Eagles Wake-Up Call: Revisiting the 2011 Draft

Most analysts agree that it takes three years to properly judge a draft class.

But in the case of the Eagles’ 2011 picks, we might only need two.

Bucky Brooks of NFL.com recently re-picked the first round, knowing what we know now. Instead of Danny Watkins at No. 23, he has the Eagles taking cornerback Jimmy Smith:

The Eagles could avoid the failed “Dream Team” experiment by a selecting a Nnamdi Asomugha-like corner in this do-over. Smith is the long, rangy press corner needed to take on the likes of Dez Bryant, Pierre Garcon and Victor Cruz in the NFC East.

Smith was originally taken four spots after Watkins. He has only five starts in two seasons, but played a significant amount of snaps for the Ravens’ Super Bowl squad last year,

Watkins, meanwhile, enters his third NFL season not knowing if he has a future with the team that drafted him.

He was inconsistent in 12 games as a rookie before being sidelined with what Andy Reid deemed a “chronic” ankle injury after six starts in 2012. When Watkins got healthy again, his spot had been taken by 31-year-old Jake Scott. Now he’ll try to get a fresh start with Chip Kelly and offensive line coach Jeff Stoutland, but nothing is guaranteed.

The miscues from the 2011 draft extend well beyond the 28-year-old guard. The Eagles continue to look for safety help after missing badly on Jaiquawn Jarrett in the second round. And they added a pair of corners in free agency, partly because Curtis Marsh, a third-round pick, has yet to show he’s worthy of getting a shot to start.

The players remaining from that class are Watkins, Marsh, Alex Henery, Dion Lewis, Casey Matthews, Julian Vandervelde and Jason Kelce.

Henery will continue to be the team’s kicker, and Kelce figures to have a bright future if he can recover from last year’s knee injury. But everyone else in the group will be fighting for a roster spot.

Earlier this offseason, Jeffrey Lurie took Howie Roseman off the hook for that draft, indirectly pointing the blame at Joe Banner and Andy Reid. But it’s evident that many of the holes the team went into the offseason with (right guard, safety, cornerback) can be traced in part back to misses during the 2011 draft.

WHAT YOU MISSED

Here are three leftovers: DeSean Jackson on tempo, Brandon Graham on sports science and Jason Peters on getting a playoff win.

T-Mac rounds up the latest draft buzz.

The Eagles have hosted Darius Slay, the fastest cornerback in the draft, for an official visit.

They have also worked out Oklahoma offensive tackle Lane Johnson.

EJ Manuel delivers his latest draft diary.

WHAT THEY’RE SAYING

Mike Mayock tells Paul Domowitch of the Daily News that Cincinnati tight end Travis Kelce is a second-round pick:

“He’s going to end up going in the second round. There were some questions about him off the field and some durability issues. But I think he’s addressed a lot of that. Most people have bought into him. The tape is pretty darn good. This kid can go deep. He catches the football. He’s really athletic. And he’ll also compete in the blocking.”

In an Allentown Morning Call piece, Jimmy Kempski takes a look at Lane Johnson as an option for the Eagles:

Johnson played RT at Oklahoma in 2011, then moved to LT in 2012. If the Eagles were to draft him, Johnson would fit in well with how the Eagles might use him. The idea would be for Johnson to slide right in at RT from Day 1, while Todd Herremans would move to RG.

COMING UP

We’re 17 days away from the draft. Plenty to get to today and this week.

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  • wilbertmontgomery

    It is truly amazing how one much one really bad draft can hurt a team.

    • Bdawk20

      It is, but even more amazing is that the Eagles have had more than one really bad draft in the late-term Reid/Banner era.

      • cliff henny

        take the shady 2nd round pick out of equation, and Reid and Co.’s last 4 or 5 were just awful. 20/20 hindsight, we really should have seen 4-12 coming, cant miss on that many drafts in a row.

        • JofreyRice

          Hindsight is really the only way to judge a draft, and it’s perfectly acceptable to apply it. There is no other way for you to judge the decision-making ability of a FO, other than to look at how those decisions have turned out. Saying the FO picked a guy “everyone liked at the time” is not valid. They get paid to figure out who to pick, not make picks that the media or fans are pumped up about.

          Roseman, Reid, & Banner blew, that much can’t be argued. Who knows what the real dynamics of the situation were, but I can tell you this, subtract Roseman from that crew, and put a figurehead like Heckert, and you have the team that put together the roster on 5 NFC Champ teams & a SB squad.

          • cliff henny

            sure, judging drafts, but i was specifically addressing last season. heck, i was right with most, saw 10-6 at worst. just pretty obvious once the injuries started that we just didnt have any depth, on top of some over-rated players.

          • JofreyRice

            ah, see, I was extremely pessimistic about last season. I never thought they had a good squad. I said all along that those wins down the stretch in ’10 were being inflated in importance. People don’t want to hear it, but Andy Reid left for a better roster on a 2 win team. I can say I didn’t think the Eagles would be quite as bad as they were, though.

            My honest opinion is that the Eagles, right now, are down there with the worst teams in the league, in terms of roster talent. They’re half-a-step up from the Raiders, Cards & Jaguars. It’s a direct reflection of their failures in the draft.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Starter wise, at key positions, I think we have one of the better rosters in the league which is why Chip chose to come here and not Cleveland.

            Depth wise,you are absolutely correct, one of the worst.

          • Token

            Got to disagree. What about when you take the homer rose colored glasses off?

          • Richard Colton

            Well if you’re only looking at the Eagles and Cleveland, he’s absolutely right.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Great addition to the conversation as always, Token.

          • Token

            ugh, I didnt think it was necessary to go any farther.

            Vick is the QB…………..

            No 1000 yard WR in a NFL where thats not as hard to do.

            McCoy one of the best

            Peters I have doubts that he can be the same guy. Just remember he is a 10 mil cap hit, if hes cut theres no dead money. Seems like a crazy thought but camps and preseason are important to him especially if they take a LT at 4. If he cant play at the same level I think hes gone.

            Mathis is very good but hes what 32?

            Kelce, while he may end up being good, is one of the most overrated players by Eagle fans. Not sure why. But a knee injury is never good especially for someone who wasnt great to begin with.

            Right guard………..

            Herremans needs to play guard.

            I dont feel I need to go through the defensive starters. At least I hope not. Are you starting to get a clearer picture of what this team is? Lets not even talk about depth. We need much more talent at starting positions.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Peters at 75% is better than either of the touted rookie tackles and league veterans to include available free agents. Peters salary is $10 per years, if the Eagles were to cut him tomorrow and he passed medical evaluations, he would probably sign elsewhere for $11 Million, he’s the best tackle in Football. Without Peters Shady is just another running back.

          • Token

            Peters is a stud. But people forget that he was disappointing when he first arrived. He was finally playing like a great LT before he got injured. Im not really sure what guy to expect post injury. He has laziness in him.

          • JofreyRice

            Yeah, can’t agree with that. Which guys are at the top 5 at their position, right now? McCoy & Mathis are the only two you can make the case for, and Mathis is aging pretty quickly. The entire secondary has been replaced, and the guys they picked are either guys that were on the bench, or were injured. They have 1 LB on the roster that we know fits no matter what, and the starting LE right now is an undrafted free agent that hasn’t shown much in the league.

          • Wilbert M.

            I think the reason the depth is so bad is that Andy kept his crappy draft picks around rather than dumping them and cutting the losses. Why in God’s name were Marsh, Hughes, Matthews, Chaney, Sims, etc on the team if they can’t play? It would have been better to bring in guys and see if they could play – you’re bound to get lucky eventually.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            Amen, like I said before our roster was full of guys that had no business in the NFL. Like when our starting LB’s were Matthews, Chaney and Role/Rolle Clayton. We’re paying a steep price for terrible drafting now, and we will for a few years. You reap what you sow.

          • JofreyRice

            Hmmm…Curious about that. Here’s my take on the comparison:

            Offense:

            QB – CLV Weeden ~= PHI Vick/Foles

            RB – CLV Richardson PHI J. Maclin

            RWR – CLV G. Little < PHI D. Jackson

            TE – CLV J. Cameron PHI J. Peters

            LG – CLV J. Pinkston PHI J. Kelce

            RG – CLV S. Lauovo > PHI D. Watkins

            RT – CLV M. Schwartz > PHI T. Herremans

            Defense:

            LDE – CLV A. Rubin > PHI C. Thornton/R.Geathers

            NT – CLV P. Taylor > PHI I. Sopoaga

            RDE – CLV D. Bryant PHI C. Barwin

            LILB – CLV D’Q Jackson < PHI D. Ryans

            RILB – CLV J. Michael-Johnson ~= PHI M. Kendricks

            ROLB – CLV J. Sheard PHI B. Fletcher

            SS – CLV TJ Ward > PHI P. Chung

            FS – CLV E. Hagg < PHI K. Phillips (if healthy)

            RCB – CLV B. Skrine < PHI C. Williams

            My personal opinion is that we're about even with Cleveland.

          • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

            A fair assessment. There are a few I would disagree with. I would take Foles alone in a heartbeat over the 29 year old Weeden. I don’t think Josh Gordon is clear cut better than Maclin. Wouldn’t even put Watkins down as the starter at RG. Even if we don’t draft a tackle I would expect them to still slide Herremans inside and put Dennis Kelly in RT. I would put Herremans > Lauovo at RG and Schwartz > Kelly. The talent drop off from Thomas to Peters isn’t massive, but Thomas wins because of age/injury concerns.

            Defense is a mess and I think you’ve got all the right assessments there. I believe they grossly overpaid for Kruger, and I’m interested to see how the numbers turn out as far as Kruger v Barwin goes. Thorton won’t be our starting LDE.

          • JofreyRice

            It’s all debateable, and obviously, still pretty fluid, considering both of these teams have top 10 picks, and will add starters from here.

            Foles is better from a moral victory standpoint–we didn’t blow a 1st rounder–but outside of that, I dunno. I kinda have the sneaking suspicion neither of the guys is going to be a starting NFL QB for much longer.

            I’m a big Josh Gordon fan. 6’3, 225, with deep speed and tackle-breaking ability? I’ll take that in a heartbeat over Maclin, who, at 6′ 200, plays like a much smaller receiver. That’s just my opinion, though.

            Sure, they might have overpaid for just a “good” player in Paul Kruger, but he’s still a good player. His passrush will make them a better team; ditto with the Bucs and Dashon Goldson and his coverage ability. The Eagles might have gotten a great deal, but they also might have gotten what they paid for in Connor Barwin. If they were jammed up against the cap, and really needed to add a player on the cheap, I think I’d be more excited. He’s a KMart acquisition, just don’t like his game at all, regardless of cap implications.

          • Richard Colton

            Wow. exhaustive, but wow.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Are you familiar with a healthy Phil Taylor.

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      Besides last year our draft classes have been absolutely atrocious and it’s really showing now. We have a roster full of late round guys that have no business being on an NFL roster. Chip will shed a lot of this dead weight but it will take time to have a fully functioning roster with decent depth.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        The quality of depth on the Eagles rosters is why the new free agent signees look so promising.

  • Kyle Cruel

    I believe Roseman was just beginning to learn the ropes in 2011 while the old guard should have known better and done better given their track record of draft misses. If last year is any indication, we should expect improvement in finding serviceable talent from the draft going forward.

  • joethomas215

    I hope Marsh breaks out this year. Toys and chicken, vanilla, I think I want some ice
    cream

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      It was known when he was drafted that he was going to be a project. He’s definitely on a bubble now and he’s not even a lock to make the roster let alone break out. He needs to put up this summer.

      • joethomas

        I agree, this is the year he gotta show something, he got the tools, hopefully with out the names in front of him he can flourish

    • JofreyRice

      Marsh is one player that I still am holding out hope for. He was buried behind Nnamdi & DRC. They had to play Nnamdi, because they were paying him megabucks, and they had to play DRC to find out if he was worthy of megabucks. I thought Marsh was decent in the games he played in.

      • Token

        It seems pretty unlikely they think anything of Marsh. They just brought in two starters after booting the last two.

        • JofreyRice

          I agree with that, but I liked Marsh coming out, so I’m just being stubborn!

          • GGeagle21

            I would literally cut the entire secondary except Chung/Phillips and Colt if it were up to me! lol…I want roster spots in Philly to start meaning something again. If you arent contributing on sunday, you better be constantly grfowing and improving til you are eventually ready to contribute. Can anyone actually say that Marsh is any better today, than he was the day he arrived? In fairness he hasnt gotten a chance to show much….but if he was a player, I think he should have been more noticable on ST…………

  • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

    Lest we not forget the addition of Tom Gamble….hopefully some fresh eyes, with a proven track record I might add, will benefit this draft. Not to mention a new staff full of college coaches who know many of these players inside and out.

    • JofreyRice

      eh, I think that has some validity, but ultimately, if the guy in the driver’s seat is ignoring the GPS, you’re gonna get lost. Remember Phil Savage? He was the guy they brought in as a consultant to help with the draft in 2010 & 2011. His track record includes working as a scout for Ozzie Newsome, and being instrumental in bringing in guys like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Jamal Lewis, Terrell Suggs, and Johnathan Ogden. He left to run the Senior Bowl after the 2011 draft. I think the results kind of speak for themselves.

      • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

        Oh most definitely. But I think besides our well-inked misses on some early-round picks, the Eagles have been miserable with late rounders and UFAs. That’s where I think having all these coaches whispering their desires to Roseman will make a difference- we need a strong, deep draft, and I don’t remember us being in a better position for that in 10 years. This will define Kelly and Roseman for years in the eyes of many . Would it kill us to finally draft one late round WR, LB, or DB that can actually contribute??

        • JofreyRice

          Yeah, it’s kind of a bummer that they don’t have all the 4th, 5th and 6th rounders that they usually do. All their stockpiled picks are in the 7th.

          I’d love to see them somehow come out of this draft with developmental players like AJ Klein, ILB out of Iowa State, to take over for Demeco, eventually, Cooper Taylor, 6’4″ 225 pound S, out of Richmond, and Brice Butler, 6’3 215 lb WR–a former 4 star recruit @ USC–that Pete Carroll & the Seahawks were talking to about moving to CB. Butler & Taylor might be around in the 7th, but they are both pretty intriguing size/speed athletes that could go higher.

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          If you can’t pick talent at the top of the draft board, you’re not going to get any better picking in the later rounds. The Eagles have long been a disaster with the draft.

  • JofreyRice

    I’ve read the argument that b/c everything is so hush-hush about Kelce’s 1 year suspension, that it was probably drug-related, and was turned up by the team, rather than Johnny Law.

    Now, if he smoked a little weed, then I’d say its NBD, but if he was snorting bath salts and arguing with phase people in the ceiling, I think it’s a little more serious. Really just no way to tell, but the fact that his brother seems fairly well-adjusted, if just a little goofy, makes me think it’s more the former than the latter.

    The 2011 draft was an absolute train-wreck. I know everyone wants to anoint the 2012 draft as a booming success, but I’m not sold A) that Howie Roseman did not have a major part in the abomination of 2011, and B) that 2012 was some “fantastic” masterstroke; we’re not even 12 months removed from it. 2012 really only looks wonderful in comparison to the garbage haul they came away with in 2011. Last year’s draft looks to have produced 2 starters (maybe, if Kendricks is a fit for the 3-4), and 2 part-time/depth players (Boykin, Brown).

    • cliff henny

      cant leave cox out of it…just getting a 1st rounder that plays like a first rounder was something we havent done in years. also, i was happy to see them stop taking major projects in rounds 2-4. actually picked players that were nfl ready. may not be an all-timer class like we hoped, but at least it was an obvious change in direction from previous 4 or 5 classes.

      • JofreyRice

        I agree. Fletcher Cox is great. Fantastic pick and kudos to them, but outside of that, I think people are counting their chickens a little bit.

        I don’t think you can say Curry was a good pick. He made it to the field for 89 snaps. At best, he gets a mulligan, to try and prove himself as a 5 technique end, which is not a fit anyone projected him for. I don’t think you can add Curry as a + for that draft.

        Other than that, you have Kendricks, who looked very much like a rookie, and might not have a place in the new scheme, and Boykin, who is a slot-cornerback only they got in the 4th round, where you expect to get specialty players that are position limited. Brown is a talented runner that needs to make some big steps to become a reliable running back.

        the way I see it, they have 2 second rounders that may or may not be scheme fits, a 3rd rounder that’s got questionable arm-talent, and is probably not a scheme fit. That’s 1 homerun starter out of the first 4 rounds. That’s “fantastic”?

        • Richard Colton

          Good overall assessment. That’s why we use the three year rule. Honestly the jury is out on all of them after Cox. Boykin looks good in the slot, but can he cover outside? Can Kendricks make the adjustment to 3-4? He faded down the stretch. Is Foles a quality QB? Can brown hold onto the ball? Can Dennis Kelly show us more than he did his rookie year? Can Curry make the roster?

          • GGeagle21

            HELLO? Kendricks has EXTENSIVE 3-4 EXPERIENCE!!! and when we are in 4-3Under sets, he is literally tailor made to play the WIL. Did Kendricks show that he was an amazing LB last year? NO! But He showed me enough to make me think that he will develope into a serious playmaker…Its a game of inches, and the Game will slow down for him, and when it does, all those near interceptions will turn into big plays! Kendricks was used to about 35% of his ability last year. We didnt even blitz him, which is a strength of his…I would NOT worry about Mychal
            As for Kelce….My guess is that he beat the shit out of someone…either a teamate, or someone on campus, the fact that it has been kept so quiet makes me think he beat the shit out of a teamate,. I have been on teams where that has happened, and thats what usually was wiped under the rug the best

          • JofreyRice

            Hope you’re right about Kendricks. For the reasons you mentioned, he was my favorite LB in the draft, and I was really excited to get him on the Eagles. I remember him just destroying Nate Solder on a blitz in the Cal/Colorado game. I do agree he’s a fit for RILB in the 4-3 under. I would say that you have more than a tablespoon of optimism in your assessment, though.

          • GGeagle21

            I honesatly dont even worry about Kendricks…I really dont! Going into last years draft, my wish list was Cox, and then to come away with 2 of the 3(Kendricks, Lavonte David, Bobby wagz),..I cant really fault the Eagles, because they had every intention on drafting David after they took Kendricks, the Bucs new it, so they jumped ahead of us and stole Lavonte…I know for a fact we wanted David..I just dont know if we still would have taken him with Curry on the board..they had a 1st round grade on Vinny, and did not expect him to be there when they drafted a 2nd time in rd 2…I know they liked both Lavonte, and Curry…I guess the Bucs made the decision easy for us….
            But Kendricks, I really dont worry about at all! He showed promise last year, in a scheme that did nothing to show off his talents…and trying to judge a rookie on the most dysfunctional defense ever is just about impossible…He was a TOP LB playing in a 3-4.. If we go to a 4-3Under, Kendricks will TAKE OFF! But even if we go straight 3-4, he will be a player we can count on for years to come..Good kid, heckuva talent, great charecter, lives the game…HOMERUN!
            Bet, if you took Kendricks and stuck him in the middle of the seahawks defense, he would have looked alot better too! Wagz played with a Dline who kept blockers off of him…Kendricks had to play in a scheme that put a crazy amount of pressure on our LBs…Our Dlineman pinned their ears back and tried to get up field regardless of whether it was a pass or run…our Dline wasnt occupying blockers….Cant even compare Kendricks and Wags because the heaven and Hell drastically different situations they were in as rookies

          • Richard Colton

            Wagner looked like a star last year. I’d trade him even up for Kendricks – hope you would too.

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      I’m not sure anyone’s anointing 2012 as a booming success, It was a good draft class. and I wouldn’t sugar coat it anymore than that.You got a 2 starters (I’d actually argue 3 starters because of the amount of time you play in nickel). Brown was an absolute steal in the 7th round, I’m sure he would start on some NFL rosters with that talent. Foles and Kelly, at the very least, could be labelled as serviceable depth. We wiffed on Washington and and probably McNutt, but McNutt was a great prospect who a stellar college career, with good size. Curry was a victim of circumstance with Washburn, and now may be a victim of regime change.

      I’d label a draft where you get 2 or 3 starters, some depth (Foles, Kelly. Brown), and maybe some trade bait in Curry, with a couple a of busts (McNutt gets another camp before I label him that) as a good draft. You get any more than this then you’re really happy, but I think we can be satisfied.

      • JofreyRice

        Oh, I think the general opinion is that the Eagles killed it in the 2012 draft class. I really liked Fletcher Cox, and I really liked Mychal Kendricks and Brandon Boykin, so I was really excited about the draft, too, but I can’t say that I saw overwhelming success in terms of rookie play that a team like say, Seattle had, to call 2012 even a “good” draft, yet. It’s just too early, and there are too many pieces moving in terms of what this regime wants to do. We thought Kafka was “serviceable depth” until the preseason last year.

        • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

          I think it’s a bit unfair to paint such broad draft strokes on all these guys. Seattle absolutely did a great job and any team in the league, not just the Eagles, would have loved to have a draft class like that.

          It’s easy to say “well if Curry was so great why could he not make it on the field?”. Well we all know Washburn’s ways when it came to the d-line. We all saw Curry play pretty damn good in the preseason, at least glimpses that he could cut his teeth in the NFL. But when the losses started piling up, there was absolutely no reason Curry shouldn’t have been taking Tapp’s snaps. Even if Curry was a drop off from Tapp (which I don’t think so) Curry needed those snaps and should have gotten them, at the very least to get his rookie season behind him.

          Foles didn’t get the wins but I think his numbers were very good for a rookie 3rd rounder In fact I think he even had some rookie record numbers. I doubt there has ever been a 3rd round QB to step in mid-season with no camp as a starter and win games. Especially behind a rag tag oline. I’d even say that for what Nick did last year he was high value for a 3rd rounder.

          Kendricks was a speedy back who is built to play clean. He was playing behind a defensive line that was built to get sacks but didn’t produce, so he got exposed in run defense and pass coverage. Overall though he had a half decent rookie campaign, I think he finished 10 top in rookie tackles.

          I know it sounds like i’m making excuses for all these guys, but the point I’m trying to make is that under different circumstances these guys could have produced better, with better coaching, better drafting and just a better roster overall they would not have been so “exposed”. Seattle utilized their talent and drafted better, thus their higher round pick starters were less exposed on the field with good starters around them, and their later round guys had proper time to sit behind quality guys and learn the position.

          It’s a change that’s going to take some time, but I believe 2012 draft class was a step in the right direction.

          • JofreyRice

            Nah, I don’t think it’s fair to say Curry is no good, but I don’t think you can count him as a “hit” either. Total unknown, that’s going to be asked to play a position no one projected him to. Maybe it works out, but if not, that’s another wasted 2nd rounder.

            Agree that Foles showed promise, and was OK for a third rounder. However…I just didn’t see a lot of NFL throws, in terms of velocity and accuracy. There were some things he did OK, but not being able to sling it could be a fatal flaw. I know the mantra is that Kelly “adapts”, but I think his history shows he’s got a pretty defined preference for QBs who can run, and present another threat the D has to bring a defender into the box for.

            I was disappointed in Kendricks, but his rookie campaign was not horrible. I watched him quite a bit at Cal, and he showed a lot more in terms of violence in run defense there. We’ll see if things slow down, and he can get back to being a heatseeker behind the line. Tackle stats are a little tricky for me to judge a player by, and very often, they’re not accurate.

            I’ll co-sign 2012 as a step in the right direction. I have no beef with that, because it takes the other horrible drafts into the context of that statement. I’ve seen some people refer to 2012 as much more than that, however.

          • GGeagle21

            Its alot easier for a rookie to step into one of the best teams in the NFL and show that he was a good pick….then for a rookie to try and make an impact on a dysfunctional MESS that was the 2012 Eagles!

        • GGeagle21

          Rokkie Impact means NOTHING in terms of judging a draft class!…
          everyone wants that QB who will step on the field day 1 and have success…well traditionally it hasnt worked that way…most guys that showed success right away as QB’s, ended up regressing or being flash in the pans(except for Marino, and Brady)………Most of the GREAT QB’s in the history of the NFL had very ROUGH starts, and it took them a few years of playing time til we started to see the players they eventually became.
          I think you judge a rookie class, when you see what happens when their rookie contracts expire…do you extend most of them? are the players you dont extend highly sought after on the market…When drafting a player, you want the player that will go on to have the best career as an eagle(what happens in year 1, says very little)

          • JofreyRice

            I think it’s fair to wait to judge a draft class. On that same token, I don’t want to hear about what a great class we had in 2012, yanno?

            I’d add that I didn’t expect Foles to set the world on fire. I can live with rookie mistakes and growth. My concern with Foles is really all about his arm. I also think he’s just at a severe disadvantage in a QB competition with Mike Vick in Chip Kelly’s Offense.

          • GGeagle21

            I watched alot of Foles in College, so how could I worry about his arm? Prior to his 6 games as a rookie, he was touted as a big arm QB…you dont just lose your arm at the age of 24…What happens is when you have a ton of new info to process, and you dont trust your line, and the game is moving at a million miles an hour, and you are under heavy pressure…your Mechanics fall apart, and your arm gets weaker…..The game will slow down for him THIS YEAR, and once he trusts his line, and develops he will get to the point were he constantly throws with the proper mechanics on every single play regardless of the pressure he is under, and once that happens…his arm strength will NEVER come into question again…I dont know if Foles will develope into the franchase or not…but if he doesnt, it wont be because of his arm strength…
            You are absolutely right that 2012 cant be judged yet….Im just high on it, because for the first time EVER, they drafted everyone I wanted them to draft…This was my wish list going into last years draft:
            rd1)Cox
            rd2)Kendricks
            rd2) Lavonte/Wagner
            Rd3)Boykin
            1)Cox was the only player I wanted in rd 1…I really liked Curry and Chandler Jones, but I knew they would be too early for where we were picking.
            2)I wanted two of the 3(Kendricks, Lavonte, Bobby Wagz)…I had NO idea that Vinny Curry who I thought would have been drafted around #25, would be there with our 2nd round pick. Once the Bucs jumped us for David, Curry was tough to pass up in my eyes..
            3) I liked Foles alot, but I didnt think QBs were on our Radar last year, because I figured we would wait a year since in our mind we were gearing up to be superbowl contenders…I hated Osweiler…but because they took Foles, I was able to live with passing on Boykin(Who was MY RD3 TARGET)…and then we get to round 4 and still grab Boykin, I was ecstatic.
            So, as you see, it would be hard for me to not be thrilled with the 2012 draft at this point, because its rare as a fan, that your dream draft scenario pans out…mine was pretty darn close…so can you really expect me not to be thrilled with 2012? Especially since Im used to wanting a guy who ends up being a stud, only to have AR outsmart himself and draft a Daniel Teo-neshan type who was staring at his ceiling waiting to be drafted, fockin weirdo
            they also ended up with Dennis Kelly(Who I think has a chance to be one of our Next Generation starting Tackles), and Big Daddy Bryce, who could end up becoming a special back, and a top 5 RB from the 2012 class……..
            Its to Early to realistically say 2012 was GREAT….but it certainly has a chance to be

  • HowieDon’tKnow

    This draft is one of the reasons why I have no confidence in HR. Since his ascent began within the organization, our drafts have continued to drop. Not surprising the Ravens get a player with their first in 2011 and we don’t. That’s just like 2012 in the second round when we take Curry (who couldn’t get on the field on a bad team, even for special teams) and they get an OT with the next pick who starts every game. We won’t be a great team until we get a great FO. Don’t tell me about Gamble. SF has a real GM and their picks since he was named have been solid.

    • ohitsdom

      Washburn had his favorites, you can’t call 2012 a bad draft because he wouldn’t play Curry. 2012 was a pretty good draft, and it’s impressive we can say that the very next year.

    • Wilbert M.

      The problem was Andy having too much power over the draft. Lurie stated that the 2011 and prior drafts weren’t Howie’s responsibility. Andy always tried to show he was smarter than everyone else with surprise picks and reaches rather than going with conventional picks. Don’t blame Howie.

  • Bdawkbdawk

    Why does everyone continue to parrot 4-12, 4-12 ? Sure, wins and losses are the only thing that matter during the season, but in terms of projecting for the future, does anyone really think that 4-12 should be our starting point ?!
    Let’s be honest with ourselves here. We had one of the hardest schedules in terms of off days /playing teams after byes. And we shelfed our best players to see what young talent we had at the end of the year. Add in Reid making desperation calls, a fumbles recovered ratio that is nearly impossible to duplicate,the total decimation of our offensive line and a defensive change in the middle of the year, and you have the perfect storm that was the 2012 Philadelphia Eagles. I don’t think we are a sure bet play-off team or anything, but by the end of last year we were playing with two legs tied behind our backs and a broken arm.

    • Token

      The Eagles are a bad football team that lacks talent. Especially at the most important spot on the field. The Eagles have actually not been very good for years now actually. They have been swimming in the pits of mediocrity for like 4 or 5 years.

      • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

        Which is exactly why we have a new head coach. You don’t often inherit a good roster from a fired coach. The fact is this is the cards we’ve been dealt, and this is what Chip has to deal with. It’ll take time time to right the ship, but at the very least it’ll be nice to see a change of philosophies.

        • Token

          Yea, but werent you the one just saying we have great starters? I mean thats an insane statement. This one is more realistic.

    • Richard Colton

      because we were 4-12? Something Bill Parcells said seems fitting here. Every team has injuries. Every team deals with adversity. It’s a new era, sure, but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking we’re stocked with pro-bowl talent, because we aren’t.

      • Bdawkbdawk

        Bill Parcells is right. Every team does have injuries. But does every team lose the strength of their team- 2 high level olinemen and the best LT in the game? Does every team shelf their starting qb and best WR too? Every team fumbles. But does every team fumble 21 times and have a 35% recovery rate? you tell me.

        The eagles aren’t stacked, but this team is pretty good. Conservatively, Shady is pro-bowl caliber, Peters and Mathis are pro bowl caliber, Djax is probowl caliber, Cole has been pro bowl caliber and cox has pro bowl potential.

        The eagles don’t lack talent. The eagles have about league average talent. And we have league average drafting. We just have been so friggen spoiled these last ten years that people forget what average looks like.

        • JofreyRice

          Dude, the Eagles really haven’t been a serious team since 2008. That’s awhile ago now, and that run itself was pretty unexpected.

          What I’ll say about their talent level is that the lip-service about parity in the NFL is mostly true. The difference in talent between NFL teams is a much smaller Delta than the MLB. That being said, I think you’re overvaluing here. He’s got his electric moments, but Jackson isn’t even a top 15 WR in this league, on a snap-to-snap basis. Cox had a very nice rookie campaign, but he is not a probowler yet. Trent Cole’s probowl days are probably behind him. Peters is going to be very much a question mark until he shows he’s back from the injury; I like his confidence, but last year Mike Vick was talking about this being a “dynasty”, so confidence only gets you so far.

          • Bdawkbdawk

            Not serious in 2009 when we went 11-5? Not serious in 2010 when we won the NFC-East and had a chance to beat the NFL champion Green Bay Packers on the last possession of the game?!?

            Desean Jackson is a two time pro bowler and has the raw skills to do it again.

            I never said Cox is a probowler- I said he has the raw skill and ability to be a pro bowler in the future. I agree about Cole, but I still see him as an 8 sack-strong against the run player.
            I see no reason to compare Peters’ comments about being healthy, to Vick’s confident remarks about the Philadelphia Eagle’s ceiling being a dynasty.

            There is not a single team in the NFC East whose roster I look at, and think, we are at a significant disadvantage.

          • JofreyRice

            2009 their SOS was really low. They lost 3 times to the Cowboys, and got handled depressingly every time. The 2009 Cowboys squad pushed their face in the dirt and made them sing the ABCs, it was an embarrassment. If McNabb hand’t sharted in his pants in that air guitar playoff game, do you really think that team was going anywhere?

            2010 had a lot of promise, mainly on the strength of Vick’s comeback, but by the end of the season, they were returning to the mean. Take away that heroic comeback against the Giants, which will prove to be Vick’s signature moment as an Eagle, and the whole last month is losses.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            2009 signaled the time to rebuild, surprisingly they made the playoffs in 2009 and 2010 and wrecked their draft position both years.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Cox will be game planned around in 2013. He was first team all Rookie. Don’t be surprise if he is rewarded in 2013 with all pro honors at defensive tackle.

            “Cox really started to come into his own during the second half of the season. He has a great first step and a nice bull rush. There are times where he will try to do too much and take himself out of plays, but as he develops, he should become one of the most fearsome pass-rushing tackles in the league.”

            Cole had injuries that impeded his production in 2012. I’m willing to bet he’s back to hunting in any scheme Davis employes in Phila. Peters at 75% is still the best Left Tackle in the NFL.

            Correct the depth issues on the line, and give McCoy the ball, and he’s off to 1450 yds, and 17 TDs again. The Question mark is what can you get from Brown and any of the receivers.

  • GGeagle21

    I dont even care to talk about the 2011 draft…thats how worthless it was!