The Checkup: Watch Out—Your Couch May Be Poisoning You

Yikes.


• Not to get you all freaked out or anything, but guys? That amazingly comfortable, insanely cool Dream Couch you spent months saving for might actually be really, really bad for your health. A new study out of Duke University, which analyzed the chemicals in cushions from 102 couches, found that a whopping 85 percent contained potentially toxic or untested flame-retardant chemicals that could be toxic to humans. According to Futurity.org, “Among the chemicals detected was ‘Tris,’ a chlorinated flame retardant that is considered a probable human carcinogen based on animal studies.” I don’t like the sound of that one bit. Oh, and just because got a vintage couch off Craigslist doesn’t mean you’re safe, either—the cushion samples dated between 1985 and 2010, so this clearly isn’t just an issue for newer couches. Check out what other chemicals researchers turned up here.

• Well, this is just weird: Did you know some medications don’t mix well with grapefruit? NPR reports on a study which found that some medications have severe side effects if you take them with grapefruit juice (or, say, with a breakfast of grapefruit), including causing super scary overdose-like symptoms. Read more here.

• Uh-oh, looks like the other white meat is in some hot water. A new study of pork products in the U.S. revealed that 69 percent were contaminated with a pathogen called yersinia enterocolitica. Symptoms include fever, cramps and bloody diarrhea. More here.

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  • knighn

    Sheil – good stuff as usual.
    Here are my numbers that matter most:
    1) 22-26 – the Philadelphia Eagles regular season record over the last three years
    2) 0 – the number of playoff wins for the Eagles over the last three years
    3) 0 – the number of Super Bowl wins for the Eagles over the last 47 years
    1 & 2 must come first, but I’m hoping that Chip Kelly can improve on all three!

  • Corry

    I would imagine those fumble numbers for either QB will go down under Kelly. First of all, the line will be healthy again. That will obviously help from a protection stand point and keep the QB from having a defender in his lap as soon as he snaps the ball. Second, Kelly puts a premium on getting rid of the ball quickly. You can’t fumble it if you’re getting rid of quickly (you can obviously, but the chances of outside forces making you drop the ball diminish when you don’t hold onto the ball waiting for a 20+ yard route to develop)

    • BrickSquadMonopoly

      If it was that easy wouldn’t fatty have done it already? oh right hes not a football coach

  • Chris

    I live in Baltimore and have seen enough Cary Williams over the last few years to know what we’re getting. He’s definitely not going to shut down anything, but he does tackle well which is something I’ve admired. He also is very physical with the receivers off the line, but sometimes he goes a little too far after the play and is known for fighting/penalties. I guess i’d rather take that than the soft guys we had last year, but I hope CK can keep him under control. Either way, here’s to more tenacity!

    • Andy124

      The good thing is I think we pretty much know what we’re getting. Low expectations for his coverage skills, high expectations for his tackling.

    • southy

      So no shutdown corner (if the stats told you that during FA we would have paid through the nose for this guy anyway) but perhaps a good piece of the puzzle, especially if the guy on the other side of the field is covering well.

      • Dutch

        Well you don’t have a guy on the other side of the Field who qualifies as a Covering Well Cornerback. The NFC East all but the Eagles are full of receivers who run exception routes who can get separation out of their cuts with blazing speed. They weren’t a problem with Samuels was covering in a zone, that’s not the case any more.

        • southy

          So what are you trying to say? I didn’t say we had that guy on the other side of the field, merely that Williams could contribute to a solid [in the future, you know, that CK is trying to develop] defense

          • illadelphia21

            I think what he’s saying is that since we don’t have a guy on the other side of the field that can keep up w/ wr’s, that we know of right now, and w/ Williams lack of coverage ability, that this secondary is in trouble. But yes Williams does bring, the physicality and aggressiveness that this D has sorely been lacking.

    • GEagle

      So you dont think that someone with only 2 years of playing experience can improve?
      ..
      Say he doesnt improve and he is what he is…We have holes in the secondary, and the defense will need atleast 1 more year of offseason additions, and young players developing before we can get where we need to be as a defense..However right now where we dont need to improve much is LB. Its by far the strength of our defense. Kendricks and Meco can both be Probowlers, Barwin is an abolve average OLB, and if Graham can improve on his strong 2012 season, we could be very effective at pressuring QBs, and nothing can cover holes like PRESSURE, and roughing up a QB can. You take our LB’s, and a young Monster who as a rookie DT had 5.5 sacks(thats impressive DT numbers) in Cox, and you put an emphasis on Blitzing and Disguise, we could really cause some havoc and get our hands on opposing QBs…our Corners are far from complete shutdown corners, but what they do well is jamming and roughing up recievers at the line, giving our Front 7 more time to get to the QB….That could be a very effective combo that can make us a much tougher defense THIS YEAR, then people anticipate…
      ….
      Of course, some factors need to fall into place for us to achieve that:
      1) We need to Gel as a Unit. Cox is literally going to be playing with all new guys with the exception of Thorton. LB’s I think will be fine..No starter in the secondary has any experience playing with the other 3 starters. How fast the secondary can Gel is very important.
      ..
      2) Becoming proficient in the defensive schemes. Barwin revealed that they basically learned, and relearned the defense 3 times so far this offseason. Will that be enough to perform our duties at an effective level? Schematic disguise and versatility can be our most significant addition on defense compared to last years vanilla Defense. But we need to really know and understand all the variations of what we are doing for Billy Davis to really unleash the Dogs. If we can run our defens and know it inside out, it will cause confusion at times for opposing offenses that lead to mistakes that we hope to capitalize on. But we cant be effective if we are confusing ourselves. How much of this defense will be ready in september?
      ..
      3)For me this year the trick will be trying to evaluate our defense. How much are we really improving? Last season was so dreadful on so many different levels that its literally impossible for our defense to not improve in every way possible..That we have to be careful to not over rate it because the bar has been set so low by a group of pathetic quitters…Its also crucial for our 2013 success that sophmore studs dont hit the sophmore slump(cox,Mykal,Boykin). If they slump in 2013 it doesnt neccessarily mean that they wont eventually become the studs they are destined to grow into, however our 2013 defense would suffer significantly if those 3 hit the dreaded sophmore slump. conversly Kendricks, Cox and Boykin taking a leap in quality of play could help us tremendously. Graham is OLDER but also in the same boat. last year was his first real year as a successful NFL contributor, building on Last year while carrying a significantly increased snap total is going to be very important for our success this year..Rookies need to contribute, and young players need to continue to improve..

      Im very curious to see how ready they are and how much of the playbook Davis can use in September. I dont need to see a top 10 NFL defense in 2013, but I do need to see a unit that fights, competes, and improves from month to month

      • Chris

        Nope, I did not say that he doesn’t have any room to improve, it would be crazy to say that ANYONE in the NFL has no chance of improving. My point was that I was happy with what we got, although I do not believe he is a shut-down type at this point, which is definitely not a stretch by any means.

        That being said, I do agree with you — we need to see the second year guys make a decent jump, and we need to keep an eye on the future. Also, working as a unit is so important, something we did not see at all last year.

  • JofreyRice

    haha, I remember people saying Nnamdi wasn’t that bad. Defending him to the end–saying we were being negative and overreacting. One of the worst FA signings in Eagles history.

    Demeco plays coverage the way a MLB should. Prevent catches with physicality, and limit the damage on balls caught in front of him; you don’t want him on really athletic passcatchers, though. Kendricks has a chance to be special in coverage, he does have the ability to stick with receivers, and make plays like a safety. I’m really hoping he plays with more confidence this year.

    One of Bryce Brown’s fumbles in the Carolina game was actually credited to Foles. When you actually watch the play, it’s really hard to put it on Foles. Now, Foles definitely needs to protect the ball better, but if we’re making the case that Foles was worse with ball security based purely on the numbers, I think it should be noted.

    • Brent E. Sulecki

      I was amazed how bad Nhamdi was. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing at times.

    • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

      Love watching Demeco play out there. He’s such a savvy vet. I remember watching or reading a piece on him about this tactic he uses on guys cutting across the middle. There’s a zone (not sure if it’s 2 or 5 yards on either side of the ball) that you’re allowed to jam the receiver freely. ANY receiver that would be running across the field in that zone near Demeco would get jammed hard and pushed back towards or behind the LOS. This was especially useful in 3rd and short situations where the LOS was essentially the 1st down marker. Subtle things like this seperate the average players from the good ones, Playing smart,

  • Andy124

    Foles absolutely did fumble too much. Given the opportunity, the odds seem very high that he’d improve on that for all the obvious reasons:

    Better line
    More experience
    Huge hands
    Scheme changes

    • GEagle

      No one can dispute last years fumbling issue. However as you pointed out, there is alot of improvements that give us hope that he can be much better in 2013…Unless injuries start to pile up, our Offense has many pieces that have potential to make it potent. Whoever the QB is, Foles or Vick, Im going to demand a significant leap in quality of play from last season. If either is worth a damn as a QB then there is just too much talent and potential sorrounding them, for them not to take a significant leap in quality from last season..
      ..
      There certainly is hope for Foles. Like 97% of great NFL QBs who played as rookies had fumbling issues. I cant recall many of them being thrust in a worse situation than Nick had to endure..So as much as I believe that because of how he handle last season, he should be given this season to see what he can do, Im going to expect and demand significant improvment this season if he is going to be the QB the following year.

      Historically, great QBs who got playing time and struggled mightly as rookies, made signifacnt improvements in their second season. Factor in the significant improvement of talent sorrounding him, and I believe that if Foles is going to be an NFL starter we should be pretty sure by the end of this season. He doesnt have to torch the league in 2013, but he should show significant improvements over the course of the season, and really cut down on mistakes from last season…with sorrounding talent comes great responsibility….There have been many more GREAT qbs who flat out Sucked as rookies, then great QBs who torched the league as rookies and then continued to build on it…I have a feeling that the Kid is wired correctly, and has the mental fortitude and football intelligence neccessary to be successful, and a physical skillset with plenty of precedent for success. Whether he can put it all together and grow into the type of QB that can take us where we want to be….that remains to be seen. But no matter how good he looks in practice, we cant ever know what he can be until we get to see what he can do with a season, in a helathy situation while the live bullets are flying….He has shown enough promise, and Vick has failed enough that In my mind, Foles has earned or will earn that much…How much more the Kid gets will be up to him. But I would expect Trent Dilfer to put up points with this offense if it remains healthy, so whoever is going to be our QB, the same is expected

      • southy

        Peyton threw 28 picks his rookie year. The team went 3-13 while he started every game. That’s twice the body of work we saw from our rookie.

        By blog logic that means he is a massive bust. We don’t need to see any more. He is a turnover machine and will never be more than a backup.

  • Max Lightfoot

    Once again, Sheil, you are the man. I think those numbers add up to six wins this season – but that’s an improvement, eh? Go Eags!

    • G_WallyHunter

      you Canadian eh?

  • juice

    4 of the 8 fumbles happened in his first 6 quarters.
    The other 4 over the next 20 Quarters. Foles had a problem, and improved.
    This compared to a guy who has put the ball on the turf 10+x a year every single year for his entire career.
    But this year will be different. Of course it will be.

    • G_WallyHunter

      3rd year’s a charm right?

    • Dutch

      You would expect a Quarterback to fumble……. given the blind side shots taken behind a weak offensive line.

      The fact he’s often stripped from behind when scrambling isn’t that surprising in and of itself either. In both cases, Foles isn’t a scrambler so what’s his story for laying the ball on the ground more often given the snap count than Vick?

      Remember, throwing interceptions and fumbling aren’t new developments for Nick Foles. But somehow that seems to escape the minds of those in support of Foles in these discussions.

      There aren’t issues we are saddled with watching Matt Barkley

      • southy

        Sooooo… If we know what Foles is (a turnover machine) after his 6 games, and we know what Vick is (a turnover machine that runs fast) after his 10 years, then why aren’t you guys clamoring for Barkley?

  • eaglepete

    I think Vick made a mistake re-signing here. Its a no win situation really, if he starts I really believe a large majority of fans will not be happy and he will be hearing it from the crowd. That alone will put pressure on both him and Kelly. I just dont see him playing well enough to offset that perception (mostly because of it being a new system with so many new players). I just dont see a ton of success there so whats the upside signing here, he knows he can beat out the competition? I think the fan base support means a lot, he could have gotten that elsewhere. Also, could have garnered more upward support if he played well competing on another team, dont think he has that here at all. Of course the other path is, he loses the starting job, still thinks hes the leader but has to sit. That cant play out well with his peers (nor fans once again), he will want out is my guess at that point.

    Not sure what he and his agent were thinking. Had to be other teams with better options that offered him more upside. That or he believes his best shot is Kelly succeeding right away as a coach and him being the starter, only thing I can think of and thats quite a reach if you ask me. Fan support matters to the team, coach and player, esp a star player at his age. Dont get it.

  • Fink

    Anyone have any opinions on the QB situation?

  • Jack Waggoner

    255 comments? Wow.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    I agree with that. Andy sure didn’t help the situation

  • Guest

    would playcalling be an even bigger part of that with a rookie and a crappy offensive line? You defend Vick by saying playcalling was a part of his disgusting performance, but what effect does the playcalling have on a rookie that’s thrown into the fire in possibly the worst scenario that any rookie QB could ever be thrown into…

  • theycallmerob

    goes both ways, you know

  • G_WallyHunter

    ewwww get rid of him already he’s a cancer

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    Nick still managed to put up one of the most passing yards/game for a rookie in recent years. even with the bad line. future looks good for him. IMO no way to defend Vick. but I get peoples argument.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    Nick is 3rd the last few years for rookie qbs behind LUCK and CAM passing yrds/game.

  • Dutch

    The Rookie was heralded as a pocket passing QB, Vick has never been associated with being a pocket passing Quarterback, and Andy Reid forcing Vick into progressions was a disaster waiting to happen. Vick should never be asked to go through progressions before following his instincts.

    If Foles can’t pull off an Andy Reid, vertical game, what can he, and he failed miserably last year in that offense supposedly tailored to his game. Bottom line Foles was no good at making quick decision, and following progressions in the routes and making decisions. His accuracy was horrible, and his arm came up short with everybody looking we all saw flutter balls thrown over receivers and on intermediate and short routes he had no anticipation and often threw the ball late and behind his receivers, three of his interceptions were to DJax, two behind DJax and the deep ball short of DJax.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Exactly, no way to defend Vick because the same defense can basically be said for Foles. Sure, Andy called some plays to help Foles like quick screens and comfortable check-downs, but he still made him throw close to 50 times a game lol.. the playcalling is almost as much of a defense for Foles as it is for Vick so it shouldn’t be used. This is a 12 year vet we’re talking about, being compared to a rookie who had no real off-season and who was thrown into the fire…

  • Joe Jones

    This “most passing yards/game” stat is true but misleading. Foles was also 29th in YPA, thus, he was throwing the ball alot. Why? Cause Andy “keep firing” Reid was our coach and our defense sucked, so we had to play catch up in virtually every game Nick played in.

    So, yes, Nick threw for over 240 yds/game but he needed a ton of attempts to accomplish it. If I pointed out that the team is 9-1(only loss being the meaningless last game of 2012) in NFC East games Vick has started and finished the last 3 yrs…that sounds like a pretty good accomplishment. Well, that also means his record against everybody else must really, really suck. It also means he didnt finish at least 3 games(2010 Wash, 2011 NYG, 2012 Dallas), and we lost all 3….injury prone? But we know that already.

  • Dutch

    Against Tampa Bay who just traded for a corner to help with their pass defense, they were so horrible they took on a $100 Million Dollar corner back to stop the leakings……. come on……. Tampa Bay had the worse Defensive Backfield in the Nation, to include BCS Teams. There were the 32nd Ranked pass defense in the NFL, three are only 32 teams.

    Father Judge could have thrown for 300 yds on Tampa Bay.

  • G_WallyHunter

    LOL that’s a rather glaring statistic, eh Vick Supporter? Behind a piece of crap Oline….

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    looking back at Nicks game logs. 2 -350 yd passing performances in his 7 games. not all starts either. if anyone watched they saw once Nick got comfortable out there he was cooking and hot moving the ball and getting his team up and down the field. accurate as well

  • Dutch

    No it’s not, Foles is the Pocket Quarterback, he was in his element and should have shined in a passing intense game plan. On the other hand, if there’s one thing a misinformed football fan would know it that Vick is not a pocket quarterback, no matter what andy tried to do with him.

    Vick is 15-7 with the Eagles in games he didn’t have to throw more than 35 times. You’re defeating yourself giving him a game plan to throw the ball more than 35 times. Vick has a better chance to come from behind if you don’t saddle him in the pocket and allow him to play to his instincts. We all seen that since he’s been in Philly. With the ball and trailing the Eagles with Vick is never out of the game.

  • G_WallyHunter

    I agree.. he looked real good at times and that can’t be argued. Sure, 8 fumbles. He came in when the team was in turmoil with pretty much 0 support except for BB.. and did pretty well. We should avoid making all these assumptions on Foles until we see him in this system, its a waste of time otherwise. We can make assumptions of Vick because 12 years have shown us that lol… Foles on the other hand, can’t be thinking we know what we have in him when all we’ve seen are those games. He showed moments of brilliance, and I believe that any real blunders that he had (cough, 8 fumbles) can be attributed to the terrible support system that he was forced to operate in… Vick had a relative terrible year in 2011.. behind one of the better Olines of the league (in the latter part of season, anyways)

  • aub32

    Those games were against the worst and 3rd worst passing defense. His stats weren’t nearly as good playing even mediocre defenses. You guys love to cherry pick and not tell the whole story when it comes to defending Foles. How does mentioning Foles had more fumbles than Vick turn into Vick bashing anway? If you want to say “Foles fumbled due to the line” Then that should apply for both QBs. If you want to poin out VIck’s injury, again that goes for both guys. The team around them wasn’t good and the coaching and lack of accountability didn’t help. Just please stop bashing one guy to push up the other. I would love for someone to just make a case for Foles without spewing Vick hate or using the rookie excuse every time someone mentions a flaw.

  • Dutch

    How could he not be accurate throwing check downs, and receivers racking up yards after short passes? He couldn’t hit the side of a barn 10 yards away. He could never hit DJax on a slant or crossing often throwing the ball where DJax was instead of where he is…… His average was only 6.4 yards per reception.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Dead excuse? so when does the point for Vick that “he’s a veteran who should be able to handle an NFL offense by this point” become relevant? One more season of 30 turnovers? or maybe 2

  • G_WallyHunter

    “He’s a rookie” excuse doesn’t really become dead until he’s started his second year (after his first off-season) and you can no longer call him a rookie

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    yeah I agree. 3 of his 8 came in a blowout against Washington. not that it helps. but maybe. yeah I def wanna see more Nick play. and def NO MORE Vick play. 12 years and still trying to figure it all out. holding the ball? really you don’t know to switch hands to the sideline side away from a defender and not carry it like a suitcase. SMH

  • aub32

    really?!? come on he gets a pass for all his blunders. He still played with NFL talent and showed he had legitimate flaws. I find it so funny how the fans that want Foles so badly (cough hate Vick for one reason or another) can’t just be critical of Foles. I am not saying he’s awful or will never amount to anything, but let’s be real.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Pretty much lol Vicks had his chances to prove he can play… he’s just stupid. Don’t get me wrong, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HIM REPEAT HIS 2010 PERFORMANCE… but I just can’t buy it its too expensive. Not to mention Kelly needs a quick decision maker and we all know the Vick is the opposite of that. You can’t fix stupid. Time to bring in someone who masters the cerebral part of the game, not someone who puts up over 2 turnovers a game

  • BrickSquadMonopoly

    Has to be one of the worst coaches in NFL history. Makes me believe with a team of half-competent assistants a head coach doesn’t really have to do all that much…especially considering how he handled the media what exactly did he do?

  • Andy124

    Being a rookie isn’t an “excuse”. It’s a critical factor in any player evaluation. How does anybody who watches football try to deny that?

    How did Vick do against the 2nd worst passing defense?

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    Foles is good. Vick stinks.

  • nicksaenz1

    Being a rookie isn’t an excuse for his play last season. It’s a fact.

  • G_WallyHunter

    you’re right, I’d go edit it but I’ll leave it. I didn’t mean to say “Any real blunders” lol but just more that many of his blunders can be excused much faster than any of Vicks blunders can. I don’t hate Vick, I don’t want Foles so badly, I just want the best QB available. I’m not one of those biased Vick haters, I judge him by his play in recent years. I can be critical of Foles, some of his blunders were downright rookie 3rd rd QB mistakes, I was just saying and what I meant was that Foles’ blunders can be excused far easier than Vick’s can

  • G_WallyHunter

    he managed the clock that’s one thing they let him do

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    Uhh… how about 5 NFC championship appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance, 10 playoff wins, and over a decade of the Eagles always being a contender in the NFC East?

    Andy had his faults but let’s not kid ourselves, he wasn’t a terrible coach. Anybody that can coach 14 seasons in one city and keep a record above .500 in regular season and playoffs is not even close to one of the worst coaches in NFL history. That’s just plain ridiculous and wrong.

  • G_WallyHunter

    I think the fact the Foles had no offseason and was thrown into the fire cannot be used as an excuse. Just because he was a rookie and had never played before shouldn’t have any sort of validity when comparing him to a 12 year vet who has never really hit the nail on the head. Come on, when they come into the league they’re expected to play better than an incompetent 12 year vet, even a 3rd rounder!

  • aub32

    If you’re going to say “he’s a rookie” that’s fine if he’s on the bench as a developing plyer, but if you want him as the starter then you have to look at last year as your base. Yes he will improve, but none of us know how much. So either he is a starting QB in the NFL or he isn’t. That should be the debate and the standard, not how he did being a rookie. If you want him as your starting QB, judge his performance as you would any starting QB.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    im with you Wally. sure id like a 2010 season. but it isn’t happening. Vick has never got better. jury is still out on Foles. and for me that’s good enough.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Precisely, now we may be kicking ourselves in the arse when Vick repeats 2010, but just don’t see it happening. I’d rather put my faith in a rookie who showed moments of brilliance AS WELL AS some rookie blunders than put my faith in a QB who we know what we get and we know most flaws (inside the brain) can’t be fixed. Again, I like Vick, I proudly wear his jersey that’s in my closet. I am not a dog-loving Vick-hating biased fan. I just don’t see him winning this competition.
    There’s no sense in us arguing about Vick/Foles, might as well wait for TC to come when people can actually get some valid analysis. Trying to argue who’s better based on last year’s results is pretty stupid when they will both be operating a new system, we have no idea what to expect. HAVING SAID THAT, we don’t know what to expect with Vick either, but again, I’d rather put my faith in the optimistic unknown rather than thinking a 12 year vet will finally get it right in an environment of quick decision making and minimized turnovers in which he has never shown any hint of mastery…..

  • G_WallyHunter

    lmao that’d be funny… well not as an eagles fan… but jeeze would we ever hear it from cowboys and giants fans haha

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    right on

  • Brian

    And Vick isn’t as good as the fans are making him… mainly because they’re blind. IMO

  • nicksaenz1

    I’ve never read a post on here where people made Foles out to be the next Montana. And you forgot the interception rate when discussing turnover machines, (which doesn’t include arbitrary figures like “dropped INTs”) where Vick had a higher rate per pass attempt. And to only look at Foles’ “dropped INTs” and dismiss Vick’s makes for a bad argument. The Eagles QB play, in general, needs to improve. Some of us would just rather see a guy with upside than a guy who’s on the downside of his career. That’s all.

  • Elliptical Man

    Vick was a veteran QB with a ton of starting experience. Foles was a rookie who was forced into a starting role on an injury-ravaged team that had already been eliminated form contention. Their fumble rates should not have been at all similar. The fact that they were says only horrible things about Vick.

  • aub32

    No offeseason??? He definitely had an offseason. What ar you talking about?? The lockout was the 2011 season, and he got more preseason work than anybody. I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

  • Brian

    Michael Vick comp-204 att-351 pct-58.1 att per game-35.1 yds-2,362 avg-6.7 avg per game-236.2 td-12 int-10 rating 78.1
    Nick Foles comp-161 att-265 pct-60.8 att per game-37.9 yds-1,699 avg-6.4 avg per game-242.7 td-6 int-5 rating-79.1

    However slightly, Nick Foles outperformed Michael Vick. The only question remaining is: Who has more upside, Vick (11th year), Foles (2nd year), Barkley (Rookie)? I’ve never hated Vick, but statistics don’t lie. Unless Chip Kelly believes we can win a championship with Michael Vick, it’s time to move on and figure out what we need to contend in 2+ years.

    Stats from NFL.com

  • aub32

    In my opinion they both have the same excuses/reasons. Poor O line play, poor coaching, zero accountability, and players not giving a full effort. Those excuses/ reasons apply to them both equally. Then there’s their individual flaws. Vick: ball too long, injuries, hero, etc. Foles: (ball too long, arm, chooses WRs, etc.) Now it’s fair to say you think Foles can improve based on th fact he was a rookie, but we don’t know how much, whereas we all know what VIck is after 12 years. For me, I think Vick (when things are going right) can play much better than what I saw of Foles last year. Foles has to prove that he has learned from his mistakes last year and can outperform Vick with his known flaws.

  • theycallmerob

    Nick was drafted in ’12. you’re thinking of Kafka. Getting 3rd QB reps, and playing garbage time in preseason games before holding the clipboard all season is not an “offseason” for a rookie who ends up starting midway through.

  • G_WallyHunter

    My mistake, Foles had a full off-season of 3rd team reps and great preseason experience (remember how great he looked in preseason with so little reps, thats a positive). I mixed up the NHL lockout with the NFL lockout, us canucks can get wacky in the head like that, too much dank

  • G_WallyHunter

    Completely agreed.. great unbiased post. Again, I was never trying to bash Vick, I like him and I would consider taking a life to guarantee he has a season like 2010. I think, if Vick can be a much better decision maker, that yes he can play better than Foles. Like you said, I am merely going off the fact that we know what we have with Vick and that Foles is still a mystery with a ceiling that we are unsure of. I agree, the excuses do apply to both, I just give more favor to Foles as a result because he is still unknown. I’m still hoping Vick shows brilliance again and lights it up 2010 style lol

  • OregonDucker

    Great unbiased post. The only thing I would add is that there are 4 QBs in the hunt, and one QB for practice fodder. I suspect there were internal team politics to consider in playing Vick and Nick during OTAs on the one and two squads.

    IMHO, the competition in TC and PS is NOT just between Vick and Nick.

  • aub32

    No I’m thinking Nick. Last I checked Foles was in camp last year. I have pictures. The previous commentor said no offseason. There were def OTAs and the like.

  • cliff henny

    yeah, i dont get why this fact is so hard to grasp. foles was an afterthought till midway thru preseason. he certainly wasnt getting any 1st team reps and the offense was not based around any of his strength, like a luck or RG3. foles was 100% tossed into the fire, limited time with first team in an offense built around an athletic freak. he did pretty well, not great.

  • Run Eagles Run

    foles was 2nd string Qb, and got a lot of playingf time in the preseason. unless you are refering to kafka

  • theycallmerob

    “The lockout was the 2011 season, and he got more preseason work than anybody.”

    So, how does the lockout help him? and how did he get more preseason work? Even with Chip’s affinity for getting reps (way beyond what Reid did for anyone but the 1’s), would you really say that Barkley is having an offseason comparable to Vick/Foles this year? Is he as prepared? Did RG3 and Luck, et. al, not have a distinct advantage last year?

  • cliff henny

    yeah, but let’s be honest, nick was not getting any reps with the 1’s, heck probably not with the 2’s either. to say foles was thrown to the wolves mid season is accurate. saying he handled it well isnt saying you want him qb’g next year either. but, do think he deserves the chance he’s getting cause of what he showed. see what happens in TC.

  • Run Eagles Run

    he was in camp, and he was 2nd string, and he got a lot of preseason action cause guys were injured

  • G_WallyHunter

    Agreed… if Vick comes in and plays amazing then that would be great. We all want that. But if he plays poorly and shows signs of the last two seasons, it’s time to invest the rest of the efforts into the 2 young guns on the bench that both show potential of taking over with the right development. I like Barkley a lot, the one thing that can’t be over-looked is that he has started 8 years straight at QB… his experience, decision making abilities, football IQ, and poise might win him the job come mid-season… I can’t see him getting it week 1.

  • aub32

    To be honest, as much as we would all love to see 2010 Vick, 2011 Vick wasn’t that bad. I think it’s asking way too much of any QB to perform consistently at Vick’s 2010 level. He was in the MVP discussion despite missing games. That’s near unheard of. I think Vick just needs a system that doesn’t have him dropping back 40+ times a game. Tire out the D lin and slow the rush with the ground game, and let Vick facilitate and occasionally flash.

  • G_WallyHunter

    lolol ya the last 4 seasons may have been regrettable, but really? One of the worst coaches in NFL history? I am extremely thankful for the first 10 years of dominance that I was able to experience as a new eagles fan, I started in 02, I will never utter disrespectful words about that coach.

  • theycallmerob

    exactly. I’m not riding the Foles train yet. But this is beyond ridiculous. Besides all the reasons you listed, Foles was not just thrown into the fire- it was like the 6th circle of hell last year as far as the organization was concerned. We all knew Reid was gone by week 10. No one could do well.

    The mere fact that Foles didn’t retire leads me to believe he’s already tougher than Maclin.

  • JofreyRice

    It’s not hard to grasp. The anti-Foles people are being intellectually dishonest.

  • aub32

    I think you are missing what I am saying. The prvious comment said “I think the fact the Foles had no offseason and was thrown into the fire cannot be used as an excuse”. I was asking how Foles didn’t have an offseason. Rookies that came in 2011 had no offseason due to the lockout. That wasn’t the case with Foles. He had a complete offseason. He also had more preseason playing time than anybody due to injuries to Vick and Kafka. I am not saying that little bit of experience should be enough o prepare him to take over. I just didn’t understand the previous comment, and it plays into the what I have been saying about fans and Foles, and they are ready to give him every excuse possible just because we have an incomplete picture of what he is. I hope this clears up the confusion.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Ya agreed as well, he started playing much better down the stretch if I remember correctly? Once the Oline got in place and acclimated at about mid-season?
    I like that thinking, as we discussed, playcalling was an issue for both Foles and Vick. Vick dropping back 40+ times a game like Andy had him doing isn’t the proper way to use those talents (Foles was doing the same). This is where I start arguing in Vicks favor lol.. I have dreams of CK properly using the RB corps of McCoy/Brown/Jones/Polk along with the rest of the starting offensive players to better fit Mike’s abilities with the other 10 players. If CK does this well, then no question Vick has a great year and hopefully stays healthy. If CK ensures that Vick is facilitating a top-tier RB corps and occasionally flashing, he obviously has a much better chance of staying heathly due to less hits

  • cliff henny

    my curiousity needs to be fed. i’d love to roll the dice with vick for the first 6 games. vick/kelly combo could be the stuff dreams are made of. if he falls flat on his face, pull the ripcord and bring in either kid. glad kelly is running his camps the way he does, sure foles will be chomping at the bit waiting, and be more prepared than any other back-up out there. or vick plays great for 6 games and blows out 5 ribs like usual, and then foles comes in. either way, foles will get his chance.

  • aub32

    And some of us would rather see the guy with declining but far from done over the young gun just to “see what happens” The great thing about Foles is that he is young and can sit for a year and be better prepared when he actually is the best QB on this team. Let the best man win until then and let the decision not be influenced by “potential” or past successes.

  • Run Eagles Run

    except foles has no upside. he is what he is. a back up.

  • Run Eagles Run

    “I’ve never read a post on here where people made Foles out to be the next Montana” I’ve seen it a lot… people bring up a negative aspect about foles, and someone is there with a comment “oh well john elway… oh well joe montana…” Ive see foles name in the same sentence with a lot of HOF QBs in the comment section of this site, and its laughable. Nick Foles is no different than kevin kolb or aj feely.

  • theycallmerob

    ” incomplete picture of what he is”

    Trust me, no confusion there! I’m not at all sold on Foles. I simply hate the idea that to promote one QB, you have to bash the other. And to use last year’s stats at all is an affront to both QBs, due to the overall atmosphere.

    Last season magnified the tumor that, IMO, developed after Donnie left. A lot of fans don’t remember the days before having a franchise QB. Foles and Barkley simply present an unknown option, while Vick is the aging Golden Apple- a temptation to fans and coaches alike, in lieu of his historically inconsistent play.

    Whoever starts behind center this year will probably look amazing compared to last year, what with the presence of a professional o-line and actual running game.

  • aub32

    we are in agreement.

  • aub32

    rob I have expressed the same sentiments in numerous posts. I don’t judge Foles vs Vick. I judge Foles based on what I want to see in a starting QB. What I saw last year was ok for a backup/project but not my starting QB. On the flip side I have seen Vick look and perform like a top QB in this league when he didn’t have a team collapsing around him. Could Foles do that as well? Maybe. I don’t know. I can only make projections based on what I have seen. That’s why I am throwing in my hat with the guy I have seen win and perform well, until I see otherwise.

  • G_WallyHunter

    We have no idea what to expect with the new system and therefore have no idea what to expect out of these QBs… Let the best man win. Can’t wait till TC when it gets much clearer

  • nicksaenz1

    For all we know he may be the best QB on the team to run the new O. We’ll find out come TC.

  • knighn

    Mike Vick will be 33 before the start of the season. Donovan McNabb played his last game right before he turned 35. McNabb was a far superior all-around QB to Vick with the passing stats and many post-season wins to prove it. Among those stats: McNabb was far less likely to turnover the ball. McNabb was also injury-prone, but far, far less injury-prone than Vick. Like it or not: Vick is very close to done (within two years). The only question: How close?
    If Vick is able to run Chip Kelly’s offense better than other QBs, Vick will go out with a bang. If not, he’s likely to go out just like McNabb did: with a wimper.

  • G_WallyHunter

    you both agree on the same thing here lol. I’m with both of you, not trying to judge both or be biased, just going off of what we have, past, present, and upside/future

  • theycallmerob

    Boy, I can’t wait for August and September to get here and just let this thing play out. True, based on performance and skillset alone, I would also tip my hat to #7. However, when I put on my big picture goggles, a few intangibles make me lean towards Foles/Barkley. (1) Age, (2) Injury history; played 16 games once, (3) inconsistency; never played two good seasons back to back, and (4) Contract; Vick is UFA next year. If he plays well, there’s no chance of a long-term deal from Lurie. I don’t think he’s the key to the Super Bowl in the next year or two.

    Honestly, if the worst thing to happen is Vick gets cut and neither Foles/Barkley pan out, I’ll live. We’ll have another high pick next year for Kelly to grab HIS qb, and continue to develop the team in his vision.

  • cliff henny

    way way WAY too much agreement and rational thinking going on here in a vick vs foles discussion…where’s dutch?!

  • G_WallyHunter

    GREAT ANALYSIS… AGREED

  • aub32

    I’m sorry but age and injury aren’t big factors for me. As big as Foles is he still got hurt in less than half a season as a starter. Anyone can get hurt. So I am not choosing my players based off of “what if they get hurt??”

    In regard to age, I think Vick is a special case. Players leave the game due to age because their physical abilities diminish. Ray Lewis was able to extend his career due to his understanding of the game. Vick is the complete opposite. His physical gifts are so great that even while diminishing he still has abilities that some of the greatest QBs would change religions to have. Therefore, him aging will not hurt his play as much as it would others.
    If Vick can win this division again I would undoutedly want him back. I never thought I’d see Flacco win the big one, and I’d have lost everything I owned if you bet me Eli would beat Brady twice. You can’t ensure a SB victory, but you can at least be legitimate in your quest for it by putting the best guys available on the field.

  • aub32

    I completely agree with that, but I perosonally think if Vick can grasp the scheme it won’t even be a competition. However, I am going based on what I have seen, and as much as I would love to be, I’m not there everyday. So I agree Kelly will not evaluate anyone on a curve and will choose the best QB for the job regardless of names, status, or experience.

  • G_WallyHunter

    HAHAHA.. he’ll be comin around the mountain when he comes

  • G_WallyHunter

    ya his level of unbiasness (that probably makes no sense) is something I’ve never seen before. The media always asking who’s ahead of who and his answers are just completely general and very logical lol, the player who shows the best gets it. It’s good to see that as a fan, to be reassured that the evaluation process will be completely fair and unbiased and that the man who’s making the evaluation decisions is the one who believes that being unbiased is extremely critical, at every position, not just QB.

  • cliff henny

    Vick would have to lead us the NFC champ game to get resigned. we keep saying it’s vick vs foles, that half true, it’s vick vs foles vs manzeil/marioti/etc, kelly knows what’s coming out in ’14 draft. even a champ game, i’m still drafting qb. i’ll give vick ’13, but in no way do i trust him enough with kelly’s future.

  • theycallmerob

    Well, I guess at this point we’ll just have to agree to disagree. For me, those are HUGE factors. There’s a difference between players getting hurt, and players being injury prone. Vick is the latter. No scheme or flak jacket will change that.
    And with regard to age, his physical skills have started, and will continue to regress. Yes, those are the skills others would dream of, but let’s not all pretend he has a great mental game to fall back on.

    Ray Lewis’ skills definitely declined, they simply were masked by those around him. Nowhere to hide a bad QB. And even so, Ray brought waaaaay more to that team than just his physical abilities, and Vick is nowhere near the player Ray ever was.

    And I see you didn’t mention his inconsistency, #3 above :)

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    Apples to oranges comparing Vick to Lewis. You can’t rotate or hide a QB with declining play. Lewis had the brains and ability throughout his career. Vick really only had the ability to be honest, and that ability is definitely slipping, even if it is better than some other guys. Vick has never been a rah-rah type guy like Lewis, more of a lead by example, but that’s difficult to do when you’re playing poorly.

    I think Vick will suffer more so because of age than most QB’s because of his lack of other intangibles besides his physical ability. If he can’t run, he really can’t do all that much. When you see a guy like Peyton or Brady out there who may be losing some zip on the ball but can still effectively break down a defense, they will have more luck playing into their mid to late 30’s than a guy like Vick.

  • nicksaenz1

    only 5 ribs?

  • cliff henny

    think vick lives his normal everyday life with 3 perma-broken. so, 5 ontop of that. the man is tough, give him that

  • knighn

    Makes sense and you were so close!
    “unbiasedness”

  • aub32

    I said that two of those points don’t matter to me in regard to Vick. Only a fanboy would try and dismiss inconsistentcy as not being important. I am hoping by reducing his workload from 40-50 to 15-25 throws a game, he can be more of a facilitator that flashes when called upon.
    I agree it’s hareder to hide a bad QB, but I wouldn’t call Vick a bad QB. I think he is good enough to win games in this league. He does need help from his line coach and RBs, but very few teams can say they’re QB can do it alone. Hell, Peyton only won his the year other guys stepped up.

  • aub32

    I disagree. If Vick can win 9-11 games with all the changes going on this season I believe you will hear a very different cry from fans and the media alike. Fans are fickle. They will go with the hot hand, and again Kelly can still go after his QB of the future, and have them sit behind Vick for a year or 2.

  • aub32

    His decling speed and arm are still greater than Brady in his prime. Vick’s decline can’t be viewed the same. Also, I believe the system can definitely hide a QB. Did you see Wilson play the first half of the season or A. Smith?

  • JofreyRice

    The guy made a career out of passing the test guessing because of his physical abilities. He doesn’t consistently show understanding of what defenses are showing him, or mundane QB 101 things, like finding passing lanes. He can’t hold on to the football and his body is bashed apart. Of course he’s still the most athletic QB on the team, but you don’t become a great QB in the NFL by running.

    If he beats Foles out, I think there is a chance the franchise will be in full fledged “find a QB” mode, come next offseason. Guys like Trent Green & Rich Gannon didn’t hit their stride until their early-to-mid 30’s, but it’s pretty damn rare–it’s unlikely Vick will be joining that group.

  • nicksaenz1

    I’ve never questioned it. It’s actually incredible that he gets the crap kicked out of him week in and week out and still comes back for more. And I don’t recall him having thrown the line under the bus for it either, which is equally impressive. Most people hit a certain point and people start getting called out.

  • G_WallyHunter

    HAHA damn.. close guess. Surprised it’s a word. I looked smart for a second there lol

  • cliff henny

    oh, no doubt fans are fickle. think kelly by signing vick made qb a ’14 issue, like safety. too many holes to fill in 1 off-season. can vick get another contract out of the eagles, i’d be shocked. he’d have to play out of this world great. whatever kelly/howie decide next offseason on qb, draft, foles, barkley or vick, that’s who they’ll be tied too. every coach gets to hand pick 1 qb.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    No one will deny Vick has one of if not the biggest arm in the NFL. But that really only gets you so far. If you can’t make the correct reads, pick up the blitz properly, or the hot routes, then what good is a cannon? We’ve already seen he can’t make by on his big arm and his feet alone. What makes you think the rest of his game is all of a sudden going to come to him? If this system is going to hide Vick he’ll need to improve on parts of his game that he’s never really shown improvement on in the past. I’m not exactly holding my breath on this.

  • nicksaenz1

    Jeff George had a cannon, too.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    What has Vick shown you over his career that makes you believe he’s been doing anything else but improvising? He’s admitted already that he never really learned how to read a defense. That he can’t learn how to slide properly.

    I never said Vick faked being an NFL QB. He’s made it by on his physical traits and not his football IQ. It’s not really deniable considering Mike has already admitted it himself.

  • JofreyRice

    He makes a lot of decisions that aren’t that savvy. Remember the Cowboys game a few years back when B-West took a handoff, and had a clear lane to the endzone in the fourth Quarter, but went down on the one yard line, to ice the game for the Eagles, because scoring a TD would have given Dallas the ball back? That’s football savvy & intelligence.

    OK, now contrast that to the way Vick, just signed as the franchise QB, and having thrown his 3rd INT in a preseason game, dove headfirst at the interceptor, Troy Polamalu during the preseason of 2011. Think about Antoine Winfield coming from the slot time after time in the Tuesday night Vikings game in 2010. Think about Kerry Rhodes coming from the right side of the formation, and Vick not even looking over there, when Rhodes forced a fumble when the Eagles were in the redzone, this past year. I don’t know how he’d do on an IQ test, but observation of those things scream a lack of situational awareness.

  • aub32

    I don’t see where the disagreement is here. I have said time and time again if Vick can get this scheme (here or elsewhere) he will do well, and if not I don’t see a place for him. I am not saying Vick will be our guy 5 years from now, but I also don’t know what the team will look like then. If you ask me, the window for this offense is the next 3 years before it looks drastically different (players not scheme)

  • aub32

    It got Flacco a superbowl

  • cliff henny

    some of are already in that mode. just see many more likely scenerios that end with us drafting bridgewater or marioti in ’14, than dont.

  • Andy124

    So you readily admit that Foles will improve, but you don’t want to factor that very common potential improvement into forming your opinion of who should start.

    I’m sure you’d agree that players of Vick’s age and mileage tend to decline, but you don’t want to factor that very common regression into forming your opinion of who should start.

    Ok, got it.

  • theycallmerob

    Please, Flacco earned every bit of that MVP distinction. He’s played well every year out of college, consistently improving his mental game. Last year was the culmination of a good supporting cast, good coaching, good scheme change (when Caldwell took over as OC mid-season, giving Flacco more line control similar to Peyton).

    Flacco has shown more ability as an NFL quarterback in 5 years than Vick showed in 10. And that’s why he has a ring.

  • JofreyRice

    What? Once Cam Cameron’s antiquated offense was updated by Jim Caldwell, Joe Flacco had one of the best playoff runs in NFL history. Besides having one of the strongest arms in the league, he was very accurate, and stood in the face of pressure, and delivered the ball into tight windows.

    There were more plays he made on that playoff run than just the long bomb to Jacoby Jones in the Denver game, you know. The guy was making phenomenal throws all over the field.

  • JofreyRice

    here, here. Guy is criminally underrated, even now. I’d take Joe on the Eagles in a heartbeat.

  • aub32

    Please read my response to JR

  • Run Eagles Run

    if you look at flaccos passing percentage, it isnt much better than vick’s. its a amazing what a good d and o line will do for a QB. first half of the year ravens fans fuckin hated precious joe.

  • theycallmerob

    The fact that Flacco and Montana are now in the same sentence when you ask about “greatest playoff QB performance ever” speaks for itself. Also the fact that he holds the all-time record for road playoff wins.

  • aub32

    Right there was the bomb to Jones in the SB, the bomb to Boldin, the other bomb to Boldin. Did you watch how they accumulated yards. There was nothing methodical about it. Flacco put the ball up and his receivers got it while maintaining a steady running attack.

  • illadelphia21

    Had to give you a thumbs down for the point about the bomb to Jones during the Denver game. That ball hung in the air for so long, more vertically than down field, and the most important fact was that the safety who should have had an easy pick completely pulled a Coleman and screwed Denver. As far as the rest of the playoffs, and I say this as not being down on Flacco, Boldin was the man who bailed the entire B-More offense out with one amazing tough catch after another and just beat down cb’s on nearly every throw. And he did it some more in the Super Bowl. So yes Flacco is good and has an amazing arm but don’t sit here and act like he pulled a Brady and made his wr’s look better than they actually were. Cause especially w/ Boldin, it was the other way around.

  • knighn

    I guess my disagreement was with the “…but far from done…” part. As I stated: I honestly believe Vick has, at most, two years left in him. To me that makes him “close to done”. Unless Vick’s smoothie is made at the fountain of youth, I see very little chance of him being back next year (about the same chances Vick has of reaching all of the incentives in his contract for this year).

  • cliff henny

    he should have burt reynolds in the longest yard gunned one into watkins junk as poorly as he played.

  • southy

    well, sometimes the line needs to be called out. not that it wasn’t obvious to everyone on and off the field that 4 out of 5 of them were completely lost, but a little nudge from the qb couldnt hurt.

  • aub32

    I really think you’re missing that thing on the sideline called a bench. If anything Vick would be a better asset to keep in grooming a ’14 QB. Think if Vick wins double digit games with Floes performing well in 2. Now you resign Vick and trade Foles for assets (The Ole’ Andy Reid Special) and use those assets to move up and get your guy. Now Vick keeps the team competitve for the next 2 years while Barkley and whomever duke it out to be Kelly’s guy. Does this happen? How the F should I know, but a case can be made for any scenario. The point is not to rule anything out just because Vick and Foles had a bad 2012.

  • G_WallyHunter

    EXACTEMON… no sense wasting all this time debating, should save the debate for after the 4th pre-season game….

  • nicksaenz1

    Well, there’s still a chance for Watkins to turn himself into a great 1st rd backup…

  • nicksaenz1

    The debate is fun. Always interesting to see what people are paying attention to and the regard they give to certain factors of play.

  • aub32

    How many rookie QBs were ok and improved but never improved enough. I have a bar in which I want my QB to reach. Foles was no where near that bar. Can he be? It’s very possible. However, it has to be seen. Vick has reached that bar and though he’s declining he still has gifts Foles would kill for. So I am going with the guy based on what I know of him versus the guy I don’t. I really don’t see the confuion. You seem to be fauling me for not projecting Foles to fix the myriad of issues he had last year while learning a new scheme that taiors more to the other guys physical skill set. All this projection about how smart Foles is is media driven. I watched him play. He did ok, but he wasn’t Brady or Manning dorecting traffic.

  • nicksaenz1

    What is this arbitrary bar you have?

    Edit: And is there happy hour?

  • Andy124

    We agree on a lot of things. The QB should be and will be decided in TC/PS.
    We don’t know if Foles will improve enough to be a good QB.

    Don’t you want to see if Foles improves enough? Isn’t the scenario that he does improve enough more likely than the scenario that Vick improves enough? Seeing as they were about the same last year, they would both have to improve about the same amount in order to be good enough. Rookies on the average, improve a lot more than 10-year vets. We hold these truths to be self-evident. However, you think we should bank on the less-likely scenario. The one where a 10-year vet improves more than a rookie.

    You’re welcome to your preferences. But this little mini-conversation starting with you discounting his rookie status, which just doesn’t fit in with your usually well-reasoned opinions.

  • G_WallyHunter

    that seems like a shut down to me. he should change his username to Biased Vick Supporter it would make more sense.

  • cliff henny

    1st rounders dont sit anymore though, certainly not top 10 like a marioti or bridgewater, unless they S the bed next year. not ruling anything out, but another yr after ’13 is highly unlikely to me. a, dont think vick will win enough to get resigned, and b, sooner or later vick-fatigue is going to set in. i’m for vick cause i want to see it, but the only thing i am 100% certain of in this season is, he will get hurt. not a matter of if, but when.

  • aub32

    We shall see cliff. Again fans are fickle. If and I know it’s a big if Vick wins. Many of you will change your tune.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Very true. the very purpose of this blog. I just try not to waste too much time on it myself lol because ya, as you mentioned, come TC time we may all be surprised and some of our opinions now may be drastically changed the other way

  • aub32

    Winning a division (2010), averaging 25+ ppg (2011) having the ability to put the team on his back if need be for a critical win. Let’ not act like 2012 was the only year Vick played football.

  • aub32

    And the fact is rookie or not I didn’t see enough to warrant me wanting him as my starting QB. That may change next I see him. I don’t get why you all don’t get that. You’d much rather want to believe in what you think he can be. Every QB doesn’t fix all his flaws from year one to year two. If that were the case every team would have multiple franchise QBs.

  • nicksaenz1

    So 7 games wasn’t enough to reach this bar you had given the circumstances Foles had to play under. Already a biased opinion.

  • aub32

    I will take two years if he’s the best available option.

  • Dutch

    If Vick has a successful year the only thing that would keep him in Phila is his wife being a Phila Born and Breed Home Girl. At the rate teams in the NFL are converting to some type of option offense there will be work in the league for Vick and quarterback who offer Vick type skill sets.

    Team used to say pretty much the same things about Warren Moon. Soon as Houston switched to a run and shoot offense Warren Moon’s passing skills were unleashed. Unleashed enough to put Warren Moon in the NFL Hall of Fame. Vick’s not a pocket passing Quarterback who reads progressions in the route. Moon was capable of playing in the pocket in a similar offense to the spread option that didn’t require reading progression. Dan Marino was the same way. He was not much in reading defenses and progressions in the route, but boy could he sling the ball and he was accurate.

  • nicksaenz1

    Religion is based on the belief of a guy healing people and forgiving sins and no one since 33 A.D. has ever seen it. Why can’t people believe in Foles’ ability? At least they’ve seen a little bit of it.

  • cliff henny

    reports have come out the foles has improved his arm strength and his release is quicker. the kid is getting better. he’ll get 2 pre-season games and a full TC running with the 1’s, and think he deserved that chance based off of what he did last year under less than ideal circumstances

  • cliff henny

    i dont know my man…vick-fatigue was already setting in last year when he went down. why foles got the benefit of the doubt. wasnt that he played that great, was that he wasnt vick. even if eagles win, sure alot of itwill be attibuted to kelly scheme, and a marioti or briedgewater type will be needed for the future. i cant see eagles as a team doing enough to save vick here in philly, defense is going to be rough. and i want to see him play in kelly’s offense, think it would be fun to watch for however long it lasts.

  • nicksaenz1

    I want the best man to win and lead the Eagles, regardless of who it is. I just differ in my opinion of who that is.

  • JofreyRice

    I’m not sure you understand good NFL QB play, if you discount Flacco’s play and laud Vick’s.

    Good NFL QB play is consistently standing in the face of pressure and putting the ball on your receiver to make a play. He threw into tight windows because the coverage was good, but the combination of velocity, placement, and anticipation allowed the receivers to make those plays. None of Anquan, Torrey, Jacoby, or Dennis Pitta are in the top 10 of their relative positional rankings. You really think he’d be among the alltime greats if he was just chucking it up there game after game? No one is that lucky.

    Steady running attack? Ray Rice was getting heimliched on the sidelines, when he wasn’t getting tackled after 2 yards. They ran the ball 33 times for 93 yards in the superbowl, bud. 33 times for 120 yards (less than 3.5 YPC) in the AFCCG. That’s steady–steadily unproductive.

  • aub32

    You make me laugh. How am I biased? The guy didn’t set the world on fire. He won one game. Unlike many here I don’t value the unknown just for the sake that it’s unknown. He had plenty of flaws. Some he will most likely fix in time. Some will be with him his entire career. I don’t know which ones those are, so as of right now, before TC even begins, I am going based on what I have seen, and no he did not show me enough in those 7 games to be the starter of any NFL team, especially not mine. This is no bias. I am making this statement solely based on his play not some mystery projection that we all hope to be true.

  • aub32

    And that’s completely ok. There’s no football going on so this is just fun discussion. I honestly would like to debate someone who is unbiased and can point ofascination that is Foles beyond the rookie excuse and “O but he’s unknown”

  • Andy124

    And Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russle and so on and so forth.

  • illadelphia21

    Yeah but George was an absolute asshole who couldn’t command let alone gain the respect of his coaches and teammates!

  • aub32

    I never discounted Flacco. However, I don’t have him in my top 10. His arm gave him the ability to make plays many other QBs couldn’t have. The same could be said of Cutler. Yet only one of them have any hardware. Flacco made those thrhad a great run, but he is far from consistent and got a lot of help from the coaches and guys around him. I mentioned his arm is jest, but I hope this more detailed explanation clears things up.

  • illadelphia21

    Would love to draft bridgewater. That’s the qb I’m sold on over Vick, Foles, and Barkley.

  • illadelphia21

    Head case and extremely lazy!

  • aub32

    Quicker than he was and stronger than he was. There is no doubt that he will improve. The question is how much. Many are going gaga over the reports on Foles, especially with liite word on Vick. But what are they going to say. We all know what Vick is.oing to say he looks stronger or faster? No. The fascination is in the unknown and is many fans’ argument for Foles. We shall see and then reevealuate.

  • cliff henny

    one more yr, than back to the great northwest to wrestle bears, battle psycho hockey players and fight beer tyrants…all of my canadian knowledge comes from Strange Brew

  • southy

    Watkins has plenty of physical talent. If Stoutland can get the mental part of his game right he could bounce back. It would be nice.

  • Andy124

    The point is that a strong arm alone isn’t enough to make you succesfull. We hear all the time that Vick should play because of his strong arm. The counter examples prove conclusively that a strong arm alone makes not a good qb.

  • Andy124

    That was a great documentary on the Canadian culture.

  • JofreyRice

    It absolutely takes a team to win a Superbowl. That being said, it seems like your argument, and other arguments I’ve read, insinuate that Flacco was lobbing the ball up to receivers, who bailed him out of prayer throws. I just don’t see that as the case, and I think the consistency of his performance across the playoffs this year–and previous years–show that the guy is a big game player that helps his team greatly. Unlike Cutler, his mechanics stay consistent throughout the game, and he shows an ability to throw guys open and throw with anticipation.

    Flacco didn’t just start playing well in the playoffs this year. He’s outplayed Tom Brady in the championship game two years running.

  • theycallmerob

    Sorry, but I think you’re way off. Flacco is absolutely one of the better QBs in the NFL. You said it yourself- Flacco has the hardware. I’ll take him, his trophy, and 5 years of making the playoffs EVERY YEAR before I take some of these razzle dazzle kids.

  • cliff henny

    saw 1 game of his, that bowl game, he was a beast. but, he also dove head-first and took on lbrs, didnt like that much…seen enough of that. i love marioti, he ran kelly’s o like a machine. hope he has down year, maye we can steal him in 2nd.

  • theycallmerob

    well said.

  • aub32

    They were not prayers but the WRs did help him out. Hell, Eli won his first ring with a prayer throw. No shame in that. They still won and were both crown SB MVP (cough Justin Tuck; cough Jacoby Jones) Sorry I need a cough drop or something

  • aub32

    I never discouted him being a rookie. I said that can’t be an excuse for those who want to hold him to the standard of a starting QB. Rookie or no, you’re competing against the standard of excellence as elecuted by the coaching staff themselves. As far as Foles improving I have doubt he will. However, what I saw last year is far, really far from even what I saw of Vick in 2011 ( I won’t even begin to discuss 2010) I have a good idea of what Vick will look like with the team around him in good condition. I have no clue with Foles. So I will go with the guy who has proven something and look forward to seeing if Foles can change my mind. I just dount it at this point solely based on what I have seen. I get that Foles caught a raw deal but that’s football. I for one would rather not project what others here have base on the fact he did “ok for a rookie” if that’s all you want out of your starting QB, then fine.

  • aub32

    I think the 2013 Ravens may change your mind, but I am no psychic.

  • theycallmerob

    Well played sir, though I would say the same to you! Let’s reconvene on both topics, say in 6 months.

  • aub32

    I look forward to it

  • illadelphia21

    Yeah I know the head 1st thing. I think Teddy is smart enough to learn to not do that w/ the big boys around. Plus I’m tired of 2nd teir QB’s ready to assume the mantle…Garcia, Feely, Kolb, Kafka, and maybe Foles and Barkley (who knows at this point w/ those two). Give me the best and IMO as of now that’s Bridgewater for me. I thought Marioti was a running QB? Am I wrong? I kinda want a pocket QB that can run.

  • theycallmerob

    Not taking anything away from the receivers, but watch the following. It’s titled “This is what a Franchise QB looks like”

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000128946/AFC-Championship-Game-Joe-Flacco-highlights

  • JofreyRice

    Oh, baloney. Boldin turned in a good performance and helped his team, but nothing exceptional. For a guy that doesn’t generate separation with his route-running and speed, he did what he does–make contested catches and gain YAC. The guy had 100 yards in the Superbowl, and made one really impressive catch (the backshoulder fade that he leaped up to grab with Carlos Rogers’ hand in there). The TD was nothing spectacular. Flacco completing almost 80% of his passes against the blitz from a vicious 49ers defense is not an accident.

    Ozzie gave 20 below Joe a contract extension, and shipped Boldin to the 9ers for what, a 6th rounder? Something about that fact makes me feel confident in my argument.

  • G_WallyHunter

    “pulled a Coleman”

    let’s coin it

  • cliff henny

    not really at all. much more like bridgewater than a manziel, who’s more of a streetballer. marioti has wheels, but can function in pocket with big accurate arm, big kid, not sure but i’d bet 6’4 230 with wheels ta’boot. better passe than kaep, probably not the athlete. watch some oregon games, he’s very impressive

  • cliff henny

    My brother and I used to say that drownin’ in beer was like heaven, eh? Now he’s not here, and I’ve got two soakers… this isn’t heaven. This sucks!

  • illadelphia21

    Absolutely true. Yet if it came down to a strong arm v weak arm qb, minus the glaring personality inefficiencies of George, Leaf, and Russel. I’d take strong arm everyday. Just my opinion. Hate seeing a weak arm QB play who can’t get the ball down field. Makes an offense look pathetic from what I’ve seen in past games in the league. BTW, this statement is not a reflection on Vick or Foles.

  • JofreyRice

    Haha, my “God Foles”. I’m not even a Foles fan, you dope. You’re the one with the handle proclaiming the guy you want to QB the Eagles–not everyone operates on your level. I want the best player to win the competition, but am prepared for the most likely scenario none of the QBs on the roster are of franchise caliber.

    Of course they are going to miss throws, or take chances where they shouldn’t, but the pattern of low-understanding errors is worrying at a position that requires attention to detail and quick decision making to perform at an elite level. You asked why people thought Vick had a low football IQ, I answered with specific examples–examples not just of a bad play, but a poor fundamental understanding of the offense and his role in it.

  • Run Eagles Run

    except reids offense fit foles a lot better than it fit vick. foles is not a good qb, and I find your denial of that hilarious.

  • Dutch`

    Last year the Eagles played a progression passing scheme, Foles was sold as a pocket passing Quarterback. The issue was nobody bothered to read about his flaws in telegraphing passes, and the inability to read the field or make decisions and NFL necessary throws.

    Some of you obviously skipped the part about forcing throws, and benefiting from exceptional receiver play to bail him out when making erratic throws. Aside from those obvious flaws, the scheme calling for 50 passes down field a game was tailored made for Foles, of course with shorter routes, due to his inability to be accurate on deep throws.

    Vick was never and is not now a pocket Quarterback, and there’s nothing in his game to suggest he ever will be, in Eagles games over the last 3 year where Vick attempted less than 25 passes, his record is 15-7,

  • theycallmerob

    A little late to the party today, Marcus? Compared to Vick, Foles has upside in spades

  • theycallmerob

    Deny what? If you’ve concluded anything from last year’s team, you need to have your head examined. I’ve said the jury’s out all along. Try keeping up.

  • illadelphia21

    Cool. Thanks for your perspective and for dropping some knowledge on me. I’ll watch some old games online and watch this year and if I like him better than Teddy or if he’s comparable but can be had later in the draft, then I’ll jump ship. As it stands for now though, Teddy seems to be the choice pick.

  • eaglepete

    haha, that was awesome nick

  • JofreyRice

    He was the third stringer. Kafka was the 2nd stringer, who seemed to have killed his chances at the backup spot in the Steelers preaseason game when he threw a pick 6 to DLineman Steve McLendon. After that, Foles came in and threw two long bombs TDs to Mardy Gilyard and Damaris Johnson–essentially winning the backup spot from Kafka.

  • Run Eagles Run

    foles is nothing special. and yes, I could determine that from watching him last year.put money on it. foles is worse than kevin kolb.

  • theycallmerob

    Please, only those fans that read Bayless. Anyone with a brain cell who follows the Ravens for more than 2 weeks love the guy. And see, I can say things like that since I’ve been living here since the day Joe got drafted.
    If passing percentage is more important to you than game winning drives, calm under pressure, ball control, pocket awareness, situational awareness, playoff road victories, and a super bowl ring…..well, yea I guess I’d take Vick too.

  • JofreyRice

    Yeah, that Defense was awesome, giving up 22 points a game–31 in the Superbowl. Reminded me of the ’85 Bears. And that Oline–being together for so long, what was it, 4 whole games? Boy, it was like they were operating with one hive mind. Give me a break.

  • Run Eagles Run

    wow, yeah, I am marcus vick, nice original material there. I am sure no one who has had someting negative to say about nick foles anonymously has ever heard that hilarious joke before. Im starting to see why you think foles has more upside… youre a dolt.

  • Run Eagles Run

    notice how I didnt even mention vick, and this boob jumps to the conclusion that I am some kind of blind vick supporter…. and he claims he is unbiased and undecided…. haha they should call you a liar

  • GEagle

    hahahahahahahahahahahah!!! MARCUS!!!! Classic! That was awesome Rob

  • theycallmerob

    Ah, I forgot you were simply smarter than everyone else here. You speak with the assurance of a former GM, and a terrible eye for the game…is that you Matt Millen?

  • theycallmerob

    Got it…I didn’t realize until now you argue like a 2nd grader. You win.

  • cliff henny

    with the leader having phd in logical fallicies

  • illadelphia21

    Never said he wasn’t a franchise QB. I think he’s good and 1 step below elite. But boldin beasting in the playoffs, didn’t help or the Denver safety pulling a Coleman? Come on.

  • Run Eagles Run

    there is no argument. Im just stating fact here. foles will never be more than 2nd string. Im sorry you cant see that. it was pretty obvious last year.

  • Run Eagles Run

    no

  • Run Eagles Run

    “In the preseason, Kafka played in the second quarter in game one, but he
    broke his non-throwing hand. He was benched for the rest of the
    preseason, and finished with a quarterback rating of 23.1, with zero
    touchdowns and one interception. On August 29, the Eagles announced that
    Foles would be the backup quarterback, leaving Kafka and Edwards
    fighting for the team’s third string position. On August 31, Kafka was
    released during final roster cuts.” TRY AGAIN

  • Andy124

    “I never discouted him being a rookie. I said that can’t be an excuse ”
    Isn’t saying that it can’t be an excuse the same thing as discounting it?
    I promise you, coaches and most fans hold rookies to a lower standard than they hold veterans and are correct to do so.
    And if you don’t think “ok for a rookie” is good enough for a rookie, well, that’s your opinion.
    I have no idea what Foles will become, but the way he improved each week, that bullet he completed to Celek over the middle as he was getting absolutely drilled by a blitzing linebacker, the identification of a mistake he made (bailing out of the pocket vice moving up) followed by actually correcting that mistake in game situations, and “ok for a rookie” numbers under bad circumstances all make me want to see how much he can improve.

  • JofreyRice

    So he had 3 weeks of reps as the backup before being officially named the backup before the season started. Does that really sound like a full offseason to you? Kafka’s play factored into the decision, to think it didn’t is to willfully try and further an agenda at the cost of the truth.

  • illadelphia21

    Wouldn’t you take Foles since he had the better pass percentage…lol. Just playing round w/ you. I did like his comparable pass percentage point though. Nice counter w/ the winning drive point.

  • Andy124

    “foles will never be more than 2nd string”
    Seeing as Foles has already spent time as a 1st string qb, you’re claim is demonstrably false.

  • theycallmerob

    “Im just stating fact here. foles will never be more than 2nd string.”

    You’re not stating anything; you’re merely confusing misinformed opinion for fact. You’re right, ain’t no arguing a fool

  • JofreyRice

    Can you tell me any “facts” about what the lotto number will be tomorrow, o wise one?

  • Run Eagles Run

    I’m just saying its not like you said it was. Kafka wasnt playing after the first preseason game, so how exactly did his play factor into the decision? Im not saying kafka was good, he is awful. Thats why they drafted foles. kafka had zero arm strength. Im not really arguing what youre saying as much as Im saying it didnt happen like you said. foles got a lot of reps as the back up QB in training camp, or at least as much as trent edwards (the only other healthy back up).

  • Run Eagles Run

    you know who else has seen time at 1st sting before? koy detmer. Bobby Hoying. Bubby Brister. Are those guys not 2nd string?

  • Dutch

    He was one of two back ups and he got the call when the starting QB was knocked from the game with a concussion. It’s a bit of a stretch to consider that string of games Foles started anything more than mop up duty in the case of an injury to the starter.

  • Run Eagles Run

    Just because you are too blind to see the fact, doesnt mean its not fact. Dont worry, there’s only a few months left till you see the light.

  • Dutch

    Foles being a back up with work was his projections coming out of Arizona, and in his appearances in 2012 all he did was solidify that projection playing to the same results with 1 win and 5 losses that he played to at Arizona. Foles was a turnover machine in Arizona finishing with a 11 and 15 record his last two years there. How it’s assumed he’s coming into the NFL and by some miracle lead a team to winning is beyond all reason.

    All of the Quarterbacks Andy drafted, Foles included proved to be nothing more than capable backups in the NFL. Being a backup in the NFL is not such a bad job. Now with Barkley being on the roster, Foles is separated even more from that reality in 2013. Granted the evaluations have to continue when the pads go on, but it’s not even close looking at the body of work on Foles in comparison to Matt Barkley.

    Who of all the individuals with credibility who watches, analysis and report on college Football do not expect Matt Barkley to put space between Barkley and Foles in training camp and during the pre season games?

  • JofreyRice

    Foles performance in that game versus Kafka’s absolutely brought him out as a viable backup candidate. If you don’t think that’s true, then you haven’t been paying attention–Foles was a nobody. 3 weeks as “the backup” does not a full offseason make.

  • Run Eagles Run

    here is a fact: you were wrong about how the offseason played out last year. you need to sharpen up your memory bro! it was only a year ago. eat some pussy, its good brainfood.

  • JofreyRice

    Please continue to give me tips about sharpening my mental prowess, guy who doesn’t know the difference between a fact and a prediction, and can’t connect the dots between a lousy in-game performance and demotion on the depth chart.

  • Run Eagles Run

    I’ve see QB’s in flag football leagues that could beat out kafka. once again, Im not denying foles play didnt elevate his value. Im just saying it didnt happen like you said. foles had a lot more time then you’re making it out to be. his offseason was just as long as everyone else’s, I dont know what your point is. I was just pointing out you were wrong about him being relegated to the 3rd string the entire offseason. they obviously like him if they drafted him in the 3rd round. they obviously knew kafka was a turd.

  • JofreyRice

    backpedal, backpedal. backpedal, change subject.

  • Andy124

    Well, they sure as hell weren’t 2nd string when they were 1st string.

    Obviously, what you mean is that Foles will never be a starting caliber qb. However, that’s not what you said.

    If I want to hear someone overdramatize crap, speak in hyperbole and never say what they really mean I’ll go watch Lifetime or Warren Sapp.

  • JofreyRice

    He had 3 weeks of TC as “the backup”. How, in any way, is that a full offseason? And you can’t even admit that Foles won the job based on his superior play. I’m no Kafka fan either, but he’s on an NFL roster right now, not playing in a flag football league.

    I’m not even a Foles fan, but your argument is just totally absurd.

  • G_WallyHunter

    HAHAHAHA

  • illadelphia21

    Feel confident in whatever you want. Of course the Super Bowl winning QB who didn’t have a contract worthy of him before he won would get an extension and a hefty one at that. As far as Boldin being shipped, which you retardedly go to as some vindication of your stance. Dude is getting up there in age, making a hell of a lot of money, was in the final year of that deal, and the Ravens were gonna be looking to hold on to younger players while trying to get Flacco to a long term deal. It’s called a Cap casualty as you already know. That’s how we got Demecco. Had nothing to do w/ performance just his big ass contract #.

    And yeah he doesn’t spare ate just like Irvin never used to separate. And still just like Irvin he punishes CB’s and makes great plays. I wish we had a WR like that and you know you do too.

    I don’t know if your ‘he only had a good performance…’ Part was based on the Super Bowl and ignoring the rest of the post season just like you ignored my main point of ‘contention’ w/ your previous statement about the Flacco to Jones bomb versus Denver, but I’ll leave an article to help you out w/ that.

    And Iike I said before I’m not down on Flacco and know he’s good so I couldn’t care less about his ‘80% v the blitz completion stat’.
    touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1article/p2p-74327534

  • illadelphia21

    Hyper link fail!!! So if you have any interest in seeing how much Boldin did during the post season and how much of a difference he made, then just google Anquan Boldin postseason stats and it should the 3rd site down from the b-more sun.

  • JofreyRice

    whoops, sorry I found this link from the Sun where Ed Reed as quoted as saying that Joe Flacco will be the difference for the Ravens in a close game. I think it also mentions how he had something like an “historic” postseason run.

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-01-30/sports/bs-sp-ravens-flacco-historic-postseason-0131-20130130_1_joe-flacco-torrey-smith-ravens-safety

    No, I am sure that the Ravens knew that Anquan Boldin was the key to all their success in the postseason and the Superbowl, which is the reason they traded him.

  • GEagle

    silly…Foles already handles an NFL pocket, and NFL pressure better then Kolb…Kolb has tools, he just buckles under pressure. He gets rattled whenever he starts getting Touched. Foles already showed supperiority to Kolb in that Regard…just an ignorant uneducated statement…Vick is fast tho, so I guess thats what matters hahahahah

  • Run Eagles Run

    the hell are you talking about? Im not back peddling or changing the subject. just because you start a handfull of games doesnt mean you’re not a second stringer. ask kevin kolb. ask the detmers.

  • illadelphia21

    LMBO! Wow. So you would take Ed Reed’s biased opinion over Boldins factual production? And guess what…I agree w/ that as I’ve stated before that Flacco is good and has an amazing arm. I even said in an earlier comment that I think he is just 1 step below being an elite QB in the league. Difference between my comments and yours are you put everything on Flacco and negate his surrounding pieces if not flat out shitting on them. Maybe if you weren’t such a combatitive douche at this point in time, you could see that. But it happens to me to when arguing w/ others on multiple comments at the same time

  • Run Eagles Run

    dude, youre retarded. when they drafted foles, I believed he was better than kafka without ever seeing him throw a ball. All Im saying is you made it sound like all foles got in the offseason was 3rd string reps and playing time. All Im saying is THAT YOU ARE WRONG. YOU changed the subject into an argument about is foles beat out kafka. I have no idea what you are trying to get at, but you’re a dummy.

  • JofreyRice

    His postseason was good, not great. The numbers bear that out, and are generally along the lines of what he did in the regular season. The Colts game was really the eye-popper, as far as #’s go, and we all know that team was lucky to be there.

    See, we can talk about #’s and compare Joe Montana to Joe Flacco’s performance–and it stands up. But compare Boldin to Jerry Rice in Superbowl XXIII–not even the same universe, either by the numbers, or by analysis. Boldin had 6 catches for 104 yards and a gimme touchdown on dumbass Donte Whitner–contributed about a 3rd of the Ravens passing game output. Do you remember the play in the SB where the 9ers blitzed on 3rd and 7, Flacco scrambled out to his right, and fired a laser to Boldin on the right sideline? Anquan gets credit for that? smh.

  • JofreyRice

    I think you should work on your reading comprehension. I’ve said multiple times that Boldin was good but not great, to which you respond “LOOK, HE HAD A HUNDRED YARDS IN THE SUPERBOWL!! YOU’RE NOT GIVING HIM ALL THE CREDIT”.

  • JofreyRice

    you’re offering up examples that are completely unrelated, in an attempt to deflect the fact that Foles was a starter. You do realize he didn’t just fill in while Vick was injured, that Reid actually kept him as the starter until Foles got injured himself–even with Vick being healthy. WTH does Bubby Brister have to do with Koy Detmer or Nick Foles?

  • JofreyRice

    haha. No one cares what you “believed”, you have proven that you’re a biased dope that doesn’t even know the definition of a simple term like “fact”. He was the third stringer until he beat Kafka out. 3 weeks worth of reps in the preseason for a rookie does not equal a full offseason of preparation, dumb-dumb.

  • illadelphia21

    Yes I probably should wor on my reading comprehension more. Such as ” As far as the rest of the playoffs, and I say this as not being down on Flacco, Boldin was the man who bailed the entire B-More offense out with one amazing tough catch after another and just beat down cb’s on nearly every throw.” Keyword being…PLAYOFFS!!! I did go onto say that Boldin did it some more in the Super Bowl also. This is totally different from saying he dominated and took over the superbowl. Perhaps I should work on my writing comprehension also.
    More reading comprehension/writing comprehension that I need to work on…’I actually agree w/ Ed Reed’s biased opinion.’ Blah blah blah, I think Flacco’s a step below elite, blah blah blah.

    22 catches for 380 yards in the playoffs at 17.3 a pop. Raven’s single season playoff records in both reception and yards. Yards puts him at 7th in NFL history while catches put him at 6th. I’m going off of stats and what the O.C., Wr coach, and Flacco attested to themselves. His catches in the Super Bowl were freaking huge and cam at the right time, doing it the way only he can and no othe WR, on that offense could.

    Still you are correct. This does not diminish Falcco and his performance especially when you don’t throw picks in the post season. Yet it really does help when you have a WR like Boldin. Main point and reason why I gave you a thumbs down was you brought up the Denver play which was not to Falcco’s credit or even Jones’s but the Coleman-esque play of the safety and further to exemplify how huge Boldin was durin their playoff run. Both had historic postseasons.

  • illadelphia21

    Furthermore, I think it’s hilarious for someone to tell me that they think I need to work on my reading comprehension and then go on in the same comment to not misquote me, but rather fabricate a quote that I never wrote! I’m done!
    DROPS MIC!!!

  • GEagle

    ANYONE who even claims to know what Foles limitations are after seeing him play 6 games in the worst situation immaginable is an utter fool. sorry, Real talk!…Fans like you were the ones hoping on his nuts after a few preseason passes LMAO…stop sounding like a fool, close your mouth and wait til you have atleast enough intel to come close to being able to judge…wanna judge someone? judge the 33yr old with a decade of starting experience!!!!! Friggin, the mastermind Chip Kelly prolly doesnt Know what Foles can be at this point, yett he brilliant Run Eagles Run has it all figured out!
    ..
    Thanks, the camp battle should end today!

  • Dutch

    Foles wasn’t the starter he was a “REPLACEMENT” do to the Starter being concussed and un-cleared to return to duty for a month.

  • Dutch

    There were second string, even when starting in replace of the injured starter. But you’re correct in that Foles is never going to be a starting caliber qb in the NFL, that’s based on his work at Arizona and the six games he subbed in for Vick in 2012.

    He was consistent in 2012 for the Eagles in the exact same way he was for Arizona before that. Interceptions, fumbles, as Sheil pointed out in the above article, forcing balls down field, telegraphing his passes and problems with accuracy, arm strength and decision making. Those flaws were evident at Arizona and crystal clear in relief duty in 2012 for the Eagles.

  • knighn

    And that is where I am torn.

    If it is 2 years of what Vick did in 2010, Yes, Please! Even though the team, as a whole, WILL NOT be good enough to win a Super Bowl in the next two years, I would happily watch Vick and the Eagles win as many games as they can. I HATE watching the Eagles lose, especially to division rivals. But the problem with this: in another two years of Vick as the starter, the Eagles will still be without a Super Bowl and will also be without a franchise QB. At some point the Eagles have to start finding and developing that guy. Vick, as a small, highly mobile and injury-prone QB is really near his expiration date.

    If another two years of Vick will look a lot like the last two years of Vick: No Thanks! And that’s the thing – I seriously think Vick is already on the decline. Certain guys hit that point earlier than others. Not every QB will last as long as Elway, Moon or Favre. Sometimes it is because their skill has dropped off. Sometimes these guys just lose their edge! And if this is the case, I’ll take Foles or Barkley

  • Dutch

    So were the other rookies Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin and Wilson……… why is it in all of those rookies only Foles has the sad story and excuse? Luck had a miserable offensive line and that didn’t stop him, he also threw a ton of interceptions and through it all won enough games to boost his team into the playoffs and out of the grave.

    You aren’t considering Foles results with the Eagles mirrored his results at Arizona with turnovers and the inability to win.

  • Dutch

    Typically the posters here in support of Foles, chooses to ignore all things he could have controlled, like turnovers. Foles had not just started turning over the ball with the Eagles, his college history is painted with the same stats, wretched mechanics, telegraphing passes, and forcing the ball while making questionable decisions from the pocket resulting in interceptions and a less than steller win/loss record.

    Foles showed no worse with the Eagles, despite the injuries to other players than he had at Arizona.

    Google his college scouting report and the very flaws you witnessed watching Foles with the Eagles, you will find littered all through his scouting report. He wasn’t ready, Andy should not have exposed the kid to such punishment and because he did the kid may never recover to develop into much better than Kevin Kolb.

  • Dutch

    Franchise QB aren’t developed, they are found in the draft. Over the last 12 years, QBs coming into the NFL either have it or they don’t. There’s no gray area. The Guy either has the attributes and compete and you put the pieces around him, or you continue to hope and wish to find the QB of your desire.

    In the Case of Foles, he came from a losing college team, it’s bizarre to expect he’s a franchise QB when he couldn’t prove and produce it at the college level despite having the receiver talent on that arizona team.

  • knighn

    Fine. I do not care if Foles is the QB of the future. I do not care if Barkley is the QB of the future. The one thing we should all agree on is that Vick is not. He’s done in two years and the team won’t be ready to win a Super Bowl by then.

    Play Foles, Play Barkley, Play Dixon, Play GJ Kinne, I do not care. Figure out if any of these guys have any potential, even as a backup. If they don’t find their franchise QB on the team, draft Teddy Bridgewater or Marcus Mariota or whoever the flavor of the day will be when the Eagles can draft their franchise QB. Vick is not the future of the Eagles anymore than McNabb is. I see this now. You’ll see it very, very soon. Time to move on.

  • Dutch

    Why should we all agree on Vick? Vick is the only solid chance to win now until the Franchise is ready to take over. Given the asinine offensive scheme Andy Reid devised for Vick it’s ridiculous to assume he’s not a quality fit for the Kelly Option, that which got him hired.

    Playing Foles is not giving paying Fans their money worth, and pretty much guarantees failure and a non-competitive team in the Eastern Division. No, Thank you.

    The only chance the Eagles have to challenge eastern division opponents is to start Vick and relieve him with Barkley. Foles is not a NFL Quarterback and serious football fans wouldn’t even consider using him have watching him last year under pressure lob the ball to opposing defenses and lay the ball on the ground when touched in the pocket.

  • dutch

    Hell Foles was 11-17 at Arizona his last two years. It’s not the fan base that support exchanging Vick with Foles, it’s a loud few as always.

    Eagles fans are in no way willing to surrender with Foles at the helm. We’ve not been to the playoffs in two years, time is running short. Foles hasn’t shown anything with the Eagles, or at Arizona that suggest he has the answer to return the Eagles to the playoffs and respectability.

    Those who support Foles haven’t seen one thing in his ability in 2012 that inspires confidence, they will come here and claim some mystical potential that frankly Foles at this time does not possess.

    One guy in the “I Hate Vick Fraternity” said on this site, he would rather see the Eagles lose 13 game with Foles than watch Vick take the Eagles to the playoffs. That’s on a level that I definitely can’t identify with.

  • knighn

    Vick is a solid chance, at this point in his career? What in the last two years makes you believe that? His performance last year, which was just as bad as the third round rookie that you disparage so much?

    Vick is done. If he manages to somehow win the starting job he won’t keep it. Time to move on. You think fans want to watch an old QB who will play as a shadow of what he once was? Great! Let’s bring back McNabb! Or Randall, who is much more popular with the fans right now. Watching Vick play at this point would be a waste of my money AND my time!

    With or without a Franchise QB the Eagles aren’t challenging Jack S this year. Time to figure out what the other QBs might be once the Eagles are actually ready to challenge, whether those guys are franchise QBs, viable backups or nothing at all. Time for Kelly to put his tea bags in hot water and see what he’s got.

  • Dutch

    Baltimore without Boldin going up making incredible catches doesn’t come close to being a Super Bowl Champion. Flacco has a cannon of an arm and receivers who can go and get the ball in space. Boldin and Pita are the only two receivers along with Rice who are going to catch the ball in traffic. Teams have to respect Rice rushing and receiving and thus opens space for Pita, and Boldin to operated in the middle of the field, but Boldin can elevate and snatch balls out of the air in difficult situations, so Flacco is comfortable with giving Boldin a chance to make a play on the ball, Jones and Smith aren’t possession receivers, they are long ball specialist and all Flacco has to do is throw the ball up and they will run under the ball and track it down if allowed off the line of scrimmage unchecked. How many times did both repeat that scenario in the playoffs this year?

    Flacco is not a small ball QB. Up until this year he’s been closely managed. The task for the upcoming year is for Flacco to show he can duplicate what he accomplished this year without Boldin to bail him out. He’s going to need another Boldin type receiver.

  • Dutch

    it’s simple, the offensive scheme that forced Vick to sit in the pocket and wait on down field routes to develop.

    Horrible scheme to put Vick in given his unique skill set. Keeping Vick in the pocket does half the work for the opposing defense.

    Funny how this year Andy Reid with Alex Smith has seen the light and is adopting the concepts of the Option in Kansas City. That’s a scheme he should have tried with Vick in 2011 and 2012.

  • Dutch

    the NFL as I’m sure Kelly knows with Foles the Eagles don’t have a starting caliber QB,….. That was

    clearly the lesson from 2012. It’s really no reason to go down that path and throw up the white flag of surrender.

    Foles may have looked as if he has potential in the spring in shorts and a T Shirt, come pad popping time, he returns to the Arizona quarterback that Eagles fans saw in relief of Vick in 2012. Even in a passing intensive offensive scheme he wasn’t convincing as a pocket passing QB ready to play in the NFL.

    Fans in Philly know he’s not ready, it’s just a few of you who are in denial about Foles inability to play in the league.Floes is at the least 2 to 3 years away provided he has the proper coaching and I’m not sure Kelly is the coach to bring out NFL talent based on his not having sent a qb into the NFL who has played any significant minutes anywhere.

  • knighn

    Reid is going to get Smith killed. Smith at his peak is not what Vick was at his peak. Reid has been one step behind for a number of years now.

    I digress. Vick, so far, is even or below Foles in Chip Kelly’s offense. You think, if Vick was doing so much better than Foles that he would need Kelly’s reassurance? It would be clear. It’s not. Once again, time to move on. You’ll get there. Though you’ll probably blame someone other than Vick when he’s not the starter.

  • knighn

    Let’s keep the comparison clear, OK? We’re comparing Foles and Vick as they both played on the same team. Look at everything last year. The Eagles defense was factually better with Juan Castillo at DC. The injuries also mounted as the season went on. Foles in his six games was 1-5. Vick in his last six was 0-6. Outside of this, their numbers are nearly identical. If the third round rookie QB can’t play in the NFL, Vick is also done!

    Hilarious: you think that Kelly can turn Vick back into an NFL QB but you don’t think he can develop a young guy? Irony much?

    Once again: this is NOT about Foles. Vick is done. You drive that point home every time you tell everyone how bad Foles looked (as bad as Vick). Show me someone other than Vick… ANYONE other Vick. Vick, once again, is done.

  • knighn

    If 2012 was a lesson in that Foles is Not a “starting caliber QB” then it was also a lesson that Vick is no longer a “starting caliber QB”. Once again: I’m NOT claiming that Foles will EVER be a viable starting QB. I am stating that Vick no longer is! If you’re going to continue to use last year’s performance to attempt to discredit Foles, it serves as even a greater indictment for Vick (who as the 12-year vet, should have played better than Foles). You’re watching the end of the show. It’s just a little shorter than you thought it would be. Vick is done.

  • theycallmerob

    I swear, sometimes I think I’m watching a different sport or something. How is it always “all-or-nothing” with so many people these days?

  • nicksaenz1

    Not to mention “run” can’t differentiate between calling someone the next so-n-so and noting a minor similarity that more than likely means nothing.

  • G_WallyHunter

    Should have shined with a “replacements” Oline? Andy may have called plays designed to allow Foles to shine, but the state of the team and the state of the Oline ensured that he wouldn’t have, and Andy should have known this and adjusted accordingly.
    To your second point, Andy should have kept Vick in the 30-35 range, but he would be constantly making him throw 40-50 a game, which is playcalling too. As I said, most of the defenses can be used for both players. Playcalling was an issue last year regardless of who was under center.

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    the kids a 3rd round rookie. give it a rest. he played well. worry about your boy vick who after 12 years still cant figure out how to hold the ball. and NOT give it to the other team

  • Brent E. Sulecki

    great be a father judge fan then and stay off Eagles blogs. what did MV do against one of the worst defenses in NFL history in the saints. Just be lucky little one that Nick didn’t start that game, or else you would have 0 argument.

  • GEagle

    So, you think Vick MAGICALLY used his wolverine like regenerating health powers to get healthy of his concussion the MOMENT Foles broke his hand? hahahahahahahah……..Make no mistake about it, had Foles not gotten Hurt, Vick NEVER smells the field again in 2012!!!!.
    ..
    Does sounding stupid come easy to you, or did you have to really work at it?

  • JofreyRice

    Here are a few links that might help dispel your ignorance:

    http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2012/12/3/3722774/michael-vick-benched-nick-foles-named-starter

    “Andy Reid made that official today when he named Nick Foles the starting quarterback for the rest of the season, regardless of whether or not Vick passes his concussion tests and can return to the field.”

    http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2012/12/michael_vick_benched_nick_fole.html

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dneagles/Vick-I-Have-to-Roll-with-Punches.html

    “Vick said he would embrace the opportunity to help rookie Nick Foles, designated the starter the rest of the way for the 4-10 Eagles by head coach Andy Reid. “That’s just the way things are right now,” he said, when asked about not being the starter, perhaps ever again here. “I have to roll with the punches and deal with it, make the most of it, continue to work hard, try to get better, continue to help Nick out, continue to help (backup Trent Edwards), continue to help this football team, do my job as a leader … regardless if I’m the starter or the third-string quarterback.”

  • GEagle

    Its ridiculous how the same few idiots day in and day out, bring down the quality of our debates…How the hell do people even try and judge Foles after last season? people think Im driving the Foles warwagon, but thats really not the case. I understand that last year was not indicative of who he can becvome as a QB, and I simply want to see him play so we can find out…..What kind of DOPE watches a rookie play 6 games with a dumb coach, and practice squad players and even tries to judge him? lol

    I cant wait til we NEVER have to talk about this silly stupid WR playing QB aka Vick, ever again…At some point, within the next 3 years TOPS, Vick will be gone…then I finally dont have to see DOPES blindly root for a few Madden Video game highlight plays…Cant wait til its Foles, Barkley and Dixon and we are actually committed to developing our two young QBs….or at the very least use the year to rule them out and KNOW that you need to draft a QB in round 1 next year

  • Dutch

    You can have your choice of last year with the eagles or the prior two years at Arizona, the best you can get out of Foles is what you saw last year. His play has been consistent and the results steady. Ideally, Vick starts to give the Eagles a chance to win, and eventually by mid season Matt Barkley becomes the face and future of the Eagles.

    We saw what Foles has to offer. It’s a fantasy to believe in developing Quarterbacks. As an Eagle fan you’ve never seen a Quarterback develop, because it doesn’t happen. And Andy Reid, like Foles selected a wealth of Quarterbacks in the draft who have come into the league and developed into nothing more than capable backups. How based on the appearance of Foles in 2012 can you say he’s some stand out… ?

    When it’s all said and done Foles is no different than Kolb and Kafka or any number of failed experiments before him. The same press pushing Foles touted Kolb as the heir apparent to McNabb. If we are in deed looking for a new beginning, it’s Matt Barkley or nothing.

  • http://www.philthycanuck.com/ Adam

    but but,, what Nick Foles did in Arizona.. but but… weight in salt..

  • knighn

    So, QBs never develop. They never improve? Really? Donovan McNabb never played better than his 1st or 2nd year in the league? That is just fascinating. Andrew Luck will never play better than he did last year? Man, those Colts are going to be very disappointed. You’re either deluded or you’re just trolling now.

    Once again: re-read me. I’ve never said that Foles will EVER be a starting caliber QB in the NFL. I’ve stated repeatedly that Vick played at the same level as Foles (which was pretty damn bad), and was nearly as bad the year before, therefore Vick is DONE! I’m not touting Foles as Jack S***. I’m touting Vick as DONE!

    We don’t even know, right now, if Foles is even a capable backup. Let’s find out, or let’s find out if he’s as completely useless as Vick is at this point in his career. I don’t care who the future QB will be. It’s NOT Vick. Play Foles, don’t play Foles. Play Barkley or don’t play Barkley. Hell, play GJ Kinne. The most important thing here is that the Eagles don’t waste any more time on someone that is already done. “Matt Barkley or nothing” is better than “Mike Vick equals ALREADY DONE!!” Let’s find if Matt has any chance of being a starter prior the the 2014 NFL draft. If not, it’s back to the drawing board and the Eagles can draft Teddy Bridgewater or Marcus Mariota or whoever the hell the QB-Of-The-Week will be in the 2014 draft.