What’s Left From the McNabb And Kolb Trades?

As recently as last offseason, it looked like the assets acquired in the Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb trades would play a major role in re-shaping the Eagles’ defense.

But looking ahead to 2013, that probably won’t end up being the case.

It was three years ago on Easter Sunday that the Birds shipped McNabb to the Redskins in exchange for a second-round pick in 2010, along with a conditional third- or fourth-rounder in 2011.

With the second-round pick (37th overall), the Eagles selected safety Nate Allen, who has been a disappointment in his first three seasons. At the end of last year, Allen was benched in favor of Kurt Coleman and Colt Anderson. The Eagles added Patrick Chung and Kenny Phillips in the offseason. And they very well could draft a safety later this month, meaning Allen will be competing for a roster spot.

The other pick from the McNabb trade ended up being a fourth-rounder (No. 104 overall) in 2011. But the Eagles traded that selection to the Bucs (who took tight end Luke Stocker). In exchange, the Birds moved down 12 spots and selected linebacker Casey Matthews. They also received a fourth-round draft choice in 2012 from Tampa.

The Eagles started Matthews at middle linebacker as a rookie, moved him to SAM, benched him and then got him back into the rotation at the end of the year. In 2012, he was a complete non-factor on defense, playing 45 total snaps, per Pro Football Focus. Matthews did have 14 special-teams tackles (second on the team). He too will be fighting for a roster spot.

As for the 2012 fourth-rounder from Tampa, the Eagles used that pick as part of the package to land DeMeco Ryans. The two teams also swapped third-round picks (Nos. 76 and 88).

So overall, the Eagles used compensation from the McNabb trade for Allen, Matthews and to a large degree, Ryans.

Kolb, meanwhile, recently signed a two-year, $13 million deal with the Bills, his third team in four seasons. When the Eagles dealt him to the Cardinals, they got cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a second-round pick in return. Rodgers-Cromartie is gone after two disappointing seasons, having signed with the Broncos as a free agent.

The Eagles ended up trading the second-round pick from the Kolb deal, moving down eight spots and selecting Vinny Curry. They also got a fourth-rounder from the Packers and took Brandon Boykin. Curry barely played in 2012 (89 snaps), and the Eagles will have to figure out where he fits in Billy Davis’ new defense.

Boykin looks like he’ll be a solid option as a nickel corner, and there’s a chance he could get a shot to play outside.

So overall for Kolb, they landed Rodgers-Cromartie, Curry and Boykin.

The question now is: Which of the players the Eagles landed for the two QBs figure into the team’s plans going forward?

As we mentioned above, Allen and Matthews will be fighting for roster spots. Curry is an unknown, given his limited action as a rookie and scheme fit. Ryans is a key piece, who played really well in 2012. And Boykin figures to be a solid contributor as well.

In other words, the Eagles basically got two starters on defense (when you consider how much they play nickel) for the two quarterbacks.

No one would argue that the Birds got the short end of either of the two trades – especially when you consider that McNabb threw 18 touchdowns and 17 interceptions in his post-Eagles career, while Kolb started just 14 games for the Cardinals.

We won’t know the true results from the deals until we see if Curry, Allen and Matthews can contribute in the coming seasons. But clearly, Andy Reid, Howie Roseman and company could have done more with the compensation the team received in return.

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  • docboy

    Maybe with clay matthews experience in Oregon will help him here…

    • Tyler Thierolf

      Casey?

  • daveH

    Sheil why do you think Andy is working this year after so many people speculated that he was burnt out last season (many years w eagles & lost his son) ?? it would’ve been veryfair & reasonable and a better business decision, for Andy not to work right?! I mean, he’d had still been paid the last 5 mil of his contract, rested and gotten a look at all the coaching jobs next year … thanks

  • JofreyRice

    Still hard to believe the comedy of errors in selecting Casey Matthews. It was a perfect storm of stupidity. Offensive line coach promoted to defensive coordinator. Eagles select 4th round middle linebacker (QB of the defense) based on the star power of his brother, to coordinate and implement Castillo’s “muscle-memory/hard-work/headbutt” scheme on the field. They give the guy the starting job in OTAs, and make no other plans for linebacker. I really can’t blame Casey–it’s not a crime that he’s not his brother. He’s a 4th rounder that didn’t pan out; it happens–a lot with this group, but it happens. You have to blame Reid and the Front Office for the mismanagement here.

    I don’t understand the national punditry’s optimism for Andy Reid in KC. True, he’s walking into a better situation, in terms of roster talent, and a weaker division, but he has really made some absurd and incompetent decisions in the past few years. I don’t see signing Alex Smith who has been an abject failure in any kind of pass heavy offense (what a perfect fit for Reid!) and then playing musical tackles with the #1 pick in the draft as any kind of upward swing past mediocrity. That being said, he’s a better head coach than Romeo Crennel. They won’t be picking #1 again any time soon.

    • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

      Juan was in a difficult situation as DC. The defense actually got worse after his dismissal. I agree on Alex Smith, that’s why I wouldn’t discount Reid Drafting Geno Smith. Reid is putting the old band back together in Kansas City.

      Reid just hired Brad Childress, Childress was part of the Offensive coaching group when Reid snagged McNabb. McNabb wasn’t highly coveted in that 99 draft, in fact Fans in Philly gave Reid and McNabb the business on television at Radio City Music Hall, another legendary moment from Phila fans. Brad Childress, Andy, and then Pat Shurmur tutored McNabb and the Eagles to 5 Conference Championship appearances.

      As a 5 decade loyal Eagles fan, I refuse to rag on Reid. I’ll alway appreciate his stay in Phila and making the Eagles both feared and respected over his 14 years. Its because of Reid I fly my Eagles banner. I sat through many loosing seasons before Reid, Vermile and Ryan

      • JofreyRice

        I understand that Castillo is a nice guy that got a crappy deal, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was a horrible coordinator. He presided over an historic number of come from behind collapses during his short tenure as a defensive coordinator. His best games were against back up QBs, and really only served to remove the Eagles from running for RG3, and prolong the Reid show another year after ratings demanded it to be cancelled. He was absolutely dumbfounded as Matt Stafford and Calvin Johnson lit Brandon Hughes and Kurt Coleman up, and had the brilliant idea of using Nnamdi-one-trick-press-man-pony as a rover CB/S like “Darren Woodson”. There’s a good reason why Rob Ryan got a job before Castillo. I doubt he ever coordinates a defense again. Reid really screwed him up, and that sucks for Juan, but I can’t re-write history to make him anything other than a guy in way over his head.

        They tried to sign another DC, couldn’t, and panicked and signed Castillo. Big mistake. They tried to cover up the deficiency by making the D-Line a separate entity under Washburn. He couldn’t put his ego aside, and his prowess at coaching was far outweighed by the negative aspects of his affect on the position group and locker room.

        I fly my Eagles banner because I’m from Philly. I think he did some good things here, and provided some excitement, but I could give a damn about Reid, quite frankly. I gotta call it like I see it.

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          Name one defensive coordinator who schemed to contain Calvin Johnson over the last two years and shut him down, especially in the closing moments of a game?

          You will probably never again see any of the linebackers Juan had play in the NFL again.

          Finally, it was a ridiculous strategy to place DRC and Nnamdi, two press cover guys on a defense playing zone, with zero representation at the Safety position. Might I add, trading Samuel who was painted as a cancer in the locker room, well we all know how that all unfolded and who the actual cancer to chemistry was in Phila, right.

          I don’t blame Juan, as much as I blame the cost saving measure to promote Juan instead of acquiring a seasoned Coordinator.

          • JofreyRice

            The Lions didn’t just come back in the “closing moments of the game” it was a sustained measure that lasted almost a quarter and a half. They moved Johnson around, and identified Coleman & Hughes as weak links, and attacked them with vertical routes they knew they couldn’t defend. It was an adjustment that Castillo couldn’t adjust against. It wasn’t only the Detroit game, that pattern had been repeated numerous times during come-from-behind wins.

            Not trying to misinterpret your argument, but by saying it was a ridiculous strategy to put Nnamdi and DRC in the coverages they were in, you’re agreeing that Castillo is at fault, and that he mismanaged the D. Unless there was some weird dynamic going on, he was the guy calling the defense, and deciding who’d be playing what. He was the guy that tabbed Casey Matthews to be the MLB of the Defense from the 4th round, and said Jamar Chaney was a “special” player at SAM. He didn’t just try to make chickensalad out of chickenshit, he believed in these bums.

          • GGeagle21

            Can’t wait to see the day that we cut Jamar Chaney

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I respect your argument, but I seriously doubt Juan had any decision making authority from the get go with that defense. I humbly believe Juan was Coordinator in name only. Juan did not come off as the guy who would make his dissatisfaction known in the media. I’ll always believe he kept his mouth shut and took one for the team.

          • JofreyRice

            Well, if that were the case, then I really couldn’t offer any valid criticism for Juan at all, because I’m operating on the assumption that he actually was the defensive coordinator. I’m only critiquing him based on the play of the Eagles defense, during the time he held the title of coordinator.

            Though I believe he was forced to accept the wide 9 as a d-line alignment, and was undermined by Washburn, I have seen no other evidence to suggest that Juan wasn’t the actual DC. You could be right that that was the situation Reid had arranged, but I’d still wonder why he’d be let go directly after the defense’s collapse against the Lions if he was just the figurehead, and not actually responsible for calling the D that led to that loss. And if he was actually competent and knowledgeable enough to run a defense, why hasn’t he gotten another job doing so? Bowles did, and the D actually performed worse under him, as you noted above.

          • GoBirds1

            Who the Hell do you think was running the D, Andy Reid and the man from moon? Please remember to take your medicine and lay off the hooch until after lunch.

          • GW.Fisher

            Juan was good at game planning, and adjusting at halftime with the film and time to digest it. On the fly in the 4th quarter is where he fell apart.

          • GW.Fisher

            Uh, Dutch, you do know that the “ridiculous strategy” you mentioned in your defense of Juan was coccocted by…uh… Juan, right?

        • GGeagle21

          terrible coordinator. The schemes were so vanilla, there wasn’t any disguising coverages…Obviously couldn’t communicate his scheme to the players since they were being covages left and right…Our secondary couldn’t execute SIMPLE schemes….Juan’s a nice guy, but he never had any business being our DC…and if you were going to make him a DC, he had no business trying to coordinate a dense with the wide9, something he had no experience in…Some of the decisions Andy and the Eagkes made in the past few years, we’re flat out STUPID!

        • southy

          Just gonna point out that Juan finished his first season ranked top 10 in total defense, and even through mid-season in 2012 we had one of the better pass defenses in the league. Opposing qb’s were completing something like 50% against us. For a guy in way over his head, that’s a pretty impressive feat, considering all of the “bums” we had on that side of the ball. The wheels didn’t come completely off until he was let go.

          • JofreyRice

            They played backup level QB’s the final quarter of the season. Mark Sanchez. Stephen McGee. Matt Moore/JP Losman. Rex Grossman. We saw what those wins meant. Once again, if Juan was a top 10 coordinator (assuming he was the coordinator in anything other than title) why did guys like Rob Ryan and Todd Bowles get jobs before he did? Come on, regardless of statistical oddities, you don’t really believe Juan Castillo is a top 10 coordinator, do you?

          • southy

            I expected someone to say that, but top 10 defense was for the complete 2011 season, not the final four games. Playing bad competition there at the end helped, but it helps every team regardless of where in the season it happens.

            I have always said it was a mistake to hire Juan, but it was also a mistake to fire him. If you’re going to put a guy in that position, expect some growing pains and let him learn from the mistakes. What you can’t say is he was in so far over his head that he was completely inept and that his defenses were terrible, because they weren’t. Like I said, to start the season our D was the only respectable part about our team. After Juan left and Bowles with his “great defensive football pedigree” took over, it was just pathetic.

          • JofreyRice

            He set a record for fourth quarter collapses in 22 games as coordinator. They allowed teams to score at an NFL record rate in the red zone. That’s more than growing pains. The line, which had been heavily invested in, and was pretty much autonomous from the rest of the defense, actually produced sacks. Castillo’s responsibility was to call coverage behind it, and to augment the wide 9 passrush with strategic blitzing (like, say, when the other team is throwing it all over you, and coming back).

            Once again, why did no one hire him a D-Coordinator? Don’t overthink it. There is a reason offensive line coaches don’t get promoted to defensive coordinators, and it’s not because everyone but Reid was “afraid” to do it. It was an asinine move, and Castillo fell on his face. Sucks that it happened to a nice guy, but you can’t look at the results and come up with anything different.

          • GoBirds1

            This isn’t D3 football, it is the NFL. You don’t hire a kid out of Junior college to be the CEO of a Billion dollar company, and you don’t hire an OL coach as DC in the NFL and give him a season and a half to learn and figure out what he is doing. Mr. Reid, Executive Vice President of Football Operations should have fired himself when he fired Jaun. And that should have all happened about 10 games before it did.

        • GoBirds1

          Dont feel so bad for Jaun, Reid gave him his biggest two-year payday of his career, $2million plus, not bad for an OLine coach.

      • GoBirds1

        Dutch when your memory fails you or you just dont know the facts, do you just make them up to tell a story? Feel free to verify your non-sense on the thing called the internet before you post your babble. The 1999 Draft and many drafts before and several after were held at the Theater at Madison Square Garden, not Radio City Music Hall. But thanks for sharing, nice story.

        • GGeagle21

          Y the hostility? telling people to take their meds, while you are the only one on the entire board spazzing out

  • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

    Nate Allen epitomizes why you don’t draft for need as opposed to drafting the Best Player Available. This is a strategy that seems to have not caught on with the Eagles. I’m certain Gamble approaches the draft and talent evaluation from a different perspective.

    2010 Rd 2, the Eagles took Nate Allen, and by passed…. Gronkowski, Rob, TE, Arizona, Lee, Sean, LB, Penn State, and Tate, Golden, WR, Notre Dame

    2010 Rd 3 Eagles took Te’o-Nesheim, Daniel, DE, Washington and by passed, Graham, Jimmy, TE, Miami

    • JofreyRice

      Who would they have gotten to play safety, tho? I get that “best player available” is a great way to fill your roster with high performers in theory, but you have to go out there and play the game with starters at 11 positions. They had Sean Jones and Macho Harris. They’d needed a safety for how long? I think “best player available (for us)” is a better way to describe how the Eagles should draft. They have to think about what their needs are, and they have to think about scheme fit.

      Look, I’m one of Allen’s biggest haters. I just think the guy’s instincts suck, which mean, as a safety, he sucks. As a prospect, though, he had everything you look for. He had the size, the athletic traits (combine stuff), he was productive in school. He had ball skills. He could tackle. He was pretty widely regarded as a good pick, and even flashed some good moments in his first season; though I think his defenders exaggerate those moments into this “golden rookie campaign, cut short by injury”.

      They had to have a safety, and they must have gambled that taking Graham/Allen in the 1st and 2nd would give them a better bang for their buck than Earl Thomas/another DE (I would have picked Carlos Dunlap) instead. I have no beef with them drafting a safety high, it’s just that the scouting and decision making process failed them with Nate Allen. I think that with the old regime, a passrushing fastball was always going to win out over a safety. I’m hoping that changes with Kelly.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        West Hopkins was a 2nd Rd, Who gave way to Andre Waters, UDFA, who gave way to Brian Dawkins who was a 2nd rd pick…… There were others, but those 3 are the legends in Eagles History who were noted to lay the wood in the Eagles backfield. Andre Waters, “Muddy Waters” has his own rule implemented in the NFL.

        The Eagles have gotten away from having that one safety who was actually a linebacker in a Defensive Back’s body that receivers throughout the league feared.

        Hopkins, Waters and Dawkins were the REAL Broad Street Bullies!!!!

        The Eagles problem was/is decision making….. the Answer to your initial question, after great debate and many auditions….. , NOBODY Allen wasn’t the solution……. They ended up with a backup….. starting next to a guy that’s a causality who jumps at fakes and play action.

        • GoBirds1

          Douche, I mean Dutch, you never cease to amaze with your lack of Eagles knowledge, or lack of brain cells, or both. The Legends you refer to are Wes Hopkins, not West. And Andre’s nickname was ‘Dirty Waters’, not Muddy. But thanks for playing, the short bus will be picking you up in a minute.

          • GW.Fisher

            Been a fan since 1971. And I’m sure we all called Andre Muddy Waters back in thee day. But then again we also understood civil discourse, so there you go…

          • GGeagle21

            Yeah, I wouldn’t waste to much time with someone who can’t even respectfully debate football with a fellow birds fan without making it personal

      • GoBirds1

        So what is your excuse for taking Jaquin Jarrett in the second round and Marsh in the third, They have Howie’s fingerprints all over those picks. Hopefully Howie has learned his role to stick with structuring contracts and leave the talent evaluation to the football guys.

        • JofreyRice

          I don’t really need an “excuse”. It was a bad choice in players, not a bad strategy in picking those positions (though I am still holding out some hope for Marsh, he was at least serviceable in relief of Nnamdi). They needed safeties and CB’s, and they spent high-ish picks on them. Certainly, investing a 2nd round pick in a player is trying to make the position better–that part I have no beef with. The problem was–and could still be–talent evaluation. You can’t have a secondary made up of only 1st round picks. As a GM, you have to be able to get at least guys that can start and contribute from other points in the draft.

      • DLRJ

        Jofrey makes a good point about the strategy. Most fans–including myself–were not so appalled at the time. And I understand why people hate on Allen now, but if I recall correctly, he was pretty solid before blowing out his patellar tendon. Not spectacular, but solid, especially for a rookie (and certainly better than Macho Harris and Co. from the prior season). You can’t predict when you draft a guy that he’s going to blow out his knee, and lots of guys never fully recover from and injury like that.

    • borntosuffer

      I thought Nate Allen was pretty highly rated while Jarrett, T’eo (neither part of Sheil’s discussion above) and Mathews were considered definite reaches.

      • GGeagle21

        Nate Allen was a terrible pick. He is a coverage safety who can’t hit..How in the world can you have a safety that doesn’t hit? laying the WOOD should be the prerequisite for any safety that comes to philly from here on out..somewhere along the way we came to the conclusion that we could either have a safety who hits, or a safety with coverage skills…what is wrong with aspiring for Safeties that can do BOTH, hit and Cover?….I’m so tired of watching Safeties get trampled, trucked, dragged and carried into the ENDZONE from 5 yards out. YOur safeties should be intimidators. They should be able to intimidate recievers coming across the middle fearing a big hit, and they should be ballhawks who a QB thinks twice before taking a shot down field….there is litally not a single attribute that’s intimidating in Allen or Coleman…If you can’t hit, play corner!!!

        • Nick

          Well, I’m not saying that it’s impossible to both hit and cover well, a few safeties do it, but it’s hard to do both when one gets easier with size and the other gets more difficult. Allen was highly rated as a coverage safety, and it was only a poor pick in hindsight. Also, he got placed in to Castillo’s ambiguous safety scheme where he was called a strong safety, when he really probably should have been used as a true free safety.

          • GGeagle21

            I will admit that Allen was certainly not put in the best place to succeed, but if you can’t punch someone in the mouth, first and foremost, than I don’t want you playing safety in this city. I need aggression from that position…I need intimidation bak there…im done with not so nasty Nate, and Tweedle dumb, Kurt Coleman….I have seen coleman get stampeded enough

          • DLRJ

            Hitting just isn’t the #1 priority with a safety anymore. Hey, I loved Brian Dawkins because he could cover and hit (and more), but not only is he a once in a generation player, but a lot of his hitting wouldn’t even be legal anymore. Especially given the new rules and how pass-happy the league is, it’s tough to argue that you should prioritize intimidation over coverage skills. And realistically, it’s rare to find players who really excel at both. I’d rather have what Nate Allen was projected to be than what someone like Roy Williams was (a big hitter who struggled in coverage). There just isn’t much of a role for guys like that anymore.

          • GGeagle21

            HITTING is a friggin prerequisite for playing the game…Hitting in football is like breathing in life..NO, I will never compromise on any defender besides a CB that cant hit! Defense is made to play aggressive. Safeties need to PUNISH recievers early in the game..hit them hard, and hit them often…so that come the 4th quarter, they have the smackdown you layed on them earlier in the back of their mind…which can help you in the 4th Quarter, in terms of key drops by the reciever you have been cracking in the mouth all game long….Hitting is the way you play defense. I need 9 guys that will make it hurt….not every player has the physical ability to be able to cover every single reciever or TE in the game…but there is NO EXCUSE for why you cant tackle, or hit someone with some agression. I dont think, we should just continue to excuse poor tackling and soft hitting. There are plenty of players that cant wait to punch someone in the mouth…Find me atleast 9 of them Please!…why shouldnt I expect to see Nate Allen hit someone like they are trying to take his livelyhood away from him? Has he not noticed the writing on the wall going into a contract year? Nate needs to hit someone as if he were protecting his mother or daughter! When you weigh 200lbs, and run fast, there is no excuse for not blowing someone up…..Sean Mcdermott era is over, The Juan expirement is done, Todd Bowles has been jettisoned….LETS NO LONGER Accept SOFT, non agressive defense in Philadelphia….I do not believe that players that can cover,hit hard and play violent aggressive football are extinct…so go find a couple of them!

      • CurrentlyUnknown

        If I recall, Allen was regarded as the 2nd or 3rd best safety that year, behind Earl. Most pundits (including Ray Didinger locally I believe) thought it was a solid to good pick. While revisionism is all well and good, it’s like the free agency spending bonanza. Most folks were thrilled with the decisions. When they didn’t work out, everyone says they never supported any of the moves.

        • DLRJ

          Totally agree. He seemed like a good pick at the time, and actually looked pretty solid–albeit not spectacular, and not an enforcer–until he blew out his knee. I find the comments that bemoan the folks we could have picked but didn’t to be pointless. There were guys taken higher than Nate that performed worse and good players taken lower. That doesn’t mean the decision at the time was a bad one.

    • JofreyRice

      yeah, but you have to realize why Gronkowski and Hernandez were drafted by New England. They needed TEs! They had Ben Watson, a 1st round disappointment, and Chris Baker. Those guys were both better blockers than anything else. Clearly, NE wanted to incorporate the TE into their intermediate pass game more, so they moved on the guys they needed to accomplish that.

      I’ll agree that NO was more about BPA. They had Shockey at the time, and he was still a good passcatcher. I think they kind of hit a homerun in the 3rd w/Graham, but he fit their mold of vertical TE’s.

      We had Celek, who had just been extended on a big money deal. You don’t use a second round pick to draft a #2 TE in Reid’s offense, because the #2 TE is just not that big a piece. I think the Eagles did want a more athletic, vertical TE to pair with Celek in theory, because they had made a half-hearted attempt to draft the injured Cornelius Ingram along with Harbor, but it never seemed to carry over into the regular season. How many balls did Clay Harbor even catch as an Eagle? 5, 10? If we had drafted Gronk, he would have had to outplay Brent for the starter’s role to see any meaningful snaps.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Had the Eagles selected the BPA, they would have had at the least trade pieces to get a formable Safety, the kind that Eagles Fans are accustomed to having police the defense. I would trade Celek today for a promise he’s so ill effective, in my opinion. Celek doesn’t come close to the Tight Ends the Eagles use to have. Celek is one of the worse Tight Ends in the NFL, his highlight features Ed Reed in the to common ball bouncing off of Celek’s hands in traffic. I’ll agree, the Eagles here of late didn’t value a Tight End. The Tight End prototype was Charlie Johnson and Keith Jackson….. Celek is quiet the fall off from either of those tight ends.

        • GGeagle21

          I tired of Celek. Seen all I needed to see from him this year..when your starting QB goes down, real players RALLY around the rookienQB…Celek came up small and plaid his worst football of his career. you can’t be one of the 3 starters left on offense, have a rookieQB under crazy pressure throw you accurate passes that bounce off your hands into defenders. That showed me all I neededto know about Celeks make up. Not to mention, it’s admirably that he plays thru Injury, but wtf, he is ALWAYS slowed down, playing thru one injury or the other. He is never healthy. I would trade him for pick to use on a TEnin an instant. NOt to mention, the next Gronk will be in then 2014 draft. Austin Sefrian Jenkins

        • MAC

          Celek is one of worst TE’s in the league! That is just incorrect man. Listen Celek is no Gronk or Graham, but he is far from worst in league. He has been a solid contributor and had a rough year last year. To condemn him as if he is useless or should be cut is just exaggerating a bad season and over reacting. In 2011 he had 62 catches 811 yards and 5 TD’s.That is pretty solid to good production. Celek had a bad year. but so did the entire team! I am not coming at you, but please be rational in your statements. Many fans hate on Celek, and I do not understand the reasoning. This roster has many many holes and as far as order of priority to replace or fill Celek as nowhere near the top IMO.

          • GGeagle21

            Because Chip will use more than 1 or 2 TE, Im fine with Celek on the roster…I would just rather see him as our #2 pass catching TE(Casey basically plays a totally different position). If Celek becomes our #2, than it means we have a heckuva weapon at #1…thats were I would like to see us evolve to. I dont expect anyone to jump celek this year, but I hope to draft a guy, that will eventually be better than Celek ever was. Celek is always hurt…Yes he plays through it, but is rarely ever close to full strength. I dont mean to sell Brent short, because he is always one of the leaders in TE, in terms of catches over 20yards…and he is decent on 3rd down conversions…but He isnt Elite, and as long as you dont have an elite player at a position, there is always room for an upgrade. Brent is certainly good enough to not warrant spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on a TE…but hopefully we find a hidden Gem that becomes better than Celek

    • Richard Colton

      Agree completely. Safety isn’t a valuable position, right? So you never take one high in the draft. And the Eagles took a hall of fame safety in the second round before. So if we keep spending 2nd round picks, it’s only a matter of time before we hit on another diamond in the rough hall of famer. Right?
      Just because a questionable strategy works once doesn’t mean it will again.

      • JofreyRice

        You’d describe using a 2nd round pick as searching “in the rough”? I kill them for their choices, but there are a lot of really good safeties in the NFL that were drafted in rounds 2-4. I’d love them to spend their first rounder on Vaccaro, but I’ll be cool with a safety in rounds 2 or 3; I consider that investing. They just made a really crappy choice in Nate Allen–they didn’t properly judge the drop off in talent between Earl Thomas and Nate. Turns out that their judgment was so poor that they picked a guy that might not even be an NFL player. I’m hoping they do a better job in selecting the right player this year.

        • Richard Colton

          I mean passing on Earl Thomas – best player available & safety because thinking a good safety can always be found in round #2. That’s square-peg round-hole thinking. That draft produced a number of really good safties – 2 stars in round #1 and a total gem in round 5 – Kam Chancellor. But no good safties in round 2,3,4 unless you count Taylor Mays (and I don’t).
          If one of the higher rated safties is there at 34 and we pick him, I won’t be upset. Just don’t reach.

          • JofreyRice

            I think all the good safeties in the NFL from round 2 show that you usually can find a good player, or at least a starter, in the second round. Hell, the Browns picked up one of the better young hitters in TJ Ward a pick after Allen. The Packers got Morgan Burnett, who has played pretty well for them in the third. The move to pick up Allen was just a case of a terrible evaluation process; it wasn’t just that he wasn’t as good a player as other safeties, his lack of instincts in coverage and piss poor tackling mean he’s probably not an NFL player, at all.

            Had the Eagles personnel department maintained their priorities but made the right call in terms of personnel in the first and second, they could have conceivably gotten a combo of JPP/TJ Ward. Would you still take Earl Thomas/a different DE over that? I don’t think I would, and I like Thomas a lot.

            In full agreement that I don’t want to see a Jarrett reach, and think it’s a point well made that they can’t just pick for need, and ignore all else.

          • Richard Colton

            Well I know for a fact that Jeff Laurie takes voluminous notes, and that Howie will draft a minimum of five hall of famers in the 2013 draft. It’s April – time to be optimistic

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          Allen was bad judgement, but they turned around the next draft and came back with the kid from Temple…….. that’s habit forming and a classic sign of insanity!!!! That is two wasted second round picks.

          That’s the curse for dumping Brian Dawkins

          • JofreyRice

            Yeah, or the curse of Howie Roseman. Oh wait, I forgot, REID ACTED ALONE. THERE WAS NO SECOND SHOT FROM THE GRASSY KNOLL.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        The two main attributes of a solid safety are heart and instincts. It’s not uncommon for a Safety to get the business end of a bomb, it’s uncommon that a good safety doesn’t come back with a vengeance. There’s going to be a play were he catches you crossing his middle and change your route running ideas. Receivers didn’t just skip, float across and through the Eagles defense.

        • Warhound

          “… the business end of a bomb” I like this phrase: “Sometimes you’re the club and sometimes you’re the harp seal”

  • http://twitter.com/ScottJ610 Scott J

    I want to throw-up.

  • thefadd

    I’ll take half of DeMeco Ryans and nothing else over what a bad TV commentator and the soon to be injured Buffalo QB have become so I think Andy & Co. sold pretty high.