Eagles To Hold Private Workout With Jarvis Jones

As part of the pre-draft process, the Eagles will work out Georgia outside linebacker Jarvis Jones.

Jones (6-2, 245) told reporters at his Pro Day that he has workouts set up with the Chiefs, Lions and Eagles.

The question with Jones is not production. He led the nation in sacks (14.5), tackles for loss (24.5) and forced fumbles (7) last year. But in 2009, he was diagnosed with spinal stenosis while at USC. Jones played two seasons at Georgia, but did not participate in workouts at the Combine in Indianapolis last month.

At his Pro Day, Jones ran a 4.92 40.

“I’m a football player,” Jones said after the workout, per NFL.com. “It’s about football, right? I’m a football player. That’s what I do. At the end of the day, you get those drills — I’m not saying they ain’t worth nothing — but you get those drills, running the 40 and all that stuff. You could get someone off the street who can run a 4.3, but they can’t play football. That’s easy.”

Projections for Jones vary. Many mocks still have him as a top-10 pick, but some see Jones falling further. The question will be how each individual team assesses him medically.

Brian Baldinger of 97.5 The Fanatic and NFL Network thinks Jones would be a great fit for the Eagles at No. 4.

“If Jarvis Jones is there, I mean, to me, my mother can scout Jarvis Jones,” he told PhiladelphiaEagles.com. “He’s the best defensive player in this draft. He’s actually the best 3-4 outside linebacker in this draft. You put him opposite Connor Barwin, I’d be shocked if at the end of the season, you look up and the two of them don’t have a combined 20 to 25 sacks. I’d be shocked.

“If Jarvis Jones is there, it’s a no-brainer for me.”

The Eagles have several options at outside linebacker: Barwin, Trent Cole, Brandon Graham and Vinny Curry. But if they see a difference-maker at No. 4, they won’t hesitate to pull the trigger. It’s been repeated many times, but given the current state of the roster, Howie Roseman and company are committed to taking the best player available.

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  • Sensei

    Glad to hear that they’re giving him a workout

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    It’s not the numbers that put me off, it’s the effort. There’s no arguing that he’s one of the the best in the draft, but why not put the proper effort into preparing for the draft? I have doubts this kid can run faster than a 4.9. If he gets that down to a 4.7 then he solidifies him self as a top 5 pick, but instead he pulls this “it ain’t football” crap. Not impressed.

    You can’t just rely on talent in the NFL. Everyone has talent there. It’s who puts in the best work.

    And I couldn’t disagree with Baldy more. You draft Jones so you can leave Curry, Graham and Cole to do what exactly?

    • JofreyRice

      I think Baldinger is a no-brainer when it comes to analysis. He should get back to being a bad influence on Ray Didinger.

    • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

      You could say the same thing about Dion Jordan who everyone is so enamored by yet his production wasn’t even that great.

      • xlGmanlx

        Or he could be the potenial next “Bergey/Bednarik”, Franchise player in LB for this team moving to a 3-4/Hybrid “new age” approach? Why so negative, that regime is in Brown’s and Chief’s turf.

        • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

          I’m not trying to be negative, i’m just saying that there is always something to bang on a player for. When evaluating a player, its all in what you are willing to accept. Dion Jordan was not a very productive player in college but is a physical freak but Jarvis Jones was super productive in college but didn’t put up the physical numbers that Dion Jordan did in underwear. And my tendency is to lean on the side of the guy who put up monster numbers vs a guy who didn’t make a ton of plays but is really athletic and expected to be a monster at the next level. And again, I do like Dion Jordan, im just very cautious about him.

          • Tom W

            He came in as a te and switched to defense for god’s sake. He was asked to drop into coverage 45 percent of the time and he tore his labrum half way through his last season before stanford and usc. explanations for his “lack of production.” Its not a lack of anything if he was asked to do other things for gods sake. sacks arent the end all be all.

  • isaiah520

    doesn’t he have spinal stenosis? if he’s that guy, i’ll pass…

    • over the top

      why do comment when you don’t take the time to read the article? ….
      “The question with Jones is not production. He led the nation in sacks (14.5), tackles for loss (24.5) and forced fumbles (7) last year. But in 2009, he was diagnosed with spinal stenosis while at USC”

      • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

        On top of that, he was cleared medically. Doctors said he never even had it. I know everyone is enamored with Dion Jordan’s athleticism, but Jarvis Jones vs Dion Jordan in terms of production is just not even remotely close. I like this kid. Good attitude and great football player. I’d snatch him up at 4.

        • xlGmanlx

          That may be true, but you can’t couch height. Coaches coach and players play, If Jordan is smart enough to be in the NFL, he has the bigger upside and more raw athletic ability. It isn’t just about production, let alone that he proved his toughness with a shoulder injury and didn’t make any excuses.

          The SEC doesn’t get 100% of its players drafted, there is nothing wrong with Jordan being the best long term fit, especially if you buy into Chip (I was going to say “Chip Kelly’s heroes, but we all know the Bills in the 90′s already made that poster material) Kelly’s principles and surgical approach. You should get excited at feeling on the cusp and potential of witnessing Jimmy Johnson Miami to NFL 2.0.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Haha lets not get ahead of ourselves on being this powerhouse. We have to wait and see not that Chip Kelly doesn’t excite me. But Height is not the end all be all, if that was the case Russell Wilson would not have tore it up. He was super productive in college despite his size. And people act as if Jarvis Jones is tiny. He’s basically the same weight as Jordan and only 3 inches shorter. I just have a hard time passing on a guy who wreaked havoc in the toughest conference and had his best games against the best teams in college football. Regardless of what his number say the guy was just an animal but we want to take a flyer at number 4 on a guy we hope can be better than or at least the same as Jarvis Jones. Again I like Dion Jordan, but I just don’t see him being what Jones is going to be regardless of the combine numbers. You can’t teach height, but you either have elite skills or you don’t. There’s only so much teaching you can do before you realize a guy just doesn’t have it.

          • xlGmanlx

            Jordon is about 5″ taller than Jones and faster. He has proven he is athletic and switched positions on College from Offense to Defense. He is long and has versatility and can add about 20 lbs and be on the field for all snaps. I don’t think it is draft hype, but only time will tell. I’m not saying they are a powerhouse, but the legacy mindset is no longer here and it has a totally different energy. Howie and Chip have had a very productive offseason on paper, and from all accounts Jordan is a smart coachable player, I don’t see what isn’t to like about him.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            But you get me wrong, I don’t dislike Jordan but it baffles me that Jones is so highly criticized and for two straight years lead his conference as the best pass rusher in the country including leading the NCAA his final year. Yet somehow because Dion Jordan can run fast and is tall, he is better and is going to be better than Jarvis Jones. Jones doubled Jordan’s production in both their final years and they play the same position. I get that Jordan is athletic but bottom line for me is MAKE PLAYS and Jordan did not do that. That is the sole reason why I am cautious about drafting him. It would be different if he showed flashes of being a dominant player which I believe a number 4 overall pick should be I just don’t feel like i’ve seen any indication that he is going to be a monster at his position. Basically as it currently stands, I can’t see him being a pro bowler or Top 10 NFL OLB and if that’s the case, then I wouldn’t dream of taking him at 4.

          • xlGmanlx

            If College success was what predicted future NFL success, agreed. As we both know, that couldn’t be further from the truth. One of the things to evaluate is pure physical measurables, and in that aspect Jordan is the better athlete. I never said to discount Jones, but more to say that Jordan isn’t a draft climber due to false numbers. The tape shows he was productive even with an injury, he did however open eyes with his 40 time to go along with the tape. Both could be studs or duds, are any variation there of.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            I agree that it can be a crap shoot from year to year with the draft. The thing is though you can apply those same principles to Jarvis Jones. People are saying that he’s slow but putting on the tape you can see that that couldn’t be further from the truth. And to be absolutely clear again, I do not dislike Dion Jordan but in my personal opinion, his tape does not add up to a guy that is going to be a force in this league. Sure you can see he made some plays here and there but I feel like he was largely ineffective. That’s not to say that he won’t be great in the NFL im just saying based off of what I have seen I am not inclined to believe that. On the flip side, despite jones’ pure measurables, on tape, I saw him not only as a much better PASS RUSHER, but I saw him as a more consistent PLAYMAKER. So I do not think that Dion Jordan is going to be a terrible player, that’s not what I am saying. I am saying that I want someone that I have confidence that they can make plays, and Dion Jordan just didn’t do it consistently enough for me.

          • GoBirds1

            i don’t watch a lot of college ball, but did you see the SEC championship game. Granted it was ‘Bama, but they schemed Jones out of the game and over top of him the entire game.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Yeah same for me. I don’t claim to be the most knowledgeable when it comes to ball and I really don’t watch a whole lot of college ball. But the fact that Jones seemed to get double teamed quite a bit in the Bama game which at least to me signifies that he is that good of a player. And even though both Jordan and Jones probably need to strengthen up more in the NFL, Jones looks like the stronger player at the point of attack.

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          I share your sentiments in hole. After watching Georgia play this year. Jarvis Jones was the most disruptive defender in all of Football. His slow 40 speed was not an impediment. This kid changes the dynamics of a game. If not for Dion Jordan’s workout at the combine there is nothing in the tapes of Oregon games that makes you notice him, conversely it’s the other two linebackers at Oregon who have the stats and jump out at you on the game tapes. Watch Oregon vs Sanford and notice the Sanford Tight End abuse the Oregon defense. If Jordan is a solid defender of the pass it was not evident against Sanford or USC

          • Token

            I agree. Dont think you can pass up high production against top talent for a guy who looked better in shorts. But Kelly likes speed and size so I dont know what he will do.

            My thinking lately has been that if its a sure thing that the rookie would start week 1, Id be fine with Smith at 4. Not a huge fan of him. But just the fact that Id never have to watch Vick again and I could fully get behind this team again would be worth it to me. I get excited about this new era only to remember what a mess we still have playing QB.

            Side note. Has anyone seen what Genos numbers against the blitz were? I havent seen them. I think thats a important stat.

          • Tom W

            You keep posting every week about your dislike for Dion Jordan. We get it. And you keep posting about his play against stanford and usc — just stop. He tore his labrum during the Colorado game a week before stanford and 2 weeks before USC. So stop basing your opinion and posts on those 2 games. Second, Jones was only productive for Georgia, not USC. Third, Jordan was asked to drop back a shitload more than Jones and cover wrs/tes so his production will be lower. Fourth, Jordan height and size allows him to put on 20-35 pounds of muscle w ease ….Jones’s smallish frame doesn’t allow for that. Fifth, Jones’ lack of size makes him a liability against the run and a situational passrusher ala Bruce Irvin on obvious passing downs. Sixth, Jordan’s cover skillz are lightyears ahead of jones and as a SAM LB he will be asked to drop atleast 30 percent of the time and even more as our nickel/dime lb w Kendricks. Seven, Jones has a serious medical condition that could seriously limit the length of his career. look at Marcus McNeil. He was cleared by his own doctor he hired. Not by the team doctors. redflag. Eight, he didn’t come to combine. redflag. Nine, he sucked at this proday. redflag. I dont care about his times — I am concerned it shows he isn’t into preparing/putting in the time/working out — the little things the nfl game calls for vs college. I wouldn’t take him in top 10.

          • Token

            Well, you have to bring up those games because he played such low level competition most of the time. Yet, he still didnt produce. If this guy is such a freak athlete he really should have flashed more dominance against the competition. Then you throw in the fact that he didnt realize he was going to be a defensive player until only a few years ago.

            I get it. Hes very interesting given his measurables. But the guy didnt produce very much. Hes not a very good pass rusher. He has no moves.

            Now your argument that he could be a good coverage LB may be right. However, you dont take a guy like that at #4. If your taking a OLB in the top of the draft its because you think he is a good pass rusher. You can see games where Jordan is against tackles he should be abusing, and getting held in check with relative ease.

            I dont see how a team can put him in the top 5 on their board based on how he played football last year. The combine would have to weigh heavily into their evaluation for that to happen IMO.

          • JofreyRice

            I’m really hoping Kelly already got his super-athletic SAM project in Free Agency, in the form of Connor Barwin. His profile is actually really similar to Dion Jordan’s: originally a TE, and got moved to the defensive side of the ball.

            I’m more into production in games, but for people that are into combine testing numbers and all that, Barwin is intriguing.

            At 6’4, 255, Barwin ran a 4.66, did the 3Cone in 6.87, the 20 yard shuttle of 4.18, jumped 128.0 inches in the Broad Jump, with a 40.5 inch vert.

            Jordan, at 6’6, 248, ran a 4.6, did the 3Cone in 7.02, the 20 yard shuttle in 4.35, jumped 122.0 inches in the Broad Jump, and posted a 32.0 in the vert.

            I think you could make the case that Barwin is the better athlete, based on the results, if you put a lot of stock in that. He’s better in every category except for being slower on a 40 yard dash by 6 hundreths of a second.

            Barwin doesn’t have nearly the amount of experience in coverage that Jordan has, but by the same token, Jordan doesn’t have as much experience rushing the passer. As you pointed out, you don’t draft a coverage LB in the top 5. You draft a passrusher that can cover.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Geez I didn’t realize that Barwin had a 40 inch vertical. Lob City lol. From the NFL.com article I saw, he played basketball at Cincinnati not that that automatically indicates that someone is athletic but at the same time it kind of does.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Those are impressive measurables for Barwin, I didn’t know he was so athletic. He beats guys who don’t study, A Tackle not up on his competition wouldn’t be ready for somone so swift.

          • Tom W

            He was in the top 10 rankings of alot of experts before the combine. Most everyone knew he would put up big numbers at the combine. Yes they are projecting him going forward. And I am weary of taking that type of guy at 4. But I am also very concerned of Jones at 4 – health, coverage skills, combine/pro-day redflags for work ethic. Personally, i wouldnt take either at 4 and I don’t think the eagles will either. Much safer productive healthy guys w Floyd, Joeckel, Fisher, even Star. The interesting thing will be what they do if they trade to 8 w the Bills and Jones and Jordan are both there. Personally, I am going Jordan bc Jones projects as a situational pass rusher like bruce irvin w the potential short career like Marcus McNeil. At the least, Jordan is a very good SAM who can cover Gronk, spy RGIII, set the end on running downs w/ 10-15 lbs and rush the passer (even just okay).

          • Token

            I would think you would be concerned about Jordan weighing the same as Jones even though he is 6’6? I agree that if I had a choice, I wouldnt take either at 4. But if forced id take the production over the gym shorts.

            You are also seeming to assume a rushing OLB has to be good in coverage. Thats not the case. I think Jones coverage skills matter almost not at all to teams looking at him as a top 10 pick. Thats not the purpose teams want him for. He would be dropping back so little in most schemes it wouldnt matter.

            This type of over thinking by teams based on production vs combine results is how good teams generally stay good. Im sure Jones will fall and some team like the Steelers will snatch him up much later than they should be able to.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            And the thing is, people will in the end kick themselves when Jarvis Jones is terrorizing Qbs on a stud team like the Steelers or the Pats. And I agree, people tend to overthink when they see a guy run well and compare him to a guy who actually went out and played extremely well despite having not as great combine numbers. Its the perpetual argument every year, workout warrior vs production.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Vontez Burfick is a perfect example. Slow 40 time at the combine, horrible workout and personal issues pretty much made him undraftable. He went to Cincinnati an Undrafted Free Agent. They can’t get him off the field.

          • JofreyRice

            The spinal stenosis is a sticking point for me. I don’t give a damn about his 40 time, honestly, but the point remains that USC turned him away from their program because of it.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            And they definitely regretted that decision.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Adding weight was a disaster for JPP. 2012 he amassed 6 sacks and was not nearly as disruptive as he was his rookie year. We shall see if he can return to being as productive in 2013, I doubt he’ll be as effective as he was his first year. Linemen have two years of figuring out his game.

          • Token

            I agree with your point. You cant assume a player is going to effectively put on weight.

          • Tom W

            “Jeremiah: Jordan built for NFL

            Dion Jordan is the best pass-rushing prospect in this draft.
            He has every tool you look for when projecting a successful NFL edge
            rusher: ideal height/length, an explosive first step and the ability to
            bend around the edge. Jordan also flashes the ability to turn speed into
            power, though that part of his game is still a work in progress as he
            continues to get stronger.

            The only knock on Jordan is that he lacks “elite” sack
            production (posting just five in 2012). But Jordan was a hybrid defender
            in Oregon’s scheme, forced to drop into coverage on a considerable
            number of plays. I researched all of the top pass rushers in the NFL,
            and it was interesting to check out each player’s sack total from his
            final
            college season. Jordan stacks up favorably with several of them: Aldon
            Smith (5.5), Cameron Wake (1), Clay Matthews (4.5), Geno Atkins (3) and
            Chris Clemons (1). All of those players lacked top-shelf production but
            possessed pass-rushing traits that translated at the next level.

            I like Jarvis Jones as a prospect, but his poor pro-day workout
            has NFL brass concerned. Those who defend Jones’ lackluster showing
            point to his statistical success in the SEC, where he set the pace in
            sacks in each of the past two seasons. That motivated me to do some
            research and figure out how previous sack artists from this conference
            have fared in the NFL. Check out the SEC sack leaders before Jones,
            along with their highest single-season sack totals in the NFL (listed in
            parentheses):

            2005: Willie Evans, Mississippi State (0).
            2006: Jamaal Anderson, Arkansas (3), tied with Derrick Harvey, Florida (3.5).
            2007: Marcus Howard, Georgia (1.5), tied with Greg Hardy, Mississippi (11) and Wallace Gilberry, Alabama (7).
            2008: Carlos Dunlap, Florida (9.5), tied with Eric Norwood, South Carolina (1).
            2009: Antonio Coleman, Auburn (0).
            2010: Nick Fairley, Auburn (5.5).

            It’s
            pretty obvious that college sack production — even in the nation’s
            premier conference — doesn’t necessarily translate to NFL success.

            Jordan’s skill set makes him a much better fit for the NFL game.”

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            The Difference between Jordan and Irving is that Irving at West Virginia build a reputation as a sack master at defensive end, Irvin stood out on tape and in games. He was projected as a OLB in the 2012 draft, he was rated top 40 but considered a reach at 16. He worked out rather well for the Seahawks in their rotation on the defensive line.

          • Tom W

            Re-read my post plz. I wasn’t comparing jordan and irvin. was comparing irvin and jones. While everyone is all enamored with sacks and that’s fine, there is no guarantee Jones will put up elite sack numbers in the pros like he did in the SEC … see. Dan Jeremiah’s article for proof. Also, Jordan’s versatility could potentially create more sacks for other players — by being able to line him up all over the formation and create doubt in the qb’s and oline and rb’s mind where the rush is coming from, by being able to use him (a lb) to cover elite tes like gronk and graham (and not a safety), by being able to use him to shadow RGIII rather than your ilb or safety, by being able to keep him in on all 4 downs for passrush or coverage … he offers alot more and I believe Chip would be drafting him for more than just his ability to pass rush …which scouts like Mike Mayock and Dan Jeremiah, and Kiper seem to believe could be on par with and Aldon Smith at best or Julian Peterson and worst. Like Irvin, Jones’s size and speed limits what you can do with him and allows the offenses and qb to move the blocking scheme to take him away like Alabama did. Like I said, I wouldn’t take either at 4, but I also would certainly not define Jordan as a workout warrior.

          • JofreyRice

            I think there are a ton of differences between Irvin and Jordan, one of them being natural passrush ability and acumen. Irvin’s draft stock suffered because WVU switched to a base 3-3-5 defense and asked him to defend the run a lot, playing head up on the tackle in a 5 technique. He is not that guy, as evidenced by his piss poor play against the run in Seattle. The 8 or 10 sacks he amassed aside, he was an utter liability against the run this year.

            The Seahawks looked past the awkward scheme fit in ’11 and back at his ’10 games, where he was allowed to rush the passer from a 7 or 9 technique on the weakside. They saw that he had the acceleration/flexibility/vision combo critical for a passrusher, combined with the fact that he racked up 14 sacks playing the position situationally, and decided to role the dice that he could be their LEO of the future.

            I can’t say I see that from Jordan. There is no tape you can find where he consistently beats top tier OT’s around the edge. I understand that he was in coverage a lot, but he really wasn’t even that productive when he rushed the passer. Look at the list of opponents he put sacks up against this year: Fresno State. Tennessee Tech. Washington State, and Arizona State. Not exactly a murderer’s row of opponents.

            I just read this metrics breakdown concerning the top passrushers in this class, and Jordan doesn’t fare well, even with opportunities and pressures factored in. You might be interested:

            http://thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/metrics-breakdown-top-pass-rushers-tier-1

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            To be fair I pass rushing moves can be taught. Most pass rushers coming out of college don’t have the full rep of moves so I wouldn’t knock Jordan for that. But simply that fact that the guy just hasn’t made a ton of plays whether in coverage or rushing the passer bothers me. We can look back at JPP a few years ago who was new to the position but he FLASHED the abilities to be at least a good pass rusher at the next level. I just feel like I haven’t seen the flashes from Dion Jordan. And Jarvis Jones played at his best when he played against the best teams and even in their bowl game.

          • JofreyRice

            haha, I actually wanted none of JPP, either, because of lack of consistent production in college. That’s what’s scary about a guy like Jordan. You’re afraid you select him and he never develops to his athletic potential, or you’re afraid you pass him up and he blossoms for someone else.

            I like the idea of gambling on him better where the Giants did it, at 14 or 15 or whatever, coming off of a mediocre season. At #4, considering how bad the Eagles have been for the past 2 years, and how totally bereft of talent the roster is at this point, I’d rather go with a safer bet, and see what Kelly and Billy Davis can do with the raw tools Connor Barwin brings to the table at SAM.

          • Tom W

            good fair pts. I wouldn’t take either of them at 4.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            The ideal scenario for me personally is if we can dupe either the Bills or Cards into trading up to our spot to grab Geno Smith. Take a kings ransom of picks from them but i’d still take Jarvis Jones. The guy is just a pass rush dynamo. There isn’t any indication at least to me that he won’t be a great pass rusher. Can someone tell me why he won’t be a great pass rusher and why Dion Jordan will?

          • Tom W

            I don’t think people are arguing Jones isnt a better pass rusher, I believe they are saying that Jordan would be an uber-athletic SAM who could cover the best tes in the league, play all 4 downs, spy the athletic qbs, and projects to be a great pass rusher (Mike Mayock who I deeply respect – keeps saying Aldon Smith in 2 years and Kiper has him ranked 6th and says he is fine at his current weight for 10 sacks a yr). If Jones is the predator-role, we already have graham, cole, curry (and make Barwin) for that role also. And Jones’ coverage skills are not a strength so he doesn’t project to the SAM role (along w being short to be expected to cover a te). I’m torn but you guys are making fair pts that make me think twice.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Yeah and I get that, but Cole, Curry, and Graham are unproven as 3-4 LBs leaving Barwin being the only one with prior experience. I don’t personally agree that Jones has no coverage skills. He seemed to be capable of working in space. I don’t particularly care if he can cover a TE one on one which I don’t believe that any LB can do really well, but in zone coverage I don’t see why he would have a problem. And because of his 40 time people are going to act as if the guy moves like a snail similar to when Beyonce Lip Sync’d the National Anthem, people then started questioning whether she could sing or not which made me laugh uncontrollably.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            While all your points are valid, I have comments for them. Jarvis Jones played 1 season as a freshman at USC so to knock his play there to me seems ridiculous. Despite Jordan being asked to drop back a lot the fact remains that he just did not make that many plays. If he’s in coverage, where are the interceptions and things like that. whether in coverage or rushing the passer, he needs to make plays at least in my opinion if you are taking a guy at 4. No one knows how adding weight to his frame will effective him as a player, we can speculate and envision but you can’t say that for sure even though I agree that he probably can and definitely should add muscle. Jarvis Jones is the same size as Von Miller and is bigger than Patrick Willis so im not quick sure how he is considered small. And Dion Jordan is and was not a run defender so how can you say that about Jones who btw had significantly more stops behind the line of scrimmage than Jordan. And with the spinal stenosis, yeah it was his doctor but you make it seem like a conspiracy as if a doctor is going to lie and say he never had it. Not going to the combine is overrated and does not to me indicate that he has no effort. And you can’t just show up to a college game and lead the SEC in sacks 2 years in a row, be 2nd in the NCAA in sacks in 2011 and 1st in the NCAA in sacks in 2012. I don’t get how he has no work ethic. No one has said anything even remotely in that respect about him. With that said im just nervous that Jordan will be the next dontari poe. A guy who wasn’t super productive in college but shined just because he went to the combine and pro day and performed well.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            Based on the games that I saw, this kid didn’t stick out. I don’t see this kid beating NFL Tackles. He could never get around a healthy Peters. If you watch Oregon’s games and not the highlights of Jordan you don’t see a No. 4 pick.

            I’ve not heard one respected analysis verify this kid’s position based on tape. Some have mentioned his lack of productivity and lent his pass defense, similar to what’s being said about Barwin’s lull in production in 2012, as the reason he has not racked up respectable numbers. But, as you mentioned when facing respectable talent with a good passing attack, he didn’t perform as you would expect a No.4 pick should. The evidence is no there.

            I have nothing against this kid Jordan. I just don’t think the gamble of taking him at 4 is a good choice.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Haha to be fair, there aren’t many current NFL guys who are getting around a healthy Jason Peters. Demarcus Ware and JPP couldn’t do it. They have to move inside or to the other side to be more successful. I’m excited for his return, after the season before he was injured, I was puzzled why he was only ranked 42 on the Top 100 list after the dominant season he had. He played like a Top 10-20 player in the league that year.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            I compare Jordan’s game against USC and Sanford simply because both schools fielded players who are rated in the 2013 draft on offense who directly contested Jordan.

            If not for the combine workout Jordan would not be mentioned in draft circles. You vouch for is pass defending skills, well in games were comparable talent, capable of being consider for the draft were his opponents he was not a factor. Pointly, there is no game tape showing he is a justifiable top draft pick. Considering Jordan is going down the same road the Eagles took in drafting Mamula.

            Jordan is not in the same league as Jarvis Jones. If you never looked at a stat, or sprint times and based assessments on game footage we would never hear Jordan’s name and be impressed with Jones. Jordan wasn’t the best or second best linebacker on that Oregon defense. I watch a ton of College Football.

            I’ll continue to say that if I think it prevents another Mamula debacle. There are better options at pick 4 than reaching for a workout warrior.

          • Tom W

            Jesus Christ — Jordan tore his labrum the week before the Stanford and USC games … so please stop relying only on (if at all) the scouting report for those games …

            And you are completely wrong about Jordan and draft circles — he was consistently being tagged in the top 12 (if not top 8) of every draft expect I saw since late january… he may have been bumped up by the novice draftnik, but everyone who scouts professionally already had him going top of the first rd. So just stop w the combine/workout warrior blah blah argument.

            You can’t just look at game tape for a kid who is new to a position, is still learning his position, and can still get a lot stronger/bigger. You can’t teach height, size, and speed … “Jordan’s skill set makes him a much better fit for the NFL game.”

            Jordan is a completely different player than Jones … his size, agility, speed (not to mention elite coverage skills) offer a versatile uber athlete who can play 4 positions on your defense, cover elite tes, spy athletic qbs, and stay on the field for all 4 downs. If scouts could project Aldon Smith’s success at the nfl level — they can project Dion Jordan .. much like Mayock did in January.

            Per Dan Jeremiah .. who did the digging on Jordan vs Jones and nfl measureables vs sec production ….

            “Jeremiah: Jordan built for NFL

            Dion Jordan is the best pass-rushing prospect in this draft.
            He has every tool you look for when projecting a successful NFL edge
            rusher: ideal height/length, an explosive first step and the ability to
            bend around the edge. Jordan also flashes the ability to turn speed into
            power, though that part of his game is still a work in progress as he
            continues to get stronger.

            The only knock on Jordan is that he lacks “elite” sack
            production (posting just five in 2012). But Jordan was a hybrid defender
            in Oregon’s scheme, forced to drop into coverage on a considerable
            number of plays. I researched all of the top pass rushers in the NFL,
            and it was interesting to check out each player’s sack total from his
            final college season. Jordan stacks up favorably with several of them: Aldon Smith (5.5), Cameron Wake (1), Clay Matthews (4.5), Geno Atkins (3) and Chris Clemons (1). All of those players lacked top-shelf production but possessed pass-rushing traits that translated at the next level.

            I like Jarvis Jones as a prospect, but his poor pro-day workout
            has NFL brass concerned. Those who defend Jones’ lackluster showing
            point to his statistical success in the SEC, where he set the pace in
            sacks in each of the past two seasons. That motivated me to do some
            research and figure out how previous sack artists from this conference
            have fared in the NFL. Check out the SEC sack leaders before Jones,
            along with their highest single-season sack totals in the NFL (listed in
            parentheses):

            2005: Willie Evans, Mississippi State (0).
            2006: Jamaal Anderson, Arkansas (3), tied with Derrick Harvey, Florida (3.5).
            2007: Marcus Howard, Georgia (1.5), tied with Greg Hardy, Mississippi (11) and Wallace Gilberry, Alabama (7).
            2008: Carlos Dunlap, Florida (9.5), tied with Eric Norwood, South Carolina (1).
            2009: Antonio Coleman, Auburn (0).
            2010: Nick Fairley, Auburn (5.5).

            It’s
            pretty obvious that college sack production — even in the nation’s
            premier conference — doesn’t necessarily translate to NFL success.

            Jordan’s skill set makes him a much better fit for the NFL game.”

          • GGeagle21

            Tom Wat brought some serious HEAT! Good stuff man, that’s how you bring it…I’m it’d of fools devaluing Dion. Too many FANBOYS. And what I mean by Fanboys is fans who don’t factor the human element into their analysis. Do people understand what type of level of understanding for the game that you need to have to be able to line up all over the place and do a million different things to help your team win? And for him to do that only being on the defensive side of the ball for a couple seasons, and making that switch on the fly playing against some steep competition, I can’t say enough about how impressive that is. I love Jarvis Jones, but his body won’t even compare to Dions in 3 years..we talk about Jordan’s speed and length, but the most IMPRESSVE part of Dion Jordan is his body control, and ability to bend, getting under, and around OT’s….This kid is such a unique prospect, that you just can’t pass him up. if you pass on Jordan, their literally is nothing like him in the later rounds, and their wasn’t even anything like him in free agency. No prospects offers more versatility in terms of Disguising a defense than Jordan..and that’s just so valuable. I think it would be a very good idea to have someone who can cover Jasn Witten twice a year, which Dion will be able to do the first minute he steps on an nfl field, better than any OLB on our defense INCLUDING Barwin who I adore…when you combine that value, with him having the potential to be an elite pass rusher in two years…well it’s gng to be very difficult to find the next Dion Jordan…What other prospect can we say that about? if we pass on Fisher, we can g Long,Menelek,Armstead later. heck we can still get Winston or Andre Smith..next year Lewan and Mathews are coming out….how long will we have to wait to find another Dion Jordan? This kid already put on 10lbs since he played in College and owned the combine..I hope people understand what it means for a kid to have played against top competition like Stanford, and owning the combine, all with a torn Labrum. he barely missed any time..

            let’s alsoot sell short how NASTY our LB speed would be when we go to our Nickle package, when Sopo comes off the field and we will go back to a 4man line, playing a 4-2-5.. What team will have more Nickle LB speed than Jordan and Kendicks? Also, who in the world can you find that will be able to spy RG3 better than this 6’6 Burner with a crazy wingspan?…there is just so much you can do with this kid, and we have the fortune of knowing his Charecter..knowing that he will give up his sack numbers for the good of the team…There is NO GUESSING involved in terms of his Charecter,..yet, other prospects you will be relying on interviews which they we coached up by their agents. not only, would I draft Dion…but I also don’t see any way that Chip allows us to pass on him, if he is still on the board…if I’m wrong, I get the comfort of knowing that know one knew him better than Chip, so I can be comfortable with us passing on him, than I would be if say Andy Reid was still coach…Let’s just hope that Gus Bradley’s need for a Predator, allows him to pass on Dion. I have the gut feeling that Bradley goes with Ziggy. he has the NFl Densive Clout to take on a prospect like that at 2

      • isaiah520

        ADD

  • http://twitter.com/ScottJ610 Scott J

    There’s a lot of TE’s in the league that can run a better 40. How are his cover skills?

    • Sensei

      Supposedly pretty good according to what I’ve read

    • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

      Patrick Willis ran a 4.3 40 and can’t cover anyone.

      • JofreyRice

        Hunh? Patrick Willis can’t cover anyone? You’re kidding, and I’m missing it, right? He’s literally one of the best coverage linebackers in the league. He’s the guy that SF uses to match up with TE’s.

        • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

          Just because they use him there doesn’t mean that he is that great at it. Willis is still the best MLB in the league but his strength is against the run. He is not a complete liability in coverage but that is not his strength. There are LBs better than him in coverage.

          • JofreyRice

            Wow, so you are serious? OK, well, you get points for creativity. Willis is a fantastic coverage LB. The only other ILB close to him in terms of athletic movement in mirroring receivers and having a feel for zone is probably Lawrence Timmons. Willis effectively erased Aaron Hernandez in the 49ers / Patriots week 15 primetime matchup. DeMeco Ryans, Bobby Wagner, and Darryl Washington are all very good ILBs, and I don’t think I’d want any one of them matched up on Aaron Hernandez 1 on 1. When did you see him getting beaten in coverage regularly?

            SF is one of the only 3-4 Teams that keeps both their ILBs on the field for their extra DB package, and that’s specifically because of their ability to cover. Bowman takes the backs, and Willis takes the TE’s. That’s a hell of a responsibility, and Willis performs the job very well, IMO.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            I watched him get worked by Tony Gonzalez, Brandon Pettigrew, Jimmy Graham. And Aaron Hernandez had 10 catches for 92 yards and a touchdown in that week 15 matchup, that’s not erasing anyone honestly. Again Patrick Willis is the best MLB in the game but despite his speed and athleticism he can’t effectively cover the best TEs in the league.

          • JofreyRice

            Yeah, except when you take into account he was thrown at 19 times and dropped the ball 4 times to avoid hits by Willis.

            Brady threw to Hernandez while Willis was covering him 8 times, and connected 4 times for 37 yards. That is erasing Aaron Hernandez when Tom Brady is running the Patriots offense. Tony Gonzalez’ long reception was 14 yards, and totaled 5 catches for 43 against Willis. Every coverage player is going to get beat once in a while, the guy isn’t Darrelle Revis, he’s a linebacker. The point is, hardly any other ILB is even going to draw man coverage on a TE. Put it another way, the NFL’s top defense doesn’t ask him to do it because he’s bad at it.Do you remember DeMeco running with a TE in coverage at any point this season? And I think we can agree that he’s still pretty good, right? Do you remember that play that stopped Seattle’s comeback by seting up the GW Field Goal in Atlanta? Tony Gonzalez abused one of the better young MLBs, Bobby Wagner, on the last offensive play to set the FG up, and everyone in the stadium knew they were throwing the football to one of three places on the play.

            If your argument is that a guy doesn’t need to run a 4.3 to be effective in coverage, I can agree. I disagree with the notion that Willis is some kind of glorified athletic thumper, lost in coverage, though.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Oh I definitely agree with you on LBs in coverage. It’s always been my belief that no linebacker is really that great in coverage, they are not corners. But when people evaluate players they mention things like that as if there are players at that position who are studs in coverage. I feel like these talking points are fabricated against players even though they don’t matter as much as some things. And you got my point that you don’t have to run 4.3 to be effective in coverage. I should probably not say Willis can’t cover but like all LBs is not as great in coverage as the scouts seem to think LBs should be particularly when they are evaluating college prospects.

          • justmakingsense

            Dude please tell me You totally just said that trying to prove a point while not thinking about it right? Then you got called out on it and thought ok maybe i will say he’s not a complete liability! You are just trying to cover your ass right? I think it will be better to admit this than look like you know nothing about football and the best Middle linebacker in the game? Admit it, you were trying to solidify your point and said some things that you thought you could get away with.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Right because I claimed to be the guru of all things football. I still stick by my assertion that Patrick Willis is not a great cover man which no LB is. I don’t claim to know any more football than anyone else on this forum, I simply state what I feel from my perspective alone based on the things that I know. If someone has another perspective that I have not considered, by all means present it. So your attempt to make it seem like i’m trying to brow beat someone rather than having a discussion about differing opinions is admirable but incorrect.

      • Token

        very wrong.

      • xlGmanlx

        Who cares? Willis is a beast.

        • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

          Oh he’s definitely a beast, I’d take him over any MLB in the game, I was just commenting on how overblown running a 40 time is for a LB.

  • EricT

    Baldy also said during one of the Eagles pre-season games a couple years ago that Colt Anderson was a “heat seaking missle to the football” while he was playing safety. Special Teams? Yes. At safety? He’s shown flashes but I would say he’s not a heat seaking missle of a tackler.

    Poke and prod all these players all you want. Only time will tell how well the teams have drafted.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=508479001 Richaud Jeaffreson

      In fairness, he outplayed a 2nd round draft pick while he was in there. Not starting material, but he was making some good stops on runs especially.

      • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

        Agreed, I don’t want Colt being a starter but when he played he was blowing RBs up. I think heat seeking missile is an apt description.

        • xlGmanlx

          Just don’t ask him to you know….cover a TE in the NFL? let alone his own division? He is Kurt Cole LIGHT in the man’s league. Take a look at the QB’s in the NFC East alone. 2x SB Winner/SB MVP in the jints and the reigning NFL Rookie of the year, and she statisically played at a MVP like level at times but was overshadowed in multiple more story lines….like you know the playoffs and the SB? Wake me up when he is even remotely like the guy they signed in Houston. if you upgrade, you upgrade, they owe this kat nothing.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            I’m not sure where your assertion that I am suggesting that Colt Anderson is starting material came from. I am simply stating that he played well in the time that he was in and Baldy’s description of his play at the time was accurate. Personally I want the Eagles to go grab 2 safeties from draft Matt Elam and Baccari Rambo are my guys. Colt is a very valuable ST player and you can’t say ST doesn’t matter after the crap play we have had as a whole over the last few seasons.

          • xlGmanlx

            I never once said you asserted that, I just simply stated “blowing up RB’s” is the least of the igg’s problems. If they lost games on the ground, maybe, but this is a passing league and we need the backend to play the pass and provide run support. Who care if he puts RB’s out of the game? Smart OC’s will exploit his liability in coverage any time he is on the field. Starting, packages, etc. So for what you gain possibly in ST, you lose on another large facet of the game. Juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I’m hoping the draft, our FA signings and the UFA make Colt’s stay here over.

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            I’m not sure why you hate him so much. We all know what kind of league it is today. Talking about OCs exploiting his weakness and all these other talking points, you speak as if someone on this forum is saying that Colt Anderson is going to be starting for this team. Why are we even talking about OCs gameplanning to exploit a backup and great ST in coverage? You can’t fill every slot at safety with playmakers because they will cost too much so you draft guys whether they are backup WRs, RBs, LBs, or DBs who can play special teams. Getting rid of Colt is getting rid of your best special teamer. So my question is, how are we losing on another facet of the game if all Colt is doing is playing ST? He played in limited games last season because the safety play was atrocious and he played better than the jokers we had in there. No one said he is a starter or that we want him to start, he is simply getting credit for his play during that time. So again, why would any OC be gameplanning for him?

          • xlGmanlx

            It isn’t about hate, it is business, nothing personal. I feel the Kurt Coleman/Colt Anderson/Chad Halls/etc of the iggles past need to be cut, plain and simple. Part of the issue was coaching etc, the other was depth which speaks to overall talent. I feel there are better players to be had and offer more snaps per game than a Colt does. Nothing against him, there are just a significant more players that add more value than just 3-10 special teams play per game.
            If he isn’t going to start, and there are probably younger players to be had, why so sure we need Colt? He has NFL experience over any college player, but nobody has any clue on what is to be expected in the new regime. I didn’t say that they would game plan for him, any QB worth his salt is going to attack Colt in pass coverage anytime he is on the field a la pass against Trott/Kirkland/etc

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            I mean I hear what you are saying but I guess I just value him a bit more because he is a great ST players and you need guys like that. I’d prefer not to have a revolving door at any position whether its a backup position or not but that does not mean I don’t want to cultivate talent there either.

  • dislikedisqus

    I can’t imagine using the #4 pick on a medical risk. To m, that high a pick should only be used on someone you are totally confident will be a long term elite player.

    Sometimes front offices do things in part to manage their relationship with agents. Idk who’s JJ’s agent but I wonder if doing a powerful agent a low-cost favor by showing interest in his client isn’t part of the thinking here.

  • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

    40 Speed and Medical issues aside, Jarvis Jones is the absolute stand out defensive prospect in this draft. There is no body being considered to be drafted into the NFL in 2013 who comes close.

    This kid is a football player in the likes of Bill Bergey, Brian Urlacker and Ray Lewis. You would not put Jarvis Jones on the anchor of a 440 Relay but, this young man is more than capable of anchoring a NFL defense.

    • dislikedisqus

      i agree but medical issues are big risks. Think about the Andrew Bynum trade. I wd require a medical risk of 0 for a pick that high.

      • ICDogg

        medical risk of 0 does not exist

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Sixers knew Bynum was damaged just like they knew Jeff Ruland was damaged when he was traded to Philly from Washington. I would not say this is a similar situation. Making the same mistakes over and over. This kid played at two Big Time programs and was a stand out contributor at both schools, His history works for him.

        I’ll admit the best possible scenario for the Eagles would be team scare off from Jarvis and he drops into the second round. That worked perfectly for Cincinnati in acquiring Burfict last year. One can only hope.

        I still don’t see Dion Jordan being able to match Jones output. I seen workout kings from the combine before, the Eagles have a legendary Workout King Bust story. i’m afraid the Eagles may be working down that path again with Jordan.

        • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

          And that’s what I am afraid of in drafting him. He’s not someone I feel like I know he will be successful. It’s more like I hope he is successful. Thanks being said, I do like Dion Jordan he just scares me.

  • http://www.jhkayejr.com Joseph Kaye

    #4 is a big reach with this many question marks.

  • Lukekelly65

    two players who i like alot are Nico Johnson from Alabama and KiKo Alonso from Oregon both are ILB but i think Johnson would be the better fit he would play behind Ryans (also from Bama) and he could learn for a year then next year we have our future Inside backers with Johnson and Kendricks … that is very wishful thinking but i like that Johnson played at a great program he only knows success also he is a very good run defender i think he would be a great pick in rounds 4 or 5

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=508479001 Richaud Jeaffreson

    It is all up to what the doctors say. IF they deem he is healthy, then maybe you take the risk…. I certainly wouldn’t pass him, or any other difference maker for the D over, because I would be worried about what Trent Cole, Vinny Curry, or Brandon Graham are going to do. If they can play, they will have a spot on the roster. If they cant, see you later.

  • Hugh

    Seems silly to put Barwin in a non pass rushing role, and the bigger concern is on the D line, I like Star but I have a feeling Andy’s gonna take him

    • BrickSquadMonopoly

      i might be wrong about this but didnt the chiefs draft dontari poe last season with their 1st overall to play NT?

      • Hugh

        Yes they did, but Star is versatile and can play DE in the 3-4, although I am sure he would go with the safe pick in Jockel.

      • Hugh

        your right they did, but Star can play DE in the 34 alignment as well.

  • Mike Flick

    Reminds me of when Suggs was blasted for his slow 40 time. It was 4.8 or so, that knocked him off a lot of boards, but not the Ravens.

    • Tom W

      Suggs weighed 35 lbs more … no one has ever run this slow a 40 time and been a success at pro-level at his position w H/W/S. just saying.

      • Token

        Just to be accurate, Suggs was 260 on his pro day. Jones was 245. I think thats 15 pounds. Jones ran twice, once in the low 4.9 and the second was high 4.8. Which is where Suggs ran. Im not saying he is Suggs or anything but to say something like that doesnt make sense..

        • Tom W

          “In the next breath, Casserly said he couldn’t remember any linebackers
          Jones’s size (245 pounds) who were able to overcome a 4.9-second 40 and
          still play well in the NFL.” Just to be accurate and make sense. The point about Suggs pro-day weight actually helps because he dropped 12 lbs before his proday in the hopes of running a better 40 time and proving he could play in a 3-4. That wasn’t suggs playing weight — if he stayed at this normal playing weight his 40 time at that time wouldn’t have looked as bad when compared to players 15 lbs heavier lik

  • Richard Colton

    Baldinger is right, It’s a no brainer. The Eagles have to draft this guy if he falls to the 4th pick in the 2nd round.

    • xlGmanlx

      That plus a stud at whatever we pull in the first rounds is something that would make Howie’s offseason unbelievable two straight years and we can start to enjoy this.

  • Sensei

    In regards to his health here is an article from a few weeks ago stating he never even had spinal stenosis http://sports.yahoo.com/news/medical-report-clears-jarvis-jones-213131274–nfl.html

  • over the top

    I’m glad they are giving him a look…. not sure what 4.9 will do to his draft spot but the next highest rated OLB also ran a 4.9

  • birdsfan11

    tavon austin is going to be there pick at #4

  • knighn

    There are two things you can’t coach: size and speed. Sometimes this matters more than a player’s productivity in college.

    Brandon Graham had a much more productive and consistent college career than Jason Pierre-Paul, especially if you look at each of their final years in the NCAA.
    Only the biggest homer would say that Brandon Graham is a better choice than Jason Pierre-Paul.

    I’m not saying that this is an exact parallel to Dion Jordan and Jarvis Jones, nor am I saying that you look at the combine numbers exclusively. What I am saying is that you have to look at the full picture… and see why there might be some very, very valid reasons why the Eagles would take Jordan over Jones.

    • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

      Now I do love Brandon Graham but speaking realistically obviously JJP is better than Graham but JPP honestly last season was JPPs only super impactful season. Him and Graham were equally productive their rookie year in terms of sacks and pressures. JPP surely regressed this year. I know that he most likely was double teamed a lot but people tote him as the best pass rusher in the league but he really didn’t have much of an impact this season also having other good pass rushers around him. Putting that point aside and not actually knowing the statistics I pretty sure that you will find that more guys like JPP have ended up being terrible in the league than guys like Brandon Graham. I’m willing to bet that significantly more guys who were super productive in college played well in the NFL than guys who were work out warriors.

      • knighn

        “I’m willing to bet that significantly more guys who were super productive in college played well in the NFL than guys who were work out warriors.” You’re probably right, but we can also see, from a number of Andy Reid’s drafts, that taking the short, high-motor college guy often doesn’t work out when they’re playing with the big boys. Everyone needs skill. Beyond that, to play in the NFL, you need some size or speed or some combination of both.

        Certain positions, in general, need a little more size. Jerome McDougle and Brandon Graham were both smaller DEs. Both ended up with season-ending injuries early in their careers. Coincidence? Or just the natural consequence of trying to bulk up a smaller frame to compete against much larger players?

        • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

          Well define short small guy because there are plenty of examples of smaller guys being successful in the NFL. Von Miller, Patrick Willis, Desean Jackson, Dwight Freeney, Elvis Dumervil, Trent Cole, Robert Mathis, I mean the list continues. So I disgree with that sentiment and I don’t think you can even remotely compare Brandon Graham to Jerome McDougle, I actually think Brandon Graham started coming into his zone when he finally got playing time this season. The guy played dominant football.

          • knighn

            No disrespect to those players. You think of that list because those guys are exceptions. For every member of that list there are literally dozens who failed in the NFL or never made it to the NFL because they are either undersized (too short or too underweight compared to the average at the position) or they are simply too slow.

            I am NOT among those who want DeSean Jackson off the team. DeSean has two attributes that you cannot coach: speed and quickness.

            That brings me back to Dion Jordan. Not only does the guy have hieght and a frame that will allow for another 20 lbs, easily, the guy has legitimately speed for his position. On top of that, there are no serious medical questions with him. I expect Dion Jordan to have a better career than Jarvis Jones. Feel free to tell me “told you so” if I’m wrong.

            While we are on comparisons, let’s get back to Brandon Graham. I compared him to Jerome McDougle because he is another somewhat undersized, first-round DE that suffered a season-ending injury early in his career. Graham is a much better player than McDougle ever was. Brandon Graham, however, will never reach the heights that Jason Pierre-Paul has reached. Graham will never have 16.5 sacks on one season and he will never have 7 passes defensed in one season. Teams will never game-plan for Graham the way they have game-planned for Pierre-Paul. Graham may make the Pro-Bowl, but he will never be an All-Pro. This is nothing against Graham. I have no question that he gives it all every time he steps on the field. He is an Eagles player so I would love for him to turn into the monster that Pierre-Paul has been. Still, there are two things you can’t coach: size and speed.

            I’m not advocating that you ignore the college results and only pay attention to the combine. I am, however saying that you have to look at the whole picture: college productivity + context + combine results (including measurables and medical).

          • http://www.facebook.com/matteuwh Matteuw Hines

            Oh I agree that you have to look at things in it entirety, I completely agree with you so I don’t speak based solely off combine numbers. If we take Jordan and he plays well then great i’m not saying the kid is going to be a bust i’m just stating my case for the latter who I prefer. I like Dion Jordan and he seems like a great kid, he just scares me is all.

            So for the case against the shorter guys, there are plenty of cases where the taller lanky “athletic” guys who weren’t super productive in college and have ended up being busts in the NFL. I mean i’m sure you know its a two way street. And for even fast quick great receiver there are a plethora of ones who are terrible. So those athletic gifts are definitely key but the most important thing above all in my eyes is the ability to play football and make plays regardless of what your physical measurables are.

            And JJP obviously had a monster sophomore year and im pretty sure that he will continue to be dominant but ive always been puzzled of how after one season of success he was crowned the most dominant pass rusher in the league. Analyst have this tendency to instantly crown players after one year of super success. I’m not saying JPP isn’t great but he took huge steps backwards this past season yet made a pro bowl like a lot of others based solely off of their names and past success. Your concerns about Graham are the concerns that a lot of people have. I feel though that he has to ability to be a dominant player. I’m not sure as a 3-4 OLB but definitely as a 4-3 DE.