Key Questions Surround Potential Foles Trade

Eagles quarterback Nick Foles.While the NFL Combine is technically a draft event, it’s also another meeting of the different arms of the league: coaches, GMs, scouts, reporters and agents.

So you can expect to hear some some non-draft related buzz in the coming days. And that buzz could very well include Nick Foles‘ future.

We last talked about Foles when a USA Today report suggested that Andy Reid and the Chiefs would be interested in acquiring him. Soon thereafter, reports surfaced that the Eagles had no plans to trade Foles.

Ahh, the games teams play in February.

To get a firmer grasp on the potential of Foles being dealt, let’s answer some key questions.

What will the market be like?

This is always the No. 1 question when it comes to trades. If you can get two teams seriously interested, you’re in great shape. And sometimes, it only takes one.

Franchises looking for quarterbacks don’t have a lot of options this offseason. Quarterbacks are graded differently based on scheme and coaching. But this is not a QB-rich draft. West Virginia’s Geno Smith is probably going to be the top signal-caller taken, but Mike Mayock said earlier this week that he sees Smith as a “20 to 32″ pick in the first round. A team will almost definitely take him higher, but the point is there’s no QB considered to be a top-five no-brainer selection.

And then there’s free agency. Take a look at this list. Assuming Joe Flacco isn’t going anywhere, you’ve got Matt MooreJason CampbellDavid Garrard and others of that ilk. Not an impressive group, to say the least.

Alex Smith will probably be the most-coveted QB on the market. But teams wanting Smith will have to match the 49ers’ asking price (and pay him a reported $8.5 million in 2013).

KC Joyner of ESPN.com (Insider) makes the case for three teams – the Chiefs, Bills and Cardinals – to go after Foles. Here’s what he writes about the Chiefs:

Since the Chiefs are evidently not sold on any of the rookie quarterbacks in this year’s draft and Andy Reid is highly familiar with Foles’ talents, paying a somewhat inflated price to the Eagles might be the Chiefs’ best quarterback option.

What will the Eagles want in return?

This is probably the most difficult question to answer.

On one hand, Foles’ numbers were rather pedestrian. He completed 60.8 percent of his passes for six touchdowns and five interceptions. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt, which ranked 29th in the NFL. Foles had accuracy issues and had trouble hitting receivers downfield.

On the other hand, he was playing with a banged-up supporting cast and one of the worst offensive lines in the league. He showed the ability to escape pressure and complete throws on the move. Foles also demonstrated toughness, standing in the pocket and taking hit after hit.

Friend of the blog Sam Lynch made an excellent point about Foles’ contract. According to EaglesCap.com, he’s due base salaries of $500,000 in 2013, $615,000 in 2014 and $660,000 in 2015. In other words, he’s a cheap investment. Teams looking to acquire Foles are taking on pretty much no financial risk. And at the very least, they’re getting themselves a competent quarterback who can compete for a starting spot or be a good backup.

That’s what makes this situation different than the Kevin Kolb deal. When the Cardinals traded for Kolb, they had to sign him to a new deal, which ended up being worth $63.5 million over six years ($12 million guaranteed). Acquiring Foles requires no such commitment.

Foles was taken in the third round with the 88th overall pick. Considering the Eagles spent a year developing him, you’d think they would want more than that draft slot in return.

What is Foles’ value to the Eagles?

The answer to this goes hand-in-hand with one other question: How much value does Chip Kelly put in a quarterback’s mobility?

An interesting note from Greg Cosell recently in a Yahoo Sports column about the read option:

What other NFL teams could make effective use of the read option? Tennessee with Jake Locker? Minnesota with Christian Ponder? Miami with Ryan Tannehill, the former college wide receiver? There’s no doubt in my mind Chip Kelly will run it in Philadelphia now that the Eagles brought Michael Vick back. I have studied Oregon’s offense, and it is evident it was structured on the quarterback’s threat as a runner. To believe otherwise is to not understand the schematic underpinnings of that offense.

In the past, Kelly has pointed out statistics detailing how his quarterbacks at Oregon haven’t always put up gaudy rushing numbers. And that’s true. But the key phrase in the above passage is “threat as a runner.” Some of Kelly’s core offensive philosophies seem to be rooted in how many players the defense positions in the box. As he’s said in the past, it’s simple math. But that math is based on the idea that the quarterback can pose a threat to run the ball.

Could Kelly design an offense with Foles at quarterback? Sure. But does he want to? It doesn’t seem that way.

And that’s really what it comes down to. 2013 is not about the Eagles making a Super Bowl run. It’s about Kelly getting his system in place. That’s why the Eagles re-structured Michael Vick‘s deal and (to a lesser degree) signed Dennis Dixon.

This is not to say Foles is worthless to Kelly. As I mentioned above, at the very least, he’s an inexpensive backup. Maybe Vick will struggle in the offseason, and Kelly will decide he’s better off going with Foles. That seems unlikely, but it’s possible.

The point is, to assume the Eagles have to trade Foles would be incorrect. It all depends on the market and the offers.

The bottom line

The way I see it, Reid is the key figure in this equation. No one knows Foles as intimately as the former Eagles’ head coach. The Chiefs are in need of a quarterback, Reid has invested time in Foles, and by all accounts, he and Howie Roseman/Kelly maintain a good relationship.

If Reid sees legitimate upside in Foles, he could be willing to make a serious play for the 24-year-old quarterback.

It’s possible that other teams could join the fray, but that’s probably less likely, especially when you consider how disastrous trading for Eagles quarterbacks has proven to be in the past.

We’ll hear from the key players – Kelly, Roseman and Reid – later today. But don’t expect the Foles trade buzz to die down any time soon.

Follow Sheil Kapadia on Twitter and e-mail him at skapadia@phillymag.com.
Become a fan of Birds 24/7 on Facebook.

Be respectful of our online community and contribute to an engaging conversation. We reserve the right to ban impersonators and remove comments that contain personal attacks, threats, or profanity, or are flat-out offensive. By posting here, you are permitting Philadelphia magazine and Metro Corp. to edit and republish your comment in all media.

  • DunedinEagle

    Come on Eagles, put me out of my misery. Trade Foles, the only QB on the roster with a shot of having any real success and pick up another “athletic” type to go along with that loser Vick and the guy that could beat out Charlie Batch. Please just do it so I can say good bye to this team for good.

    • EaglesJake

      Wish you would step back from that ledge my friend. We have to believe and have faith in what Chip Kelly is going to decide. If he decides to trade Nick we have to embrace it. Somebody was talking to me the other day about how Chip Kelly gives the Eagles no chance to succeed. I looked at that person and said, “what do the Eagles have to lose?” This team is trying to win a Super Bowl and all we’ve done over the years is get to the playoffs on a pretty consistent basis. We have to take a risk. We have to believe in Chip.

      • MAC

        We have to live with Chip Kelly being coach bc we have no choice. However we can believe that this hiring is very risky and his philosophy is scary. We can also look at the evidence and see that CK the guy you say we have to believe in is same guy who is keeping Vick. So to believe in that is difficult. However as an Eagles fan I have to at least hope that Kelly does turn this franchise around. I am will get on board with Kelly, but certain decisions and certain trends scare me. This team and Kelly make it very difficult to believe when they make decisions that have already proven do not succeed.

        • peteike

          my sentiments exactly. I agree with everything you post for the most part, people shouldnt think you are negative just to be negative. You back up your points very well and there is plenty of evidence and reason to be skeptical.

          • MAC

            Thank you. I love my team and will be there rooting for them no matter how skeptical I am. If the Eagles franchise. were similar to the Steelers with all there Lombardi’s I would be less skeptical. However we have a few less than them so it makes me slightly more skeptical. LOL

      • DunedinEagle

        The days of blind faith in anything this organization does are long gone for me. After what has taken place since pretty much 2004 I question everything they do. It’s my opinion Laurie hired Kelly because it was the sexy move that keeps the sheep lining up to pasture and the waiting list full. Jeffrey is an entertainer by trade and Kelly keeps the show interesting just not for me. Like I said before, please let Foles go so I can cut the last thread of the mostly severed cord.

        • aub32

          Stop whining and just go then. I want them to win it too, but I’m not going to act like they’ve purposefully made the wrong moves. I doubt you were crying in 2010 and the start of 2011 when it looked like we had something. Go take your hindsight to some other team and you can cry about the moves they make months after you already know the result.

          • DunedinEagle

            Bahhhhhhhhhh Sheep! Here’s a quote from one of your posts above…

            “Fans need to accept the possibility that right now Foles is probably not a better QB than Vick,” All your credibility is shot if you can’t see clearly how Foles is a better QB that Vick. He can read a defense and slide in year one yet your bot has yet to learn either after 10 plus years in the league. Move along.

    • peteike

      “Could Kelly design an offense with Foles at quarterback? Sure. But does he want to? It doesn’t seem that way.” and this sentence completely sums up my skepticism about the future of the Eagles and the hiring of Chip Kelly. I want to be positive, I really do, and I cant stand being the negative fan posting all negative comments. I just dont see another mobile QB changing my mind, the mere thought of it just infuriates me esp after watching the last 2 dreadful seasons. The only hope I carry is RG3, Wilson and Kap all having success. That being said, the Flacco, Brady, Manning formula also still works (tried and true, run gm and good D will always win esp in playoffs) and defenses catch on, they always do.

      • aub32

        So Rodgers and Big Ben aren’t mobile QBs? They have 3 rings and four SB appearances combined.

        • peteike

          seriously? Elway does have the helicopter play, you have that going for you. Escapability, is not the same as a mobile QB. Also, one that relies on their feet vs the arm is the bigger difference. McNabb only used his legs when he needed to, esp later in his career, same with Young. This argument is old.

      • aub32

        I can’t stand when people say you can’t win with a mobile QB. Think how many pocket passing QBs have never win the big one. Look at the history of some of the mobile QBs. Steve Young is a HOFer. McNabb was a perrinial pro bowler who made it just a game shy of the SB 4 times and lost in it once. Culpepper looked great before the injury. Vick went to the NFC championship game with very little help. Rodgers and Ben have won it all. Now, 2 rookies and a guy with less than a dozen starts led their teams to the playoffs. Compared to the Kyle Ortons and Rex Grossman’s that seem to slip the minds of fans clamoring for a pocket passer, I’ll take a guy like McNabb, Newton, or RG3

        • DunedinEagle

          McNabb never won it all. Young was a pocket passer who could run. Rogers and BR are pocket passers so I’m not sure what your point is. You can have those types. I’ll stick with the proven formula and I for one think this city has done it’s fair share of trying to break the mold for the last 20 years with Randle, Donnie and the Coach Killa.

          • aub32

            Look at Young in Tampa Bay. He was definitely a runner until Walsh got a hold of him. In fact the other day he talked about how he wished the read option had been around when he was playing. Also, I was talking about mobile QBs, not just black QBs, there’s a difference. No one can sit here and tell me Rodgers doesn’t fall into the category of mobile.

          • nicksaenz1

            There’s a difference of mobile and “posing the threat to run” as well. Ben, Rodgers are mobile, no one is scared of them on a designed run that isn’t on 4th and inches or on the goal line. Be real.

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          Steve Young, 49er Quarterback……. a perfect example that is often over looked for his running style by the casual fan of the NFL

          • MAC

            The successful mobile QB’s used mobility to avoid rush and buy time to throw to guy who becomes open due to QB buying time. The run first QB like Vick has enjoyed little to no success. With speed of defenders and the viciousness of league running QB’s have a hard time staying healthy. Being mobile is a huge assett if it’s used to buy time to throw and run when it’s last option. QB’s that are mobile and rely on legs to win more than arm tend to get injured (Vick) and turn ball over a lot (Vick). Young was has the record for best passer rating by a QB in NFL history throughout his career. His style was way different than Vick’s.

        • MAC

          You can win with a mobile QB, but he must be a pass first run second mobile QB like Roethlisberger or Rodgers. Vick is a run first pass second QB so people feel like that will never work bc when he runs he fumbles and gets injured. The year Vick went to NFC championship was only time he won any playoff games in his entire career. The year he ran for over a 1000 yards the falcons were 8-8. So it’s not that mobile QB’s can’t win super bowl’s. It’s whe a QB runs first passes later. Roethlisberger rarely runs but usually buys time to pass. Rodgers can run but ususally uses mobility to avoid rush and find open man. There is a huge difference in that kind of mobile QB and the one the Eagles just restructured.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Floes can not consistently hit the long ball he’s pretty good on intermediate routes, but the Eagles don’t have receivers who work the middle of the field. Brady, Manning and Flacco have receivers capable of making tough catches in traffic, the Eagles and Foles do not.

        Foles 60% completion rate comes compliments of 6.4 yards per attempt.

        • peteike

          arm strength and footwork which helps velocity can improve, thats the plus side you are ignoring. Brees improved a ton in these areas. The brains is the most important for any qb, first and foremost. I agree though with your points about the talent not really suited for him.

        • MAC

          Mike Vick’s big arm compliments as you say a 6.73 yards per attempt at a 58.1 completion %.

          Sorry about using facts and stats for my argument and not just telling everyone how little they know about football compared to me like you do genius.

  • GGeagle

    I think If Foles is traded we would get back a lot more than most people think. I just don’t really see us pulling the trigger on him at this stage is a POSSABILITY. it’s too much of a risk, trading away what you really don’t know at such a crucial position, especially when you don’t have a clear cut better option for the future in place. chip and Howie don’t have the nfl clout to trade Foles and be wrong, especially without a franchise QB in place. Their careers can’t survive Foles being tradede after his rookie season, without seeing how much he can improve in year two first. I would imagine realistically Chip has to ATleast see him at camp before he get bet his nfl career that we will quickly find our franchise QB and that Foles won’t go on to be a top 10 NFL passer. We don’t let this organization live down passing up on Earl and JPP, could you imagine if we are stuck in QB limbo cause we haven’t found the right guy yet and Foles is out in KC lighting the league on fire making Reid look like a genius? This city will burn Howie and Chip to the stake. Howie will have to explain to his wife why he isn’t getting paid any longer to play fantasy fOotball, and chip will be back to being a college lifer. No matter how tasty the carrot you dangle, and fans many of which will be hype about that Carrot, in the end it’s too soon to make that gamble and lose. I think there is a better chance that come September Vick is gone, than Nick Foles….I mean would anyone be absolutely shocked if he improves drastically in year two and lights up training camp this summer? I wouldn’t. It could go either way at this point but risk analysis…The QB position is so important. You can’t trade away a potential franchise QB without having one in place. I don’t even understand how anyone would think that this is a POSSABILITY…because of the need for the threat to run? My ass. You need a COMPETANT QB FIRST AND FOREMOST, than you can start worrying about the threat to run. Lol

    • aub32

      What makes Foles a potential franchise QB? He won one game. I really don’t get Eagles fans who think he’s the next great thing. Compared to his peers he was pedestrian at best. He should be grouped with guys like ponder and locker instead of rg3 and luck. The only thing I can point to is he looks different than what we’ve seen the past decade here, and fans want a guy who looks the part. I think the biggest argument for trading Foles is to simply look at how many backups had success after leaving Reid’s side.

      • MAC

        Here are some facts about Foles that are interesting:

        A few weeks ago, Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com crunched some numbers on Foles’ rookie season. Reuben found that Foles’ 60.8 percent completion percentage is fifth in NFL history among rookie QBs, behind some pretty notable figures — Ben Roethlisberger, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan. Foles’ average of 243 yards passing a game ranks third all-time, behind Andrew Luck and Cam Newton, neither of whom completed 60 percent of their passes as a rookie. Thus, Foles is the only NFL rookie, ever, to average more than 240 yards while completing at least 60 percent of his passes. (You could argue that Marc Bulger did this with the Rams in 2002, but he was not technically a rookie, having been on the roster behind Kurt Warner for two years, not playing.)

        Foles threw an interception once every 53 attempts. In NFL history, only one rookie QB has had a better ratio, RGIII last season, one every 78.6 atempts.

        Not bad stats and I am not saying I am sold on him. Also though these stats were behind that terrible o line and no Celek, Jackson, or McCoy. Behind same o line that many Vick fans blame for reason he was so awful. I am just saying that he is going to be in his second year and should get a legit chance. With what they paid Vick unless they trade him before season, Kelly is handing the job to him. Kelly can say what he wants about open competition, but if Vick on roster week 1 he gets 7.5 million. That shows the job is Vick’s. Have you ever looked up the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different result. In Vick’s career, he has 2 playoff wins total and both same season,that was 10 years ago. So at least with Foles we can find out if we have a guy who gives you a chance at super bowl’s. He probably can’t, but with Vick the question has already been answered. Yet here we go again.

        • GGeagle

          Good post. Year two is when you usually find out what kind of QB we have on our hands…would you be surprised if a smart kid like him improves drastically since unlike Vick, he is still improving….and Set training camp on fire? Wild that really surprise anyone? Conversely I wouldn’t be surprised either if he doesn’t…you just don’t know, and you can’t trade away what you don’t know, not at that position…no matter how juicy the compensation looks. Too hard to find a franchise guy…Foles may be a career back up, or he could grow into a franchise QB, can’t trade him away til you have a better idea…remember teams don’t get to see what we get to see in camp this summer. Not progressing fast enough, you can still get something for him…but he needs to be given a chance..

        • aub32

          Again you can point to the system versus the QB. Kolb had averages of 64 and 60 completion percentage before being traded to ARZ. It’s not hard to complete a dozen screen passes each game. You have to look at what he was asked to do. Luck, RG3, Wilson, and even Tannehill won games for their team. Foles managed losses just as Kolb did before him, putting good numbers based on the volume of short passes he was asked to throw. Am I saying Vick will win a SB in this offense, Heck No. I am simply saying that Foles has not proven in any way to be this glorious franchise QB that so many are scared to let go. We have seen Feely, Garcia, Kolb, and even the great McNabb go, and not one has panned out to do anything without Reid.

          • MAC

            So go ahead ignore his #’s for a rookie that stack up well in the history of rookie QB’s. Yea it’s the system or he is Kolb, whatever. Funny how when it’s Vick and he fails miserably he gets chance after chance and excuse after excuse. He has been around for 10 years do you think he is improving at 33 yrs old? No!!

            Foles is a rookie and the reason we threw short passes is bc had no Jackson and O line could not hold up. Foles can throw deep he just needs to work on his footwork. I just think that no one can determine that Foles can’t play after 7 games and with all problems on offense last year with injuries. Vick came into league 10 years ago and has proven he is not good enough yet gets 5 chances. Does that make sense? No!!! Yet your so sure about Foles. If he is not answer fine but at least we exhausted that option. Vick we know what he brings and it’s not worth continuing. Remember Vick equals the definition of insanity. Doing same thing over and over and expecting different results. Vick was with Reid and has been bad other than 10 games in 2010. So if guys are only good under Reid but bad when leave him as your pointing out with Feely, Kolb etc then what does that say about Vick and not being good under Reid,

          • GGeagle

            AMEN! Dumb shortsighted fans already forgotthe precise long balls the kid was throwing all preseason long…Remember? the reason the entire city was calling for him when Vick was playing bad? a few bad mechanics under heavy pressure and all of the sudden he cantthrow deep? go put on a Foles college highlight tape, andthen come tell me he has a week arm. This kids arm is plenty strong!

          • aub32

            Preseason. We’re talking about preseason Hahaha. Phillip hunt looked all world in preseason. Come on that’s a terrible argument, not to mention wrong. Go rewatch his bomb to Gilyard and see how underthrown it was. His saving grace was that the preseason CB never looked back for the ball, and Gilyard did. Hahaha preseason thanks for the laugh.

        • Capt. Undapants

          That’s all well and good, but what’s your argument for the myriad potential picks that Foles threw REGULARLY? Every game in which he played, defenders dropped 2-3 interceptions per game! Fans are enamored with Foles’ look. He’s tall, pallid, and immobile as Drew Bledsoe. When you look at how he performed, he was VERY mediocre. Yes behind a bad line, missing some key players, whatever. Performance was still mediocre.

          While I just bashed him, I’m not trying to say he’s a bad QB. I’m just saying that he’s not above being traded.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            The tools and talent to get the best out of Foles just aren’t in Philly, Foles, because he can’t hit the deep ball is not suited for DJax and Maclin, Foles may have potential, it’s just not in Philly that he’ll shine if he does well in the NFL, not as this team is presently constructed. His best pass is any pass under 8 yards off the line. He’s built to run a WCO, short dink and donks to the Backs and tight end in traffic. The in traffic, disqualifies Celek

            What separated Foles from Kolb as I see it is Foles isn’t jumpy in the pocket, Kolb was/is a nervous wreck facing rushing defenders. Kolb showed in the Eagles pocket he had the heart of the Easter Bunny. The Kid from the Raiders commented on how scared Kolb plays in the pocket. Kolb was the Quarterback that again, the Philly Sports writers and radio personalities sold on the city as McNabb heir apparent. The writers all bue swore Kolb was the next Montana.

          • GGeagle

            Hey Dutch, were you saying Foles couldnt hitthe deep ball in the preseason too? doubt it, you probably had your pom poms out cheering his precise deep balls that he was ripping all preseason long. what happened? his arm died 23 months later, at the age of 23? Give me a freaking break, the kid’s arm is FINE! once he fixes his mechanics, when he is under pressure you will see him make ALL THE THROWS!!! Not to mention the underthrow of Maclin you all rip, occured when he broke his throwing hand 5 plays earlier! Foles cantthrow the deep ball? hahahaha the most ignorant parrotted line in Philly. Go throw on a Foles college Highlight and come tell me aboutthe kid’s arm.

          • theycallmerob

            I think the issue was Foles was throwing in camp to receivers he was familiar with. Until Vick’s injury, he wasn’t getting many reps with the 1′s. Also, he has the strength (which can’t be coached) but the concern is with accuracy (which can be coached, and usually fixed with reps).

            Coming into this long argument late, but I think we’re all losing sight of “what the eagles would get”. I just don’t see Reid trading KC’s 1st or 2nd round pick, and I’m not sure I’d trade Foles for anything less than that. Yes he’s nothing stellar, but he’s a cheap backup and I don’t see that late round “Russell Wilson” in this draft. Moreso, I can’t imagine the Eagles trading him before this draft, without Kelly at least seeing him in OTA’s and camp. Just not sure the market is there yet. Maybe a 2/3 rd pick next year?

          • GGeagle

            you do realize that all the greatest QB’s inthe history of the nfl threw a ton of picks their rookie years? Not to mention about 3 int’s led to balls bouncing off recievers hands! You dont trade what you dont know, especially a damn quarterback who even showed a smidget of promise!!!!

          • aub32

            People trade for what they don’t know all the time. Please stop with that. When you trade a draft pick you’re trading what you don’t know. If he lit it up then fine, but he didn’t. You can’t look at the greats and say he might be one because he did ok. The Mannings, Elways, and Lucks of the world were great prospects coming out of college.

          • Michael Jorden

            Enamored because he’s pallid? LOL

      • CJ

        While I don’t disagree, what do you mean by compared to his peers? Which of his peers took over as a starting QB on a team that already mailed it in on the year, with one starting offensive lineman left in front of him? The fact that he did absolutely anything under those circumstances doesn’t mean he’s anything special, but does indicate that there might be something there worth a second look. And don’t hold his college stuff against him either, the fact that he took a vastly inferior team and took on some tougher programs like USC and Oregon shows something. Don’t ask me what that “something” is, I don’t know yet, not sure anyone knows yet, but he’s shown enough to deserve a chance for us all to find out, here or elsewhere.

        • aub32

          I don’t see how the team mailed it in. Avant had one of if not the best catch of the season. BB ran all over the Panthers and Cowboys. Cooper was also doing his part. Also, Luck’s team had just as bad an O line. Two of his starters were backups that couldn’t make it here, in McGlynn and Justice. The guy shouldn’t get so much credit just because he didn’t implode. He threw one more TD than pick. He fumbled 8 times. Had this been Vick he would be crucified, and I get Vick is a ten year vet. However, if fans want to tote this guy as a starter he needs to be judged as a starter, not just a rookie.

          • nicksaenz1

            You’re not even making sense with this. Avant’s one catch doesn’t discredit mailing the season in. They had no playoff shots at this point in the season. Bryce Brown was trying to prove he can be a legit in this league, and Riley Cooper was trying to secure a roster spot for this season. Your point about the O-line is irrelevant. They were backups. He fumbled 8 times behind a line full of backups, and Vick WAS crucified for his CTS (Chronic Turnover Syndrome). That CTS is why he didn’t start after he came back from injury. All Ggeagle and MAC were noting is that it’s too early to trade the guy. You DON’T KNOW what he can be. Put him behind a good line and find out, or give him the reps to compare him to Vick in OTA/preseason to find out. Trading him now for a draft pick or two doesn’t necessarily make sense when the depth we’re reducing is at the most important position in the game and no contingent is yet in place. That’s the point. You’re left with Vick and Dixon, a guy who’s proven he can’t take you there on a one year deal and a guy who wasn’t in the league last year. If Foles turns into a top 10 passer in KC and is in the playoffs for the next 8 years, and we’re still looking for a QB to run this read option or whatever system the next coach has, this is the move that gets scrutinized. Is Foles that QB, we don’t know. But some of us would rather find out what we have while he’s here than elsewhere, especially with no sure-fire qb pick in the draft.

          • aub32

            If Foles isn’t a sure fire prospect, what’s wrong with drafting a guy who also isn’t a sure fire prospect. Also, I am amazed how many people ignore scheme. This isn’t madden where any player can be thrown into any scheme. If Foles were to succeed under Reid in KC, I would not be shocked. As I keep pointing out, how many other guys were able to succeed under Reid. That doesn’t mean he’s a good fit here or even a good QB. This isn’t a case where we have an in incumbent proven starter. The kid won one game and had more turnovers than TDs.

            Lastly, I look forward to the hypocracy to come if we are offered the 34th pick in the draft and turn it down. I can see fans now griping about how we could’ve gotten a safety or corner but instead held on to Foles because he won one game on a bad team.

          • nicksaenz1

            Foles has pro experience, which negates anything this draft class has going for them… Ignored scheme? The scheme is why people question the coaching hire. This is the guy who claims he can adapt his scheme to his personnel, so let’s see what he can do. I’m of the opinion that having an initial stable of diverse quarterbacks is better than having all of the same thing. Doesn’t allow for adjustment at all…. Success under Reid is a rather relative definition. I don’t know that I would call anyone other than McNabb successful under Reid. 2010 Vick, yes, but 2010-2012 Vick, no. Kolb had a couple 300 yard games and Reid hosed the Cardinals. Everyone knows that Reid hosed the Cardinals.

          • aub32

            Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, and Gabbert also, have pro experience. Are you saying that makes them better prospects going forward than Smith or Barkley. Foles only has one more win than any QB coming out in 2013, o and 6 more losses (I count the cowboys game since Foles did throw the pick six).

            As far as success, both Feeley and Garcia had success under Reid. I get the argument against Vick, but he was unquestionably a better passer in 2011 than he has ever been in ATL and averaged over 25 ppg.

          • nicksaenz1

            Dude, every QB you listed have one thing in common: they all had their starting lines. All anyone in favor of keeping Foles is saying is that give him the opportunity behind a regular starting caliber line, not some collection of 2nd/3rd stringers. Your entire argument is based on wins/losses and turnovers without giving any credence to the circumstances under which he played. If you don’t like him and want him gone for a 2nd rd pick, cool. Just make a cogent argument that takes all things into consideration before you go making the case against him.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            The Fact that Foles can’t hit the Eagles No.1 receiver should disqualify him from being the starting Quarterback.

          • nicksaenz1

            Maclin or Jackson? Both are showing to be #2s. And let’s not act like Vick was lighting up the stat sheet throwing to them either. Fact is our entire offense was a turnover waiting to happen. I just happen to think that our 2nd year guys still has upside and the capability to prove something, where as our 33yr old qb has shown that he can’t get it done.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            However, Philly doesn’t have anyone better.

          • MAC

            So your saying Vick’s is better suited to throw deep ball to Jackson right? While Jackson had 1 catch over 40 yards with him at QB. What good is a big arm if you can’t read defense to get ball deep.
            Foles has footwork issues I agree but that can be worked on. He can throw deep if works on footwork. How well I am no sure, but with either guy last year Jackson’s deep speed was useless. The #’s show Vick’s big arm meant very little in terms of production.

          • real Philly fan

            You were horribly wrong about Foles, so wrong, it’s pathetic. And you said Philly fans weren’t the most knowledge, speak for yourself.

          • Guest

            I’m sorry, which of the people you listed are actually starters?

          • CJ

            Sorry, who of those you listed are starters? Everyone you listed is a backup playing for a job with the new regime everyone knew was coming. They all had something to prove and jobs on the line every time that they walked out on the field.

          • aub32

            My point was that the team did not mail it in. I never said Foles had all pro talent to work with. However, he had guys who were giving it their all, and other QBs (Tannehill) did more with less. Plus will anyone bring up the level of competition he faced?

          • MAC

            Tannenhill threw 12 TD’s in 16 games and 13 INT’s. Do not tell me he did more bc his #’s are average. His defense kept him in games not him. Foles #’s as I pointed out above compare favorably to Tannenhil’s and any rookie in histories completion % and there # of int’s per attempts. Foles averaged 1 int in 54 attempts.

            Also level of competition is relative to the fact that all the teams he faced were better than his team he was playing QB for. The Eagles lineup with Foles was worse than any team he faced so the competition was above what he was working with.

          • Michael Jorden

            Vick seemed to think several of them mailed it in. That’s why he blasted them after the season for lack of effort.

          • peteike

            well if we look at win/loss record in terms of Foles being serviceable as many have, Bryce Brown managed to give several games away all by himself along with spec teams blunders so it works both ways

          • MAC

            Vick fumbled 21 times in 23 games. He threw 24 picks in 21 games. Most fans are not saying Foles is a starter in NFL. Just that he should be given a chance to start bc Eagles have a terrible crop of QB’s, none most likely should be NFL starters. It’s just we have seen what Vick brings and it’s not good. So lets try Foles no one is saying he is a definite NFL starter. You really have bad perspective on Vick. You give him all the excuses yet crucify Foles 8 fumbles (1 he got credited to him but was the Brown fumbled hand off against Bengals) are terrible, but Vick’s 45 turnovers in 23 games are liveable and caused by coaching or some other excuse.

          • GGeagle

            a precise LASER also hit Maclin in the head. Reliable steady veteran leader Celek was ATROCIOUS, resulting to 2 of Foles INT’s…you have any freaking idea how many good drives, and 3rd downs the OLINE RUINED with Holding Penalties….wtf more could you expect from ANYONE, let alone a rookie in his first handful of games playing with 3 day one starters? Even if he were to become the future ELWAY, how much more could you have expected the kid to show? NO ONE annointed him a franchise QB, we just know its impossible to know what you have after 6 rookie yr games. and trading what you dont know, is never a good idea…especially at the most important position in sports, andthe chump change investment it takes to see more!

        • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

          Foles like Kolb before him is a creation of the Philly Sports writers. That’s not to say Foles is a horrible 2nd year prospect, He just could not as the Eagles are constructed find success here, especially running an option offense.

          There is no place at any level of Football Foles could be an effective Option Quarterback. One issue in Philly is that the fans aren’t the most knowledgeable and are blank when it comes to understanding exactly what the option consist.

          Not a DC in the NFL would fear Foles on a keeper.

          • MAC

            Your a Vick supporter right? Your saying other fans aren’t knowledgeable? Please enlighten all of us oh wise one. LOL What a joke coming from someone who thinks at 34 yrs old Vick will get better. Yea we are not worthy. LOL
            Also no one is claiming Foles is a danger on a keeper. Who thinks that? You know being able to run as a QB is not only thing that puts fear in DC around NFL. You think DC fear Vick at this point or licking there chops in anticipation of doubling there turnover #’s for the season? The later for most. Bad news when the game plan to stop you as a QB is to keep you in pocket and make you beat them with your decision making and arm.

            The option in the NFL has such a history of championships right? Yea but hey lets get rid of a guy bc he can’t run the option in the NFL. Good idea.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        The book on Foles is being written by Philly Sports writers and those local paid shrills on the radio who never played a down in the NFL. It’s utterly ridiculous to project Foles is worth more than a 4th or 5th round pick, given how he compares to the Quarterbacks drafted in his class before him.

        Foles has not proven much of anything other than he’s not yet ready. Foles can’t hit the long ball or the outs at this point. Given the Eagles talent at wr and tight end, his potential would be wasted. DJax is a deep ball receiver not a possession receiver, and Celek doesn’t have the talent to catch in traffic. Foles will do well hitting flares and screens in the WCO, but he’s not the Quarterback to hit receivers 15 to 20 yards down field.

        Foles showed this in the 7 games last year. It’s just not possible Foles has shown in his limited body of work the potential to draw anything better than a 4th or 5th round pick in the draft. Having said that I wouldn’t entertain any offers for Foles. I trust that Pat Shurmur could if needed devise a scheme with short routes suitable to get some mileage out of Foles in another year or two.

        • aub32

          I completely agree. Philly writers are always looking for the next big thing, and many fans are foolish enough to buy in. Numbers can be manipulated to say so many things, but what does the eye test reveal about Foles? He clearly isn’t ready, and that’s okay because he wasn’t meant to be a second year starter in the league. I also agree I wouldn’t entertain anything less a third, and that’s only because the Chiefs have the first pick in the third round. If offered a second, I will be convinced its Andy’s parting gift and take it faster than you can blink. The 34th pick in this draft could yield any number of players that would be good and fill a position of need. Also, you have to think that extra picks this year have ever increasing value with Gamble now part of the staff.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            The only way I’d trade Foles was if I was sure I could keep pick 4, and with the pick in exchange for Foles I’d be sure I would parlay that pick into taking Geno Smith off the Board.

            Smith is accurate down the field and can hit every throw on the field. He’s shown himself to have a high Football IQ, there’s also some intrigue with USC Barkley but he has injury issues. However, the Eagles are in need first of possession receivers. The Eagles need a creditable possession receiver in the mode of Boldin who is capable of mixing it up and catching consistently in traffic.

    • DunedinEagle

      You do realize this is the Eagles we are talking about right? All the wrong moves has been the status quo for quite some time. The Vick decision carries on that tradition quite nicely if you ask me. Go ahead Eagles do it do it! I’ll come to the bon fire when they burn Chip and Howie at the stake you mentioned.

    • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.hardnock Stephen Hardnock

      I agree, but at the same time I DO believe that the Eagles should trade Foles. I mean you are definitly going to get back more then you spent on him so they are guarenteed to get KC’c 2nd round pick this year at least which ius the 34th overall pick and would give us consecutive top 3 picks in the 2nd round which would mean we could have potentially 3 first round pick quality players that slide out of the first round which would give us a great building foundation to start the Chip Kelly Era. Plus not alot of teams need QB’s this year and we would still have 3 QB’s left on our roster already as it is in Vick, Edwards (who was on fire in the pre-season last year), and Dixon (who you know he already knows Kellys offense. With alot of teams not needing QB’s as well. I see Barkley going to Jacksonville with the 1st pick in the 2nd ropund and after that I don’t see any other QB’s going for awhile. We could essentially get EJ Manuel in the 3rd round or a player like Denard Robinson really late in the draft just to add some young talent or insurancy pollicy if you will. So we can trade Foles before the draft or on draft day and still be just fine at that position. Plus Geno Smith could possibly fall to us at #4 and if we trade off Foles then we could take Smith ourselves because he would be a good fit in Kelly’s system and be a franchise QB to build around and start the Kelly era with as well. Or what I hope would happen because it would be the best possible outcome for our team in my mind is that we take Star Lotulelei with the #4 pick and have the best 2 defensive tackles in back to back years to build our defsive line around then trade Foles for KC’s 2nd round pick and then trade that pick to San Fran for the 31st pick and just bump up 3 picks and give them like a 5th or 6th rounder to do that and steal Manti Teo away from the ravens if he falls that far down. Then take the 6′ 2″ 208lb saftey from LSU Eric Reid with our 3rd pick in the 2nd round. Then draft a CB like Will Davis in the 3rd round and take a QB in the 4th round. So we would add Star Lotulelei, Manti Te’o, Eric Reid, Will Davis, and EJ Manuel all to our team. Then in free agency sign Andre Brown at Tackle (great player you can get at a decent price where Jake Long and Ryan Clady will all be WAY too much money). Then sign Jarius Bryd at our other saftey position and Anthony Spencer (if we happen to switch to a 3-4 defense and that’s also why I said to go after Manti Te’o). Then signa cheap and tall 6’4″ WR as a red zone target and we have got EVERYTHING we need to be super bowl champs in one year. Soi how about it?

  • Absecon

    Take a 2nd rd pick in this year’s draft and make sure you get EJ Manuel in 2nd or 3rd rd to replace Foles spot as project QB. Lets face it, Kelly is now coach and he needs his type of QB. He’s not here to develop Reid’s players. Foles has potential, but that’s it at this point….

    • MAC

      Manuel is a guy you believe can help eventually win a super bowl in the NFL? Seriously?

      • Nailed it!

        Did you think that about Wilson or kaepernick last year?

        • DunedinEagle

          Let’s see how those two look next year after defenses have a year to study the tape.

          • http://www.facebook.com/luke.mrzljak Luke Ivan

            Kaepernick maybe, Wilson isn’t all that different. He’s just a good QB.

          • nicksaenz1

            Exactly. I think there’s a reason you didn’t see the pistol/read option on the last series of the SB. The Ravens had it well figured out when it came to the goal line. The run Gore scored on wasn’t a read/option play.

          • aub32

            Right, because not running the read option was clearly the right move since it led to a ….. wait didn’t the Ravens win that game.

          • nicksaenz1

            They did. All I’m saying is that by the end of the game in a goal line situation, the 49ers didn’t use it because it wasn’t overly successful against the Ravens D in other short yardage situations.

          • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

            You defend like you defend any formation running an option, you attack the Quarterback. The Quarterback is the key. then you’ve limited the option sweep, or end run, to a dive or slant.

            Anyone here ever played against a wishbone offense? It’s the very same concept.

            Quarterback takes his read off the Defensive End,

  • MAC

    Now can all the people who tell me I am making assumption or “jump on the assumption train” when i say Kelly wants a mobile QB and that this is not a real QB competition please realize all evidence points to that! It also makes me feel that Kelly is not looking to adapt a system to his personnel rather get personnel for his system. Greg Cosell is a very respected player analyst. Keeping Vick and bringing in Dixon show that Kelly wants a mobile QB period!! I know he does not run the QB a lot as evident by his QB’s rushing stats at Oregon, but he wants a #’s advantage by using the threat of QB running to eliminate or occupy a defender. There is no threat with Foles running.

    • peteike

      I dont get the stats thing on Kelly QBs not running that much but I dont doubt its true. Just that when you watched Oregon play, the QB ran all the freeeeekin time. Always running the option around the edges. Sure to get a QB killed if they arent built for it, ala RG3. Kap is a big dude and can absorb more than most. I cant help but be negative with all these moves, its a bad feeling as a fan.

      • MAC

        The QB has not ran much in last 3 years under Kelly. However Kelly likes the idea of the threat of the QB running to make a defender have to deal with QB and to get #’s in favor of offense. However its also predicated on QB reading defense a lot to decide correctly who to give ball to or if should keep it. So his QB’s are asked to make good decisions presnap and immediately after the snap. So Vick’s perfect for that right? LOL
        People seem to think all of a sudden Vick is going to make good decision and then when does keep ball not fumble like he has all the time. This offense has not seen much success in NFL and this off season teams will adapt like the Ravens did to the read option. They will hit QB everytime on all read option plays and it will increase even more QB injuries and QB is just to important to put in harms way like that and win a championship. I share your concerns brother and have been skeptical of hiring since it happened. i wanted Gus Bradley, but will see if Kelly can be successful. I hope so man bc I bleed green, but this front office decision making has been suspect at best for a while,

      • theycallmerob

        You must have been watching a different game. Go look up the Oregon QB rushing stats (hint: I posted it in in previous blogs). And look at some of his past QBs too.
        As Richard Sherman has said to Darrelle Revis, “#’s don’t lie”

    • aub32

      Though I agree Kelly would prefer a mobile QB, I don’t see how you can say he’s not willing to adapt. It’s not like we resigned Vick to compete with Brady. We’re talking about Nick Foles. Also, what great FA pocket passer are we missing out on. Did you exalt want to give up draft assets for Smith or Flynn. We got a second and DRC for Kolb. I don’t even want to know the price tag on Smith.
      Also, remember all the trade rumors are media speculation. The eagles haven’t said they’re shopping Foles. At this point it looks like the competition is wide open, but I have a feeling you and others won’t see it that way. Fans need to accept the possibility that right now Foles is probably not a better QB than Vick, especially for this system.

      • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

        Foles isn’t a better QB now than Vick, but there is not a football team at any level willing to put a QB who runs a 40 in 5.6 in a position to run the keeper around end.

        Foles on a keeper is a sign of complete and unconditional surrender!

        • MAC

          Vick making decisions is a on who to give the ball to is a sign of surrender. He usually decides the defense by the way. So in Kelly’s offense where QB is required to read defense keeping Vick is essentially surrendering!

          • http://www.facebook.com/SHERIFF.POLICE.ALLIANCE Rickey Padgett

            I have been an eagles fan since I can remember at least 45 years now from the age of 6. I applaud Vicks ability to play the game but his injury prone risks are to great. Too many concussions and cracked ribs. I hope I’m wrong but time has shown I’m not! I don’t care about his past as he has paid his debt to society for h previous actions. This is football not a dog show! Time to show up on game day is needed for Vick.

      • MAC

        I do not like Alex Smith and never have period! Flynn I said I would consider but never said I wanted him. I just know that I do not want to watch the same QB play I have over last 2.5 years. It’s no fun knowing that your spotting the other team 2 turnovers a game.

        Kelly gave Vick 7.5 million if he is here week 1. So the open competition is not really true. Vick is better suited to run the option. The option is better suited in college though.If Vick is your teams best option at QB then you have a 4-12 team right? So lets keep going with that bc it’s got to get better at 34 yrs old right?

    • theycallmerob

      Sorry, I lost you when you said Cosell is respected.

  • Bdawkbdawk

    You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – The most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” – but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never make a deal with Andy Reid when a QB is on the line”

    a little football advice from Ron Reiner

    • nicksaenz1

      that’s priceless!

    • limodriver27

      I’ve been thinking the same thing since this buzz started. Wouldn’t it be a blast if Foles petered out under Reid, much like the QB’s he passed off to other teams have done?

    • planetx1971

      Diderot AWESOME movie reference AND point! LOL

  • UncleCarm

    Vick as a read option quarterback is not likely. First of all is the “read” part. He has shown no ability to read a defense. Second, these running quarterbacks that succeed in the read option can hold onto the ball. Vick fumbles nearly every time he runs. Usually he is down by contact, so it is not really a fumble, but I am tired of having a heart attack as that ball comes flying out at the end of the play. Hopefully if Vick starts, it will be more of the “threat of the run” and less actual running.

    • http://twitter.com/Lez215 Dutch

      Vick was a read option Quarterback at Virginia Tech and with the Falcons under Mora when He and Warrick Dunn both ran for over 1000 yards….. It’s apparent you don’t know much about an option run offense. There are 3 basic plays, slant, dive or sweep.

  • Damien

    Here’s how I look at it. If current day Foles were to just be put into the draft RIGHT NOW, he would be a top 10 pick. He would by far be the best QB in this class. So imo, we should no doubt get a 1st round pick. A smart team like the Patriots will. They’ll develop him into the next Big Ben and will be set for 5-10 years after Brady leaves.