl MVP…i dont care if Joe got the trophy or not. Jacoby was the man.and a real difference maker and pb player. hoping Benn lives up to his status as the best WR a few years back. and that hes healthy

          • nicksaenz1

            i hope so too, obv. jones’ season was average, his post season was great. and he was def the SBMVP

          • GEagle

            NFL players were polled or something, and apparently they think Jones is a better player than Prcy Harvin….I might have to agree. BOldin took some pressure of Jones and Torry, so it’s going to be interesting to see if they can step up, and elevate their games consistently in the absence of the BEASTMODE/Marshawn Lynch version of Wr’s

      • Richard Colton

        while we’re being silly – I predict no Eagles will be playing in the pro bowl, because they’ll be getting ready for the Superbowl.

      • GEagle

        I actually wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see Benn go Bonkers on the league this year. Certainly don’t EXPECT it, but it wouldn’t shock me at all…he has that kind of ability and potential..Hope that sport science trainer dude earns his pay!!

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        If Benn can’t be a fierce competitor who plays in traffic and over the middle he’s going to be another dude in Phila. We have long ball threats littered through out the receiving corp. The Eagles need a fearless target who raises hell between the hash marks with defenders draped over him.

        • Brent E. Sulecki

          he is a versatile guy. excels at catching in trafiic and making plays after catch and breaking tackles.

        • Fink

          Agreed.

    • nicksaenz1

      how much money would you bet on that?

    • Richard Colton

      CK has never cut an NFL QB unless they asked to be cut. If Vick makes the pro bowl this year, CK is the greatest offensive mind since Bill Walsh.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Not actually, all Kelly has to do, is do what he preaches and that is play to his personnel’s strengths.

        Making a Pro Bowl is not foreign to Vick. Simply get out of his way and give him a useful scheme and help that compliments his talents and strengths.

    • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

      Andy pretty much was stubborn and refused adjustments. He was not the brightest bulb in the box trying to keep Vick tatted to the pocket and not playing to his strengths. Kelly pretty much recognizes the flaws in that system and has promoted his belief in adapting to the strengths of his personnel.

      Keeping Vick in the pocket waiting on deep routes to develop behind a weak Offensive line isn’t the best option for Vick. His game is designed for instincts, and short and intermediate passing limited to 25 to 30 attempts a game. Outside of a horrible scheme the Eagles do not have the personnel to maintain a passing attack. There are no receivers in Philly who can be effective catching in traffic within 5 yds of the line of scrimmage and turning short passes into home runs out side of D Jax and Andy was not exposing D Jax or Maclin to crushing hits on crossing routes in front of safeties and linebackers.

  • http://twitter.com/pjcostello Paul Costello

    I see this as Chip Kelly simply being an intelligent coach. He wants to see for himself what a player can do, and not rely completely on film and scouting. He has an idea of the type of player he wants, and in this instance he’s giving a VERY popular guy in the locker room a chance to prove he can be the QB of this team… so that when he fails, Kelly will not have lost all of those players that love Vick.

    • knighn

      VERY popular guy in the locker room
      NFL Legend
      I second this 100%+.

    • EaglefaninAZ

      Spot on. I was going to post the same sentiments.
      History, not me, says that Mr. Vick is unable or unwilling to change. I see him possibly getting the starting nod out of camp. If he does, I have a feeling he’ll be pulled after two starts. Just one man’s opinion.

      • GEagle

        2 regular season starts is definitely what I would set the over/unders at for Vicks 2013 season…I really can’t imagine him playing more than 2 games…hopefully Foles wipes the floor with him at camp!!!

    • knighn

      Oh, and BTW: how insanely valuable would it be for Foles or Barkley (or Dixon) to legitimately beat out the NFL Legend?
      I mean – OK, if Vick wins, he wins on merit, but if he doesn’t? You can’t buy the kind of cred that a young QB would get by beating out a Legend.

      • JofreyRice

        More like an urban legend, like Crocodiles in the Sewer or how a ghost kid appears in the movie 3 men and a little lady, or whatever.

        “The story goes, sometime back in the early part of the millennium, there was this ultimate weapon football player; he played quarterback, but he could run faster, and had better moves, than all the running backs in the league. He could throw the ball several hundred yards with a flick of his wrist. You couldn’t defend him by loading up the box, because he’d burn you with the pass, and if you dropped back in coverage, he’d run wild on you. He carried his teams on his back, leading them to victory in several big games, and revolutionized the way that quarterback was played, forever after”.

        • nicksaenz1

          You left out SB glory….oh…wait…

        • Richard Colton

          that “Three Men and a Baby” thing is real. creepy.

          but yeah, Vick is done.

          • JofreyRice

            of all the debates we could get into on here, we’re going to debate 3 Men and a Baby:

            Like Vick’s “legendary” NFL career, this one is most certainly NOT REAL. Snopes has the skinny, telling us that “ghostly” image in the background is actually a prop, accidentally left onset during filming. The prop is a cardboard cutout of Tony Danson’s character, dressed in a tuxedo, which had to do with his character being in a dog food commercial for another part of the story line. When Ted Danza and his Mother are in the foreground of the shot, playing with the baby (later to become the “little lady”), the cutout of Danzon can be seen in the background, looking like a creepy specter.

            Snopes has screenshots with pictures of Tony Danzan standing next to himself as a cutout in a later part of the movie.

            http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/3menbaby.asp

          • Richard Colton

            Superfluous period. Should have said “real creepy” – as is any movie starring Jeff Goldbloom

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Foles had ample opportunity to write the last chapter of the Vick saga in Phila last year.

        The fact that Kelly studied the tapes and chose to resign Vick in March seems to suggest Kelly hasn’t seen much to give him confidence in what he saw of Foles.

    • eaglepete

      great point about locker room, he cant say he didnt give Vick an opportunity to win the job if it doesnt work out. Players will know on the practice field, only way it could cause a rift is if Mike outplays the other QBs and they still go another direction, its possible.

    • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

      Kelly could have avoided any of the uncertainty related to the decision regarding Vick by not resigning him and allowing him to move on to other opportunities in the NFL.

      I’m certain he would have if he felt comfortable with his options at the QBs position on the roster.

      • http://twitter.com/pjcostello Paul Costello

        I agree, and the decision to keep him was a bit of a head-scratcher for me… all I can surmise is that: 1) Kelly thinks Vick has a CHANCE to execute the offense successfully, and knows this will come out as OTAs and camps take place; 2) Kelly was unwilling to ditch a team-popular player who finished last season injured, and risk losing players who have some loyalty to Vick (i.e., Desean Jackson, LeSean McCoy).

  • eaglepete

    I want to see Dixon get a chance as well. Its going to be a fun training camp as a fan regardless watching all these guys compete. Im ready for it to start now, just not in a hurry to miss summer though ha. Vick has his chance and thats all he can ask for if it doesnt work out, no excuses. Reeves couldnt do it, Mora Jr couldnt do it, Reid couldnt do it……Kelly?

    • GEagle

      I would gladly give up summer to fast forward to the chip Kelly era…we gave up 14years, what’s a summer? Lol

  • Fink

    Chances of being week 1 starter, IMO:

    Foles: 40%
    Barkley: 35%
    Vick: 25%

    Can’t wait to get a better idea of who it’ll be.

    • Richard Colton

      not even a sniff for poor Dixon?

      • Fink

        Lets be realistic..

        • Richard Colton

          1%? He is, after all, the only guy in the room who has worked with Kelly before. I’m giving him a 10% chance just for that. Then I’m taking away 9% because he’s Dennis Dixon. Leaves me at 1%. A puncher’s chance.

    • Brent E. Sulecki

      its vick and or foles..although i wish it wasnt.
      but heres hoping Matt does his thing and sneaks in there with Nick.

  • Bob A

    RGII probably held onto it for so long because he’s like 50 years old, and never played QB in the NFL. I would be interested in RGIII’s numbers lol

    • Sensei

      Lol well played

    • Brent E. Sulecki

      ha didnt even notice…nice

  • Sensei

    I have every expectation of Vick being the starter week 1 its entirely up to him for how long he will be (more than likely not long)

  • theycallmerob

    Must say, I’m truly intrigued by Barkley. And I can’t remember the last time I said that about a rookie, particularly QB. I would not be surprised in the least if he thrives under Kelly.

    • Inquiring2mind

      USC QUARTERBACKS CANNOT PROSPER IN THE NFL!!!! FACE IT AND STOP BEING IN DENIAL YOU HASTY EAGLE FANS BEGGING FOR A NEW ERA.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dave.alcock.777 Dave Alcock

    As per previous comments, I highly doubt that Vick can be the guy that can help the eagles win a big game, and I’m talking about a playoff game. With all his athletic ability, he has only won one playoff game, has too many fumbles, stupid interceptions, bad decision and missed reads etc. At the end of the day, he just isn’t smart enough to get the job done. Foles showed more then Vick last year, without the same amount of weapons, and that was his first season. I hope that Vick proves me wrong and plays like the 2010 season, but after the last 2 years its hard to see.

  • Vick Supporter

    Lol all you Vick haters are clowns. Vick will shut you all up..AGAIN.

    • jonp

      Sometimes he shuts us up and sometimes he doesn’t. The issue is consistency. You never know what you’re going to get with this guy.

  • Steven Keaton

    To be fair, his O-line was horrendous. He would get the ball and be on his back instantly. And he took some violent hits and hung in there. He is a tough dude.

  • cliff henny

    if dixon wins job, might as well forget about season, cause we’ll be qb shopping for sure in ’14 draft. least if foles/barkley get nod, will have some hope that they’ll become long term starter. way i feel about dixon is pretty much way i feel about vick, but with vick, at least there’s the dangle carrot of ‘if he finally put it all together’

  • Richard Colton

    good post. I’ll go as high as 2%

  • Dominik

    One question: I don’t get the compensatory picks stuff really, but would’nt we get a good (better) compensatory pick if Vick plays good and the Eagles let him go in 2014? He earns a pretty good salary, at least (not really for a QB, but still)

    That’s not a great reason to let him start, I’m just curious.

  • nicksaenz1

    well if winfield played to vicks left hand side it makes sense. he’s not an ambi-turner, as seen in that kerry rhodes play.

  • Richard Colton

    you’re being a little hard on the Rock. I’d like to see what Antoine Winfield would have done vs. the people’s elbow.

  • GEagle

    Wow..Damn good question. I can’t answer it with certainty. not Sure if compensatory picks is for losing players signed as FA, or if it’s just awarded for losing players you drafted to free agency….what I do understand of it is that it’s not exactly how many players/value you lose…It’s the ratio of how much you lost to how much you added….so if hey look at next years free agent market, and don’t plan on being players in The market, then letting a 1st rounder like Maclin walk, combined with letting a 2nd round pick like Nate walk, would bring back some real nice draft compensation in return

  • Joe Jones

    If said player is a free agent and signs with another team. Team losing player is eligible for a compensatory pick. According to eaglescap.com, Vick is not on the books for 2014, so he will be a free agent after this season. However, if we cut him at any time before season end, obviously, we dont get a compensatory pick.

  • atb124

    Shady’s still pissed that Mike jumped the gun. :)